How to Write a PERFECT Anti-Mystery - Glass Onion | Video Essay
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- Опубліковано 6 січ 2023
- A Glass Onion Video Essay breaking down how Netflix's Glass Onion and its predecessor Knives Out manage to be two of the best mystery movies without actually being mysteries at all. So strap in as we explore how Rian Johnson and his favorite Detective Benoit Blanc (Daniel Craig) approach each case, and how Glass Onion is the perfect follow up to Knives Out, but not for the reasons you think...
Also, I think Rian Johnson has a problem with Elon Musk. What's that about?
Written & Edited -------------- Dylan Gregory @TheWritersBlockOfficial
Music by ------------------------- Karl Casey @WhiteBatAudio
(And Also Johann Sebastian Bach, Arranged by me.)
I'm Dylan, and THIS is the Writer's Block. - Фільми й анімація
Did you prefer Knives out or Glass Onion???
Glass Onion for sure, cause it felt a lot less predictable then the orignal knives out
knives out
I'd say Knives out for its conclusion. But Glass Onion for the set- up. Overall enjoyed both movies!
I prefer Knives Out. But Glass Onion is still great.
glass onion is funnier, but knives out has better cinematography. i think its a tie
The contrast of Knives Out and Glass Onion is spectacular. One of them is closer to a classic murder mystery, with a well-planned murder and a killer who uses his wits to try to frame someone else for their crime. While the other is expecting such an “evil genius” plot, but actually ends up being a boring, heat of the moment killing, with obvious motives.
I can understand why people don't like the killer in glass onion, but I thought it was great.
The title says it all
Glass onion: something with many layers which is see through
Agreed. It rrally flips the audience expectarions in their heads
That’s “glass onion” for ya
Yeah that's what got me in my viewing of the glass onion. SPOILERS AHEAD BTW!!!! I thought it was Miles covering up his own tracks with pretending to have not sent Benoit the box to make Benoit wonder who did send it to him then and then after he killed the twin's sister, he was gonna kill Dave Bautista's character to frame someone else as the "Mastermind", not have to even pay him for the business proposal they agreed upon and get away with the whole plan scot free but that's where I messed up by assuming he was so smart and thought all of these things out so well.
Actually even Knives Out was a clever subversion. It looked like a classic murder mystery, but was actually just a genuine suicide. The mystery was about what events led into the suicide.
Spoiler Warning!
My favorite exchange is at the end where we get:
"It's so STUPID!"
"It's so stupid, it's genius"
"NO, it's just stupid."
Ooh that might be my favorite part too
Honestly, yeah me too
My wife and I were watching this and I said the same thing when she said it's genius. I was like "no it's just stupid" and then a second later Blanc said the same thing xD
it's the best line of both movies lol, even though i liked knives out more
@@arthurguillaume632 I think I also put Knives Out just a bit higher, but Glass Onion is absolutely the most Memeable! ("Halle Berry thats got some kick!")
I love that we see the whole "there's no complex mystery here, the guy you think is the red herring did actually do it" from the very beginning. Everyone except Helen solves the complex puzzle to get the invite, she just smashes it open. It only takes Benoit so long because, in his own words, "I'm bad at stupid things."
Exactly!
Let’s be frank: Duke’s mom solves most of the puzzles :-D
I love Gordian knot solutions to seemingly complex problems.
Well, the complex puzzle in the beginning is actually a perfect clue - it is only seemingly hard, and the characters are able to solve it while mistaking checkers for chess. Not only miles is not particularly bright, none of “the Disruptors” actually are. But the way it is presented, we take them for at least somewhat intelligent . This is a perfect beginning of a total deconstruction of genius myth and it’s impact on modern day politics and media.
Yeah, I am a big fan of Johnson’s 😅
@@kornelskitek7681 Oh my god you're right! Not only that but they have to rely on other random people recognizing the puzzles to solve them! Yo-Yo Ma with the music, Duke's mom with like, 5, and so on. Lionel is actually smart and once he sees what the puzzle is he knows how to solve it, but it's always made to seem way more complicated than it really is!
What I like about Benoit Blant is that initially he seems like a subversion of the typical genius detective by being kind of a bumbling buffoon who's constantly outsmarted by an equally bumbling villain. But that ends up being subverted too as we learn Blanc knew about Martha from the start and didn't say anything because he was trying to find the REAL killer.
Glass Onion does this too, all the bumbling and awkward things Blanc does in the first half are revealed to be intentional in the second half, just to keep everyone distracted he and Helen investigate.
He's such an interesting and nuanced character. He's kind and has a sort of wide eyed optimism which is super uncommon in the Genius Detective archetype. And to get a look at him sort of going stir crazy without a case humanizes him even further.
The Columbo Strategy! "Just one more thing..."
@@timdunn0 Yeah, he's basically a cross between Columbo (the guy who was a cop but always on the little guy's side, even that of small-time criminals because Columbo knew they didn't always have a choice, and would take down other cops as matter of fact) and Hercule Poirot (who was an arrogant primadonna but also an outspoken critic of privilege).
Glass Onion was actually mocked for being incredibly stupid,
so the first lines of this video here is...
...
@@nenmaster5218 “Mocked” by… some people on the internet? Sure, that must hold a lot of weight lmao
The story structure of Glass Onion is my favorite part because you keep waiting for the story to start. They keep setting up characters and motivations but no inciting incident that propels them forward. The second half of the film reveals actually the story has already happened and started way before the actual beginning of the film. It’s brilliant because it really makes you reconsider the whole film.
Exactly!
Also really aplreciate receiving valid feedback in a kind way. Wish more people commented like that haha
The whole time I was thinking that this time round we would have all the motivations bf the murder and then have a thriller with a killer loose on the island like the trailer and the black out scene suggested. But, of course, this being a Rian Johnson flick it was all but misdirection, but I knew why everyone would want to kill Miles to then for Duke to die, then Andi and Then we realize the actual murder had already happened! Genius! I do wish he had spent a little more time on the thriller section of we trying to find the murderer while he slowly tries to kill everyone and everyone is going insane with paranoia.
Yeah if this was structured into three acts you could do,
1. Everyone arrives at the island
2. Duke is poisoned lights go out among us style thriller (introduce flashback throughout or at the midpoint
3.Lights come back on, Final reveal happens
3.
Brilliant? Its dog shit with plenty of plot holes, contrivances, and clichee one dimensional characters who undergo no substantial development.
5:00 Is a really good example of the Thrombey family's implicit racial bias, but it goes a little deeper / funnier. Ransom, the actual killer, doesn't even list a Spanish speaking country. He lists Brazil, whose official language is Portuguese.
True!
Of course, he does so in an obvious attempt to slight his grandfather's choice...
...so is that racism? Or just trying to find a quick allusion to make an offensive trope comparison as a way to 'convince' Harlan...that fails like the 'stage knife instead of real knife' event?
Just really good writing as it fleshes out and is consistent with the character's behavior throughout the film.
The thing I love is that Johnson has stated that he is all in on making more Benoir Blanc mystery movies for as long as the actor is willing to portray him, the actor is, as of right now, all in doing that too. I am so excited to watch this film franchise continue I just know I’m watching classics be made in front of my eyes
It Really does have an iconic quality all of its own
Love this video, but the only thing I would disagree with is that Miles is a stand-in for Musk. Rian Johnson has said in interviews that he's a mix of many uber-rich intellectuals, and I think that's well reflected in the movie. Miles has the dressing style of Steve Jobs in that one flashback with Andi denying the Klear proposal, he has an up-and-comer story that is much unlike the silver spoon that Musk was born with, etc. etc. I think we are giving the big Elon too much credit in thinking this story is about him. It's more about the overall idea that we as a society hold: that wealth must equate to intelligence. Otherwise, we will have no guarantee that the people running some of the biggest and most powerful corporations aren't idiots, and that's troubling.
I definitely agree with you that Miles is an amalgamation of the billionaire class, but I do feel that the whole Lionel/miles dynamic is reminsicent of Musk/Jobs more than other billionaires. I’m sure there’s a few whiteboards and notebooks from Jobs and Musk full of stupid ideas that will never see the light of day because it will ruin the mystique of the billionaire genous.
Miles Bron is a caricature of that kind of person for sure, but he is absolutely coded on Musk specifically. Rian Johnson can't actually name any specific billionaire in interviews because then they'd sue him into oblivion, so he keeps it vague instead. Orson Welles did the same with Citizen Kane; it's unambiguously a hit piece but he'd be foolish to outright say it.
@@MistaZULE I think part of the issue is that Musk essentially ripped apart most of the billionaire genius mystique around himself at a point where the movie was almost done but not yet released, so Miles ends up looking closer to Musk than he was written to be because Musk became more openly Miles-like.
The reason that Elon Musk pops out as 1-for-1 caricature rather than a piece to the larger billionaire status is because Elon Musk is in the midst of a very public meltdown where he's doing a lot of dumb things by the seat of his pants in a similar fashion to Miles Bron.
@@LordInsane100 Very very good point. I agree completely that Johnson did not write the film with Musk in mind, but he was definitely an archetype for Miles.
I think there's also a case to be made that Miles Bron would have the narrative alibi of being the Head of the House. In most mysteries, the most powerful person, the one who gathers everyone together in the grand estate, is the *victim*, not the culprit. It plays on an audience's knowledge of the genre and uses it against you.
i honestly thought when they got their invites that they were gonna get to the island and miles was gonna be dead
@@kalletyrni8897 Same! I just didn't suspect him because, well, the conventions of the narrative rarely go down that road.
They even reference Clue
Spoiler Alert for Glass Onion: When me and my brother were watching Glass Onion, he saw Miles giving Duke his glass and thought Miles might be the killer, but then it is brilliantly established that Miles kept tge glass on the table and Duke took it by mistake which difuses our suspicion, but then we are told that Miles DID give Duke the glass. We were like "Man!". Truly a moment to inbrethiate.
Great word choice. And also thats why I love this film. It doesn't cheat. You also here him call HELEN instead of Andy right before she gets shot. Its all there for you to catch if you look closely
Yes, my girlfriend saw it correctly, but I thought I saw it as a mistake, which the false flashback seemed to confirm. But the movie has no qualms about showing things that may or may not have happened based on characters' perspectives and what they claim. Like in Knives Out, where Marta can't remember whether Harlan said before or after the statue, and you hear it as both, and then an amalgamation. So this movie gaslights you as Miles gaslights the others.
Honestly including the switch in front of our eyes and then telling us it didn’t happen is absolutely brilliant, because when it comes to memory that’s entirely realistic. Memory isn’t set in stone and constantly changes whenever it is recalled, and can even change as new information is taken in later on, so Miles saying “he took my glass” could legitimately change people’s memories of what happened, especially if they were somewhat inebriated (yup) and weren’t paying attention to his glass. The only part that I’m conflicted about is that at the end they all seem to remember what actually happened. However, that might be even more brilliant as they fill in what most likely happened with the new information they had and made conclusions from there. They’ve shown that they would recall whatever is optimal for them to say, so them pretending to remember, or subconsciously choosing to re-remember what actually happened feels fitting.
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial What the comment shows is explicitly cheating to the viewer.
@@AfutureV While it cheats it gives you enough information to let you know that it's cheating and in that way it doesn't cheat.
i think its worth mentioning not just the inspiration of agatha christie but also columbo in these movies. the whole turn a mystery into a thriller by revealing the killer and keeping them close to the detective was columbo central concept. and blancs cigar smoking, bumbling idiot act is directly inspired by columbo. it's cool that rian johnson seems to be a massive fan of murder mystery and makes these films not just an innovative modern update of the murder mystery genre, but also a love letter to it.
Very true! I'd love to make more in depth discussions about that sort of thing but currently youtubes algorithm is so finicky with who it reccomends stuff to, that i have to be super efficient with what stays in the video and keep things moving constantly
I like how we're all expecting Miles Bron to bite it at some point and the mystery portion to start -- but then it turns out the murder already happened and Bron's not the victim, he's the _culprit._
I love these two movies. There are several Agatha Christie murder mystery’s where the initial (too) obvious suspect, in a clever twist is guilty after all! Death on the Nile is a good example, she was very capable of that too!
Glass onion felt JUST like death on the nile. Both with great Angela Lansbury roles
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial seeing that little cameo was just very special after she passed. Her drunk mrs. Otterbourne was nothing like any other role she played! I call it the Mia Farrow version, an incredible film. The book has some more characters so it’s a whole different experience. Angela played miss Marple in another Christie, The mirror crack’d, one of my favorite movies ever.
the difference is that Agatha actually wrote good plots
One thing I noticed having seen this, the posters of Knives Out and Glass onion both feature Benoit front and centre. In Knives out, this is a misdirect - we assume it will be a mystery story centring on Benoit's investigation, but our true main character, Marta, is on the edge of the group, also representing her disconnect from the family she is supposedly part of. Benoit is centred in Glass Onions poster as well, so going off what we know from the first movie, we assume it will be another complicated, layered mystery, with genre subversions and twists, and another, non-Benoit character as our lead - but it is the exact opposite - a dead simple story that tells us everything right from the beginning, with tricky camerawork, cuts and subversions to hide what is really going on - and what we assume cant be happening.
It doesn't tell us what's going on right from the beginning, though. We don't find out what's happening until about midway through the film.
@@13strong We can see where it's going but why don't know why it'd be that way. And then the explanation comes, and we still think we need another twist. But it's not mystery, it's genre subversion.
Honestly I loved glass onion, both for its themes, but also because...it actually is the red herring.
Like, that caught me so off guard it genuinely made me laugh.
I just loved how I both spent the first half of the movie looking for the wrong murderer (who will eventually kill miles), but then got absolutely suckered into writing off miles just as much as the cast, but for a completely different reason.
I still think I prefer knives out, but glass onion was a delight and I cannot wait for the next one.
Also these movies all get so much better on a rewatch.
True! Rian Johnson's who filmography is like...
1st Watch: Hmmmmm, Idunno how I feel about...
2nd Watch: Oh, Johnson, you've done it again!
I went one step further, immediately suspecting from the first minute that Miles hosting the ‘murder mystery’ party was his excuse to kill off someone else, then dismissing him over the rest of the movie with everyone else’s motives being revealed and Blanc pointing out him being the killer was too obvious. Only to realise I was right and dismissed my own intuition, like a moron.
I think I never thought Miles was off the table considering they told us what the Glass Onion meant way on the nose, making it obvious that the Red Herring is probably on the table, so I don't think it does a good job at discarding him for a red herring, which is why I think that's the reason a lot of people don't feel satisfied. He was constantly on the radar and you could never find a reason to genuinely discard him to then call that the movie "got you good" at the end. BUT, I do think it does make a good job at keeping you at your toes, discarding it over and over again to make you doubt if he truly is a red herring or not, telling you it'd be dumb if it is, which still makes it entertaining to watch the whole film to know if he dunnit along the way. I can see why people aren't satisfied, but it is very much still entertaining and well written, just different than Knives Out.
the plot is so underwhelming. I don't understand why so many people liked the movie
@@Charliezard7Because they thought it was good?
i think one of the things that makes me laugh the most is when some people say it was obvious that Miles was the killer and the movie tried to make it seem like complicated murder. THATS WHY ITS CALLED A GLASS ONION!
Exactly! I get if people fundamentally dont like what Rian "The Rock" Johnson is going for. But its hard to deny that he executed what he wanted to do almost without flaw
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial If I make a stupid plot, then say of course it's meant to be stupid, it means I can do it without flaw. That's what he did, there's nothing special about it
I mean, the most important aspect of the plot, that Klear is dangerous because it leaks through pipes, completely ignores that it'd be burned at powerplants and have electricity sent to homes like we do now. So we have the entire events of the film hinge on the fact no one knows how power is generated, effecting from motives all the way to the climax. So tell me, how is that an execution without flaw, because it's pretty huge one.
@@geminia999 The idiot twist is set up at the beginning with the box. A complex puzzle you can just smash open with a hammer to similar results. 5 year olds don't set that kinda stuff up at the start
Also. That's just wrong. Everyone knows how the place is powered and the film hinges on how dangerous the thing powering it is
@@CMGThePerson Its till a dumb plot with a dumb reveal though
@CMG The Person I'm sorry, but this is just cope.
Rian Johnson is just making bad movies and marketing them as subversive masterpieces to get praise and attention.
And good on him for it, though I despise what he did to star wars with ep 8
i’ve seen a lot of people say that the first half of the film really bored them but by the second half they were invested. I watched both the original knives out and glass onion back to back and i was so hyped from the first one i was immediately was invested in glass onion 😭
Me too, watching Glass Onion, I kept waiting for the twist to happen, and then halfway through the movie it came and I was just so happy.
I haven't watched Knives Out and I have to say that Glass Onion was just pure fun. It's one of the few movies where I could go to any timestamp randomly and not be bored.
Knives Out is a tightly paced thriller/mystery. Glass Onion just be Vibin' which is exactly what I want from it
Glass Onion reminds me of Agatha Christie's At Bertram's Hotel. It's actually not that complicated.
It’s very Agatha Christie. In the first half I was getting And Then There Were None vibes
@@voidify3 literally what I was thinking. If there's some mysterious invitations to an island where they're supposed to solve a murder, immediate and then there were none vibes
I haven't read that book but Glass Onion would remind me of another book, The Hollow
It sucks how many are saying that the movie is flawed or stupid for being dumb, when it's actually being an antithesis to a usual mystery movie. A mystery that always has to have a cunning villain hidden in plain sight that remains one step ahead of the detective until the end.
Which is why second viewings help. You see the cleverness of the film outside of just the main mystery itself
Personally I just did not enjoy the pay off in the second film.
Totally understandable
*cough* Critical Drinker
@@MrLewyboy That's fair. You can think that, I'm mostly talking about those who completely missed the point in the first place.
I love both Knives Out and Glass Onion for different but related reasons. I love KO for it's subversion of the genre, and GO for it's setup of something complex, only to pull the rug right from under you, not to mention the comedy of both that works so well! Some of my favorite movies in a while.
Would have loved to watch Glass Onion in the theater, but it only released for streaming. I was lucky enough to watch it on a decently sized tv, instead of my phone as usual.
There were actually a few screenings before it released on streaming platforms, I saw it in theatre and it was really fun!
It was the small local theatre though, they tend to do a lot of special screenings like that.
Knives out taught us the obvious isn’t always the obvious.
Glass Onion taught us that, while there might be many layers, an onion is still an onion.
As an avid fan and writer of murder mysteries (I write and run D&D murder mysteries games for my childhood besties) adored this movie on first watch. 😭
I loved how it played with our perceptions and made me unable to predict the outcome
True!! Also murder mysteries are super fun in DnD. My cousin ran one for us last Halloween and it was great
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial I don't understand the hype for these movies. It seems like copies of some of what Agatha Christie would do, except that the person I suspect is always the same at the start and at the end. The Writer's use of Red Herrings aren't strong enough in these movies for me to match what Agatha did, because they flaws in the people are so obvious.
You got any tips for writing D&D murder mysteries??
I reeaally wanna make a murder mystery one shot for if our DM is sick or smth, but I always feel D&D is a difficult system for it (what if an important clue is missed because they rolled a 3 on investigation, or they roll a 23 insight while questioning a guilty suspect)?
@@merijn4440 YEEEE D&D is a really weird format for writing a murder mystery. All my murder mysteries are one-shots where one of the players or NPCs is the murderer. Always write mysteries with your player's characters in mind know their abilities and brain storm how they might try to break the game.
I Make players very very specific about what they are investigating for. I know thats not usually how it works, but when doing a murder mystery I always make my players be very specific with what they are looking for. So instead of the player saying "I Investigate the ally" they go "I investigate the alley for footprints" or "I investigate the walls of the alley for anything out of the ordinary" part of the fun is the finding of clues and this method allows more players to do investigation checks!
I also implore you to take a look at the passive perception/ wisdom stat on all your players!!! If my players are starting to gloss over something important I will use the player with the best passive perception or the character who is considered the most perspective to start an investigation. Make sure you have multiple clues in case the players are just really oblivious or be prepared to improvise the same clue elsewhere.
To mess with your players I like to whisper the results to the individual player who rolled. Sometimes it's for a reason and other times I just decided It would be fun. It also helps with suspicion so the players can't trust the other party members.
For insight rolls, I usually whisper the answers. Also, put a cap on insight rolls if players start to overuse them. Remember insight isn't mind reading. A guilty person might not be guilty of the murder but of something else. Or he is guilty but you have no evidence so it means nothing can be done about it. But, mostly use your intuition because each situation is different. The Detect thoughts spell is a pain in my side, so id recommends looking through everyone's spell lists in order to properly prepare for such spells.
This is really funny because I always focus on the red herring as the real killer and I'm always wrong when I watch murder mysteries but Glass Onion was the first time I was right. Also, I loved the criticism of billionaire culture in the movie
Missed the perfect opportunity to say the first film turned from a whodunnit, into a hughdunnit
Ah dang you right
These movies made me realize I love the tropes and conventions of this genre and the actual mystery is really secondary. It felt like a deconstruction, tribute, critique, and homage all in one and I loved it.
Well said!
Your comment on the Red Herring being obvious doesn't stop with Miles it also extends to other tropes that are used in the movie like the pocket bible stopping a bullet and the twin sibling. I like the use of the twin sibling trope which is often a complaint someone will throw out in the middle of the who-done-it when they can't figure out the mystery because the odds of a twin sibling is so out there to begin with it's almost the only way it could make sense! Yet the movie commits to using the trope anyways because it was supposed to be conventional layered mystery we could see through. Kinda like what a Glass Onion would be like... 'So stupid it's brilliant!" ;)
It's called bad, contrivance filled writing. Please tell me how none of her closest friends knew about the twin sister? The billionaire never had her investigated? It's a movie for morons who don't ask questions. Just consume and move on.
@@rogue_of_the_winds1286 They didn't know that Cassandra was dead, why would they ever suspect that she was not Cassandra? And the billionaire knew she was the twin sister, but he couldn't tell because, if he did, everyone would know he was a murderer... But I'm sure that, since we are all morons, that you have a very well thought thesis of "why people suspect immediately on their friend being the twin sister they never met when the only thing they know is 1. friend is mad at them; 2. friend is, as far as they know, very much alive"
Miles is more an amalgamation of Musk, Zuckerberg, Jobs, and Elizabeth Holmes than JUST Musk. The fact they went to great lengths to actually have Miles holding the napkin in a turtleneck to copy a picture of Elizabeth Holmes in her Theranos pictures, frankly, is the biggest spoiler for the whole plot if anyone had been following the Theranos scandal. The main difference between Musk and the other Tech people that inspired the writing and portrayal of Miles is Musk mostly bought his way into his status through hostile takeovers rather than building something from the ground up. Miles, at least, is shown to have been with Alpha since the inception, even if he only was capable of being a sales-guy/manager in what few skills he has, with Andi being the real brains that made it work.
True, but like the Maxwell Sr character whom Tomorrow Never Dies' Bond villian is based on, people see him as Rupert Murdoch to this day. So people will probably see Miles as Elon despite the rest.
Which will always be valid, but I just think it overlooks several other clues to Miles being an idiot if people just go with Musk-stand-in when the idiot reveal happens.
I mean, Elizabeth Holmes was herself copying Steve Jobs in that picture
And Marie Curie lol but there's a particular picture where Holmes looks kinda goofy, her eyes look a little crossed as she stares seriously at a tiny vial, which Norton and others have stated they used as a reference for Miles looking the same way holding up the napkin. It's just Big Tech people trying to appear smart all the way down this rabbit hole.
I thought there was much that sounded similar in terms of personality and interactions (and intellect) with Epstein (disregarding all the trafficking stuff), but perhaps this is colored by what I found to be a particularly insightful analysis of him (possibly in wired?) that may not have been read by everyone.
I love the nod to Elizabeth Holmes, she wore the Steve Jobs black sweater and was peddling a product that seemed revolutionary, but was impossible.
I've thought about this film TOO much & I'm not ready to stop - this was a perfect video & I absolutely love how you deconstructed both films and explained Johnson's approach to them
Thank you! That means a lot
I totally get what you mean by not being into Glass Onion the first time you watched it. When my partner and I watched it for the first time in the cinema, we were expecting something more similar to the first movie. So until well into the second act we were lukewarm about the whole film, but quickly fell in love with it when we actually got what it was doing. Couldn't stop fawning over it for a few hours after, then. We love it even more after having watched a few times more, with all the details and intricacies.
Exactly! Expecations are so important. Also my favorite thing about rewatching it is that Johnson doesn't cheat.
Everything is able to be caught if you look closely in the first half. You see Miles Switch the glass and even him calling out Helen right before she gets shot.
Rian Johnson misleads you, but he always plays fair
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial Yes!! You can also see that Duke's phone doesn't show his channel's views (looks more like a news page) or Birdie's bag rustle when Helen throws the recording device in it. Super fun
Ooh I didn't notice the bag rustle
Well Johnson himself says that he does not seek to "subvert" the genre. He says Agatha Christie-style stories (his inspiration) have had these types of twists and subversions for 100 years now.
I'm binging knives out/glass onion content right now. This didn't disappoint!
Thats great to hear!
Knives Out misdirects the audience as to who the murder suspect is. Glass Onion misdirects the audience on who the murder target is. I love how both choices end up leaving to a great payoff
Brilliant break down on murder mystery and how Rian does his job, and does it well. I hope his third installment is just as good as these two, they are surprisingly in my top 10 favorite movies in my life that I could re-watch over and over.
Theyre rewatchable because they don't cheat. Rian Johnson plays fair and leaves clues consistently
I’m just so glad that Glass Onion wasn’t just a shitty sequel using the original cast and a bad plot for a cash grab. There was so much thought put into every decision once again and the themes were so fascinating.
I think calling these "anti-mysteries" is a bad idea. They're just mysteries. As The Anatomy of Genre best sums up about the mystery genre, the mystery plot is about combating the puzzle the villain made to hide the truth, with biases and so forth the characters (and us in the audience) possess obscuring the truth. If anything, these are traditional mysteries that use the 2nd Act unorthodoxly. And even then, his perspective flip approach still fits mystery fiction, as it's an investigation of the past. It uses the perspective flip to show more of the past from another character's perspective.
It isn't thinking outside the box. By claiming it is, I feel it's making a mistake Wired for Story tackles in perpetuating myths of breaking the rules. As it best touches, successful writers follow the rules and understand them well enough that they can do it in idiosyncratic ways. But they still genuinely follow the genre's conventions.
In the case of Knives Out, the first film focuses on someone who fell for the trick, and the second film plays on expectations of something clever to fit the genre. And obscures that there are two detectives, not one.
Now, I think he's playing with genre expectations still, which is beautifully done in this case since he still maintains the Act 3 payoff. But yeah. I think calling it "anti-mystery" obscures his approach's true beauty by glamorizing it instead of simplifying it to digestible, simple, and actionable components anybody can learn.
At any rate, from what I can tell, the formula is "Act 1 - Traditional Mystery, Act 2 (possibly around the midpoint) - Switch POV and deliver on the genre goods from another perspective, Act 3 - Payoff the traditional mystery."
Huh... If you look at it from a kishotenketsu perspective, it fits that mold especially well... But that's another matter; my mind is starting to trail off from analysis and connect to other things. This often happens to me as I'm actively putting together an analysis.
At any rate, enjoyed this video, I just wanted to share these thoughts since it fits nicely into some stuff I've been thinking about while doing and sharing daily research.
Oh, and for my usual disclaimer when I share opinions like this, I could be wrong or incomplete in this assessment and would love to be challenged by a logical argument. I think it's worth risking wrongness since you never know what it might lead to.
Okay so I haven’t seen the first Knives Out but I was in the room when my parents were watching The Glass Onion, and I was honestly couldn’t stop watching it, because it was so damn good!
Agreed
I loved both, though for different reasons. One thing I find interesting is that they both tell you exactly what is going to happen pretty early on; KO tells you the mystery is not really the killer but rather who hired Mr. Blanc, and GO telegraphs it's mid movie twist with the reference to fugues and how they overlap. However, it's done in such a way that those things - not the criminal - are arguably what's hiding in plain sight (so, another trope/genre subversion).
5:03
The best term is 'latin american country', because when Chris Evan's character speaks about her (Marta) he says she's brazilian. One of the characters also mentions Uruguay, which also speaks Portuguese.
Ooh good catch! I forgot whether all or some of South America is included under "Latin America" so tried to go broader in scope, but recognize now that it actually excludes important countries that speak languages besides Spanish.
Thank you for the correction!
But I think that the character who says Marta comes from Brazil doesn't actually have any idea that Brazil is not a Spanish-speaking country. Incidentally Uruguay IS a mostly Spanish-speaking country, with a small minority speaking Portuguese in regions near the border with Brazil.
Well, the subject about languages in latin american countries was more for the guy who made the video; and even though Uruguay speaks mostly spanish, it ALSO speaks Portuguese as a second language (like in Canada with French, which is used on a regular basis). About the Chris Evan's character in the movie, yeah, that was probably made for a joke.
Someone should definitely tell all the people I was talking to in Spanish in Montevideo a few weeks ago that they were speaking Portuguese. 😀
Sure, lots of people speak Portuguese in the regions bordering Brazil. But then, lots of Brazilians speak Spanish in the regions bordering Paraguay, Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia, Colombia, Perú, and Venezuela. That does not make Brazil a largely Spanish-speaking country. Nor does the presence of a few regions where a majority of people speak Portuguese make Uruguay a Portuguese-speaking country. In Uruguay, more people say that they have knowledge of English than of Portuguese (56% versus 30%, according to a 2020 survey by the Instituto Nacional de Estadística).
8:51 Benoit Blanc dating Hugh Grant’s character is also something that I find cute
I was bummed that hes playing a character though. My first reaction was "holy sh** Benoît blanc is dating real life Hugh Grant!"😆
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial you & everyone else 😆
“Or am I equally guilty of being a pseudo-intellectual?” The thing I worry about every time I have a thought lol
"it's so dumb it's brilliant"
"No!!! It's just dumb!!!"
Yeah it was weird how the film was talking about itself like that.
And the second half pays right off, really good work man.
The moment where Benoit breaks down the poisoning I couldn't stop laughing, he seems so genuinely angry that someone was so lazy to rip off his idea.
I can understand people that liked this movie on first watch. I can not understand however those that like it more on a second watch. The more you think about it the more everything makes less sense.
I feel like almost every Rian Johnson movie gets worse on rewatch, as the things he sweeps under the rug for sake of storytelling start peeking out.
I loved Glass Onion upon first viewing. I would absolutely watch more from the "Knives Out" series.
I love movies that make you think but then go "a-ha"
Didn't watch Glass Onion, but Knives Out was one of the best mysteries I've seen. Honestly, I find it incredibly close to that of Sherlock Holmes stories, where often the antagonist was pretty obvious from the get go, but not the mean of villainy.
Bingo! It's kinda sad to me how many people missed the point, especially with Glass Onion. People say they wanted a better mystery but failed to realize the fun of these movies, and dare I say genius of them, is due to how they circumvent traditional mystery narratives. It's less about whodunnit and more about the journey there. Rian is less interested in the answers and more atune to the filmic techniques and devices available to him to strung us along despite knowing pretty much all the answers already in both films. That's why these films work, that's why they're so riveting.
And ultimately it comes down to taste, but I think he always delivers a satisfying story, even if its. Ot the one you expect. Its kinda like how the best cup of coffee will make you do a spit take if you go in expecting to sip sprite
Just found your channel love the name of the channel and the logo, most importantly the video. The video seems like it was made by a large creator. Keep up the good work
this is written very well!
Thank you!
I do want to push back on the idea that Norton's character is a reference to Musk. From what Johnson has said, Bron is more a amalgam of all of those big name tech "pioneers", so people like Jobs, Zuckerberg, Friedman, Dorsey, people who are considered "Pioneers" but really just acquired what made them famous,
You can see an allusion to jobs in the clothing that Bron is wearing when he's talking to Andi about Klear, he's wearing job's signature black turtle necki
Benoit Blanc really reminds me of the television detective character Columbo... he always plays into the idea that he's not very bright or above-average in his skills, only to reveal that he knew exactly what was going on all along.
True!
An interesting early hint to the way Knives Out subverts the normal tropes is with the maid that discovers the body; initially, like so many 'innocent bystander who is carrying something and stumbles across the corpse, it seems she'll drop her tray, but then she catches it at the last moment.
I started watching the video, realized I hadn't watched glass onion to to the end (I literally stopped in the scene with Benoit in the bathtub). Then I paused the video, opened Netflix, rewinded the movie and watched the whole thing, so that I could finish the video without being spoiled, because yes, I managed to not get a single spoiler for the last year and a half-ish. Thanks for inadvertently making me watch a good movie!
Hah. Glad to hear it!
I disagree that the obvious killer being the real culprit, even though he’s quickly ruled out, makes Glass Onion an “anti-mystery”. The same trick was pulled off several times by Agatha Christie, who invented a lot of the mystery tropes we are used to. A good mystery is like a puzzle and always rewards the viewer or reader on rewatch/read with all the little clues they may have missed the first time around, but now perfectly slot into place. Glass Onion is a perfect example of a great mystery.
Listen, I’m no mastermind. But I did clock that something was wrong with Duke’s death, because I remembered him say he was allergic to pineapple, and realized that’s probably how he was killed, so Miles couldn’t have been an intentional target, whether it was an accident or if Duke was the target.
Nice analysis! I hope you get more views, it just popped into my recommended.
Thanks!
I'm honestly glad you at least mention the slow pacing in the beginning. I feel like everyone on the Internet loves this movie while we just thought meh. I loved the first movie, 1st watch and 2nd. I've read several Christie books, watched new and old adaptations of them, so im at least a bit familiar with common themes in the genre and how formalic it can be. Glass onion just confused me most of the time. I think what bothered me a lot was that the mystery is simply based on hiding an essential part (the murder and backstory between miles and helen). Every si gle character has at least some of that information. They created the plot twist just for the sake of having it, it seems inorganic to me. The big reveal in the end -miles is actually an idiot, wasn't really a reveal. In universe maybe but they established it right in the beginning. The characters seem too simplistic to me, in a contrast to knives out where I thought the characterisation was extremely well done.
I understand that people like all the hints shown throughout the movie but I simply dislike that only a lot later you have any chance of using them to understand what happened. The bare bones of the plot seems lacking to me, the pacing weird. Them gathering evidence to find the killer was basically a montage. Which made the twin being in the exact right spot to overhear the necessary information again and again even more weird.
I liked your ending statement but I shouldn't have to watch a movie twice for it to be good.
Totally understand that and i think thats 100 percent valid. Johnson relies mainly "vibes" to engage 5he audience for the first half and thats a risky bet that inherently willl play poorly with a portion if the audience.
I watched these 2 films with my family last week, and i noticed something different with the movies, its like not a mystery but a mystery at the same time. I dont know how he did it but it was really amazing
I wouldn't say that it's an anti-mystery. It is a mystery. The answer is just far more obvious than you, the viewer, probably expect. And Rian Johnson is really good at drawing the viewer away from that obvious answer, and at making the viewer dismiss that obvious answer.
I like what you said at the end of the video about being glad you watched "Glass Onion" twice. I'm of the considered opinion that you should never judge a movie or book or whatever until you've gone through it more than once. The first time clears away your expectations, and the succeeding views allow you to fully judge the story based on what it is instead of what you thought it would be. Never has that been more important than with "Knives Out" and "Glass Onion", two movies that *promise* you one type of mystery and deliver a completely different one.
There's one other convention of the mystery genre that these two movies subvert, and that's the Watson character. In the first movie, Blanc asks Marta to be his Watson, but that's because he's suspicious of her, and she spends all her time trying to erase any evidence of her involvement. In the second, Helen is the client who gets recruited into helping him solve the mystery. In both cases, they end up being the *actual* protagonist, while Blanc merely jumps in when necessary to keep the bad guy from getting away with it. They don't work for him, and presumably neither of them sees him again after the case is solved, except possibly in a Zoom.
The only point in Glass Onion that I felt alienated was the bullet proof journal scene. I appreciate there's probably some satire going on there about the movie being 'stupid, no not brilliantly stupid, just stupid' but it didn't work for me the way the rest of the movie did.
Something that people tend to gloss over: Miles Bron isn't meant to be Elon Musk. at least not exclusively. There are several references in his characterization to Steve Jobs, Jeffrey Bezos and Elizabeth Holmes, and probably others.
There are just so many things that happened to Bezos AFTER filming (Elon being forced into buying twitter because he accidentally made legally binding claims and being revealed that he does not know how to run a social media platform, revealing him to be a sore loser and an idiot who did not think things through to a wide audience), that it seems to be pointing towards him so much, but honestly, that's mostly accidental. Filming ended in 2021 already, while Musk bought twitter in 2022.
I love the idea of an anti-mystery, great analysis!
Thank you!!
I watched Brick forever ago and didn't get it, so i watched it 5 times in high school. Im so happy to see him making such great work today
Tough for me: Knives Out is one of my favorite movies ever, and I've only seen Glass Onion once. I didn't it, but I wasn't in love with it like Knives Out. I will definitely give it another go of course, because you can easily see the incredible filmmaking at work.
On my first viewing of Glass Onion, I VERY nearly turned it off at the midway point. Right when the safety glass on the Mona Lisa closed for the 736th time I was so annoyed at the noise and the pacing and the chaos. I'm glad I stuck it out for just another 90 seconds. The pay-off was spectacular.
"They're some of the best whodunnits released in recent memory."
They had stiff competition from ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Well, you just summed up that weird feeling I got from Glass Onion perfectly. It is Anti-Mystery. I appreciate your video very much and I know you lay out how Knives Out is an anti-mystery as well, but...yeah, I think I've got to call both of these movies anti-mystery movies from now on. I much preferred Knives Out and Glass Onion was...just too much of an anti-mystery for me, I suppose. Great vid!
A)thank you!
B) i totally get that. I think rian Johnson is an excellent filmmaker, but he makes choices that inevitably alienate peoole. Its totally valid to be put off by his choices or how he explores genre
Another great trick Glass Onion pulls in a meta context is that it almost primes you to be disappointed by at first behaving like the stereotypical lazy follow-up that half-realizes its characters and contains an underwhelming plot that relies more on gimmicks than the kind of creative spark that made the original feel fresh. BUT, when it's revealed midway that "Andi" is actually Helen and we see the first act all over again, we find out there's a whole lot more going on and realize that Rian Johnson once again played with our expectations.
But the problem is that there was no way for the audience to know Andi was Helen
@@Enfixed So? We weren’t supposed to know she wasn’t Andi.
I adored "Knives Out", but I didn't love "Glass Onion". Honestly, I think that in the latter Rian Johnson crosses the line that separates "unreliable narrator" and "lying storyteller".
The amount of information that Johnson keeps away from the audience during the first half for the sake of the twist is way too much, and I think a lot of it was done in an unorganic way. My go to example is the "she's changed" line of dialogue from Claire. In the first half it's presented as her reaction to "Andi" calling the Disruptors out in front of Blanc, but then it's revealed that they had a full conversation with her regarding the red envelop e-mail. I'm sorry, but that's not clever writing. That's just straight up cheating. It wouldn't be so bad if it was a one off thing, like Fran agreeing to meet with Ransom in "Knives Out", but it's done multiple times.
That being said, I don't hate the movie. It's still entertaining, Craig as Blanc is still a joy to watch, and the entire cast elevates the entire film. But I'm not compelled to rewatch it the same way I did with "Knives Out".
Duuuude. A 'how catch'em' is a staple of the genre too. Columbo spent most episodes defining this format and Blanc absolutely plays that role here. Knives out is set up as a who done it, quickly revolves into a how catch'em. And then turns out to have been a who done it the whole time
While it was certainly watchable I felt Rian's need to paint the villain (and by extension rich weirdos in general) to be as dumb as possible ended up detracting from the overall experience. The entire plot hinges on us accepting him to be this moron but this dosen't really mesh with the set up we're given. How was able to make the careers of all his friends? Why did Cassandra chose to make him partner, and how was he able to successfully outmaneuver her without her realizing? Furthermore while his overall actions and attitude are certainly stupid the murders he actually committed aren't. The movie just says they are.
I'm so happy I managed to see the phone in the back pocket on my first viewing
One thing we know about Rian Johnson: he loves to subvert things, no matter if it works or not.
I like that the name of the movie, the glass onion, is also it's most important theme. Something that looks like it has layers but the center is in plain sight. It's in plain sight that the guy with the obvious motive and obvious opportunity did the crime. Even the dwath of Duke was hidden in plain sight. After I watched the movie the first time I went back and thought, gosh dang it, he really did hand him the glass right in from of my eyes!
I love all of this, however i wouldn't say that Rian created the genre of "anti-mystery," other media has done it before, such as columbo (which does seem to have been an inspiration for poker face!)
I like it. Instead of making it about the big plot, the big plot is just a red herring and the story focuses on the people. On small little mysteries.
In the first half of glass onion i keept thinking about Colombo but could not say why. PS not only mr must most of them.
What i find so fascinating about knives out is that it manages to at the same time subvert all genre expectations, and keep it's promises to the viewer. I believe had he been given a standalone story instead of a numbered one in star wars he would have smashed it out of the park with his ability to re-imagine what star wars can be. However, giving someone like that the setup for the finale is not a good idea, and the fanbase still hasn't recovered from the damage done
I wanted to leave a comment since I really enjoyed your video. Excellent break down of both Knives Out and Glass Onion. You summarized very well and clearly why I think both movies worked. I personally prefer Knives Out myself, but Glass Onion had a lot to enjoy.
My only criticism for you is that as someone who absolutely hated TLJ, I gave Rian Johnson no credit for years. I despised him a lot. Knives Out took me by surprise and I enjoyed it far more than expected. But I think Rian Johnson failed in TLJ because he WANTED to do his own twist/subversion thing, but it didn't work out in an already established SW universe. However, it definitely works for his own new mystery genre that he has made for himself in the Knives Out franchise now. This is where his talents lie, but not in TLJ.
A) Really appreciate the comment! Audience engagement is super helpful especially for a relatively small/new channel like mine. And your compliments are incredibly encouraging!
B) I get that. I don't really address The Last Jedi in any of my content all the closely because regardless of what side you fall on, the internet is not in a good spot to have a calm discussion about that movie and I really have no interest in what that comment section would wind up looking like haha
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial
A) I'm glad you responded! I think this video was excellent so kudos! As someone who got the video on my recommendation, I'm glad that I watched it.
B) oh I agree: avoid TLJ like the plague lolol. I just had to mention it for 2 reasons. 1) cuz you mentioned it first lol, since Rian Johnson was the director for it too. And because I think he chose horribly for that film, as opposed to Knives Out and Glass Onion where he did well. And 2) cuz I hated that film so badly I almost never gave Knives Out a chance in 2019, but I was glad that I did. Rian Johnson hasn't made up for what he did in TLJ, IMO. But I believe he made 2 great Whodunnit/mystery/thriller etc films here.
i love these movies because when you watch them, you think "no, they cant be the killer! it would be too obvious!" and then it turns out that they actually ARE the killer. truly brilliant
I never understood what was so well liked for knives out. I thought it was all telegraphed so I wasn't surprised by anything in it.
I was today years old when I realized that Knives Out is a “Hugh Done It”
I'm not sure about your description of "red herring". There have been mysteries where the culprit can be spotted early but they're still the last person they let you accuse. There's one series where all the other suspects have to be dragged to the interrogation room (even if you don't want to) before we can pursue the culprit for real.
I really enjoyed Glass Onion kinda regret that I didn’t pay much attention on the first one but planning to rewatch it
Both really solid. Always nice to go back and view something with fresh eyes
I love your video. Your analysis was very insightful. I loved the first movie but didn't quite care for the 2nd one. In my opinion all the set up didn't pay off, alot of it seemed VERY contrived.
Looking forward to your next video
I think on first viewing thats how I felt too.
And thank you for the kind words!
Thank you so much for this! I’ve seen so many reviews that treat Glass Onion as a regular whodunnit and then go on to bash the film for being a boring representative of the genre. I seriously was starting to doubt whether there are any critics out there who've actually understood what the film is about. So thank you for restoring my faith in film reviews! ❤
I was getting quite a bit bored when the Andi/Helen thing was revealed. I was quite glad to see the twist at that point.
I was at first thrown by that it was the musk stand in being an idiot because I am so used to people thinking Musk is smart instead of a guy born to riches from a near slave run emerald mine who failed upwards over and over again in some weird "worst timeline" way.
As someone who loves tech I was pleasantly surprised.
I think watching _Glass Onion_ at this moment in time, as Twitter is crumbling in slow motion (quickly for a massive social media platform) thanks to Musk trying to stick the reentry in defiance of an experienced tech community just makes for the perfect interference pattern.
It's funny to see the racism mentioned, and the gag explained as "a different country that speaks Spanish" when one of the characters says "Brazil" the biggest Portuguese speaking country in the world. Doesn't affect the quality of the video, just highlights how on point the critique is.
Signed: a Brazilian who dealt way too much with Spanish in her life
Great analysis
Thank you!
The Glass Onion. There's layers, but you don't need to peal the layers back because you can just look into the middle
Like ogres
During glass onion when the lady got shot and her backstory was revealed I said how annoyed I was she died and got completely blind sided by her lack of death
love the among us touch (the lights going out and the impostor (helen))
Right!?! And I love that the whole structure of the movie proves that he actually understood the game. So many video game references/depictions in TV are clearly made by people who haven't ever held a controller even once. Like what are you hitting all those face buttons for if you're playing a racing game. Just use the thumbstick and triggers!?!
I'm Dylan, and THIS has been... A rant that came out of nowhere :)
I just watched Glass Onion, and while I was waiting for the plot to start, I began suspecting that Blanc would either be killed or be a killer. The movie even tried to bait us by saying that he got crazy without real work / the entire Among Us scene really. Yet again, I think the movie baited us about any outcome we could've started to suspect.
And I initially thought, with a private island and his manner of speech, that Norton was a reference to Mr Beast
Great analysis!
Thank you!
As a Star Wars fan that really did not like The Last Jedi, I really appreciate this analysis of Rian Johnson's film style. The thing with Johnson is that he's actually a very good film writer, but he also low-key destroys the things he makes films about, by deconstructing its tropes and questioning why a story is the way it is. The trouble is, while that works excellently with a murder mystery (a self-contained story), it worked terribly for Star Wars (a grand epic spanning generations that's spawned a whole universe of stories, and for which the core films form the backbone of everything around it). Deconstructing a whodunnit works well, since the whole point is to surprise us and subvert our expectations. Deconstructing Star Wars doesn't work so well, since when you deconstruct the tropes of a story literally built from tropes, it tends to fall apart.