Are We Hypocrites For Abandoning Ottawa?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Recently we made a video challenging the idea that North America is “doomed” and everyone who cares about urbanism needs to get out now and move to one of the European capitals of urban design. The video resonated pretty well but there was one response that really stood out: “wait a second, didn’t you guys abandon Ottawa for Montreal?”. Some people called us hypocrites for apparently jumping ship on a city when we told other people that they need to stay and fight. This was really surprising!
Keep Urbanity rolling:
Join our Patreon for early releases: / ohtheurbanity
Subscribe: / @ohtheurbanity
Join us on Twitter: / ohurbanity
As an Ottawa resident, I know many people who have been introduced to new ideas through your videos. Your channel has had an important impact on many Ottawa residents (such as myself)! I'm seeing Toronto and MTL move in the right direction, and I hope we'll evolve in the same direction through some type of regional osmosis process lol. Thanks!
when you say many, yu mean 5, 10, 100, 1000 ?
Toronto - You're funny.
I wish Vancouver kept up with these cities
I live in Ottawa and imo, we are doing many things right.
@@stephenjohnson2236 I'm from Ottawa and love to laugh at the O-Train. Montreal just got a new train system and because it was watched closely by the CDPQ, we didn't have any bullshit with careerist politicians unloading a dysfunctional transit service on to the general population. Also, I would advocate filling in the city a bit. It lacks the kind of density that makes Montreal awesome - a definite impediment on quality of life, not to mention the fact that people are antisocial and don't seem to be go outside much, except in like 2 neighbourhoods.
I left Ottawa in 2006 as it seems 100% hopeless and stuck in the 20th century. I don't see much happening to improve, though what I am advocating is radically undemocratic. No one is going to Expropriate Ottawa in the way that would make it better. It's like peak NIMBY over there.
Y’all have become the most reasonable voices in the urbanism movement. You’re greatly appreciated!
Amen
We all need more relaxcents in our lives
Agreed!
As an urban planner I mainly watch those to be amazed by their delusions and just how far they're separated from humanity and.... you're completely right.
I first checked out this channel thinking they were the umpteenth "Ban cars, enforce public transport at gunpoint aint nobody need work or a garden or happyness, we live best as corporate simps in tiny overpriced appartments in the big city" (Not Just Bikes, or Adam Something on a bad day, basically) and to date I've not run across any of that.
They seem pretty balanced in realising people have different lifestyles and different (transportation) needs AND that the inertia of the built environment is huge.
Heck, they're probably aware that most jobs are in cities not because cities are nice, but because cities have been carefully protected to be the places where most jobs are allowed to be, since roughly the 11th century (when stuff like weaving or landing a boat to sell fish could legally only be done in a place that had city rights).
@@nvelsen1975Lol. Never heard NJB or Adam said anything of that sort. Anyways, most job are in cities are because cities provide ease of trade and interaction.
@@Redzwan NJB still sucks, and his fanboys are even worse. Too angry and hateful.
Living in a city is so much more than appreciating the built environment (although it is important), factors around health, safety, community and finances have a major impact on why you'd move somewhere else. I'm a planner for the City of Ottawa in the Long Range Planning division and we constantly discuss your videos and the points that you raise. I hope you know that there are many of us who are trying our hardest to implement ideals around sustainable mobility, health resilience and housing affordability for Ottawa. I still have plenty of hope. Cities are constantly evolving, though at a much slower pace than we'd like.
The cities we plan for today are the cities that will be built in 2040-2050. The cities we live in today are the ones that were planned for in 1990-2000.
City planners are a joke, you guys don't even know how cities started. You guys need economic development and that only occurs in developing markets. Say good bye to the west!!
Great message again! Rational, kind, and optimistic - that's very rare these days!
Oh my god, they're so normal and nice! Why can't the rest of the urbanist tubers just be nice people!
Urbanists are fascists. Not just bikes is 100% a political pawn selling fear. Telling Americans they are all stupid and need to move is bat shit crazy
@@TohaBgood2 because NJB and his equally bitter angry hateful fanboys are too aggressive at trying to dominate the conversation. Also, being angry and hateful is the norm on the internet today.
@@crowmob-yo6ry Sad but true!
Im glad that the urbanist conversation on UA-cam has become so active, but there are a fair amount of people who consume too much online content instead of actually being in tune with the cities they're discussing
Yep, and unlike our community, those NIMBYs are still the only ones showing up to city council meetings and getting their way!
You guys sell fear and make money off of it. You guys will never change anything. Even if we get 15 minute cities, that means we will have to enslave the people who don't. Putting restrictions on cars and roads will lead to the centralization of power. The corporations will have more control because small business will suffer. This happened to Hong Kong and Taiwan recently!
Like usual: balanced, sensible and logical advice. Keep up the great work!
I've always associated your channel more with Montreal, because that's where you lived when I first started watching your videos a couple of years ago, and the parasocial feeling I get is that it's the city y'all love the most. Can't believe anybody was picking on you for leaving Ottawa!
Ottawa abandoned itself. You can either sink with it and spend the rest of your life in sweatpants sipping on chamomile or get your sad North American Netflix-watching @$$ to the shimmering disco that lives and breathes just two hours east.
NJB and his fanboys love to bully and harass anyone who dares to speak the truth that the "love it or leave it" mentality never helps any city/country.
That’s silly. You’re not individually responsible for Ottawas choices. Plus you make videos that reach and educate thousands of people….
You guys are easily my favorite urbanist channel. Thanks for the optimistic and reasonable takes!
As someone who's still holding it down in Ottawa, I respect the move. I see what's going on in Montreal, and hope to see that happen here in Ottawa. It'll be a tougher hill to climb here though I fear. When the province amalgamated the city of Ottawa, it was basically a form of gerrymandering. Saddling us with enough selfish suburbanite voters, that it's very difficult to ever get things like an improved bike network as a priority.
Never be jealous of another city Montreal has its own issues just like any other city. Just make the most of where you are and if it doesnt offer you what you are looking for go elsewhere. End of the day always pros and cons and it depends what you value, friends, job market etc.
@@map13syrupFeels like Ottawa is going backwards at this point.....
I work in both cities and people from Montreal say the same thing i.e. the traffic, the crime/shootings, construction. I feel like people just like to complain and be negative instead of looking at whats great about where they live. Its a privilege to live in any Canadian city. Of course depending on your career, interests, hobbies, personality, where you live can have an impact on your happiness. But also realize Ottawa its a very different lifestyle living downtown than Kanata and neither is better it depends on your preferences, commute, etc. Heck some people find Ottawa too big and busy and prefer living in Alexandria.
@@map13syrup I mean, I love Ottawa, and don't intend to leave at any point. There's definitely tradeoffs to the lifestyles. I guess here I was specifically talking about was what Montreal's been able to do with Bike lanes there. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to do something like that in Ottawa except for opposition from all the suburbs we are anchored to
@@map13syrupMontreal is the best city to live , #1 in the world for sustainability, strong sense of community , a walkable city with the best public transport .... you already burnt down the Canadian parliament in Montreal., the capital .... you will never evolve ... you are so conservative and racist
I'd definitely like to see more small-city urbanism in North America explored positively like this. Places like Kelowna, Timmins, Thunder Bay, or Winnipeg. Places you wouldn't think of as new urbanism utopias.
Winnipeg is so much bigger than those other cities, the fact that you've lumped us in with them almost speaks for itself. Right now Winnipeg and (most of) Quebec City are the kings of car-dependency in Canada in terms of decently-sized cities. But at least Quebec City has a tramway in the works.
(Unlike Oh The Urbanity, I freely admit that I *am* a hypocritical traitor because I absolutely did abandon Winnipeg for Montreal 😅)
Size never really mattered until big box stores showed up, the smallest towns were just as walkable, and even more walkable than the big cities. Strong Towns discusses this when talking about Brainerd MN
As a Winnipegger I congratulate you!@@YoungThos
Kelowna is generally pretty bad but there's areas with good progress
Kelowna is kind of a shithole tho... I mean their trying sure.
If your last video focussed on bashing Ottawa and hyping up Montreal then It’s fair to say you abandoned Ottawa. Instead, you two offer constructive ideas on how North American cities can improve their urbanity. Keep up the great work!
Progress is an opinion
Good urbanism in the US tends to be either too expensive (SF, Seattle, NYC), or in cities with a lot fewer opportunities (Baltimore, Philly, Pittsburg).
Chicago and Philadelphia have plenty of opportunities. Hard for me to name a major company that doesn't have a Chicago office.
And there are world-class universities in all the cities you mention, which tends to correlate with fantastic job markets...
Pittsburgh also has plenty of opportunities, including two major research universities
There are a lot of pockets of great urbanism with good job and educational opportunities in the US outside of the biggest most expensive cities. I am extremely car light just outside of Hartford CT and there's tons of jobs here in engineering, manufacturing, education, healthcare, insurance, etc.
Also pretty insane to say Philly and Pittsburgh don't have opportunities.
As mentioned in the video, Minneapolis - St. Paul is pretty good too. Reasonable housing costs, lots of opportunities, excellent bike infrastructure, and improving transit (limited by a lack of drivers, mostly).
The problem with Pittsburgh isn’t opportunities (there’s a ton) - it’s the segregation. Not a problem specific to Pittsburgh, most northern cities that “vote blue” have pretty bad and severely overlooked segregation problems
Toronto here. I appreciate your videos and can relate to them. I have biked 30 states 8 provinces and 10 counties. No place is perfect but some are more perfect than others.
Thank you for this video and the last one.
Our family has been tireless fighters in our rural community for a long time but are looking to move soon for a place with better health care for our kid & a better career opportunity too. For us It's been hard to explain and let others know that it isn't giving up. This video really helped.
So glad you know your subject & audience so well.
Does it help though? Serious question.
I feel like most small towns (with a handful of exceptions) are a lost cause. All I see when I travel to them, is pickups getting bigger every year, more drive throughs and more chain restaurants. Pedestrianizing even a core area seems like an alien idea to many. Honestly, with places like this I don't think people will get it until their young leave.
So what's your goal in your rural community and how do you educate the community towards it?
@@416to613 We see that same trend in cities too. To be fair a more sizeable share of the rural population might more legitimately could justify their pickup use.
We have a larger elderly population and the benefits are important not a lost cause. We have worked to promote biking, e-bikes, and improving pathways to important businesses in the smaller towns. You would be surprised about the people you can get involved. We got land donated to the city for a downtown project.
In the larger hub "city", we haven't won a lot but we have gotten to sit on the parks & rec committee. We have some walking(maybe bike too) trails getting put in to connect to the town parks. Getting street dept to add sidewalks going to public schools.
A large goal is the city took federal money for a bypass around town. So the city will do a traffic study afterwards & host public forum on reducing the 4-lane highway that is main street. Its a long shot but still an opportunity.
We are seeing more people take up a bike instead of a second car. There are groups that can't afford a car so are e-biking. I helped a DUI suspended license driver change from a pickup for his tree trimming business to bike & utility cart. The city helped me there to with providing in-town drop-off spot instead of him driving to the dump out in the country. It was for his & everyone else in the community's benefit.
We had family that was aging and need help winding down the farm and our own a kid with health problems. It was our only support net. For a long time moving wasn't an option we could afford or manage.
For sure it isn't a massive shift but it helps.
@@416to613 As for how, I'm the county chair of our local political party(they organize voter precinct then up). So we host meetings every month around the county. Its a topic we bring up. I try to pass a long stuff from strong towns.
I'm a big advocate for maximizing federal programs in communities. Lots of programs from USDA, Aging Americans Act, public health initiatives, and other non-profits. So we find speakers & guest from agencies & orgs.
That gets us to attend local town/city meetings, invites to other board meetings, and after that just good old networking.
You can't win a lot but you can build bridges and inform the public & hopefully decision makers.
Halifax shout out! We would have been glad to have you! 😊 Honestly we fell in love with Montréal ever since visiting there a decade ago next year. We've gone nearly every year since. Hubby's more than decade long job (pension) and needing to be more bilingual are the primary barriers. And we bought a home here in late 2021... honestly I would be fine with a $200K one room condo in Lasalle/Angrignon area... but that looks like a retirement dream now. Time will tell. The English phone tech support remote job I saw now is night shift only... and my job is getting more challenging soon, he's going on strike soon... ish... so much to think about.
I am happy y'all have found a place where you can thrive 😊 As someone that has moved 7 times because of better opportunities and migrated to a different country as well, feeling guilt for moving is such a foreign concept. Pardon the pun :) We all have "seasons" of life and making sure our physical environment matches that season is important. Kudos to you for making such informative videos about urbanism and city living ❤
The problem in North America is, you can not rely on even the most basic sidewalk or a bus every few hours - so when you can't drive, you are confined to "islands or walkability", which may be nice and large, but they are still islands. In Europe and especially the Netherlands this problem doesn't exist; there is always at least some basic infrastructure. Not just in every town or city, but in every tiny village.
I visited Ottawa this weekend and it hurts how bad the urbanism is. It’s improving, but it still has a long long way to go. The O-train in particular was a massive disappointment.
Halifax has come leaps and bounds in the last ten years! Our transit needs a huge overhaul but we’re finally trying new things and implementing better transit and bicycle infrastructure. We need more pedestrianized streets in Halifax and Dartmouth though.
Halifax and Dartmouth have insane potential. I hope they build on what they have and don't become another London, Ontario (city of so much squandered potential).
@@416to613 absolutely. I’m a Dartmouth diehard myself. My partner and I really lucked out but we’re in downtown Dartmouth which is very walkable and has great AT trails for biking. I see even more potential for this area in the years to come!
I dont think anyone is a hypocrite or a coward for trying to find a style of life that suits them not every person is the same
Indeed. Which is why they shouldn't have called out a comment from somebody else saying people who want better urbanism should move.
You're obviously a butthurt NJB fanboy.
Trains, trains, trains. I approve of your prescribed solution. :)
Love this content. I am fascinated with how you move from city to city and find these nice urban areas to live in. I want to know more about the process of how to find good urban places to live in.
Very reasonable. Thanks Urbanity
I think one of the messages I liked so much from your previous video that I felt was only grazed by this video should be touched on again: Your town/city is capable of change and it requires a concentration of voices to do so. While it's fine to move from place to place in order to find what it is works best for you, it's also important to try to be a voice for responsible, accessible change. In our polarized world, people seem to have a black-and-white view of the way that places operate, when in reality, they're more malleable than people might think. It's worthwhile to put in that effort.
I was born in Halifax, moved to Montreal, draged to Thunder Bay, moved to Toronto, then Kitchener, then to West Galt, part of Cambridge. We have lived there for 26 years. In all the places we've lived, we have sought out communities that are walkable, Your channel and Not Just Bikes, speak to my interest in urgan planning, and cities in general. Thank you both for your rational view of the urban scene!
Why are great urbanist places expensive? Because they are extremely popular for many reasons, driving demand, and begs the need for more such spaces.
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yeeeeeeeees
If I wasn't from Ottawa and had family and friends here as well as a golden handcuffs, I would be in Montréal too.
nice to see a nuanced take to combat the not-just-amsterdam flee at all costs approach
I like how you ended the video with Montreal's answer to the Skytrain in Vancouver.
There is an arrogance associated with some Montrealers, different from that of Torontonians, but both are liable to elicit a knee-jerk reaction from residents of less august conurbations. ;)
The thing with good urbanism on this continent is that its basically across the board expensive, because it is fundamentally desirable, and scarce, any place that gets it right gets swamped with demand of people moving there.
and yet thet economic return from urban areas is several magnitudes greater than low dense areas..
@@r3d0c That's true, but it doesn't help if you want to live there and can't afford it.
I am commenting before watching ( I usually don't do this ) Leaving Ottawa was the best chose of my life period! Ottawa is like super conservative boring primary school. Montréal is like being stuck in Neverland art high-school for ever. ( but your body still gets older) After Montréal the next adult step is the rest of the world! ❤
4 years ago I moved from a colonial suburb of Boston (fantastic for rearing kids, but a car was essential) to a very urbanist neighborhood in Minneapolis.
The urbanist factor was only a very small part of why I moved. Most important was housing costs, second were some personal issues I'm not comfortable sharing. Since this is my "age in place" home, I wanted to be able to manage without the need to drive, but that was maybe #3 on my list. [I am lucky that my job moved with me.]
Is urbanism important? Yes. Is it the most important factor? Almost never.
So, your kids grew up in the middle of nowhere? Or did you move when the oldest was 4?
@@Paul_C None of those.
We moved to our suburban home (13 miles from the center of Boston, not very far away at all) when my youngest was 4; I moved away when he graduated high school and left for college.
As suburbs go, that town was fairly walkable, but transit was not wonderful so I spent many years running Mom's Taxi Service, driving for groceries, etc. We walked when we could, and when I got a job downtown, I took the commuter bus to the subway every day. My son walked or rode his bike to school.
I live in Toronto and wouldn't want to live anywhere else within Canada. I've been to Ottawa once, and yeah, it's really boring, same with Calgary & Edmonton . Montreal is a great city, same with Vancouver!
Still forgot to shoutout StL in your rundown of overlooked havens of good urbanism 😢
Great video as usual though! 😊
Great video! I liked the previous one but I can see why somebody might take the message of "North America isn't hopeless, come to Montreal!" from the last one, at least if they stopped watching part way through.
Always vote with your feet.
Thanks for the video and sorry you even had to make it. The online-urbanist community has gotten way too distracted with this petty stuff.
I blame NJB and his fanboys. They're the most ignorant hateful doomers.
I was shocked when you mentioned my city(Indianapolis).Usually people dont really think about it as a decent and liveable city and it is really car centric.But I also want to leave because of lifestyle choices and to live in a new environment but I want to hope my city does better.
I'm wondering what you two think of Montreal planning to close Camillien-Houde way ?
All I see from those comments is CONTENT
Great stuff, always glad to have y'all's thorough analysis
It's really about solving a problem for yourself by checking out vs. solving it collectively.
Instead of moving to Leipzig or Groningen, I moved to a flat 10mins from downtown Belo Horizonte, paying 1/10 of the rent I would there. Our bike infrastructure is not good but I can bike nearby. The public transportation and 15-minute city concepts are widespread through the metropolitan area, even in distant suburbs and metropolitan towns. I use the bike infrastructure to show there's demand for it and for the city to finally implement and deliver the planned network . I'm also organizing myself politically to (hopefully) make it happen.
A video in response to my comment!
I love your channel. I just had to call you guys out trying to shade @Notjustbikes for his comment about leaving North America. It was especially bizarre to make a whole video criticizing his comment, while citing urbanism as one of the reasons for your move.
I'm happy for your new life in Montreal! And happy to see you've come around to understanding that people can and should move for all kinds of reasons. Including good urbanism (if that makes them happy).
"Coming around"? We said multiple times in that previous video that there's nothing wrong with people deciding to move, just that urbanism is one of many things that matters.
I like urbanism, but I have developed a an attachment to the State of Alabama, to the point where I might not want to leave. I just want to make my town and my State a little easier to live in.
7:48 - 8:00 then why even make that last video?
i agreed with the last one but i think you kinda misstept here a bit.
even if it might have been a little hypocritical, dont think its that bad.
but in this video, in my opinion, your not really saying anything.
you can defend your own reasons, but that really isnt the problem.
if you wanna move, you wanna move, for whatever the reasons might be.
telling people to work on a better future where you live i agree with
but this idk.
I love your channel.
ok but the weirdest thing about the criticism...Montreal is in North America
Montreal is in it's own space.
Same fie Mexico city .
For any US watchers, many towns and cities in New England have pretty good urbanism although for a good chuck of them you will only be able to live car light.
CT: New Haven, Stamford, New London, Norwich, Torrington (kind-of), Stafford (specifically Stafford Springs, the town is extremely rural though so the best you'll be able to do is car light). And before anyone says "Hartford" of "Bridgeport", trust me you do not want to live in either of those cities.
Mass: Boston (obviously) Worcester, Northampton/Amherst, Salem, New Bedford, (probably more I'm forgetting)
Rhode Island: Providence and it's metro.
Vermont: Bellows Falls (has a train station despite being very rural), Brattelboro, Bennington, St Albans, Montpelier, Rutland, Waterbury, and of course Burlington and it's surrounding towns (with a passable bus network to boot)
New Hampshire: Concord, Manchester, Dover (kind-of).
Maine: Portland, Lewiston, Bangor, Augusta, Norway, Westbrook.
One caveat that I will mention is that the farther north in New England you go, the worst the opioid epidemic gets so if you are not comfortable with that stay to the southern half of the region.
If you have the chance, please do a video on Paris and the new bike paths there. Last April I was there for the first time in four years and I was flabbergasted by the changes in streets and bike paths around the city. More particularly stunning is the Rue de Rivoli. Thanks
America has so much more problems than just bad city layout.
It also has really bad health care that costs twice as much as anywhere else, unions and work life Ballance are seen as evil or not financially possible, even companies are allowed to make toxic stuff and can just change it to make it worse because the laws are made for freedom rather than people's safety, and a political system that is in a deadlock and prevents the changes we want.
I don't like the idea of moving to a completely different country because I might not fit in, but with everything so messed up in America I plan on saving up for a few years and if nothing has improved moving to somewhere like the Netherlands or Sweden or something like that.
You clearly pay too much attention to sensationalist news media.
As a native Louisville resident, what did yall find?
Although I do believe in changing places for the better, that timeline may be infeasible for some people. It would take generations to change the physical environment considering how hard we've made the process to do it. If you want your kids to experience a certain childhood or don't have a lot of years left, you're probably better off moving to where you really want to be before it's too late. I believe activism is worth it but I also don't think getting involved guarantees anything. Up to you individually if you want to accept that.
Hopefully, each activist builds off each other in an ideal scenario. But if there's one criticism I'd level at urbanists, it's that they think we all have the same values and motivations in the end. The auto mechanics, car dealership, auto workers, etc. all have a vested economic interest in continuing car dependency. Suburbia depends on the car. Saying we're going to end car dependency puts up their defenses. They'd lose their source of livelihood and privilege in society. That's not happening without an ugly fight along the way. Current day NA is much more dependent on the car than 1970s Amsterdam was so that was never an even comparison.
Sure, there's lots of places in a big country like America. But I don't think it's going to be a linear path to end car dependency here. We're very divided right now and this is an easy issue to turn into another culture war. If Republicans take back the White House, wouldn't you think they would kill the IRA (at least the liberal parts of it)? And since we keep ping-ponging between administrations that want very different things for the country, is there an actual unified vision for better urbanism that has continuity? Will "national interests" take over and we aim for EVs and AVs instead for technological advantage and keep building highways the same way we always have? I can't know the future. I don't think anyone does.
I'll save you the wall of text. Urbanism shifts in car-dependent America, much like gun control, will be GLACIAL paced. As such, it's largely lifestyle branding from those who can afford it within a single generation, since it becomes an upper class splurge to live in walkable communities with overpriced housing, because of their remarkably limited proliferation in a country of 350 million.
I'm already in my 40s, I got no time to wait for Godot, especially for us secularists who don't believe in the afterlife. At the end of the day, North Americans are not culturally collectivist, so the decisions are made with self-interest. Pay my mortgage and fix my transportation logisitcs problems, otherwise step off and eat my begrudged patronizing of traffic-maddening suburbanism.
I was born and raised in Toronto, and spent the fisrt 47 years of my life living there. I knew the good parts, and the bad parts. I left, or rather was forced out, several years ago. My income was simply not keeping up with the rising cost of living in Toronto. There is no benefit to living in a big city with cultural and uraban amenities (which Toronto has plenty of) when year after year more of my income was gobbled up by just paying the rent. At some point in the mid-2000s I realized I would never be able to afford to own a home. Not even a condo.
Then I experienced renoviction, not once, but twice. I moved to more affordable accomodations in a less dsirable part of the city in the 2010s. I could still walk to 24-hour transit but there were fewer "nice" stores or restaurants. There was a bakery, a butcher shop and a decent grocery store minutes from my front door. Then my building was sold out from under me a third time in 2016, and the new owners were renovating the building and installing marble countertops and stainless steel fridges and stoves in the vacant units. Renoviction for a third time was just a matter of time. Not "if" but "when." I left Toronto and moved to Northern Ontario, where I have family. I landed a two-bedroom apartment for the rent one would pay in the mid-1990s in Toronto for a similar sized unit. The spare room is filled with books and hosts the computer I am typing this on.
I got a family doctor within two years. The town is small enough that I can still walk to 75% of everything needed for daily life. But there are no art galleries, museums, movie theatres or any major cultural attractions. But I had an increasingly hard time affording those things in Toronto anyway. Having fewer money problems compensates.
Being able to take criticism and learn from it serves as a great filter for knowing who to listen to. Saying people disagreeing with you because that's "how the internet is", is quite the disingenous way of dealing with critique. Why not simply acknowledge the inherent irony that comes with living in one of the few cities in the U.S. and Canada with good urban design while telling other people they can be happy without good urban design? Living in Montreal and knowing you have the option of moving to Vancouver or Toronto is a different life situation than that of most people who grew up in anglophone North America. Also, just like a single bike lane is much different than a bike network, a couple neighborhoods with good urban design is quite different from good urban design across an entire town/city.
Even more problematic is the continued reduction of urbanism to little more than aesthetics and statistics. The field of urbanism encompasses more than just bike lanes, trains, and residents per square meter. It deals with housing affordability, job markets and ethno-linguistic diversity among residents. Good "urbanism" goes much deeper than subway system with nice headways.
To be fair, however, I agree with the conclusion of the video. Moving is almost always a very personal decision with many determining factors and pockets of good spatial planning exist all over the world.
The problem with comments on "the internet" is that many people will respond to your video without having paid much attention or watched all the way through. We went out of our way to say multiple times in that video that there's nothing wrong with moving, and yet people still interpreted us as saying that moving is bad. You're right that we don't live in the average place in North America, but that was one of the main points of the video. You don't have to live in the average place in North America. It's not just Montreal or Vancouver - we mentioned in the video that we really enjoy Halifax, for example.
As for your criticism of our focus, we focus on things that (1) we find interesting and that (2) we have data or experiences to make a video with. I happen to find density interesting and it's one of the most widely available types of data. We also talk a lot about housing affordability. If you have other interests, data, or experiences that you think would fill an interesting gap in urbanist UA-cam videos, you should absolutely consider making them yourself.
@@OhTheUrbanity I appreciate the answer, and can appreciate that you've got to deal with a lot of those types of comments.
I also have no problem with the focus of the channel, per se. I've watched and enjoyed most of the videos, specifically because they are about places you have experience with and clearly lots of interest. Rather, I find issue with the dismissal of urbanism as some kind of niche hobby that isn't important for everyone.
Cities with "good urbanism" improve quality of life and make it easier to live a happy life. Importantly though, "good urbanism" will look different in different places. For example, City A has almost no bike infrastructure, decent public transit, and a great network of public sports facilities, libraries, and cultural spaces. While City B is a small town with terrible public transit but has worked with residents to design a robust network of mixed-use pathways and local event spaces with regular events. Both of those cities have "good urbanism", even though neither city would be likely to be the focus of most urbanist UA-cam videos. So, while there's nothing wrong with what anyone decides to focus on, I think it's important to keep in mind that urbanism is more than just what happens to be popular online.
Personally, I don't think North America is doomed per se, but it's hard to find good urbanism in smaller cities than it is in other places. Outside the bigger metros, you are really looking at older towns (mostly in the Northeast) without the public transportation/infrastructure to make it practical.
You got plenty of good options between the northeast and Midwest U.S. the Midwest is particularly overlooked
@@thedapperdolphin1590 No doubt I overlook the Midwest. It's just harder to make that move since the public transportation options just aren't there. I find that even walkable towns have their limits as then you'll only be limited to that particular neighborhood or city. Maybe that's fine depending on the person. But without that density it's certainly harder to do things like Intercity travel car-free.
But I agree that you can find good urbanism even in the Midwest. Even going car-lite might be good enough for many.
Trust me North America is definitely doomed.
Critical infrastructure decaying into dust, and manufacturing sectors gutted and outsourced generations ago - never to return.
It's over.
North America has fallen, billions must drive
Retelling the internet the obvious.
Autowa has a long way to go (But there are some very nicce Neighbourhoods pocketed throughout)
Canadian who lives in United States here. Sorry how does Canada do better? At what exactly? I am not aware of any city that does anything "better", quite the opposite. I lived in Toronto btw.
On top of the examples we mentioned in the video, public transit ridership tends to be higher in Canada. Per capita transit ridership in Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver is about double any American metro area outside of New York ( twitter.com/mayorseidel/status/1611906262643478529 ). But of course there are still lots of places in the U.S. (even outside of New York) where transit is a big part of everyday life.
@@OhTheUrbanity thanks for the response. Speaking from experience, Toronto public transit is as bad as it gets. I commuted to work by TTC every day. Travel time could range anywhere between 30 mins to 90 mins one way. And I didn't live that far.
Also, vast majority of Torontonians are not doing it out of good will. They are forced to because of terrible infrastructure due to lack of planning and corruption. Extremely high cost of basic necessities like parking, over inflated cost of vehicle ownership including fuel.
The point I am making is I never considered Toronto a walkable city with good transit but quite the opposite. The public transit ridership statistics are not very useful by themselves. There are a lot of factors to consider.
I live in Orlando area now and I don't think Toronto public transit is any better than around here. There is a lot of work to be done. But after living in both nations long term, I do not think Canadian cities do it better at all, quite the opposite.
@@bloodycrepe Orlando LOL
@@TheTroyc1982 what about it?
I do love D.C. and its surrounds. And it's getting better season by season on the walkability, bikability, and transit side of things. But jeez, is it expensive. We're stuck out in the suburbs, and the only reason we can afford to live even this close is that I struck gold on a below market value apartment 15 years ago with a landlord who isn't a garbage person.
If we're ever going to move or try to *gasp* own a home, it's going to be tough. We'd love to move into DC proper, but that's not in our reach. At this point, Philly is looking like a possibility. Relatively inexpensive, good bones, and still part of the Northeast Corridor. So long as we live in the US, I can't imagine living outside of the Northeast Corridor.
D.C. proper has great urbanism. But I grew up in its suburbs and its a world of difference. Using the bus as a teenager was a nightmare and they don't connect well out there. Hard to stay long-term too because of the cost and I think the entire Northeast Corridor has a huge affordability problem. I've asked Philly residents and they're always shocked that someone would consider moving there if they have options lol
Have you considered Silver Spring, MD? It's right next to DC, walkable and culturally diverse, and a really cool place. Probably also a lot more affordable than DC. Worth checking out in my view.
@@mushroomsteve, I love Silver Spring. My favorite movie theater in the whole region is the AFI Silver. It's also wonderfully connected to DC via cycling, bus, train, etc. But sadly, while there might be a unicorn in there somewhere, as far as I've seen recently, we're totally priced out. There were some places we might have been able to do 5 or 6 years ago, but prices have just kept going up. We're not actively looking to move right now, but may start in a couple years. Fingers crossed some elements of the market have changed by then.
@@matthewconstantine5015 Sorry to hear that. Housing prices are going through the roof, and even as a homeowner, I find it scary because if we had to move, we would be priced out of a comparable neighborhood to where we currently live. Here in the Pacific Northwest, housing prices have doubled within just the last decade, and incomes aren't keeping pace.
@@machtmann2881, the suburbs of DC are getting better. They're not good. I don't want to oversell them. But they're getting better. Bus services are improving. New cycle trails & protected bike lanes are going in. They're even talking about building transit adjacent, mixed use developments around a lot of the above-ground Metro stations. And there has been some progress made on zoning changes that should help somewhat with needed housing stock. But there's a long way to go.
Philly has issues, to be sure. But it's well located, has a great deal of urban density and a mostly functional public transit system, as well as a good deal of culture (...trying to ignore the sports fans...). And, compared to the DC region, it's very affordable, with comparable homes going for half, or a quarter of the price. I don't know that I'd actually want to live there. I'd need to spend a lot more time checking it out before making the decision. But it ticks a lot of boxes for me that, at least so far, outweigh the negatives.
Ottawa is boring and ugly and has a very cringey small town yokel feel to it. When I lived there it shocked me how unimpressive it truly was given it's our capital. Montreal is much more vibrant and beautiful and has its shit together when it comes to transit, bikes, pedestrian-only streets, etc. Not sure how it's considered "hypocrisy" to point out pros and cons and have a preference based on your wants and needs but this is the internet so everybody needs to weigh in with their dumb opinions, myself included! Love your channel.
In Ottawa, despite all its infrastructure problems, businesses generally try to accommodate bicycles, and there is no social stigma against bicycle commuting. I lived there from 2012-2019 and saw the incremental progress the city was making, to the point that finally the majority was okay with retrofitting in the infrastructure.
Of all the Canadian cities I have lived in, I would say that Moncton, New Brunswick is one of the worst when it comes to urbanism and traffic planning. The vast majority of the city's leisure services budget was spent on indoor ice rinks (1 for every 10,000 citizens!). Geographically speaking, it has the potential to be a good cycling city: it is largely flat and most everyday distances travelled are 5 km or less. But the problems are at the top with council and executives sending a social message that active transportation is a childrens' activity and should be avoided: A 15 km/h speed limit was imposed for bicycles, and all other active transportation besides walking and cycling was legally banned city-wide. The craziest thing is that (while I was not living there at the time), city council actually considered eliminating public transit entirely to cut the property tax rate, but backtracked due to protests.
Hope you have a lovely time where you live now.
Truth is that decisions about life are never entirely ideological and while I've not yet seen "You Don't Need to Move to Amsterdam to be Happy" I imagine its more making the case that "Your City's Not Lost Yet" (Sorry to any Ukrainians who noticed the similarity with the Ukrainian National Anthem) than any kind of "You must stay where you were born if you want any change."
I get that, I voted to remain in the European Union and while I could in theory get an Irish Passport (and yes I deliberately chose the flag from before the Union with Ireland) the question would be what would I do with it, since my disabilities mean a lot of the opportunities available to others with EU access were not lost to me but rather not available anyway.
So I work to make the best of things where I am and provide some joy and happiness along the way.
But that's how I live, I cannot say this is what anyone else should or should not do since I don't know you, I can only see what the camera shows me and so I just hope you have a happy life.
wtf are you talking about..
@@r3d0c Fair enough, I probably waffle on too much. I was just meaning that moving cities and making changes where you live don't have to be mutually exclusive. Hope you're have a nice day.
Ottawa is a bit of a sh*thole right now with Sutcliffe in charge and the clown show around the freedumbers continuing
It's not hypocritical. Walking away is the best kind of leverage you have in anything.
As someone whos from Ottawa and has lived all over other parts of Canada (Montreal, Toronto, small BC towns, Vancouver, Halifax and Toronto) I'd easily say Ottawa has been the worst city. Calgary and Montreal have been my favourites because of the diversity and public transport, i feel like Ottawa is just a forgotten city let alone the capital of one of the best countries in the world. I find another big problem topic that doesnt come up a lot is the HUGE wealth devide in Ottawa, i grew up in Uplands where my side was very poor and a "hood" where if u just cross the street and go one block up your looking at million dollar mansions. The south of Ottawa isnt even the only place like this in the city, its the same deal in vanier looking into the super ultra wealthy manor park. Ottawa has just been in a giant downwards spiral for a long time to the point where i even doubt they could fix it to be as great as Montreal or any other decent Canadian city. Maybe you guys havent given up on Ottawa but i and a lot of other Ottawans have.
Between who? Government workers and average folks?
@@shauncameron8390 …. yes but also other things😂😂 there’s more rich jobs in ottawa than just government shit lol i’m just saying the gentrification in ottawa and wealth divide is insane
There is a bigger wealth divide in Montreal than Ottawa. Ottawa does not have the ultra rich you see in Montreal, you do have a lot of people that have good six figure jobs in Ottawa though
@@map13syrup
Mostly government officials.
Because Montreal is the economic hub of Quebec and is home to a fair share of Crown and other corporations like VIA Rail, CN, Air Canada, Quebecor, Videotron, Bell, Banque National (National Bank of Canada), etc.
@@shauncameron8390Yup I grew up in Montreal. Just saying if this person thinks theres a wealth gap in Ottawa they clearly have not spent much time in Montreal. Theres areas that make Rockliffe look middle class
No. Get out if you can!
At least you both got out alive.
6:28 wow that was just so infuriating to read how backwards can you be 😅
You’re 100% right when mentioning safety as a factor in finding the right place to live.
There’s simply a ton of states in the US where it’s not safe for trans people like myself to live. The people there aren’t welcoming, and there’s lots of bigoted legislation being passed in those states.
forget the anti-Trans legislation and think generally...
it's not safe for human life, period - if you're trying to commute on foot.
Trust me here in the Bible Belt there are literal crazy meth heads driving around, some of whom almost killed me a few times when I was walking the roads.
No one should have to live in this car-centric shithole.
You didn't move to another country, just cities. I don't see the need for this justification(?).
If you take away anything from these two videos hopefully it's that -> Montréal > Ottawa 😎 !!
I'm surprised to learn that your previous video drew negative comments. Minutes before watching it, I had queued one up by a well-known Canadian ex-pat urbanist comparing Canada (where I live) to the Netherlands, where he lives now. His intense negativity and hopelessness were so thick that halfway through I couldn't take it anymore. As luck would have it, you were next. Your video, on the contrary, inspired me to see the bright side of the place where I (must) live, despite its incomplete, moronic bike infrastructure (at least they're trying). It left me feeling refreshed, kinda saved. I meant to thank you, but I went cycling instead, and had a blast. 😁👍
Yes...
There’s a classic story about a guy who tells a priest he likes Jesus, but he doesn’t want to join the church because it’s full of hypocrites, to which the priest replies jovially, “Oh don’t worry; there’s plenty of room for one more! You’ll fit right in!”
I wouldn’t say NOWHERE in North America has what I’m looking for (though my medical condition severely limits my options*) but I WOULD say that almost everywhere in North America, especially the car dependent suburban hellscape I currently live in, does NOT have even most, let alone all, of what I’m looking for. I’m not unreasonable. I don’t expect to find a place that’s got it all, but I do expect I should be able to find a place that’s got most of it. But that’s nowhere in North America.
*This is owing to the patchwork of state laws where most states don’t cover adults with my condition. And, because federal law doesn’t cover my condition, Medicare won’t cover it, so that’s looming when I reach retirement age (unless the gene therapy trials work out).
Y’all had to change the speed of your own video!?
I can't believe you abandoned the (wait, we're going with this take? ok..) Small Towns and Rural Areas you were from! How dare you not stay and fight for urbanism (what are we doing? why is this the take?!) in those low population areas where you were raised!
Great video as always! But most of us know that the previous video you folks made had a *single target audience* that being: *Jason of NJB* without a doubt.
NJB and his fanboys are bitter angry hateful doomers who are not our friends. They deserve to be called out by us.
Ottawa is in Ontario , the USA culture and corruption province with scandals ... Ottawa is the capital of Canada but dont define the entity of Canada and Values ...
I have been to 106 countries on 6 continents, and lived over 15 years abroad, from the US to Japan. Canadian cities are some of the best in the world and deserve their great rep. Furthermore, most cities in the world have never been in better shape - and I can say that based on first-hand experience plus comparing with places like Europe circa 1984 when I backpacked it as a 20 year old. I'll repeat it - based on my experience (not rumours, not the mass media, not second hand info) - the world's cities have never been in better shape. Oh, and I was BORN in Ottawa and went to university there. I am currently in Danang, Vietnam and if you have never been here - you should come here. Trust me.
Within 3 hours!
I abandoned the States and am loving it in Calgary (just too many structural and societal issues in that country). 6 years strong now!
So your decision was purely ideological.
@@crowmob-yo6ry I wouldn’t say that. Quality of life is so much better here. Life expectancy is four years longer for males in Canada instead of in the States. I have more freedom to get around my city how I choose: by transit, walking, cycling, or driving compared to most cities in the States where you’re essentially forced into a car. All this and so many more tangible examples makes living in Calgary a world better than anywhere else I’ve previously lived across 4 US States.
@@AustinSersen depends which cities in which states and which neighbourhood of Calgary. No country, city nor state is the same everywhere. I live in a US city that's exactly as you described Calgary, especially in my neighbourhood. Life expectancy also varies by subnational region. Generalising entire countries and territories is ignorant and shows a lack of education about the world. Also, Vancouver and Toronto have way better transit.
@@crowmob-yo6ry Everything okay with you, mate?
People always bash the city I live in, yet so many people move here because Toronto is so expensive. No place is a utopia, and each has its pros and cons. I just want to see our governments invest in all types of housing and public and active transit options and stop feeding us the bs that train travel and bike commuting is impossible in Canada.
Ottawa is the one who abandoned you.
👍
The ridiculous amount of troll comments your last video got from butthurt NJB fanboys is proof that your message is being heard. Never stop!
Even if you did "abandon" such a place as these people imply, the difference between you guys and these people is that you guys are at least doing something by educating the public.
I have high doubts that any of these people complaining about you guys have made any significant effort to begin with.
Get out of cities now
Why?
@@tylerhergott3893 excess control
@@dealman3312 And your mobility in the countryside won't be at the mercy of auto and oil companies?
@@Kizarat
Better than being at the mercy of the government and public-sector unions.
Don't agree with a lot of what you say, but keep up the good work. 👍
My main gripe was with the incorrect title of the video. "You don't need to move to Amsterdam to be happy" is evidently incorrect.
"Don't move to Amsterdam" is correct. 😉
If good urbanism is an important quality of life issue for you, it's better for you to move out of NA if you have the chance. I think you basically admit that in this video, but it still feels like you are trying to dismiss this pov that was brought up by NJB. I still think NJB was absolutely justified for his position and I hate that it's caused so much controversy in the urbanism community.
Good urbanism is important for us and we found a place in North America that works quite well for us in that regard.
EU countries are super selective about who they allow to immigrate. If you're not rich and relatively young you're probably locked out.
I grew up in Ottawa. I'm ashamed of that city. The medioticies who have been ruining Canada and enriching themselves at everyone else's expense have established themselves for multi generations there. The reaction to the trucker protests reinforced my feelings that Ottawans are smug and contemptuous of the country/colony they rule over. Selfish over-indulged NIMBY city. I'm glad that Ottawa is finally building transit. But really its a hundred years too late. For me growing up it was appalling having to rely on infrequent OC Transpo buses which ran infrequently, cost a lot and sropped service an hour before last call at the bars. I lost track of how many times I had to walk home after a night out downtown all the way out to Carlington in severely frigid temperatures. The general attitude I encountered there was downright reactionary and very smug. My hope is that Canada breaks up and Ottawa becomes a big university town with all e creeps who work for the government of Canada out of their jobs.
You're right to move to Montreal. Its a mich, much better city with much more going on. Ottawa is a place for weirdos.
Why is it called ”OC Transpo”? Because it’s not Rapid Transit, so you can’t call it ”transpoRT”
Please leave and take the rest of the Freedumbers with you. Ottawa has dealt with hundreds of protests without having to resort to police intervention, before the so called truckers arrived and will deal with hundreds more in the years to come. Protest is a welcome part of democracy, whiny clueless idiots are not.
Maybe?
I wish Ottawa would move out of Canada. Preferably to somewhere in outer space.
That'd be progress for everyone,
wtf is this utterly moronic comment, utterly divorced from reality given the other comment you left thinking the government workers who live closer to downtown and yimby are somehow the problem even though suburbs like kanata and orleans are places who vote nimby policies, and then apparently we didnt lick right wing trucker boots that makes us bad?
Ottawexit
So, what I'm getting out of this video is that you guys are responsible for Ottawa's O-train demise? :)
I live in Halifax, so I am a little sad you didn't end up here this time, but I did live in Montréal for the six months before the pandemic (had that not intervened, I might still be there today!)
I've lived in Ottawa, too, and I think all three have big strengths, and also things they could learn from each other.
Mostly, I'm glad that you've found a spot that fits. Keep your chins up, and keep up the great work-
I love how hyperspecific these videos have gotten, genuinely. I get tired of urbanist uhh “content” that is so broad in scope. Your stuff feels personal and meaningful
Channels with a more global scope often miss a lot of the nuances that should motivate neighborhood and city level decisions
@@cheef825 Yah!!! One of my favourite urbanist UA-camr people is The Rambling Hamiltonian (www.youtube.com/@HamiltonRambler) because his videos are so hyperspecific and actionable. It's nice!!!
Exactly! Generalising entire countries, regions or even cities is extremely ignorant and shows a lack of education. Looking at you, NJB and your fanboys...