Even easier fix: Rip down all the lattice tressles, and cut a large hole in the back wall or metal roof to change it from a "closet" to a space always open to free airflow from the great outdoors which the manufacturer specs say the conds MUST be installed in.
I had an engineer that lived on the water here in Florida and insisted on doing a water source system and running the condenser loop into the salt water under his dock.... I told him it wouldn't last and we needed to dig a well or go with a traditional air source split system. Much cheaper equipment wise and more reliable. Well he said no and paid the money, and a year later there was a leak in the loop due to barnacles, salt water, and sheeps head fish picking the barnacles off... He tried to sue me, but luckily I worded the estimate to say that I recommended a different scope of work and his way would probably fail. Engineers and Architects are morons, they need to do a few years in the field of each trade before they can even get behind a desk with their crayons.....
Calling us morons isn't really fair. I would say instead some of us underestimate the value real world experience has or over estimate our knowledge in our own field and how it applies to specific systems like HVAC. My father was a master plumber for over 40 years so he taught me the vast gap that can lie between blue prints and reality. I always try to do any work I may dabble in outside my area of expertise with the input of professional tradesmen and with lots of research ahead of time. I know I'm probably in the minority here thus justification enough for your comment. I just wanted to mention we aren't all like this.
@@hgbugalou I didn't mean to put every engineer or architect into that comment, and I apologize for that. I have worked with plenty that will rewrite prints at no cost if it doesn't work with my install needs. But I've also worked with plenty that refused to change stuff because it wouldn't work with the esthetics of the design. And also a few that down right refused to admit their idea wouldn't work. You guys have way more knowledge as far as structural and design factors, I just think that maybe there should be at least a few months on the job, in each field, to know what the trades need to easily complete their jobs. I could tell you about a few condo jobs that were a complete shit show...
That was CRAZY!!! I wonder how many different condensers he has had in that "cage" over the years? I am sure the installers never told him about the ventilation issue because he was such a good customer!!!
I came across something similar to that a couple years ago. I was called out to a fairly new condominium building that had all the air conditioners in the middle of the underground parking garage. There was probably 50 units spaced inches away form each other inside a cage made out of chain link fencing. There was a huge fan that was thermostatically controlled that would come on when the units would kick on and start putting heat out. I’m not Exaggerating they were literally no more than 2 inches apart from each other you would’ve had to climb over them to get around in there. If you could even find the unit you were looking for (they weren’t labeled) you wouldn’t even be able to get the electrical panel off!
I've seen similar in Panama City Beach. But no exhaust fan and the condensers are on platforms about 5 feet high so cars can get the hood underneath. You almost have to stand on someone's hood to get to the condensers. Of course the service side is always against a wall
Gonna have superheat on the evaporator and the condenser with that setup. I'm surprised the drier vent wasn't piped in there too. You should have sold them a 10 ton make up air unit to feed that area.
This made me remember a job I did about two years ago. AC swap out that turned out to be more complicated then it had to be. The new AC got relocated after there was room in the back when the owner tore town his little shed, the old AC was under his porch which was SEALED WITH BRICK, on a steep hill AND the pad was held up with 6 bricks on one side due to the hill! The only thing holding that in place was the lineset.
My brother works at a nuclear power plant, and that looks like exactly something an engineer that works with him would do. And even thought it doesn't work will argue with you about how it will.
What were the faults in the history? Ac only units? Not heat pumps? Replace those louvers in the garage area and add a wall fan, add a stat to bring fan on “on” temp rise.....units are in the shade....plus there. I’m betting there’s other issues going on....get the shit running and monitor the systems....could be a charge issue/ lack of.....I would love a challenge like this....
I had a customer who wanted to install a generac back up generator in a closet type room which was below a deck also. There would have been about 1 ft. of room on only one side if it was shoved completly against the back wall. I could not convince this woman that it was absolutly unsafe to put it there. The closet had a storm door on it, which she promised me she would open during a power failure. I called generac just to make sure there was not a listed and approved way to install it, so I wouldn't be lying to the customer. Aside from it being unsafe, I was thinking about how I would want to beat the installer to a pulp if I was the person servicing or repairing it. I told her to find someone else, because I wouldn't do it. So frustrating trying to get her to accept rational information
huckbeduck … Generator installs now have national code, unlike 10 - 20 years ago when it was just the mfgr's recommendation. The code spells out minimum clearance to everything, including doors, windows, and other building openings. (drier vent, Jennair vent, etc) This is to save people from themselves and reduce the liability of the installer. The average gen set makes more heat than a boiler or furnace so needs PLENTY of cool air. Installing one in a restricted space like this video would be like running your car at 70 MPH inside the garage. Also, any time someone says they will manually do something when the gen runs I ask if they will be there.... not at the store, not on vacation, not at the beach, not visiting a neighbor. Any automatic appliance needs to be installed so nothing gets in the way of the automatic features.
for a setup like that to ever have the remote chance of even working, the fans on the condensers themselves would have to be sealed off and ducted to the outside of that closet somehow to prevent re-circulation. And even then the exaust would have to be opposite away from the intake or again re-circulation. That setup he has there is a complete joke. Then there is the potential of static pressure caused by an improperly designed duct system for that, etc... Either way you look at it. Not a brilliant idea at all.
I'm in civil/environmental engineering... unless he printed his degree from the internet I have no idea how this looked even remotely reasonable ( you mentioned he is presumably a mechanical eng.). Basic fluid mechanics and thermodynamics classes should be more than enough to tell him that this is a no-no for his airflow demand vs. supply. It might have worked for one of those units closest to the outside but not three, especially with higher efficiency one being so far in the back where most of the heat is now trapped... incompetent or a fraud for sure. Had a good laugh though lol.
Agreed, any educated engineer of any field would know not to do something like that. I mean the proof there is a lack of any formal engineering knowledge here is that attic fan. You have three condensers with approx 32in deep pitch blades blades and probably close to 1hp fan motors. The attic fan is what 1/10th HP? Do the math! P.S. I'm an EE myself but know far better than to do something like this.
Up here in Detroit everybody is an engineer! I've seen things like this quite often. The worst one was in a new office building. All the condensers were in an passively ventilated attic crawl space. They did this so they could run them in the winter time. Of course in the summer it got up to about 300 degrees up there and nothing would cool!
Might make it work if they put a raised floor in there and use the lower floor for the fresh air plenum and above the floor as the discharge plenum back outside. Using frames for a suspended ceiling, plywood tiles could be installed so the floor can be removed for service. Will need a diverted at the opening to the outdoors to prevent recycling the air through the units.
I had a customer with four 5 ton Trane XL enclosed by an 8’ tall brick containment wall with maybe 10” on each side for him to obscure looking at them. The recirculation and operating pressures were so so bad we ended up taking the tops off and installing a 36” spiral pipe on each machine to the height of the wall. Knocked a good 80-100 lbs of head pressure off of each condenser depending on ODT.
I always hated dealing with engineers. They think that since they have a piece of paper that says the be smart, they know how everything should be done. SMH, what a mess. The contractor that installed those should have his licence pulled.
As someone with a degree in Engineering. The reality is Engineering is a MASSIVE field. So an Engineer experienced and knowledgeable about one thing can often be clueless about another. The second issue is that engineers are by their nature problem solvers and the problem with that is when they are constrained by regulations, standards, and budget can easily solve themselves into a problem.
My grandfather was a mechanical engineer and he decided to build a house. He bought every book he could find on thermal mechanics, structural engineering, electrical work, etc, read them until he understood, and then built a solid and clever design that I live in nearly 50 years later.
I have come across home owners who have put something over n outdoor unit thinking its gonna help it until I tell them no this shouldn't be like this but for a company to actually put these in a closet n knowing that is not correct is ridiculous.. I have been out of work with a knee injury so these videos have been an awesome source to keep my head in the game just had to add that in .. lol
Had an engineer with a very similar set up. They must have known each other lol. The company I worked for at the time moved them all outside. At least he listened to us.
The funniest part to me, besides the whole mess, would have been easier to wire the motor to just run backwards with a switch instead of flipping the bitch. I love it. I can see how the thought process formed... but he should know better on heat dissipation calculations and the juice not worth the squeeze. You'd need a Hell of a fan or fans to move the air in and out of that room to compensate and at that point... just why?
Funny this video comes out today. Just yesterday I saw the same thing with 2 condensers in a shed, but they had a wood duct that went from the condenser fan to the top of the shed...
Hey Anti DIY HVAC. a/c guy here. Fan of your videos. The volume is always really low though. Can you turn it up on future videos. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Looks like the condensers were there from the beginning (or the predecessors at least), then someone got the idea to build a deck and an extra garage. I wouldn't mind a roof over them to protect them from the weather a bit, but high enough to not cause air flow issues. I'm a bit curious how it looks like today though.
It's sheet metal and two sealed motors and the electronics are contained within. What "weather" has you that worried? The occasional freak baseball sized hail storm? They're made to be outside and withstand the weather. While copper and aluminum will corrode really it'll take them a freaking long time unless hosed down with acid. They're made to reject heat (or absorb heat if heat pump) to the outside air. The sun beaming on them or rain or snow won't hurt them. Heat pumps are slightly different story since they get colder than outside air so a cover isn't a terrible idea a defrost mode is better just for ice formation.
@@etherealrose2139 In the southwest they cover them to keep the sun off of them. All sides are open though. The sun doesn't hurt them but down here it lowers efficiency on those 90+ degree days. mainly used in restaurants for walk ins or whatever, not so much homes. I haven't lived anywhere else so thats why im mentioning it.
They don't use traditional ac units because of the high heat, they use swamp coolers that utilize a water curtain. Simply speaking, if you want to have an entire ac in an enclosed space, you have to have it water cooled, whether its geothermal, a cooling tower, or waste water.
I have seen 1 were they added on to the back of the house and ended up with same kind of crap but It was only 1 condenser condenser with a big shop fan blowing the hot air out of the space when I mentioned moving the condenser homeowner said been working that way for years,o well
That was shocking. One time I put up and 5 ft lattice wall, one wall, in front of the AC Unit to block the late afternoon sunshine. That made the AC Unit work twice as hard. The was no overhead obstruction. This engineer needs to stop thinking and just hire a good HVAC man.
The units reject heat hotter than sunshine. Heat is what breaks down all equipment but these are made to handle high heats and... well... reject it into the atmosphere. The sun shining on it won't hurt it, even in the desert southwest. Though it is nicer to be installed in a shadier location the refrigerant (here) is getting above 120 to reject the heat. As long as it is hotter than ambient air, it'll do that just fine. Blocking airflow means less rejection means much more heat than designed to handle which means higher current draw, oil breakdown, component failure. It's cool in SC (I know Ted claims it's hot at a whole 90 lol and it is I lived in the South but the desert is a whole nother type of heat.) So the refrigerant shouldn't be getting as hot because it simply doesn't need to. But block the airflow here or there or in Minnesota and you have the same issue everywhere. It's why you don't bend all the fins with a pressure washer lol.
Need to sell him geothermal units if he wants the units inside a shed and relatively quiet. Of course, being on top of a hill the drilling might be expensive. He would probably go for it
I am Chemist that worked 18 years in Chemical Engineering lab and have background in Thermodynamics, two phase fluids, fluid and mass transfer and decided to get my 608 as I love this work-I was 90 % hands on and not much design as I found it boring once you know it. The guy that did this is a BUTCHER and and arse clown. I have actually see PhD types that did stupid stuff like this in PROCESS. I started in 1990 and in 99 they were taken over by another by another company. The clowns were let go and from there on was a fun job. This video is SO funny I watched it three times. In my industry we called "superheat" and "subcool" "above the critical P/V" or "below the critical P/V" curves. One of my colleagues actually measured refrigerants physical properties and was on of first certified when 608 came out. Your videos are great and beyond belief.
Just curious did you end up removing them??? I had the same issue with a major mex food chain owner in az he had 4 units in the middle of his house with just lattice on one side rest walls and roof chocking on there own cond exhaust ... they didn't like too see the condensers wah .......so I ended up walking away from doing anymore to the house as they didn't want to relocate them
A mechanical engineer and he can't see that he should spec out an exhaust fan that flows at LEAST equal cfm to the btu output of the combined 3 systems and HOPE it sorta works
We have 2 -7.5 ton package units in a basement of an old building in downtown KC. The condenser fan motors have to be replaced every other year, I’m surprised they haven’t lost any compressors
All I want to know is the complaint, what it's actually doing? Because I don't see the huge issue. i get that it's in a closed space but the only issue I see is bigger fan or open more ventilation. but building a box I've seen and it works very well
More ventillation.... a lot more ventillation. Trying to solve a problem the installer created by accepting this bespoke crap. The manufacturer warranty will still be void.
I got to a customers house and could not find the cond. unit. He said it was inside the addition. I opened the door and it felt like a dragons breath hitting me. He had matched the siding and the roof of the house to cover the unit. I told him to tear it down or turn off the AC it would never work in a closed area like that. Then I left lol engineers are a funny group. What a dumbass. Thanks for the memory.
I have seen to a place I was visiting condensers under staircase works just fine, they do have duct on top of the condensers to wall, so dumps hot out side and louvered door for fresh air :)
ayotochtli you mean it pulled the air to cool the condensers from inside? Thus turning your gorgeous split unit into effectively a really big and expensive single-hose-portable unit?
Went to a call one time, customer built a room for the outdoor units and some rolling trash cans. It was only 2 feet taller than the units and 5 ft from the front of the units. Head pressure was crazy Some people just don't think things through
Hey. Fellow tech here. The name of your channel says it all and I agree! Are you aware the ads before some of your videos are for mr cool diy units?not sure if you have any control over that but I thought you should be aware of it. Like the videos and keep them coming
I vseen worse, at one house lady who bought the house, decided that condenser was too ugly, so she had handyman build the stone walls on all 4 sides of the condenser, and put wooden cover on top of it, about 3" from the fan, and placed bunch of flower pots on it, to make it pretty, and she was very upset that unit " very expensive and only couple of year old" didn't work! When I told her the reason, she wouldn't have non of it, and told me that her cousin " who also in the construction business" told her that it should be a problem, and I should make it work without moving the stone barrel that she built around it, because " she paid lots of money to build it"!
lmao, when are people going to learn that condensers aren't literally covered in grid fins for cosmetics!!! Its because they require a huge amount of ventilation to work! This is maddening!
I was just wondering who in the hell was doing what sort of drug when they thought that was a good idea. But, you answered everything by saying he was "an engineer."
Yeah, no. Never seen that before. Would love to see the temps in that after a couple hours of run time. I'd walk away too. That's a challenge that might not ever work. In theory nothing is impossible (cfm in cfm out) but that's a time sink for sure.
I take offense to this partially. I am an engineer myself. HOWEVER I am an engineer in my specific field. not HVAC so if someone that is trained and knows HVAC, I am going to sit back and listen. But thats just me. But as an engineer, that closet idea is a joke and no way in hell it would ever work even before the concept was thought of. Even if you had a high CFM blower system, you cant guarantee fresh air in that setup, some of the heated exaust will get sucked right back in. Disaster
I watch HVAC videos mainly for knowledge and entertainment value. Not an industry I am in, however I do enjoy learning the aspects of it but I will never master it. Its the "know it all" types of engineers I cannot stand. I am a computer electronics engineer. That's it. Anything else I am as stupid as the next guy. ;-)
Thanks for sharing. You could also approach it like this:. As one engineer to another you substitute the word technician for engineer i e you're a HVAC engineer. That put you on the almost the same page as him.
I have seen far worse recently, in Savanah GA in the tourist area along the Historic Buildings of River St,, dozens of Condenser units stuffed next to each other up under tight areas of walkways. The local temps had to be 20f to 30f higher then ambient (already damn hot) conditions.
I've seen before where people had replaced a through the wall condenser with a regular condenser in a closet. I wanted to put a blower assembly on top in place of the condenser fan . And duct it to the outside. But I didn't.
Needs exhaust fan, to remove heat inside that closet. Could also add exhaust to each louver openings with stat set at 90*indoor bring them on. Had to install one on a garage,with stat built custom cars wanted it cooler. They do work well, Ted
Gotta love Engineers. They get 20 minutes of HVAC in college and they're suddenly experts. You should have told the rocket scientist that propeller type fans are not supposed to be pushing against a resistance. Squirrel cages were designed for that. I had an electrical Engineer install his own night setback for the heating and cooling system. It was a box about 2 ft square and had 8 R8222d relays in it. He even made a wiring diagrahm for it. It didn't work so he called us to fix it. Sold him a digital setback stat, and then went back to correct his setup and wiring, because he forgot to learn to read directions while in college, back in 1970's. He got a little perturbed when I let my apprentice fix his wiring, but he did pay the bill.
Oh please thats nothing!! Come to NYC and see how some buildings put the condensers in the little pits in front of there building with the grates over top and they are sandwiched together but at least they are ducted to the top lol
The only time I've seen anything like that was in Grow Ops before weed was legal and even then there were 2 large supply fans to move air in and out of the room.
As a (retired) HVAC engineer for a major manufacturer, I have seen this sort of thing pushed onto installers by homeowners who don't want to see or hear the condensers. Sorry, read the I/O manual for the many reasons this will void the warranty. I approved a few where the ventilation scheme kept the condensers near ambient. The variable speed unit: If it got over 140 degrees in there: all kinds of electronic failures.
They clearly are outside! There’s just a little deck built over them these days. And a little lattice to hide the unsightly. And then the car port that the band aid ventilation pulled from was fitted out as a garage.
How long has it been working like that though not like they were added yesterday. It might not be correct but it might have been like that for 30 years.
OMG I think I've seen it all now I'm not no HVAC person when it comes to houses but I do know that the exhaust off of one of those units is enough to overheat itself in that confined space
Un freakin believable. I know where there's a small, maybe 60 unit, condo on the beach in Panama City Beach that has all the condensers under the building in what can barely be called a crawl space. It's always 130+ under that building in the summer. Also the salt air eats them up every 3 to 4 years if they run that long. Just crazyness
Certainly there is some crazy reason this was requested (and you know the installer said all the things you just said too). My guess is sound level. You should sell him on one of the VRF units where there is only one building mounted condenser...
Unreal. I don’t care if it’s HVACR, building maintenance, or IT, you see an obvious clusterf*** like that, walk away and don’t even look back. I have made the mistake of going along with a clusterf*** - it never works. Somebody has to be blamed though, and “I’m an engineer” will never accept responsibility
I worked with a engineer that had a doctorate degree. Dumbest man I ever came across but the guy was brilliant. Couldn’t carry on a conversation worth a shit with common people. He always had a pencil and paper and always wrote formulas when you talked to him. His first name was Richard but known to us as Doctor Dick.
most engineers are idiots with titles. very few are good engineers. the same can be said for any trade on the planet. im sure you arent at the top of yours.
Easy fix. Place one more A/C unit outside to cool the closet. Problem solved. lol!!
Bwahaha!
😂🤣😂
Even easier fix: Rip down all the lattice tressles, and cut a large hole in the back wall or metal roof to change it from a "closet" to a space always open to free airflow from the great outdoors which the manufacturer specs say the conds MUST be installed in.
Lol this homeowner would think that’s a great idea
Relocate or walk away
I had an engineer that lived on the water here in Florida and insisted on doing a water source system and running the condenser loop into the salt water under his dock.... I told him it wouldn't last and we needed to dig a well or go with a traditional air source split system. Much cheaper equipment wise and more reliable. Well he said no and paid the money, and a year later there was a leak in the loop due to barnacles, salt water, and sheeps head fish picking the barnacles off... He tried to sue me, but luckily I worded the estimate to say that I recommended a different scope of work and his way would probably fail.
Engineers and Architects are morons, they need to do a few years in the field of each trade before they can even get behind a desk with their crayons.....
Calling us morons isn't really fair. I would say instead some of us underestimate the value real world experience has or over estimate our knowledge in our own field and how it applies to specific systems like HVAC.
My father was a master plumber for over 40 years so he taught me the vast gap that can lie between blue prints and reality. I always try to do any work I may dabble in outside my area of expertise with the input of professional tradesmen and with lots of research ahead of time. I know I'm probably in the minority here thus justification enough for your comment. I just wanted to mention we aren't all like this.
This 9999999999999999 times.... they are and there is just a disconnect from paper to the field.
@@hgbugalou I didn't mean to put every engineer or architect into that comment, and I apologize for that. I have worked with plenty that will rewrite prints at no cost if it doesn't work with my install needs. But I've also worked with plenty that refused to change stuff because it wouldn't work with the esthetics of the design. And also a few that down right refused to admit their idea wouldn't work.
You guys have way more knowledge as far as structural and design factors, I just think that maybe there should be at least a few months on the job, in each field, to know what the trades need to easily complete their jobs. I could tell you about a few condo jobs that were a complete shit show...
@@hgbugalou What a moronic response
I am not a HVAC guy but I still watch your videos!
That was CRAZY!!! I wonder how many different condensers he has had in that "cage" over the years? I am sure the installers never told him about the ventilation issue because he was such a good customer!!!
The units did look a mite newer than the ventilation system, don’t they?
I came across something similar to that a couple years ago. I was called out to a fairly new condominium building that had all the air conditioners in the middle of the underground parking garage. There was probably 50 units spaced inches away form each other inside a cage made out of chain link fencing. There was a huge fan that was thermostatically controlled that would come on when the units would kick on and start putting heat out. I’m not Exaggerating they were literally no more than 2 inches apart from each other you would’ve had to climb over them to get around in there. If you could even find the unit you were looking for (they weren’t labeled) you wouldn’t even be able to get the electrical panel off!
I've seen similar in Panama City Beach. But no exhaust fan and the condensers are on platforms about 5 feet high so cars can get the hood underneath. You almost have to stand on someone's hood to get to the condensers. Of course the service side is always against a wall
Gonna have superheat on the evaporator and the condenser with that setup. I'm surprised the drier vent wasn't piped in there too. You should have sold them a 10 ton make up air unit to feed that area.
No way he's moving those compressors, he's convinced they should work right where they are. Wish we had an update.
The video is called “the closet condenser moved and repaired” there was an update.
This made me remember a job I did about two years ago. AC swap out that turned out to be more complicated then it had to be. The new AC got relocated after there was room in the back when the owner tore town his little shed, the old AC was under his porch which was SEALED WITH BRICK, on a steep hill AND the pad was held up with 6 bricks on one side due to the hill! The only thing holding that in place was the lineset.
Paint looks good on them, though!
LOL Yes !!
My brother works at a nuclear power plant, and that looks like exactly something an engineer that works with him would do. And even thought it doesn't work will argue with you about how it will.
What were the faults in the history? Ac only units? Not heat pumps? Replace those louvers in the garage area and add a wall fan, add a stat to bring fan on “on” temp rise.....units are in the shade....plus there. I’m betting there’s other issues going on....get the shit running and monitor the systems....could be a charge issue/ lack of.....I would love a challenge like this....
I had a customer who wanted to install a generac back up generator in a closet type room which was below a deck also. There would have been about 1 ft. of room on only one side if it was shoved completly against the back wall. I could not convince this woman that it was absolutly unsafe to put it there. The closet had a storm door on it, which she promised me she would open during a power failure. I called generac just to make sure there was not a listed and approved way to install it, so I wouldn't be lying to the customer. Aside from it being unsafe, I was thinking about how I would want to beat the installer to a pulp if I was the person servicing or repairing it. I told her to find someone else, because I wouldn't do it. So frustrating trying to get her to accept rational information
huckbeduck … Generator installs now have national code, unlike 10 - 20 years ago when it was just the mfgr's recommendation. The code spells out minimum clearance to everything, including doors, windows, and other building openings. (drier vent, Jennair vent, etc) This is to save people from themselves and reduce the liability of the installer. The average gen set makes more heat than a boiler or furnace so needs PLENTY of cool air. Installing one in a restricted space like this video would be like running your car at 70 MPH inside the garage. Also, any time someone says they will manually do something when the gen runs I ask if they will be there.... not at the store, not on vacation, not at the beach, not visiting a neighbor. Any automatic appliance needs to be installed so nothing gets in the way of the automatic features.
for a setup like that to ever have the remote chance of even working, the fans on the condensers themselves would have to be sealed off and ducted to the outside of that closet somehow to prevent re-circulation. And even then the exaust would have to be opposite away from the intake or again re-circulation. That setup he has there is a complete joke. Then there is the potential of static pressure caused by an improperly designed duct system for that, etc... Either way you look at it. Not a brilliant idea at all.
I'm in civil/environmental engineering... unless he printed his degree from the internet I have no idea how this looked even remotely reasonable ( you mentioned he is presumably a mechanical eng.). Basic fluid mechanics and thermodynamics classes should be more than enough to tell him that this is a no-no for his airflow demand vs. supply. It might have worked for one of those units closest to the outside but not three, especially with higher efficiency one being so far in the back where most of the heat is now trapped... incompetent or a fraud for sure.
Had a good laugh though lol.
Agreed, every engineer has core.
Agreed, any educated engineer of any field would know not to do something like that. I mean the proof there is a lack of any formal engineering knowledge here is that attic fan. You have three condensers with approx 32in deep pitch blades blades and probably close to 1hp fan motors. The attic fan is what 1/10th HP? Do the math! P.S. I'm an EE myself but know far better than to do something like this.
Could be a Trane testing room
Hahaha I love the summer and winter mode selection!
Up here in Detroit everybody is an engineer! I've seen things like this quite often. The worst one was in a new office building. All the condensers were in an passively ventilated attic crawl space. They did this so they could run them in the winter time. Of course in the summer it got up to about 300 degrees up there and nothing would cool!
were you able to bake chicken?
Might make it work if they put a raised floor in there and use the lower floor for the fresh air plenum and above the floor as the discharge plenum back outside. Using frames for a suspended ceiling, plywood tiles could be installed so the floor can be removed for service. Will need a diverted at the opening to the outdoors to prevent recycling the air through the units.
Condenser Jail....?
lmao
And compresser morgue maintained by the runcap bandit
maybe people steal them at night?
Yeah
I had a customer with four 5 ton Trane XL enclosed by an 8’ tall brick containment wall with maybe 10” on each side for him to obscure looking at them. The recirculation and operating pressures were so so bad we ended up taking the tops off and installing a 36” spiral pipe on each machine to the height of the wall. Knocked a good 80-100 lbs of head pressure off of each condenser depending on ODT.
That is a great solution for a bad design!
When I saw that Contraption I knew it was an engineer and you confirmed it ..🤣😅
I always hated dealing with engineers. They think that since they have a piece of paper that says the be smart, they know how everything should be done. SMH, what a mess. The contractor that installed those should have his licence pulled.
AGREED on the "contractor" who installed them there for a paycheck and to force the manufacturer with warranty claims they shouldn't pay.
You really get a bunch of crazy calls man, thanks for posting vid
Nothing wrong here. Just needs some Freon.
na na just a little freon that's all!!
Claudius - especially if its r-22!!
Lol...!!!!!
The answer is more compressors
You mean Freezon right?
As someone with a degree in Engineering. The reality is Engineering is a MASSIVE field. So an Engineer experienced and knowledgeable about one thing can often be clueless about another. The second issue is that engineers are by their nature problem solvers and the problem with that is when they are constrained by regulations, standards, and budget can easily solve themselves into a problem.
Cragified sad thing is... this guys degree is in mechanical.
My grandfather was a mechanical engineer and he decided to build a house. He bought every book he could find on thermal mechanics, structural engineering, electrical work, etc, read them until he understood, and then built a solid and clever design that I live in nearly 50 years later.
HAHAHA, mechanical, wow!, must have skipped the mass transfer lectures, for a year! @@TedCookHVAC
All my years of HVAC work, I have never seen a hack job that bad. He must have dreamed those ideas up. Lol
I have come across home owners who have put something over n outdoor unit thinking its gonna help it until I tell them no this shouldn't be like this but for a company to actually put these in a closet n knowing that is not correct is ridiculous.. I have been out of work with a knee injury so these videos have been an awesome source to keep my head in the game just had to add that in .. lol
Had an engineer with a very similar set up. They must have known each other lol. The company I worked for at the time moved them all outside. At least he listened to us.
I've seen some insane installations never seen that before
I got called to a condenser in a basement.
What the hell
All you need is one more fan from harbor freight and you'll be fine
Three Mile - turn around. He has taken Thermodynamics? Summer and winter setting. Priceless!
The funniest part to me, besides the whole mess, would have been easier to wire the motor to just run backwards with a switch instead of flipping the bitch. I love it.
I can see how the thought process formed... but he should know better on heat dissipation calculations and the juice not worth the squeeze. You'd need a Hell of a fan or fans to move the air in and out of that room to compensate and at that point... just why?
Funny this video comes out today. Just yesterday I saw the same thing with 2 condensers in a shed, but they had a wood duct that went from the condenser fan to the top of the shed...
Hey Anti DIY HVAC. a/c guy here. Fan of your videos. The volume is always really low though. Can you turn it up on future videos. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Looks like the condensers were there from the beginning (or the predecessors at least), then someone got the idea to build a deck and an extra garage.
I wouldn't mind a roof over them to protect them from the weather a bit, but high enough to not cause air flow issues.
I'm a bit curious how it looks like today though.
It's sheet metal and two sealed motors and the electronics are contained within. What "weather" has you that worried? The occasional freak baseball sized hail storm? They're made to be outside and withstand the weather. While copper and aluminum will corrode really it'll take them a freaking long time unless hosed down with acid.
They're made to reject heat (or absorb heat if heat pump) to the outside air. The sun beaming on them or rain or snow won't hurt them. Heat pumps are slightly different story since they get colder than outside air so a cover isn't a terrible idea a defrost mode is better just for ice formation.
@@etherealrose2139 In the southwest they cover them to keep the sun off of them. All sides are open though. The sun doesn't hurt them but down here it lowers efficiency on those 90+ degree days. mainly used in restaurants for walk ins or whatever, not so much homes. I haven't lived anywhere else so thats why im mentioning it.
Sometimes you just gotta walk away.
So he just needs bigger fans then. What happens when an outside unit is in Arizona in the 110F summer? That space is fairly well open IMO.
They don't use traditional ac units because of the high heat, they use swamp coolers that utilize a water curtain. Simply speaking, if you want to have an entire ac in an enclosed space, you have to have it water cooled, whether its geothermal, a cooling tower, or waste water.
I wouldn't let the "Engineer" who put that mess together build me a ham sandwich!
I have seen 1 were they added on to the back of the house and ended up with same kind of crap but It was only 1 condenser condenser with a big shop fan blowing the hot air out of the space when I mentioned moving the condenser homeowner said been working that way for years,o well
That was shocking. One time I put up and 5 ft lattice wall, one wall, in front of the AC Unit to block the late afternoon sunshine. That made the AC Unit work twice as hard. The was no overhead obstruction. This engineer needs to stop thinking and just hire a good HVAC man.
The units reject heat hotter than sunshine. Heat is what breaks down all equipment but these are made to handle high heats and... well... reject it into the atmosphere. The sun shining on it won't hurt it, even in the desert southwest. Though it is nicer to be installed in a shadier location the refrigerant (here) is getting above 120 to reject the heat. As long as it is hotter than ambient air, it'll do that just fine. Blocking airflow means less rejection means much more heat than designed to handle which means higher current draw, oil breakdown, component failure. It's cool in SC (I know Ted claims it's hot at a whole 90 lol and it is I lived in the South but the desert is a whole nother type of heat.) So the refrigerant shouldn't be getting as hot because it simply doesn't need to. But block the airflow here or there or in Minnesota and you have the same issue everywhere. It's why you don't bend all the fins with a pressure washer lol.
Need to sell him geothermal units if he wants the units inside a shed and relatively quiet. Of course, being on top of a hill the drilling might be expensive. He would probably go for it
I'm sure he could more than afford it.
that space has to be absolutely cooking in the summer!
If your going to the trouble of fitting 3 out door inside a shed, would of been better getting larger ducted ac unit to run all the AC in the house
I am Chemist that worked 18 years in Chemical Engineering lab and have background in Thermodynamics, two phase fluids, fluid and mass transfer and decided to get my 608 as I love this work-I was 90 % hands on and not much design as I found it boring once you know it. The guy that did this is a BUTCHER and and arse clown. I have actually see PhD types that did stupid stuff like this in PROCESS. I started in 1990 and in 99 they were taken over by another by another company. The clowns were let go and from there on was a fun job. This video is SO funny I watched it three times. In my industry we called "superheat" and "subcool" "above the critical P/V" or "below the critical P/V" curves. One of my colleagues actually measured refrigerants physical properties and was on of first certified when 608 came out. Your videos are great and beyond belief.
Just curious did you end up removing them??? I had the same issue with a major mex food chain owner in az he had 4 units in the middle of his house with just lattice on one side rest walls and roof chocking on there own cond exhaust ... they didn't like too see the condensers wah .......so I ended up walking away from doing anymore to the house as they didn't want to relocate them
Hahaha. I like that guy. He's a bloody genius at keeping his ac units clean. He knows just enough to be dangerous.
That homeowner’s “mechanical room” should get the top award of the year!
Yes, same goes for his method in parking vehicles in the driveway and the organization of the garage.
A mechanical engineer and he can't see that he should spec out an exhaust fan that flows at LEAST equal cfm to the btu output of the combined 3 systems and HOPE it sorta works
We have 2 -7.5 ton package units in a basement of an old building in downtown KC. The condenser fan motors have to be replaced every other year, I’m surprised they haven’t lost any compressors
How do you stand the heat to replace them? Wow.
The tech that installed it, probably warned the customer and when it Didn't work, tech told them see.
All I want to know is the complaint, what it's actually doing? Because I don't see the huge issue. i get that it's in a closed space but the only issue I see is bigger fan or open more ventilation. but building a box I've seen and it works very well
More ventillation.... a lot more ventillation. Trying to solve a problem the installer created by accepting this bespoke crap. The manufacturer warranty will still be void.
Lol looks like something out of a dumb and dumber movie. Damn i have seen it all lol. Great video.
Lol so true lol. Maybe this guy is a distant cousin or something lol.
It was the "gas man" they picked up when they were driving to Aspin! :)
Oh boy like Steve lav would say “it ain’t know Taj Mahal mama”
I got to a customers house and could not find the cond. unit. He said it was inside the addition. I opened the door and it felt like a dragons breath hitting me. He had matched the siding and the roof of the house to cover the unit. I told him to tear it down or turn off the AC it would never work in a closed area like that. Then I left lol engineers are a funny group. What a dumbass. Thanks for the memory.
I have seen to a place I was visiting condensers under staircase works just fine, they do have duct on top of the condensers to wall, so dumps hot out side and louvered door for fresh air :)
ayotochtli you mean it pulled the air to cool the condensers from inside? Thus turning your gorgeous split unit into effectively a really big and expensive single-hose-portable unit?
Went to a call one time, customer built a room for the outdoor units and some rolling trash cans.
It was only 2 feet taller than the units and 5 ft from the front of the units.
Head pressure was crazy
Some people just don't think things through
The gable fan CFM is probably around 800-1000
Hey. Fellow tech here. The name of your channel says it all and I agree! Are you aware the ads before some of your videos are for mr cool diy units?not sure if you have any control over that but I thought you should be aware of it. Like the videos and keep them coming
I've seen this before around the beach, but the condenser is much smaller. Not good in that current setup.
I vseen worse, at one house lady who bought the house, decided that condenser was too ugly, so she had handyman build the stone walls on all 4 sides of the condenser, and put wooden cover on top of it, about 3" from the fan, and placed bunch of flower pots on it, to make it pretty, and she was very upset that unit " very expensive and only couple of year old" didn't work! When I told her the reason, she wouldn't have non of it, and told me that her cousin " who also in the construction business" told her that it should be a problem, and I should make it work without moving the stone barrel that she built around it, because " she paid lots of money to build it"!
lmao, when are people going to learn that condensers aren't literally covered in grid fins for cosmetics!!! Its because they require a huge amount of ventilation to work! This is maddening!
I was just wondering who in the hell was doing what sort of drug when they thought that was a good idea. But, you answered everything by saying he was "an engineer."
Did u move them out
The homeowner would be able to hear my laughter for 5 minutes as I drove away
You See the c/u like that a lot in fl. I worked in one that was in the attic space behind a false panel.
Thanks for this video, I laughed out loud. Maybe that engineer didn't study the Laws of Thermodynamics?
Or perhaps he thinks they don't apply to him?
Qin=Qout
Yeah, no. Never seen that before. Would love to see the temps in that after a couple hours of run time. I'd walk away too. That's a challenge that might not ever work. In theory nothing is impossible (cfm in cfm out) but that's a time sink for sure.
its always the engineers that cant understand why things like this wont work but look great on their sketches
Hate working for any so called engineers, they will never believe you, know more than you, I would not do any warranty work in that situation.
I take offense to this partially. I am an engineer myself. HOWEVER I am an engineer in my specific field. not HVAC so if someone that is trained and knows HVAC, I am going to sit back and listen. But thats just me. But as an engineer, that closet idea is a joke and no way in hell it would ever work even before the concept was thought of. Even if you had a high CFM blower system, you cant guarantee fresh air in that setup, some of the heated exaust will get sucked right back in. Disaster
I watch HVAC videos mainly for knowledge and entertainment value. Not an industry I am in, however I do enjoy learning the aspects of it but I will never master it. Its the "know it all" types of engineers I cannot stand. I am a computer electronics engineer. That's it. Anything else I am as stupid as the next guy. ;-)
Out in california there probably are a ton. However I pretty much am a lone soul where I am at, boonies in the mountains of north carolina.
THEtechknight common, but it can flip arround! Got to give him some credit😅
Caught myself saying what idiot designed this one to many times when it registered nobody can be that stupid they are doing it on pupose.
Thanks for sharing. You could also approach it like this:. As one engineer to another you substitute the word technician for engineer i e you're a HVAC engineer. That put you on the almost the same page as him.
That bad on the good techs lol!
I have seen far worse recently, in Savanah GA in the tourist area along the Historic Buildings of River St,, dozens of Condenser units stuffed next to each other up under tight areas of walkways. The local temps had to be 20f to 30f higher then ambient (already damn hot) conditions.
I've seen before where people had replaced a through the wall condenser with a regular condenser in a closet. I wanted to put a blower assembly on top in place of the condenser fan . And duct it to the outside. But I didn't.
The truly sad part is that an installer actually put them there when they should have known it wouldn't work.
*did know.
The checks were good, so.
I think they were originally uncovered then someone thought it was wasted space and built on top of it
Whats the rong if i put my ac on Shade and protect ac from sun and Rain ?
Needs exhaust fan, to remove heat inside that closet. Could also add exhaust to each louver openings with stat set at 90*indoor bring them on. Had to install one on a garage,with stat built custom cars wanted it cooler. They do work well, Ted
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There's a fine line between insanity and genius.
he clearly stepped over it.
@@OcRefrig this guy poll volted over that line 😂
Thats exactly why we call engineers...rough drafters
Gotta love Engineers. They get 20 minutes of HVAC in college and they're suddenly experts. You should have told the rocket scientist that propeller type fans are not supposed to be pushing against a resistance. Squirrel cages were designed for that. I had an electrical Engineer install his own night setback for the heating and cooling system. It was a box about 2 ft square and had 8 R8222d relays in it. He even made a wiring diagrahm for it. It didn't work so he called us to fix it. Sold him a digital setback stat, and then went back to correct his setup and wiring, because he forgot to learn to read directions while in college, back in 1970's. He got a little perturbed when I let my apprentice fix his wiring, but he did pay the bill.
The engineer's fix usually solves their problem at hand, but most times causes a problem for the next guy.
Oh please thats nothing!! Come to NYC and see how some buildings put the condensers in the little pits in front of there building with the grates over top and they are sandwiched together but at least they are ducted to the top lol
What about the constant shower of filth down into the pits? I bet they don't last long.
What part of SC you working out of was that Paris mtn.
K B yes it is.
Yeah that's a crazy guess @ 3:34 a $100 bathroom exhaust fan from Lowe's moves 200 cfm. That fans a LOT bigger!!!
Well I am not an HVAC guy but even I know this is Jack to s***!!! Funniest thing I have seen yet when it comes to HVAC systems LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Bet he cuts a hole into the wall and gets a bigger fan 😂
damn right he will. lol
HaHaHa!
He was missing a few 0s on his air flow calculations
was an 18 seer now a 8 LOL
The only time I've seen anything like that was in Grow Ops before weed was legal and even then there were 2 large supply fans to move air in and out of the room.
Came across a condenser once, it was buried and had plywood to cover the hole. The guy said he didn't like the sight of the thing.
!
It would work with 6 24" 5hp tubeaxial fans and some ductwork.
As a (retired) HVAC engineer for a major manufacturer, I have seen this sort of thing pushed onto installers by homeowners who don't want to see or hear the condensers. Sorry, read the I/O manual for the many reasons this will void the warranty. I approved a few where the ventilation scheme kept the condensers near ambient. The variable speed unit: If it got over 140 degrees in there: all kinds of electronic failures.
and i'm pretty sure that on the units we can read "for outside use only".
They clearly are outside! There’s just a little deck built over them these days. And a little lattice to hide the unsightly. And then the car port that the band aid ventilation pulled from was fitted out as a garage.
How long has it been working like that though not like they were added yesterday. It might not be correct but it might have been like that for 30 years.
Those are new units, definitely haven't been there for long.
OMG I think I've seen it all now I'm not no HVAC person when it comes to houses but I do know that the exhaust off of one of those units is enough to overheat itself in that confined space
I have been doing HVAC for 20 years and I have never seen no stuff like that wow
Un freakin believable. I know where there's a small, maybe 60 unit, condo on the beach in Panama City Beach that has all the condensers under the building in what can barely be called a crawl space. It's always 130+ under that building in the summer. Also the salt air eats them up every 3 to 4 years if they run that long. Just crazyness
Certainly there is some crazy reason this was requested (and you know the installer said all the things you just said too). My guess is sound level. You should sell him on one of the VRF units where there is only one building mounted condenser...
He’s lucky those scroll compressors come with a 10 yr warranty. Never seen anything like that.
What's the update on this call ?
ua-cam.com/video/42YQjSvaGT4/v-deo.html
Thank YOU! @@TedCookHVAC
Unreal. I don’t care if it’s HVACR, building maintenance, or IT, you see an obvious clusterf*** like that, walk away and don’t even look back. I have made the mistake of going along with a clusterf*** - it never works. Somebody has to be blamed though, and “I’m an engineer” will never accept responsibility
Probably just the outdoor fan motor spinning backward. Hahahaha 😂😂😂😂😂
I worked with a engineer that had a doctorate degree. Dumbest man I ever came across but the guy was brilliant. Couldn’t carry on a conversation worth a shit with common people. He always had a pencil and paper and always wrote formulas when you talked to him. His first name was Richard but known to us as Doctor Dick.
That's as bad as having the units under a deck. Love your hair BTW. :-)
Engineers can be the biggest idiots, and arrogant in their utter ignorance.
most engineers are idiots with titles. very few are good engineers. the same can be said for any trade on the planet. im sure you arent at the top of yours.