Thanks for the review, Tom! If anyone watching is interested in the game, I just wanted to say that while the game is currently out of stock most places, a new printing should be available within a month or so.
This is the first social deduction game that appeals to me. I like that there are no roles to memorize, and that at the start nobody knows what's going on. I hate having to bluff while knowing less than the other players. This one sounds really clever and elegant and fun. It may take a few games to get into it, but since it goes so fast anyway I don't think that has to be problematic. Also, I like the theme. It allows for a bit of role playing. Are they going to frame me? Am I going to frame them? Of course not! We're all buddies here! Let's focus on the heist at hand. The art looks fine to me, and I really like the colours. I realise it may look worse in person, but my guess is that would have more to do with (lack of) graphic design.
I like the artwork as well as some other people in the comments, but the graphic design is my main issue. I would pay a talented artist to go back and redo the backgrounds of the cards and the font to make the graphic design really POP to help players better see things, and to give the game better table presence. I have it and played it a handful of times back to back with friends and we enjoyed it, especially since we were all new to it together. I think larger player counts also really benefit the game like most social deduction games. Thanks for the review, Tom!
I hate that my favorite gente/mechanic is considered crowded having less than 1/100th the number games than worker placement, for example. Maybe even 1/1000th.
@@FranciscoArena we don't have that many variations of Resistance/Avalon, to be honest. Still, there are huge differences between BSG, Dark Moon, Homeland, Resistance/Avalon, werewolf/mafia, chiyo's secret, burke's gambit, dead of winter, who goes there, Obscurio, deception: murder in hong kong, new angeles, etcétera. I agree with the werewolf/mafia problem, but the similarities between resistance-like games (like secret hitler) are still bigger than the difference between half of all worker-placement eurogames.
"Nobody" wants to play longer, more involved social deduction games, under the argument of "if I can have the same feeling in a shorter time (thanks to the Resistance/Werewolf lines of games), why would I want to play BSG/DoW/etc?". That's sad because I appreciate this genre of games :( I had the game New Angeles... I read the rules and really really wanted to play it! Took it into a lot of gaming events, how can I say... NOBODY wanted to give it a try! One day I just had to give up and sold it. DoW is also a hard sell for most groups around here... all groups have "that guy" who hates social dynamics for long games. Publishers follow the demand (or vice-versa, don't know), so most social-deduction related releases are quick/simple games. Longer, more involved social deduction style games just don't get print runs... and I've seen no one single release of it on the latest years. For some obscure reason, for today's state of market, social deduction means "short/easy games where someone is a traitor" and that's it.
@@AndiVx as far as Worker Placement goes, most of them are more of the same formulae: place workers > pick resources > improve some kind of engine > pick resources more efficiently > fulfill contracts for points How many games like this are released every year? A LOT! So, yes, I agree with you. It is WAY crowded. I guess the real matter is... as long as the sales goes... being crowded or not it doesn't matter.
This looks neat and agree 100% with the art feeling more like a prototype. Which is shocking given that the visual design for the previous two Jon Perry games were so polished (Time Barons and Air, Land and Sea).
I wish when Tom complained about components he would also factor in this is a $10 game! When I'm paying that little for a standout game experience, the component quality and art have extremely low priority. At least he overcame his bias, however. :)
This is great game...some people just don't get social deduction games so i don't think it is harder to learn than secret hitler or other simmilar games...artwork is horrendous...they need to redesign it asap...
I don't understand something from the review. You say for the Frame action "If all the cards but one are the same, then that person is framed. If that person is not the scapegoat, then the scapegoat wins" Everyone (except the scapegoat) knows who the scapegoat is at the beginning of the game, right ? So how is it possible for all players to frame the wrong scapegoat ? The only exception I see is if players don't have the right card for the real scapegoat and chose another card, and that has to be the same card for every player. Very unlikely... Am I missing something ?
You know who the scapegoat is, for sure! Unless it's you. And you don't know which it is. So you're feeling everyone out - not everyone will have the right cards at the beginning of the game, and if you're too obvious, the scapegoat will cut and run. Look, I felt the same way until I played the game and then I found that it just worked.
Thanks for the review, Tom! If anyone watching is interested in the game, I just wanted to say that while the game is currently out of stock most places, a new printing should be available within a month or so.
This game is ingenius
One of my favorites, great game!
Just an update: at the time I'm writing this, Scape Goat is currently back in print and for sale on Amazon.
Just played recently and i really loved the game. I'm surprised how this game works so well being a 3to6 players game.
Great game.
Jon Perry designs are great. In addition to his Air Land and Sea you mentioned, his Time Barons is a ton of fun.
This is the first social deduction game that appeals to me. I like that there are no roles to memorize, and that at the start nobody knows what's going on. I hate having to bluff while knowing less than the other players.
This one sounds really clever and elegant and fun. It may take a few games to get into it, but since it goes so fast anyway I don't think that has to be problematic.
Also, I like the theme. It allows for a bit of role playing. Are they going to frame me? Am I going to frame them? Of course not! We're all buddies here! Let's focus on the heist at hand.
The art looks fine to me, and I really like the colours. I realise it may look worse in person, but my guess is that would have more to do with (lack of) graphic design.
I like the artwork as well as some other people in the comments, but the graphic design is my main issue. I would pay a talented artist to go back and redo the backgrounds of the cards and the font to make the graphic design really POP to help players better see things, and to give the game better table presence.
I have it and played it a handful of times back to back with friends and we enjoyed it, especially since we were all new to it together. I think larger player counts also really benefit the game like most social deduction games. Thanks for the review, Tom!
I loved the art! It’s what made me pick up the box to read the description and ultimately buy it.
Been wanting to pick this one up, love the idea of everyone being paranoid!
I agree. Looks off but plays so well. Such a fun experience.
It looks like something new in the crowded genre of social deduction. I'll look forward to it.
I hate that my favorite gente/mechanic is considered crowded having less than 1/100th the number games than worker placement, for example. Maybe even 1/1000th.
@@AndiVx maybe they _feel_ crowded because most of them are just remakes/variations of Werewolf and Resistance.
@@FranciscoArena we don't have that many variations of Resistance/Avalon, to be honest. Still, there are huge differences between BSG, Dark Moon, Homeland, Resistance/Avalon, werewolf/mafia, chiyo's secret, burke's gambit, dead of winter, who goes there, Obscurio, deception: murder in hong kong, new angeles, etcétera.
I agree with the werewolf/mafia problem, but the similarities between resistance-like games (like secret hitler) are still bigger than the difference between half of all worker-placement eurogames.
"Nobody" wants to play longer, more involved social deduction games, under the argument of "if I can have the same feeling in a shorter time (thanks to the Resistance/Werewolf lines of games), why would I want to play BSG/DoW/etc?". That's sad because I appreciate this genre of games :(
I had the game New Angeles... I read the rules and really really wanted to play it! Took it into a lot of gaming events, how can I say... NOBODY wanted to give it a try! One day I just had to give up and sold it. DoW is also a hard sell for most groups around here... all groups have "that guy" who hates social dynamics for long games.
Publishers follow the demand (or vice-versa, don't know), so most social-deduction related releases are quick/simple games. Longer, more involved social deduction style games just don't get print runs... and I've seen no one single release of it on the latest years.
For some obscure reason, for today's state of market, social deduction means "short/easy games where someone is a traitor" and that's it.
@@AndiVx as far as Worker Placement goes, most of them are more of the same formulae:
place workers > pick resources > improve some kind of engine > pick resources more efficiently > fulfill contracts for points
How many games like this are released every year? A LOT! So, yes, I agree with you. It is WAY crowded.
I guess the real matter is... as long as the sales goes... being crowded or not it doesn't matter.
Why is the box of Genoa on the wall behind Tom? It looks like it's the old edition. Or is a new reprint coming?
This looks neat and agree 100% with the art feeling more like a prototype. Which is shocking given that the visual design for the previous two Jon Perry games were so polished (Time Barons and Air, Land and Sea).
I personally fell in love with the artstyle instantly.
I like the look of the game :-)
I wish when Tom complained about components he would also factor in this is a $10 game! When I'm paying that little for a standout game experience, the component quality and art have extremely low priority. At least he overcame his bias, however. :)
I have to be honest, I don't think a lower cost game should have "poor art". Find an artist in the price range that does a good job, then!
In which order do I need to put the locations?
This is great game...some people just don't get social deduction games so i don't think it is harder to learn than secret hitler or other simmilar games...artwork is horrendous...they need to redesign it asap...
How does it scale?
Pretty well, actually!
I don't understand something from the review. You say for the Frame action "If all the cards but one are the same, then that person is framed. If that person is not the scapegoat, then the scapegoat wins"
Everyone (except the scapegoat) knows who the scapegoat is at the beginning of the game, right ? So how is it possible for all players to frame the wrong scapegoat ? The only exception I see is if players don't have the right card for the real scapegoat and chose another card, and that has to be the same card for every player. Very unlikely...
Am I missing something ?
You know who the scapegoat is, for sure! Unless it's you. And you don't know which it is. So you're feeling everyone out - not everyone will have the right cards at the beginning of the game, and if you're too obvious, the scapegoat will cut and run. Look, I felt the same way until I played the game and then I found that it just worked.
first
the game seems interesting!