Now the battle for the Alpha quadrant truly begins! With Cardassia joining the Dominion and giving them a foothold in the Alpha quadrant, the Federation/Klingon alliance is crucial to opposing the Dominion! But can they do it alone?? J.G. Hertzler's portrayal of General Martok made him one of my all-time favorite recurring characters on DS9! And now that he'll be in command of the Klingon forces permanently assigned to the Bajoran sector, we'll be seeing a lot of him! Frankly, they should have made J.G. a regular! Now that the Dominion has officially set up shop in the Alpha quadrant, there is no going back. This is war!! 🖖🏼😠
In the Expanse as well i think, As the original Arjun Avasarala, Before the role had to be recast, Due to his unavailability. Because he basically got another job when sci fi cancelled it, but then Amazon picked it up for 3 more seasons 🤔
As many of us know, Andrew Robinson who plays Garak is claustrophobic in real life - and of course he wasn't in tight quarters here since there is a camera in his face .. lol.. but regardless, he knocks the panic attack scene out of the park! When he got the script and read where he is trapped inside a tight space, he probably thought "Oh yeah, I got this.. it won't take a lot of acting.. : :)
I believe the relevant interview quote was "I didn't have to act, I was there"! Presumably the special set was fairly enclosed with just a few gaps for cameras.
Alexander Siddig was initially very angry at what was essentially a massive retcon. He got the script a couple days before shooting began. He said that had he known this backstory all along, he would have played the character differently. Siddig did force a change to the script. Originally, Julian and Miles blackmailed Zimmerman to stay quiet. Siddig insisted the secret be revealed to all, and I agree that was the right call. I do think the ep would have been better had Julian been expelled by Starfleet and Bajor immediately hired him and put him in the exact same job. It’s the Bajoran’s station and they could force this if they wanted. But they wouldn’t have to force it because Julian would have the support of both The Sisko and Kira.
Yeah, but Paramount would have vetoed Bashir being hired by Bajor for one reason: they wouldn’t have wanted to budget in a whole new uniform for Alexander Siddig. (For those who don’t know what I’m talking about, look into the Costume design trivia for Star Trek Generations.)
I couldn't remember if I was misremembering that, because in the end, even though there's some older scenes that don't make quite as much sense with this knowledge, it does sort of fit with a lot of his personality. Feeling like he owes something to the universe, and like he should be capable of any challenge. However I know he HATED some of the minor dialogue coming later where he "shows off" his enhanced abilities, as if he was Data.
The writers could have did almost the same episode about being genetically improved to "normal" and not retconned the character. Their choice ruined his inner dialogue in "Distant Voices" when he was fighting the Lethian brain invasion.
@@jerodastThe biggest problem by far is (as has been pointed out) Distant Voices. However, overall it’s a pretty solid retcon. He was intentionally written as an annoying Scrappy with the intention to gradually make him a great character. But much of it makes sense now… his over the top puppy dogging of Jadzia makes a lot of sense if what he was really doing was chaffing. With her long lived Dax background, she might be the biggest threat to figuring him out. It subtly improves (the horrid) Melora by how Julian suddenly whips up a solution for her that nobody else had managed. The Data lines… yeah, retconning character: good, changing the character: bad.
Not to forget he played the scientist in the opening episode of The Orville, And Raj's dad in big Bang Theory. He was VERY comical in that role. Very talented man
@@roxannlegg750 the OP is talking about Dr. Zimmerman, portrayed by Robert Picardo, who, as the “emergency medical hologram” was a main character on Voyager. You are talking about Mr. Bashir, portrayed by Brian George, who only had a small role in one episode of Voyager.
By Inferno's Light is the very definition of "S TIER TREK". It's amazing how much they packed into this one episode! Incredible everything - acting, effects, plot....and we see deep characterization for Jem Hadar and Vorta. Garak has claustrophobia. We see a Breen for the first time since Kira and Dukat rescued Ziyal. Dukat leading the Cardassians in the Dominion!?! The Dominion has a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant! SO many ships came through! The actor that plays Bashir got to go wild in this episode! Best of all, we finally got our last cast member- GENERAL MARTOK joins the crew to bring honor!
Mmm "last cast member" interesting observation. It is cool looking back from later seasons how many important characters were introduced at least a season or two earlier and allowed to grow. However, there is one (slightly divisive?) recurring character whose actor recently died, who has not appeared yet. (Oh right, and of course That One other important character we sort of haven't met yet.)
I agree - we do get glimses of JemHadar of having their own sense of worth and value set. Altho rare, there are individuals who do, and will stand for values beyond obedience. Awesome set of characters.
Important thing to know, that is almost never followed, the Klingons and Romulans are in the Beta Quadrant, and there are some Federation territories on the far side of the Empires. Earth is on the border between Alpha and Beta Quadrants.... Yet we almost never get "Beta Quadrant" said on screen. 😅
@@nostrum6410 yeah, I think there was a moment when the TOS crew said something like that. There are a lot of times when the wrong term gets used, like calling a solar system a galaxy.... LOL 🤣
I prefer the maps online that have the alpha/beta border cutting through the Klingon and Romulan empires rather than the silly idea of using Earth (like Star Trek wasn't Earthcentric enough already). It fits much better with dialogue, especially the war talk in DS9.
I like to imagine that Garak, with his Obsidian Order ties and ability to deep dive into getting so much information, knew about Bashir all along and it's the reason he befriended him.
Hey! Just think- the Mirror Universe Julian wouldn't be enhanced! That kind of enhancements wouldn't have been available to Terrans. That explains why he's angry and not a doctor in that universe.
He didn't really strike me as developmentally delayed though which makes me wonder if maybe either original Julian would have eventually either learned how to be more or less functionally average without the treatment. Just not a doctor or anything. (More likely it's that they didn't think of any of this when they wrote that Julian.)
@@ThomasReeves-s7u Well, Yeah- but I prefer to think Mirror Julian is just a late bloomer without the enhancements. He's not doing warp calculations in his head like our Julian.
@@silikon2 I suppose so. It might even be a requirement that humans undergo them to make better slaves. They'll work longer, won't get sick and die as easily, etc.
That's actually kind of another plot hole. From the kid they described I don't see how he could grow up to even be normal. Well, maybe the alternate universe had some genetic enhancement of a sort to get him up to normal speed lol.
If a Changeling wanted to spy on the prisoners, wearing a Breen suit would contain their liquid form when they need to rest. It would have been a good twist.
@@tonyrichards254 huh? Has that been confirmed in one of the newer shows? Last I knew, no one really knew why they wore the suits and it was just speculation they needed the suits to keep cool, but that was about it.
@@tonyrichards254 I know little about the Breen other than their home world is quite cold and their suits are environmentally controlled for their body temperature.
@@michaellangan6385 I'm still going through Discovery pretty slowly. Unlike TOS & TNG, there are fewer (if any) light-hearted, pallet-cleansing episodes between the heavy dramatic ones. I'm enjoying it thus far, but it is dense and takes time between episodes to digest, so far less binge-watching.
Very clever of the Dominion, use fake Martoc to encourage Gowron to attack the Cardassians, weaken Cardassia enough to encourage them to join the Dominion.
This explains why Bashir never became a professional tennis player like he wanted. He could have done easily but testing would have caught him out. Also makes you think - Did he REALLY get that one exam question wrong on his medical final, or did he throw it so he wouldn't be validictorian and attracted too much attention?
I always thought that Bashir backed out of being a tennis pro because 1.) It would be completely unethical and unfair to win physical competitions just because you were genetically superior to your competitors (boy I could draw parallels to today but I won't) and 2.) As a result it would also be an empty life. In fact, it's one of the things that I'd call a plot hole for this whole storyline.
I seem to remember hearing/reading something at the time that the powers that be (aka Ira Behr) had become disturbed by some fans romanticizing Dukat and finding him appealing so they decided to turn him more evil. I'm not sure of the accuracy of that considering a season 6 episode that was written with Kira in mind until Nana Visitor protested to Ira against it and it got changed.
When you read the episode titles at the beginning, i'm surprised that you weren't curious if it might have been three parter, considering it's called 'Doctor Bashir, I Presume' lol. Obviously long trm DS9 lovers like me know different, but it sounds plausible.
It's funny we have two big Bashir twists in a row haha. Neither one of them written necessarily considering all the implications for the episodes prior :P
Lots of consequences from what happened in the two-parter. The Dominion now has a foothold on our side of the wormhole! And the wormhole is now impossible to destroy; the last-ditch decision to cut off the Dominion from the wormhole by blasting it to high hell isn't even an option anymore.
The saying that I think you're meaning was kind of used by Reagan. Although he had the word "Let's" before it. The exact saying was used in Octavia Butler's "Parable of the Talents" but that novel looks to have come out a year after this episode.
Dukat is all about war. The "other guy" isn''t. But the Democrat party IS all about war. As are ALL leftist governments in the West. YOU are not the good guys.
The only problem I had watching By Inferno's Light was that I kept forgetting that Kira has already given birth. I'm constantly worried about her commanding a battleship "in her condition", but she's no longer in that condition. It will take a minute for me to get used to that.
Don't be too excited about the Dominion War. The executives at Paramount never wanted a war in Star Trek. They just want single episode stories for DS9's entire run. And for now, the writers have to stick to single episode stories, occasionally sneaking in bits of the conflict whenever they can get away with it. The full war will have to wait till the Paramount executives are too busy interfering with Star Trek: Voyager to notice what the writers have done on DS9.
People gloat about Gowron being the GOAT Klingon because of his stare and his lines but to me Martok is the GOAT Klingon. Badass, honorable and a true friend. Zimmermann has quite the ego. You'll see a hologram version of him in an EMH program on Voyager (and you have seen him as an EMH in First Contact on the Enterprise E). And you'll see a glimpse of the Federation penal colony in New Zealand in Voyager as well.
I don't think I've seen anyone gloating about Gowron being the ultimate Klingon since Martok came around. However he is still deservedly honored as the ultimate Gowron haha.
I do wish the moment when the Romulans joined the fleet had had a little bit more time to breathe given how monumental it was. I can't describe how it felt, having watched TOS since I was a kid in the 70s, to see the big three on the same side.
I'd love to imagine Zimmermans schedule being early and all the events of "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" had happened 2 weeks earlier. While The changeling doppelganger was still there. Imagine Bashir sitting down with his parents and his father saying "Let's not talk about this deep dark secret" "yes, of course Dad, can you just remind me what that secret is? Of course I know it but I just want to make sure you still do"
Hahaha yeah that would've been a disaster. I know they still treat it as an episodic show in a lot of cases, but man I'd like to think they had enough of an eye on the overall continuity to prevent that :)
@@jerodast not so much from episode schedules but I love the in universe story where Zimmermans visit was scheduled 2 weeks earlier and maybe as a result real Bashir comes home from the Gamma Quadrant prison only to find out the LMH is already finished without him
Dukat's big comeback, from demoted and carrying Kira's bag to head of state. Also Martok as so good as Worf's hype man. Quark's comments to Leeta... lmao!
I was thinking the same thing. 😅😂 Had to catch myself and remind myself he's not up to full speed on the Trek universe or at least as it was back in the 90s.
I'm curious with DS9 and Voyager overlapping are you going to eventually get into Voyager? Either both simultaneously or once DS9 is done? Also this is the same EMH from "First Contact".
Thank you, Oliver! 🖖 Your new place looks great. 🏡 I'm glad you noted that the design for the Breen resembles the costume of 'Boushh' which 'Leia' donned to rescue 'Han'. I've been thinking that since 1995!
This is definitely when everything changes for the show and continues to get better.😎 As for the second episode, it was a real joy seeing Doctor Zimmerman from “Voyager”. He’s the creator of the holographic Doctor on that show and, by this point, had appeared himself in at least one episode of that show. The genetic engineering stigma started with Khan in TOS and has continued into “Star Trek Enterprise”, “Star Trek Strange New Worlds” and “Star Trek Prodigy”. So, it’s a VERY big thing with Starfleet.
Fun fact: In real life, Andrew Robinson, the actor who plays Garak, actually does suffer from claustrophobia and did had a small panic attack on the set during the scene, even though the set piece wasn't as confined as it looks in the episode.
As you should be aware, with greater powers comes greater ambition. You should go back and watch Space Seed again. Just 72 of these humans were able to take over not one but two Starfleet ships nearly destroy the Enterprise twice and their chaos resulted in the creation and destruction of a planet. Now I get it. Bashir is the exception to the rule. But you cannot think that these incidents did not play a large part in Federation policy regarding Genetic Tampering. But I would also argue that these cases are incredibly rare due to their banning that should they pop up they be handled on a case by case basis. Picard said it best. "Have we become so cowardly that we would condemn an innocent man because he carries the blood line of a current enemy?" Now competition is another factor. If one kid gets genetic enhancements to get ahead what is stopping parents from doing the same to keep their kids on an equal field? Playing God in an attempt to fix the species is never a good idea. Or did you not watch Firefly?
Don't you just love it when Gul Dukat exudes such delicious evil? He is a character that's soooo fun to hate, yet also complex and mysterious at the same time.
I always thought it would have been funny 'Doctor Bashir, I Presume' Would have taken place an episode or two before 'In Purgatory's Shadow' Changling Bashir would help Dr Zimmerman as to not arouse suspicion and when his parents show up Parents: don't worry we won't let your big secret get out. Changling Bashir: Uhhh what big secret? Parents: You know your big secret the one that if it gets out will ruin all your plans Changling Bashir: Oh that one...if we had to put it into words what would that be? Parents: Are you sure you're superior to us?
Julian allowed to stay in Starfleet and practice: I like to think there’s a subtext here. The Feds have recently dealt with another Borg invasion, a war with the Klingons, and the expected one with the Dominion and Cardassia. They can’t afford to lose a talented (and maybe VERY talented) doctor and officer. It bugged me they seemed to ignore their own rule that a gmo can’t serve in Starfleet or practice medicine. This explains why. And btw, the reason a gmo would be barred from serving in Starfleet or practicing is precisely to prevent what happened here: of course the kid wouldn’t be at fault, it would be the parents fault. But not banning this would give parents little incentive not to just do it anyway, especially with the very light slap on the wrist Julian’s father received.
I like that it complements that backstory detail! I don't like how the mind virus haunting him with his own regrets and self-doubts in that episode didn't ever bring up the augmentation, but then I don't like that episode much anyway :P
*Highly* recommend the movie *Gattaca* if you would like to delve more into the questions and possible eventualities unfettered genetic engineering somewhat like what they did with Dr. Bashir can bring to society. It's a great thinking sci-fi movie!
Part of Starfleet's decision on Julian was also his service record. Most likely no negative incidents, has always been an exceptional Doctor. No shortcuts, ie using the genetically enhanced status to skip parts of his training, etc. Recommended to stay from his commanding officer (I'm sure Sisko recommended that he remain his Chief Medical Officer)
Holy crap in a handbag! If you could not see that coming, your eyes must be for decoration only. Sisko’s prophecy, Dukat desperately trying to get his daughter off the station, and finally the Klingon Federation war winding down.
Picardo playing the Doctor from Voyager was a treat to see. At this point Trek was at it's popularity peek and engaged in some understandable cross promotion between the individual series. Oh wait. Dr Zimmerman I mean. 🤣😅 My bad. And you dudes shy around women or nervous or whatever I'm sure you can relate to Rom and his awkward behavior around beautiful women. I used to be like that back in the day. I wasn't near as awkward as Rom but I did have my difficulties.
I’m so excited for you as you continue your ds9 journey and this is one of the episodes I have been looking forward to seeing you react too. (Mild spoiler alert for Voyager) the EMH is explored on Voyager which is why the nod in First Contact. You’re watching series by series and not by air date but at this point in time ds9 was well established and Voyager had been a thing for at least two seasons so the EMH was old hat. Sorry for the spoiler for a show that aired 30 years ago. Please please keep watching and reacting because Star Trek is in the middle of its Second Renaissance and everytime I watch an episode of SNW or LD I can’t help but think “oh but Olly is gonna love this though…”
Its noteworthy that the Klingons were driven out of Cardassian space so quickly. Only like 70-90 Dominion ships came through the wormhole in that first convoy and the Klingon Fleet in Cardassia runs in the 100s if not 1000 ships, plus fortified systems. In order to so decisively defeat the Klingons and inflict such heavy losses, the attacking fleet would have had to achieved at the very least numerical parity, and would have had to have known exactly where and when to strike. That means it was the Cardassians who did most of the heavy lifting in that offensive providing 100s of their own ships, which indicates they had prepared for an offensive weeks in advance with intelligence and logistical prep of the announcement they joined the Dominion. This is important because it signifies that the Cardassians were already rebounding very markedly prior to the annexation, and that they are mentally in a space to fight and fight hard. If we recall, Dukat was a hell of a guerilla leader who inspired his men. Did he, and Mr. Damar, do this writ large with the entire Cardassian Union, unleashing a latinum-standard Dukat Gasconade? So far, it seems so.
Not only was Andre Robinson Claustrophobic, he as suffering from the flu. He did the whole episode in incredible discomfort with a high fever and nailed each of his lines.
By Inferno's Light was a pretty awesome episode for Worf. As for Dukat his turning back to bad here does make sense. Even when he was working with Kira he was a bit more brutal than she cared for, but also his personal ambition and the advancement of his people were pretty paramount. I think it was at least somewhat indicated the Cardassians were doing poorly against the Klingons. Being part of the Dominion might make them subordinate to a degree but Cardassians (presumably) will regain their lost territory. And he gets to be ruler more or less. Although the part about being indifferent to Ziyal's death may ring a little false. Then again he was very insistent she leave the station so he may really feel her death, if it had occurred, was something he wanted to prevent but she rejected it. (His mention of sons might also imply this step reunites him with his other children.) An interesting aspect of "Dr. Bashir I Presume" is that the woman who plays his mother is not really an actress. She is an Egyptian-American anthropologist named Fadwa El Guindi. Her previous, and only other, credit is a documentary she directed sponsored by the "Office of Folklife Programs at the Smithsonian Institution". However it looks like she did community theater and someone liked her performance in a play she co-wrote and co-directed. And I forgot that, in this episode, they got into why Rom might have certain hesitancy about romance. As well as why Nog's Mom is never even mentioned before.
It never mattered how much Trek we had watched - all of this kept us on the edge of our seats at the time, and kinda still does! When we had dinner with Armin and Nana, I said DS9 made us feel it was very real, that we were part of the family, and they both said they created the sets, and rehearsed accordingly. It was designed to absorb you so deeply into the series, and it did. We didnt have it on any network TV at the time here in Australia, instead, it was released only on VHS, each fortnight, and for sale at our local Blockbusters. God Bless em!! Each friday night we were there at 6pm, the new tape just arrived and we would binge with the kids over pizza. Best days ever!
This can serve as part of the backstory for Voyager since the producers were eager to cross promote their upcoming brand new spinoff show Voyager. Or depending on the air date of this episode Voyager is probably already airing.
Considering how obsessive Trek fans can be about continuity, it’s strange no one seems to object to the ban on genetic manipulation when an episode of The Next Generation depicted a research center doing major genetic experiments on humans. I also find it interesting that two recent Trek series has used the ban as a plot point, and both take the position that it is overly restrictive and conflicts with Federation ideals.
I always thought Cardassia should have been called "Cardass". You know, rhymes with...! Nice new digs, and the new framing works really well with a more or less blank background behind it.
@28:30 -- not true, you hit the first two in some previous episodes, you hit the third one at least ONCE, even thou not instantly from the beginning -- but yeah, that take was pretty meh, but hey, just keep it up, you DID nailed it already ;)
"THE DOCTOR" from Voyager, legend!
At last we meet the real Martok, and he very quickly becomes everyone's second favorite Klingon.
I've heard a fair amount of people say "first favorite" :P
He is my first favourite. I think he blows Worf completely out of the water, in DS9 at least.
Now the battle for the Alpha quadrant truly begins! With Cardassia joining the Dominion and giving them a foothold in the Alpha quadrant, the Federation/Klingon alliance is crucial to opposing the Dominion! But can they do it alone??
J.G. Hertzler's portrayal of General Martok made him one of my all-time favorite recurring characters on DS9! And now that he'll be in command of the Klingon forces permanently assigned to the Bajoran sector, we'll be seeing a lot of him! Frankly, they should have made J.G. a regular!
Now that the Dominion has officially set up shop in the Alpha quadrant, there is no going back. This is war!! 🖖🏼😠
Brian George as Richard Bashir is such good casting. And of course, Seinfeld fans will remember him as Babu!
And TBBT fans remember him too...
Also Fadwa El Guindi as his mother, made more remarkable in that she isn’t an actress. I absolutely believed these two were Julian’s parents.
In the Expanse as well i think, As the original Arjun Avasarala, Before the role had to be recast, Due to his unavailability. Because he basically got another job when sci fi cancelled it, but then Amazon picked it up for 3 more seasons 🤔
The acting all through this episode is exceptional. There are old wounds that are brought to light here and the ties to Trek continuity is perfect.
@emmaincalico so does that mean that Dr Bashier is related to Raj. 😅
As many of us know, Andrew Robinson who plays Garak is claustrophobic in real life - and of course he wasn't in tight quarters here since there is a camera in his face .. lol.. but regardless, he knocks the panic attack scene out of the park! When he got the script and read where he is trapped inside a tight space, he probably thought "Oh yeah, I got this.. it won't take a lot of acting.. : :)
I believe the relevant interview quote was "I didn't have to act, I was there"! Presumably the special set was fairly enclosed with just a few gaps for cameras.
Alexander Siddig was initially very angry at what was essentially a massive retcon. He got the script a couple days before shooting began. He said that had he known this backstory all along, he would have played the character differently.
Siddig did force a change to the script. Originally, Julian and Miles blackmailed Zimmerman to stay quiet. Siddig insisted the secret be revealed to all, and I agree that was the right call.
I do think the ep would have been better had Julian been expelled by Starfleet and Bajor immediately hired him and put him in the exact same job. It’s the Bajoran’s station and they could force this if they wanted. But they wouldn’t have to force it because Julian would have the support of both The Sisko and Kira.
Yeah, but Paramount would have vetoed Bashir being hired by Bajor for one reason: they wouldn’t have wanted to budget in a whole new uniform for Alexander Siddig. (For those who don’t know what I’m talking about, look into the Costume design trivia for Star Trek Generations.)
@@davewolf6256 Bajoran uniforms are so ugly anyway.
I couldn't remember if I was misremembering that, because in the end, even though there's some older scenes that don't make quite as much sense with this knowledge, it does sort of fit with a lot of his personality. Feeling like he owes something to the universe, and like he should be capable of any challenge. However I know he HATED some of the minor dialogue coming later where he "shows off" his enhanced abilities, as if he was Data.
The writers could have did almost the same episode about being genetically improved to "normal" and not retconned the character. Their choice ruined his inner dialogue in "Distant Voices" when he was fighting the Lethian brain invasion.
@@jerodastThe biggest problem by far is (as has been pointed out) Distant Voices. However, overall it’s a pretty solid retcon.
He was intentionally written as an annoying Scrappy with the intention to gradually make him a great character. But much of it makes sense now… his over the top puppy dogging of Jadzia makes a lot of sense if what he was really doing was chaffing. With her long lived Dax background, she might be the biggest threat to figuring him out.
It subtly improves (the horrid) Melora by how Julian suddenly whips up a solution for her that nobody else had managed.
The Data lines… yeah, retconning character: good, changing the character: bad.
The guy working with bashir, is technically a main character on voyager.
Not to forget he played the scientist in the opening episode of The Orville, And Raj's dad in big Bang Theory. He was VERY comical in that role. Very talented man
@@roxannlegg750 the OP is talking about Dr. Zimmerman, portrayed by Robert Picardo, who, as the “emergency medical hologram” was a main character on Voyager. You are talking about Mr. Bashir, portrayed by Brian George, who only had a small role in one episode of Voyager.
By Inferno's Light is the very definition of "S TIER TREK". It's amazing how much they packed into this one episode!
Incredible everything - acting, effects, plot....and we see deep characterization for Jem Hadar and Vorta. Garak has claustrophobia. We see a Breen for the first time since Kira and Dukat rescued Ziyal.
Dukat leading the Cardassians in the Dominion!?!
The Dominion has a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant! SO many ships came through!
The actor that plays Bashir got to go wild in this episode!
Best of all, we finally got our last cast member- GENERAL MARTOK joins the crew to bring honor!
Last cast member? Ezri doesn't count?
Mmm "last cast member" interesting observation. It is cool looking back from later seasons how many important characters were introduced at least a season or two earlier and allowed to grow. However, there is one (slightly divisive?) recurring character whose actor recently died, who has not appeared yet.
(Oh right, and of course That One other important character we sort of haven't met yet.)
SPOILERS
Obviously I'm talking about Thot'gor.
@@jerodast SPOILERISH- Well, I should count Admiral Ross.
And Keevan! That adorable scamp!
I agree - we do get glimses of JemHadar of having their own sense of worth and value set. Altho rare, there are individuals who do, and will stand for values beyond obedience. Awesome set of characters.
Important thing to know, that is almost never followed, the Klingons and Romulans are in the Beta Quadrant, and there are some Federation territories on the far side of the Empires. Earth is on the border between Alpha and Beta Quadrants.... Yet we almost never get "Beta Quadrant" said on screen. 😅
wasnt their like 5 or 6 quadrants at one point, somehow
@@nostrum6410 I'm pretty sure there were only ever 4 - alpha, beta, gamma, delta (like the first four letters in the Greek alphabet)
@@nostrum6410 yeah, I think there was a moment when the TOS crew said something like that. There are a lot of times when the wrong term gets used, like calling a solar system a galaxy.... LOL 🤣
I prefer the maps online that have the alpha/beta border cutting through the Klingon and Romulan empires rather than the silly idea of using Earth (like Star Trek wasn't Earthcentric enough already). It fits much better with dialogue, especially the war talk in DS9.
@@dupersuper1938 I can't disagree with you. 🖖
Please state the nature of the medical emergency.
A Star Trek line that goes down in history!
Season 3 episode 18
Bashir answered the question wrong so he would not finish first in his class.
Remember the episode "the Rapture" it predicted the Dominion Cardassian thing
LOCUSTS!
I love Dukat's pronunciation of "do-min-i-on"
I will forever be bitter that Garak didn't appear in 'Dr. Bashir, I Presume'
Tooooo true!
I like to imagine that Garak, with his Obsidian Order ties and ability to deep dive into getting so much information, knew about Bashir all along and it's the reason he befriended him.
Hey! Just think- the Mirror Universe Julian wouldn't be enhanced!
That kind of enhancements wouldn't have been available to Terrans.
That explains why he's angry and not a doctor in that universe.
He didn't really strike me as developmentally delayed though which makes me wonder if maybe either original Julian would have eventually either learned how to be more or less functionally average without the treatment. Just not a doctor or anything. (More likely it's that they didn't think of any of this when they wrote that Julian.)
@@ThomasReeves-s7u Well, Yeah- but I prefer to think Mirror Julian is just a late bloomer without the enhancements. He's not doing warp calculations in his head like our Julian.
Weirdly, people compare him to Khan in that. It’s actually possible genetic enhancements are cheap and widely available in the mirror universe.
@@silikon2 I suppose so. It might even be a requirement that humans undergo them to make better slaves. They'll work longer, won't get sick and die as easily, etc.
That's actually kind of another plot hole. From the kid they described I don't see how he could grow up to even be normal. Well, maybe the alternate universe had some genetic enhancement of a sort to get him up to normal speed lol.
If a Changeling wanted to spy on the prisoners, wearing a Breen suit would contain their liquid form when they need to rest. It would have been a good twist.
The Breen themselves have a semi-fluid form that the suit helps contain.
@@tonyrichards254 huh? Has that been confirmed in one of the newer shows? Last I knew, no one really knew why they wore the suits and it was just speculation they needed the suits to keep cool, but that was about it.
@@LadyBeyondTheWallyeah, in the last season of Discovery. The way they used the Breen was pretty cool
@@tonyrichards254 I know little about the Breen other than their home world is quite cold and their suits are environmentally controlled for their body temperature.
@@michaellangan6385 I'm still going through Discovery pretty slowly. Unlike TOS & TNG, there are fewer (if any) light-hearted, pallet-cleansing episodes between the heavy dramatic ones. I'm enjoying it thus far, but it is dense and takes time between episodes to digest, so far less binge-watching.
It's thanks to DS9 that Cardassians became my joint favourite alien race, i already loved Romulans.
Cardassians, best depth, Borg, best scary, Dominion, best scheming, Romulans, best ships, Klingons, best Martok :P
Very clever of the Dominion, use fake Martoc to encourage Gowron to attack the Cardassians, weaken Cardassia enough to encourage them to join the Dominion.
I love how the camera of Ducat's laptop follows him when he moves as if there was a camera man in his room ;)
This explains why Bashir never became a professional tennis player like he wanted. He could have done easily but testing would have caught him out. Also makes you think - Did he REALLY get that one exam question wrong on his medical final, or did he throw it so he wouldn't be validictorian and attracted too much attention?
It's implied Bashir intentionally got that question wrong since it was a question any first year med student would have gotten right.
I always thought that Bashir backed out of being a tennis pro because 1.) It would be completely unethical and unfair to win physical competitions just because you were genetically superior to your competitors (boy I could draw parallels to today but I won't) and 2.) As a result it would also be an empty life. In fact, it's one of the things that I'd call a plot hole for this whole storyline.
Ah, the secret's out now about Bashir.
I was wondering if Ollie would make it to this ep without it being spoiled. 😊
Cardassia is joining the Dominion.
Flashback to Broken Link: female Founder says to Garak, "They're dead. You're dead. You're all dead."
I seem to remember hearing/reading something at the time that the powers that be (aka Ira Behr) had become disturbed by some fans romanticizing Dukat and finding him appealing so they decided to turn him more evil. I'm not sure of the accuracy of that considering a season 6 episode that was written with Kira in mind until Nana Visitor protested to Ira against it and it got changed.
When you read the episode titles at the beginning, i'm surprised that you weren't curious if it might have been three parter, considering it's called 'Doctor Bashir, I Presume' lol. Obviously long trm DS9 lovers like me know different, but it sounds plausible.
I never thought of that! Good point.
It's funny we have two big Bashir twists in a row haha. Neither one of them written necessarily considering all the implications for the episodes prior :P
Dukat is going to make Cardassia strong again.
He'll bring the Pakleds into the Dominion.
They'll make it strong.
In Lakarian City, they're eating the Voles!
@@MsAlexisPiazza Vorta propaganda, man.
@@jasoncaldwell5627 *ma’am ;-)
@@MsAlexisPiazza Yes, sorry. (Unless you're a Founder- then you're gender fluid. Literally!)
Would love to correct all the statements and predictions you made about the first video but I'm gonna let it play out and let you see for yourself 😂
And with the introduction of Dr. Zimmermann you now have to watch Voyager too...
It's funny seeing someone who is decidedly "into Star Trek" of this era not immediately recognize Robert Picardo :)
Now, now, there's no need for that kind of punishment.
@@jerodast To be fair, he's only sampled TOS and TNG so far. DS9 is his first complete watch-through.
@@rjcurrie61 Now, now.... Voyager gave us Trek's best Captain after all.
@@ThiloAdamitzTrue. He kinda skimmed his way through TOS and TNG but they were Episodic and DS9 was semi Serialized.
Lots of consequences from what happened in the two-parter. The Dominion now has a foothold on our side of the wormhole! And the wormhole is now impossible to destroy; the last-ditch decision to cut off the Dominion from the wormhole by blasting it to high hell isn't even an option anymore.
"I need to make Cardassia strong again."
- Dukat, sounding a lot like a former PotUS who is on the ballot again this year
The saying that I think you're meaning was kind of used by Reagan. Although he had the word "Let's" before it. The exact saying was used in Octavia Butler's "Parable of the Talents" but that novel looks to have come out a year after this episode.
Yep. ...and he's just as trustworthy.
😂🤣
Dukat is all about war. The "other guy" isn''t. But the Democrat party IS all about war. As are ALL leftist governments in the West. YOU are not the good guys.
@@MrDeathpilot Trump doesn't want war. But Democrats and all leftist governments are calling for it. YOU are not a good guy.
Locusts! Straight to Cardassia!
Not sure about that Zimmerman guy and that "The Emergency Medical Hologram". Bad idea for Star Trek - hope we never see them again 😏
Fake Bashir in charge of blood screenings!
The only problem I had watching By Inferno's Light was that I kept forgetting that Kira has already given birth. I'm constantly worried about her commanding a battleship "in her condition", but she's no longer in that condition. It will take a minute for me to get used to that.
Don't be too excited about the Dominion War. The executives at Paramount never wanted a war in Star Trek. They just want single episode stories for DS9's entire run. And for now, the writers have to stick to single episode stories, occasionally sneaking in bits of the conflict whenever they can get away with it. The full war will have to wait till the Paramount executives are too busy interfering with Star Trek: Voyager to notice what the writers have done on DS9.
Thanks to Ira Steven Behr who kept pushing for a full scale all out Dominion War.
People gloat about Gowron being the GOAT Klingon because of his stare and his lines but to me Martok is the GOAT Klingon. Badass, honorable and a true friend.
Zimmermann has quite the ego. You'll see a hologram version of him in an EMH program on Voyager (and you have seen him as an EMH in First Contact on the Enterprise E).
And you'll see a glimpse of the Federation penal colony in New Zealand in Voyager as well.
I don't think I've seen anyone gloating about Gowron being the ultimate Klingon since Martok came around. However he is still deservedly honored as the ultimate Gowron haha.
I do wish the moment when the Romulans joined the fleet had had a little bit more time to breathe given how monumental it was.
I can't describe how it felt, having watched TOS since I was a kid in the 70s, to see the big three on the same side.
The EMH (Emergency Medical Hologram) first appeared on Star Trek Voyager.
As others have said, now you've met the EMH, you've got to watch ST Voyager.
Please State The Nature Of The Medical Emergency.
😂🤣😅
May your channel live long and prosper! Anyone who does not like your reactions is a petaq!
The EMH in Voyager, AKA “The Doctor” is a great character.
Genetic engineering is illegal because of Khan Noonian Singh.
I'd love to imagine Zimmermans schedule being early and all the events of "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" had happened 2 weeks earlier. While The changeling doppelganger was still there. Imagine Bashir sitting down with his parents and his father saying "Let's not talk about this deep dark secret" "yes, of course Dad, can you just remind me what that secret is? Of course I know it but I just want to make sure you still do"
Hahaha yeah that would've been a disaster. I know they still treat it as an episodic show in a lot of cases, but man I'd like to think they had enough of an eye on the overall continuity to prevent that :)
@@jerodast not so much from episode schedules but I love the in universe story where Zimmermans visit was scheduled 2 weeks earlier and maybe as a result real Bashir comes home from the Gamma Quadrant prison only to find out the LMH is already finished without him
Dukat's big comeback, from demoted and carrying Kira's bag to head of state.
Also Martok as so good as Worf's hype man. Quark's comments to Leeta... lmao!
lol I forgot you don’t have the context from Voyager for the Doctor. Interesting to see your reaction to the episode.
I was thinking the same thing. 😅😂 Had to catch myself and remind myself he's not up to full speed on the Trek universe or at least as it was back in the 90s.
This episode really puts Rivals in a different context. Of COURSE he'd be good at racketball.
Should you be getting into Voyager at this point?
He's not Target Audience.
If he was, he would have started Voyager right after "Past Tense 1 & 2"
(Stardate 48315.6)
One of my favourite lines is "It would ruin General Martok's song."
I'm curious with DS9 and Voyager overlapping are you going to eventually get into Voyager? Either both simultaneously or once DS9 is done? Also this is the same EMH from "First Contact".
Thank you, Oliver! 🖖 Your new place looks great. 🏡 I'm glad you noted that the design for the Breen resembles the costume of 'Boushh' which 'Leia' donned to rescue 'Han'. I've been thinking that since 1995!
Co-watching Voyager for timeline sync...
This is definitely when everything changes for the show and continues to get better.😎 As for the second episode, it was a real joy seeing Doctor Zimmerman from “Voyager”. He’s the creator of the holographic Doctor on that show and, by this point, had appeared himself in at least one episode of that show. The genetic engineering stigma started with Khan in TOS and has continued into “Star Trek Enterprise”, “Star Trek Strange New Worlds” and “Star Trek Prodigy”. So, it’s a VERY big thing with Starfleet.
Fun fact: In real life, Andrew Robinson, the actor who plays Garak, actually does suffer from claustrophobia and did had a small panic attack on the set during the scene, even though the set piece wasn't as confined as it looks in the episode.
As you should be aware, with greater powers comes greater ambition. You should go back and watch Space Seed again. Just 72 of these humans were able to take over not one but two Starfleet ships nearly destroy the Enterprise twice and their chaos resulted in the creation and destruction of a planet. Now I get it. Bashir is the exception to the rule. But you cannot think that these incidents did not play a large part in Federation policy regarding Genetic Tampering. But I would also argue that these cases are incredibly rare due to their banning that should they pop up they be handled on a case by case basis. Picard said it best. "Have we become so cowardly that we would condemn an innocent man because he carries the blood line of a current enemy?"
Now competition is another factor. If one kid gets genetic enhancements to get ahead what is stopping parents from doing the same to keep their kids on an equal field? Playing God in an attempt to fix the species is never a good idea. Or did you not watch Firefly?
Don't you just love it when Gul Dukat exudes such delicious evil? He is a character that's soooo fun to hate, yet also complex and mysterious at the same time.
I always thought it would have been funny 'Doctor Bashir, I Presume' Would have taken place an episode or two before 'In Purgatory's Shadow' Changling Bashir would help Dr Zimmerman as to not arouse suspicion and when his parents show up
Parents: don't worry we won't let your big secret get out.
Changling Bashir: Uhhh what big secret?
Parents: You know your big secret the one that if it gets out will ruin all your plans
Changling Bashir: Oh that one...if we had to put it into words what would that be?
Parents: Are you sure you're superior to us?
with their holographic technology there is really no reason to have real people on starships during war
Julian allowed to stay in Starfleet and practice: I like to think there’s a subtext here. The Feds have recently dealt with another Borg invasion, a war with the Klingons, and the expected one with the Dominion and Cardassia. They can’t afford to lose a talented (and maybe VERY talented) doctor and officer.
It bugged me they seemed to ignore their own rule that a gmo can’t serve in Starfleet or practice medicine. This explains why.
And btw, the reason a gmo would be barred from serving in Starfleet or practicing is precisely to prevent what happened here: of course the kid wouldn’t be at fault, it would be the parents fault. But not banning this would give parents little incentive not to just do it anyway, especially with the very light slap on the wrist Julian’s father received.
It's so odd to see someone see Zimmerman and not recognise the Doctor.
🤣😅
Spoilers! It’s not yet been revealed Zimmerman is the 23rd Doctor.
No idea why this showed up in my recommended, but look like it's time to binge watch your ds9 uploads.
Welcome to the journey!
This certainly explains why Bashir finished second in his class. Less attention that way.
I like that it complements that backstory detail!
I don't like how the mind virus haunting him with his own regrets and self-doubts in that episode didn't ever bring up the augmentation, but then I don't like that episode much anyway :P
Probably should have watched at least the 2 part series premiere of Star Trek Voyager before this Bashir episode...
@28:50 Ah that's right, Ollie isn't aware of Voyage being on television at the same time as DS-9.
*Highly* recommend the movie *Gattaca* if you would like to delve more into the questions and possible eventualities unfettered genetic engineering somewhat like what they did with Dr. Bashir can bring to society. It's a great thinking sci-fi movie!
PS: If I was Worf, I would have rip the tube from the Jem-Hadar's neck while fighting.
Part of Starfleet's decision on Julian was also his service record. Most likely no negative incidents, has always been an exceptional Doctor. No shortcuts, ie using the genetically enhanced status to skip parts of his training, etc. Recommended to stay from his commanding officer (I'm sure Sisko recommended that he remain his Chief Medical Officer)
Holy crap in a handbag! If you could not see that coming, your eyes must be for decoration only. Sisko’s prophecy, Dukat desperately trying to get his daughter off the station, and finally the Klingon Federation war winding down.
*Doctor Bashir I Presume* and a future episode in the final season is the closest we ever get of getting a crossover with Voyager on DS9.
Picardo playing the Doctor from Voyager was a treat to see. At this point Trek was at it's popularity peek and engaged in some understandable cross promotion between the individual series.
Oh wait. Dr Zimmerman I mean. 🤣😅 My bad.
And you dudes shy around women or nervous or whatever I'm sure you can relate to Rom and his awkward behavior around beautiful women. I used to be like that back in the day. I wasn't near as awkward as Rom but I did have my difficulties.
I’m so excited for you as you continue your ds9 journey and this is one of the episodes I have been looking forward to seeing you react too. (Mild spoiler alert for Voyager) the EMH is explored on Voyager which is why the nod in First Contact. You’re watching series by series and not by air date but at this point in time ds9 was well established and Voyager had been a thing for at least two seasons so the EMH was old hat. Sorry for the spoiler for a show that aired 30 years ago. Please please keep watching and reacting because Star Trek is in the middle of its Second Renaissance and everytime I watch an episode of SNW or LD I can’t help but think “oh but Olly is gonna love this though…”
Its noteworthy that the Klingons were driven out of Cardassian space so quickly. Only like 70-90 Dominion ships came through the wormhole in that first convoy and the Klingon Fleet in Cardassia runs in the 100s if not 1000 ships, plus fortified systems. In order to so decisively defeat the Klingons and inflict such heavy losses, the attacking fleet would have had to achieved at the very least numerical parity, and would have had to have known exactly where and when to strike. That means it was the Cardassians who did most of the heavy lifting in that offensive providing 100s of their own ships, which indicates they had prepared for an offensive weeks in advance with intelligence and logistical prep of the announcement they joined the Dominion. This is important because it signifies that the Cardassians were already rebounding very markedly prior to the annexation, and that they are mentally in a space to fight and fight hard. If we recall, Dukat was a hell of a guerilla leader who inspired his men. Did he, and Mr. Damar, do this writ large with the entire Cardassian Union, unleashing a latinum-standard Dukat Gasconade? So far, it seems so.
Congrats on the new place, looks snazzy. Will Huxley be making any appearances or is she still back home?
Not only was Andre Robinson Claustrophobic, he as suffering from the flu. He did the whole episode in incredible discomfort with a high fever and nailed each of his lines.
By Inferno's Light was a pretty awesome episode for Worf. As for Dukat his turning back to bad here does make sense. Even when he was working with Kira he was a bit more brutal than she cared for, but also his personal ambition and the advancement of his people were pretty paramount. I think it was at least somewhat indicated the Cardassians were doing poorly against the Klingons. Being part of the Dominion might make them subordinate to a degree but Cardassians (presumably) will regain their lost territory. And he gets to be ruler more or less. Although the part about being indifferent to Ziyal's death may ring a little false. Then again he was very insistent she leave the station so he may really feel her death, if it had occurred, was something he wanted to prevent but she rejected it. (His mention of sons might also imply this step reunites him with his other children.)
An interesting aspect of "Dr. Bashir I Presume" is that the woman who plays his mother is not really an actress. She is an Egyptian-American anthropologist named Fadwa El Guindi. Her previous, and only other, credit is a documentary she directed sponsored by the "Office of Folklife Programs at the Smithsonian Institution". However it looks like she did community theater and someone liked her performance in a play she co-wrote and co-directed.
And I forgot that, in this episode, they got into why Rom might have certain hesitancy about romance. As well as why Nog's Mom is never even mentioned before.
"Dukat has gone pure evil"... *bites lip shut!!!*
It never mattered how much Trek we had watched - all of this kept us on the edge of our seats at the time, and kinda still does! When we had dinner with Armin and Nana, I said DS9 made us feel it was very real, that we were part of the family, and they both said they created the sets, and rehearsed accordingly. It was designed to absorb you so deeply into the series, and it did.
We didnt have it on any network TV at the time here in Australia, instead, it was released only on VHS, each fortnight, and for sale at our local Blockbusters. God Bless em!! Each friday night we were there at 6pm, the new tape just arrived and we would binge with the kids over pizza. Best days ever!
This can serve as part of the backstory for Voyager since the producers were eager to cross promote their upcoming brand new spinoff show Voyager. Or depending on the air date of this episode Voyager is probably already airing.
I thought this was the holographic episode with Bashir. It's cool though because they're both great episodes.
you so should have picked up Voyager at the time of ds9.
I always forget this twist happens so late in the series. It feels like such a fundamental part of Bashir's character.
Considering how obsessive Trek fans can be about continuity, it’s strange no one seems to object to the ban on genetic manipulation when an episode of The Next Generation depicted a research center doing major genetic experiments on humans. I also find it interesting that two recent Trek series has used the ban as a plot point, and both take the position that it is overly restrictive and conflicts with Federation ideals.
The Breen in this episode is played by the actress who also plays M'Pella the dabo girl
im sure a star flee minimum security prison would be like a vacation resort these days
like sisko, garak's story arc is has so much more depth in the last seasons. you have so much to look forward to.
martok is one of my favorite in ds9 and he is going to be a great allied
Sorta a sudo Star Trek Voyager crossover
Martok is my favorite Klingon
I always thought Cardassia should have been called "Cardass". You know, rhymes with...!
Nice new digs, and the new framing works really well with a more or less blank background behind it.
Babu!
He will get his revenge.
ugh you're so handsome 🩷
Martok has arrived!!!
What a fantasic reveal
How did they get the actor of Bashir to look like he was pressing his own head (Hologram) in the 90's?
A stand-in's hand is touching the holographic Bashir.
@@redpillfreedom6692 It looks very well done.
MCGA
MARTOK! MARTOK! MARTOK!
Did no one tell you to watch Voyager pilot before these episodes?
@28:30 -- not true, you hit the first two in some previous episodes, you hit the third one at least ONCE, even thou not instantly from the beginning -- but yeah, that take was pretty meh, but hey, just keep it up, you DID nailed it already ;)
28:12 actually the way he usually introduces himself is;
Please state the nature of the medical emergency