A couple of old pro's doing a great job! This is REAL piloting, the FO/co-Capt. is doing a super job keeping the flying pilot informed of his progress on the approach and resetting the radios when required.
The beauty of this video was you had two elderly veteran Pilots commanding the airplane you don't see that much anymore oh, it was fun to watch him set up the approach good communication
Very well done. I used to fly an airliner (DO-328 turbo-prop) in and out of Aspen, One night I saw the runway straight down from the missed approach point and started our circle procedure, ended up going missed from 9,200 feet, fortunately we had a procedure for that too, but still, I've never been more scared in my life. And I agree with the other comment here, a sterile cockpit is not necessarily a silent cockpit, on an approach like the the VOR into Aspen, the other guy had better be talking to me, or we are going missed right now. Very well done guys.....and on steam gauges as well!!
@@user-wl6bw3jl4n I remember MAX well, we had an issue on a 328 one day at DEN, and our company got MAX to send a mechanic over to take a look at it for. Weren't your airplanes all dash 20s? Ours were dash 10s
Yeah, nothing wrong with the chatter. Sterile cockpit don't mean (silent cockpit) to keep your mouth shut , as long as the talk is about the approach, the airplane, performance, checklists, they can talk all they want. Many a pilot has not said enough, and they are no longer with us. This is an older airplane, so no fancy flying but stick and rudder. The cockpit layout looks so much like a Westwind, but the yokes, and the big red fuel shutoff, are Hawker all the way! Very professional, and thanks for sharing!
Been there done that, and it's no picnic. These guys were cool as could be. The hardest part was getting ready to shoot the approach into Eagle so quick after the missed at Aspen.
used to drive cab in Aspen back in the eighties. We made a lot of runs from Eagle to Aspen when the weather moved in. Sometimes when the entire valley was socked in we would have to go all the way over the pass to Denver. Good money on those runs.
Private jet from the '80s with 2 pilots that are older than any of us here, no glass cockpit, no ipads, old crt radar and no XM weather, those are real pilots!
Oh wow… so beautifully done. I am so blessed Mr.Nick is my Guru and has accepted me on his wings to create, New Chapter of my Life of Flying Cessna R172K N1058V…🤠
Watch, Listen and Learn! I dont know much about these specific pilots, but I suspect they got to be ripe old gentlemen aviators because they make wise decisions. Owner maybe inconvenienced by going to a divert airport, but better to safely divert to an airport than to land on time at your cemetery!
I'm sorry christpuncherr, which model Hawker requires 3 pilots for certification. When I'm flying, the last thing I need is someone other than the pilot flying and the pilot not flying talking at mins. and during missed.
Nothing wrong with this cockpit talk. They're going through the checklists, dealing with a very complex approach with multiple steep step-downs. No idle chatter. Just fine.
Living in Colorado it is really cool to see these birds come into Eagle! The runway is right off the I-70 freeway going Eastbound. I have no idea how these boys can do this with IFR! It's this....,OR Heaven forbid DIA!
Our company SOPs state that a MANDATORY missed approach must be initiated if (among others) "the success of the maneuver is in doubt". I'd be surprised if they didn't have a policy saying the same thing! Also our policy states that as soon as the words "Go around" are spoken on the flight deck, the PF will initiate a go around. That could be in the context "Should we go around?"
Haha.....I love these ol' boys. This was the way real flying was a few decades ago when you had to actually "fly" the plane and verbally communicate often on the approach. Love this old Hawker too.
I loved all of those "Steam Gages!" A REAL panel. Sign me. an "Old" Avionics Maintenance Guy" - MSgt. USAF, Ret. N-6395T (my favorite plane, however, is the old Piper Arrow - that's fast for an old guy :)
Interesting comments. I did not realize the guy with the camera was talking. Thought the two pilots were helping each other. Notice they commented at beginning of clip "A lot of snow." They seemed to be anticipating problems with landing in Aspen long before arrival.
MsJubjubbird Eagle is a piece of cake compared to some others here in CO. I've flown into just about every mountain strip in co with my B35 and a friends Turbo Charged BE95 Travel air. I don't F**k around with mountains, they've kill more than one of my friends over the last 20 yrs. My mountain flying philosophy is maintain 2000 feet above the highest peak near you....and thats why I'm still alive, and Sparky Emerson is dead.
+Sharpsdoublerifle absolutely right you are. a friend of mine an A-7D fighter jock at the time went into a mountain range in a c172 full loaded in the Caribbean in a hot humid day. they crashed all perished. density altitude is a killer! RIP
+Sharpsdoublerifle another crew o 10 crashed and all died in a mountain flying in very bad wx. they were flying low alt. in a MC-130E from the special OPS GROUP at Hulbert Field in eglin afb,fl RIP
British Aerospace HS.125-700A, Fort Lauderdale, Fla., Nov. 1, 2006-The Hawker landed gear-up at Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood International Airport because the flight crew failed to extend the landing gear, according to the NTSB. A contributing factor was the inoperative audible landing gear warning system. The pilot explained that he was distracted by trying to locate the runway for a visual approach. Although the copilot said he read out the landing-gear verification tasks from the checklist, the cockpit voice recorder did not record any challenge-response callouts. The airplane touched down gear-up and slid about 2,600 feet before stopping, causing substantial damage. The pilot’s U.S. commercial airman certificate (issued on the basis of his Mexican pilot license) was not valid for the carriage of people for compensation or hire. He did not hold a U.S. airman medical certificate and he had no type rating for the accident airplane or an instrument rating (the accident flight was IFR). He had not completed a pilot proficiency check within the preceding 12 calendar months. Further, the copilot held only a U.S. private pilot certificate (issued on the basis of his Mexican pilot license) that did not include an instrument rating. It was not determined that any of these flight crew discrepancies were directly related to the cause of the accident, but according to the FARs, the pilot was not authorized to act as pilot-in-command of the accident flight, and the copilot was not authorized to act as a required crewmember.
Swampy Dave Sounds like the insurance company is off the hook for the hull. Thought that a wheels up landing, while it can be an expensive mistake, doesn't write the plane off.
It's a question of suitable for economically feasible repair or write off as higher cost to repair than aircraft value. A 1978 125A might only be worth a quarter million and if it hit hard and bounced and hit signs and stuff and debris got sucked into engines there you go. Totalled.
On the VFR approach did I hear the Captain call for full flaps "Gimme some more flaps" TWICE and the distracting chatterbox in the middle mutter "ah, don't worry about it"? So the copilot did nothing until Cap tersely calls for them again, copilot hesitates, "Do you want it all?" "YEAH!" and Captain has to add in a humorous tone but through gritted teeth "Yeah, gimme ALL ya GOT!".
Where was the standard call outs on the missed approach? It doesn't matter that this is a private jet; standardization is for lack of better word, standard throughout the industry. No matter where they went for training, be it Flight Safety, Simuflite, etc, they are taught standardization and CRM. That goes for the observer/cameraman too. It almost sounds as though he is providing some instruction or guidance during the MAP.
+Mark Lowe Agreed. This crew needs emphasis on proper call-outs and flows. Way too much extraneous talking going on. They got the job done safely but it could of been done much easier and efficient with the proper call-outs.
This happens a lot at Aspen. It's known to be a really dangerous airport, especially in the winter time. Many crashes there, even at takeoff. So Eagle is way better and safer.
as a pilot that's completed hundreds of instrument approaches I can say the most dangerous thing, as well as annoying is someone in the cabin talking while im in a concentrated state of mind. This is a very dangerous time, especially around Aspen. I would have certainly shut him up, respectfully of course. There's a reason there are two pilots.... beechjets and other light jets are very complicated and have lots of things going on. It's guys like the cameraman that cause gear up landings, etc...
Not necessarily at all, depends on the aircraft. A three men crew is better just when it's a long-houl flight or one of the flying pilots is on training and/or checkride for example.
My first visit to Aspen was nearly my last, second time around we drove especially when we heard thirty plus fatalities have been recorded landing private aircraft only. Stick to Salt Lake City at least they have a real airport.
4:10 - we're not going to make it... If that was the case then why continue the approach? Go missed was spoken 3 times before any action was taken, and more concern was directed to the airport below them than cleaning up and climbing away
I am proud to say that I have flown with both Nick and Leroy! They both have decades of Hawker experience. All the best, Sam Swift
A couple of old pro's doing a great job! This is REAL piloting, the FO/co-Capt. is doing a super job keeping the flying pilot informed of his progress on the approach and resetting the radios when required.
He was setting the altitudes on the mode control panel.
So nice watching two professional pilots working together in perfect sync.
"Give me some more flaps" You look down at the flap lever and it is labeled, "A little bit" "Some more" and "give me all ya got".
i really like that first officer.. he is right on top of info flow and set up for captain. Good FO make flying so much easier. good going guys
Ray Harkins I suspect he’s a training captain. 4 bars.
Yeah they’re both good.
The beauty of this video was you had two elderly veteran Pilots commanding the airplane you don't see that much anymore oh, it was fun to watch him set up the approach good communication
Very well done. I used to fly an airliner (DO-328 turbo-prop) in and out of Aspen, One night I saw the runway straight down from the missed approach point and started our circle procedure, ended up going missed from 9,200 feet, fortunately we had a procedure for that too, but still, I've never been more scared in my life. And I agree with the other comment here, a sterile cockpit is not necessarily a silent cockpit, on an approach like the the VOR into Aspen, the other guy had better be talking to me, or we are going missed right now. Very well done guys.....and on steam gauges as well!!
SteveD328 same here; I flew D328s for a company based out of COS and DEN back in the 90s. Airline was called MAX (Mountain Air Express).
@@user-wl6bw3jl4n I remember MAX well, we had an issue on a 328 one day at DEN, and our company got MAX to send a mechanic over to take a look at it for. Weren't your airplanes all dash 20s? Ours were dash 10s
I recognize a Flight Safety checklist in the co pilots lap. Looks like there is a lot of flying experience in that Hawker. Great video. Thank you
Yeah, nothing wrong with the chatter. Sterile cockpit don't mean (silent cockpit) to keep your mouth shut , as long as the talk is about the approach, the airplane, performance, checklists, they can talk all they want. Many a pilot has not said enough, and they are no longer with us. This is an older airplane, so no fancy flying but stick and rudder. The cockpit layout looks so much like a Westwind, but the yokes, and the big red fuel shutoff, are Hawker all the way! Very professional, and thanks for sharing!
Been there done that, and it's no picnic. These guys were cool as could be. The hardest part was getting ready to shoot the approach into Eagle so quick after the missed at Aspen.
used to drive cab in Aspen back in the eighties. We made a lot of runs from Eagle to Aspen when the weather moved in. Sometimes when the entire valley was socked in we would have to go all the way over the pass to Denver. Good money on those runs.
i always enjoyed watching these 2 pilots thriving with this complex approach.
Private jet from the '80s with 2 pilots that are older than any of us here, no glass cockpit, no ipads, old crt radar and no XM weather, those are real pilots!
+Jimmy C No, they aren't. This is a classic example of an accident bound to happen.
How do you figure? What is the "classic example" you speak of?
And you're an example of an accident that DID happen. What an ignorant dipshit!
Enjoyable piece of flying and cooperation gentlemen!
This is an excellent video! Great CRM, good use of callouts. Should be used at FSI and SimuFlite for those of us doing initial and recurrent.
Beautiful panel, much more charming that the new ones, with their screens...!
As long as the plane eventually lands in 1 piece, they can miss all the approaches they want to. LOL
Sound like ranchers doin' some mountain flyin'. Havin' a blast!
That’s badass CRM and solid aviation going on.
Oh wow… so beautifully done. I am so blessed Mr.Nick is my Guru and has accepted me on his wings to create, New Chapter of my Life of Flying Cessna R172K N1058V…🤠
A total adrenaline flight pretty exciting like no other seen in UA-cam Bravo to you Gentlemen I take off my hat.
Smooth landing..!! Greeting from Venezuela...!!
Boy, these old timers sure know how to fly a missed approach outta Aspen and a visual into Eagle - yeehaw!
I’ve flown a Hawker into there many times. Nice job guys!
11 years later and still the only missed approach video into Aspen on UA-cam
Good ole boy pilots... lot of wisdom in that cockpit
A great team performance by two very professional pilots!
Watch, Listen and Learn! I dont know much about these specific pilots, but I suspect they got to be ripe old gentlemen aviators because they make wise decisions. Owner maybe inconvenienced by going to a divert airport, but better to safely divert to an airport than to land on time at your cemetery!
minimums reached? no visual contact with rwy.? Go Around!
Pluto Ice Aspen is a dangerous airport for inexperience pilots in bad weather.
Pluto Ice cold
They divert 'cause they reached MISSED APPROACH altitude without establishing visual cues with the runway.
I'm sorry christpuncherr, which model Hawker requires 3 pilots for certification. When I'm flying, the last thing I need is someone other than the pilot flying and the pilot not flying talking at mins. and during missed.
Great Vid guys.... Well done with great camera work.
fun ending...deep powder skiing. Thanks for the ride. Mike..W3PDR...PHL...73s
Busy but safe cockpit! good job guys.
Nothing wrong with this cockpit talk. They're going through the checklists, dealing with a very complex approach with multiple steep step-downs. No idle chatter. Just fine.
Living in Colorado it is really cool to see these birds come into Eagle! The runway is right off the I-70 freeway going Eastbound. I have no idea how these boys can do this with IFR! It's this....,OR Heaven forbid DIA!
this is my favorite ifr vid!
How many IFR approaches have your flown into Aspen? The runway ends at the face of a mountain; not an easy airport to fly a missed approach.
Great Video !!! thanx
Our company SOPs state that a MANDATORY missed approach must be initiated if (among others) "the success of the maneuver is in doubt". I'd be surprised if they didn't have a policy saying the same thing! Also our policy states that as soon as the words "Go around" are spoken on the flight deck, the PF will initiate a go around. That could be in the context "Should we go around?"
Haha.....I love these ol' boys. This was the way real flying was a few decades ago when you had to actually "fly" the plane and verbally communicate often on the approach. Love this old Hawker too.
Great Footage!!!
Pro's.
Flew that line myself late 70's, its a bump n grind.
I believe this aircraft landed with landing gear up, (due to pilot error), in Hollywood, FL in November 2006.
They really need to get a proper ILS in there. Localizer with DME altitude fixes is just not precise enough for that terrain.
You are correct. That’s why it’s called a non precision approach
that must of been one hell of a headwind.
Nice cockpit, but the yoke. Does it feel like holding a bicycle handle bars?
It must be sketchy to miss an approach into Aspen with all the terrain.
now that is some scary shit right there "GIMME ALL YOU GOT" lol
I loved all of those "Steam Gages!" A REAL panel. Sign me. an "Old" Avionics Maintenance Guy" - MSgt. USAF, Ret. N-6395T (my favorite plane, however, is the old Piper Arrow - that's fast for an old guy :)
great video guys.
Landed like a butterfly with sore feet..
Landed there in June.
Entirely different scenario.
That was great !!! excellent CRM.
Interesting comments. I did not realize the guy with the camera was talking. Thought the two pilots were helping each other. Notice they commented at beginning of clip "A lot of snow." They seemed to be anticipating problems with landing in Aspen long before arrival.
I did a lot of dead reckoning too in the 70’s . Sometimes I would follow freeways!
Excellent 👍👍 subscribed
Phenomenal. All you youngins watch and learn!
Yeah, watch and learn what not to do!!!
Several dozen, and you are correct, it's a bear of an airport to even land at, much less miss an approach.
It must be really unnerving when you're already rattled from missing at Aspen and your alternate happens to be an airport like Eagle.
MsJubjubbird Eagle is a piece of cake compared to some others here in CO. I've flown into just about every mountain strip in co with my B35 and a friends Turbo Charged BE95 Travel air. I don't F**k around with mountains, they've kill more than one of my friends over the last 20 yrs. My mountain flying philosophy is maintain 2000 feet above the highest peak near you....and thats why I'm still alive, and Sparky Emerson is dead.
+Sharpsdoublerifle absolutely right you are. a friend of mine an A-7D fighter jock at the time went into a mountain range in a c172 full loaded in the Caribbean in a hot humid day. they crashed all perished. density altitude is a killer! RIP
+Sharpsdoublerifle another crew o 10 crashed and all died in a mountain flying in very bad wx. they were flying low alt. in a MC-130E from the special OPS GROUP at Hulbert Field in eglin afb,fl RIP
awesome flight crew :) cool video. sorry u had to go missed after such a good approach :[
This is a 1978 British Aerospace HS 125A, 15 seat 2 engine bizjet, written off 17/10/06 in a wheels up landing at Fort Lauderdale.
..
Same crew ? Same chatterbox behind them distracting w/ gratuitous nonessential comments ? If so, there’s your probable cause !
British Aerospace HS.125-700A, Fort Lauderdale, Fla., Nov. 1, 2006-The Hawker landed gear-up at Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood International Airport because the flight crew failed to extend the landing gear, according to the NTSB. A contributing factor was the inoperative audible landing gear warning system. The pilot explained that he was distracted by trying to locate the runway for a visual approach. Although the copilot said he read out the landing-gear verification tasks from the checklist, the cockpit voice recorder did not record any challenge-response callouts. The airplane touched down gear-up and slid about 2,600 feet before stopping, causing substantial damage.
The pilot’s U.S. commercial airman certificate (issued on the basis of his Mexican pilot license) was not valid for the carriage of people for compensation or hire. He did not hold a U.S. airman medical certificate and he had no type rating for the accident airplane or an instrument rating (the accident flight was IFR). He had not completed a pilot proficiency check within the preceding 12 calendar months.
Further, the copilot held only a U.S. private pilot certificate (issued on the basis of his Mexican pilot license) that did not include an instrument rating. It was not determined that any of these flight crew discrepancies were directly related to the cause of the accident, but according to the FARs, the pilot was not authorized to act as pilot-in-command of the accident flight, and the copilot was not authorized to act
as a required crewmember.
Swampy Dave Sounds like the insurance company is off the hook for the hull.
Thought that a wheels up landing, while it can be an expensive mistake, doesn't write the plane off.
It's a question of suitable for economically feasible repair or write off as higher cost to repair than aircraft value. A 1978 125A might only be worth a quarter million and if it hit hard and bounced and hit signs and stuff and debris got sucked into engines there you go. Totalled.
On the VFR approach did I hear the Captain call for full flaps "Gimme some more flaps" TWICE and the distracting chatterbox in the middle mutter "ah, don't worry about it"? So the copilot did nothing until Cap tersely calls for them again, copilot hesitates, "Do you want it all?" "YEAH!" and Captain has to add in a humorous tone but through gritted teeth "Yeah, gimme ALL ya GOT!".
Where was the standard call outs on the missed approach? It doesn't matter that this is a private jet; standardization is for lack of better word, standard throughout the industry. No matter where they went for training, be it Flight Safety, Simuflite, etc, they are taught standardization and CRM. That goes for the observer/cameraman too. It almost sounds as though he is providing some instruction or guidance during the MAP.
I had the same thought. Not the most sterile cockpit specially flying into a challenging airport such as Aspen.
+Mark Lowe Agreed. This crew needs emphasis on proper call-outs and flows. Way too much extraneous talking going on.
They got the job done safely but it could of been done much easier and efficient with the proper call-outs.
+Desert Sky I would have to agree.
+Mark Lowe Again, I would have to agree.
I have never heard so many wrong statements in my whole life, and I have flown with females, males, steam gauges, and the latest avionics.
Looks like way more intense than flying the space shuttle ?
Maybe they would have made it if Clint Black wasn't standing over their shoulder with a camera.
PINCHME333 typical corporate crap
You know the wife is sitting in the back thinking "If he wasn't rich enough to fly me around in a Hawker, I'd leave his a$$."
Damn that’s about a 6 degree glide slope.
Who is waving the camera wildly around?
@the2008hambone It's good that you're just observing. 3 Hawker pilots talking their way through an actual approach-what a travesty.
Interesting video, but too much camera movement, zipping all over the cockpit continually - very distracting
moneylab camera work is appropriate if you know what you’re looking at/for on the panel.
4 bars on the left. 4 bars on the right.
nicely done...
Nice vid, tnx & 73's
That was fun!
Old farts are real pilots not an iPad babies. I salute them with all my respect.
... iPads weren't a thing yet.
Excellent CRM!
This happens a lot at Aspen. It's known to be a really dangerous airport, especially in the winter time. Many crashes there, even at takeoff. So Eagle is way better and safer.
These are the REAL Fly Boys...
"flaps is full...." enough said.
those are real pilots nice job thanks
I know, but my only point is that it's their choice and right. That should be left alone.
The pilots are probably just about as old as that airplane lawl...
as a pilot that's completed hundreds of instrument approaches I can say the most dangerous thing, as well as annoying is someone in the cabin talking while im in a concentrated state of mind. This is a very dangerous time, especially around Aspen. I would have certainly shut him up, respectfully of course. There's a reason there are two pilots.... beechjets and other light jets are very complicated and have lots of things going on. It's guys like the cameraman that cause gear up landings, etc...
Why did they miss?
CRM? We don' need no stinkin' CRM.
BTW, where ya'll based out of?
i wondered about that. I don't recall either of the three ever even speaking to the tower. Is that normal?
They did.
where is the missed approach?
If I was flying and had to call out for more flaps three times before the F/O responded, I'd be pissed...
good job Mr pilot low visibility good decession you number one good luck forever
Guy holding the came should keep his mouth shut. Even if he is a pilot. He's not flying. Unless the pilots ask him to speak.
Not necessarily at all, depends on the aircraft. A three men crew is better just when it's a long-houl flight or one of the flying pilots is on training and/or checkride for example.
My first visit to Aspen was nearly my last, second time around we drove especially when we heard thirty plus fatalities have been recorded landing private aircraft only. Stick to Salt Lake City at least they have a real airport.
Nuthin's gonna rattle these pros. Steam gauges! Imagine that.
What kind of plane was this?
HS-700
what hawker is that?
HS-700
What's my air speed
4:10 - we're not going to make it... If that was the case then why continue the approach?
Go missed was spoken 3 times before any action was taken, and more concern was directed to the airport below them than cleaning up and climbing away
They’re both Captain (4 bars on the uniform)
this looks like a training flight.
Camera work...Hmm...