This is so true. I am so scared to go into advanced mathematics but after researching it it seems right for me... Something about the beauty of mathematics is just crazy to me and nothing beats the feeling of the confusion I get when I see some crazy math being explained. As a highschooler it just is a shame that nobody has really told any of us this.
I am a math student, and kescores is exactly right. High school mathematics has nothing to do with art, and a person interested in art is likely to find it less interesting for that reason. However, advanced mathematics would very much reward the person with a vivid imagination. All the logic and formulas is just the baby stuff that almost anyone can learn, even if it's not a walk in the park.
How would you recommend a high school student even get a taste of advanced mathematics? I mean I could watch all the 3blue1brown videos on the channel but isn't it more about discovering? What would I even do so I'm not overwhelmed when I start college? (Hopefully at NU!!)
That's because mathematics education is completely corrupt, and in school, what teachers call "talent in math" is really the ability to memorize formulas. Students who rightly view (shown this perspective) mathematics as a dry, memory-based subject unfortunately go in other directions while students who start to embrace the twisted perspective of mathematics being a "skill", utterly pointless, yet necessary one (that's what they've been told) and continue "learning".
Surely that depends on what it means to prove? A computer could of course print out a proof of the irrationality of sqrt2. I guess what you're saying is that a computer could also check the steps of a provided proof of the irrationality of sqrt2. But no computer can be fed the input 'prove sqrt2 is irrational' and give an output, which seems to me like the sensible definition of proving something, rather than proof checking.
I have been trying for about 2 years now to get a meeting with some mathematicians or some geniuses without success. Many of these people are letting down the children.
nice to see Harold Shipman getting a gold medal at the begining. i dont agree with what you did harold, but if someone puts in their best effort who am i to object.
Okay. I was just interested in your claim that a computer could prove the irrationality of sqrt2 in practice. These proof techniques involving the application of each inference rule are inherently non-polynomial, so they're probably always be useless. But I think totally different methods may become available in the future (basically modelled on human inference).
While it works one way (I study physics - maths and music are both hugely important in my life) I honestly don't think it works the other, and believe me when I say I've met countless students.
I'm not saying it would be useful or efficient, just that it would be possible. Maybe a human has to assist it by giving it a starting point close to the proof, but it's still possible to do it either way. If you want to talk about things that are easy to do, then I agree it's not very easy for a computer to do.
I find that extremely hard to believe..! You're saying you can input something like 'prove that there an infinitude of primes which are 1 mod 4' are it will output a proof?
Im a very good drawer, im 15, and my art teacher loves my exotic drawing and lots of nature drawings, but im so bad at math. haha. But, I dont disagree with your opinion, have some friends that are really good in math and art.
Analysis is an art, artist analyze the world, they just don't quantify the patterns and impressions they observe. Mathematician do, but then again, most people aren't artists and aren't mathematicians.
That ain't true about the four colour theorem. It had to check hundreds of cases. This isn't the same thing as generating a proof from axioms using laws of inference. You could only do extremely basic things in algebra in sensible time spans. The amount of time it would take to prove something as basic as (-1)^2 = 1 would be colossal.
I studied linguistics, and now I have decided to study math. And let me tell you that a lot of the same skills are involved in math as in the arts, particularly in linguistics and learning a language. If you are good in language you are usually good in math, it's the same part of the brain too!
Creativity and math? Please explain this, not for the sake of being right. I want to do maths but I just don't find it to be suitable for my creativity.
Creativity in mathematics isn't different than creativity in another domain. You need to come up with a solution, proof, theorem, or definition that's novel, surprising, and useful. However, this is very difficult in mathematics since mathematics is very old and domain of analysis. All the mathematics you learn was developed at some point and did not exist prior to a certain need or observation. The field still has many open problems and unknown vistas. However, mathematics requires a lot of study and attention, as well as ability; thus, most people will not do anything original in mathematics that's widely useful and valuable. Most people won't do anything that's original and useful to themselves, because logic underpins mathematics, oftentimes, someone's originality is just wrong. It's a lot like playing music, the creativity is a result of practice and study, but it's not just practice and study. Yet, if you want to be creative, then you need to do a lot of difficult mathematics and see what happens. You won't have the opportunity to do anything original and meaningful unless you attempt to do something valuable in a risky and imaginative way. You can't apply your imagination to mathematics unless you seriously study it
@rkyeun So do you believe that showing off that award ceremony adds anything other that reinforcing their seemingly superior position in thought? It doesn't add anything but an ego separation in status. And its just as reinforcing for the awarder's as the awardee's. (Feynman resigned from such committees) Like I said, I take Feynman's POV 100%. And...this should be done IN PRIVATE at best. Its propaganda. it has no place in nature's truths.
nothing is perfect.. and even if we tried making it anyways, it would take to the end of time just to to plan the perfect one ^;^ but i do agree with your point of making an extra effort, especially with the sound. But i think they should cut smalltalk down as much as possible, so there is more room for the important stuff, rather than making it "pretty" just look at South Park, Robot Chicken or Code Monkeys, to see that fx HD (high definition) is overrated.. or videogames.. or other art pieces
Probably the same reason they teach academic writing and grammar to scientists and engineers! Develop some humility toward your science and respect for those that work in other areas...or, just go read Ayn Rand or something.
@rkyeun LOL you are just like him. I hope someday you'll see how meaningless that is. Let me ask you something? Do you believe the Pope is more than a mere man? Do you believe his wardrobe adds divine reverence to his presence? you'll prob say "no" here, but I bet if observed from a distance you are memorized! Just like a superbowl ring. (When will we ever learn?)
This is so true. I am so scared to go into advanced mathematics but after researching it it seems right for me... Something about the beauty of mathematics is just crazy to me and nothing beats the feeling of the confusion I get when I see some crazy math being explained. As a highschooler it just is a shame that nobody has really told any of us this.
What are you doing now in your life?
@@rajdeepsingh26 graduated with applied math and cs now working in the parks service doing data science. Was a software engineer for a bit
@@a_ghoul wow great, I'm in 11th grade and I'm too interested in taking higher maths would you like to give me any advise for future
@@rajdeepsingh26 go for it and don't be afraid to pivot your choices if you want! Good luck. Math can help with a lot of cool jobs
@@a_ghoul thank you🙏 for that
as a Mathematics major, this video helped me analyzing my career when i graduate. I think mathematician is now back on the table as a possibility
how'd it go?
I am a math student, and kescores is exactly right. High school mathematics has nothing to do with art, and a person interested in art is likely to find it less interesting for that reason. However, advanced mathematics would very much reward the person with a vivid imagination. All the logic and formulas is just the baby stuff that almost anyone can learn, even if it's not a walk in the park.
How would you recommend a high school student even get a taste of advanced mathematics? I mean I could watch all the 3blue1brown videos on the channel but isn't it more about discovering? What would I even do so I'm not overwhelmed when I start college? (Hopefully at NU!!)
That's because mathematics education is completely corrupt, and in school, what teachers call "talent in math" is really the ability to memorize formulas. Students who rightly view (shown this perspective) mathematics as a dry, memory-based subject unfortunately go in other directions while students who start to embrace the twisted perspective of mathematics being a "skill", utterly pointless, yet necessary one (that's what they've been told) and continue "learning".
we benefit much from this lecture thank you
Actually, it's an art, and a science; so, you just got OWNED!
I want to know why so many mathematicians HIDE.
there exist automated proving programs which work at a level equivalent to a math undergrad
Eg. Isabelle
We need to help in every way.
Surely that depends on what it means to prove?
A computer could of course print out a proof of the irrationality of sqrt2.
I guess what you're saying is that a computer could also check the steps of a provided proof of the irrationality of sqrt2.
But no computer can be fed the input 'prove sqrt2 is irrational' and give an output, which seems to me like the sensible definition of proving something, rather than proof checking.
I have been trying for about 2 years now to get a meeting with some mathematicians or some geniuses without success. Many of these people are letting down the children.
Helpful lecture.
Is that picture in the beginning taken from "A Serious Man"?
Project E.D.E.T (Excellent Development of Elementary Teachers)
Is there a conspiracy theory to not make many things clearly audible......However great lecture heard it many years back wanted to watch it again
my middle school teacher was a Mathematician
nice to see Harold Shipman getting a gold medal at the begining. i dont agree with what you did harold, but if someone puts in their best effort who am i to object.
Math is an art. OWNED!
It's not true that you can't prove the irrationality of sqrt(2) with a computer. You can. A language such as CoQ can do a constructive proof of it.
Would it kill someone to use a shotgun mic?
I 100 percent agree with that!
I cannot get most mathematicians to participate in problem solving programs,which will encourage children to be brave.Children need role models.
Okay. I was just interested in your claim that a computer could prove the irrationality of sqrt2 in practice.
These proof techniques involving the application of each inference rule are inherently non-polynomial, so they're probably always be useless. But I think totally different methods may become available in the future (basically modelled on human inference).
Point taken.
While it works one way (I study physics - maths and music are both hugely important in my life) I honestly don't think it works the other, and believe me when I say I've met countless students.
You were talking about computers actually being able to prove things, though. i.e. before the end of the universe.
pic from "a serious man" film :)
I'm not saying it would be useful or efficient, just that it would be possible. Maybe a human has to assist it by giving it a starting point close to the proof, but it's still possible to do it either way. If you want to talk about things that are easy to do, then I agree it's not very easy for a computer to do.
I love mathematics, yet I don't know if I'll ever grasp hardcore mathematics, I hope so tough!
Present day mathematicians are not as brilliant and determined like early mathematicians.
If you ever reedit this video, please use the Picture-in-Picture format. The 45degree off angle is so annoying. Just my opinion.
I find that extremely hard to believe..!
You're saying you can input something like 'prove that there an infinitude of primes which are 1 mod 4' are it will output a proof?
It took 10 years
Im a very good drawer, im 15, and my art teacher loves my exotic drawing and lots of nature drawings, but im so bad at math. haha. But, I dont disagree with your opinion, have some friends that are really good in math and art.
People pursue art for more reasons than being bad at other fields
Mathematics is much more analytic than art.
Analysis is an art, artist analyze the world, they just don't quantify the patterns and impressions they observe. Mathematician do, but then again, most people aren't artists and aren't mathematicians.
Square root two is an element of the largest countable subset of the real numbers! Can anybody guess what subset I am referring to?
That ain't true about the four colour theorem. It had to check hundreds of cases. This isn't the same thing as generating a proof from axioms using laws of inference.
You could only do extremely basic things in algebra in sensible time spans. The amount of time it would take to prove something as basic as (-1)^2 = 1 would be colossal.
I studied linguistics, and now I have decided to study math. And let me tell you that a lot of the same skills are involved in math as in the arts, particularly in linguistics and learning a language. If you are good in language you are usually good in math, it's the same part of the brain too!
Not social behaviour,Just show me a mathematician who is willing to solve problems in public.Bring that person come.
15:43 A sample of beauty...
No one in this world would be unemployed,and un-educated.
Audio quality is HORRIBLE.
I don't see why arts students would be any better or worse than your average person at maths.
what do you mean by HIDE ?
english is not my first language... haha can someone help me with this?
Are you talking about the social behaviour ?
mexican jose adem greatest mathematican..im not surprised because aztec indians created math in the first place..
@rkyeun Ok so we agree at least on some level. If the Pope's ability to decieve is within your mental grasp, than you get my point easily.
What mathematicians actually do... recieve gold medals lol
But we should not be antisocial.
Creativity and math? Please explain this, not for the sake of being right. I want to do maths but I just don't find it to be suitable for my creativity.
Creativity in mathematics isn't different than creativity in another domain. You need to come up with a solution, proof, theorem, or definition that's novel, surprising, and useful. However, this is very difficult in mathematics since mathematics is very old and domain of analysis. All the mathematics you learn was developed at some point and did not exist prior to a certain need or observation. The field still has many open problems and unknown vistas. However, mathematics requires a lot of study and attention, as well as ability; thus, most people will not do anything original in mathematics that's widely useful and valuable. Most people won't do anything that's original and useful to themselves, because logic underpins mathematics, oftentimes, someone's originality is just wrong. It's a lot like playing music, the creativity is a result of practice and study, but it's not just practice and study. Yet, if you want to be creative, then you need to do a lot of difficult mathematics and see what happens. You won't have the opportunity to do anything original and meaningful unless you attempt to do something valuable in a risky and imaginative way. You can't apply your imagination to mathematics unless you seriously study it
I am the most serious person in the world.Trust me.
Mathematical Revolution
Angle Trisection Solved
Pi = 3.15470053837925152901829756100955…
@kescores or they're not capable of it
lol math students spend time studying and arts people dont want to. thats what i think
A heavy dose of math is used at pixar.
obviously not a math student
@rkyeun All great reasons to pursue science too! Just look what it did for medicine in America?
@rkyeun So do you believe that showing off that award ceremony adds anything other that reinforcing their seemingly superior position in thought? It doesn't add anything but an ego separation in status. And its just as reinforcing for the awarder's as the awardee's. (Feynman resigned from such committees) Like I said, I take Feynman's POV 100%. And...this should be done IN PRIVATE at best. Its propaganda. it has no place in nature's truths.
I didn't get the proof lol
nothing is perfect.. and even if we tried making it anyways, it would take to the end of time just to to plan the perfect one ^;^
but i do agree with your point of making an extra effort, especially with the sound. But i think they should cut smalltalk down as much as possible, so there is more room for the important stuff, rather than making it "pretty"
just look at South Park, Robot Chicken or Code Monkeys, to see that fx HD (high definition) is overrated.. or videogames.. or other art pieces
That's a romantic idea, and I wish it were true. But in my experience it just isn't.
ahh got it.
Probably the same reason they teach academic writing and grammar to scientists and engineers! Develop some humility toward your science and respect for those that work in other areas...or, just go read Ayn Rand or something.
Why are you trying to teach university mathematicians to arts students?
Most arts students are hopeless at maths and science, thats why they do arts!
I don't want to do 20lbs. I want to do you!!!!
@darkunorthodox You poor soul...unless you got a medal too?
god i am glad i am done with math!
the medal ruined his speech,unfortynately bad desicion
:youtubecomments:
@random19911004 trolololololo
@rkyeun LOL you are just like him. I hope someday you'll see how meaningless that is. Let me ask you something? Do you believe the Pope is more than a mere man? Do you believe his wardrobe adds divine reverence to his presence? you'll prob say "no" here, but I bet if observed from a distance you are memorized! Just like a superbowl ring. (When will we ever learn?)