Pile of Resurrection Evidence - Empty Tomb
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- In a recent video, Capturing Christianity's Cameron Bertuzzi interviewed two scholars (Dr. Calum Miller and Dr. Max Baker-Hytch) on the historical evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus.
In a series of once-in-a-while episodes, we'll look at the evidence presented, to see what kind of pile it should be placed in.
LOADS of Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus (with Two Scholars)
• The Historical Evidenc...
Capturing Christianity's Poor Historical Evidence For The Resurrection
• Capturing Christianity...
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Paulogia; listening to hours of garbage so you don’t have to. Thank you Paulogia.
Ja, he is awesome, and his voice is soothing. Honestly, Canadians can talk me all day.
@@southernsal3113 I even find it endearing to hear him say "oat" and "aboat" and "oatside" and "hoase"
@@ericpierce3660 I used think the English has the best accent and Logicked got me and we'll, I'm hooked. Viced Rhino, Paulogia, DeadKennedyInSpace. Any others you can recommend in the same vein, I'd appreciate 👌👍😎😉
@@southernsal3113 Paulogia is definitely my favorite, his videos are always well researched and on point, and he's so good at cutting through the apologetic bs.
Lately though, with all the extra time on my hands thanks to the coronavirus quarantine, I've been having fun re-watching some classics from the early days of youtube atheism. nonstampcollector was very helpful to me when I was on the edge, realizing my beliefs didn't make sense but not quite ready to give them up yet. His videos pointed out all the contradictions, inconsistencies and downright silliness of the beliefs instilled in me from childhood. His wonderful sense of humor helped ease me through that phase of my life.
This one is my all time favorite:
*High Stakes Intelligent Designing* (10 minutes)
ua-cam.com/video/4_G9awnDCmg/v-deo.html
These are great as well:
*Yahweh's Amazing Miracle* (11 min)
ua-cam.com/video/jrX__ILDd3w/v-deo.html
*What Would Jesus NOT Do?* (8 min)
ua-cam.com/video/zOfjkl-3SNE/v-deo.html
*Bible Slavery: TOTALLY Different* (10 min)
ua-cam.com/video/2MFmC6BD1B4/v-deo.html
@@ericpierce3660 thank you. Although I don't struggle with this stuff (anymore) I love seeing how other deal with this so-called dilemma. Hit me up on discord Sal #4829 if wanted to chat further. 👌
"We can turn back to the gospel sources, here in the gospel."
Yes, the gospel proves the gospel. For you see, the gospel often says that the gospel is right and we can trust in the gospel because it says you can do so.
In the gospel.
The gospels don't do a good job of proving themselves.
If it can't get it internally consistent then its useless
Ah, so you could say we can take it as "Gospel" 😜
@@JSAnstock Yes, you should take the gospel as gospel because it is the gospel.
This logic thing is easy.
blvalverde
“And there we see a contradiction.
But it’s the word of god, so it can’t be a contradiction so we have to go back and see where we went wrong”. Pastor Steven Anderson.
🎶 For the Bible tells me so.🎶
One question I have never really seen addressed:
Since the tomb was sealed with a big stone, how did the women think they were going to get inside to anoint the body?
But any stone that could be moved to get a body in must also be able to be moved to seal it up and to get it open again. The tomb and the stone is the flimsiest bit of "evidence" they use.
That depend on the gospel, in Mark the stone was rolled away.
Since the original fiction was the gospel of Mark, the others are just versions made up later.
Mark ended at 16:8 as you can see in Codex Sinaiticus from the 4th century, the oldest copy that exist.
codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=34&chapter=16&lid=en&side=r&verse=8
I used to work at a Walmart that had big decorative stones at the ends of the parking lot. One day some idiot drove their truck into one and knocked it off its little grass island and into the parking places. I had to put it back using a forklift. The stone was about 4'x4'x3'. When I stuck the forks under the stone, the weight lifted the back of the forklift more than a foot off the ground (it never actually lifted the stone off the ground without turning the forklift into a teeter totter). The forklift could not lift it nor could it push it. I eventually had to use the forklift to "rock-n-roll" it back into place, and it took about 20-30 minutes to move it about 7 feet. And that was on asphalt...with a forklift.
Even IF the stone sealing the tomb was only 4'x4'x3' (it was certainty bigger than that) sitting on soft ground....exactly how were the women suppose to move it to get inside? And then put it back in place when they were done?
Never in Jewish history would women return to a dead body with spices, only men would and still do attend to males. Spices were used during the burial to mask the smell of decomposition which happens quickly.
The stone is just another obvious literary device. In later accounts Jesus was able to just appear and walk through walls. Getting out of a sealed tomb would have been just one more simple miracle for Jesus.
I had a million dollars this morning. Here's my empty wallet to prove that I did.
I have it now, but it's in my other coat.
Lol!!! Awesome
Well, I believe you. The fact you no longer have that money means you have been able to spend it all which proves you had money in the first place!
All I will say is you had a hell of a morning
No no no, this is a completely unfair characterization!
A better one is that there is this guy who died a long time ago in poverty who you are confident had previously owned and spent a million dollars, you're confident of this because you were given several contradictory stories about some people who claim to have found an empty coin purse of some one completely unrelated to him and we have no history on, who these stories claim kept all the guy in questions money in said coin purse for.
Sure, its not common for anyone, let alone a millionaire, to store all of their money in a coin purse, let alone in the coin purse of some one who was previously unknown and we have no record of at all outside of these stories, but it's not impossible.
What's more, per the stories, the coin purse was found at a women's retreat by a woman, and your pretty sure all of the people who told you these stories were misogynistic bigots, so the story must be true for them to not have written a man into being the one at the women's retreat to have found the purse.
On the other hand... your version is much more concise, so never mind, just take my Like.
My question is, why would anyone go to the tomb to anoint the body? They knew there was a stone blocking the entrance. It’s almost as if the author knew he was going to fabricate the story that way.
Why would they have gone to anoint an already buried body?
The empty tomb is obviously b.s and having the women go there was an obvious plot device so the reader could find out Jesus was gone. It's why in John they tried to fix this. You don't spice a 3 day old body already entombed and there was no reason he would've been taken down from the cross to begin with. The Jews didn't run the show the Romans did. They would not have given two shits about Passover. Jesus would have been left up for days like every other criminal for the scavengers.
The main aspect of Christianity that was responsibly for my non belief, was the contrived nature of the stories in the Bible.
Many do seem to be written to fit a belief rather than being the cause of that belief.
They recently found the empty tomb of Romulus too.
*Darth Vader's empty tomb* is in my cellar. You can come and check for yourselves that he isn't there anymore. Which proves .... _f_ck all._
@@pauligrossinoz all hail Darth!
@@pauligrossinoz that's a lie. Everybody knows Darth Vader was cremated.
There was an actual Ronulous....
@@LucianCorrvinus
I'd need evidence for that claim.
Also note what happens right after the women find the empty tomb. The men arrive to validate the claim. So much for the criteria of embarrassment and the testimony of women.
Well I mean even dumber than that, to me? The gospels have mentions about how women were so revered and trusted in spiritual matters that women who talked to Jesus were able to convert their entire villages. So propping up the idea that women wouldn't be listened to isn't even supported in their primary source. They have to reach outside, down and across to an unrelated issue.
Not to mention the stories of Jesus's later appearances to the disciples as a group, which even the shorter ending of Mark mentions. The perceived value of women's testimony is irrelevant because the story of women discovering the empty tomb had to pull zero weight as far as convincing first century Christians of a resurrection.
Is it me or is there an awful lot of "seems", "suggests", "likely", etc. in these guys ranting? That seems to suggest they likely have zero evidence for any of it...
ISWYDT
It would appear possibly maybe so
My favorite is "the empty tomb _strongly_ suggests that Jesus was indeed resurrected."
@@ericpierce3660 My empty wallet strongly suggests that I was indeed mugged.
The insurance company refused to believe me.
Dear any religion apologist: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence... Nor it is evidence of presence!
Silence is not a testimony.
Unless, of course, it's something the people in question would be heavily expected to mention, in which case the absence of evidence is actually evidence (not proof) of absence. This isn't applicable to the discussion around Paul in this case, but if, for example, you want to discuss the total absence of non-Gospel sources for the earthquake and the zombies ...
Absolutely no evidence of a pride of wild lions living in London, or other big cities, but then people are currently scared of the C19 illness and staying indoors. Surely we would hear the roars ? I only hear the odd helicopter. Perhaps evidence that the police are patrolling above us ?
I just talked to a Christian who said they took DNA off the Shroud of Turin and it turned out to be a male with no father!??? So the Virgin birth is scientifically proven.
If god exists then give me no sign and do nothing!
...
...
See! God = real.
@@Itsatz0 Yes, I have also suffered the feeble concept of "ad-hoc Christian genetics", explaining how Adam begot a female clone, so he literally could fuck himself...
Cameron getting Habermas to admit that mass graves was the most likely scenario is the best thing he ever did
agree
People always say that the absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Actually, it is. It may not be proof of absence, but it certainly is evidence. If hundreds of people were present at an event, and only one or two reported their version of the event 30 years later, we could reasonably ask whether their testimonies amounted to good evidence especially in light of hundreds of testimonies or potential testimonies which do not concur with theirs.
Exactly, that statement is often repeated but it’s actually meaningless without context.
In science when evidence is expected and looked for and nothing turns up that’s pretty significant. A lot of scientific theories/hypothesis have been ditched because expected evidence failed to show up.
@Jim Merrilees ask him if it is so miraculous what about the zombies mentioned in Matthew.
"The collective wild west of the first decades of Christianity". Ha! A very apt description, albeit not a convenient one for Christian literalists.
Gotta love it when they're having a good chuckle laughing at the walking talking cross and giant Jesus with the Gospel of Peter. Yet you can bet they're a having a sigh of relief because they are well aware that IF the gospel of Peter DID make it into the Canon, these two buffoons would be sitting there defending it.
The women finding the empty tomb meets the “criteria of embarrassment”, so it must be true. The Gospel of Peter should have made it into the canon because it was embarrassing, but I guess it didn’t make it because it met the “criteria of too embarrassing”.
Right - along with the zombie apocalypse in Matthew, which is not at all farfetched.
“Oh, no, you see Peter is being allegorical in that Jesus has become greater than the sin of the world” is what they’d say if it made it in
You're not really in a position to claim empty tomb before you can show there even was a tomb! Secondly if women arrived to anoint the body how did they expect to be able to get inside?
BRYAN FINEGAN wow...i literally never thought about that. Lol. I have to assume then they might’ve had some other way to anoint bodies? That or the bible don goofed again.
They carried shovels with them. They were going to dig a tunnel and emerge with precision on the other side. It was mentioned in the gospel of Runcithorn which never made it into the canon.
They were going to ask the Roman guards to roll back the stone for them. Because that's what the guards were there for ... to let anybody in the tomb just because they asked to be let in.
Makes sense right ... right??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Why would anyone anoint a body 3 days after death. Bodies were embalmed after death to prevent them from smelling. Why would anyone dig up a dead body after burial?
Which empty tomb?
The Easter Orthodox/Catholic "Holly Sepulchre" or the Protestant "Garden Tomb" just to name the big two.
My tomb is at present empty....I must be Cheesus!
Praise Cheesus. You make my Pozza Cheesy
I get a lot of creationists asking for evidence and when I refer them to watch your videos I never hear from them again.
I loved they way you pointed-out that Justin Martyr never referred to any gospel writer by name, but still quoted extensively from the gospels.
Given that the death of Justin Martyr was around 150 CE, it's very striking that well over 100 years had passed since the death of Jesus and yet the gospels _still_ are not referred to *_by any Christians_* using the names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
As far as any historical records we have for the supposed authorship of the gospels, by the year 150 CE they were still _only_ ever referred to collectively as: "the memoirs of the Apostles". They truly were just anonymous narratives.
The brutal reality for Christians is that anonymous claims of the resurrection are all that we have today as the foundation of that central tenet of their religion. Quite underwhelming. Just as underwhelming as the evidence for the Quran.
"Explain away?" There's nothing to explain away. Provide a shred of evidence (not conjecture, evidence) so we have something to refute.
Keep getting bible or apologetic ads... First I was frustrated but now I appreciate that they are paying Paul ad revenue! Thanks biblesellers!
I found that too. But yeah, ad revenue 👍
Wait
So other yt channels are paying Paul to advertise THEIR channels on his?
@S Gloobal and voldemort, Sauron, palpatine, the tooth fairy... But when I close these books, I don't even think about them much anymore;)
@S Gloobal - How can anyone hate something that has no existence, outside of other people's heads? That doesn't make any sense.
@S Gloobal - My statement was based solely on the evidence FOR existence - wholly insufficient for any proof. An entity which has no manifestation in reality, is the very real equivalent of a non-existent entity.
I'm simply a tentative atheist, still waiting for any sufficient evidence, that any of the multitudinous gods, as claimed, evince existence.
What I meant, but worded poorly, was, "How can anyone hate something for which there is insufficient evidence for its existence, outside of other people's heads?"
@S Gloobal - There is ample proof of insufficient evidence, to convince me. After decades of belief and daily study, both on my own and led by theologian scholars, I'm not convinced. I needn't provide anything in the way of an explanation for the universe. We simply do not know.
How is it that some naive ones can claim to know?
These two men still think that lying for Jesus is a Good Thing™️
It's a long tradition...
If they did not believe it (and were demonstrated to be correct by billions spent on religion each year) they and thousands others like them would be out of a job and have a hard time finding gainful employment with their lack of practically applicable experience.
Hard to tell how much is conscious dishonesty and how much is sincere delusion about the quality of their case.
@@Cat_Woods Easy to tell. Are they making money from it?
If people stopped claiming to know things that they clearly could not know, then all religions would cease.
Besides, what does contempt for women's testimony in court have to do with the custom of women usually anointing the body of the deceased? Those are two unrelated matters and yet apologists always bring those two up in tandem.
Crediting "Bryan" how did they expect to get into a tomb covered by a giant rock to anoint?
You anoint a body, wrap it in a tachrichim, then put it the tomb, then wait for the body to decompose and the stink to go away and then place the bones in an ossuary. This is just another obvious bit showing this a completely made up story. Nobody ever goes back to anoint a body after it has been put in the tomb. I don't if you have ever been around an actual dead body after a couple of days, but there is nothing that smells so foul.
@@fordprefect5304 Rolling rock doors were common in the ancient world. The idea was to keep scavengers out, not people.
c1.staticflickr.com/4/3078/2758884986_112294f046.jpg
@@oscargordon yes and 3 young woman were going to roll that out of the way. Were they training with Samson?
@@fordprefect5304 Physics my good man, physics.
"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world."
Archimedes.
Stone doors can be rolled by a single person although two makes it faster, one to work the lever stick and one to keep moving the fulcrum stone.
These aren't burials with expensive grave goods to be robbed. These were places to put rotting stinking bodies in until there was nothing left but bones. Did you look at the picture? The purpose was to keep animal scavengers out. The women wouldn't have had a problem. But then again, who goes back to the tomb to put put more anointment oil on a wrapped up stinking corpse? Were they planning to unwrap Jesus to give him another rub down?
The biggest problem with the "proof of the empty tomb" is that they don't have a tomb.
Actually, it's that there is no evidence for a biblical Christ....
@@LucianCorrvinus That's a more broader problem with the entire narrative.
Empty tombs and "missing body" stories were an established literary theme in antiquity. It was a marker used to convey apotheosis/translation of a hero or divine intervention by God/gods. Since there is no actual independent witness of the empty tomb (all gospels follow the same basic burial sequence and discovery that derives from Mark), it's just as likely that the gospels would be employing the theme as it is that they are reporting a historical fact. Thus, the story by itself cannot serve as evidence for its own historicity.
An extremely interesting example is the Greek novel Callirhoe by Chariton which may date to before 62 CE (before Mark's gospel) due to a possible mention by Persius - "To them I recommend the morning's play-bill and after lunch Callirhoe" - (1,134). According to Jan Bremmer, just as in the gospels, in Chariton's story, there is the "sequence of dawn, visit to the grave, finding the stone removed, fear, inspection of the empty grave, disbelief, and again visit to the grave."
A Jewish "missing body" story followed by heavenly translation occurs in the Testament of Job 39:11-12 - "And they want to bury them, but I prevented them saying, do not labor in vain, for you will not find my children, because they have been taken up to heaven by their creator king."
Since there are other famous Jewish prophets who "go missing" then we can expect the storytellers of Jesus would want to convey something similar. Compare Mk. 16:6 - "He is not here. See the place where they laid him" and Lk. 24:3 - "but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus."
Gen. 5:24 LXX
"And Enoch was well-pleasing to God, and was not found, because God translated him."
Hebrews 11:5
"By faith Enoch was taken so that he did not experience death; and “he was not found, because God had taken him.”
Philo Questions and Answers on Genesis 1.86
'What is the meaning of the expression, "He was not found because God translated him?" (Gen. 5:24). In the first place, the end of virtuous and holy men is not death but a translation and migration, and an approach to some other place of abode.'
A search party is sent for Elijah in 2 Kings 2:16-17 but they do not find him."And they sent fifty men, who searched for three days but did not find him."
Josephus Antiquities 9.28
"Now at this time it was that Elijah disappeared from among men, and no one knows of his death to this very day; but he left behind him his disciple Elisha, as we have formerly declared. And indeed, as to Elijah, and as to Enoch, who was before the deluge, it is written in the sacred books that they disappeared, but so that nobody knew that they died."
On the disappearance of Moses - Josephus Antiquities 4.326
"and as he was going to embrace Eleazar and Joshua, and was still discoursing with them, a cloud stood over him on the sudden, and he disappeared in a certain valley, although he wrote in the holy books that he died, which was done out of fear, lest they should venture to say that, because of his extraordinary virtue, he went to God."
/r/DebateAChristian/comments/ajftnd/empty_tombs_and_missing_body_stories_were_an/
"The theme of empty tombs was a familiar one in the ancient world. Aristeas disappeared from his temporary place of entombment (the fuller's shop) and later appeared as a raven and as a phantom in Herodotus's version. He received the honor due the gods and sacrifices in other accounts. Cleomedes, presumably still alive, disappeared from the chest he had hidden in and was honored as a hero with sacrifices. Many years after his death, Numa's body had disappeared, although there is no evidence he underwent an apotheosis. Alcmene's body disappeared from her bier. Zalmoxis, by the artifice of living underground, appeared three years after people thought he had died. He promised his followers some kind of immortal life resembling either resurrection or metemsomatosis.....Although Romulus was not buried (in most traditions) his body disappeared, and he was honored as the god Quirinus after appearing to Julius Proculus. Callirhoe apparently died and her lover Chaereas discovered her empty tomb with the stones moved away from the entrance. Inside he found no corpse. He assumed she had been translated to the gods.....Philinnion disappeared from her tomb, walked the earth as a revenant, and her corpse was later found in her lover's bedroom. Lucian's Antigonus (in his Lover of Lies) asserts: 'For I know someone who rose twenty days after he was buried.' Proclus included three stories of Naumachius of Epirus who described three individuals that returned to life after various periods in their tombs (none months, fifteen days, and three days). They appeared either lying on their tombs or standing up. Polyidus raised Minos's son Glaucus from the dead after being placed in the son's tomb. The Ptolemaic-Roman temple in Dendera vividly depicts the bodily resurrection of Osiris in his tomb. There are numerous translation accounts of heroes in which their bodies disappear when they were either alive or dead, including: Achilles (in the Aethiopis), Aeneas, Amphiaraus (under the earth), Apollonius of Tyana, Basileia, Belus, Branchus, Bormus, Ganymede, Hamilcar, and Semiramus." - John Granger Cook, Empty Tomb, Resurrection, Apotheosis p. 598-599.
I still want to know WHY Roman soldiers were supposedly guarding a dead body in a tomb? Makes no sense?
Good question since Pilate declared that Jesus had broken no Roman laws and found no fault in him. The only reason he had Jesus crucified and let a murdering insurrectionist go free was that Pilate was so terrified that the Jews were going to riot if he didn’t have Jesus executed.
Supposedly to guard the body in the case it would be molested by those with animosity. Remember Pilate had offers up Barnabas and Jesus for them to pardon. They had been vicious, abd chose a man who had done nothing over a convicted rebel who made things worse for the common Jew.He would have had good reason to think the body would be so attacked.
LucianCorrvinous Son of Hekaté So why would the Romans care about some dead body that might be molested. Enough to post guards? Makes no sense, even if the rest of the story was true.
@@mtbee9641 Only Matthew's version has guards and the stone door in place when Mary M shows up. In the other three versions, when Mary M shows up either alone or with friends, there are no guards and the tomb is open.
@@oscargordon But the bible is the perfect word of god! How can there possibly be inconsistencies ;
I explain away the empty tomb the same way I explain away Joseph Smith's golden plates and how did Mohammad fly on a winged horse. Somebody just made it up, wrote it down and gullible people believed it.
@Paulogia You may want to look into St. Paul's usage of the Greek word, "egeiro, which actually means "raised up, awaken", to describe the so-called resurrection of Jesus in 1st Corinthians 15:3-7. "Egeiro" is used instead of the word, "anastasis/anastimi", which actually means "resurrection/resurrected"., i.e., a physical resurrection or reanimation of a dead body. Paul's vocabulary is actually more compatible with descriptions of visions rather than actual sightings of a reanimated corpse: infidels.org/library/modern/dan_barker/barker_horner.html. This is also bolstered by Paul's statement that the death, burial and raising up of Jesus were all according to the Scriptures, which have primacy of testimony, rather than according to the eyewitnesses, who are given a secondary mention. In fact, the latter should have been given the primacy if these had been real events. This sequence makes sense if a mystical interpretation of scriptures had revealed cosmic knowledge of Jesus' ordeal in a celestial realm and this interpretation would have been ratified by the visions of the apostles.
So a man who did not witness it directly, tells you it fulfilled certain qualifications of proof needed to take it as truth. Now you see why the gospels were included and indeed given importance over anything Paul said thereafter. If it had been Paul alone, Christianity would likely have died out in the age if reason.especially when he rubber stamps a thing and makes ni effort to place it into a narrative having context with parties involved action and places given to lend it a air of realism. Paul was many things, a prophet worth following by his word alone, not so much....
most Crucifixion victims were first allowed to rot off the cross and then what was left was thrown into a trash pile
Yeah, I don't know why this is rarely mentioned. They were left to rot and be eaten by animals as a warning to anyone who even _thought_ of breaking the law.
4:07 Wether I agree with you or not, your killin' it on the reasoning skills. Superior.
I didn’t hear them address another explanation.That perhaps the entire story is fiction. No Jesus, no crusifiction no empty tomb to explain.
Its presupposition...let's debate it as if he did exist, si ni matter what's said, he still did. Its a sneaky way of getting around the fact, no evidence for a biblical Jesus exists.
Great video as always Paulogia. These two appear to have PhDs in believing everything in the Bible, definitely not in critical thinking!🤔
The solution to the empty tomb seems simple to me: The owner of the tomb had the body thrown in the trash.
Joseph of Arimathea took Jesus down from the crucifix, looked around and saw a nearby garden with an unused tomb, chucked Jesus in it, and rolled the stone cover over the opening. The next day the owner of the tomb came strolling by and saw the stone had been rolled into place. He called his servants and told them to roll away the stone and he looked inside and saw someone had put a body in his tomb! So he told his servants to toss the body in the city garbage dump.
The problem with that scenario is Matthew 27:57-60 which, unlike Mark, Luke and John, says that Joseph of Arimathea is the owner of the tomb: So Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn in the rock. (59-60) As Bart Ehrman would say: "It depends on which gospel you read."
Only Matthew says it’s JoA’s tomb. The other gospels say it’s just some random tomb. So yeah, that is a big problem. For the Biblical inerrantists, that is.
Now we know from Dr Watson, that Sherlock Holmes smoked tobacco, but which brand ?
Prove there was a real Sherlock...
I got an ad from some christian group. I didn't skip it to test my debunking skills(but mostly to give Paul that ad revenue). They started by saying that science and religion don't have to be at odds, witch is fair, but then they started to say that science and religion are complementary.
❣❣❣I LOVE 🎶🎵🎵"FOR THE BIBLE TELLS ME SO" 🎶🎵🎶🎵❣❣❣
Me too
Unfortunately we still have a few hangers on .most churches in my country are closing due to lack of anyone attending
At the risk of sounding like a suck-up, Paul I have to say the simplicity and clarity of the way you communicate in your videos is exceptional. Any intellectually honest person who watches your videos (and confirms your references where necessary) must necessarily conclude that the cases put forward by apologists are exceedingly weak. This is significant, because if an all-powerful, magic super being wanted humanity to know that it existed, then that being sucked at achieving that objective.
Thanks, EM.
Loving the clips of Brian "Always look on the bright side of life. "
NOOOO NOT FIRST :(
...but certainly Paul's favourite :)
I try to aim for prime number like 13 or 29, they're cool.
1, 2 and 3 are primes !
@@tonydarcy1606
23 is the best. And no 1 is not prime.
They repeatedly use the word "maximal" which keeps making me think about maximally great beings
When Cameron is involved, you know there will be a pile involved. However the contents of that pile is better suited for fertilizer than any form of evidence.
The two women in Mark found a young man there and apparently believed his story about the emptiness without question. Women were not first to the tomb in the earliest gospel. Mark 16:4-8
The witness is held to not be earthly by extension. Therefore the argument is the women were the first people, or first Humans. That means to take up your position, you have ti detail why the accepted origin of that person is not correct, good luck there...
LucianCorrvinous Son of Hekaté “Held to not be earthly” Yes, I am somewhat familiar with modern Christian theology, but it has little to do with what is in Mark. I am going by the text, not what Christians want it to say. The angel idea was added in a later gospel. The Bible is an anthology by multiple authors with conflicting ideas. Bad luck defending it, because people are using it to “justify” bad actions.
Even of the young man had been an angel, it is still a man telling women and women believing without question.
Don’t understand why they always point to the tomb, especially since we don’t know where this tomb is now, or where it was then, or that it ever existed
"Skeptics are bent..." No already... Lol
2:07 I love this channel. I know paul loves the argument from silence falling. Hes right, that's sword. Touch both ways..
"According to" or "in accordance with" is the question.
The real question is according to what?
I was met with some cheesy "Get Answers" commercial before this video started ... 😂
Do you remember these four things?
LoL. Very cheesy
Awesome video Paul!
AHH so happy about this follow up video!
another brilliant critique. Can't wait for the expected "na-hah, did too happen 'coz reasons" responses from the apologinistas.
Apologinistas? Superb! Not seen that used before. Thx!
@@Jabbatic
cheers. Rolls off the tongue satisfyingly doesn't it - and I love the mental image of Cameron and his mates thinking they're like some gang of rebel revolutionaries with big moustaches and cigars - I think that's the sort of romantic view they have of themselves.
"hey muchachos, have you heard ze good news? Viva Apologetica! Viva el apologinistas! Viva el Wiiiiiilliam Lane Craig! Adios!"
@@bengreen171 Hilarious thought!
I'd like to know why anyone thinks a community/the world could play telephone with a story forty years & get it right when none of us experienced it working out in elementary school...over a period of 10mins.
"how much for that fish". Brilliant.
Just a thought: it might be better to save the "If you're new to the channel... hit subscribe..." part until almost the end of the video. When I'm new to a channel, I'm unlikely to hit subscribe before I've seen the content.
Yes, that makes perfect sense.
Four gospels
Four different versions of the Resurrection.
All true.
I'm picking the first one, which originally didn't include a resurrected Jesus. ;)
Phenomenon
🎶 Do dooo dee do do🎶
🤣
Dammit Paulogia now I have to go look up your Patreon page!
It's in the video description, but I have reproduced it here for those as lazy as I am: www.patreon.com/paulogia
Enjoy!
@@tompaine4044 thanks! I now have Paul's sincere gratitude from behind a cartoon blinking stare. 😄
The argument from silence always reminds me of Cain and Abel, where Cain goes into another place or country to "find his wife. " Where did the wife came from? Another just unmentioned creation (silence argument)? Creationists often try to say: Well it must have been his very own sister from parents Adam and Eve and incestial stuff and so. While it is not mentioned that they have daughters or the sister was his wife or anything (again arguing from silence). It is just assumed a weird inbreeding history because of their religious doctrine they can't take into question.
The creed is explicit about burial so there were believers who disagreed with this point when the creed was established.
5:11 "phenomenon" doot doo duh doo doot
I totally do that in really life whenever I hear someone say that word.
The "Young man in an empty tomb" was a literary device intended to inform Mark's readers of Jesus' resurrection without having to provide additional dialogue which post-resurrection apparitions would have necessitated. Even the young stranger's purported audience run off, terrified, themselves saying nothing to anyone at all. Literary parsimony.
It ended with a cliff hanger but people who was able to read it was often authours themself so they made up a better ending, all different.
Even Paul's post-resurrection "sightings" are not apparitions but revelations culled from the Hebrew scriptures - and Paul claims as much: "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES". Paul then cites his authorities as precedents to his own insights before passing them on to his own correspondents: "And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve . . ., etc."
Note also, there is no mention of any "Jesus" - but only of the mythical Jewish Messiah (Khristos in Koine).
One of the best parts of the video Marisa Tomei at 5:17!
Why don't you give more Shannon Q?
oh my god someone finally did it! You added Doot doo, do doo doot after saying Phenomenon! Its always what pops up in my head when I hear that word.
great minds...
The song is "Mah Na Mah Na". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mah_N%C3%A0_Mah_N%C3%A0
Still needs a Playlist link at this time!
Thanks Paul
Phenomena!
I lost it at Skrull-Jesus. Well done, sir.
the reason truth is stranger than fiction is because fiction has to make sense.
Your drawing of the walking, talking cross certainly looks cross.
And they claim this is evidence. I call it clutching at straws.
Not this year. Sad for children.
This is DEFINITELY a steaming pile of, errr... "evidence".
"evidences" lol
so where exactly is it "written" in the scriptures that zombie jebus would rise on the 3rd day?
Well
3
8
40 days.
Take your pick.
I am talking in the OT, Tanach, whatever you want to call it... Where in there is it written jebus would die and come back from the dead?
@@bryanleonard8008 and im saying that the books state those 3 things.
@@colindickson8034 where?
Smart Christian apologists with advanced degrees channeling Josh McDowell!
One very big problem for those who argue with the Bible is that they cannot get the bigger picture. If the apostles had not seen the risen Christ, they wouldn't know what to do next, therefore, the book of Acts would not even exist. The fact is that the apostles and other saints recieved specific commands for what to do and how to preach to jews and pagans. Each of them was assigned a specific task and all that happens in Acts is guided. If there was no risen Christ and Holy Spirit to guide them in their journeys, they would have been left with a cool empy tomb story with no idea what to do with it. There would have been no letters to any church, because the apostles would have no idea what to preach and what to teach. Have a blessed day and remember to look at the bigger picture.
I find it fascinating that one detail of a story is used to validate the whole story when that detail has no better evidence for its veracity than any other of the story's details.
Is there an actual tomb that exists today, that is known ( agreed upon by experts)to be the burial place of Jesus?
yeah - there's two of them. oh. that's a problem isn't it.........
We can't even find the historical biblical Jesus, so all proof of a tomb is worthless...
Started to watch the video and got a comercial for a UA-cam channel: get answers talking about religion 🤣😂🤣😂
How did the women/disciples learn where Joseph had put the body? (If we have to speculate to fill that piece in, we’re in trouble.)
💚 *quality content* 💚
Wow and "Paul" doesn't even mention the women at the tomb either.
What do the other 80 gospels say?
I listened to the first hour and a half of the original (I couldn't take it anymore) and what is laughable is this circular argument they present: There must have been an empty tomb because the resurrection happened - then later on: the resurrection must have happened because there was an empty tomb!
Here is my wardrobe. You will notice that it contains no three-piece suits. This means that the 5,000$ bespoke suit I had made that was inside of it was magically animated and walked away because I gained too much weight and it was upset.
_If the above fails to convince you that I 1. had a bespoke suit 2. made which 3. cost 5,000$ and which 4. came to life and 5. walked away because 6. I got too fat, then imagine how sensible people feel when you tell them that an imaginary tomb you don't have a location for was found empty because a corpse inside it magically teleported away._
Let's just say that I actually have a wardrobe so _my_ story is already more sensible. I don't even know how much a custom-tailored three-piece costs, I just threw 5k up there because it's an insane amount of money for a bit of pretentious fabric.
Someone has probably addressed this but... (as I understand it) the idea of anointing a body was a pre-burial practice. Once the body was buried there was no longer a need to anoint it as the practice of anointing was to combat possible odours the could occur until burial. (Can't remember which video, but it's in one of the videos by Rabbi Tovia Singer)
maybe the guy who paid for the tomb tossed his ass out ..
Do you even get "buried" in a tomb? Doesn't "buried" imply a grave?
Religion.... after all these years, still trying to get a square peg in a round hole....
Pyro OneExSeven
That it is. The Truth has no means of promoting one over others. So any study of the Bible, even when excused as trying to fit today's events into it/apocalypse, is never going to be anything more than a quest for acquiring and maintaining a sense of superiority.
Hey you pound on it hard enough, you can usually get it to happen....
The Gospel of Peter has 2 men descend from heaven and remove Jesus from the tomb. They also have a walking, talking cross. How can this account be doubted?
It can't be. I've never heard of a cross telling a lie.
Gotta say I LOVE the Muppets inserts!!
glad someone else did!
if women were going to the tomb to spice the body, who was going to roll the stone away?
I have read that Justin Martyr never quotes Paul?
I imagine a tomb burial back then would be extremely expensive so a pauper wouldn't really have a tomb methinks
The motivation for going to the tomb contradicts Jewish tradition. The story doesn't make sense because there was no need to anoint a body after it was buried. The point of anointing was to do it before burial so it wouldn't smell. The reason given in the earliest account (Mark) is to anoint the body with spices. Matthew leaves this part out (because it's nonsense) and replaces it with a different reason - to look at the tomb. Luke retains the original Markan reason but says the spices were prepared before the Sabbath - Lk. 23:56. This contradicts Mark's depiction which says they acquired the spices after the Sabbath - Mk. 16:1. John says the body was anointed before by a character (Nicodemus) who is not even mentioned in the synoptics. John's depiction explicitly contradicts Luke's narrative where he says the women followed Joseph then went and prepared spices - Lk. 23:55-56. He also conveniently omits the part that Mary Magdalene went to the tomb precisely for anointing the body as in Mark.
There's also another sign of fiction. After the women were already on their way, Mark says the women "wondered who would roll away the stone?" How silly of them to head to the tomb without thinking of that in the first place!
All signs point to fiction. Mark was creating narrative tension which is then relieved when they reach the tomb and the stone has already been rolled away.
It's a cruel joke. A logic puzzle. Christianity wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Notice how the report of "angels" in the Gospels of Mathew, Mark and Luke, in that order, match exactly the visits of the disciples in and out of the tomb in the Gospel of John? The joke: The subsequent visitors actually stumble upon the just emptied tomb of Lazarus and also mistake the disciples for angels. Mary's spices are to season the Jewish Messiah meat for cannibalism. All the Marys are starving and want the flesh of their Messiah. It's a brutal satirical reference to the only Mary mentioned in Josephus' Wars of the Jews who ate her son in Jerusalem during the Roman Empire-Titus Flavius led seige during the Jewish rebellion. The New Testament is intended to be read together with Josephus's works to understand the parodic nature of Christianity. Check out Caeser's Messiah by Atwill, chapter: The Puzzle of the Empty Tomb and come to your own conclusions. More jokes too! Jesus is pressed in wine press!
No more guards at Jesus’ tomb. They’re shutting down Holy Land Adventure. As a Floridian, I’d always had it in the back of my mind that I’d take a trip up there sometime. Kind of disappointed that I didn’t get the chance
Yahweh knows that his public appearance before a crowd holding camera phones would settle the question of his existence.
Instead he leaves us with the story of an empty tomb in an ancient collection of Hebrew anecdotal testimonies.
Can anyone explain me why the empty tomb is important? Even if it existed and Jesus was buried there there's gazillion different ways it might end up empty aside resurrection. Am I missing something?
Your not missing a thing
If the Gospel story tellers had written that the male disciples had buried Jesus and then discovered the empty tomb everyone would just assume that the disciples disposed of the corpse to facilitate the story.
even if we find jesus's tomb and it's empty that still doesnt prove the resurrection. you have to rule out all the non supernatural reasons for the tomb to be empty first. like perhaps his body was stolen?
My opinion about the "Empty Tomb" is it is the McGuffin.
Paulogia, I don't know if you still check the comments after 4 years, but I have a question. Only two of the four canonical gospels say that the women come to the tomb to anoint the body. (In John, Nicodemus and Joseph anoint the body at the time of burial. Mary goes to the tomb, but nothing is said about her intention to anoint the body. In Matthew, the women just go to see the tomb, again with no mention of anointing.) Anointing an entombed body seems like a strange practice. Anointing was done to reduce the smells while the body was still in the home, especially if burial was delayed by Sabbath or something. Why anoint it after it's been in the tomb for, what, a day and a half? Do you have any information on this? Was it really traditional to go anoint the body after it had been lying in the tomb and no one could smell it anyway?
I've worked and hung out socially with a pretty fair number of British people, especially for someone who has never lived east of the Rocky Mountains. And except for one who was Hindu and another couple who were Muslim, all the British folks I've known have had beliefs somewhere on the continuum between "positive atheist belief" and "spiritual but not affiliated with a particular religion or church". Consequently, it's very, very odd for me to hear English accents espousing and defending such thin historical arguments for the sake of their beliefs. I hadn't realized just how much my own mind had made the connection between a voice with an English accent and a person who was skeptical of religious claims in a manner more or less compatible with my own. Put another way, I'd semiconsciously come to think that Englsih accent = intellectual ally. Though jarring, I'm glad, at least, to have that preconception and bias blown up--preconceived biases are never good to have.