I (obviously) don't know PRIME personally, and I probably don't agree with many of his takes. But this was one of the most wonderfully authentic-feeling discussions. Super enjoyable.
12:15 is spot on. My experience with mocks in codebases has been mostly with dependency injection. Typically mocks are used for testing parent functions that have subroutine operations like kafka pub/sub, or functions/methods involving datastore reads/writes. I see the case for either doing a high-level functional test in a container on an ephemeral but real instance of the mockable entity, OR unit testing but decoupling dependency from operation.
Easier or harder to get started today or 10 years ago is an interesting question. I think that if you are someone looking to make a full product yourself, then prime is right, it is way harder. You need to know at least a little bit of so many things. The fact that we even have large teams of "dev-ops" engineers says something about how complex our tools have become.
Loved the podcast. This could just be me, but I felt the cutting was a tad too much. An example would be at 45:22-45:23. I was listening in the background, and I had to replay it as I thought I missed something. The flow of the podcast with these aggressive cuts made it a little hard for my brain to multi-task. This could be a skill issue on my part. Other than that, great podcast fellas!
At work, we use mocks. Mostly because we've got a bs requirement of 100% coverage. Then in react apps, without how everyone uses hooks, kinda hard to test without mocks. What you'd need to do is move all hooks up one level to be able to pass them as props but sometimes that's not feasible, but it's also just making a cluster fuck imo. I haven't seen if solid fixes this issue. Need to check. I general, I would like to just unit test custom hooks and ignore components. Rip coverage, you won't be missed. Then you can test the app with play write and cover components that way.
I have pretty severe ADHD and let me tell you that there are days that no amount of discipline can overcome it. I can fight it all day to exhaustion but when your brain simply refuses to engage with something there's not much you can do. I've spent a whole day reading a book, got 20 pages in and remembered nothing about it.
I started with RPG Maker too! Got into making NPCs, then events, then I wanted to publish tutorials on a website, learned to make said website, got into web dev
ayo Flip relax on the editing, let them rip! its nice you trying to smooth out pauses but hard cuts doesnt help. i know you put a lot of effort into it, but long form discussions are fine with some pauses
@@backendbanterfm I’m assuming this was to at least help cut the total listening time, right? I found that I could listen to it and get the gist of the conversation, but I did find it a little distracting and started wondering what was going on. I started first on Apple Podcasts before it was mentioned this was on youtube and I noticed it there on Apple but just figured maybe there were connectivity issues somewhere. After seeing the YT video it was clearly intentional so, this explains a lot.
I still definitely mock network requests, but depending on situation would expect elsewhere to be an integration or functional test which would actually make the call. There are also edge cases like disk getting full, rare network issues etc where mocking is pretty much only way to go. Other than that I'd agree it's better to avoid those, consider using DI etc
I'm going to count the levels of inheritance at work. I'm pretty sure we've got at least 5. Heck out tests have inheritance. And to make things worse, it's python so we've got multiple inheritance.
Really enjoying this conversation but to be real with you, the constant cutting of each of your pauses is a little too aggressive and distracting - for longer form conversations the editing could breathe a little more
The amount of layers of abstraction in the infrastructure that makes everything easier -- but also harder. If you are trying to host some full stack product ans you need to configure the infra top to bottom is gonna be hard unless you know about...a vpn gateway, dns, aad, vnets...its har...ezies
Bro! What happened Prime, is you were freed from your addiction. Whom God sets free, he is free indeed. I have been freed, and people that don't know Jesus, don't know what that freedom is.
Being a good as developer as Primeagen is my life goal
“Once you are mature enough to say no to how you feel, and do the thing you must, you can go a lot further and a lot faster.” 🔥😤🔥
I (obviously) don't know PRIME personally, and I probably don't agree with many of his takes. But this was one of the most wonderfully authentic-feeling discussions. Super enjoyable.
let me guess, you dont agree with his take on clean code?
Awesome podcast. I found it by chance and loved it ever since. Can't believe you even got The Prime Megan on, it was awesome.
12:15 is spot on. My experience with mocks in codebases has been mostly with dependency injection. Typically mocks are used for testing parent functions that have subroutine operations like kafka pub/sub, or functions/methods involving datastore reads/writes. I see the case for either doing a high-level functional test in a container on an ephemeral but real instance of the mockable entity, OR unit testing but decoupling dependency from operation.
I enjoyed every second of this podcast. Thanks
Im getting a full on imposter explosion just from listening to The Prime
Classic
3:16 So good to hear about QBASIC. That was my first programming language...
37:18 prime just hits his pause button for 35 seconds without any blinking and stuff. Incredible
I would suggest posting the full unedited video without cuts its more natual for this type of medium
When I listen primeagen he sounds so freaking genius that I feel dumb
When I listen to him he sounds mostly dumb. I guess its relative.
no u just grug
@@WarrenBuffering-kj7ustrue
@@ITSecNEOGrug refers to a very simple developer, it’s a Primeagen inside joke.
Not genius just experienced and has a certain 'know it all' way of speaking.
Prime is awesome, great interview :)
13:44 "Say no to how you feel and do the thing you must - then you can go a lot farther a lot faster." 🧙♂
Easier or harder to get started today or 10 years ago is an interesting question.
I think that if you are someone looking to make a full product yourself, then prime is right, it is way harder. You need to know at least a little bit of so many things. The fact that we even have large teams of "dev-ops" engineers says something about how complex our tools have become.
You dont need any of these tools or teams "devops" to start your journey. Its easier than ever to start as a self taught software engineer
@@jordixboy But I bet it's hard for new developers to realise that.
@@marcusrehn6915 yeah can be true. I think there's too much stuff, and you can get saturated by the huge amount of information available
I can't imagine a $5 VPS in 2008, today, every infra company will sell you one.
That's all you need to start up a service for a lot of users.
Loved the podcast. This could just be me, but I felt the cutting was a tad too much.
An example would be at 45:22-45:23. I was listening in the background, and I had to replay it as I thought I missed something. The flow of the podcast with these aggressive cuts made it a little hard for my brain to multi-task. This could be a skill issue on my part.
Other than that, great podcast fellas!
Thanks so much for the feedback, less cutting in future episodes!
At work, we use mocks. Mostly because we've got a bs requirement of 100% coverage. Then in react apps, without how everyone uses hooks, kinda hard to test without mocks. What you'd need to do is move all hooks up one level to be able to pass them as props but sometimes that's not feasible, but it's also just making a cluster fuck imo.
I haven't seen if solid fixes this issue. Need to check.
I general, I would like to just unit test custom hooks and ignore components. Rip coverage, you won't be missed. Then you can test the app with play write and cover components that way.
Thanks for posting
I have pretty severe ADHD and let me tell you that there are days that no amount of discipline can overcome it. I can fight it all day to exhaustion but when your brain simply refuses to engage with something there's not much you can do. I've spent a whole day reading a book, got 20 pages in and remembered nothing about it.
Just try to work on it one step at a time and make sure to take advantage of the days that are good to their fullest extent
I started with RPG Maker too! Got into making NPCs, then events, then I wanted to publish tutorials on a website, learned to make said website, got into web dev
20:50 "I actually don't think I could have built it that application given today's technology" 🎯
ayo Flip relax on the editing, let them rip! its nice you trying to smooth out pauses but hard cuts doesnt help. i know you put a lot of effort into it, but long form discussions are fine with some pauses
i didn’t edit this
@@flipmediaprod oh dang, sorry. i thought the host said you were. in that case forget what i was saying and keep up the great work!
All flip did was add the intro and ending, I misspoke so sorry!
44:40 So you're saying that *left* is the way out? 🤔 Hm, interesting... 🤭
Got a new listener! Cant wait to see more too many coding podcasts are terribly boring this one is not
Some of the cuts feel very unnatural, feels like you left out quite a lot side info 😢
Agreed, my bad! No AI edits in the future!
@@backendbanterfm I’m assuming this was to at least help cut the total listening time, right? I found that I could listen to it and get the gist of the conversation, but I did find it a little distracting and started wondering what was going on. I started first on Apple Podcasts before it was mentioned this was on youtube and I noticed it there on Apple but just figured maybe there were connectivity issues somewhere. After seeing the YT video it was clearly intentional so, this explains a lot.
When beard and mustache merges 👌😄
this is awesome
Thanks so much!
I still definitely mock network requests, but depending on situation would expect elsewhere to be an integration or functional test which would actually make the call. There are also edge cases like disk getting full, rare network issues etc where mocking is pretty much only way to go. Other than that I'd agree it's better to avoid those, consider using DI etc
Hello from St George!
I'm going to count the levels of inheritance at work. I'm pretty sure we've got at least 5. Heck out tests have inheritance. And to make things worse, it's python so we've got multiple inheritance.
God touched you, Prime.
Why are there so many cuts? pretty hard to watch actually
dude open table is way older than ‘09 timeframe. it went public around there.
agree it was easier back then.
We greet you, Lord of the Degens.
Really enjoying this conversation but to be real with you, the constant cutting of each of your pauses is a little too aggressive and distracting - for longer form conversations the editing could breathe a little more
Agreed, it will get better going forward, thanks!
Good podcast, the edits are a bit aggressive at times, words get chopped and sometimes the flow suffers for it.
Thanks a bunch! It will be better in the future :)
the editing on this is a bit rough at times, makes the speech a little stilted.
Yea, just let the conversation play out
flip goat editor
i didn’t edit this lmao, appreciate you tho🙏
👏👏
The amount of layers of abstraction in the infrastructure that makes everything easier -- but also harder. If you are trying to host some full stack product ans you need to configure the infra top to bottom is gonna be hard unless you know about...a vpn gateway, dns, aad, vnets...its har...ezies
10000%
Sorry but the editing in this super choppy. It's really hard to listen to
how did i not know this happened?
Idk yo
Lane, you *need* to talk to Sean T. Allen or Sylvan Clebsch.
Thanks ill look into that!
I remember perfectily when i was a kid i used to use rpg maker to try to make my games lol
RPG maker was a vibe
Oh shit
Hallelujah - thanks to the LORD for the Primeagent.
I'm not listening to this. Too much cutting
Honestly thanks for the feedback! Gonna tone it way back in future episodes
@@backendbanterfm Thanks!
What's wrong with GoDaddy that the host does that puke sound?
It's awful the cuts all over the podcast
Bro! What happened Prime, is you were freed from your addiction. Whom God sets free, he is free indeed. I have been freed, and people that don't know Jesus, don't know what that freedom is.