Thanks for sending me the beer Steve!!! It was a lot of fun! Your research and brewing process showed in this great example of a NA beer!!! And I’ll definitely be sending you something soon 😂 Cheers 🍻
Have you considered, after pulling the grains, adding in some more base malt to get your percentages roughly more in line with a regular stout, and then doing a mash with the leftover grains? Since most of those sugars didn't get converted because there was no enzymatic activity, I would think that you might get a full beer out of the technically spent grain
That is absolutely a viable option! You could certainly still get something out of them, although I'm not sure the flavor and color contributions would still be 1:1 with a fresh grist of the same malts
Some yeasts seem to be really clean throughout the process, US05 is one, I've also found Nottingham is great for arrested ferm. It's funny how people seem to want to produce the very low end of a table beer (fermenting just a few SG) without just having a table beer around and calling it as such. I've found it's really nice to either have a keg of Kombucha or a low ABV beer on all the time, say between 1.3-1.8%. It's easy and cheap to do this just by going partigyle. Realistically these will not give you a buzz unless you straight up chug a couple, and it's a great way to still enjoy homebrew while being more health-conscious. My favorite recipe is a roughly 1.022 OG mashed very hot (almost denaturing a-amylase), with ample flaked wheat and oats (about 30-40%) and pale malt, and about 6-10 IBUs of your favorite noble hops late in the boil. Ferment with the non-dastaticus Farmhouse yeast, and some Brett like Orval. Give it 3-4 months and it makes a quenching yet complex beer. Serve it with really high carbonation so it's properly spritzy. Bonus if you dry hop it around serving time wth something that complements the Brett, like Galaxy or Cascade.
Table beers are seriously underrated! I totally agree, very health conscious but still flavorful. I want a huge fan of the hot mash method results but maybe that was just my particular experience with it.
A lot of those flavour descriptions put me in mind of my last attempt to make a Dry Irish Stout, in which I used a capped mash (as advocated by Gordon Strong, et al). For me, there wasn’t enough extraction from the dark grain. Easily solved for me I think. Next time I’ll just add the roasted grain earlier in the process. In the situation of your NA Stout, I suppose you can try adding more dark grain in the long cold steep, but I think you could hot steep those dark grains separately without needing to worry about extracting significant fermentable sugar.
I was so stoked to see this video this morning! I've been loving Guinness 0, but it is so dang expensive! Been wanting to make a similar NA beer to have on tap. Maybe I missed it, but did you check the PH at the end of the boil before going into the fermenter and adjust accordingly? Was the amount of acidulated malt you added enough to drop it to the
Neat! Might have a go at this, and perhaps experiment with the leftover grains. Ought to be some stuff left for full strength beer left. Should probably use two bags for different mash times on base vs roasted malts, considering the amounts of the latter.
Thank you for Sharing. ! Great job ! Brewing a good tasting NA Amarican / pilsner or lite Lager would be a Majior Accomplishment ! Somewhat of a dream of mine. Keep on keepin on Brian ! 🍻
An interesting one is Mash Gang's Stoop, where they add maltodextrin for body and Szechuan pepper to simulate the feel of the beer being alcoholic. frankly tasted like a 4% lager.
That looks great! It looks like you really knocked that one out of the park especially considering it's non-alcoholic. I will try making a non-alcoholic for my next brew.
This channel is amazing always do the best for all subscribes , non alcoholic beer is something i try to make before y very hard make , thank bro for this videos
I got myself lallemand LoNa and live with the burden of bottling and pasteurizing the beer. The yeast is amazing. I found that you have to relearn a bit of the brewing.l because you can use the lower temperature to convert the starches to maltose instead of dextrines, giving the beer more body.
How do you convert the starches that way? I would guess your process isn't the overnight cold mash that was done here and rather you mashed at a particular low temp range?
@@WarfareJournal the consensus for low ABV beer is to mash extremely high. between 78-80°C. So mashing lower is converting more starches. Also cold extracting will convert the starches as well. Much slower and what do you think happens when you raise the temperature? You have a couple of minutes at the optimal temperature for the enzymes
It is much tougher to do this with bottles! I would recommend choosing a different yeast or stabilizing with sorbate before bottling. If you are bottle conditioning and carbonating, you're also adding about 0.5% ABV to the beer as well.
That looks great. I visited England during dry January and there were loads of great options. I tried guinness af and was blown away. Shame I can't get it in Germany. Stouts and porters are a great base for af. I have a coffee porter af, very nice.
The pros have the advantage of brewing the same beer and using vacuum boiling or reverse osmosis to separate out the alcohol, that's why their AF beers taste the same!
Still I might copy your recipe and add some coffee. My new favourite home brew is a dark mild with 4%. I'm gravitating towards lower ABV beers at the moment. So much too try
I'm brewing this in my Anvil right now and it smells delicious! I noticed the PH is about 4.9 during the boil, should I expect the PH to lower during fermentation or do I need to add some additional salts/etc. to drop the PH before fermenting? (I'll go and check the Palmer book as well.) Update: It ended at 1.2 OG and a 5.2 PH and tasted very mineral like. I didn't use RO water so I'm going to retry this tomorrow with RO and not squeeze the grain bag this time.
In a normal fermentation, we leave the yeast to finish up or clean up after itself (diacetyl, acetaldehide, etc) In this process, by arresting fermentation before the yeast is done, what do you think is the risk of having those flaws in the final beer?
This is usually the case for me as well, but I've only experienced the sulfur dioxide off flavor so far. I think it has more to do with the yeast not doing as much fermentation and therefore less off flavors like acetaldehyde etc. They probably are there but remain below the flavor threshold
I still haven’t had a NA beer I like more than hop water, but would love to find one so thanks for your efforts. How about using maltodextrin for body/FG boost. Seems like a no brainer to me.
Thank you for doing this, it's a really interesting topic! I have been told (never tested) that you can make a non alcoholic lager by using the spent grains from a standard larger, any thoughts on if this was just a joke or would be plain awful?
I just ordered the claw hammer 120 v system. I’m off to get teflon tape and a digital thermometer for the system now. The thermometer is because I don’t think it tells you the temp the system is at. Call hammer wanted a few systems. I can’t find an extensive how to video on or extensive how to install parts video on
@@TheApartmentBrewer I don’t see where it tells you what the current temp is. Tho you and others did good videos no one has done an in depth video on how to work the system
I'm referring to carbonating the keg, then venting out the pressure with the prv, then letting some of that carbonation dissolve out of the beer and into the headspace over several hours. Then you vent it again. A few days of this and you can scrub out the Sulfur dioxide
In terms of the mouthfeel, I had heard that adding small amounts of food grade vegetable glycerin can help. Has anyone heard of this and done it? Does it affect the flavor?
Technically yes, I would encourage canning or kegging over bottling these beers, unless you want to pasteurize the bottles in a hot water bath or use metabisulfite to stabilize the yeast
For commercial breweries, yes, and typically with a vacuum boiler. Boiling the alcohol out with heat is going to oxidize the hell out of your beer, not to mention be really bad for the shelf life
Non-alcoholic beer should be: light and dry / alcohol no more than 0.5 / sodium and bicarbonate no more than 10 ppm / fermented and free of preservatives
Did you ever do a "low carb" beer? I know that's crazy, but I'm on a low carb diet, but still want my alcohol and beer flavor. I guess I could just add vodka to something. LOL
Buy some beta amylase and over attenuate. 7,5°P beer. 60% American 2-row 40% rice (precooked) Add Thermostable beta amylase during the mash. Continue as normal. If you add a sprinkle of Willamette and cascade, you ll have bud light ;) You could add more beta amylase in the fermenter to really dry out the beer
It's a good idea, most of the calories in beer come from the alcohol though so low carb isn't going to be all that much healthier. The only "real" carbs in beer come from that residual sugar, so as outlined below the lower the FG the better.
Thanks for sending me the beer Steve!!! It was a lot of fun! Your research and brewing process showed in this great example of a NA beer!!! And I’ll definitely be sending you something soon 😂 Cheers 🍻
Thanks for spoiling the surprise guest ;-)
Thanks Brian for coming on and tasting the beer! Really enjoyed your feedback!
Have you considered, after pulling the grains, adding in some more base malt to get your percentages roughly more in line with a regular stout, and then doing a mash with the leftover grains? Since most of those sugars didn't get converted because there was no enzymatic activity, I would think that you might get a full beer out of the technically spent grain
That is absolutely a viable option! You could certainly still get something out of them, although I'm not sure the flavor and color contributions would still be 1:1 with a fresh grist of the same malts
Some yeasts seem to be really clean throughout the process, US05 is one, I've also found Nottingham is great for arrested ferm. It's funny how people seem to want to produce the very low end of a table beer (fermenting just a few SG) without just having a table beer around and calling it as such. I've found it's really nice to either have a keg of Kombucha or a low ABV beer on all the time, say between 1.3-1.8%. It's easy and cheap to do this just by going partigyle. Realistically these will not give you a buzz unless you straight up chug a couple, and it's a great way to still enjoy homebrew while being more health-conscious.
My favorite recipe is a roughly 1.022 OG mashed very hot (almost denaturing a-amylase), with ample flaked wheat and oats (about 30-40%) and pale malt, and about 6-10 IBUs of your favorite noble hops late in the boil. Ferment with the non-dastaticus Farmhouse yeast, and some Brett like Orval. Give it 3-4 months and it makes a quenching yet complex beer. Serve it with really high carbonation so it's properly spritzy. Bonus if you dry hop it around serving time wth something that complements the Brett, like Galaxy or Cascade.
Table beers are seriously underrated! I totally agree, very health conscious but still flavorful. I want a huge fan of the hot mash method results but maybe that was just my particular experience with it.
A lot of those flavour descriptions put me in mind of my last attempt to make a Dry Irish Stout, in which I used a capped mash (as advocated by Gordon Strong, et al).
For me, there wasn’t enough extraction from the dark grain.
Easily solved for me I think. Next time I’ll just add the roasted grain earlier in the process.
In the situation of your NA Stout, I suppose you can try adding more dark grain in the long cold steep, but I think you could hot steep those dark grains separately without needing to worry about extracting significant fermentable sugar.
That's a great point!
I was so stoked to see this video this morning! I've been loving Guinness 0, but it is so dang expensive! Been wanting to make a similar NA beer to have on tap.
Maybe I missed it, but did you check the PH at the end of the boil before going into the fermenter and adjust accordingly? Was the amount of acidulated malt you added enough to drop it to the
I didn't do any pH check for the brew because I knew the acidulated malt would be enough. Post fermentation pH is like 3.8. Brian's an awesome guy!
Love the guest appearance. Two of my favorite homebrew channels coming together
Brian is a great guy and I'm glad we could collab!
Neat! Might have a go at this, and perhaps experiment with the leftover grains. Ought to be some stuff left for full strength beer left. Should probably use two bags for different mash times on base vs roasted malts, considering the amounts of the latter.
Definitely still have starches left over for conversion so it is a possibility!
This is what I will brew in next January. Thanks 👏
Thank you for Sharing. ! Great job ! Brewing a good tasting NA Amarican / pilsner or lite Lager would be a Majior Accomplishment ! Somewhat of a dream of mine. Keep on keepin on Brian ! 🍻
I'll try it out next time!
@TheApartmentBrewer looking Forward !
An interesting one is Mash Gang's Stoop, where they add maltodextrin for body and Szechuan pepper to simulate the feel of the beer being alcoholic. frankly tasted like a 4% lager.
Wow, that pepper addition is an interesting one!
These are great for the hot summer days! May brew one for the weekday afternoons! Cheers
Shameless day drinking is one of the best parts haha
@@TheApartmentBrewer hahaha it's 5 o'clock somewhere 😂
That looks great! It looks like you really knocked that one out of the park especially considering it's non-alcoholic. I will try making a non-alcoholic for my next brew.
Its difficult but really worth it if you get it right!
Brian! What a surprise!
Great guy!
NICE!!!!
Pretty cool man
😎👍🏻👍🏻🍺🍺🍺
This channel is amazing always do the best for all subscribes , non alcoholic beer is something i try to make before y very hard make , thank bro for this videos
I'm glad you enjoy it so much!
I'd be interested in the nitrogen angle.
Did you adjust the pH to below 3.9 post-fermentation? Cheers!
Sorry, I know this is a beer video but…..New wide angle lens at 15:08?? That shot looks crispy as hell
Yeah! I'm running a 20mm f/1.8 now for wide shots and I am very happy with it. Glad you like the change!
Would putting it on handpull help with the body and mouthfeel?
Mouthfeel is everything.
I got myself lallemand LoNa and live with the burden of bottling and pasteurizing the beer. The yeast is amazing.
I found that you have to relearn a bit of the brewing.l because you can use the lower temperature to convert the starches to maltose instead of dextrines, giving the beer more body.
How do you convert the starches that way? I would guess your process isn't the overnight cold mash that was done here and rather you mashed at a particular low temp range?
"normal" mashing between 70 and 72°C@@WarfareJournal
@@WarfareJournal since i am a actual brewer i tend to do things that could benefit future endeavors as well. No brewery will do an overnight mash.
@@WarfareJournal the consensus for low ABV beer is to mash extremely high. between 78-80°C. So mashing lower is converting more starches. Also cold extracting will convert the starches as well. Much slower and what do you think happens when you raise the temperature? You have a couple of minutes at the optimal temperature for the enzymes
Makes sense from the commercial perspective that you would avoid a cold mash. NA brewing is a totally different animal!
Awesome video! Do you think this could apply for bottlers? Might be to try to use priming sugar? Maybe this will compel me to start kegging, haha🍺🍻
It is much tougher to do this with bottles! I would recommend choosing a different yeast or stabilizing with sorbate before bottling. If you are bottle conditioning and carbonating, you're also adding about 0.5% ABV to the beer as well.
@@TheApartmentBrewer Thank you!
That looks great. I visited England during dry January and there were loads of great options. I tried guinness af and was blown away. Shame I can't get it in Germany. Stouts and porters are a great base for af. I have a coffee porter af, very nice.
The pros have the advantage of brewing the same beer and using vacuum boiling or reverse osmosis to separate out the alcohol, that's why their AF beers taste the same!
Still I might copy your recipe and add some coffee. My new favourite home brew is a dark mild with 4%. I'm gravitating towards lower ABV beers at the moment. So much too try
I'm brewing this in my Anvil right now and it smells delicious! I noticed the PH is about 4.9 during the boil, should I expect the PH to lower during fermentation or do I need to add some additional salts/etc. to drop the PH before fermenting? (I'll go and check the Palmer book as well.) Update: It ended at 1.2 OG and a 5.2 PH and tasted very mineral like. I didn't use RO water so I'm going to retry this tomorrow with RO and not squeeze the grain bag this time.
Sounds like the water probably had an impact there. Let us know what happens when you rebrew it!
Have you had sun king NA beers Steve?
Nope but I will keep an eye out!
In a normal fermentation, we leave the yeast to finish up or clean up after itself (diacetyl, acetaldehide, etc) In this process, by arresting fermentation before the yeast is done, what do you think is the risk of having those flaws in the final beer?
This is usually the case for me as well, but I've only experienced the sulfur dioxide off flavor so far. I think it has more to do with the yeast not doing as much fermentation and therefore less off flavors like acetaldehyde etc. They probably are there but remain below the flavor threshold
I still haven’t had a NA beer I like more than hop water, but would love to find one so thanks for your efforts.
How about using maltodextrin for body/FG boost. Seems like a no brainer to me.
I keep forgetting about maltodextrin since I never use it in regular beers but its a great idea
Thank you for doing this, it's a really interesting topic! I have been told (never tested) that you can make a non alcoholic lager by using the spent grains from a standard larger, any thoughts on if this was just a joke or would be plain awful?
You can do that but the Partigyle method is very thin tasting and feeling
At the risk of sounding blasphemous, have you considered adding maltodextrin to the boil to bump up the SG and body?
Yeah, I keep forgetting
I just ordered the claw hammer 120 v system. I’m off to get teflon tape and a digital thermometer for the system now. The thermometer is because I don’t think it tells you the temp the system is at. Call hammer wanted a few systems. I can’t find an extensive how to video on or extensive how to install parts video on
I've never had incorrect temperature readings on the clawhammer controller, but a second thermometer is never a bad thing
@@TheApartmentBrewer I don’t see where it tells you what the current temp is. Tho you and others did good videos no one has done an in depth video on how to work the system
It does, on the controller screen itself. Clawhammer Supply has a youtube channel with videos on how to assemble everything
Interesting approach. What is the difference to do a standard mash with very small grain bill to get to the same OG?
That difference would be huge - you'd be looking at a much lighter, more watery beer with very little flavor
What do you mean by off gasing? I've heard this a lot but not sure what that looks like practically?
I'm referring to carbonating the keg, then venting out the pressure with the prv, then letting some of that carbonation dissolve out of the beer and into the headspace over several hours. Then you vent it again. A few days of this and you can scrub out the Sulfur dioxide
Any idea kcals on this beauty?
Brewfather has this at 49 kcal
In terms of the mouthfeel, I had heard that adding small amounts of food grade vegetable glycerin can help. Has anyone heard of this and done it? Does it affect the flavor?
I have also heard this, but have yet to try it
why? Lager is the only thing I have to look forward to, at the end of the day.
While I look forward to a beer as well, many people want an option without the alcohol
nitro might help the mouthfeel a bit.
If arresting fermentation are you still at risk of bottle bombs if bottling?
Technically yes, I would encourage canning or kegging over bottling these beers, unless you want to pasteurize the bottles in a hot water bath or use metabisulfite to stabilize the yeast
Isn’t the normal process for this, making the beer, then cooking off the alcohol after fermentation?
For commercial breweries, yes, and typically with a vacuum boiler. Boiling the alcohol out with heat is going to oxidize the hell out of your beer, not to mention be really bad for the shelf life
This is true. It technically doesn’t need to boil, so maybe replicating it with a steam condenser or pressure cooker?
how much different is the grain bill from your normal stout?
Quite a bit, besides more grain overall, usually I'll have a much higher % base malt and munich, and less (
Non-alcoholic beer should be: light and dry / alcohol no more than 0.5 / sodium and bicarbonate no more than 10 ppm / fermented and free of preservatives
Did you ever do a "low carb" beer? I know that's crazy, but I'm on a low carb diet, but still want my alcohol and beer flavor. I guess I could just add vodka to something. LOL
Buy some beta amylase and over attenuate.
7,5°P beer.
60% American 2-row
40% rice (precooked)
Add Thermostable beta amylase during the mash.
Continue as normal.
If you add a sprinkle of Willamette and cascade, you ll have bud light ;)
You could add more beta amylase in the fermenter to really dry out the beer
It's a good idea, most of the calories in beer come from the alcohol though so low carb isn't going to be all that much healthier. The only "real" carbs in beer come from that residual sugar, so as outlined below the lower the FG the better.
Can your Try making KVAS ?
Can you send me non alcoholic Yeast?
Thanks 🙏