Vinland Saga Season 2 Backlash | A Hinged Rant
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- This was a good exercise in trying to communicate and explain things that I see as basic , but apparently don't exist in the lens of others. You'd think it'd be pretty simple but it does require a lot of argumentation , plenty of ifs and buts and clarifications , which is why there's a lot of text in this one , regrettably. I wanted to stay on point and not take too long but also cover any gaps in arguments that I could see. Came out a bit messy and unfocused , but it was supposed to be a rant anyway.
Music:
The Museum - Andrew Prahlow (Outer Wilds)
Checking in - Lena Raine (Celeste)
Loop Blues - blinch (Loop Hero)
I'm so glad you tackled the "I miss the old Thorfinn" complaint. If he wasn't present in most of season 1, much of the same events would probably still happen. He plays no role at the climax of the entire arc, and is blatantly portrayed as an ignorant child. He's still an interesting character, but he's not important in the context of his own story. Some people just consumed the story, saw the flashy fights(which are dope btw), and didn't give it much thought. Some viewers don't like the narrative Vinland takes because it's shown through new means, even though it's saying the same things as in Season 1
I think there may be some people who also don't like it because it holds a mirror up to its audience. So many people are consumed by rage and hatred and live their lives that way. Like yeah, probably 95% of people watching this show have never been to war or watched a loved one get killed, but they don't have to be to have their lives ruled by hatred. Just look at the American political landscape today. Vinland Saga holds a mirror up to those people (as it did me) and goes "hey, maybe oppressing and destroying those you hate won't actually make your life, or anyone else's life, better. Maybe there is a way to solve disputes and live fulfilling lives without calling for the erasure of those who disagree with us." And I think, for many, this is a really REALLY hard truth to accept. Because it's not a simple answer. It's much easier to try and vilify or kill those that do us wrong, and our fight or fight instincts only make this option more enticing. It's hard to look at someone who's hurt you, or someone you loved, at any level of severity and go, "I forgive you." Or "I want to have a conversation with you." Because those experiences bring such deep seeded trauma. And that trauma provokes that fight or fight instinct. And trying to go against that, breeds anxiety in our minds. Makes us question our choices. Which leads to insecurity. We start to ask ourselves "did I make a mistake? Am I the problem?" And that's incredibly terrifying. But we HAVE to ask ourselves those questions. Because it's true, violence only breeds more violence, and hatred only breeds more hatred. So when these people see Thorfinn's story, they reject it. Because they're afraid and insecure of their own failure. They don't want the hard answer. They just want the easy one. Even though the hard answer will bring them the peace they're truly looking for.
Fight or flight* autocorrect doesn't like the word "flight"
Your videos are sincerely some of the most comprehensive yet concise analysis of anything related to vinland saga that i know of. Was thoroughly entertained throughout the video even though it contained no action. Keep it up.
i was getting bored thanks for putting the tiktok sensory video up for me vinhard :)
For real though great video, I'm glad you honed in on the problem where both lovers and haters of season 2 still seem to completely misunderstand and mirepresent season 1. Lot's of overlap with the people who say "season 1 was more shonen while season 2 is seinen" while having no clue what those terms actually mean. Maybe I'm being elitist lol.
Ironically I really hated edgy Thorfinn😂
Thorfinn is basically an annoying sidekick character in the Prologue, with Askeladd taking the lead.
By far, the worst take on Season 2 is that Arnheid is wrong for trying to escape her slavery, and Ketil is justified for beating Arnheid. Do I even need to explain what's wrong with this?
Really really love this video. You deserve way more attention. I think you articulated your argument very well. Action is cool, but it isn't necessary to tell an engaging story. And vinland saga was never about the epic fights. It was practically beating you over the head with its message in the first season as well. But the few scenes of action we did get (combined with the excellently written political drama) were so over the top and exciting that people just forgot or didn't notice what the story was trying to say. Even thorfinn has several moments where he's questioning his actions and reflecting on his father's teaching. And you can see it in his eyes in those moments. The entire time he KNOWS his father is right. But just like he said when Thors was going off to fight with Floki, "youre lying, youre going off to fight in a war right now." That is Thorfinns mentality throughout the entirety of season 1. Because Thors did fail. He failed to find a way to resolve conflicts with his words and heart and get away from warfare. He failed to be able to get Floki to leave him and his village alone. He never figured out how to become a true warrior. Which lead to Thorfinn questioning his teachings. But through repeating the exact same mistakes as Thors, Thorfinn began to realize the truth of what his father was trying to tell him. And now its Thorfinns turn to try and do what his father could not. Its time for Thorfinn to become a true warrior.
I like to think that in some poetic sense, thors became a true warrior the moment he dropped that sword. because that moment was possibly the most pivotal moment of his life. It probably takes the most strongest of will, that is to have the power and courage to drop one's sword in possibly the most decisively moment of one's life.
I'm an anime-only (at least for the moment) who recently watched Vinland Saga for the first time about a month ago, and I really enjoyed it. It was the kind of show that made me want to delve deeper into the characters' psyches and motives and the themes of the story, so I was excited to read/watch fanbase discussions on the characters to help sift through and clarify my own thoughts on the series, but I've been largely disappointed by the lack of substantial discussion about Vinland Saga. I guess this will sound harsh but most of the analyses or discussions I found on the series seem fairly surface-level and didn't have the level of depth looking into the story that I wanted.
That's why I'm really glad I found your channel; you really understand the characters and the themes of Vinland Saga and I really agree with the majority of your points and your take on the series. And I finally found someone who takes a deeper look at the story and its characters and discusses this series on the level of depth that I was looking for.
I'm very new to the Vinland Saga fanbase, but it's weird to me that Season 2 is thought of as "slow", since while I loved both seasons, Season 2 was easily better than Season 1 in my opinion. The prologue was great of course, it's just that I kept waiting for Thorfinn's character arc to progress in Season 1 but his character arc is largely stagnant for almost the entirety of Season 1 (until Askeladd dies), and Thorfinn's character really only starts to progress in Season 2, and it felt so satisfying to see that after like 24 episodes of waiting to get to that payoff. Season 2 took the story in exactly the direction I'd been hoping for while I was watching Season 1, so it's weird to me that so many found it disappointing or unexpected for the story to go that route.
Anyway, great video; I really enjoyed it and I look forward to more. Keep up the good work! 👍
My most toxic comment ever is below, please allow me to indulge myself for this brief moment:
I had a housemate ask me which piece of media makes me the most toxic, and I, somewhat quickly, replied: Vinland Saga. Not a MOBA, sports team or my opinons on UA-cam videos. The amount of elitism within me rarely flows beyond a big reddit post or comment. I, selfishly, think the anime should have stopped after ep 3. Why? Because that is the point at which I started reading the manga. The anime did its job, it got me to experience the story it was marketing for (this is a very cynical and crude perspective, but I'm being elitist here). Pull up the drawbridge! Stop the rest of the commoners from getting in! (Apart from the ones *I* like and find the opinion of valuable.)
Inevitably, as you increase the number of viewers, you increase the number of voices. And then you get more new voices, voices that are not up to date at the forefront of Vinland Saga Analysis, like myself. I don't want to see another stupid post about how you Vinland changed your life, or how Askeladd is cool, or how 191 made you cry. Shut up. I'm not seeing anything new here. There is no way I can imagine that you aren't doing this for fake internet points (and when I do it for said points and views, its valid because I'm at the cutting edge!).
I didn't make my Hild video way back when just because dumb haters on reddit that can't intuite character growth without dialogue and are unable to read facial expressions and draw conclusions about a character's current mental state, no, it was because I saw the most boring and dumb reasons for people explaining to other people why they are dumb for not liking her! "She is a mirror to Thorfinn, bro!" and "Its like a parallel, duuuuude." It is so surface level and you are conceeding that she is boring and the same all the time, but that is ok because "she is a deep character" for like ... one reason? Have you not spent the time actually looking into her character motivations, reading into why she is the way she is not only for meta, thematic reasons, but instead the in story explaination of her character. How does this examintation of her character then feed into your analysis of her role and place in the story? Dig deeper, don't be lazy and write out the first defense that comes to mind.
What got me the most about S2 was all the cowardly manga readers that were scared anime onlies wouldn't like their series. Why? What will they do? Make stupid posts on twitter and tiktok? We have a reddit with great manga discussions? Are you that insecure about your own tastes that you need it to be validated by the masses or some UA-camr with a large influence? Grow up. Wait, you friends will make fun out you? Maybe you should get better friends.
Now, because of your cowardise, I have to read your stupid complaints about the complaints that I'VE NOT SEEN!!! You are fighting shadows as far as I am concerned. What have anime onlies contributed to the discussion of Vinland Saga other then giving you validation? Has there been something said by Gigguk or MoistCritcal that has not been said elsewhere?
As ranting and contradictory as I have been in this comment, one thing about this manga fandom that I love is that we all go dormant apart from the week after a chapter release. We have other shit to do (like making YT videos, stupid!) and we go touch grass. The slow nature of the release allows for the hype beasts with their fast food takes to be filtered out and for the analysts to come in and digest the meal in full, the meal that is so ridculously small that you have to savour every bite, because you'll eat it in 5 bites if you aren't careful.
Rant and persona aside, I think this video is one that is very cathatic as a long time fan that is deep in the trenches. It spells out every little detail that can be annoying about boring critisms and rebuttles around the series and disects them so that it all is laid bare. It has crystalised in video what I've thought fleetingly, something I try not spend to much time on (or the elist will come out).
Thank you for coming to my TedTalk
Great video. You know, I've been following you channel for quite some time, and honestly, I think I prefer the way you present the story and it's themes to the actual presentation of the manga. I don't know why but something about it rubs me the wrong way. But I always admire when people take it upon themselves to try and analyze something in it's entirety. You know, funnily enough I've been thinking about doing some sort of "Mega-analysis" of my own for some years, and I think this video right here might have given me the motivation to finally do it, lol. I've read Vagabond an embarrasing amount of times myself, and I also think people have a lot of general misconceptions and whatnot, about the series, similar to what you point out here.
Also, assuming you've read it, what is your opinion on Vagabond? In my opinion, it actually has some very similar ideas, yet it does completely different things with them. It's pretty fascinating, actually.
They're obviously pretty similar in themes but the end goal is completely different , although I've only read Vagabond once (will get to it again someday) so don't trust me too much on this. Vagabond as I see it is concerned with self improvement , enlightenment if you want to call it that , it does sometimes look at society but anything it learns from that it applies inwardly. Vinland looks at various individuals at a deep level but then uses that to form and examine societal structures. They're gonna do different things. I don't think it's a coincidence that farmland is early while farming arc is late in their respective stories.
If you think about a story constantly and feel like you just have to communicate that , making videos is very fulfilling (after you get through the recording-editing hurdles the first time) , it makes the voices stop.
I wanna make clear (and I will in next analyses too) that what I present is what I see in it , I'm not discussing the ideas the story is discussing , I'm talking about what the story is saying and how it is saying it , intent matters to me a lot. And probably the videos will change a bit as we move in the series because of that. More talking about why the story is making certain decisions and why it is presents them like that , and also the various hangups people have with it , it won't just be talking about themes for 90% of it. That's the reason I see stuff like the 3rd arc the most exciting things to talk about.
@@vinhard5868 Yeah, you're definitely right that Vagabond is much more inward focused than Vinland. Also, "enlightenment" is an apt term, because I'd call Vagabond a Buddhist story, not with Buddhist themes, like how Vinland or Berserk have some Christian undertones. No, the message is full on Buddhist. Obviously, I'd assume most people reading Vagabond in the Western World might not exactly be familiar with some of the things a person in Japan would already understand. Vagabond is criminally underanalyzed here, Vinland was too, but it seems like that's changed in the last few years. I need to make sure Vagabond doesn't fall behind here! Oh yeah, and I've been through the whole recording-editing business before, I think I'm going to write it down, on a website or something...
What anime-onlys probably didn't understand. Season 2 isn't slow because 'it has no action'. It's slower because it drags 44 chapters across 23 episodes. (Not including episode 24).
Season 1 did 54 chapters across 24 episodes, and it was still slow and bogged down with filler. Season 2 would inevitably be slower given the chapter to episode ratio.
Would you say that Thorfinn's journey and development is the same as Zuko's form the last Airbender?
Both are hotheads who start their journey's performing "evil" actions with "honor" as their motivation (Also their father was the reason they start on that path but for opposing reasons).
Both reach rock bottom where they see the harm they cause (Book 2 of avatar and the farmland arc).
And slowly on their own see the error of their ways. While they both receive help on that journey (uncle Iroh for Zuko and Einar for Thorfinn) they arive on the truly honorable decision on their own.
Yo VH, how was your trip to Japan? 🇯🇵
All I'll say is I'll definitely be going there again , and same goes for everyone that came with me. Especially now that I know how to move about the place more confidently there's quite a bit of freedom (at least in Osaka and Tokyo where I went). Only bad thing is the heat and humidity are crazy if you visit during summer , if I didn't live in Greece already I don't know how I would bear it.
@@vinhard5868 Awesome! I'm glad y'all enjoyed it 😁
I need to visit Japan myself, and personally thank Yukimura-sensei for changing my life with his manga ❤
More like Midland saga. It was never good to begin with, so.
Got him!! That Yukimoron fellow really doesn't know how to write a story, eh?