if anyone ends up getting a model M because of this video, I highly recommend actually purchasing the nut driver as well. previous owners don't always clean them and they can become pretty dirty from regular use.
Id just like to tell everyone that the AT connector (5 pin din) used in the IBM model F and M boards are still totally usable on today's computers, not "just for parts" like the guy said. A simple adapter is all thats needed to convert AT to PS/2
@@ibrahimaysu8247 I think he was talking about adapting it to PS/2. Converting PS/2 to USB requires still a converter. It goes like that: [AT Connector > PS/2] = Adapter | [PS/2 > USB] = Converter. Also converting one with a terminal plug or an older xt plug (without leds) to usb is also possible, it just requires a special converter.
The one shown at 12:49 is not a terminal keyboard; it is an XT keyboard. The IBM PC-XT did not have BIOS support for keyboard lock lights, so that's why the keyboard doesn't include them. But like most Model Ms, it is XT/AT autoswitching, so with a 5-pin to PS/2 adapter, or a replacement PS/2 cable, it will work fine with any modern computer, if you don't mind the lack of the lock lights.
It was actually a terminal keyboard, as it had field keys that were present on the other terminal keyboard, but are not on the XT keyboard, as well as 24 function keys
I'm using a Model M 122 key terminal Keyboard with Windows. You just have to solder four wires to a teensy board and load soarers firmware. I have more keys than I know what to do with.
There are now adapters that let you use the terminal model Ms with normal PCs (Look up soarer's converter), so there isn't inherently as much of a reason to stray away from one now if you can still find one cheap.
I own a 1390120 model M. It doesn't bother me that it lacks the lock lights, it is the smoothest and best performing keyboard I've ever used outside of a beam spring. I'm planning to get it overhauled in the coming weeks with bolt mods and just getting the entire thing freshened up.
Don't be afraid of the AT connectors. One can either swap the cable for a PS2 (identical SDK connector on the keyboard itself), or adapt the AT connector (available at Amazon). It's the same keyboard. Although he mentioned something about the lights not locking, that's not been my experience. I did a lot of swapping cables, though; since I used old, old tech through the 90s. It's possible that I had a PS2 kb with an AT cable on it. In any case, the swap isn't like the PS2-USB adaptor. It's just wired through, and the signals it carries are the same either way.
I am typing on my second Model M keyboard. I wish to thank you for sharing your valuable information and advise about how to select one. I am a senior who is challenged by poor dexterity, but find the Model M the most comfortable keyboard for writing long articles. The model M has to be the best keyboard ever developed.....
Can the non detachable cable ever be replaced on my 71G4644 as the flat areas insulation is brittle & coming apart. Terrific video, learned a lot by watching. Thanks,
My friend and I have a few older Dell keyboard with Alps switches (pretty much the closest thing to a Model M), and the keyboard has a huge space at the top where there isn't anything going on. My friend had the idea to put an active USB converter inside the keyboard, then cut a hole in the back for a female USB port. That way, the keyboard has a removable cable and it's USB. Just for laughs, we put a 32 GB flash drive inside the keyboard so that it has internal storage.
Thank you very much for making this video! You are great man! I have a 1995 Model M by lexmark, numlock/SL/CL LEDs were not lighting up, and I modded it to jump the membrane connector to the LED little board with real cables, and now it works 100%, very pleased. Looking to acquire a space saver to save space on the desk, since I'm also a fan of the TKL layout.
I've only ever had first hand experience with the MX Blue switches, and while they are both clicky/tactile feedback they definitely have a different feel to them than the buckling spring switches found on a Model M. More information can be found here: www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-mx-mechanical-switches/ I prefer buckling spring switches, however I won't say one is better than the other.
I remember I used to use DIN to PS/2 adapter cable for my old PC and it worked. Also I remember we had IBM model M for our family computer when I was small, shame we gave it away...
no not exactly i am typing this with a unicomp and the case is thinner and the caps are way more cheap feeling but the switches are about the same "about"
Thanks for the vid! Now I really want a Model M! Pretty much the only thing that it doesn't have compared to my current keyboard is the Windows key and extra audio and music controls on top of the keyboard.
I grabbed one of these at goodwill for pretty much free (10 cents) only problem is it has an RJ45 connection, is it possible to use on windows 7 If I buy a RJ45 to usb adapter?
I've got the same Keyboard, the Part Number is the same but it does not have a fru number and the id number is different. Mine is also OLDER it's dated 9-21-90. I got it at a flea market for 5 bucks it was in a box full of a bunch more of the same keyboards. I also have the same exact PS/2 to USB Adapter because it did not fully work with my Asus Motherboard in the PS/2 port I could not get into set up of my BIOS but once my operating systems loaded the keyboard worked, strange. I think some of the plastic rivets broke off in mine because I hear something rattling inside it but it still works and all the keys still click. It has fallen off my keyboard tray a few times and made a loud thump / bang sound like a brick falling.
There is no "converting" between AT and PS/2. They are the same protocol. Adapters are cheap and work great since the connectors are electrically identical. Not sure what you're on about with it being a hassle.
Your link for replacement cables no longer work. I ended up paying $9 a peice for some vintage ones :-/ The cheapest I could find, as everything after that skyrocketed in price upward. The passive PS/2 to USb converters I bought did not work, so I'll be looking for a cheaper active converter than that Sanoxy...
how are the older m13s? I found an one lying around my attached garage i never knew we had. unlike the one in the video mine was made late 94 and in the USA. I ask because the one i found is pretty whooped and i want to know if its worth repairing.
winfr34k I've seen some pretty good reviews of them on GeekHack and in general all around the net, most people do say they feel a bit cheap when compared to the original Model M however that is to be expected really, they changed their plastic formula a couple of years back. Some people also say they got rid of the steel backplate, thus making the keyboard lighter, however, some also say that this is false and that the reason the keyboard is lighter is because the metal used on the backplate is a lower quality steel... Personally I wouldn't be willing to take one apart, I actually emailed Unicomp Support about this (I am considering to buy an Ultra Classic White USB one pretty soon) and they have not replied yet, I've seen someone say they favor old-fashioned communication (Letters and phone calls) over emails... May just give them a call tomorrow.
Do you know where i can buy an extra key? I dont have the F5 key, i have the thing that sticks in i just dont have the cap. And also, if i buy a PS/2 to USB adapter will it work on windows 7?
+Barrel Roll Try Unicomp who are the orignal kbd manufacturing plant (AFAIK), and sell full New Model M type keyboards & key and keycap spares (I can't verify they work on the old Model Ms but hey!) www .pckeyboard. com
I still use a Model M (1391401 18OCT98) today at my desk at work. Ive owned this keyboard for about 25 years now. I used to work selling used computers back in the 90's when you could not give these away along with the IBM PS/2 computers they came with.. I remember sending hundreds to the recycling center. With Y2K a year or two away any system that was a few years old and not considered "Y2K OK" was junked. After Y2K no one wanted to buy used systems since most just got new ones so everything we had in the warehouse was sent to the recycling center. With how much they sell on Ebay now I wish I had saved a few hundred of them..
I have a space saver keyboard, sits in a pull out keyboard drawer, with a trackball on the side. It's handy because if you're a lefty, you can simply move the trackball over to the left of the keyboard. As long as you don't use the dedicated number keys section a lot. Oh yeah, I got it for $10 at a flea market!
i love the 122 Terminal Keyboard. a Teensy2.0 and some soldering you can make a Soarer Converter for Terminal Model M. You can do a lot of things with all the extra Keys. typing one one actually right now.
I used to have a model m2, it died after my dog got ahold of it somehow.... but I just purchased one of those unicomp model m 122 clones from 2003! it looks pretty good in the pictures, Im looking forward to trying it out!
What about Unicomp Model-M keyboards? They are the current manufacturer and still make them as far as I know. They cost around 90 bucks and they make versions with a USB connector. Are these just cheaper versions like the Lexmark ones or just as good as the real deal?
They use buckling spring keys but they are cheaper than the PS/2 era model Ms in almost every way. They use cheap plastic, there's no steel plate, the cable is hard wired, the key caps in some cases are non removable and they have been known to be unreliable. But they do have the Windows key, and you can order them with the Macintosh layout.
I actually had one of these in the 90s when I was 8 years old or so, it was my dad's, we had it on our 486. Then we sold the whole thing for next to nothing around 2000, and got a new PC with a rubber dome keyboard, which was just entering the market and everyone thought they were so cool and modern, b/c they were silent, keys could be super shallow, they were thinner, and had more modern-looking designs, had extra keys, etc. And we used to say remember those old clicky heavy keyboards how silly were they, like old typewriters. Times sure do change. My Model M was in a really good shape too. I never thought I'd actually dream of having one 2 decades later and it didn't even cross my mind it could be worth like $150. I think we sold the whole computer for less. Rubber dome is now considered cheap garbage, and I love my Steelseries 6GV2 mechanical keyboard, but I think the Model M is just the best keyboard ever made, so I am saving for a "new" one.
I got lucky and bought one of my model M keyboards new in the box from a thrift store for $5. It's a model with a PS/2 connector and was made in Scotland.
I am blind and I’m thinking about purchasing this keyboard and I really need a typed out description of the keys. i’m most interested in to know. Is there a backslash key and if so, where is it located? Am I thinking about the keyboard correctly, is the enter key on the main keyboard a backwards L shape? Finally, could you please describe the keys that are around the enter key? Thank you very much for your help.
Got the terminal one for free... did a small conversion with a teensy 2.0 and works great... also a lot more keys for macros... and you get use to the 4 arrow keys with the extra rule key really quickly
Lexmark really was just IBM's accessory division. It was all the same people and same factories (or factory) that always made Model M's. No doubt they did change some stuff over the years, as all companies do. But just thought it was worth clarifying that if you get a Lexmark-made Model M, it's no less a real Model M than one "made by IBM". Only the sticker on the back is different. I actually bought a 1996 Lexmark-made Model M new about 16 years ago, and it still looks and works like the day I bought it. They're still pretty indestructible. I haven't needed to do any mods.
Look up a Soarer's converter. It converts from rj45 to USB and lets you reprogram any of the keys on the keyboard at the hardware level, no software needed.
I have a IBM (By Lexmark, Mfg USA) M2 series Keyboard with PS/2, but the PS/2 only has 4-pins verse 6! It does not appear that two pins are broke or missing. Are you aware of a 4 verse 6 pin PS/2? It only types to my computer some of the letters/ etc; not all. Help! Also, it says "EduQuest" "An IBM Company" label on the front top left side. It has only 1 spring on the space bar. Comments? I've never seen one of these "EduQuest" Keyboards before. I want to sell it on Ebay.
There are only four signals lines required. 1) Ground, 2) +5VDC, 3) Clock, and 4) Data. The other two pins are spare and sometimes they may get used when combining a keyboard and a mouse on one PS/2 Connector. Thus the Keyboard Clock and Data lines will be separate from the Mouse Clock and data lines. The model M13 is a bit like this in that off the internal control board and in the cable are the six signals, but on that model they break off into two PS/2 connectors, one for the keyboard and one for the internal track point (mouse). Thus, even on that keyboard the two PS/2 connectors at the computer side only use four pins. I have modified my M13 to use the same AMP plug-in connector as used on the normal model M on the keyboard rear. Except mine uses all six pins on the AMP connector (vs only 4 on the Model M) and then use an IBM (P/N 1398094) cable that terminates into the two PS/2 Connectors for keyboard and mouse. If I want to I could also buy one of those cheap 'active' PS/2 keyboard/mouse combiners to USB for modern computers which also works perfectly well! Bottom line, no worries a normal keyboard (or mouse) PS/2 connection only uses four or the six pins and will most often have the extra two pins removed.
Just bought a 92' Model M for about $80. It's the PS/2 adapter version and it looks perfect. Cannot wait to clean it up and I am thinking about doing the bolt mod only if I have to. Also, has anyone ever heard that the PS/2 plugs in the Model M are a bit overpowered when plugged into modern motherboards (like they could short the motherboard)? I heard that from another video on them beforehand, and it kind of makes sense since you need an active adapter to plug it into a USB port (and work). Can anyone shed some light on this before I fry my motherboard next week?
My IBM model m had a steel case and weighed a ton. But a friend with a nerve condition begged it from me as she kept breaking keyboards. I am using a dell at102w instead which is great.
+samzx81 im canadian (uses metric system) but the metric system is just confusing to me. the imperial system (america burma and liberia) makes sense to me
@Mark B Ah yes, orange man bad. Actually if you were not so ignorant, you would know that the US did not invent the imperial system, and is not the only country to use it. Canada also uses it along with a few other countries. Which ever system you use doesn't determine your intelligence or political affiliation as you mentioned. Maybe some people like having an intermediate measurement between centimeters and meters since there is a massive jump, hence, making inches useful. Maybe it doesn't fucking matter which measurement system you use. And before you call me too stupid to use the metric system, I use both systems depending on what I am measuring. For example, I use Celsius for measuring temps of electronics, and Fahrenheit for measuring the temp of the current day. Americans use millimeters, centimeters, alongside with inches and feet. We use grams as well.
AT keyboards are completely compatible with PS2. I used to cut the AT end off and splice the wires into a PS2 connector. Although I would recommend just buying an adapter. A teenager will do something like this to save the $3 on an adapter. I suspect that this would be true with the RJ45 wires as well, but I haven't ever actually tried it on one of those.
rogueamp uploaded this 3 days ago. 3 days ago was when my own model m review video had view spikes. Coincidence? In all honesty if these views were caused by you uploading this video then I'd like to say a huge thanks!
Hey, loved the video. IBM Model M 1391401 user here. Anyway, couple questions: First, what do you think is the best place to look for replacement keycaps for the model M? What about custom ones that are more colorful/showy? Also, what is the purpose of the speaker grille? Lastly, apart from being able to hotswap, what are the advantages of converting to USB vs. just using PS/2, which is working just fine for me so far?
Unicomp sells printed/unprinted/multi-color Model M keys. The speaker grille was used (I'm assuming) to play a boot-up noise when the machine started. PCs later came with their own speaker so it made the one on the keyboard pointless. There really isn't an advantage/disadvantage in converting from PS/2 to USB, unless you actually think NKRO matters (which it doesn't).
You are referring to the Model F which was the predecessor to the Model M. Many hail the Model F as the true mother of all keyboards. Even though the Model F had superior build quality, the Model M is the model that set the keyboard layout standard.
It's not very difficult to convert the terminal (RJ 45 connector) model M keyboards to be usable with modern computers. You can google "Soarer's Converter" which allows you to convert that terminal connector to USB. Or you can even make your own with a cheap logic board from China + some soldering equipment. Great option if you really want a Model M but don't want to pay over 100USD.
Great video with some great information! I've recently rediscovered mechanical keyboards, and have already bought a couple. I might get a Model M just as a backup, though... Although I'll probably go with Unicomp, just to have something a bit newer (including USB out of the box and a Win key). How do you feel about Unicomp? They are supposedly the exact same quality as Model M, and they even offer some of those trackball models. I myself will probably just get a standard setup. (At the moment, I'm using the Happy Hacker Pro 2 on my iMac).
I have a very VERY early model M UK keyboard that's been in my life for over 25 years! it still works perfectly and I use it to write. it's got a 5 pin DIN connector, but with a 5-pin to PS2 connector it works perfectly with my ASrock motherboard. So I would disagree to steer clear of the 5-pin keyboards. It's also got an extra key between the Z and left shift key that was easily remapped to be a windows key - It was originally a UK keyboard but the beauty of these are that you just buy individual keycaps to change your locale.
Hi rogueamp2, great video! Just wanted to let you know black M13s do exist that were made in the US by Lexmark. The part no is 13H6705 and mfg date is 20-dec-94.
hey dude whats your opinion of the Unicomp model Ms that are made new? inferior? slightly inferior or on par? they're about $80 so I want to know how they compare.
MrMassivemeatlog as of typing this right now theres a deal on massdrop for one of them. ima wait and see if the price goes below 60$, otherwise i'll just find a real model M
I'm trying to find one of these keyboards to buy recently. Used to use them for data entry at a warehouse I worked at, best keyboard I ever used, I prefer it over the Corsair k70. If only I could find a M 1391401 for less than $160
If you're going to say "we'll talk a little bit about that later..." this often, could you add annotations pointing to the point in the video where you actually talk about it later?
if anyone ends up getting a model M because of this video, I highly recommend actually purchasing the nut driver as well. previous owners don't always clean them and they can become pretty dirty from regular use.
No offence, but I hate noisy keyboards.
Clark Clements
enjoy your INFERIOR TYPING EXPERIENCE
danooct1 Clark Clements *presses key* CLICK
dan m8
How is it inferior? It is just loud and annoying. I want to hear the game that I am playing, not the sound of me pushing keys on a keyboard.
*removes key cap with Mosin Nagant bayonet*
Id just like to tell everyone that the AT connector (5 pin din) used in the IBM model F and M boards are still totally usable on today's computers, not "just for parts" like the guy said. A simple adapter is all thats needed to convert AT to PS/2
No, an adapter doesn't work, an active converter is needed. They are using completely different scan code sets. So, an adapter never works for that.
@@ibrahimaysu8247 I think he was talking about adapting it to PS/2. Converting PS/2 to USB requires still a converter.
It goes like that: [AT Connector > PS/2] = Adapter | [PS/2 > USB] = Converter.
Also converting one with a terminal plug or an older xt plug (without leds) to usb is also possible, it just requires a special converter.
@@ibrahimaysu8247this is an old post AT and PS/2 are the same protocol. You only need an adapter
I got one for a dollar recently at a indoor yard sale.
The one shown at 12:49 is not a terminal keyboard; it is an XT keyboard. The IBM PC-XT did not have BIOS support for keyboard lock lights, so that's why the keyboard doesn't include them. But like most Model Ms, it is XT/AT autoswitching, so with a 5-pin to PS/2 adapter, or a replacement PS/2 cable, it will work fine with any modern computer, if you don't mind the lack of the lock lights.
It was actually a terminal keyboard, as it had field keys that were present on the other terminal keyboard, but are not on the XT keyboard, as well as 24 function keys
The RJ45 connector ones I think can be used on modern computers using a Soarers converter (costs around £40)
I'm using a Model M 122 key terminal Keyboard with Windows. You just have to solder four wires to a teensy board and load soarers firmware. I have more keys than I know what to do with.
i use the model f variant its loud capacitive full nkro and delightfull
Look at that SLICK BLACK keyboard. Looks like the PS Triple. BALLIN'.
There are now adapters that let you use the terminal model Ms with normal PCs (Look up soarer's converter), so there isn't inherently as much of a reason to stray away from one now if you can still find one cheap.
Actually, you can use Terminal Model Ms on modern computers, I'm typing on one right now. You need what's called a Soarer's converter.
I own a 1390120 model M. It doesn't bother me that it lacks the lock lights, it is the smoothest and best performing keyboard I've ever used outside of a beam spring. I'm planning to get it overhauled in the coming weeks with bolt mods and just getting the entire thing freshened up.
Don't be afraid of the AT connectors. One can either swap the cable for a PS2 (identical SDK connector on the keyboard itself), or adapt the AT connector (available at Amazon). It's the same keyboard. Although he mentioned something about the lights not locking, that's not been my experience. I did a lot of swapping cables, though; since I used old, old tech through the 90s. It's possible that I had a PS2 kb with an AT cable on it. In any case, the swap isn't like the PS2-USB adaptor. It's just wired through, and the signals it carries are the same either way.
I just bought a 1991 Model M on eBay and I am so excited to get it.
I am typing on my second Model M keyboard. I wish to thank you for sharing your valuable information and advise about how to select one. I am a senior who is challenged by poor dexterity, but find the Model M the most comfortable keyboard for writing long articles. The model M has to be the best keyboard ever developed.....
This is a great video! Currently hunting my birthday Model M Jan 23 1990!
Can the non detachable cable ever be replaced on my 71G4644 as the flat areas insulation is brittle & coming apart. Terrific video, learned a lot by watching. Thanks,
Thanks for making this great guide, I plan on buying one of these keyboards in the near future and now I know what to look for.
My friend and I have a few older Dell keyboard with Alps switches (pretty much the closest thing to a Model M), and the keyboard has a huge space at the top where there isn't anything going on. My friend had the idea to put an active USB converter inside the keyboard, then cut a hole in the back for a female USB port. That way, the keyboard has a removable cable and it's USB. Just for laughs, we put a 32 GB flash drive inside the keyboard so that it has internal storage.
Thank you very much for making this video! You are great man! I have a 1995 Model M by lexmark, numlock/SL/CL LEDs were not lighting up, and I modded it to jump the membrane connector to the LED little board with real cables, and now it works 100%, very pleased. Looking to acquire a space saver to save space on the desk, since I'm also a fan of the TKL layout.
Thank you for going into detail on this tutorial!
How is the Model M compared to modern keyboards with Cherry MX switches?
I've only ever had first hand experience with the MX Blue switches, and while they are both clicky/tactile feedback they definitely have a different feel to them than the buckling spring switches found on a Model M. More information can be found here: www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-mx-mechanical-switches/
I prefer buckling spring switches, however I won't say one is better than the other.
rogueamp2 I did not expect a reply from the man himself. Thank you for the link! :)
Hello! Mike and rogueamp2
***** MX Cherry is superior to this. I used to love IBM keyboards but they have a very clunky feel compared to Cherry, and are much, much louder.
ke.ux That could be true except for the plasticy-cheap (because they are plastic and cheap) feeling of MX switches.
I remember I used to use DIN to PS/2 adapter cable for my old PC and it worked. Also I remember we had IBM model M for our family computer when I was small, shame we gave it away...
i have an m13, i haven't noticed much letter wear tho. I can confirm there is a difference between the maxiswitch and the original model m
Also their are M13 versions in the normal M tan coloring. Same keys as the normal M.
"This one is _sllick bllack_"
-rogueamp
Just like my hair, and the PS-Tripple.
Thanks for this. Been fishing eBay and there are bunch of version. My old one vanished years ago.
I'm surprised that you did not make any mention of the Unicomp Model Ms. What's your opinion on those keyboards?
no not exactly i am typing this with a unicomp and the case is thinner and the caps are way more cheap feeling but the switches are about the same "about"
Chazdin McCluew the backplate is also plastic so it’s not nearly as nice to type on
@@garlicbread5320 Not true. the backplate is also metal. The case material on all model M's is made of plastic.
HudsonGTV you know I’ve got no clue as to why I said that cause that doesn’t even make sense lol
I've had the model m for a few years, and its freaking awesome!
Thanks for the vid!
Now I really want a Model M!
Pretty much the only thing that it doesn't have compared to my current keyboard is the Windows key and extra audio and music controls on top of the keyboard.
Wow. Didn't even know you had another channel Rogue until I happen to look up IBM Model M usb. Subbed.
I just got one and it's magical to type on.
I was going to post a comment, but I'll talk a little more about that later.
I actually have 3 of these keyboards. 1 of which is un-opened
Chris Donham selling for cheap?
Hahahaha no I like them
Chris Donham owell XD
Dooooope
As i can conclude from your new channel picture, you are a fucking great designer!
You can also get SDL to USB cables to connect these to modern hardware.
If you consider this the best keyboard of all time, what would you say is it that makes it superior to the model F AT keyboard?
I grabbed one of these at goodwill for pretty much free (10 cents) only problem is it has an RJ45 connection, is it possible to use on windows 7 If I buy a RJ45 to usb adapter?
I have a 42H1292, made in the UK by IBM. I wonder why the wiki table only has the 42H1292U variant.
hey i just bought my self a 1395985 model by lexmark uk but i cant find it anywhere on that list.
I've got the same Keyboard, the Part Number is the same but it does not have a fru number and the id number is different.
Mine is also OLDER it's dated 9-21-90.
I got it at a flea market for 5 bucks it was in a box full of a bunch more of the same keyboards.
I also have the same exact PS/2 to USB Adapter because it did not fully work with my Asus Motherboard in the PS/2 port I could not get into set up of my BIOS but once my operating systems loaded the keyboard worked, strange.
I think some of the plastic rivets broke off in mine because I hear something rattling inside it but it still works and all the keys still click. It has fallen off my keyboard tray a few times and made a loud thump / bang sound like a brick falling.
There is no "converting" between AT and PS/2. They are the same protocol. Adapters are cheap and work great since the connectors are electrically identical. Not sure what you're on about with it being a hassle.
Great video. I considered one of these years ago and I might look into it again now.
i said we will talk about that later but we will talk about that later
Your link for replacement cables no longer work. I ended up paying $9 a peice for some vintage ones :-/ The cheapest I could find, as everything after that skyrocketed in price upward. The passive PS/2 to USb converters I bought did not work, so I'll be looking for a cheaper active converter than that Sanoxy...
Thorough and informative review,thank you.
Thank you for this! Great content, a lot of things I didn't know about the Model M!
how are the older m13s? I found an one lying around my attached garage i never knew we had. unlike the one in the video mine was made late 94 and in the USA. I ask because the one i found is pretty whooped and i want to know if its worth repairing.
What do you guys think about the Unicomp keyboards?
winfr34k I've seen some pretty good reviews of them on GeekHack and in general all around the net, most people do say they feel a bit cheap when compared to the original Model M however that is to be expected really, they changed their plastic formula a couple of years back. Some people also say they got rid of the steel backplate, thus making the keyboard lighter, however, some also say that this is false and that the reason the keyboard is lighter is because the metal used on the backplate is a lower quality steel... Personally I wouldn't be willing to take one apart, I actually emailed Unicomp Support about this (I am considering to buy an Ultra Classic White USB one pretty soon) and they have not replied yet, I've seen someone say they favor old-fashioned communication (Letters and phone calls) over emails... May just give them a call tomorrow.
I would love to try a buckling spring keyboard, but getting a WASD CODE with Greens is higher on my list right now. I'm using MX Blues right now.
Do you know where i can buy an extra key? I dont have the F5 key, i have the thing that sticks in i just dont have the cap. And also, if i buy a PS/2 to USB adapter will it work on windows 7?
+Barrel Roll Try Unicomp who are the orignal kbd manufacturing plant (AFAIK), and sell full New Model M type keyboards & key and keycap spares (I can't verify they work on the old Model Ms but hey!) www .pckeyboard. com
Thanks for making this video. Really helped me make an informed purchase. I would have bought a non ps/2 with dome switches if it wasn't for you
You can actually convert the terminal model m by either buying or making a soarers converter. I use mine every day.
I still use a Model M (1391401 18OCT98) today at my desk at work. Ive owned this keyboard for about 25 years now. I used to work selling used computers back in the 90's when you could not give these away along with the IBM PS/2 computers they came with.. I remember sending hundreds to the recycling center. With Y2K a year or two away any system that was a few years old and not considered "Y2K OK" was junked. After Y2K no one wanted to buy used systems since most just got new ones so everything we had in the warehouse was sent to the recycling center.
With how much they sell on Ebay now I wish I had saved a few hundred of them..
You did notice that the Lexmark keyboard seller did declare "non-clicky" in the listing title?
Terminal Models are absolutely usable with a Soarer's adapter. It's a bit of work, but so is everything.
I have a space saver keyboard, sits in a pull out keyboard drawer, with a trackball on the side. It's handy because if you're a lefty, you can simply move the trackball over to the left of the keyboard. As long as you don't use the dedicated number keys section a lot. Oh yeah, I got it for $10 at a flea market!
i own an IBM 1391401 92' i can't find one like it simply because my IBM has a "ADP Financial Partner" is that bad?
i love the 122 Terminal Keyboard. a Teensy2.0 and some soldering you can make a Soarer Converter for Terminal Model M. You can do a lot of things with all the extra Keys. typing one one actually right now.
hey! you never got around to how to .fix the plastic rivets
I used to have a model m2, it died after my dog got ahold of it somehow.... but I just purchased one of those unicomp model m 122 clones from 2003! it looks pretty good in the pictures, Im looking forward to trying it out!
What about Unicomp Model-M keyboards? They are the current manufacturer and still make them as far as I know. They cost around 90 bucks and they make versions with a USB connector. Are these just cheaper versions like the Lexmark ones or just as good as the real deal?
They use buckling spring keys but they are cheaper than the PS/2 era model Ms in almost every way. They use cheap plastic, there's no steel plate, the cable is hard wired, the key caps in some cases are non removable and they have been known to be unreliable. But they do have the Windows key, and you can order them with the Macintosh layout.
I actually had one of these in the 90s when I was 8 years old or so, it was my dad's, we had it on our 486. Then we sold the whole thing for next to nothing around 2000, and got a new PC with a rubber dome keyboard, which was just entering the market and everyone thought they were so cool and modern, b/c they were silent, keys could be super shallow, they were thinner, and had more modern-looking designs, had extra keys, etc. And we used to say remember those old clicky heavy keyboards how silly were they, like old typewriters. Times sure do change. My Model M was in a really good shape too. I never thought I'd actually dream of having one 2 decades later and it didn't even cross my mind it could be worth like $150. I think we sold the whole computer for less. Rubber dome is now considered cheap garbage, and I love my Steelseries 6GV2 mechanical keyboard, but I think the Model M is just the best keyboard ever made, so I am saving for a "new" one.
I got lucky and bought one of my model M keyboards new in the box from a thrift store for $5.
It's a model with a PS/2 connector and was made in Scotland.
There's this Acer 6511-va Keyboard for sale, not sure if it's mechanical so if anyone can tell me if it is, I will pick it up if so
Where can I find one in the UK? Shipping costs from 'merica are way too much.
There are plenty on eBay - they made them in Greenock, no need to get an American one!
My model M is a 94' by Lexmark. Such an excellent keyboard!
SDL to USB? Soarer's converter?
Rougeamp2, what do you think of mechanical keyboards like razor ones?
I like it......
Compared to a dell membrane, its a pretty solid keyboard.
But compared to a model m, well... nope!
they used seconds to measure bolts in the imperial system? im full of questions!
32nds of an inch
I am blind and I’m thinking about purchasing this keyboard and I really need a typed out description of the keys. i’m most interested in to know. Is there a backslash key and if so, where is it located? Am I thinking about the keyboard correctly, is the enter key on the main keyboard a backwards L shape? Finally, could you please describe the keys that are around the enter key? Thank you very much for your help.
Got the terminal one for free... did a small conversion with a teensy 2.0 and works great... also a lot more keys for macros... and you get use to the 4 arrow keys with the extra rule key really quickly
Also you can get a usb cable for the model m but there like $40 on ebay tho
6:56 yeah so you gotta get used to pressing Control-Escape to call up the start menu
10:33 I think ***** said something about AIX/UNIX
Lexmark really was just IBM's accessory division. It was all the same people and same factories (or factory) that always made Model M's. No doubt they did change some stuff over the years, as all companies do. But just thought it was worth clarifying that if you get a Lexmark-made Model M, it's no less a real Model M than one "made by IBM". Only the sticker on the back is different. I actually bought a 1996 Lexmark-made Model M new about 16 years ago, and it still looks and works like the day I bought it. They're still pretty indestructible. I haven't needed to do any mods.
Are there any converters for a rj45 cable such as a ps2 or USB for the IBM Model M?
Check ebay. There are ready made cable converters using ATMega32u4 boards for around $40 US...or you can roll your own.
Look up a Soarer's converter. It converts from rj45 to USB and lets you reprogram any of the keys on the keyboard at the hardware level, no software needed.
For some reason to use Metric System? It's superior. (drum roll for the flame wars)
no flame wars, or even any replies for 2 years lol
lol rekt
Make a IBM PC buyer's guide I'd to to see whats the differnce between them.
The buckling spring is very similar to MX Blue switches, but the model m squashes the MX Blues...
Why didn't you mention the Industrials?
I would want a model m and a gateway anykey keyboard for my computers
I have a IBM (By Lexmark, Mfg USA) M2 series Keyboard with PS/2, but the PS/2 only has 4-pins verse 6! It does not appear that two pins are broke or missing. Are you aware of a 4 verse 6 pin PS/2? It only types to my computer some of the letters/ etc; not all. Help! Also, it says "EduQuest" "An IBM Company" label on the front top left side. It has only 1 spring on the space bar. Comments? I've never seen one of these "EduQuest" Keyboards before. I want to sell it on Ebay.
There are only four signals lines required. 1) Ground, 2) +5VDC, 3) Clock, and 4) Data. The other two pins are spare and sometimes they may get used when combining a keyboard and a mouse on one PS/2 Connector. Thus the Keyboard Clock and Data lines will be separate from the Mouse Clock and data lines. The model M13 is a bit like this in that off the internal control board and in the cable are the six signals, but on that model they break off into two PS/2 connectors, one for the keyboard and one for the internal track point (mouse). Thus, even on that keyboard the two PS/2 connectors at the computer side only use four pins. I have modified my M13 to use the same AMP plug-in connector as used on the normal model M on the keyboard rear. Except mine uses all six pins on the AMP connector (vs only 4 on the Model M) and then use an IBM (P/N 1398094) cable that terminates into the two PS/2 Connectors for keyboard and mouse. If I want to I could also buy one of those cheap 'active' PS/2 keyboard/mouse combiners to USB for modern computers which also works perfectly well!
Bottom line, no worries a normal keyboard (or mouse) PS/2 connection only uses four or the six pins and will most often have the extra two pins removed.
Just bought a 92' Model M for about $80. It's the PS/2 adapter version and it looks perfect. Cannot wait to clean it up and I am thinking about doing the bolt mod only if I have to. Also, has anyone ever heard that the PS/2 plugs in the Model M are a bit overpowered when plugged into modern motherboards (like they could short the motherboard)? I heard that from another video on them beforehand, and it kind of makes sense since you need an active adapter to plug it into a USB port (and work). Can anyone shed some light on this before I fry my motherboard next week?
My IBM model m had a steel case and weighed a ton. But a friend with a nerve condition begged it from me as she kept breaking keyboards. I am using a dell at102w instead which is great.
The metric system is superior. Pretty much every one else in the world uses it.
+samzx81 im canadian (uses metric system) but the metric system is just confusing to me. the imperial system (america burma and liberia) makes sense to me
@@tryzmsotryll lol WHAT???????
@Mark B Ah yes, orange man bad. Actually if you were not so ignorant, you would know that the US did not invent the imperial system, and is not the only country to use it. Canada also uses it along with a few other countries. Which ever system you use doesn't determine your intelligence or political affiliation as you mentioned. Maybe some people like having an intermediate measurement between centimeters and meters since there is a massive jump, hence, making inches useful. Maybe it doesn't fucking matter which measurement system you use.
And before you call me too stupid to use the metric system, I use both systems depending on what I am measuring. For example, I use Celsius for measuring temps of electronics, and Fahrenheit for measuring the temp of the current day. Americans use millimeters, centimeters, alongside with inches and feet. We use grams as well.
wrong imperial is way better than metric
@@animegamingdude not for doing calculations.
AT keyboards are completely compatible with PS2. I used to cut the AT end off and splice the wires into a PS2 connector. Although I would recommend just buying an adapter. A teenager will do something like this to save the $3 on an adapter. I suspect that this would be true with the RJ45 wires as well, but I haven't ever actually tried it on one of those.
rogueamp uploaded this 3 days ago. 3 days ago was when my own model m review video had view spikes. Coincidence?
In all honesty if these views were caused by you uploading this video then I'd like to say a huge thanks!
Hey, loved the video. IBM Model M 1391401 user here. Anyway, couple questions: First, what do you think is the best place to look for replacement keycaps for the model M? What about custom ones that are more colorful/showy? Also, what is the purpose of the speaker grille? Lastly, apart from being able to hotswap, what are the advantages of converting to USB vs. just using PS/2, which is working just fine for me so far?
Unicomp sells printed/unprinted/multi-color Model M keys. The speaker grille was used (I'm assuming) to play a boot-up noise when the machine started. PCs later came with their own speaker so it made the one on the keyboard pointless. There really isn't an advantage/disadvantage in converting from PS/2 to USB, unless you actually think NKRO matters (which it doesn't).
Are there any timestamps?
nice, using a mosin bayonet to remove keycap from premises very good job and good review.
I got the 1391401 made 22, March 1988. I love it.
Do you still have that keyboard
the only mechanical keyboard that i have is a dell at101w with alps skcm black tactile switches, i haven't ever typed on a model m.
What were the ibm keyboards with the steel chassis?
You are referring to the Model F which was the predecessor to the Model M. Many hail the Model F as the true mother of all keyboards. Even though the Model F had superior build quality, the Model M is the model that set the keyboard layout standard.
Need a Model F buyer's guide too
It's not very difficult to convert the terminal (RJ 45 connector) model M keyboards to be usable with modern computers. You can google "Soarer's Converter" which allows you to convert that terminal connector to USB. Or you can even make your own with a cheap logic board from China + some soldering equipment. Great option if you really want a Model M but don't want to pay over 100USD.
Great video with some great information! I've recently rediscovered mechanical keyboards, and have already bought a couple. I might get a Model M just as a backup, though... Although I'll probably go with Unicomp, just to have something a bit newer (including USB out of the box and a Win key).
How do you feel about Unicomp? They are supposedly the exact same quality as Model M, and they even offer some of those trackball models. I myself will probably just get a standard setup. (At the moment, I'm using the Happy Hacker Pro 2 on my iMac).
I have a very VERY early model M UK keyboard that's been in my life for over 25 years! it still works perfectly and I use it to write. it's got a 5 pin DIN connector, but with a 5-pin to PS2 connector it works perfectly with my ASrock motherboard. So I would disagree to steer clear of the 5-pin keyboards. It's also got an extra key between the Z and left shift key that was easily remapped to be a windows key - It was originally a UK keyboard but the beauty of these are that you just buy individual keycaps to change your locale.
Hi rogueamp2, great video! Just wanted to let you know black M13s do exist that were made in the US by Lexmark. The part no is 13H6705 and mfg date is 20-dec-94.
Why it's so hard to find any information about the 1390141( 1986 ) i wonder if it's even model M :( it's with Ö Ä Å keys
hey dude whats your opinion of the Unicomp model Ms that are made new?
inferior? slightly inferior or on par?
they're about $80 so I want to know how they compare.
MrMassivemeatlog as of typing this right now theres a deal on massdrop for one of them. ima wait and see if the price goes below 60$, otherwise i'll just find a real model M
TerrahBite I went full yolo and bought 3 legit Model Ms.......
got a mexican one from 1990, and 2 lexmarks.
MrMassivemeatlog GG
TerrahBite
why pay $100 for one ekyboard when you can spend $300 and get 3!
MrMassivemeatlog why make your own keybaord when you can pay 300$ for the worst of a classic. :kappa:
I'm trying to find one of these keyboards to buy recently. Used to use them for data entry at a warehouse I worked at, best keyboard I ever used, I prefer it over the Corsair k70. If only I could find a M 1391401 for less than $160
If you're going to say "we'll talk a little bit about that later..." this often, could you add annotations pointing to the point in the video where you actually talk about it later?