How Disney Plus Hurts the MCU
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 тра 2024
- This video is sponsored by Brilliant. Go to brilliant.org/Midnight/ and sign up for free, the first 200 people that go to that link will get 20% off the annual Premium subscription.
Disney Plus has been pumping out the Marvel shows...but should it? In this video I break down why I think the MCU may hurt its casual viewership in the long run.
MERCH: standard.tv/collections/capta...
Music by Epidemic Sound (www.epidemicsound.com)
Follow me on Twitter: / midnightcap
Follow me on Facebook: / midnightcap
Special thanks to Andrew Elliott (Stalli111: / stalli111 ) for editing this video!
Yea I think so, the MCU used to be an event and now it feels like homework
Thats why moonknight,daredevil works more
@@marufjaved6551 yea that's true idk I'm at the point now where I want the Disney plus shows to fail just so we can focus on the movies because that's where the MCU is at its best and more coherent
Damn as a huge mcu fan, I hate how accurate that statement feels
@@WoahJustTakeItEasyMan I mean bro don't get me wrong I'm a huge MCU fan too I mean I'm just a huge marvel fan period and it fuckin kills me that I have to say that especially since I like Ms marvel and she hulk as characters but like let's keep it real midnight is right the Disney plus is making the MCU dull and now making us do homework that's fuckin bad especially if your a business who wants to be accessible to the mainstream audience
Ain’t nvr heard something more true especially if u wanna keep up with the Easter eggs, references and cameos
I don't think it has anything to do with disney plus, but with the closeness of the release dates. If we got like 2 movies and one show a year I think people wouldn't feel this way.
This is partially a consequence of how COVID basically disrupted the release schedule and now it feels like everything is so close together because of how they were in varying stages of development before, and now are just coming out in quick succession
It used to feel more like fun stories they wanted to tell. Now it feels more like content. Oh, and "the Message"
THAT PART! the release dates
Good lordy!! I had to cram Moon Knight before MoM JIC lol
Idk what to expect!!!
I enjoy seeing 4 MCU movies a year. I'm not sure if that can constantly be substained though without the public getting tired of it.
@@leyenda6149 Iron Man 2 and 3, Thor 2, AoU, Ant-Man, and Doctor Strange felt like “fun stories” they wanted to tell?…..
Idk man, they get flack for just being popcorn movies that don’t stand for anything, and then they get flack when they do.
There's a reason why i say the winter soldier is the best MCU movie, you can watch it without knowing anything about the MCU and you'll still enjoy it as an action movie
Captain America : First Avenger too.
@@RealManasBose all phase 1 movies felt different even phase 2 was good but since phase 3 everything started feeling the same
GOTG too, actually. The Power Stone could easily be replaced by another Macguffin and it’ll still be the same movie.
You do realise that you can say that for almost any MCU movie? The majority of the movies are made in a way that appeals to the general audience, its part of the reason why its so popular.
moonknight too
I think the biggest takeaway point you made is the problem with the tv shows not making "episodes"
What makes that format unique and special, is the ability to create an identity surrounding a self contained episode that yes, does need to be consumed in chronological order, but is made in a way that is remembered as "that episode".
Think of any tv show and pick a favourite episode. Now think of an MCU show and try to even remember the name of an episode, let alone a moment that was specific to the episode it was in.
These post endgame MCU shows are more like mini movies stretched out
I can only do this with WandaVision's first half just because the episodes were set in different environments from different years of sitcoms lol
This is why WandaVision is the better show...
For Wandavision there’s the “I love Lucy” episode and the “Halloween” episode.
For Loki my favorite was the “escape the end of the world” episode
@Jean Sanchez but the most successful tv shows have individual adventures per episodes instead of just splitting one overlying story over a season. idk if that makes sense, but lucifer, brooklyn 99, csi, home and away, friends and so many more successful tv shows use the first, with overlying arcs, instead of the second
moon knight episode 5
I think this was inevitable.
The MCU became so big by the end of Endgame, that Marvel now needs to create a lot of stories for a lot of characters.
well with the cost of WANDAVISION than costed 250 millons..you can build 5 SEASONs Of the punisher
@@FULANODETAL and WandaVision was better than any of them 😌
@@Fantallana sorry 2 seasons of the mcu punisher are better.even iron fist..
Heheh, interesting choice of words.
@@Fantallana A little bit slow and underwhelming to my taste but to each their own
I definitely feel exhausted over the MCU
I haven't seen any of the MCU shows except Wandavision because I haven't felt excitement I once had back in the era of Endgame
Do yourself a favour and watch Loki, one of the best things Marvel has done. Can't remember who said it, but they were spot on: 'Imagine Doctor Who, but good'
Moonknight was good bc it has nothing to do with the overarching mcu plot. the world building is unique, the twists are super interesting, and Oscar Isaac is just amazing in his role
just because u arent excited doesnt mean u shouldnt give a chance to the shows....watch one episode of each of the shows, and just continue the ones which u find interesting
Loki and Ms Marvel so far are great
Wanda vision didn’t even pick up till episode 4 and ended on a meh finale. But not the worst.
The MCU will eventually grow so big, that it'll start to collapse. In 15 years, newer audiences won't remember Phase 4 (nor the earlier ones), and that'll have a big impact in continuity. Plus, many of their main stars will be hitting 60 years old, and long gone. They will have to reboot everything, in the end, just like the comics have time and time again. And who knows if that will work.
Marvel so far has been achieving everything the comics have done in movie form, but this will be their ultimate obstacle. How it bodes for them remains to be seen
I think they're going to do secret wars and then Feige will step down and they'll do a universe reboot.
@@jasperdweck7426 how will anyone be up for a universe reboot
@@anotherhappylanding4746 when it gets too big to follow the plot anymore
@@jasperdweck7426 you really think when it's too convoluted people will instantly be up for another 20 + film reboot? When I've just finished playing skyrim a massive game, I don't instantly want to replay it again due to how big it is
I loved how moonknight felt like it was it's own thing, separated from the other characters and mcu events. I used to like how everything was connected, when it felt grounded in something, the endgame (ha) was clear but now there's so many new things going on it's exhausting. I love marvel and some of it's characters will always be important to me but watching the new movies sometimes feels like a task, because if dont watch it i wont understand the movie i actually care about.
i loved moon knight for the same exact reason! it’s like the only piece of marvel that hasn’t mentioned the blip or thanos, it was refreshing. it also makes me excited, how moon knight will eventually fit into the grand scheme of things. Shangchi, the Eternals, and Ms. Marvel already have obvious ties to the greater universe, but it’s hard to predict how Moon Knight will. That’s what makes it so exciting.
To be fair, out of the recent series TFaTWS is the only one that requires "homework". Wandavision and Hawkeye don't require knowledge of AoU or Endgame for example. Well, Hawkeye does a little but even if you have seen everything until that point, having Yelena show up just breaks the show. Loki, while entertaining, is just a mess, trying to find continuity only breaks the show. Disney just can't keep it together.
@@101Futile I mean if we’re talking about fairness… if you have access to Loki you have access to the entire MCU except The Incredible Hulk and the Spiderman trilogy
@@mikeydowikey4140 yeah, I don't think interconnectivity is bad, in fact I like when individual stories come together. Loki however makes the 2012 version of Loki behave the same way as Ragnarok/Infinity War Loki which degrades all the character development.
@@101Futile Disagree; the two Lokis need to be viewed as different characters. Infinity War was the end of original Loki's story arc. He proves his loyalty to Thor and Asgard, and dies with honor.
I think cutting back on the amount of new content is the right move. However, I also think Disney is worried about trying to capitalize on their investments before the actors age out of their roles.
Oversaturated superheroes crap, they need to stop.
Recessions makes Disney panicked because their investors lose money in recessions.
And that is why I have argued Marvel should just go fully animated
@@zZiL341yRj736 Anime was also saturated and video games are also saturated.
Shut up with your hypocrisy.
Peter Pan flashbacks
I’ve actually really began to understand this feeling recently, my girlfriend wants to watch a lot of the marvel films with me because of how much I love them, but it’s a massive ask to get her to go through like 30 films just to get to my favourite, so I’m now much more aware of how difficult it can be for somebody to try and get into the MCU
What’s your favourite?
@@london6492 you didn't ask me but I will answer anyways, mine is a tie between Iron Man and Avengers Infinity War, and my favorite super hero is Thor.
@@london6492 Spider-Man No Way Home because I’m a massive shill, which is a massive ask for her to watch not just because of how many MCU films come before but also the older Spider-Man films, however I truly believe that despite Spider-Man being my favourite Guardians of the Galaxy is the best film in the franchise
Any prospective girlfriend of mine has sat through, in the first 1-2 months, all of the Marvel films until endgame, and then breaking bad, all 5 seasons. Other than that, she needs to watch Vanilla Sky, and that’s all just to put in an application.
bruh you think that's bad... try being a comic nerd and having people ask you where to start (for any title)... there is no easy answer lol. That's a full on discussion that can take an entire day to figure out depending on the titles they're interested in.
As an 80s comics reader, I was over the MCU after Endgame. The critics are right, what works in one medium gets tired real quick when you keep going back to it regularly. This is what it driving readers away from Marvel & DC Comics, the lack of Competent storytelling & respect for the audience. Marketing will not save the Comics Medium nor the MCU. The Dark knight franchise showed that a complete story can be told. The audience will get tired of the decompressed storytelling of the MCU, just like they did in Marvel Comics at the beginning of the 2000s. The comics aren't generating great stories anymore just filler content, No one wants to create products for someone else to make millions or billions without any meaningful compensation.
I dunno, I think some good stories are still being made the comics. But they're getting buried as Marvel and DC prefer to promote bloated crossover events instead the more heartfelt character stories.
I agree, the MCU is definitely starting to suffer from the bloat that prevents me from reading any major comics. You're expected to know so, *so* much. I think I liked it better when it was just movies, and I could easily catch up in a weekend if I missed a few.
As a big fan of comics it's a medium that works best when you're more interested in characters in a universe rather than how the universe progresses as a whole.
If you want to read Batman, it's pretty easy to read Batman and stories centered entirely around him with no worries about what it might connect over to on a grander scale.
Crossover events in comics only ever have two purposes. To boost sales of books by making fans of one character buy another's book or to reset the timelime which let's writers start from scratch and try reinventing characters.
It's much easier to enjoy than the current state of superhero movies where you can never watch a single one without feeling like it's leading into 5 different things. There are comics like that but they're rarely as well received or remembered as just [Author + Character/Group]: "Hey did you read Grant Morrison's run on X-Men" "Yeah dude that shit slapped. Did you read John Ostrander's take on Suicide Squad though?" "I did but I like the more chaotic version Joshua William did recently"
I honestly think the mcu is heading towards a point where its own lore is going to ruin itself, kinda ironic that the MCU started off so strong partly because of how it borrowed from the Ultimate comics very well might collapse for the exact same reason as the Ultimate comics did
Edit: you mention this in the video lol
@@jamesjackson6563 So you left because MCU isn't like the comics? Seems just better to me, not using something that was already done, going the original way
I actually prefer 1610 to 616. Am I weird?
@@jamesjackson6563 100% agree good on ya 👏
@@egg0534 just because it's original doesn't mean it's good.
Convoluted and over complicated storylines have been problem with DC and Marvel comics forever now. Thing is, they are comics, relatively cheap to make. MCU is anything but cheap.
I felt multiverse of madness suffered from this pretty hard. While I liked the movie, I had the persistent feeling in the back of my mind that the whole thing was just meant as a huge set up. It has me concerned about Marvel movies having an unreliable scale like the comics often fall into.
Word, aside from a few elements and characters, it didn't really feel much like a Doctor Strange sequel. Feel like there was more hype for the cameos and new characters over Strange and his story
i actually feel the opposite. I feel like while the movie referenced some things from earlier stuff, the central thing was the plot and the characters. Even the cameos literally die 5 minutes after being introduced, which i was really happy to see.
The movie feels like they ran out of time
It's so funny I've had friends who felt like there weren't enough cameos or that it didn't build up to anything new. It had its flaws but I liked that it was mostly a stand alone film.
My gripe with Doctor Strange is that it felt a little too short.
The issue with there not being enough cameos is only an issue because all the leaks and stuff raised peoples expectations way too much and the name Multiverse also had people convinced that we’d solely be focussed on seeing different heroes in different universes and that kinda silly because where will the Doctor Strange story fit in all of that.
Now when the big ensemble movie comes like secret wars then I’ll definitely be hyped to see a truck load of characters in that setting
Covid defined played a huge part. I felt like they released 2 years worth of content in 12 months. Sometimes I think about wha the original release plan was and how clear and probably more we’ll paced it was.
And to add to what you said, I think the shows and movies’ releases overlapping is killing the hype for some of them. Like for Moon Knight for example the chatter for the finale was minimal since it happened when Multiverse of Madness released.
I don't think it actually matters... the MCU is established now, and people are going to watch the movies regardless if they've seen all the prior material, simply cuz they're "popular".
I can 100% guarantee you that if you took an audience poll of your average movie theater for Love and Thunder, only a small percentage of the people could tell you all the events leading up to that movie.
For the casual fan, it's just a "fun thing to watch".
I literally have a group of friends that aren't invested in the MCU, but will still watch the movies with me cuz they're fun and popular.
The Disney live actions movies are mostly DOG SHIT, but they still made a killing at the box office, cuz it's fucking Disney. You attach "Lion King" to a title, people are GOING to watch it.
I think lowering the volume of MCU content is a pretty good call, though I think the straight-to-streaming model for lesser known properties that the company doesn't have as much faith in is also a decent idea.
Maybe instead of making every one of these D+ series a multi episode season, just make a smaller budget movie for the platform instead. Hawkeye definitely could have been done in 2 hours. Then make like one or two of those a year along with the 2-3 full movies. Idk if that helps the oversaturation problem necessarily but it'd definitely help the D+ exclusive stuff feel a little less dragged out.
I almost wish “House of Harkness” was a Theatrical Movie instead of a Series
Although I generally agree with this statement, I can only imagine that there are egos at stake with "just giving Hawkeye a straight to streaming movie".
The only problem with your method is that the disney plus series allows them to get clicks on twitter and across different youtube videos and articles. I m pretty sure people talked more and for longer about Wandavision than Dr Strange 2 for ex
Good point
I love the idea of MCU B Movies
what I struggle with a bit is figuring out how everything fits together. Each show/movie is introducing a new cosmic big idea which doesn't feel connected to everything else, For example how do the celestials fit in within the TVA , shang-chi, and now the multiverse. There's so many new concepts and storylines being introduced that I'm not even sure which to focus on. And it also feels like it makes shows like FATWS and Hawkeye not feel as important because they aren't involved in anything like this and its hard to imagine those characters would even stand a chance in any of these future fights.
I honestly kinda like that everything might not converge at a *single* point. Controversial opinion: I don’t need a character like Moon Knight to ever even meet a character like Kang. I think it could work some mini-convergences that might only crossover a handful of characters. Like a Thunderbolts convergence with the more grounded characters, a Skrull convergence with the more space oriented characters, etc…
to a certain extent this is a good sign. the MCU has grown to become something closer to its comic book business origin: a loosely connected superhero IP farm that allows individual writers to explore their own ideas. everything does not and should not have to serve one single goal. feeling lost may also mean feeling diversity.
But i guess i do see where you are coming from: when one cosmic big idea has just been introduced and barely explored, why should we dive into another one right after it? well, i guess i still have faith in marvel that those ideas will eventually get explored in the upcoming decade or so. We have grown past the age where we have to treat every comic book adapted media entry as a definitive take. Each entry can and almost certainly will spinoff into its own mini franchise and i do think that us fans will get completeness and connectedness in the long term.
All these cosmic ideas are bubbles which exist in the same universe. They dont actually converge anyway. It's just good to know what bubble of the universe a show or movie is going to focus on, that way you can forget about the irrelevant movies and shows.
It's like this in the comics. Characters just go through different bubbles without barely any mention of the previous bubbles. I think this type of storytelling is a lot more expansive and better for world building.
Well, the connection between the TVA and the multiverse should be obvious if you watched Loki's season finale's post credit scene, TVA was the entity that kept the sacred timeline intact, and with Loki's choice at the end, the sacred timeline is no more and the multiverse birthed. The celestials will touch upon how the universe is maintained and how it came to be. They aren't enemies or allies per se, it depends on the context. In the Eternals movie's context, I don't think they are setting up the celestials to be a potential big threat in the future, but as a tool to expand the cosmic side of the MCU. Especially because you can't set up celestials to be a threat and not make the big threat Galactus, and given how they seem to be setting up Kang to be the new Thanos, we won't be seeing Galactus in a pretty good time I'd say. Shang-Chi I have absolutely no idea tho, my comics knowledge didn't allowed me to make any links between what Shang-Chi stablishes and what I am interpreting to be Phase 4's future path.
This is the only reason people complain. Cause Fiege didn’t give us a 10 yr map this time
I think the MCU's numbers will start to go down, Marvel will realize what's happening, and scale it back to 3 releases a year, counting shows and movies, and the numbers will pick back up. Although, I do remember phase 2 starting out semi-rough and directionless as well.
Phase 2 def had its issues like Tony Stark quitting Iron Man, only to return to the mantle in Age of Ultron without a good reason.
@@JamesLawner Probably money. He got paid a lot. And probably stuck around once Iron Man got more development
But it's true he didn't want to play iron man for a while
Or add a previously type thing
@@thomascaruso7597 the actor bruh
I feel like this Phase 4, despite being good enough, is the living proof of why MCU television and MCU cinema being too connected is not as good as it looks. When MCU tv shows started, the fans begged for more connections, but I feel like having few connected allowed more freedom and creativity, and now, with so many connections, the MCU is biting more than it can chew, when the MCU had more restrictions it allowed more ways to adapt and create the great serialized story that was the Infinity Saga(Phase 1-3), but now with so many resources they are creating too much content and too little creativity. I still have faith that they have a plan and it will pay off in the long run, but still I believe many opportunities are being wasted and Phase 4 is mostly only good enough when it could be way better.
I really wish Dr. Strange 2 stuck with the small cast of Dr. Strange 1. I was really exited to see Mordo as the main villain.
"but still I believe many opportunities are being wasted"
Say what?
"but now with so many resources they are creating too much content and too little creativity"
That aint' true.
The early MCU Disney+ shows had confidence issues, straight up pulling characters from the movies (Wandavision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, Hawkeye) to headline the shows. But this year's slate (Moon Knight, Ms Marvel, She-Hulk) shows that they start to become more adventurous. Moon Knight was successful and can be enjoyed without knowing anything about the MCU.
I completely agree with the video, and i think that's a big reason why i enjoyed moon knight so much. The show itself was great, but also it being a completely new character that i hadn't seen before (and not "replacement" characters like Yelena for Black Widow and Kate Bishop for Hawkeye, where it's obvious that they will fill the exact same role as the person they are replacing, just as a different, younger actor). The fact that i could watch it so easily, without having to worry about it being interconnected to the eleven thousand movies and shows or thinking that i'm missing something was such a breath of fresh air.
I agree. Moon Knight had me hooked. There was no connection.
Yeah i believe this is the way, having characters that we got know from the movies to be pulled from the medium to series format would make people miss of the progress of that chractrs i mean, a loooot of people didn't understand why Wanda was a villain in MoM
I definitely think that if Disney insists on milking Marvel for all the ip they have, keeping the tv shows separate while still highly engaging like Moonknight is the way to go.
I think another thing to consider here is something that's affecting film and TV at large, even outside the MCU.
Many TV shows are leaning closer and closer to cinematic narratives, while many blockbuster films are becoming serialized with endless sequels. That is to say, lots of shows are becoming broken up pieces of larger narrative arcs while many films are becoming episodic pieces of a never-ending story.
This is a dual-edged sword I think. It makes films and their subsequent sequels engaging, and it allows bigger stories to be told in TV formats, however, it also bogs down both formats in needing to stay current with whatever series or franchise you are following.
I will echo the top comment in that I think the biggest issue here is burnout by devoted fans like yourself and myself - the release dates are so close and the market so saturated in content that it's hard to sit and enjoy something before you have to move on to the next thing. It's like a never ending buffet. Not to say the food isn't delicious, but I'm on my 4th plate and about to puke.
This is the best explanation of the root of the problem that I've seen. Episodic movies means you need to watch every movie beforehand to 'get it', and narrative shows means you need to watch it to understand why a characters motivation in the movies has changed since the last film. Episodic shows means you can just jump out if it ain't your thing and it won't affect the movies too much, and narratively contained films means that you can watch it and rewatch it whenever and experience the full story.
I think the reason Disney are doing this is that they are focusing more on FOMO driving people to watch rather than quality. If you don't watch all of She-Hulk then you'll be asking questions during the next movie when Hulk turns up and everyone calls him He-Hulk, and no-one wants to be the guy asking questions. Unfortunately, this only works if there is the promise of a big event that you'll want to be caught up on in the future. If the movies continue to disappoint then it will be easier for casual viewers to jump ship, and harder for them to jump back in.
This should be the most liked comment ever, because its the BINGE-WATCH CYCLE!!!
Agreed, I've come to realise (from an actors perspective) that the MCU perhaps combines the best parts of both TV (if your show is lucky enough to get picked up you have a dependable job and schedule so planning your life and career is a little easier) and movies (getting to go to the big screen with larger production and potentially making large scale stories) and somehow the combo feels worse. Sure you could have a dependable role as a superhero but it could be being the main of one movie, cameo in another two years later, be a part of an ensemble the next year, disappear for another three years and then come back and in the process...turning down other projects and potentially having to bulk up again and that too as the vex for MCU is going down the toilet and everything is a blue screen. It seems exhausting.
A few thoughts: Losing Chadwick Boseman I think had bigger consequences than people realize. I'm certain there were more meaningful projects that relied on his Black Panther that helped tie things together.
The pace of media isnt a problem as long as the complexity of the story is layered. The movies should have a continuous story that you can follow without Disney+ and the shows should add greater (meaningful) depth to those characters and the universe, but not be essential to really enjoy the "big events" of the films.
Finally with so much ground work to set up with a whole new cast for X-Men, the big event that'd feel as meaningful as endgame (Marvel vs X-Men) is a long way off, so it is just a lull. Some of the best through-line villains, that would be relevant to the greater Marvel Universe, aren't accessible yet for the MCU (Magneto, Dr. Doom, Weapons-X).
I think the Chadwick Boseman thing really helped show how hard it is to keep up a format like the MCU. All of sudden, Chad was dead, and his obvious replacement, Shuri's actress, fell into controversy due to her views. I'm not even sure if a Black Panther 2 is possible and, if it is, what the hell is gonna happen in it.
And what's stopping similar things from happening? An actor dies, another retires, another gets canceled, and the meticulous planning that has been possible for the last decade suddenly starts to crumble, especially since there seems to be way less of a plan now to begin with.
Him passing also made it so that people think Black Panther should not have another actor replace him thereby hurting future black actors chances too sadly.
Oh definitely. The fact that NWH was originally a Kraven story made me realize that they might have had Chadwick’s BP in mind as the “MCU crossover” character, but his declining health solidified that they should do something else.
@@theobuniel9643 That would've been consistent with the other Spider-Man Home Films, instead of No Way Home feeling out of nowhere.
@@starkillersneed m'baku is a perfect replacement, not shuri. who tf wants to see shuri as black panther?
Honestly I think you're right, it feels so bad to kind of be an outsider to a franchise I've loved since I was a kid, not cuz I stopped caring but cuz I just literally don't have the time to watch these multiple 8 hour shows, plus the pandemic is still not over so going out for things that aren't work related is still like- a big chore for some people lol
I wanna catch up but any time I finally get a moment, I realize that holy heck! I have 2 long, convoluted Disney plus shows to watch, 2 convoluted movies that I have to pay a premium for, and I can't watch them out of order (even tho one is more interesting to me than the other), and then the cycle repeats cuz they release so much per year now, and suddenly i cant talk about marvel at all anymore. I love the mcu but it's just asking a loooot of us right now..
The only reason I was able to watch wandavision and Loki it's because me and my buddy found a way to have 2 hours free of anything at work lol , so we would hide somewhere and watch it from his tablet
Pay premium for?
@@TheDiamondSlayer1 not everyone can afford to drop that at just any old time lol but either way you still have to find the time to watch everything to start with. Some movies require viewing a series first too.
The thing is though you don't need to watch every tv show, it helps and adds to the experience but its not mandatory. Even if you watch no tv shows you will have at least have a general idea of what's going on in a movie. Just watch what interests you and you'll be fine like how its been since the beginning.
I'm gonna be honest with you man, nobody is obligated to watch these shows or movies. Sure you're a fan but it doesnt mkae you less of a fan if you dont watch these shows. Anyone who will judge people with this standard otherwise are idiots who just blindly consume media and makes mcu their whole personality.
I mean, people talking about Infinity War and No Way Gone more than Hawkeye is a given, those two are major cultural events, meanwhile the other is a seasonal holiday romp about a story that's essentially a cult classic comic.
I just think that as long as these shows are different, and the movies give you a good enough overview of the events that transpired, people will be fine.
Marvel seems to be doing a bunch of mini storylines, that are merging into one. Thunderbolts type team, Young Avengers, Midnight Suns/supernatural characters, multiverse shenanigans, and New Avengers as a baseline. Just gotta see how it's all coming together, because in phase 1, there was a background story being built up, but we didn't realize it until The Avengers. So we still need that one movie to lay it all out.
Yea I was gonna say I hear more about moonknight and Loki more then black widow lol.
@CH_OmegaI don't Think the writing is problem. It's the episode count that limits the writing.
And i think that one movie will be antman and the wasp quantumania. Since kang will be the vilain
Way too many teams and storylines to balance. People will get disinterested with diminishing returns. Try to view this through a non-fan, or at best casual viewer. Most people aren’t going to watch 4 television series to get caught up with the cinematic properties.
Sounds like you're excusing shitty writing being promoted more because it's easier for idiots to watch
Maybe it’s just me, but I disagree with the idea that most of the pre endgame MCU films felt like they were building to something bigger (thanos) most films had nothing to do with him, some of them featured stones yes, but I’d argue alot of what turned out to be stones, mainly the ether and tesaract were not originally intended to be infinity stones.
I do think you are looking back at the older films and seeing a plan because of the hindsight you gained from watching it all come together in the end.
Phases 1 through 3 had a vague outline but no real plan in place for a long time, kind of like phase 4.
Completely agree. I never understand the critique that Phase 4 is "spinning its wheels, throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks". Does it have to always lead to something? Can't we just have stories of characters and the circumstances they find themselves in?
And even then, there's setup of a LOT. Thunderbolts, Young Avengers, Midnight Sons, Kang, Secret Wars...
@@hannahworthington3172 Honestly, we knew they were heading towards Avengers because of the THIRD movie in Phase 1 with Cap being called "The First Avenger". If you follow what they actually did with stingers, they have set up Dark Avengers/Thunderbolts, New Avengers, SWORD, and Midnight Suns. They could literally use any of those groups as an Avengers-style collab movie. New Avengers is the most obvious choice as every single Avenger has chosen or has a possible replacement on hand (Thor and Hulk not really needing replacements, but they are there if needed). I think the actual problem is people trying to forecast what will happen, but being disappointed in their own imagination.
@@anthonyvillanueva5226 The mcu unintentionally boxed itself in with the method of every movie needing to lead up to something which is the only thing fans believe is right why to make these movies. That's why a majority of these movies never feel complete because they're always leading into something else.
He didn’t have to be there, we knew everything led up to him. Iron Man especially kind of made it his mission to be prepared for when he comes, and Infinity Stones were mentioned quite a lot.
All the Phase 1 films were building up to The Avengers teamup, so there was a consistent thru-line for those. From that point forward, Thanos' presence was acknowledged, and while not every single film was building towards that enough of them were and the rest felt like isolated stories.
Contrast that with where we're at now, where we're curious about mutants, F4, The Illuminati, a new Avengers lineup, Dark Avengers, New Avengers, SWORD, and so on..and have no idea where any of it's going yet.
I grew up watching the MCU and I will always treasure them in a special place, and as much as I hate it, I can definitely see myself back out of the universe sooner than later. It's not the same anymore. I'm not excited for any new MCU releases anymore, whereas I used to know the release date to every film that had a confirmed release date. Now it's released and I'm like: "Allright, let's watch it then." There's also too much content.
I love the idea of a show that is 100% canon to the MCU, but we shouldn't get 7 new shows to watch in the last one and a half year, not even mentioning the films. It's beginning to feel more of a chore rather than a hobby.
While I agree with you about it feeling like shows are becoming “essential viewing” to keep up with the films, I think the huge benefit of creating these different series is a greater dive into who these characters are.
Wandavision really helped to give insight to the titular characters’ relationship and personalities. While it wasn’t the strongest show, Falcon and the Winter Soldier helped us get to know Sam, Bucky, and even Zemo on a way greater level. Moon Knight especially benefited by giving us time to learn more about the brokenness of Marc Spector and his dark connection to Khonshu.
Personally, as a huge Marvel fan, I’m eating up all this MCU content, but I’m not blind to the flaws. I’m just glad to see more in-depth character growth for past heroes, and exciting introductions into the MCU for comic-fan favorites.
I'm going to be critical in my comment so bear with me as I must be clear this isn't meant to take away from people still enjoying TV shows set in Phase 4, just expressing my thoughts of being disappointed with it overall with more misses than hits, we can agree to disagree on this
I was initially excited for that very reason that I thought they'd be able to explore characters in a more ideal way than how a 2 hour movie ever could, but from how the shows have been structured it felt like they still didn't cover as much ground as I thought they could. With TFATWS the initial plan to explore the trauma Bucky experienced and caused for others was incomplete by cutting the sequence where he is with the Japanese father (whose son was killed by Bucky) short upon arriving there -- we could've at least seen the father show hatred or a longer emotional moment giving nuance into the realization of the difficulty of how his past life haunts his present status as a hero but no. We could've also gotten more clashing dialogue between Sam and Isaiah Bradley, with Sam at least trying to talk more about how Steve was like and why embodying the shield is possible now, even with a world that can still be harsh, progressivism has existed as a whole, but then contrast that with Bradley's understandable cynical and broken view because he was experimented upon. With Loki I honestly felt that Sylvie was somehow wasted despite being with Loki for a lot of the runtime, it'd have been preferable to show her development from being young to planning to take down the TVA, at least to give more of a perspective on her hyper focused singular goal ending with creating the multiverse inadvertently (it felt hollow to me on hiw she was presented as is). With Hawkeye's first half at least it does seem like we still needed some more breathing room with how Hawkeye deals with guilt and the reality of the world on top of Kate Bishop's entry to his life.
To simplify it all of the MCU shows right now might have worked for me more if they did indeed give some further commitment to showing characters as they are with at least 2 more episodes to balance plot lines and seeing them as them more, given how they seem to be rushed in parts of their writing despite having more overall runtime -- TFATWS is the obvious example, where we see Karli Morgenthau's build up as a villain be frankly uncompelling, since initially she's more of a Robin Hood empathetic figure, but midway she becomes a psychopathic killer under the guise of saying she behaves like how the elite politicians would (i.e. violence is the language they understand, but we actually don't see how the elite politicians and government operate all that much in the show, it has to be John Walker showing the bad side of things which Karli isn't basing her sudden change of behavior on).
@@autolosss I agree with you on each of the examples you mention. I think we definitely could have seen a lot of characters more in-depth.
Not to defend Marvel/Disney or anything, but I feel like they were trying to balance how far they could go in these shows character-development wise, while still keeping it action-packed. Especially considering they had no idea if these shows would work at all. But I am all for longer episode counts for sure.
I concur
I would agree with you, if i felt that they did that with the shows, grow the world and the characters so that it would feel more grounded but it didn't for most of them, it felt like they only wanted to give some content without really thinking what are we missing, what layers have not been revealed
I absolutely feel like it's too much. You're going to run into situations where either some of the audience is lost watching a movie that relies on information from the shows, or they have to slow the movie down to explain what happened and bore people who have already watched those shows. Personally, I think there should be a bit of a wall between the two mediums. The movies should move the plot of the phase along and all be watchable to people who have seen the movies. Meanwhile, the shows should expand upon the universe. Take time to develop a character more in a setting that doesn't have to be a spectacle. Maybe take some really weird character that's not likely to be used and tell a neat story with them. Maybe take a neat idea that can't be done in a movie like telling the stories of regular people caught up in these monumental events. Just don't require people to watch hours of shows in order to understand a new movie.
They've done what you're saying with Hawkeye and people still complain because it's "not important" and we don't see how it connects.
And what you're describing is how Agents of Shield and the Netflix Marvel shows were and people were mad that they DIDN'T connect.
I just think people need to be patient. There will be plenty to critique when we get a clearer picture of it all
true
Yes I did not watch Wandavision & was totally lost as to why the heck Wanda was doing what she was doing. Made no sense. Then got home & viewed a cliff notes of Wandavision & it all made sense. Perturbed that I read something that said I didn't need to watch it before the movie, but that's your point 100%. Strange 2 was just a shoulder shrug for me b/c I didn't have the background which is totally unacceptable to me!!
The thing is though you don't need to watch every tv show, it helps and adds to the experience but its not mandatory. Even if you watch no tv shows you will have at least have a general idea of what's going on in a movie. Just watch what interests you and you'll be fine like how its been since the beginning.
I've known for years that eventually they'd take the MCU in the direction that the comics ended up, where theres so much continuity and shared storylines that no one can just jump in and know what the hell is going on... It'll get to the point where it's back to being niche and just for the most dedicated fans
Wasn't the purpose of that agency in the loky show to prevent multiverse events or something like that?
Where were they during the spiderman or strange 2 movies??
I truly hope so. I don't know who Avengers Campus is for in the Disney Parks, but I don't think it's for a true Marvel like me. I feel like Marvel has become badly mitigated just to appeal to everyone.
@@calypso see, that's the irony of it. At the end of Loki, the TVA no longer exists.
I had to explain most of wandavision to my friend after we saw mom. He was confused as to why wanda was suddenly invested in some random children, as where he left off, wanda and vision never had any kids
My boyfriend actually explained that to me before the movie telling me that he already told me before and that was all that I needed to know of the show. Lol
We saw it together and enjoyed it too.
Another thing is that Disney is desperate to add more content to Disney+, so they feel forced to make as many Marvel (and Star Wars and Pixar) shows as possible to keep consumer's subscribed.
The problem is if consumers stop finding value in them.
I agree. There's too much MCU content coming out too rapidly for me to feel as excited like I once did. The idea of going to an MCU movie doesn't feel like a grand spectacle anymore.
On top of that it seems like some of the threads they're creating are pretty boring and I don't want to feel like I need to watch them in order to understand the grand scheme at play. I'm not looking forward to an Agatha, Echo, and whatever Thunderbolts roster Valentina is building, but I feel like I might need to watch them in order to stay caught up.
Talking about the hype from Wandavision, I think its important to note when that came out. It was basically the first thing to air after Covid started, especially in the MCU. And as the first show it was always going to get attention. General discourse not being as high anymore feels inevitable when compared to the perfect storm of the WV release
Yeah, we were all on lockdown with nothing to do. I remember going to a friend’s house and having a Wandavision party, watching the first three episodes
Glad you're finally coming around to what some of us have been saying, or even predicted. :)
Unlike before when things were selective, and deliberate, Marvel is at a place where they are now just making content for content's sake. Disney+ has to drive subscribers (and hold the ones they have) and the only way to do that is with more new shows. And the only way for the shows to matter is if they connect to the movies. And the only way the movies can do what they need is if the shows take care of the backstories and character development for them. This has led to weaker storytelling pretty much across the board, making for a weaker Phase. Sure, it's convoluted now (Loki is directly responsible for this) and without direction, but to say its unfocused? I'm not so sure... It's very focused on one thing: Replacing all the established heroes. Subconsciously, this may be having an effect on why this Phase isn't quite hitting like previous ones did, too.
I definitely don't anticipate myself getting as hyped for a new Avengers film when Black Widow, Hawkeye, Captain America, Hulk, Black Panther, Iron Man and Ant-Man are all new characters, with Spider-Man being treated like a new character to the other heroes. Thor, Wanda, Vision, Starlord, Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel will be consistent but Thor is the only original Avenger of that group, Wanda is completely changed but also pinballs around a ton throughout her appearances, Vision is kind of but not really his original self and Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel are consistently supporting characters in Avengers-related content.
It just feels very underwhelming while also bloated to hell. I didn't even mention all of the new players that will appear before the Big Bad of this new phase with Shang-Chi, Ms. Marvel, Fantastic 4, X-Men, Inhumans likely appearing again in some capacity, and Eternals. It's just sooooo much that is somehow leaving me disappointed anyway.
Edit: Got to add Loki, Moon Knight, War Machine, Wasp, Photon/Pulsar (Monica), Deadpool and Blade will likely be included too. Also definitely Adam Warlock.
I do think it's very deliberate and focused... just not in the way that previous phases were. It seems like some projects are setting up a multiversal war, some projects are setting up some kind of dark avengers, some projects are setting up what appears to be the midnight sons or something like them and throughout all of them we are having young heroes pop up for the next avengers team.
But it's making the phase feel unfocused because it isn't a phase. In the past, each phase ended in an avengers movie and everything built up to that. Here, it feels like wandavision, loki, no way home and doctor strange are phase 1 for a multiverse war while black widow, falcon and the winter soldier, and hawkeye are phase 1 for a dark avengers show while eternals(black knight and blade) and moon knight are in their own phase with the upcoming werewolf by night to make a midnight sons team.
Phase 4 feels like multiple phases running at the same time... and the 6 episode tv shows aren't helping. Feige is a brilliant filmmaker. But stretching a film out to 6 hours doesn't make it better, and they don't have enough time to connect with people the way an actual tv show does. I've enjoyed most of them, but I feel like they either need to go the made for tv movie route or stretch them out to 12+ episodes, because right now they just feel like they have alot of unnecessary fat for the purpose of getting 2 months of subscriptions per season instead of one.
@@arthand7672 Idk I'm super excited to see Shang, Kate, Peter, Marc and even some of the Eternals again.
@@racool911 oh I am too! Don't get me wrong. I just think it's leaving people feeling like it's unfocused because it's not the traditional "all of the movies exist to set up the avengers movie at the end of the phase" formula we've gotten used to.
I know i said they could just be movies, but I'd also love to see the shows get more episodes so we can just see Marc or Kate just like, stop a bank heist or something. I just feel like as if these shows don't really feel long enough to give us episodes like that, they just feel like long movies that didn't get cut down to be released theatrically. It's not that I'm saying more time with these characters is bad, it's just not enough time to do anything but fight the big bad in most series.
Disney+ definitely drove them into the quantity over quality strategy. They greenlit a bunch of shows to pad their content without thinking of the consequences. They are now feeling the effects of those consequences.
I’ve been having these thoughts after Multiverse of Madness to be honest. Watching these films as someone invested in the intricacies of this universe pretty annually with someone who enjoys the characters more than the overarching plot, you start to realize how for casual viewers this is a looming problem. You’ve hit every nail on the head with this video.
The mcu should focus in more solo projects, they dont even need to reset the universe. They just have to trust more in the project quality than in conections
I'm of two minds, yes I'd rather see a little less MCU within a year and I agree with some of the points made in the video however whenever I talk about this with my casual friends they actually seem way more invested into MCU now because of the Disney Plus shows than they were before Avengers endgame. They seem to be more in love with the MCU than they ever were before so I guess it's different for different types of people. Idk what to think at this point.
This is what happens when you have a CEO like Bob Chapek leading Disney.
He only sees value in art for its ROI, not its quality. So we get tons of IP-based products pumped out as fast as possible for short term monetary gain, even though long term the damage to Disney's brand will be huge.
From a buisness perspective, I wish shows can be sold in stores along with their original films. Give everyone access and than build a timeline. Give a certain time limit to have streamers enjoy it first and than sell the shows in stores for other people to enjoy them too, but before the new films come out. Than everyone won’t fall behind.
Considering Netflix is going downhill, I would love to have something new to watch on Disney+.
I do agree with you about “quality over quantity.” I am glad the quality has not gone completely downhill yet. There is still some originality and creativity there.
Also, I became a Marvel fan after Infinity War, so the excitement of the universe is still there.
But I get the superhero fatigue. Many love rewatching these films and shows in orders but it may take an entire lifetime to rewatch them in phase order making us just skip to our favorites which seems unfair because the MCU was not created that way.
I’ve been so burnt out by the MCU lately and it’s mostly because we don’t get any sort of breathing room; after one show ends, there’s another movie or show out. I know for some fans, that must be exciting, but I wish there was a gap in between projects; especially considering that Phase 4, with exceptions, has been feeling the same.
I think one of the issues is that so many executives and writers are prioritizing “binge-ability” over watchability. Like yes the Disney + shoes come out episode by episode but in many ways they are best watched all in one sitting. I watched Hawkeye in one day and really liked it. If I had to wait 8 weeks for the whole show episode by episode I don’t think I would have enjoyed it.
Its because they have taken storylines that would make for ok movies and stretched them into mediocre seasons of tv.
@@bloodlinefilms you’re absolutely right. I miss the days of daredevil and Jessica jones S1. Real serialized television. Netflix Daredevil doesn’t work as a movie it’s 3 practically perfect seasons of tv (but I’m pretty biased cause I love daredevil. It’s my favorite comic)
@@yourfavoritebubbe7444 I agree. All the Netflix shows are best seen one episode a day.
It's ironic that the bingeable shows are being released weekly and the serialised shows were being released all at once.
Stranger Things is an anomaly tho. The fourth season is VERY long, still, it's best watched as a binge. It's also a good enough serialised show.
I think it's actually fun to wait for the next piece of the puzzle for a week. It keeps me engaged and I'm looking forward to next Wednesday to see if I guessed something right.
Eh, I found it enjoyable and watched it as they came out. I think it just depends on how you view them
"You can either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" - The Dark Knight line is prevalent here....
I love the MCU. But ever since all those shows came out, it started to become boring. I don’t have the time to watch so many shows because I have a life outside of digital media. And the shows aren’t even good. There’s also too many movies coming out, as you already said, I neither have the money nor the time to go to the cinema once every 2 to 3 months. That’s a me problem I guess but I know I’m probably not alone with this. Lately I’ve felt so disconnected from the MCU, and the shows are part of it (I’m talking about most of the Disney+ shows, not the Netflix ones, because they are actually great) and just the fact that you have to watch them to understand the movies. So thank you, you perfectly captured what I’ve been trying to say for weeks. I’m happy I’ve found people who have the same opinion as me.
I have the same opinion, marvel is basically going downhill and no one likes to talk about it. I don’t like where the MCU is going because Marvel is just in a place where they don’t know where they are at. Yes it’s fun going to the movies but like why go to the movies if there is no reward to it. I just watched Love and Thunder and it wasn’t that good at all, I’m turning more over to DC and other universes because Marvel is not becoming what it needs to.
So you’re saying that Jessica Jones, Daredevil and Luke Cage are better than Wandavision, Loki and Moonknight?
@@kiampakuingi9812 definitely better than Loki, I hate Loki
@@kiampakuingi9812 yes DD neflix better than marvel shows in disney plus
No matter how large the MCU gets, there will always be a very big difference between it and the comics in regards to finding an entry point. With the comics, part of the reason why they're so intimidating to newcomers is because it quite simply isn't as easy as just picking up a single issue or picking a single storyline to jump into. Every issue and every storyline carries baggage with it. Storylines aren't just told as "Avengers #1, #2, #2, etc". They're spread across many different comics. "Avengers #3" might actually be "Spider-Man #24", which then carries the assumption you have to first read all the other Spider-Men issues - which might also include chapters of other storylines.
The MCU will never have this issue. Even if a Disney+ show is required viewing, you will still have a perfectly clear entry point. WandaVision episode 3 isn't being told in Loki. WandaVision is self contained to itself. The most a newcomer will have to do is look up a list of MCU entries by release date and watch in that order.
Yeah, I agree. The comic book continuity is beyond fucked in a way the MCU probably even can't be.
On the one hand I get the sentiment because casual audiences now have multiple seasons of TV and films that are all required viewing to keep up with the story
On the other hand I kind of like how much this Phase truly feels like the way Marvel Comics have been structured with the big tentpole stories and the off-shoots supplementing them on the side. It's actually pretty cool
Amen to that, brother :)
Yeah, I'm a casual Marvel watcher and I feel more and more overwhelmed by the amount of material that all seems interwoven. Like, how can I even get into the MCU now? It was so much simpler for me when it were standalone films who would sometimes refer to one another or throwback to previous films. That felt more like easter eggs than missing a relevant piece of the story.
@@DanAndHoe if your not really into the shows you can just spoil yourself and watch a quick vid of it. That's what I did for wandavision.
@@cngotham4111 Sure, I love having to do a load of homework just to understand what's going on in a movie.
@@tommyrandall3489 I mean it's not that much work lol. Watching a 10 min UA-cam vid is much. Do I think it's kinda dumb yes but it's not the worse thing. Or just don't watch it and continue on I surpose.
THIS. This puts my thoughts on the whole thing into words perfectly. I love tv shows because they can tell longform stories that I can get real cozy putting a little bit of effort into every day, but part of what makes that work for me is the episode format. Of course, I've watched some anime recently that don't follow the episode format, but I can forgive that because 1 I just find animation more pleasing to look at for the long periods of time that tv shows take up, but more importantly 2 is that since they're ACTUAL tv shows, they're able to have arcs that begin and end in a satisfying ebb and flow throughout the series. And it's all even better when the show actually DOES follow the episodic format. These MCU shows, on top of not having the visual appeal of animation, just feel like overlong movies as you said. Honestly I remember thinking that the MCU was like a cinematic tv show in the buildup to Infinity War/Endgame, and LIKING it because each movie was like an episode, and they told a complete story on their own, but these shows just aren't it for me because they lack that quality and put HOURS of content that I don't want to watch on the back of the stuff I DO want to watch, which itself is already so big that there were almost 60 characters in Infinity War.
@ 8:10
I think we have a little future bias knowing how well the movies wrapped up. But I can agree they did APPEAR more connected because they simply were more grounded in reality. Also the inclusions of Phil Coleson and Nick Fury in those movies added an heir of “oh shit their making something” which ended up being the avengers. I think phase 4 needs something like a Coleson to rlly keep thing in perspective.
I agree, especially with the fact that there seems to be no direction as for a big villain/threat. So far we've had egyptian and chinese mythology/gods, the celestials, kang, kingpin, possible new villains coming in from other dimensions, and i'm sure i'm forgetting somebody. it's too much of too many things
I want to see a really effective human villain with no superpowers. Kingpin has the potential I suppose, but I think Disney is going to make him soft.
To be honest the Egyptians gods worked best when they didn’t acknowledge the rest of the universe
Bad take for a lot of phase 1 we didn't have a clear " Big Bad" until thanos said I'll do it myself at Avengers lol and that was after what like 5 movies?. These things take time ti build and marvel already introduced hints of the big bad with KANG
I'm of two minds when it comes to this. On the one hand I do think Phase 4 have given us some of the most diverse and more innovative shows with entries like Loki and Wandavision I do feel your point on the "homework" feeling. I'm happy the MCU is still doing new stuff but the sheer onslaught of new material seemingly releasing almost every season kind of leaves me feeling burned out, even as a huge comic fan.
I know the MCU is basically going to get milked for all it's worth till it gets old but I definitely think cutting back and trying to keep a better focus on one and done stories without the biggest prior build up can make it a little bit easier. I only am caught up now because I grew up with these movies but I definitely fear a harder barrier of entry for immersion is just going to keep happening the more content we get, specially if these side series bleed into future movies like Strange 2.
both shows are bad...more loki than singlehandely ruined the entire MCU
@@FULANODETAL Agreed.
Wanda and Loki had good set ups....and poor pay offs
@@hitherehemmingway5463 Loki singlely ruined all mcu..and even drstrange 2 add more plot home with the dreams are multiverses
@@FULANODETAL oh you mean like how they made it so endgame was a event that was "always planned to happen"? Or something else?
The fatigue still hasn't happened but you made some good points, the comparison with the comics is specially spot on.
Agree on the tv series and the episodic format. Tissan Young's video on phase 4 goes deeper on the Disney plus series and how at times they either don't add much or undermine the characters we grew to love in the mcu
I LOVE that u put in clips from Buffy in this episode. Such an AMAZING series.
This is really true especially after endgame, where I like alot of others, decided that the MCU could be considered over. Now its more content to keep up with where as I feel like i have to be sold on the MCU again, never-mind ramping it up.
I think that like your last video reviewing Doctor Strange, you’re scrutinizing the MCU at its core. I think too many fans, myself and you included, are expecting some build up like we did when the movies in earlier Phases began to set up Thanos from about Thor onward. After Endgame, theres no big villian and I’m okay with it. Sure, many people won’t enjoy the smaller, or even tangental characters like Shang-chi, the Eternals or She-Hulk that are being introduced. But the MCU knows it can draw crowds and has almost limitless potential to put so many characters on screen in ways you could never imagine 10-15 years ago. I’m here for it, whether or not the movies are blockbusters, it draws my interest and will keep me wanting that theater crowd reaction that I haven’t found from so many other movies, comic-derived or not
I'm surprised to see you voice out these thoughts and for that I appreciate it.
I will say, I don't have inherent problems with them making connected shows, my problem as I've commented elsewhere is despite the added runtime there still seems to be missed opportunities for character development within the shows that may have been addressed if most shows had 2 more episodes (e.g. Bucky's trauma in killing people while being at HYDRA, showing Karli Morgenthau's shift from empathetic to psychopathic figure, giving more past scenes of Sylvie on her hyper focused goal to take down the TVA, getting to at least see a bit more of SWORD-vision, seeing more of Hawkeye's feelings of guilt and coming to terms with the world) and Feige's insincere marketing about themselves (saying that WandaVision was not made to commoditize to the next movie as a reason why Doctor Strange was scrapped from the plot, when the original lineup directly leads up to Multiverse of Madness).
To be fair, like you say, part of this was caused by the pandemic forcing them to release what was supposed to be spaced out films and shows all at once, and the sense of fatigue probably wouldn't have existed without it. That said their commitment to be planning shows for almost every side character is becoming a bit too much, and it was clear in Marvel's Phase 4 pre pandemic line up that in 2021 they originally planned to show 4 TV series and 2 films, so they really were planning to dump much more content than usual to viewers.
If I ought to be frank, given Phase 4's experimental nature, I'd much prefer them to release Marvel shows not tied to the MCU at all but in other universes. Given they already established the multiverse anyway they can always want to tie them if they could, but there should be even less of an obligation for that compared to how the shows we got currently operate. While the ending had some questionable moments I was fond of Hulu's Hit Monkey given its absurd premise worked and it wasn't bogged down by the MCU at all -- plus being a gory animated series with actual good character moments within its short average running time also works.
You touched on a huge reason I just gave up on the majority of MCU movies. There’s just too much going on. Last one I loved was Black Panther because I could just enjoy it for what it was (didn’t understand post credits scene). But I’m worried the sequel will have me feeling like I didn’t do my homework as it weaves in stories and characters from other parts of the universe.
I honestly prefer the smaller scale D+ shows. Spending more time with the characters makes me feel like I know them better and makes me more invested.
Yes! I absolutely love how the limited series allow more time to flesh out character development.
Agreed. The movies had to rely on some quick shorthand to tell us that Wanda and Vision really loved each other and his death was a terrible loss for her, but WandaVision really let us feel their relationship, gave it some weight and credibility.
Phase 4 installments so far has felt more like they're building up towards their own segmented major events, rather than major events that effect the entire universe. Like what's really going to be the next crisis for the avengers to face? Like is it the celestials, the incursion, the thunderbolts or is it Kang?
They’re gonna hit a snag at some point bc all those crises are super big. Kang, Galactus? Unfathomable. They can only up the stakes so much at a time. (Provided that they don’t forcibly lower the power levels/importance of some characters, which they already do.)
I mean, the Avengers have been Disassembled, so that's a whole other problem to take care of lol
I have a hard time getting into new shows so these constant releases worked fine for me. But i also really loved moon knight partly because its so disconnected. It felt so fresh in that way.
Some Disney plus shows do indeed drag on a bit. Loki and Hawkeye certainly had a couple rough moments. I think a lot of the phase building does work well but I also think that it would be great to cut back a little. Give some projects more time to breathe. Make shows we can celebrate more and truly say they were worthwhile!
I think Covid is the main reason for the bumpy transition. I loved Loki and WandaVision a lot. Falcon was weak. Hawkeye was fun. Moon Knight was good. I think as long as they put pout good movies/shows they will be fine.
I've been having the same thoughts lately. I've always enjoyed the marvel movies but a few years ago it began to feel like a chore to keep up with the lesser side movies just so I could enjoy the big releases like the avenger movies. Now that they are putting out all of these tv shows, i think they will wind up losing a lot of their more casual fans like myself because I don't have the time or interest to spend hours watching all of these tv shows to keep up with everything. I think the smart compromise would be to put out the shows but keep the movies independent enough that casual fan can enjoy them but keep the die hard fans happy by putting references to the shows in the movies (like they did with the comic book fans in the earlier movies)
This video sounds prophetic now. It was spot on. Disney movie box office is down, Disney plus is raising prices and sheding some subscribers due to lack of interest in new content.
The problem to me isn’t the platform, it’s how frequently we’re getting shows.
I’m not against the Disney+ shows. There some I like but they are pumping them out way to fast. Also some shows feel like they should be combined or shouldn’t exist at all
Like Armor Wars & Ironheart should be one show. Marvel Zombies should just be episodes in What If. Echo and Agatha don’t need to happen
Interesting how 4 out of 5 of the shows you just mentioned getting rid of or forcing together are led by women or people of colour. People really won’t give Don Cheadle and Dominique Thorne the chance to carry their own shows, wonder why. 💀
I think another issue with these Disney+ shows is that they cover multiple episodes only for some specific pieces of information to be relevant to the overall MCU.
I totally agree with the sentiment.
There doesn’t seem to be a moment to savour and digest a show / film before the next show is released.
As you say “how can I miss you, if you won’t go away”.
I love all the MCU content, I just don’t want to be watching something every week.
I began rewatching Better Call Saul and I gotta say, I totally understand where you’re coming from regarding episodic storytelling - and the MCU’s total lack of such. BCS is a masterclass in how to construct a proper episodic serialized show. I can’t tell you how many times I catch myself thinking, “If only Disney and Marvel had done this…”
I think the closest they came was Wanda Vision (which I THOROUGHLY enjoyed). Unfortunately I think there were too many negative voices clamoring to bring that show down a few pegs, without thinking what the consequences would be. I believe Disney heard them and chose to play it entirely safe after that point.
This is exactly how I feel. After Far From Home, I felt not "done", but more relaxed with the MCU, I'd had the epic journey, anything after would just be some casual fun. Then WandaVision, What If, and Loki really got me interested in the multiverse, Falcon and the Winter Soldier was just fine, but then I didn't watch Black Widow, or Eternals, or Hawkeye. I saw No Way Home, loved it, and then I didn't watch Moon Knight. I haven't even seen Doctor Strange 2 yet, I know some spoilers, and I'm not really that fussed. It's just so much to take in and follow, and they haven't shown a clear path. I've seen people say it's like Phase 1, before they were building to Thanos, when they weren't building to anything, just introducing the characters, but they were building to something, they were working towards the Avengers. This just feels aimless right now
But is it necessary a bad thing that it feels aimless? Just enjoy what you watch and don’t think too much about what will happen next until it is actually happening.
@@herb4243 that is absolutely the most logical choice people should be making with phase 4.
I agree that phase 4 lacks the focus of previous MCU, buy I think that's by design to some degree.
Phase 1 was made of largely distinct titles until Avengers brought it all together, so Phase 4 is like the Phase 1 of the Kang saga.
It's just weird because, unlike Phase 1, we now know the relationship between many of these characters and expect to see these connection onscreen.
If you look at it this way, Marvel has never been in this spot before, they've never had to start a saga under these conditions and I think this is why it doesn't feel like phase 4 is doing a great job, because it doesn't fit their well established formula.
With that said, I'm sure they have a plan and once we get into the "Avengers" or whatever it is that will bring these pieces together this time around, it should probably get back on track.
Now One has ever enjoyed the success MARVEL has had before, their "problems" are unique to them😊
I’ve been waiting for someone to say it. The MCU is wayyyy too complicated for any casual non-dedicated fan to even glance at anymore. It’s truly too much to catch up on and honestly is it even worth it anymore? It’s a big cash cow that marvel/Disney needs to stop beating in my opinion. I’ve personally been sick of the endless collaborations and new spinoff series for years now and I wish they wouldve let it die after endgame
I hear you but letting it die is crazy. Even if non dedicated fans don't go, the dedicated will be enough to sustain decent economics for years to come.
Great video & I think a good inverse to this would be how Disney+ is being beneficial for SW. While TBoBF wasn't that good imo, them making TCW final season & Bad Batch happen, connecting trilogies w/ Kenobi & Mando has been really good. And a lot of the shows coming soon seem to be great, at least in concept
In my opinion it doesn't but I do see a dip in quality when it comes to Disney+ and Movies for the MCU.
Before Disney+, the MCU was in the movies and you got a FULL TEAM for that one project. But now that you got Disney+ and Movies, you're split into 2 teams and the quality may be affected on one project or the other.
Anyone noticed how Nintendo discontinued the 3DS back in 2019 and focused more on the Nintendo Switch as their games gets higher and higher of quality compared to those eras where you had both Handheld and Home Console games where the quality seems to be mixed? It may be just me but that's what I'm seeing with the MCU
The Switch is mostly Wii U ports...
And games like Kirby Star allies, Mario Golf, ALL the Pokemons, etc. Are worse than their 3DS predecessors
@@EggFighterXB- there are more Switch games that aren't Wii U ports. If you look at the games for the Wii I being ported to the Switch it isn't even halfway. A few Wii U games like Splatoon already got sequels on the Switch.
@@captainseg Their current output of games is on par with the Wii U/3DS eras, some stuff is better like forgotten land or maybe worse like Switch Sports
@@EggFighterXB- I find their new games better than the Wii U and 3DS days. Sure Star Allies tripped but Forgotten Land surpassed expectations. Super Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild blew everyone away. Pokemon Legends Arceus did what no Pokemon would ever do: Evolve. Splatoon got a great sequel and another game was announced. Metroid Dread broke records since Metroid Prime back in 2001.
I can go on and on, but you probably see my point. Besides, if you say the games for the Switch that is on par with the Wii U/3DS how come the games are celebrated so much that Super Mario Odyssey, Breath of the Wild, Animal Crossing New Horizons, AND Metroid Dread we're nominated for Game of the Year with 1 being the victor??
Which Wii U/3DS games got EVERYONE talking to the point they said "I GOTTA HAVE A WII U/3DS TO GET THE GAME?" (Breath of the Wild for the Wii U doesn't count).
@@captainseg Breath of the Wild IS a Wii U game
Switch version is the port...
Also 3DS had Samus Returns and New Leaf. So yeah they are on par
I think that the fact that they are making 8 hour shows really helps with the development of characters since they have more time to dig deeper. Which is a problem I find with some marvel movies where they just mention events rather than showing them which is what Disney plus is for. For example, hulks transformation to professor hulk was only mentioned, or there could have been more time to show what happened after the blip etc. But I do understand that it might be a lot of content to keep up for casual people.
That happened with hulk because Disney is not allowed to make a hulk movie. They can only use him as a side character.
I agree with a lot of the points here. I've enjoyed most of the movies and TV shows so far, yet I've gotten overwhelmed with how much content to remember in case it ties to a larger narrative. This is also a new format, so I hope Marvel listens to the feedback (and their employees, given rumors that they are overworked) to refine and adapt for future phases. Lastly, I think now audiences are expecting to see more of a larger narrative thread than the were before, so there might be a misunderstanding that we may not see a larger set up for a little bit.
Totally in the same boat as you! None of the projects really excite me anymore.
The MCU hasn't been the same since after Endgame.
@@somerandolad Spiderman No Way Home is the exception.
@@somerandolad really? I thought Loki, wandavision and moon knight is some of the w most original stuff I’ve seen from marvel in years
@@varkolak7779 No Way Home relied on nostalgia from past movies since MCU Spider-Man is unable to have his own villains. MCU Spidey's greatest villain is a guy from another universe. Take the nostalgia away and it is a mediocore movie like the rest of the solo MCU films.
@@varkolak7779 Eh, not really. The important components work but some characters have to suffer for it to do so. Doctor Strange especially, who's been dumbed down for NWH and MOM a lot.
@@AYYYLMAOOOOO Idk where you people got the idea that the mere concept of Spidermans villains not being directly linked to him is inherently bad.
What matters is making sure he still has emotional stakes involving these villains, which MCU Spiderman films, and especially NWH, pulled off spectacularly.
Doesn’t really matter at all they care about is money and Milken the MCU to death until people get tired of it
Milken??? It’s milking
@@TheRealJahan Yes thanks mom
Keep em coming. Vids are excellent
The stuff with the comics really hit it right on the head. I loved the MCU since it's early days, so it was only natural that I became interested in reading the comics as well. But boy oh boy is that a complicated corner of the word, especially for somebody coming from Manga where it's just start at volume one. Its just such work to get into it, it's a high threshold.
I feel the exact same way! Thank you for putting all of the thoughts I’ve had about phase four into a video. As a MCU viewer who doesn’t really like tv shows but loves the movies, I find it hard to keep up at times.
I really want to see a Disney+ Marvel show that nails the rhythm of THE MANDALORIAN: that excellent blend of episodic and serialized.
2 movies 2 shows. Best formula imo.
With 1 show being a spin off mildly related but not really.
THANK YOU! I only watched Wandavision the week before MoM came out because I wanted to understand. I haven't seen any other MCU TV series.
I said it before and I still stand by it: the disney+ shows feel like homework.
I did end up adoring Wandavision, but that's beside the point, this is taking too much of my time and energy now0
Spot on analysis and especially love the comparison to the rapid expansion of comic book characters and crossovers of the 80s and 90s. The stories got so...busy.
I'm definitely losing my love for the MCU. I tried watching the shows but I stopped being able to keep up after Loki (I tried to watch Hawkeye but I wasn't hooked at all after 2 episodes and dropped it) and I've only seen FFH and NWH since Endgame. And I was massively invested during phases 1-3.
Then don’t watch them. What do you want?
@@Midnight93933 I don't watch them... that's the whole point of my comment. I don't want anything, I was just sharing my opinion like the video encouraged.
Love the Buffy and Angel bits.
Totally agree, if you’re not a die hard marvel fan most people won’t be aching the new ones as they can’t keep up with all of the new releases, my girlfriend loves marvel but hasn’t watched a new movie since infinity war because of all the new shows and timelines you have to keep up to date with
I might be in the minority, but I've been loving every bit of content I get. Every piece of media has been different enough to get me invested and I am looking forward to a payoff where a lot of these characters come together.
One stark difference between us, is I love the drawn out character driven series that give us a ton of introspection and character development. I believe that the Disney+ series' have given that to me. I enjoy TV both ways, the serialized version where there's a faint thread between everything and the heavy handed stories that are basically one long movie. I do like the in depth stuff, limited series more though. But I can understand that not being people's cup of tea.
I'm in the camp that keeps thinking I'll get sick of these eventually and hit that wall of superhero fatigue, but it just hasn't happened yet. I'm even more invested than I've ever been. I can't wait for the upcoming series and movies.
I’m glad your enjoying it! I’m sadly the complete opposite at this point. I stopped caring after Endgame, and I’ve completely moved on from the MCU. I’m just so fatigued from all of the superhero media
i agree with most of this except the final bit. as a decade+ long comic reader, I don't ever see myself being fatigued of superheroes, as I haven't yet.
I feel like the MCU is working towards the next Big bag kind of like how thanos wasn't revealed until the end of phase 1 so i imagine by the end of this phase we'll get our next big bad really hoping it's galactus personally
The theories I've heard that the end of Phase 4 may bring The Secret War saga and finally bringing in X-Men into the MCU.
There is obviously going to be some Kang stuff in the mcu seeing Loki
Its Kang, it has already been confirmed he is the next "big bad"
@@dansuduhast1051 I feel like Kang is going to be the Loki of this phase and at the end of phase 4 we'll get the next Thanos big bad tease cause kang is confirmed as the villain for ant man 3 and I feel like if he were the next thanos they'd save him for a massive crossover movie
@@Martiancookiehunter365 Kang is going to be the Loki and the Thanos there are multiple kangs.
Yeah I have to agree with your points about this. As a lover of superhero content for probably three decades it reminds me exactly of how I felt with the comics. I remember that I couldn't always afford to get to the comic shop let alone buy that many titles when I was a kid and it almost felt like the casual fan was being forced out and not valued. Like you weren't a good enough fan if you / your parents couldn't afford to keep up. Now I feel a bit the same with the way Disney are milking this for all its worth. I understand why they do it but it feels like it will be detrimental to the superhero universe in the long term
I'm a huge MCU fan, so my opinion would not be objective. I could only say that I love all those shows (Falcon and The Winter Soldier and Moon Knight are my favorite ones) and all the movies they made, and I still felt that I haven't enough Marvel projects for a year
I haven't thought about this before, but after watching this video, yeah, I definitely agree. I think we need to go back to the 2-3 movie/year formula and maybe throw a Disney+ show in there somewhere in the middle. If we get a movie in February, May and December, throw a Disney+ series like Loki season 2 or Ironheart in January.
My favourite marvel movies are still the original iron man and winter soldier. They were just good movies.
On the approach to infinity war everything had to be increasingly tied together to form 1 broad narrative at the expense of the individual movies.
It made sense for the lead up to a huge crossover event, but it should have gone smaller scale after that.
100% agree. I went from absolutely needing to see every movie as it comes out to just...not caring about all these releases. It doesn't pull the same way and I can't muster excitement anymore.
I loved Loki and Wandavision and I am looking forward to Season 2 of Loki, but I totally get where you’re coming from. I haven’t watched Moonknight and I’m kinda excited about Ms. Marvel but it seems to be geared towards teens, not everyone.
I’m hoping that the MCU will finally make a good Fantastic 4 movie and give us a great new Big Bad in Doctor Doom!!!
I wonder when people are gonna get tired of the MCU
Because I'm sick of it
Stop watching
While I may see your point and agree on some of it...
Honestly if we're talking about Loki/Wandavision/Captain& Falcon ? I'd MUCH rather have those than blowing budget on stuff like Black Widow. Like those TV shows are A MILLION TIMES better.
I honestly don't get the rather bizarre treatment of Disney+ here. I mean if it was bad suuure. But it's better than a lot of the MCU movies ?
Agreed with you 100%.
I agree with you completely. I don't have Disney+ so I wasn't even tempted to see the new Dr. Strange because I wouldn't have been able to follow it too closely. I think they can safely assume that you've seen the other movies (previous Thor movies for a Thor sequel for example) or that you've seen other Disney+ series to follow Disney+ shows, but to assume you've seen it all is a bit much.
Too be honest you don’t really need the D+ shoes to watch the new Dr. Strange. They only mention the events from Wandavision once for like 12 seconds
My biggest grip with phase 4 is as you mentioned the lack of momentum building to a big united threat. Like in phase 3 if a movie was mediocre but had a could end credit scene connecting back to something I would still leave the theatre excited (ex: ant man and the wasp). But in phase 4 if a movies mediocre and there's no credit scene that generates any excitement I feel very let down.
Yeah, I completely agree. I love the constant content, but it's getting increasingly hard to keep my parents interested for example. They love marvel stuff but it's getting to the point where it's impossible to keep up unless you're a full time fan of the stuff