The monitoring system totally worked, they just ignored it. After the bang dive, the stress strain and noise profile by depth changed dramatically. Some channel went through the data, and it gave him two dives worth of warnings, he just kept moving the goal post, but he had said in one of his videos that if the sounds changed at the same depth, that would tell you it's failing. Then when it happened, he apparently ignored it or just didn't graph the data.
Someone needs to do a buckling failure study on five, one inch thick concentric carbon fiber wound tubes held together by one mm thick layers of resin (simulating the resin coating applied between cures). Or just put a one mm air gap between the one inch thick tubes. This will measurably reduce buckling strength particularly in resisting dome to dome compression. Since there are pre and post failure hull samples retained, it would also be instructive to run compressive strength test of coupons cut in circumferential and axial directions. Failure mode observed would help understand load transfer issues at interface with intermediate rings.
@@SammyNeedsAnAlibi Not that the viewport retainer ring is missing and all its bolts are broke off. So it likely got pushed out the front. Probably by hull debris and oxygen cylinders as front titanium dome imploded rearward.
@@SammyNeedsAnAlibi clearly wasnt. It buckeled at the Interface rings, where the bigges sheerforces split the layers. That also replicates the implosion pattern.
There is a reason why it was non linear, it was the layers compressing whicht also applies sheer forces in that bespoke layerline. Thats why its non linear and at a shallower depth, because the layers allready compressed again, after that its up to linear again.
Around 57:00 it's not more problematic to have a non-linear graph at high depth, as the linear response should be persistent in the low pressure if the laminate is still good. The non-linear response to low but multiplying loads hints at layer separation, druptured fibers and such. This would not show under high loads before failure, as the pressure holds the loose laminate in place.
I guess narco sub manufacturers took notes and now make these to go deeper. You can do one run for them and they'll borrow you the sub to visit the Titanic.
Ah, so this is where "Dr. Ing" is at. 🙂. When i saw the title of this vid on my feed, I was going, "Oh no! Joe Pesci will be ranting and raving about people stealing his stuff over on his site" LOL But I know they (Ing/Pesci) have been in contact for awhile on this subject.
If you're talking about who I think, he has great engineering knowledge and thoughts, and I enjoy all his videos. But it does seem like he's a little more concerned about what other people are doing than I would have thought. In any case I respect his channel and his content. He's smart
@@ED-es2qv Someday, I might change his nickname from "Joe Pesci" to "Cat-Man" , but that is a reach.🙂 as Adam West has dibbed's on that real nick-name.
Here's a forensic analysis, if you are intending to descend to 4000m, proof your homogenous material spherical craft to 7500m and whatever you do, don't glue a cylindrical, laminated bastard together with blokes on different size step ladders, using plastic spatulas to bosh the glue around the interfaces.............Oh and if you are silly enough to do so, don't tow it on a rope for best part of 400 miles across the North Atlantic before you send it into the abyss.
In all of these reports I have yet to hear how this composite section was cured. You mentioned an oven one time, that is the first time I heard this. I would think with a structure this thick that it should have been cured on the mandrel in a high pressure autoclave to eliminate porosity and voids. Of course, this probably wouldn't have prevented this disaster, but perhaps may have helped.
In various testimony and technical documents it is kinda common knowledge and is explained the hull was wound 1 inch at a time and cured in a autoclave on the mandrel.
AIUI where the hull was spun/wound was 1+ hour plus away from the curing oven at another factory/shop. They spun an 1" , took it to the oven, cured it, let it cool, then brought it back spun another inch then took it to the oven again , rinse repeat till it got to the final thickness. This process took many days- something like "2 weeks or more?" IIRC , to finish the hull tube , between spinning , moving, curing , cooling , moving , x6 times. It was loaded with voids and imperfections because of this.
@@chrisperrien7055 Yes, they also ground/sanded down the bumps in between layers which caused the ply's to be broken and not be continuous. In some places more than half the ply's in a layer were interrupted.
@@salland12for what it's worth, the picture looks like the 1" sections came apart as if they weren't attached to each other. Definitely didn't fail like a homogeneous material, whether that's good or bad I don't know. My unrelated experience is that layers of plywood make a great jack base that's extremely hard to break, yet when I use a thicker but single 2x6, it breaks under much less load than the plywood. I'm guessing it's bad when your submarine is layered, but I just don't know.
The curved surface of the titanium hemispheres remained intact while the straight surface on at least one axis of carbon disappeared but would a curved surface hemisphere made from carbon fibre survive or fail is the key question...........
Why couldn't he build it out of 100% titanium. Sure it would have been very expensive. Weight would have been a problem, necessitating a much larger craft. However, he may have got 1000 dives with cyclic fatigue being easier to track. The increased reliability would have translated into increased patronage.
The monitoring system totally worked, they just ignored it. After the bang dive, the stress strain and noise profile by depth changed dramatically. Some channel went through the data, and it gave him two dives worth of warnings, he just kept moving the goal post, but he had said in one of his videos that if the sounds changed at the same depth, that would tell you it's failing. Then when it happened, he apparently ignored it or just didn't graph the data.
Someone needs to do a buckling failure study on five, one inch thick concentric carbon fiber wound tubes held together by one mm thick layers of resin (simulating the resin coating applied between cures). Or just put a one mm air gap between the one inch thick tubes. This will measurably reduce buckling strength particularly in resisting dome to dome compression.
Since there are pre and post failure hull samples retained, it would also be instructive to run compressive strength test of coupons cut in circumferential and axial directions. Failure mode observed would help understand load transfer issues at interface with intermediate rings.
it doesn't matter... the underrated viewport was the key failure... that's why 2/3 of the POS's remains are in the rear.
@@SammyNeedsAnAlibi Not that the viewport retainer ring is missing and all its bolts are broke off. So it likely got pushed out the front. Probably by hull debris and oxygen cylinders as front titanium dome imploded rearward.
I think some company already did those tests, followed by thorough studies by NTSB and US and Canadian coast guards.
@@DrJuan-ev8lu That too is an excellent theory.
@@SammyNeedsAnAlibi clearly wasnt. It buckeled at the Interface rings, where the bigges sheerforces split the layers. That also replicates the implosion pattern.
There is a reason why it was non linear, it was the layers compressing whicht also applies sheer forces in that bespoke layerline. Thats why its non linear and at a shallower depth, because the layers allready compressed again, after that its up to linear again.
Well i guess that reason worked out well
@@truesoulghost2777 yeah, it the reason why it went boom. It worked out well in the sense that we got rid of a crazy person.
A killing machine by design !
also one of the rare problems that solved itself...
Around 57:00 it's not more problematic to have a non-linear graph at high depth, as the linear response should be persistent in the low pressure if the laminate is still good. The non-linear response to low but multiplying loads hints at layer separation, druptured fibers and such.
This would not show under high loads before failure, as the pressure holds the loose laminate in place.
Has the Titan been repaired? My family and I are eager to go see the Titanic!
A little superglue, and it should work just fine once again!
too soon, but very accurate!
If that is a joke, it is in very poor taste.
I guess narco sub manufacturers took notes and now make these to go deeper. You can do one run for them and they'll borrow you the sub to visit the Titanic.
@@carolcook6130how about captain Stockton Crunch?
Ah, so this is where "Dr. Ing" is at. 🙂. When i saw the title of this vid on my feed, I was going,
"Oh no! Joe Pesci will be ranting and raving about people stealing his stuff over on his site" LOL
But I know they (Ing/Pesci) have been in contact for awhile on this subject.
If you're talking about who I think, he has great engineering knowledge and thoughts, and I enjoy all his videos. But it does seem like he's a little more concerned about what other people are doing than I would have thought. In any case I respect his channel and his content. He's smart
@@ED-es2qv Someday, I might change his nickname from "Joe Pesci" to "Cat-Man" , but that is a reach.🙂
as Adam West has dibbed's on that real nick-name.
Here's a forensic analysis, if you are intending to descend to 4000m, proof your homogenous material spherical craft to 7500m and whatever you do, don't glue a cylindrical, laminated bastard together with blokes on different size step ladders, using plastic spatulas to bosh the glue around the interfaces.............Oh and if you are silly enough to do so, don't tow it on a rope for best part of 400 miles across the North Atlantic before you send it into the abyss.
In all of these reports I have yet to hear how this composite section was cured. You mentioned an oven one time, that is the first time I heard this. I would think with a structure this thick that it should have been cured on the mandrel in a high pressure autoclave to eliminate porosity and voids. Of course, this probably wouldn't have prevented this disaster, but perhaps may have helped.
In various testimony and technical documents it is kinda common knowledge and is explained the hull was wound 1 inch at a time and cured in a autoclave on the mandrel.
AIUI where the hull was spun/wound was 1+ hour plus away from the curing oven at another factory/shop. They spun an 1" , took it to the oven, cured it, let it cool, then brought it back spun another inch then took it to the oven again , rinse repeat till it got to the final thickness. This process took many days- something like "2 weeks or more?" IIRC , to finish the hull tube , between spinning , moving, curing , cooling , moving , x6 times. It was loaded with voids and imperfections because of this.
@@chrisperrien7055 Yes, they also ground/sanded down the bumps in between layers which caused the ply's to be broken and not be continuous. In some places more than half the ply's in a layer were interrupted.
@@salland12for what it's worth, the picture looks like the 1" sections came apart as if they weren't attached to each other. Definitely didn't fail like a homogeneous material, whether that's good or bad I don't know. My unrelated experience is that layers of plywood make a great jack base that's extremely hard to break, yet when I use a thicker but single 2x6, it breaks under much less load than the plywood. I'm guessing it's bad when your submarine is layered, but I just don't know.
Iv seen people on here cure and take care of resin table tops more than this deathbox submarine
The curved surface of the titanium hemispheres remained intact while the straight surface on at least one axis of carbon disappeared but would a curved surface hemisphere made from carbon fibre survive or fail is the key question...........
two bathtubs, welded together would have made better submarine
David CEO Gemcivil Australia 🇦🇺
Why couldn't he build it out of 100% titanium. Sure it would have been very expensive. Weight would have been a problem, necessitating a much larger craft. However, he may have got 1000 dives with cyclic fatigue being easier to track.
The increased reliability would have translated into increased patronage.
Joe Kyser, Joe Kyser Customs, CEO East Coast USA
Se Picture of se Titan.....
Ja, das war schon hart, ihm zuzuhören - als er sagte "thick shell" habe ich erst "sick" verstanden... wäre aber auch nicht wirklich falsch gewesen.
They would have to spend some time in a decompression chamber before they could ascend back to the surface .
39:10