I m a psychologist and started exploring Jordan Peterson because a friend close friend passed a very disparaging remark about JP and when I asked if she had listened to his podcasts she hadn't. She sent me a comment by another prominent psychologist as corroboration. I suspected the comment was based on information taken out of context and started listening to JP. I soon discovered someone whom I think of as an "old soul in a suit". I then explored his family and discovered warm, thoughtful, open, real and caring people who wanted the best for others. Through Mikhaila's podcasts I have discovered a rich and constructive world of incredible people and ideas. JP also has very thought provoking interviews since his recent comeback. I feel as if I am able to open my worldview through hearing courageous conversations. It is such a privelege
Worrying when academics and other influential professionals are having to "broaden their worldview" when faced with basic and moderate commentary in the public domain..
Imagine using a Tom MacDonald line like its deep... There is no such thing as hate speech. Admitting like racist speech is different is losing half the battle.
@@ClaireFrances Those are death threats already covered by the law. Me saying Js are skeevy scheming rats and Bs are murderous criminals isnt hate speech its free speech.
@@ClaireFrances There are already laws that address that kind of speech under the heading of 'a call for action' You can't threaten to lynch anyone not just black people or march anyone into a gas chamber not just Jews. You can't threaten to kill anyone or damage their property. Hate speech laws are a fascist idea that definitely is designed to shut down free speech and make people afraid to speak on any subject in case they 'offend' some one. You will come to understand this when they come for you as they will.
The Kathy Newman was my red pill moment. I had heard of Peterson and read about how much of a hateful, bigoted nazi he was. Watched the interview and realized everything he was saying was entirely rational and reasonable. That's when I first delved into just how much the media lies to us.
Now do the same for the people called bigoted Nazis by those people you are talking about. Jordan Peterson actively deplatformed Faith Goldy he is no different.
@@JohnSmith-wd1oq i don't think Many of those people are what they are called "nazis" "white supremacists" ect but they often just hold fringe ideas that have no chance of ever being implemented like I just saw in a convo with Dr Taylor marshall who supported catholic monarchy, goldy supported Francoism in the USA.
@@tylerhill9510 Honestly Francoism sounds better than what we have now or the weak response from most right wingers. My point is Peterson and the Intellectual Dork Web are all hypocrites they go on and on about free speech but when its risky to defend someone to the right of them they never do it as evidenced by Jordan Peterson kicking Goldy off of a Free Speech panel because she interviewed people who were at Charlottesville.
@@JohnSmith-wd1oq where is faith goldy now, or so many other "alt-right" commentators? Persona non grata, jordan peterson is able to reach a huge audience and red pill many people because although they attack with all kinds of labels, they really don't stick because he has maintained legitimacy by not associating with more fringe people. Its scary that these people are deplatformed, censored ect but JP overall is a voice of reason and is a force for good.
Jordan B Peterson: "My message to the Hungarians Do not rebel against your PM Your leader is trying to restore the metaphysical foundation of the 1000 years old Hungarian empire I would like to tell you a secret about Jesus and a secret about your PM. Another name for Jesus is Viktor"
I found Jordan Peterson as a result of people, who I love but realize can be caught up in the zeitgeist, purporting him as alt-right, neo-Nazi, etc.. As the saying goes, "Trust, but verify." So I decided to see what he was saying and develop my reputations as appropriate. As I watched the clips they damned him with, a realized these were incomplete and not representing the whole of what he was trying to say... so I searched on. My skepticism has been profoundly rewarded. Dr. Peterson, your lectures and writings have been profoundly influential on a man who had hit his rock bottom and needed that nudge back in the right direction. I had let my personal tragedies plant seeds of bitterness, resentment, and hopelessness. Your teachings were far from the only influence, solid friendships and family were most important. However, that doesn't not diminish how necessary they were to help guide my return from wallowing in my own abyss.
He does make some incorrect claims especially on religious issues, but he's a far greater man than anyone who tries to demonize him for things he has done while trying to discredit his proficiency in psychology.
Jordan Peterson must be protected at all costs. And I do find it weird aswell, as a black man (or man period) I find his lectures and teachings to be profound and inspiring. whereas alot of my white liberal peers paint him to be this alt right racist homophobic tyrant. But what can you expect when this generations idea of "doing your research" is watching 30 second Instagram reels. Anyways glad to know that this is having the same positive impact on others. This is real social justice 💯
Chomsky says his so far right he thinks everyone is a Marxist. IE the universities. The opposite is true. I found him in a similar way. I don't need his help tho. All that said his is just brilliant within a number of subjects. His ideology is besides the point.
I hope Africa can hold out against this weird woke shit mate. I'm glad you support him. He's a good man and worthy of most of our respect. How are things in Ghana?
This interview is gold dust. There are depths to Andrew Doyle that are not always apparent and it takes a long form interview like this to draw them out. Jordan, obviously, is a legend.
This is one of the best chats I have listened to in years, there are some great convos out there, but this is a brilliant window into both of them and it is also a huge endorsement on how we _can_ and _should_ talk. But, the left have to censor with threats and violence to avoid the establishment from being threatened, they are now the gatekeepers of the system they pretend to want to destroy. They get arrested and their handlers drop the charges, you want an example of big government advocacy? Antifa and BLM.
I was going to write something similar now I don't have to, I'm very pleased that it is how worked out well for Doyle. Lets keep hoping that Jordan is on the mend.
I am not saying that academic credentials are that important, but the fact that Doyle has an Oxford doctorate in English Literature is evidence of a trained mind and a capacity to analyse issues in depth. And because he is a quick-witted comedian he can wear his learning very lightly, which is attractive.
@@maxfern5701 While I would never through out all of Peterson's works because of this, it is a good criticism in the vein of what he also teaches to do. If you critique a person who purports a method of taking control of chaos and mental stability through rational means and an appreciation of some christian concepts that he believes to be inherently derived from a good way to live, it begs the question of, where did it fail the man himself? It is a comically dismissive to say [I didn't fully grasp the depth of these effects...] as per Peterson, while also being deeply interested and credited in a subset of a field around addiction and writing on how to take control of ones' life. Perhaps a response is that he wrote his books because of his fundamental flaw in taking control of himself or that being catapulted into the public arena was not a planned act and thus he isn't fully at fault for not holding up. etc. But it isn't an unfair criticism.
I have no words fitting for how much this conversation moved me!! Both of your bravery and immense sacrifice to try and pull this world out of such dangerous times- is astonishing, and with true thought and intelligence! I can't express the depth of my gratitude for you both!! ♡♡
Liberal leftist progressive white women decide what's racist where I come from. Yes, they look me square in the face, a black woman, and tell me is and what is not racist. And they win.
By the standards of evidence it is. But they don't believe in such standards. 'Lived experience' is really a synonym for 'the truth according to me cannot be questioned'.
It’s quite funny that you two guys were speaking about how I discovered Jordan Peterson. A friend of mine was trying to debunk Dr. Peterson (she’s a radical left psychologist and feminist) and I said well I will see what’s going on with him. And so, the more videos I watched about Dr. Peterson the more I agreed with what he said. In my country (Spain), the radical left has taken over the discourse about what men are supposed to say. If you get out from that discourse you’re a bigot, anti-feminist and pro-patriarcal ideology which is appalling and that’s why men don’t speak about what they really think about in a particular a law that puts you into jail for I think is 24 hours no matter whether your innocent or not, in case a woman go to the police and accuse you of being physically attacked by a man. Feminists and the government say that it is better to put one innocent man in jail for 24 hours than letting one violent man free so that he might hit or kill a woman. They don’t give a damn about the social judgement that this man in particular will suffer independently whether he is guilty or innocent. I found this preposterous and yet, nobody says a thing because they are afraid (journalists in particular) of the consequences they may suffer not only in their jobs but also with the relationships they may have at all social levels. In layman’s terms, we’re kind of fucked up with regards to free speech. Thank you both for such an inspiring talk.
my dude, all I hear one the interwebz I pass through VERY fine comb of logical critique, and I have NOT found any flaws in Dr. Peterson's logic yet... and I have listened to hundreds f hours of his content, thus I take most of what he says as researched truth :P
The big underlying premise of not letting any guilty men go free for fear of them hurting a woman is the classic chivalrous statement that women are more valuable than men. Doesn't matter how many innocent men we send to jail, as long as women are safe. In a disaster, we want to know how many women and children were hurt or killed. Men? Meh!
it mght be high time to just own those "insults". "if something i say happens to make you think that about me, then fine. but im going to stay this way regardless of your opinion on me, or my opinion."
TRUTH does not mind being questioned but a LIE does not like being challenged. .. “The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous.” - George Orwell "Whoever controls the media controls the mind" - Jim Morrison "People who think their government cares about them probably think strippers love them too" - origin unknown "This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector." - Plato "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire "A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow "I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned." Richard P. Feynman "Ownership of the media is always in the hands of the perpetrators." - Alexander Solzhenitsyn “Governments will use whatever technology is available to combat their primary enemy - their own population.” - Noam Chomsky “The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it.” - H.L. Mencken "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants” Albert Camus "It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled" -Mark Twain. “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”-C.S Lewis
My sister is a stripper and she does love everyone, I was an undercover dancer in discos and loved everyone too moment to moment. We do need a set of awareness thanks to Government, is how we think. If is not controlled there is no awareness. Freedom requires much responsibility, I've taken many people to trial thanks to harassment and hatred, trust me that without a good Government the law wouldn't shape the form we respect each other. Trust me, I come from a country Venezuela where the hatred in the media destroyed it's foundations.
Profound! I'm just sitting here awestruck with my mouth wide open trying to comprehend the depth and weight of this discussion. I've listened to so many of Jordan's discussions, but clearly he found himself so well in today's episode. He did take a step back, allowed the guest to speak more (clearly took some lessons from recent discussions) and by doing that he allowed something trully magnificent to unfold. This is so important on so many levels. Thank you Sir
Thanks to the pair of you. The most stimulating discussion I have seen to date. I'm from the UK and think Andrew Doyle has a great future in the fight against the wokeapocalypse.
Jordan B Peterson: "My message to the Hungarians Do not rebel against your PM Your leader is trying to restore the metaphysical foundation of the 1000 years old Hungarian empire I would like to tell you a secret about Jesus and a secret about your PM. Another name for Jesus is Viktor"
Here's something to mull over: The kids who were in school when the heavy-handed anti-bullying programs started are the same generation that's now running around as adults and both bullying people and being terrible at responding to bullies.
By defending the victim they are virtuous by searching out bullies they become one. You have to remember to ask if someone needs help or your the one victimizing. Love your comment!
Those anti-bully programs never worked. Usually once the kid who had been bullied finally stood up for themselves, they’re the one that got in trouble. The perpetrators of the bullying never once got reprimanded. It’s as if the teachers and school admin. protected those children that bullied. Sometimes teachers were the worst bullies.
Are you sure it's those that were bullied, or is it the bullies evolved? I was bullied mercilessly through grade school and a lot of high school. It destroyed who I should have been, I suffer from chronic depression and insecurity. I hate seeing this new movement. It's insanity.
The amount of content being published is overwhelming in all the best sense. Feeling absolutely blessed to be constantly given new conversations to glean and learn from.
@@daedra40 MREs for the mind so to speak. Rewatching is sometimes even crucial: bad audio, hard or unknwon topics seem to require another run. Or if the topic hits home for someone he needs to learn it by heart :D
What you have to remember is this and most of Jordan’s guest are participating in a conversation with him rather than being interviewed by him. We all know that conversation has a lot of overspeaking and cross-talk, especially deep conversations that exchange ideas.
Dr Peterson, your presence is the water of life and I thank you for clearing all our minds on this topic and so many other topics and subjects! Thank you thank you thank you
Check your employer's bullying and harassment policy...it may well be that they reflect this. You may find 'intention' is irrelevant and perception is all. Think about that. It quite literally does not matter what you actually say, do or intend. It's astonishing and everyone needs to fight it BEFORE it affects you or your colleagues directly.
Wasn't expecting seing one of my favourite artists comment on here. But it is so reaffirming that this madness apparently hasn't gripped the whole of arts yet. Kudos! Btw Holmgang is my all time favourite. Inspired me to learn Jaw Harp :)
I saw your post on Facebook and couldn't believe how intolerant your so called "fans" are, considering they are the ones spouting about being tolerant of other views and lifestyles 🙄 I love your music, puts me in a trance and do all of my artwork and housework with you on play 💙 much love from the UK 💙
Wow, a person in the U.K. could really ruin somebody's life if they harborered any resentment against someone by simply false reporting. Oh gosh people would never do that though right? Its unheard of.
One of the facts that I like with JP is that he is not afraid to discuss with people who do not share his views. The problem with many social media platforms is that people speak about each other, and what they think the "other side" has said or meant, but they do not actually talk to each other. Therefore, it is so important to listen to the actual person. This format helps me a lot - so Thanks from a German liberal and gay person!
@@sumthingwickedly I hope this is/will be the case. I still think him teaching will produce more critical minds due to the exchange possible in a lecture.
GB News is a breath of fresh air in the UK, as is Andrew Doyle. I can listen to rational debate all day long, so many of the conversations we'd love to have but fear being sent to the gulag 😂
To combat “bad speech” you need “good speech” Just because you “cancel” someone doesn’t mean they don’t exist anymore..you actually make it worse, you cluster all these people together who are now out of sight and out of mind and they plot.
Funny, makes me think about Robben Island where Mandela was imprisoned. They somehow figured that they should put all the political prisoners in the same prison. What happened is that it bolstered their arguments and conviction.
@@suckieduckie So you think Mandela was a good guy? Do some research outside msm propaganda operations and check out the result of Mandela's ANC rule in RSA. If you then still he was a good guy God Help You.
@@leojmullins A) I never said anything about him being good or bad. B) I consider being imprisoned for 29 years, coming out and having all the power possible in the country and not lashing out in a vengeful manner against the people that imprisoned you to be a virtue. People aren't all good or all bad. They are without exception a mix of both.
Because society has shifted to a digital life we are slowly losing the ability to communicate in a healthy manner. Because people rarely communicate in person with people who have different ideas and beliefs when it's done online it's seen as a personal attack. This leads to an attack on the individual who voiced their opinion leading to that individual shutting up or apologizing. This spills over to everyday life and has lead to the current environment we find ourselves in. That's how I see it
I also believe the internet gives people that are crazy a voice. They gang up in numbers and make it seem as though they represent the majority when in reality there is very few of them.
Jordan Peterson , your lectures and talk has save my life too. Thank you sir. You are a great gift to our world and the younger generation. More power to you. I wish you health and strength to continue on shining light in this dark age and time. Thank you
When Jordan talks about the absolut overuse of CCTV cameras in the UK, I can relate strongly to that feeling. I was there a few years a go now, but I can still recall that everywhere I looked I saw signs saying things like 'Smile for the camera' and other such ominous slogans. It was genuinely horrible, because I know what kind of people are in charge of that country now.
"I am not responsible for actions of the imaginary version of me you have inside your head." ~John Scalzi "Difference of opinion leads to inquiry, and inquiry to the truth." - Thomas Jefferson
I learned about Jordan Peterson a few years ago and I was fascinated by his ability to analyze and critique things so eloquently. He delivers it in such a genuine way, it's heartwarming and fulfilling. The more I listen to Jordan Peterson the more I feel like he is closer to God than people believe. Yet, it is not up to us to judge. We all have our opinions and thoughts and views but just because he is expressing his, should not make him a hated person. He is just a truly genuine and compassionate person who has a gift, and he is just giving it to the world, so freely. I admire his thinking and his ability to tune in to all mankind. He has a unique ability to understand the human psyche in all its form.
"Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage." ~Winston Churchill
@@dionbram Thank you for explaining. If that is what you meant, then I don't think the quotation fits. The quotation is about the hypocrisy of some people who present themselves as advocates of free speech. Since the outraged people you are referring to ("the left" is an inappropriate label, btw; Andrew Doyle himself is of the left) do not present themselves as advocates of free speech, they are not the people that the quotation is about.
Yeah. James Lindsay said that the same thing happened to the New Atheist movement. It crashed and burned when the woke hijacked it (unless, of course, the movement was over representative of wokeness as an underlying motive) Moral and sophisticated leaders need to keep an eye on things, otherwise the movement rapidly gets flushed down the internet toilet.
Good to hear these two together. I am so enjoying this discussion. I’ve struggled for a long time with how CAN those who see the world through a series of fantasies of ubiquitous Nazis and transphobes and do not engage in any critical discourse be even persuaded to engage in a conversation, far less be able to be persuaded that those who disagree with any aspect of their dogma are even human. It’s like talking to automatons and their belief system seems more infectious (and dangerous) than new strains of coronavirus.
@@AnimalStomper It has been so long since the Zoo transported me to London, separating us and bringing a great heaviness to my heart. How have you been? Did you marry, Brother? Have kids? I think of you often.
I'm so sorry that JP had to sacrifice his academic career and private practice to stand up for what he believes in .This must be a very difficult climate for comedians as well so I'm glad to hear that Andrew Doyle seems to be thriving at the moment ! Great advise on pursuing a creative endeavor and very thought provoking Podcast as usual !
@@baigandinel7956 In 1.51 He said there was a variety of reasons for that and cited the collage of Psychologists potentially writing a punishing letter (it didn't sound like they actually wrote one ) and the fact that he didn't want his already vulnerable clients to be tainted by there association with a controversial public figure . Yea it sounds complicated to say the least ..
@Albert Gront if you think Jordan Peterson is a white supremacist then you are more coddled than a sheep with thick wool resting warmly under a 13.5 tog dovet.
@Albert Gront are all whites racist? Do you know most whites never owned slaves and at some point in history suffered just as bad or worse? Do you realize how many types of "white" there are and is it fair to put several ethnic groups under one title? Do you believe racism is making judgments based on race and if so how is attacking ALL "WHITES" not racist?
I've been raised to speak my mind, not to lie and always try to act politely. Yet I have been shouted at multiple times just for disagreeing, no matter how politely I put my words. Moreover some people have hard time understanding two people might argue about something without anyone being wrong (or right).
Andrew is amazing. Here's a citation of him from one of his recent programmes on GB News. "I've been previously called a homophobe. Which is simply not true: all of my ex-boyfriends have been gay." :)
Being brought up a Catholic is always fun, being Gay Catholic seems to me is double fun, seing Mr Doyle. At least you get a wonderful sense of humour and habit to cross oneself everytime you're in trouble.
I watched his show on GB News over the weekend. So refreshing to hear balanced views from both sides without any petty name calling and allowing the viewer to make their own mind up. No patronising or implying the viewer is inherently an “ist” or a “phobe”. Well done Andrew.
I religiously follow Titania McGrath's tweets, funny as f*ck. My take out of this great conversation: 33:40 "if you can state the purpose of the art in explicit terms, especially if it's in accordance with an ideology shared by a multitude of people, it's not art at all, it's propaganda". Keep it up professor JP!
Free Speech has always been under attack in one way or another, however, in my short life of 50 years I noticed that political correctness began in the late eighties as an attack upon free speech and free thought!
People adore the person who stands between the mob and something innocent that needs protecting. The rare person who will, in the face of something monstrous, say “You shall not pass”. The accidental hero has no choice. Something animalistic locks in. You stand between the mob and the innocent flower because to not stand ground is unthinkable. Much love, take care
Sorry, but ah, did Andrew just call Tolkien "childish"? Andrew, love what you're doing, agree with everything you've said here. But unless you're referring exclusively to The Hobbit, you my friend need to read LOTR and other works by Tolkien before making such an ignorant indictment of Tolkien. I could rant about this subject for many paragraphs, but I'll just say this: the fact of Frodo's eventual corruption and fall to the evil of the ring at the end of LOTR should indicate clearly that Tolkien's artistic creations are anything but "childish"; if you're looking to indict anyone of propagandistic childishness you have only to read C.S Lewis, while Lewis and Tolkien were certainly friends, they are ANYTHING but comparable with respect to artistic integrity and narrative complexity.
@@lancewalker2595 if this is a copy pasta, its my favorite one yet. Fucking beautiful. Is there a backstory to it? I'm deeply curious about this Andrew guy.
I misheard Andrew's use of the word 'casuistry' as 'kazoo-istry', which is a pretty apt metaphor for cancel culture: a bunch of overgrown children angrily tooting kazoos xD.
Jordan Peterson is a HERO! You kept me in the light during dark times. And showed me how to stay there and grow! Thank you from the bottom of my heart Jordan!
Thank you for being a “bastion” against this nonsense. You have given me very practical and succinct means to argue effectively against these ideologies.
What a sensational interview, two thinkers I admire greatly, I have their books, learned tons from them, and so many important points raised in this discussion.... thank you both.
"every time I am viciously attacked they have their pronouns in their bio and a rainbow etc" Yes, this is the revenge of the hierarchical fringe. Who view themselves as being a stranger to value and hate valuation. This produces an odd kind of inverse valuation and a cruel desire to visit their kind of craven unfulfillment upon others in the most extreme way humanly possible. If you hate valuation, taking as much value from those who have it is likely your core driving force.
“Craven unfullfillment” well said. Soooo many suffer from this. And it causes great mischief and indeed evil in our societies because people are not working hard at developing themselves.
@@hammersmithdrums5532 and fair enough why bother? It's practically trendy to be under developed. Some circles celebrate it. It's just all so empty and smacks of the inconsolable Nietzschian prophesy about the death of God. Talk about calling the ball.
That's a legitimately profound insight and well articulated. I would add; To make the bitterest maladjusted fringes of society the center of all discourse, and place them squarely in the driver's seat is insanity.
12:32 - Dr Peterson is a hero of mine for defending free speech. I am on a journey to fight for free speech largely because of this message right here.
I heard about JP for sometime from the “woke” perspective. And he was mentioned in some heterodox podcasts but NOT vilified. So I went to hear/see him for myself. Astonishing that he could be so misrepresented and excoriated!!! Deep intellect and phenomenal communicator and such integrity. His YT materials are allowing me to rethink so many things. Yes, humans need a religion in some form or another… if not in a church then certainly with a political stance. As a Baby Boomer I am appreciating more and more my life BEFORE the internet. Wonderful conversation between two thinkers!
The good thing about being offended is it doesn't bother anybody else and you can just get over it. But these days people want to get offended on other people's behalf and then get some sort of revenge out of it. Disgraceful if you ask me
I read a book when I was little called 'The Games People Play' that throws the idea that people communicate to express ideas completely out the window. It suggests instead people have games they like to play, competing and collaborating over psychological gains. Some players are really good, some games are rigged. And I got good at finding what games people are playing, not playing the ones I don't want to, and making my favourite games seem like the fun ones, so more people would play with me. That book made a massive difference in my life and its lessons are still useful. If someone is playing a victim aggressor game, the current fad is that its a group game but played one on one. Whoever goes first picks the victim character and declares they have lost, the other player is the aggressor and is broadly exiled from future games. I really don't like games where turn order disadvantages you, I'm not so naïve as to expect fair play per say, its more that those games and players try to trick you into playing with them, it starts before it starts, and goes on long after the interesting decisions have run out. Their existence is itself an energy sink, made worse by the high stakes modern players add. They're like fads though in that they don't stick around long; the whoever goes first wins style games tend not to go well for new players. Its actually nice that the victim aggressor game is a group game. If you can catch the screening question, to see if you're in their group or some other group, and deny them that clarity instead inviting them to your own game, they won't wanna play their game with you. As long as they're limited to the victim role, they can't play that game without sizing you up properly before playing, since the victim role requires losing and they don't want to lose too badly. Furthermore bad threat assessment is likely already an issue, as poor shadow integration is quintessential to the victim role, so playing with a stranger just becomes too risky if you dodge the screening question. I suppose if you catch the screening question, you could also claim the victim role right there and then, but if you're looking for the screening question, its probably because you don't want to play that game. In any case, it not a great game, blurring the play boundaries across games is dangerous and makes people less playful. I understand the appeal: the victim aggressor game is set up where the only outcomes are we win or they lose, but it just seems silly and no fun compared to better games with better players
This is a lot to take in. A benign? example is the tendency for people in conversation to not really listen to the other. So you wonder what is actually going on in the minds of the interlocutors? It comes back to JP’s claim that speaking is actually thinking out loud. Your interlocutor provides you with the outlet for your thoughts but, you are thinking so hard about convincing yourself AND the other that you have something meaningful to say, that you actually can’t properly assess their ideas. Add to this any negative personality traits and it’s little wonder seemingly baseless disagreements occur.
Peterson's voice will be spread across America as his books, podcasts and reading list will join me on an ocean-to-ocean trip this summer. Thanks for helping me find a goal to drag myself towards, a cross to bear, and a metric to measure myself against.
Andrew, I love that you went incognito and hung out with the 'other side'. What a great idea to really experience first hand what they are about, learn their ideologies, temperament, arguments, attention spans, anger, and more. You have an amazing perspective. You gave me many ideas on how to infiltrate them, them being my family and some friends that don't really want to speak to me anymore since I learned the truth. They want me to 'talk to the hand' and in reality they put up their hand to my face when I am talking.
"Never argue with an idiot... they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". This is why it's best to stay away from Twitter, as the number of intentional idiots is so high. But also as Mark Twain said: "“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference". So you're more likely to lose but even if you "win" the idiots won't realise it
D: "No Im Not getting the dark money for my politics" JP: "thats what such a person would also say" D: " If i get such dark money it must be quite dark because i cant see it" And my man is saying hes not funny
Jordon, I work as an Osteopath and the chances of you seeing this are incredibly small, but I would absolutely love to see you have a podcast regarding pain and neurobiology as I am curious to see how the phenomena associated with pain overlap with wider religious and metaphysical phenomena.
Free speech is such a core tenet of our democracy, yet too many people (leftists) want to eliminate it. Without free speech, we are nothing. Why is why people like Jordan who advocate against mandated speech are such an inspiration to me and my UA-cam journey
It wasn't very long ago that the "right" wanted to do away with free speech. There are unintelligent people across the political spectrum. (You may argue that there are intelligent people that want to do away with free speech, but I would argue they are "educated" not intelligent.)
@@SeleckPlays Jerry Clower used to say ‘some folks have been educated beyond their intelligence’, which I think is clearly an accurate statement. ….Jordan seems to be attracting more of them, as of late. 😂
Wait, so it's Leftists that are banning teaching theories right now? Because I thought it was Republicans banning Critical Race Theory. Some of the laws are so vague that allow anything that will make someone feel guilty to be banned.
Some want to eliminate all of the "problematic" elements of our humanity, namely the higher intellectual functions, to ban the bad words and drum the good ones into us by repetition. North Korea is the truest realization of this experiment.
@@baigandinel7956 So in other words you want to be able to say whatever racist, sexist, homophobic, etc things you want without criticism (cause nobody in the US is looking to ban "problematic" words). Yet when Governments are ACTUALLY banning words you're silent. Some how I don't think NK is the way it is because you can't use racial slurs like you'd like.
Focus on the things that strike you (and your audience) with meaning that provokes a physical response - especially if it's difficult or impossible to explain the reaction with words. Hone and purify something like that, and you may have a zeitgeist coalesce around your work.
Thank you for having this conversation and having it being available to the public. It’s needed. It’s a start in reversing the current backwards ideology.
BOTA AGUARDA EM TODOS OS BANCOS ATE O UNICO DONO APRESENTAR SO ELES TEM QUE DAR CONTA AU POVO DOS GANHOS PUBLICOS PARA MANTER SUA SITUAÇÃO . O QUE HA EM FROM TEM DE ESTA ASEGURADO WHO . PRA TUDO SER REVISTO E CORRIGIDO . E SEPARADO DE ADMINISRAÇÃO PUBLICA . STORY E DE PARTICULAR E INDEPENDENTE . DE UM SO SOCIAL MIDIA #
Outstanding - Great to hear from the front-line troops who fight daily to gain back ground, often at immense and intense personal cost. Much of the more indulgent belligerence we see from the fashionable-issue-of-the-day brigade has undefined but very real limits; even they don't know when they'll hit those barriers and find themselves at the end of their own sword. Exposing them and fighting back will become increasingly straight forward as more people see them for what they are, keeping that pressure up is more important now than ever before. Thanks to both of you for doing such a good job to date fighting for the side of the rest of us.
I m a psychologist and started exploring Jordan Peterson because a friend close friend passed a very disparaging remark about JP and when I asked if she had listened to his podcasts she hadn't. She sent me a comment by another prominent psychologist as corroboration. I suspected the comment was based on information taken out of context and started listening to JP. I soon discovered someone whom I think of as an "old soul in a suit". I then explored his family and discovered warm, thoughtful, open, real and caring people who wanted the best for others. Through Mikhaila's podcasts I have discovered a rich and constructive world of incredible people and ideas. JP also has very thought provoking interviews since his recent comeback. I feel as if I am able to open my worldview through hearing courageous conversations. It is such a privelege
Are you still friends with this "close" friend of yours?
Judgin’ by your grammer🤮
@@recondogohome360 - Oh, the irony! Isn't it past your bedtime?
....a privilege as well.
Worrying when academics and other influential professionals are having to "broaden their worldview" when faced with basic and moderate commentary in the public domain..
As our fellow Canadian Tom Macdonald once said:
"There's a difference between hate speech and speech that you hate."
Imagine using a Tom MacDonald line like its deep... There is no such thing as hate speech. Admitting like racist speech is different is losing half the battle.
@@JohnSmith-wd1oq yo but he's a straight white male bro. Nothing deeper than that. PROFOUND even.
There absolutely is hate speech. If you say you want lynch black people or march Jews to a gas chamber that is undeniable hate speech.
@@ClaireFrances Those are death threats already covered by the law. Me saying Js are skeevy scheming rats and Bs are murderous criminals isnt hate speech its free speech.
@@ClaireFrances There are already laws that address that kind of speech under the heading of 'a call for action' You can't threaten to lynch anyone not just black people or march anyone into a gas chamber not just Jews. You can't threaten to kill anyone or damage their property. Hate speech laws are a fascist idea that definitely is designed to shut down free speech and make people afraid to speak on any subject in case they 'offend' some one. You will come to understand this when they come for you as they will.
'Non-crime hate incident.'
- 'I wish I thought of that.' - Orwell
🤣👌
Best comment here
Surely, “I wish I had thought of that,” had that been Orwell.
@kareem mounzer Haha😂
Uncrime
The Kathy Newman was my red pill moment. I had heard of Peterson and read about how much of a hateful, bigoted nazi he was. Watched the interview and realized everything he was saying was entirely rational and reasonable. That's when I first delved into just how much the media lies to us.
I had a very similar experience.
Now do the same for the people called bigoted Nazis by those people you are talking about. Jordan Peterson actively deplatformed Faith Goldy he is no different.
@@JohnSmith-wd1oq i don't think
Many of those people are what they are called "nazis" "white supremacists" ect but they often just hold fringe ideas that have no chance of ever being implemented like I just saw in a convo with Dr Taylor marshall who supported catholic monarchy, goldy supported Francoism in the USA.
@@tylerhill9510 Honestly Francoism sounds better than what we have now or the weak response from most right wingers. My point is Peterson and the Intellectual Dork Web are all hypocrites they go on and on about free speech but when its risky to defend someone to the right of them they never do it as evidenced by Jordan Peterson kicking Goldy off of a Free Speech panel because she interviewed people who were at Charlottesville.
@@JohnSmith-wd1oq where is faith goldy now, or so many other "alt-right" commentators? Persona non grata, jordan peterson is able to reach a huge audience and red pill many people because although they attack with all kinds of labels, they really don't stick because he has maintained legitimacy by not associating with more fringe people. Its scary that these people are deplatformed, censored ect but JP overall is a voice of reason and is a force for good.
Andrew Doyle is a national treasure! Two absolutely brilliant minds.
Jordan B Peterson: "My message to the Hungarians
Do not rebel against your PM
Your leader is trying to restore the metaphysical foundation of the 1000 years old Hungarian empire
I would like to tell you a secret about Jesus and a secret about your PM. Another name for Jesus is Viktor"
I found Jordan Peterson as a result of people, who I love but realize can be caught up in the zeitgeist, purporting him as alt-right, neo-Nazi, etc.. As the saying goes, "Trust, but verify." So I decided to see what he was saying and develop my reputations as appropriate. As I watched the clips they damned him with, a realized these were incomplete and not representing the whole of what he was trying to say... so I searched on. My skepticism has been profoundly rewarded.
Dr. Peterson, your lectures and writings have been profoundly influential on a man who had hit his rock bottom and needed that nudge back in the right direction. I had let my personal tragedies plant seeds of bitterness, resentment, and hopelessness. Your teachings were far from the only influence, solid friendships and family were most important. However, that doesn't not diminish how necessary they were to help guide my return from wallowing in my own abyss.
He does make some incorrect claims especially on religious issues, but he's a far greater man than anyone who tries to demonize him for things he has done while trying to discredit his proficiency in psychology.
Jordan Peterson must be protected at all costs. And I do find it weird aswell, as a black man (or man period) I find his lectures and teachings to be profound and inspiring. whereas alot of my white liberal peers paint him to be this alt right racist homophobic tyrant. But what can you expect when this generations idea of "doing your research" is watching 30 second Instagram reels. Anyways glad to know that this is having the same positive impact on others. This is real social justice 💯
Good luck, live your best life!
I could’ve wrote the same sentiment word for word as I am just now beginning my climb out of a hole I dug and fell in to
Chomsky says his so far right he thinks everyone is a Marxist. IE the universities. The opposite is true.
I found him in a similar way. I don't need his help tho.
All that said his is just brilliant within a number of subjects. His ideology is besides the point.
I'm from Africa Ghana I support Jordan peterson.
And I support your ass for supporting JPs ass. I wish u a merry christmas, fella.
I love Africa, one of my dreams not to visit but have something to go every year.
Are you now white cis male for woke standards?
I hope Africa can hold out against this weird woke shit mate. I'm glad you support him. He's a good man and worthy of most of our respect. How are things in Ghana?
@@TecOneself What are you talking about?
This interview is gold dust. There are depths to Andrew Doyle that are not always apparent and it takes a long form interview like this to draw them out. Jordan, obviously, is a legend.
This is one of the best chats I have listened to in years, there are some great convos out there, but this is a brilliant window into both of them and it is also a huge endorsement on how we _can_ and _should_ talk. But, the left have to censor with threats and violence to avoid the establishment from being threatened, they are now the gatekeepers of the system they pretend to want to destroy. They get arrested and their handlers drop the charges, you want an example of big government advocacy? Antifa and BLM.
I was going to write something similar now I don't have to, I'm very pleased that it is how worked out well for Doyle. Lets keep hoping that Jordan is on the mend.
I am not saying that academic credentials are that important, but the fact that Doyle has an Oxford doctorate in English Literature is evidence of a trained mind and a capacity to analyse issues in depth. And because he is a quick-witted comedian he can wear his learning very lightly, which is attractive.
@Jesus loves a Shovelhead context?
@@maxfern5701 While I would never through out all of Peterson's works because of this, it is a good criticism in the vein of what he also teaches to do. If you critique a person who purports a method of taking control of chaos and mental stability through rational means and an appreciation of some christian concepts that he believes to be inherently derived from a good way to live, it begs the question of, where did it fail the man himself?
It is a comically dismissive to say [I didn't fully grasp the depth of these effects...] as per Peterson, while also being deeply interested and credited in a subset of a field around addiction and writing on how to take control of ones' life. Perhaps a response is that he wrote his books because of his fundamental flaw in taking control of himself or that being catapulted into the public arena was not a planned act and thus he isn't fully at fault for not holding up. etc. But it isn't an unfair criticism.
I would say that Andrew Doyle is an underrated thinker. I will be looking out for his work in the future.
He is an awakened thinker, he was a liberal who voted for Jeremy Corbyn. That is not a very smart history.
You're absolutely correct. I see a lot of him on GB news, which exposes the truly horrific amount of bias on mainstream media.
I have no words fitting for how much this conversation moved me!!
Both of your bravery and immense sacrifice to try and pull this world out of such dangerous times- is astonishing, and with true thought and intelligence!
I can't express the depth of my gratitude for you both!! ♡♡
You're crushing it with the guests you're bringing on, Dr. Peterson!
For real
Carrot cake
Zucchini loaf!
Ps. McAfee didn't kill himself
Absolutely
Except for Muhammad Hijab. He's a liar, a bully and a vile man.
My friend: What’s wrong with prohibiting racist jokes?
Me: *Who decides* what’s racist and the “appropriate” punishment?
As our fellow Canadian Tom Macdonald once said:
"There's a difference between hate speech and speech that you hate."
Well it won't be white people, put it that way!
@@AleXoEx0 Off-brand whites with small hats.
Liberal leftist progressive white women decide what's racist where I come from. Yes, they look me square in the face, a black woman, and tell me is and what is not racist. And they win.
@@creationevolution315 How do you respond?
"Lived experience" is a synonym for "anecdotally speaking."
By the standards of evidence it is. But they don't believe in such standards. 'Lived experience' is really a synonym for 'the truth according to me cannot be questioned'.
So is “my / his/her truth” I.e., there is no truth i.e., objective reality. The fundamental tenet of post-modernism
Deconstruction as an end game. What could possibly go wrong?
Do you have any personal experience to substantiate that assertion? Oh, wait ...
Or 'shut up, I know more than you'
It’s quite funny that you two guys were speaking about how I discovered Jordan Peterson. A friend of mine was trying to debunk Dr. Peterson (she’s a radical left psychologist and feminist) and I said well I will see what’s going on with him. And so, the more videos I watched about Dr. Peterson the more I agreed with what he said. In my country (Spain), the radical left has taken over the discourse about what men are supposed to say. If you get out from that discourse you’re a bigot, anti-feminist and pro-patriarcal ideology which is appalling and that’s why men don’t speak about what they really think about in a particular a law that puts you into jail for I think is 24 hours no matter whether your innocent or not, in case a woman go to the police and accuse you of being physically attacked by a man. Feminists and the government say that it is better to put one innocent man in jail for 24 hours than letting one violent man free so that he might hit or kill a woman. They don’t give a damn about the social judgement that this man in particular will suffer independently whether he is guilty or innocent. I found this preposterous and yet, nobody says a thing because they are afraid (journalists in particular) of the consequences they may suffer not only in their jobs but also with the relationships they may have at all social levels. In layman’s terms, we’re kind of fucked up with regards to free speech. Thank you both for such an inspiring talk.
my dude, all I hear one the interwebz I pass through VERY fine comb of logical critique, and I have NOT found any flaws in Dr. Peterson's logic yet... and I have listened to hundreds f hours of his content, thus I take most of what he says as researched truth :P
The big underlying premise of not letting any guilty men go free for fear of them hurting a woman is the classic chivalrous statement that women are more valuable than men. Doesn't matter how many innocent men we send to jail, as long as women are safe. In a disaster, we want to know how many women and children were hurt or killed. Men? Meh!
it mght be high time to just own those "insults". "if something i say happens to make you think that about me, then fine. but im going to stay this way regardless of your opinion on me, or my opinion."
Feminists have a special place in hell.
Humans are a patriarchal species. We're not black widows!
Dr Peterson is a brilliant man. I truly hope he comes back into the forefront.
TRUTH does not mind being questioned but a LIE does not like being challenged. ..
“The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous.” - George Orwell
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind" - Jim Morrison
"People who think their government cares about them probably think strippers love them too" - origin unknown
"This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector." - Plato
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned." Richard P. Feynman
"Ownership of the media is always in the hands of the perpetrators." - Alexander Solzhenitsyn
“Governments will use whatever technology is available to combat their primary enemy - their own population.” - Noam Chomsky
“The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it.” - H.L. Mencken
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants” Albert Camus
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled" -Mark Twain.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”-C.S Lewis
"Don't let it happen it's up to you " ~ George Orwell
My sister is a stripper and she does love everyone, I was an undercover dancer in discos and loved everyone too moment to moment. We do need a set of awareness thanks to Government, is how we think. If is not controlled there is no awareness. Freedom requires much responsibility, I've taken many people to trial thanks to harassment and hatred, trust me that without a good Government the law wouldn't shape the form we respect each other. Trust me, I come from a country Venezuela where the hatred in the media destroyed it's foundations.
@@TecOneself Im sure she did.
Truth can hurt
Hagrid
Profound! I'm just sitting here awestruck with my mouth wide open trying to comprehend the depth and weight of this discussion. I've listened to so many of Jordan's discussions, but clearly he found himself so well in today's episode.
He did take a step back, allowed the guest to speak more (clearly took some lessons from recent discussions) and by doing that he allowed something trully magnificent to unfold. This is so important on so many levels.
Thank you Sir
WELL SAID🇬🇧
My thoughts exactly. Good job bro
Im glad im alive at a time when good conversations can be accessed willingly. Good times.
Amen.
Me too
Hagrid
and the graving for these convos is real! Bless you, my friend.
real education
Thank you both for standing up and your continued fight for real truth for humanity and civil rights for all people
Thanks to the pair of you. The most stimulating discussion I have seen to date. I'm from the UK and think Andrew Doyle has a great future in the fight against the wokeapocalypse.
Stop the "wokeapocalypse".
Now, there's a Billboard, T-shirt quote for ya'.
👍
Jordan B Peterson: "My message to the Hungarians
Do not rebel against your PM
Your leader is trying to restore the metaphysical foundation of the 1000 years old Hungarian empire
I would like to tell you a secret about Jesus and a secret about your PM. Another name for Jesus is Viktor"
Here's something to mull over:
The kids who were in school when the heavy-handed anti-bullying programs started are the same generation that's now running around as adults and both bullying people and being terrible at responding to bullies.
By defending the victim they are virtuous by searching out bullies they become one. You have to remember to ask if someone needs help or your the one victimizing. Love your comment!
Shoot, I just did this.....
Those anti-bully programs never worked. Usually once the kid who had been bullied finally stood up for themselves, they’re the one that got in trouble. The perpetrators of the bullying never once got reprimanded.
It’s as if the teachers and school admin. protected those children that bullied.
Sometimes teachers were the worst bullies.
Are you sure it's those that were bullied, or is it the bullies evolved? I was bullied mercilessly through grade school and a lot of high school. It destroyed who I should have been, I suffer from chronic depression and insecurity. I hate seeing this new movement. It's insanity.
Bullying made me hilarious. It destroyed my self - esteem, sure, but hey, isn't being funny more important?😏
The amount of content being published is overwhelming in all the best sense. Feeling absolutely blessed to be constantly given new conversations to glean and learn from.
Hagrid
100%. If you have to consume it in parts (real life interruptions) you may easily have JBP every day. Wonderful!
@@hagrid3348 I hagrid with you Hagrid!
@@watchingbrain hahaha it's like rationing the good stuff aye? Re-watching the same conversation does sometimes have it's uses too.
@@daedra40 MREs for the mind so to speak. Rewatching is sometimes even crucial: bad audio, hard or unknwon topics seem to require another run.
Or if the topic hits home for someone he needs to learn it by heart :D
Jordan Peterson is NOT interrupting his interlocutor. What a massive improvement on previous discussions.
For sure, his interruptions made so many of his videos completely unbearable to listen to
The Bari Weiss episode was pretty bad. Glad to see he's improved with this guest.
Are you kidding? He's interrupting all the time.
What you have to remember is this and most of Jordan’s guest are participating in a conversation with him rather than being interviewed by him. We all know that conversation has a lot of overspeaking and cross-talk, especially deep conversations that exchange ideas.
Dr Peterson, your presence is the water of life and I thank you for clearing all our minds on this topic and so many other topics and subjects! Thank you thank you thank you
Jordan Peterson’s mind/world is the richest I’ve ever been privileged to share. THANK YOU, Dr. P!
Jesus, that "non crime" thing is terrifying. Based on an individuals perception of an incident.
Worse, based on their claims of their perception.
Right. Can you imagine?
You stole my bike!
That's just your perception... I'm simply borrowing it indefinitely.
Welcome to the United Kingdom where perceptions become reality
Yup.
What do you expect from this administration?
They aren't with us.
Check your employer's bullying and harassment policy...it may well be that they reflect this. You may find 'intention' is irrelevant and perception is all. Think about that. It quite literally does not matter what you actually say, do or intend. It's astonishing and everyone needs to fight it BEFORE it affects you or your colleagues directly.
Important topic! I hope this conversation will reach millions of people. The world is steadily going mad.
Hear hear!
Wasn't expecting seing one of my favourite artists comment on here. But it is so reaffirming that this madness apparently hasn't gripped the whole of arts yet. Kudos!
Btw Holmgang is my all time favourite. Inspired me to learn Jaw Harp :)
Low standard of guest & content, really gone downhill
☝🏻 The English world. And rightly so.
I saw your post on Facebook and couldn't believe how intolerant your so called "fans" are, considering they are the ones spouting about being tolerant of other views and lifestyles 🙄 I love your music, puts me in a trance and do all of my artwork and housework with you on play 💙 much love from the UK 💙
Wow, a person in the U.K. could really ruin somebody's life if they harborered any resentment against someone by simply false reporting. Oh gosh people would never do that though right? Its unheard of.
Yup, it happens.
Yeah but you try and put a real crime they don’t wanna know!!!!!
if there is something to gain from it, someone will do it
Sad but true.
I love it when people I really like collaborate and get along really well like this. Brilliant talk, I was solidly engrossed right through 🤍
One of the facts that I like with JP is that he is not afraid to discuss with people who do not share his views. The problem with many social media platforms is that people speak about each other, and what they think the "other side" has said or meant, but they do not actually talk to each other. Therefore, it is so important to listen to the actual person. This format helps me a lot - so Thanks from a German liberal and gay person!
It is so disheartening to hear Jordan Peterson say he can no longer teach or see patients because being associated with him can be too damaging.
He is perhaps not doing that but on a different path he is certainly reaching a wider audience which we can be glad of 😊
What a world we're living in! The future is bleak, and I am glad to be beyond 60, hopefully not seeing where this is all going.
@@sumthingwickedly I hope this is/will be the case. I still think him teaching will produce more critical minds due to the exchange possible in a lecture.
@@maxg4958 yes I agree but it's driving the leftie woke brigade mad that he's such a presence in the world 😂
@@maxg4958 sadly I think you're not alone we're all hoping we die before this gets to its inevitable hellish conclusion
„Being my student is contentious“ - that’s one of the saddest and most maddening things I’ve heard in a while!
As a psych student I can confirm it is a sad reality for many of us.
Same here. It sends chills down the spine. Is this the equivalent of what the ‘woke’ call systemic racism?
Mr Doyle is actually very good on GB news. I wish him every success.
He also has two excellent podcasts - Free Speech Nation and Culture Wars.
@@markeggins890 thanks for that mark, I wasn’t aware. Will take a look.👍
"I think in order to be racist, intention has to be at the heart of that"
Thank you for putting (most of) our beliefs so eloquently.
These conversations are so needed, and it is so unsettling that we cannot feel safe and free having them.
We need Thomas sowell before time takes the good man
For real ive bein watching him alot lately the man is very insightful and a rare dying breed
Clash of the Titans!
You’re right, but Thomas Sowell doesn’t do interviews anymore.
Yes!
Should dirty politics be abolished? And is there a grey line between free speech and dirty politics?
Andrew Doyle now has his own show on GB News. Available on UA-cam as well.
When the crazies take over, I hope I end up in the same re-education camp with Jordon Peterson and Andrew Doyle!
GB News is a breath of fresh air in the UK, as is Andrew Doyle.
I can listen to rational debate all day long, so many of the conversations we'd love to have but fear being sent to the gulag 😂
To combat “bad speech” you need “good speech” Just because you “cancel” someone doesn’t mean they don’t exist anymore..you actually make it worse, you cluster all these people together who are now out of sight and out of mind and they plot.
Funny, makes me think about Robben Island where Mandela was imprisoned. They somehow figured that they should put all the political prisoners in the same prison. What happened is that it bolstered their arguments and conviction.
@@suckieduckie So you think Mandela was a good guy? Do some research outside msm propaganda operations and check out the result of Mandela's ANC rule in RSA. If you then still he was a good guy God Help You.
@@leojmullins A) I never said anything about him being good or bad. B) I consider being imprisoned for 29 years, coming out and having all the power possible in the country and not lashing out in a vengeful manner against the people that imprisoned you to be a virtue.
People aren't all good or all bad. They are without exception a mix of both.
I was aware of Titania but never heard Andrew Doyle speak, this was a really great chat and he just made a new fan, gonna check out his new book too
He also has two excellent podcasts - Free Speech Nation and Culture Wars.
It's quite impressive to me that this channel is continually able to sit me down for 2 hours at a time and keep me interested.
Because society has shifted to a digital life we are slowly losing the ability to communicate in a healthy manner. Because people rarely communicate in person with people who have different ideas and beliefs when it's done online it's seen as a personal attack. This leads to an attack on the individual who voiced their opinion leading to that individual shutting up or apologizing. This spills over to everyday life and has lead to the current environment we find ourselves in. That's how I see it
Yep agree.
I also believe the internet gives people that are crazy a voice. They gang up in numbers and make it seem as though they represent the majority when in reality there is very few of them.
@@stevearnold8265 agreed. A place where the people with mental health issues have no restrictions.
Our digital life like the internet is forever. People are already being attacked for past recorded comments.
We have built a digital Tower of Babel
Jordan Peterson , your lectures and talk has save my life too. Thank you sir. You are a great gift to our world and the younger generation. More power to you. I wish you health and strength to continue on shining light in this dark age and time. Thank you
I’m grossly offended by the sign that says being offensive is an offense. Who can I have arrested for offending me???
When Jordan talks about the absolut overuse of CCTV cameras in the UK, I can relate strongly to that feeling. I was there a few years a go now, but I can still recall that everywhere I looked I saw signs saying things like 'Smile for the camera' and other such ominous slogans. It was genuinely horrible, because I know what kind of people are in charge of that country now.
The UK has the highest number of surveillance cameras per capita than any other country, including China.
Hagrid
Change who is in charge. By ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
creepy
I never do this. But doesn't everyone give the camera the finger?
God save the Queen
"I am not responsible for actions of the imaginary version of me you have inside your head." ~John Scalzi
"Difference of opinion leads to inquiry, and inquiry to the truth." - Thomas Jefferson
Hagrid
One of the best conversations you’ve had in recent times. It’s great when guests are able to keep up with you.
I learned about Jordan Peterson a few years ago and I was fascinated by his ability to analyze and critique things so eloquently. He delivers it in such a genuine way, it's heartwarming and fulfilling.
The more I listen to Jordan Peterson the more I feel like he is closer to God than people believe.
Yet, it is not up to us to judge. We all have our opinions and thoughts and views but just because he is expressing his, should not make him a hated person.
He is just a truly genuine and compassionate person who has a gift, and he is just giving it to the world, so freely.
I admire his thinking and his ability to tune in to all mankind.
He has a unique ability to understand the human psyche in all its form.
We love Andrew Doyle and professor Peterson of course! Great discussion, thank you!
"Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage." ~Winston Churchill
Hagrid
@@priapulida hagrid
Where have Jordan Peterson and Andrew Doyle said that it is an outrage if people talk back? Can you give me a timestamp, or a quote?
@@omp199 It was in reference to the left being outraged at anyone with a different opinion.
@@dionbram Thank you for explaining.
If that is what you meant, then I don't think the quotation fits. The quotation is about the hypocrisy of some people who present themselves as advocates of free speech. Since the outraged people you are referring to ("the left" is an inappropriate label, btw; Andrew Doyle himself is of the left) do not present themselves as advocates of free speech, they are not the people that the quotation is about.
It's a horrible thing that Scottish independence has become wrapped up in "woke ideology".
Yeah. James Lindsay said that the same thing happened to the New Atheist movement. It crashed and burned when the woke hijacked it (unless, of course, the movement was over representative of wokeness as an underlying motive) Moral and sophisticated leaders need to keep an eye on things, otherwise the movement rapidly gets flushed down the internet toilet.
The abyss stared... & JP stared back. He's going for it!!!!! Next level sir!!!!!!
Andrew Doyle I am glad to have been introduced to you here on this podcast. Never stop being you 💛🙏
Good to hear these two together. I am so enjoying this discussion.
I’ve struggled for a long time with how CAN those who see the world through a series of fantasies of ubiquitous Nazis and transphobes and do not engage in any critical discourse be even persuaded to engage in a conversation, far less be able to be persuaded that those who disagree with any aspect of their dogma are even human. It’s like talking to automatons and their belief system seems more infectious (and dangerous) than new strains of coronavirus.
Oh mate. This is something I've wanted for a long time.
Hello brother
@@AnimalStomper It has been so long since the Zoo transported me to London, separating us and bringing a great heaviness to my heart. How have you been? Did you marry, Brother? Have kids? I think of you often.
I love that this default koala photo will live on forever in many different places
I'm so sorry that JP had to sacrifice his academic career and private practice to stand up for what he believes in .This must be a very difficult climate for comedians as well so I'm glad to hear that Andrew Doyle seems to be thriving at the moment ! Great advise on pursuing a creative endeavor and very thought provoking Podcast as usual !
Hard to understand why he can't have a private practice. You'd think demand would be higher than ever?
@@baigandinel7956 In 1.51 He said there was a variety of reasons for that and cited the collage of Psychologists potentially writing a punishing letter (it didn't sound like they actually wrote one ) and the fact that he didn't want his already vulnerable clients to be tainted by there association with a controversial public figure . Yea it sounds complicated to say the least ..
@Albert Gront if you think Jordan Peterson is a white supremacist then you are more coddled than a sheep with thick wool resting warmly under a 13.5 tog dovet.
@Albert Gront are all whites racist? Do you know most whites never owned slaves and at some point in history suffered just as bad or worse? Do you realize how many types of "white" there are and is it fair to put several ethnic groups under one title? Do you believe racism is making judgments based on race and if so how is attacking ALL "WHITES" not racist?
@@AleXoEx0 so true
Minor note, Saruman was a wolf in sheep's clothing, and Boromir went bad, and then repents. Tolkien's novels were hardly short on moral complexities.
Which is why the story is archetypally balanced, profound and timeless.
@@zenocrate4040 The Hobbit was the first book I read beginning to end, and the first book which really sucked me into its story and characters.
I've been raised to speak my mind, not to lie and always try to act politely. Yet I have been shouted at multiple times just for disagreeing, no matter how politely I put my words. Moreover some people have hard time understanding two people might argue about something without anyone being wrong (or right).
Both of these people are treasures. Brilliant conversation.
Andrew is amazing. Here's a citation of him from one of his recent programmes on GB News.
"I've been previously called a homophobe. Which is simply not true: all of my ex-boyfriends have been gay."
:)
Being brought up a Catholic is always fun, being Gay Catholic seems to me is double fun, seing Mr Doyle.
At least you get a wonderful sense of humour and habit to cross oneself everytime you're in trouble.
Wow based this is totally going to save the West
Har!
Anyways, it's not a persons fault or choice what they are phobic of.
@@outsidethepyramid woosh
I watched his show on GB News over the weekend. So refreshing to hear balanced views from both sides without any petty name calling and allowing the viewer to make their own mind up. No patronising or implying the viewer is inherently an “ist” or a “phobe”. Well done Andrew.
I religiously follow Titania McGrath's tweets, funny as f*ck. My take out of this great conversation: 33:40 "if you can state the purpose of the art in explicit terms, especially if it's in accordance with an ideology shared by a multitude of people, it's not art at all, it's propaganda". Keep it up professor JP!
Any art that does not challenge a person to reflect on their interpretation is not art.
Free Speech has always been under attack in one way or another, however, in my short life of 50 years I noticed that political correctness began in the late eighties as an attack upon free speech and free thought!
So good to see you back and looking healthy again. Dr. Peterson!
People adore the person who stands between the mob and something innocent that needs protecting.
The rare person who will, in the face of something monstrous, say “You shall not pass”.
The accidental hero has no choice. Something animalistic locks in.
You stand between the mob and the innocent flower because to not stand ground is unthinkable.
Much love, take care
Sorry, but ah, did Andrew just call Tolkien "childish"? Andrew, love what you're doing, agree with everything you've said here. But unless you're referring exclusively to The Hobbit, you my friend need to read LOTR and other works by Tolkien before making such an ignorant indictment of Tolkien. I could rant about this subject for many paragraphs, but I'll just say this: the fact of Frodo's eventual corruption and fall to the evil of the ring at the end of LOTR should indicate clearly that Tolkien's artistic creations are anything but "childish"; if you're looking to indict anyone of propagandistic childishness you have only to read C.S Lewis, while Lewis and Tolkien were certainly friends, they are ANYTHING but comparable with respect to artistic integrity and narrative complexity.
@@lancewalker2595 if this is a copy pasta, its my favorite one yet. Fucking beautiful. Is there a backstory to it? I'm deeply curious about this Andrew guy.
One of the best conversations I've ever heard! JP is a genius
Already ordered his book 'free speech and why it matters' coming in the post. Great to see this and solidify the importance of the book
I shall too, thanks for the reminder.
Good
He also has two excellent podcasts - Free Speech Nation and Culture Wars.
Please never stop having these conversations, I simply love them!
Bravo gentlemen👏 A wonderful and necessary conversation.
I misheard Andrew's use of the word 'casuistry' as 'kazoo-istry', which is a pretty apt metaphor for cancel culture: a bunch of overgrown children angrily tooting kazoos xD.
Kazz-yoo-ist-tree is the correct pronunciation of "casuistry". What's your point?
@@Happyheretic2308 Because 'kazoo' is the first thing I thought of and found it funny.
@@harrysecombegroupie 😂
Sir Cumference territory?
Jordan Peterson is a HERO! You kept me in the light during dark times. And showed me how to stay there and grow!
Thank you from the bottom of my heart Jordan!
Thank you for being a “bastion” against this nonsense. You have given me very practical and succinct means to argue effectively against these ideologies.
What a sensational interview, two thinkers I admire greatly, I have their books, learned tons from them, and so many important points raised in this discussion.... thank you both.
Another great guest in Andrew Doyle. Such a wonderful conversation.
I already know this discussion is going to be good
I already know that I'm going to die so I hate everything about life
@@jasontheman3763 You have the responsibility to Bring the light that only you can, do it we all want you to succeed
This is excellent!
You’re hot
This is an excellent discussion I’ve learned a lot listening to this. Modern day censorship is like burning books in Germany.
"every time I am viciously attacked they have their pronouns in their bio and a rainbow etc"
Yes, this is the revenge of the hierarchical fringe. Who view themselves as being a stranger to value and hate valuation. This produces an odd kind of inverse valuation and a cruel desire to visit their kind of craven unfulfillment upon others in the most extreme way humanly possible.
If you hate valuation, taking as much value from those who have it is likely your core driving force.
“Craven unfullfillment” well said. Soooo many suffer from this. And it causes great mischief and indeed evil in our societies because people are not working hard at developing themselves.
@@hammersmithdrums5532 and fair enough why bother? It's practically trendy to be under developed.
Some circles celebrate it. It's just all so empty and smacks of the inconsolable Nietzschian prophesy about the death of God. Talk about calling the ball.
That's a legitimately profound insight and well articulated. I would add; To make the bitterest maladjusted fringes of society the center of all discourse, and place them squarely in the driver's seat is insanity.
12:32 - Dr Peterson is a hero of mine for defending free speech. I am on a journey to fight for free speech largely because of this message right here.
I heard about JP for sometime from the “woke” perspective. And he was mentioned in some heterodox podcasts but NOT vilified. So I went to hear/see him for myself.
Astonishing that he could be so misrepresented and excoriated!!! Deep intellect and phenomenal communicator and such integrity. His YT materials are allowing me to rethink so many things.
Yes, humans need a religion in some form or another… if not in a church then certainly with a political stance. As a Baby Boomer I am appreciating more and more my life BEFORE the internet.
Wonderful conversation between two thinkers!
My thought from this is, it should be illegal to claim "Offence" without proof of actual damage to you. Great podcast!
The good thing about being offended is it doesn't bother anybody else and you can just get over it. But these days people want to get offended on other people's behalf and then get some sort of revenge out of it. Disgraceful if you ask me
I read a book when I was little called 'The Games People Play' that throws the idea that people communicate to express ideas completely out the window. It suggests instead people have games they like to play, competing and collaborating over psychological gains. Some players are really good, some games are rigged. And I got good at finding what games people are playing, not playing the ones I don't want to, and making my favourite games seem like the fun ones, so more people would play with me. That book made a massive difference in my life and its lessons are still useful. If someone is playing a victim aggressor game, the current fad is that its a group game but played one on one. Whoever goes first picks the victim character and declares they have lost, the other player is the aggressor and is broadly exiled from future games. I really don't like games where turn order disadvantages you, I'm not so naïve as to expect fair play per say, its more that those games and players try to trick you into playing with them, it starts before it starts, and goes on long after the interesting decisions have run out. Their existence is itself an energy sink, made worse by the high stakes modern players add. They're like fads though in that they don't stick around long; the whoever goes first wins style games tend not to go well for new players. Its actually nice that the victim aggressor game is a group game. If you can catch the screening question, to see if you're in their group or some other group, and deny them that clarity instead inviting them to your own game, they won't wanna play their game with you. As long as they're limited to the victim role, they can't play that game without sizing you up properly before playing, since the victim role requires losing and they don't want to lose too badly. Furthermore bad threat assessment is likely already an issue, as poor shadow integration is quintessential to the victim role, so playing with a stranger just becomes too risky if you dodge the screening question. I suppose if you catch the screening question, you could also claim the victim role right there and then, but if you're looking for the screening question, its probably because you don't want to play that game. In any case, it not a great game, blurring the play boundaries across games is dangerous and makes people less playful. I understand the appeal: the victim aggressor game is set up where the only outcomes are we win or they lose, but it just seems silly and no fun compared to better games with better players
I'm intrigued; do you have an example of one such personal instance that comes to mind?
This is a lot to take in. A benign? example is the tendency for people in conversation to not really listen to the other. So you wonder what is actually going on in the minds of the interlocutors? It comes back to JP’s claim that speaking is actually thinking out loud. Your interlocutor provides you with the outlet for your thoughts but, you are thinking so hard about convincing yourself AND the other that you have something meaningful to say, that you actually can’t properly assess their ideas. Add to this any negative personality traits and it’s little wonder seemingly baseless disagreements occur.
Thank you for the recommendation. The book seems interesting.
Ha! It turns out that I have that book. Now you've inspired me to actually read it.
Peterson's voice will be spread across America as his books, podcasts and reading list will join me on an ocean-to-ocean trip this summer. Thanks for helping me find a goal to drag myself towards, a cross to bear, and a metric to measure myself against.
Andrew, I love that you went incognito and hung out with the 'other side'. What a great idea to really experience first hand what they are about, learn their ideologies, temperament, arguments, attention spans, anger, and more. You have an amazing perspective. You gave me many ideas on how to infiltrate them, them being my family and some friends that don't really want to speak to me anymore since I learned the truth. They want me to 'talk to the hand' and in reality they put up their hand to my face when I am talking.
"Never argue with an idiot... they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience". This is why it's best to stay away from Twitter, as the number of intentional idiots is so high. But also as Mark Twain said: "“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference". So you're more likely to lose but even if you "win" the idiots won't realise it
Nice quotations. But unfortunately, the idiots and fools are in control of many Western governments now.
@@wiseonwords All?
D: "No Im Not getting the dark money for my politics"
JP: "thats what such a person would also say"
D: " If i get such dark money it must be quite dark because i cant see it"
And my man is saying hes not funny
When the comedians are the freedom fighters we look up to .... All the best Andrew and thanks Jordan.
Jordon, I work as an Osteopath and the chances of you seeing this are incredibly small, but I would absolutely love to see you have a podcast regarding pain and neurobiology as I am curious to see how the phenomena associated with pain overlap with wider religious and metaphysical phenomena.
What is the sound of one fish slapping?
"Metaphysical" always makes me chuckle.
Thank you for this absolutely brilliant conversation. I have the utmost respect for you both.
Thank you both for your raw honesty and bravery.
Glad I'm not on twitter. This has just made me more determined to stay off it.
Free speech is such a core tenet of our democracy, yet too many people (leftists) want to eliminate it. Without free speech, we are nothing. Why is why people like Jordan who advocate against mandated speech are such an inspiration to me and my UA-cam journey
It wasn't very long ago that the "right" wanted to do away with free speech. There are unintelligent people across the political spectrum. (You may argue that there are intelligent people that want to do away with free speech, but I would argue they are "educated" not intelligent.)
@@SeleckPlays Jerry Clower used to say ‘some folks have been educated beyond their intelligence’, which I think is clearly an accurate statement.
….Jordan seems to be attracting more of them, as of late. 😂
Wait, so it's Leftists that are banning teaching theories right now? Because I thought it was Republicans banning Critical Race Theory. Some of the laws are so vague that allow anything that will make someone feel guilty to be banned.
Some want to eliminate all of the "problematic" elements of our humanity, namely the higher intellectual functions, to ban the bad words and drum the good ones into us by repetition. North Korea is the truest realization of this experiment.
@@baigandinel7956 So in other words you want to be able to say whatever racist, sexist, homophobic, etc things you want without criticism (cause nobody in the US is looking to ban "problematic" words). Yet when Governments are ACTUALLY banning words you're silent. Some how I don't think NK is the way it is because you can't use racial slurs like you'd like.
Thank you Jordan for another incredible conversation, just purchased Andrew’s book
So grateful there are people like the two of you speaking out on these issues. Thank you!
This was a refreshingly good conversation
“Don’t anticipate the zeitgeist” wow, that was a very insightful comment. Great advice for any creative person.
"Don't TRY TO anticipate the zeitgeist." If you are creative YOU WILL anticipate it.
Focus on the things that strike you (and your audience) with meaning that provokes a physical response - especially if it's difficult or impossible to explain the reaction with words. Hone and purify something like that, and you may have a zeitgeist coalesce around your work.
Wow, interesting. As a German it surprises me you are using the German word "Zeitgeist"
@@____uncompetative interesting
@@friedrichb.616 In America it's a widely known term and is taught to most of us in secondary school, I think.
Thank you for having this conversation and having it being available to the public. It’s needed. It’s a start in reversing the current backwards ideology.
BOTA AGUARDA EM TODOS OS BANCOS ATE O UNICO DONO APRESENTAR SO ELES TEM QUE DAR CONTA AU POVO DOS GANHOS PUBLICOS PARA MANTER SUA SITUAÇÃO . O QUE HA EM FROM TEM DE ESTA ASEGURADO WHO . PRA TUDO SER REVISTO E CORRIGIDO . E SEPARADO DE ADMINISRAÇÃO PUBLICA . STORY E DE PARTICULAR E INDEPENDENTE . DE UM SO SOCIAL MIDIA #
What a beautiful meeting of minds, something worth listening to. Thank you both for your efforts
. Appreciated, Paul.
Outstanding - Great to hear from the front-line troops who fight daily to gain back ground, often at immense and intense personal cost. Much of the more indulgent belligerence we see from the fashionable-issue-of-the-day brigade has undefined but very real limits; even they don't know when they'll hit those barriers and find themselves at the end of their own sword. Exposing them and fighting back will become increasingly straight forward as more people see them for what they are, keeping that pressure up is more important now than ever before. Thanks to both of you for doing such a good job to date fighting for the side of the rest of us.
Great interview. I love JP's "ehs" at the end, so real and unpretentious.