when I heard "chip inside the cartridge" I had to think of printer cartridges.. like in after 10000 successful joints that thing goes cold forever regardless of the condition of the heater or tip.^^ Thanks for the review !
I've been really happy with my CV5210, cant say enough good things about it. At first I thought it was expensive and didn't bother considering it and had decided on buying the PACE , was just about to purchase and THAT DAY your video came out on the ads200 and It looked pretty lackluster to me. it so I I gave up considering saving money and went with the metcal. Now, after using it for awhile, I wish I would have got it years ago. Its well worth its price if you solder everyday.
I tried using the ADS200 again the other day for some soldering, but it's pretty terrible in terms of performance. I can't understand the hype! The board wasn't particularly demanding, but it takes an extra second to do each solder joint.
I tried to see if it could slide off, but I think it might be glued so probably the only options are a sleeve that goes over the top or possibly some kind of exchange service for it to be remanufactured. I did think the light ring could be at the other end of the handpiece just before the cable strain relief to eliminate the problem.
Mine wore out to the point where it was almost completely detaching. I tore it out and put some O-rings where the grip used to be. Used 11mm OD 7mm ID. Needed 30+ for a standard handpiece and 10+ for the ultrafine. I know I'm 3 years too late but hope this helps.
Metcal painter "dang, I've run out of black paint".......nips out to local car spares store, comes back with Ford Burnt Orange, colour code Y-TRUCK (1974)......."sheesh, that'll have to do".
Depending on the cartridge selection, the spec for variance between the displayed temp and actual is ±11-15°C. The accuracy on the cartridge itself is different - for the 700 series heater, temperature range is 371°C to 413°C.
It would be interesting if you had the chance to test Thermaltronics TMT-2000S at some point. As few others, I too were thinking about getting the Pace ADS200, until your earlier video took that one off the table. Thanks!
Could you please tell me if there are any differences in the user experience between the CV 5200 and the MX5200, besides the so-called verifiable soldering system? Or are there only minor differences, such as faster heating up? Based on the parts you've disassembled, the power section is basically the same as the MX5200😆
Received my CV-5210 last month as well. Can't believe I'd stuck with traditional tip Weller's for so long. Though, it's reassuring knowing not only myself initially surprised by those stand magnets. The Type-A receptacle as a USB device is unfortunate. Perhaps there's some plan to act as host to a thumb drive. To that, the ability to update firmware from thumb drive would be excellent. My only critique, otherwise, is the cryptic visual interface. The three selection mute without obvious description. User number represented as integer in menu, but as group of stars in main screen. Certainly, there's little reason to regularly access the menu, but that's all the more cause to forget symbols and functions over time.
I thought the same thing, but the FTDI chip suggests no thumb drive firmware updates. The menu is definitely a little too cryptic in areas, I have some suggestions which I may pass on.
This seems too complex. Seems like Metcal already had the best system. Thus, I wonder if this is just a ploy to stay one step ahead of the competition by marketing new features which are protected by new patents?
I'd be interested to see if the UI on production units has changed. The UI for the pc software gives me a 90s era vibe haha. As for the station itself, looks to be built like a friggin tank! Does the housing get even remotely warm? Seems like overkill and a half. The CV stuff is a neat gimmick. I've got a feeling they could've gotten that to work a whole lot better if they just stuck an actual temp sensor in the tip. But that double plug on the cable is a bodge. They should really change that because that's going to be a point of failure.
The PC software looks to be an NI Labview GUI hence that classic look. Would be nice to see something that looks more up to date, but the poor choice of location for the USB port means it's a bit clunky to have plugged in most of the time anyway.
i can confirm a year on and nothing has really changed. Ive just taken delivery of mine, running latest firmware and the cv system is more flakey then Steves unit here. mine will go green but when checking software shows a fain. sometimes it beeps and then not. I really dont see how anyone can use this in production. The graph also shows next to no usefull information. overall poor UI but great soldering performance which in all honesty is what really matters
Interesting but a complete gimmick even for manufacturing boards. Hand soldering assemblers wouldn't pay attention to the light or looking at the display. People make errors when distracted or tired, don't think this will stop that. Most of the manufacturing errors are picked up during a soak test but cold joints can be intermittent.
BTW, I'd like to see you take a crack at designing a 13.36 MHZ, 80w power supply for Metcal handpieces. Without all these extra features though. Thanks.
Nice iron, but LOL at the orange and power supply design from an aesthetic point of view only. The design moto, build this like a tank, also make it look like it belongs on a tank.
This seems like a solution in search of a... user, really, not even a problem? You need a very specific technique adjusted specifically to this thing's likings, even if otherwise your habits/techniques are already set up for excellent joints. You sure as hell couldn't _teach_ people to solder using this thing, since you have to already have a pretty good feel for what you're supposed to do for it to give you a good reading. Having to swap tips for specific parts is also a nightmare, especially during production.
Cartridge swapping is actually fairly commonplace, though most production facilities that use some manual assembly are likely to have separate stations for the higher thermal mass stuff. I sort of had similar thoughts, but compliance monitoring is becoming very commonplace so this is where systems like this fit in. Some detailed guidance on what the error means in the software would be useful - at the moment, there isn't really anything in the literature so it can be puzzling why something failed. When it's set up properly, it works well though.
@@sdgelectronics Hoe does compliance monitoring normally work without this station? This is the first station I've heard of that has this feature. Do they normally physically inspect each joint after the person soldering has done it's job? Or is it more automated like making photo's and a piece of software judges whether the joints are good enough? Google couldn't really give me an answer.
@@jeffrey308 most systems just lock the temperature or limit the usage of cartridges. The PCBs would normally be inspected, but problems often don't show up for a while.
Try some of that double sided tape that is suggested for replacing phone screens and such (Tesa 61395 Tape) for those feet, I think it should hold pretty well for an easy fix that can still be removed if you ever wanted.
interestingly i just soldered a new hdmi port on a playstation 4 slim MB. These are notorious to get off and solder back down correctly as its such a huge ground plain on these, which is half the reason why a bought this sysytem as the jbc really did struggle even with a larger tip. this does it with ease, however when trying it with the cv system, i notice it passed all 4 solder joints however when checking the other side of the board solder did no flow all the way through, so something to look out for
It appears that they are taking away the accuracy of the eye which personally can be as good or even better than technology. The human mind can determine a lot better so far as I can see also it takes away the skill to work in all different environments. A good review and it appears to be good, but I wouldn't waste my money on it.
Using non-standard USB connectors is bloody awful - why in the heck did they install what appears to be a USB-A cable when it's designed to be connected to a PC? Wouldn't a USB-B or even USB-C not fit? I'm sick of ferreting around through my box of weird cables when I need to hook stuff up to my PC; even digital camera manufacturers stopped doing this about 15 years ago.
The event didn't register because the thermal load on the tip is not enough to cause a significant temperature change. A tip with a much smaller thermal mass should be used
If it does what you need, there's no justification to upgrade. If you're doing lots of soldering these high performing cartridge based systems can significantly speed up board assembly.
I understand the goal of this system, but the operator should not be guessing why the joint is bad! you'll have the operator trying different approaches, which is the opposite of a consistent work flow, and can lead to blindly following the green led overlord. A more explicit message than a go/no-go icon, and proper documentation/training should be available. An explanation of why the joints failed in the video would be a great addition by the brand representative.
Well at least this soldering iron looks like it is worth the money. at $850 it makes a lot more sense than the other Gucci soldering irons that do not perform as well.
@@alexstone691 ya i still see the appeal of the old one. If you are able to find one used for cheaper it would be a no brainer if you have the money to spends on a tool that expensive.
@@Ender_Wiggin I've seen few on ebay for like $200, although i don't have that kind of money and the shipping would cost me an arm and a leg i think its a good deal if the station is ok condition
@@sdgelectronics unfortunate, I know how you were talking about the quality of the CV station. Does the CV station have better build quality than the MX station?
There's two quite substantial 1/3 doughnut magnets in the stand. The stronger the magnet, the more the ferromagnetic core becomes saturated dropping the temperature further.
When they decided that a soldering iron needs a faster uController than what it's soldering I said fine, but I draw the line at memory in tips, that's just too much.
If there are people sticking their fingers into your soldering equipment around you, consider going for a walk to buy cigarettes and never show up there again!
I think that choice spans back from the original design of the SP200 and early MX500. The handpieces are to some extent interchangeable on the 13.56 MHz systems
That's a really great innovation! Maybe now the associated PC software can be used to monitor the technicians building the cheap Chinese electronics junk so that they can get rid of the ones that have no clue what they are doing who always seem to have assembled the units that I purchase!
Mini-din?? Seriously??? I have a strong opinion that it's the worst connector ever, ever! The bulky long plastic part makes sure it regularly bends over and unplugs itself, and then the fine delicate pins don't align well and may get bent. And it's difficult to orient to plug it in.
I think this technology is bullshit, therefore I just bought an MX instead of a CV set. New tech, more expensive, and less compatible. Can you tell me how can get away from the GND fault function? It is very inconvenient when using it on the go. Thanks
That is a useless technology. I see no point in using validation of solder quality. What better validation then human eyes can be. You can see the solder with eyes, why would you need a led bult to announce you something that already can be seen.
@@sdgelectronics I get that but it doesn't seem reliable enough even for that job. Glad I don't work on a production line as that thing would end up flying out of a window (which is also probably why I don't and never will work on a production line).
You are spending too much time with solder stations that are intended for assembly lines and people who like to spend money on things they dont need. The aixun video you posted is osom but lacked the safety aspect. And possibly run the curve tracer on that Alpha & Omega mosfet to check if its genuine for example. It´s (also) osom to see cheapo being reviewed that actually works and does not try to kill someone.
I disagree, I think the review videos on the soldering stations has been great. I sub'd to the channel because of the great insight on the soldering stations he reviewed. As someone who solders daily for a career it was very helpful in comparing my tools and seeing if I could get better performance to make my work (life) easier.
when I heard "chip inside the cartridge" I had to think of printer cartridges.. like in after 10000 successful joints that thing goes cold forever regardless of the condition of the heater or tip.^^
Thanks for the review !
"You need to buy a new conical tip to keep soldering with your chisel tip"
My thoughts are whether so much complexity is really necessary for soldering? Very detailed video. Nice
I've been really happy with my CV5210, cant say enough good things about it. At first I thought it was expensive and didn't bother considering it and had decided on buying the PACE , was just about to purchase and THAT DAY your video came out on the ads200 and It looked pretty lackluster to me. it so I I gave up considering saving money and went with the metcal. Now, after using it for awhile, I wish I would have got it years ago. Its well worth its price if you solder everyday.
I tried using the ADS200 again the other day for some soldering, but it's pretty terrible in terms of performance. I can't understand the hype! The board wasn't particularly demanding, but it takes an extra second to do each solder joint.
Somebody who knows what he's talking about, thanks a lot!!
Hello from Ukrainian nice soldering station every engineers dream
Those rubber grips do wear out - I get through about 1 a year, so a pain if you can't replace it.
I tried to see if it could slide off, but I think it might be glued so probably the only options are a sleeve that goes over the top or possibly some kind of exchange service for it to be remanufactured. I did think the light ring could be at the other end of the handpiece just before the cable strain relief to eliminate the problem.
@@sdgelectronics From memory I don't think Metcal don't sell the rubber sleeves on their own - you have to buy the aluminium bit as well.
@@mikeselectricstuff Just had word from Metcal's UK sales manager that the grip for the CV handpiece is now available as a consumable.
Mine wore out to the point where it was almost completely detaching. I tore it out and put some O-rings where the grip used to be. Used 11mm OD 7mm ID. Needed 30+ for a standard handpiece and 10+ for the ultrafine. I know I'm 3 years too late but hope this helps.
I think the earth check is for EMC, not safety
Metcal painter "dang, I've run out of black paint".......nips out to local car spares store, comes back with Ford Burnt Orange, colour code Y-TRUCK (1974)......."sheesh, that'll have to do".
It certainly stands out!
I dont care much for colors when thinking about tools but It actually looks pretty nice on the bench.
@@ecurepair It's definitely not everyone's cup of tea. I actually don't mind it in orange, but the black MX-5200 looks very sleek.
Depending on the cartridge selection, the spec for variance between the displayed temp and actual is ±11-15°C. The accuracy on the cartridge itself is different - for the 700 series heater, temperature range is 371°C to 413°C.
Is this for soldering impaired folk?
It would be interesting if you had the chance to test Thermaltronics TMT-2000S at some point. As few others, I too were thinking about getting the Pace ADS200, until your earlier video took that one off the table. Thanks!
Could you please tell me if there are any differences in the user experience between the CV 5200 and the MX5200, besides the so-called verifiable soldering system? Or are there only minor differences, such as faster heating up? Based on the parts you've disassembled, the power section is basically the same as the MX5200😆
Looking forward to the high power handpiece comparison.
For some reason the design reminded me of a prop from Dr Who in the 70s!
Received my CV-5210 last month as well. Can't believe I'd stuck with traditional tip Weller's for so long. Though, it's reassuring knowing not only myself initially surprised by those stand magnets.
The Type-A receptacle as a USB device is unfortunate. Perhaps there's some plan to act as host to a thumb drive. To that, the ability to update firmware from thumb drive would be excellent.
My only critique, otherwise, is the cryptic visual interface. The three selection mute without obvious description. User number represented as integer in menu, but as group of stars in main screen. Certainly, there's little reason to regularly access the menu, but that's all the more cause to forget symbols and functions over time.
I thought the same thing, but the FTDI chip suggests no thumb drive firmware updates. The menu is definitely a little too cryptic in areas, I have some suggestions which I may pass on.
This seems too complex. Seems like Metcal already had the best system. Thus, I wonder if this is just a ploy to stay one step ahead of the competition by marketing new features which are protected by new patents?
I'd be interested to see if the UI on production units has changed. The UI for the pc software gives me a 90s era vibe haha. As for the station itself, looks to be built like a friggin tank! Does the housing get even remotely warm? Seems like overkill and a half. The CV stuff is a neat gimmick. I've got a feeling they could've gotten that to work a whole lot better if they just stuck an actual temp sensor in the tip. But that double plug on the cable is a bodge. They should really change that because that's going to be a point of failure.
The PC software looks to be an NI Labview GUI hence that classic look. Would be nice to see something that looks more up to date, but the poor choice of location for the USB port means it's a bit clunky to have plugged in most of the time anyway.
@@sdgelectronics Do they provide a male to male usb cable??? cause i can see people plugging two usb ports together
@@alexstone691 No the USB cable didn't come with it.
i can confirm a year on and nothing has really changed. Ive just taken delivery of mine, running latest firmware and the cv system is more flakey then Steves unit here. mine will go green but when checking software shows a fain. sometimes it beeps and then not. I really dont see how anyone can use this in production. The graph also shows next to no usefull information. overall poor UI but great soldering performance which in all honesty is what really matters
Interesting but a complete gimmick even for manufacturing boards. Hand soldering assemblers wouldn't pay attention to the light or looking at the display. People make errors when distracted or tired, don't think this will stop that. Most of the manufacturing errors are picked up during a soak test but cold joints can be intermittent.
BTW, I'd like to see you take a crack at designing a 13.36 MHZ, 80w power supply for Metcal handpieces. Without all these extra features though. Thanks.
Nice iron, but LOL at the orange and power supply design from an aesthetic point of view only.
The design moto, build this like a tank, also make it look like it belongs on a tank.
This seems like a solution in search of a... user, really, not even a problem?
You need a very specific technique adjusted specifically to this thing's likings, even if otherwise your habits/techniques are already set up for excellent joints.
You sure as hell couldn't _teach_ people to solder using this thing, since you have to already have a pretty good feel for what you're supposed to do for it to give you a good reading.
Having to swap tips for specific parts is also a nightmare, especially during production.
Cartridge swapping is actually fairly commonplace, though most production facilities that use some manual assembly are likely to have separate stations for the higher thermal mass stuff. I sort of had similar thoughts, but compliance monitoring is becoming very commonplace so this is where systems like this fit in. Some detailed guidance on what the error means in the software would be useful - at the moment, there isn't really anything in the literature so it can be puzzling why something failed. When it's set up properly, it works well though.
@@sdgelectronics Hoe does compliance monitoring normally work without this station? This is the first station I've heard of that has this feature. Do they normally physically inspect each joint after the person soldering has done it's job? Or is it more automated like making photo's and a piece of software judges whether the joints are good enough? Google couldn't really give me an answer.
@@jeffrey308 most systems just lock the temperature or limit the usage of cartridges. The PCBs would normally be inspected, but problems often don't show up for a while.
Just what the world needs: a soldering iron that constantly screams "you're doing it wrong!"
It's worse than decorating with the wife! :)
😂😂
Try some of that double sided tape that is suggested for replacing phone screens and such (Tesa 61395 Tape) for those feet, I think it should hold pretty well for an easy fix that can still be removed if you ever wanted.
Have you seen what the thumbnail for this says because the time stamp obscures the "ysis" in analysis? Mr Williams looketh on.
Only certain platforms get automatic solder joint anal.
I prefer the long videos!
interestingly i just soldered a new hdmi port on a playstation 4 slim MB. These are notorious to get off and solder back down correctly as its such a huge ground plain on these, which is half the reason why a bought this sysytem as the jbc really did struggle even with a larger tip. this does it with ease, however when trying it with the cv system, i notice it passed all 4 solder joints however when checking the other side of the board solder did no flow all the way through, so something to look out for
It appears that they are taking away the accuracy of the eye which personally can be as good or even better than technology. The human mind can determine a lot better so far as I can see also it takes away the skill to work in all different environments. A good review and it appears to be good, but I wouldn't waste my money on it.
Using non-standard USB connectors is bloody awful - why in the heck did they install what appears to be a USB-A cable when it's designed to be connected to a PC? Wouldn't a USB-B or even USB-C not fit?
I'm sick of ferreting around through my box of weird cables when I need to hook stuff up to my PC; even digital camera manufacturers stopped doing this about 15 years ago.
The event didn't register because the thermal load on the tip is not enough to cause a significant temperature change. A tip with a much smaller thermal mass should be used
I am still using a 45 year old Weller TCP1, am I out of date? Should I sell it as a valuable museum piece and buy something modern?
WTCP-S here
If it does what you need, there's no justification to upgrade. If you're doing lots of soldering these high performing cartridge based systems can significantly speed up board assembly.
I understand the goal of this system, but the operator should not be guessing why the joint is bad! you'll have the operator trying different approaches, which is the opposite of a consistent work flow, and can lead to blindly following the green led overlord. A more explicit message than a go/no-go icon, and proper documentation/training should be available. An explanation of why the joints failed in the video would be a great addition by the brand representative.
All the joints I saw fail were perfectly good joints! What actually failed was the Rube Goldberg soldering iron station!
End boss of all irons
Metcal king 🤴
Well at least this soldering iron looks like it is worth the money. at $850 it makes a lot more sense than the other Gucci soldering irons that do not perform as well.
Honestly compared to the original with big as transformer, i like the original more as all switching dies at one point
@@alexstone691 ya i still see the appeal of the old one. If you are able to find one used for cheaper it would be a no brainer if you have the money to spends on a tool that expensive.
@@Ender_Wiggin I've seen few on ebay for like $200, although i don't have that kind of money and the shipping would cost me an arm and a leg i think its a good deal if the station is ok condition
Do you know if you can use the mx hand piece on the cv system?
No, it won't work I'm afraid.
@@sdgelectronics unfortunate, I know how you were talking about the quality of the CV station. Does the CV station have better build quality than the MX station?
I really like the thumbnail
Could you try brining a magnet to the handle, im interested does it need to be specific strength magnet or distsnce or any will do
There's two quite substantial 1/3 doughnut magnets in the stand. The stronger the magnet, the more the ferromagnetic core becomes saturated dropping the temperature further.
@@sdgelectronics Ohh, so when are we getting diy temperature control with sliding magnets :D
@@alexstone691
Is warranty removed when repainting it?
Every soldering company has to claim a color.
Way over kill! I have no issues with my Ksger and custom firmware.
Finally. A real soldering station. :-)
When they decided that a soldering iron needs a faster uController than what it's soldering I said fine, but I draw the line at memory in tips, that's just too much.
Кабельное подключить- будет показывать?)))
Wow clever
If there are people sticking their fingers into your soldering equipment around you, consider going for a walk to buy cigarettes and never show up there again!
I thought I detected Steve quickening his pace to get more validated solder joints - a Marxian insight of the technology?
USB port is the wrong type for connecting to a computer, should be type B.
Impresive it is definetly a much eficient soldering station then the JBC DDE unit . I think we can now say this is the station wath defet the mx 5200.
For something at that price point, they couldn't spring for BNC connectors? Oh, how I absolutely hate F connectors.
I think that choice spans back from the original design of the SP200 and early MX500. The handpieces are to some extent interchangeable on the 13.56 MHz systems
That's a really great innovation! Maybe now the associated PC software can be used to monitor the technicians building the cheap Chinese electronics junk so that they can get rid of the ones that have no clue what they are doing who always seem to have assembled the units that I purchase!
One horrible looking solder station, prototyped in clay first by Stevie Wonder.
"This unit is based.." awesome! "..on.." oh
Mini-din?? Seriously??? I have a strong opinion that it's the worst connector ever, ever! The bulky long plastic part makes sure it regularly bends over and unplugs itself, and then the fine delicate pins don't align well and may get bent. And it's difficult to orient to plug it in.
The DIN and coaxial F have locking latches. Should be at least that small bit harder to unintentionally unplug.
The connectors are locking, so certainly should not detach by themselves. A nice Lemo connector would complete the quality feel though... ;)
It must be a color blind person that came up with that paint color ... It looks silly as hell.
orange color. designer is definitely from Netherlands lol
idk, looks brutally oldschool to me, i like it.
I've been soldering for over 50 years and that soldering iron has no clue what a good or bad solder joint is! Total Junk in my opinion!
I'm pretty sure your technique was just fine. This system just makes no sense.
I’ll stick with my ts100. Solders better and cheaper.
Cheaper, yes. Better? Not even close.
but why?
I mean - at that price it is not exactly a viable training device
I think this technology is bullshit, therefore I just bought an MX instead of a CV set. New tech, more expensive, and less compatible. Can you tell me how can get away from the GND fault function? It is very inconvenient when using it on the go. Thanks
That is a useless technology. I see no point in using validation of solder quality. What better validation then human eyes can be. You can see the solder with eyes, why would you need a led bult to announce you something that already can be seen.
Seems a pointless waste of money, who at Metcal thought this was a good idea?
It's designed for process control and training. It doesn't have the same use for hobbyists really.
@@sdgelectronics I get that but it doesn't seem reliable enough even for that job. Glad I don't work on a production line as that thing would end up flying out of a window (which is also probably why I don't and never will work on a production line).
$1000 and you have a barely useable gimmick that doesn't even detect you're soldering half of the time
You are spending too much time with solder stations that are intended for assembly lines and people who like to spend money on things they dont need. The aixun video you posted is osom but lacked the safety aspect. And possibly run the curve tracer on that Alpha & Omega mosfet to check if its genuine for example. It´s (also) osom to see cheapo being reviewed that actually works and does not try to kill someone.
I disagree, I think the review videos on the soldering stations has been great. I sub'd to the channel because of the great insight on the soldering stations he reviewed. As someone who solders daily for a career it was very helpful in comparing my tools and seeing if I could get better performance to make my work (life) easier.