Here I must disagree. Menno could have maintained the high ground but instead he descended to Greg's level. The ad hominem was unnecessary and unhelpful. Greg has been open about his past and I don't think it disqualifies his message. By way of analogy, I also follow cycling and some of the biggest and most credible anti-doping advocates are former dopers. The supps stuff is not only irrelevant but petty- would you impugn Derek's credibility on the same grounds? More to the point, Menno's actual argument- openness good, gatekeeping bad (nay, the path to fascism!)- is facile. Should we put out there information that might facilitate bomb-making, suicide, eating disorders? I mean, it's up to each individual what they do with it! To be clear, I'm not advocating for suppressing facts or evidence but there is a nuanced debate to be had about how to present things responsibly. Admittedly Greg didn't make a meaningful contribution to that debate but, disappointingly, neither did Menno.
The entire commentary YT space does it, not just Greg. I mean, did you see the whole recent thing with critical and Logan Paul? You tubers use each other as foils, they use drama and controversy to generate views and engagement, because it’s what people want and respond to. If it didn’t get views and attention, they wouldn’t keep doing it. And most of them know and understand this and don’t take any of it personally. Most of them 😂 I guess no pt menno
Don't agree. Year ago, Menno came to the opposite conclusion of the exact same study on Instagram - very disappointing that he's flip flopping like this and not even addressing his prior interpretations. One of them must be wrong.
Menno, you're reading the article incorrectly. The steroids were not fake. Selling steroids is illegal in Canada, therefore, to get them in the country a common tactic is to import them under a fake name so they don't appear as steroids at customs. I believe personal use is legal in Canada, but when you're selling things, you tend to important more than amounts for personal use and that would get flagged. Theres a lot of stories of this online from the late 2000s to mid 2010s. Im not saying youre wrong for making a response video by any means, and what greg did was illegal. But what you are describing is not correct. to the point of 'Viagra would also get flagged', not the point. I'm not saying it was a cleaver move, it obviously got caught or we wouldn't be talking about it. The point is that was the method of diversion and there's not evidence substantiating that the steroids were fake
@@jeffpatterson5126 i dont dispute that, but if he's importing under a pretend pharmacy or business that's certified to handle drugs then its gonna be less suspicious id think to get Viagra than steroids. Regardless, that's not even the point, im not saying its not still illegal, and honestly its still a dumb move. my point is that saying the steroids were fake is incorrect. fake labels to masquerade the steroids as something else is not the same as having things claiming to be steroids and not be.
@@jeffpatterson5126 it seems like he was pretending to be a fake pharmacy or company certified to import such drugs. and even if it was a stupid thing that also would instantly get caught, thats not the point. im not saying hes cleaver, it simply doesnt imply that the steroids would have been fake.
I think you misread that article, unless I misread it. It seems that the fake part was the brands being used to covertly sell steroids (i.e. packaging it as Viagra but in reality it has steroids), not that the steroids were fake.
@@BlindBosnian , improve a lot. Selling viagra as a test is like being scum-bag. Selling test as a viagra - yeah, criminal, but honest one. Does it make any sense?
That doesn't make sense to me. If you're going to package steroids as something else, Viagra is the most foolish choice you could make. Everyone knows it and knows it's prescription-only in Canada, so it's just as likely to get flagged by customs as testosterone. I assume it was something with similar ingredients being sold as Viagra, which is the most common form of counterfeit. That means it might have had the intended ingredients (or not), but either way, it was counterfeit. A replica Gucci bag is still a fake Gucci bag. Disclaimer: This is all based on my reading of the border agency's statement. I'm not making new criminal accusations.
In your last video, you addressed the question of steroids and longevity by referencing a study comparing elite athletes taking steroids to the general population. Greg was right to point out the apples-to-oranges design of that study and the dangers of drawing conclusions from it. Why not inform your viewers more about the topic instead of going all in on the ad-hominem? You accuse Greg of having sold fake steroids, yet the 2012 article you quote as evidence at 4:00 actually says no such thing.
Nah, he picked the right ones. He's a pure attention monger to keep the pipeline flowing into the funnel. He has enough good information/empathy (real or fake) that he can bait people once you are there (hes good at captivating an audience). Its also why people like him, Thomas DeLauer etc... seem to flipflop on every position they have all the time. Shotgun enough takes and enough people will see the ideas they like, get confused by the contrary info, buy in for clarity, and eventually give them money.
comparing with a statistical analysis non-natty top athletes and the general public it’s not even comparing apples and oranges- it’s comparing apples and squid.
exactly. It's totally irrelevant to Greg's point that steroids are harmful. And I'm not even a Greg fan but this whole thing annoyed me and I'm disappointed in Menno for trying to derail the conversation in defense of Mike's choices. Mike is an adult. He can and isn't required to defend his own choices.This doesn't make Mike look better all. He already said he knows the risks and determined they're worth it for what he intends to get out of it. There should be nothing else to talk about.
@@LovingSoul61 yes. Also, having beef online- you need to know how to do it. Whether you like him or not, Greg is a master at it. If you don’t know how to respond to online beef or trolling, stfu. it’s 10000 times better for you.
Greg literally explained in his video that the comparison was between an athlete on roids with a general population's life expectancy, and this is exactly the point in saying that it is not too honest to compare these two groups, since it would be better to compare athletes to athletes And what about the point that in the studies from the original video it was the elite athletes which were studied (soccer players, bike riders etc) who are not recreational bodybuilders which actually are the target demographic for the video?
Menno did great here. I was actually angry watching the Greg video having watched what Menno's steroids video ACTUALLY said. Also the way he has been going after mike israetel seems so unnecessary. Thanks Menno🙌
@@tm3578-t5x , yeah. I mean, i'm huge fan of Mike. And if he criticize somebody - i would love to see viable arguments, not rude nonsense jokes about voice.
He isn't 'going after Mike Israetel'. Like or dislike Gregg, but all he did was expressing his concerns, which serves as a warning to those in a similar scenario (older age, average genetics & high fitness goals) who want to walk the same path.
@@the_notorious_baslol Greg hates Mike, he doesn't have any "concerns" about him. He made like 4 videos about him in a month, he's just milking his name for money.
I was with you until you brought up something from 12 years ago. Are people not allowed to turn their life around? He’s admitted to selling steroids before.
@@jeebsy718yes he does lfmao what about the NDA he made ally sign? Or that he lies about only getting caught with trt when he was caught with homebrewed large amounts in customs and at much higher than trt levels of test for his cycling contest...or that he bought dereks formulations for supplements then skimmed some ingredients with his "turk builder" for extra profit margins😂😂😂😂
Atleast 12 years ago he sold shit that works now he is full time snake oil salesman selling cook books for 200$ and useless shit supplements that dont work. Also im fucking tired of juiced gorrilas who have profited from roided bodies now preaching against using steroids. Greg made himself known with juice advice and looking like demi-god all while being incredibly strong. If it wasnt for steroids he wouldnt be where he is now. Guys remember in life you always do ABC. Always Be Cheating. Because if you wont someone else will and that person will be ahead of you while you will think that you are somehow better than others just because you didnt take the neccesary steps to get ahead in life.
Please. First, not all of the shady things Greg has done are from over a decade ago. He still does this; he just found new venues to do so. And it's one thing to meet someone at 37 and note how much they've changed since they were in their early 20s. But when the starting point is 37, it's VERY unlikely they've changed - at 49, they're just making more of an effort to not get caught again.
Maybe these are my Cuban genes showing, but I think these are two different things: 1. Strict government censorship that prevents people from talking about the pros of steroids. 2. Influencers choosing not to talk about the pros of steroids because they don't want to needlessly influence people to take steroids. I have a feeling Greg Doucette wasn't arguing for #1, he was arguing for the moral value of #2. I don't have any issue with your steroid video, I just don't think you've properly rebutted Greg's criticism. Even stranger, Greg Doucette says he quit steroids? Isn't he using TRT? That's synthetic testosterone. That's about as steroidy as steroids get.
@@RIASSENPAI and? Are you trying to say that 140mg a week is the same as an abusive dose like 3000mg a week? Because that’s around what most of these guys take, sometimes a lot more. nasser el Sonbaty was on 5000mg of test, just test! That wasn’t even his full stack. TRT is not at all the same as abusing steroids.
he has to be on trt since he abused steroids in the past though hes only on 140mg a week which means he has abouit the testosterone of a guy in theire early 30s or so so you can in no way say he is n steroids, plus it is doctor perscribed
@@thyestes5538TRT is still steroids. So technically Greg is lying whenever he says he’s not on steroids anymore. And given his past, I highly doubt Greg is honest about “only being on TRT”.
Your interpretation of ‘steroids with fake labels’ as ‘fake steroids’ calls into question your English reading comprehension, Menno. You rushed this video to ‘get back at Greg’, and it shows with the recitation of well-known failings of Greg - at this point a worn out tactic. A simple ‘Greg has misrepresented my video’ with supporting evidence is all that was needed.
@@Mudkipz123 if Greg would kindly send me one of his sports cars now to repay me for a mild defence of his video, it would certainly be appreciated. But seriously, I actually like Menno and Mike’s content much more than Greg’s, but there is never any good reason to use ad hominem arguments. Just makes you look petty and distracts from the real issues at hand.
that would be very cool to see, but I still think Mike should retire and start cruising for a while, stop blasting. We don’t want to see another tragedy.
All of the things you say Greg didn't understand about your video are things he explicitly spoke about in his video. Meaning he absolutely did understand all that you said. Also the add homonym attacks about him selling gear and terk, don't really work to discredit him when he has openly spoken about these things many times in the past. You aren't exposing him like you think you are.
If you watched the 3 videos, you know what's going on. Either there's a comprehension deficit and Greg failed to understand what Menno said in the original video, or in his response video he was just pretending not to have understood it for the drama and views, which kinda is his MO so it wouldn't surprise me.
Exactly this, and Menno is even twisting things around to make his narrative work in menno's own favor. What menno does here is truely manipulative narcissistic behaviour. And to top it off he calls Greg a Nazi and a Communist as well. Really low from menno if you ask me.
@@user-ii7xc1ry3x menno was explaining that steroid users have a similar life expectancy to people that don't use steroids. Reason being that steroids alone will decrease life expectancy but that negative effect is offset by these people generally having a healthier life style. This is precisely what Greg responded to but Menno is acting like Greg overlooked these points
@@user-ii7xc1ry3x It looks like Greg did understand. The whole point was why are we comparing elite athletes to the general population, when in reality, not everyone on steroids is an elite athlete or taking doctor prescribed doses and following a prescribed cycle plan from a doctor. If this study was done doing an appropriate comparison to the average person, there would a different conclusion. I understand that Menno is just talking about the results of the study and what it entailed, but with that type of information, you have to look at both sides.
I feel like the point Greg was trying to make is the idea that telling people steroids are bad for you but not THAT bad if you have other healthy lifestyle choices isn’t directly glorifying steroids but it is what people that are considering steroids would like to hear as opposed to the constant (and justified) negativity surrounding steroids. Neither of you are wrong per se but it doesn’t help the steroid epidemic anymore telling people athletes who do steroids and live a healthy lifestyle live longer than those who don’t take steroids but don’t do exercise
Greg has tons of videos that can be easily perceived as glorifying steroids. I've followed him for a long time and seen many videos that are mainly talking about the benefits of steroids, although he's really moved into primarily anti-steroid content recently overall. The thing is there were many nuances in the studies Menno talks about. Menno explained it in the video, which I saw before Greg's video and knew instantly Greg was clipping a lot out of context. I strongly recommend you watch Menno's original video (it's only like 6 minutes) because he explains all these points, as well as the fact that he said another way to look at it, is that even mild, temporary use of steroids in the past can offset that benefits of being healthy your whole life. And there was an increase in younger deaths amongst the athletes (mainly due to high suicide rates) but that cardiovascular disease was the main cause of death overall. The reality is I watch both these guys and they both have great information. But hands down Greg knows controversy drives clicks and you would have to be a fool to think he doesn't engage in all forms of "bait" style content, while heavily pushing his supplements. Greg has even bragged about how many views he's received off the backlash of his videos, and subsequent responses. I love Greg's content, he's extremely talented, but it's obvious he's a very driven, self serving individual when it comes to money, success and the "win at all costs" mindset. That shouldn't surprise anyone.
I think the major issue with the original video is that you used a study that compared elite athletes to the general population. Greg definitely makes things more dramatic than they are, but I do think you need to be careful how you discuss something so extreme.
Yes that's a point left unadressed - - that a video based on a single study which in turn is about a highly non representative fraction of the population is of not much informational value for the general population, and it certainly doesn't show "how many years steroids take off your life" in those general terms. Let's be honest, it was click-baity too.
They litterally compare siblings in that study - and the findings are that steroid use reduces life span as much as all the healthy things athletes do, put together - so a lot. They do not compare elite athletes to the general population, per se. They just see that even elite athletes don't live longer than the general population (with crappy lifestyles) when they go on gear. In conclusion, gear is very bad for you.
Menno got pissed…unfortunately that’s exactly the type of clout Doucette’s interested to promote…he’s probably recording three new videos about it right now…
i didnt think anyone getting pissed..he articulated documented facts and as a responsible man who works to give us quality information so that we can make informed choices...unlike greg who make a video if someone in fitness industry had new hair growth in their @$$
@@avinashmuraleedhar I’m sure Greg has the same sincere opinion of the video - but as Dr. Mike once said, the guy has so many faces he doesn’t even know who he is anymore…
Menno you sir are a CLASS act, top shelf information, not censored, properly referenced no BS. We need more scientists in this area & less whiny shady dealing wankers!
All those things you said about Greg he HIMSELF has been thoroughly been open about ... So your point is ? (smearing I gather) Also, I agree with him on the part about you comparing steroid users to an unhealthy population. Compare apples to apples. Healthy lifestyle people vs. healthy lifestyle people who abuse steroids, there lifespan is likely shorter. So when comparing equally, steroid abuse DOES reduce your lifespan.
@@NAVEENCHAURASIYAA I've never heard such a dumb argument in my life lmao. I guess to you, all crimes are equal, init? I guess people who have committed crimes have no value to give to society beyond their crimes, have no knowledge to share etc. Bozo
Menno and Greg both took things out of context to make their points. I watch them both and make my own conclusions. I would pay to see a live debate. Greg would, not sure Menno would take that offer
I always say with knowledge comes power. And u miss represented the information. Does anyone not already know I sold steroids? And no they were not fake. Ask any of my former clients. So again misrepresenting the facts. And Schofield did post coaching personal coaching plans that he was not permitted to do. I’ve already addressed every single point in these videos nothing here is new every few months somebody makes another video pointing out the same exact thing over and over and so hopefully Mike isreatel also can address this since surprisingly or coincidentally he’s in my DM’s asking me a bunch of questions that he wants to have in writing. Perhaps you’re asking him to get some information from him to do more videos. Trying to make me look bad does not change the fact that you made it look like steroids don’t shorten your life by comparing people elite athletes who takes steroids to the general population of lazy people. You know you did wrong and trying to point the finger and saying oh yeah well greg is actually worse than me doesn’t make you right.
Just watched the video, and I have to say that Menno, you are not demonstrating your usual objective approach. Although the way that news article was written was confusing, I believe you might have misinterpreted due to your own biases against coach Greg as others commenting said they interpreted something completely different. it's not like you're quoting the Associated Press or official court documents with this CBC article, I question why you're so certain in yourself in this regard. It's clear you didn't do your research about the Turkesterone events as you would have found that the only company which actually decided to take accountability and address this problem after it was made known to them was HTLT, while other major companies continue to sell bunk Turkesterone.
you look plenty bad yourself without the help of Menno, greg. did the steroids lower your intelligence that much or is it just so easy to become a teacher in america than you don't need any comprehension skills whatsoever? if you don't think Menno is harsh enough on steroids when he says even small use will take years off you life and that he himself wouldn't take them, then that's a you issue.
Indeed it doesn’t, but for Greg, a known steroid user, to criticize Menno based on a misinterpretation of his stance on the subject is a major ass hypocrite move.
@@swagbag7951 no he should stfu and quit throwing stones in his glass house. You and I both know there’s clearly a massive middle ground between promoting steroid use and dragging an industry colleague (I’m using this term extremely generously) based on your incorrect interpretation of what the colleague said. Of course, I’m giving Greg the benefit of the doubt that he just misinterpreted what Menno actually said and not pulling his typical bullshit and just stirring the pot.
@menno, A year ago, on Instagram, you disagreed with the studys findings. You stated that steroids do indeed cause more damage than the health benefits of exercise. Curious about the contrary opinions you posting on Instagram VS UA-cam?
Depends highly on the dose and the compounds you're taking as well as other factors. While there might be no safe way to use PEDs, there certainly are really harmful ones.
As someone who uses gear, I refuse to be naive to the damage it’ll do to my heart. Will I be taking years off my life? Possibly. Hopefully the damage isn’t too great. I’m not competing using insane dosages but I don’t think any dose doesn’t have potential negative side effects. But that’s my choice to use them.
Your response was good until you got on the personal attacks. It will never be a good look to attack someone personally, especially with half assed information like you did here. Not only has Greg addressed each point you raised, they also all happened for different reason and at different stages of his life. You're putting out information about someone without the context and yet acting like you're taking both the moral and intellectual high ground. It is ironic that in the same video where you defend providing the public with all available information, you go ahead and provide multiple headlines without context, with the sole purpose to mislead the audience and achieve your agenda of making Greg look bad 'cos you didn’t like him calling you out. You're not much different from the rest of the internet drama people as much as you try and pretend like you are.
was he selling steroids in fake packaging to conceal the steroids? Or was he selling something that would not be defined as steroids and marketing it as real? This is an important distinction to make. I am left confused.
2:53 Great message! Keep the drama out of one's life, when possible/reasonable. Like you mentioned sometimes it's good to defend, but not every person's opinion deserves one's attention.
You can tell that most of you don’t watch Greg’s videos at all. Whether or not you like him, he’s 100% right here. Steroid abuse will affect you later in life. We all know that. This clown knows it.
I love UA-cam beef. Although, literally every example you gave was something he was open about. He never lied about any of it. His business and marketing is real annoying, but he's honest. I never, for one second, thought your video was irresponsible. You're like a robot that just gives "da facts," and you're not very opinionated on how to interpret most data. So I think you're both just mad and, I'll be honest, I'm here for it. Very excited for Greg to escalate this into a hot war. I'll be sellinf shirts thay say "I support Greg" and "I support Menno" because I'm a capitalist.
why did you put a strawman in your thumbnail though? just because someone else did something irresponsible (that they openly acknowledge as such) doesn't mean you didn't also do so and you are also using fake claims (saying he sold fake steroids) to attack his character instead of addressing the actual point that was being made- that you suggested steroids aren't actually that bad for you
Dude I watched that video and didn't even know it was about you. It seemed to be more about the study than you. And here you are bringing up old shit like a high school girl.
i agree with most of this but the 'we know how those societies ended' list, including the current people's republic of china, makes no sense. china hasn't 'ended'. it's still going strong. there's also a few other societies that controlled information that are still going strong as well (north korea, vietnam).
First of all the study is talking about elite endurance, athletes, using performance enhancing drugs like cardarine, EPO and other PPAR type drugs. No endurance athlete is going to be taking Tren or high doses of any anabolics because the muscle gain is not advantageous and the pumps make it impossible to run/cycle. Athletes and their drugs (and especially doses) are different from bodybuilders. You are talking nonsense here again. You don’t know what you’re talking about
You're taking thing out of context here Menno, I thought you're better than this. He used and sold steroids, but now h knows better and is against them, because they're bad for you. He went above and beyond to test his supplements, which no one does, and it turned out it had no Turkestesterone, it had other ecdysteroids. His other product has Turkesterone.
You telling people using a some steroids is not that bad is like when chips companies tell people to have a portion, except when you had a little bit you wanna have 3 bags.
Great video and i agree on educating people and not being afraid to put out nuanced information. Btw, Greg already publicly admitted and talked about his drug use and the period when he was selling steroids which he regrets. So we all agree on that being a crappy thing to do (including Greg). No problem with putting it out again in this video, just a bit of extra info.
If you got to the point that you are taking a little bit of hard drugs, what makes you think that you can now resist taking more and more when you have already succumbed to temptation in the first place?
There is some irony in the other person being the one using the information irresponsibly (by misrepresenting it). I think the first part of this video where you share your ideology in sharing the data as it is, is valuable.
No he didn't, in a ntushell he just said that the sentiment driving the witholding of information for people's "own good" is authoritarian and tyrannical, and used historical regimes as examples to contrast against the liberties western society enjoys
I watched your video when you posted it and it was unbiased, factual, and did not sensationalize the research. I can’t figure out how Doucette drew the conclusions he did from your video. He must see you as a credible threat (to what, I’m not sure) to want to pick a fight with you. The truth is on your side. Keep fighting the good fight.💪🏻
Menno hit the nail on the head criticizing Greg about his paternal domineering. Our world has gotten too comfortable instructing others how to live their life and what morals they should live by.
I never understand the business angle. I like Greg but his stuff is too expensive for me (same for the RP app by the way, i'm a fan of dr. mike too). There are people out there who can afford to spend the money on something they value. Do people not actually consider that's greg's target audience? You're telling people to embrace free thought when it comes to deciding on steroids, but you're suggesting people shouldn't be spending so much money on greg's stuff? People are free to do what they want. I thought it was unfair to compare the guy to fascists and then critizise him for how he is legally and freely running his own business.
Just see how many of those pro wrestlers from the 1980s are no longer with us today! Ravishing Rick Rude dropped dead at 40. Hercules Hernadez died in his sleep at 44. Mr. Perfect passed away at 46, etc., etc., etc.
They were saying that the gear was labeled "Cipher Farm", a 'fake' pharmaceutical company, or a real UGL (underground lab i.e. illicit steroid compounding pharmacy) depending on how you look at it. UGLs buy raw powder-form steroids from mostly Chinese bulk vendors, then compound/brew them into vials, tablets, or capsules. At that point they need to be labeled, and UGLs create a brand to use for labeling so that they can establish a reputation and brand recognition. Rather than directly counterfeit existing pharmaceutical companies' names and products, it is common practice with UGLs to have their own branding and labeling with names like '___ pharmaceutical', or '___ biocare' etc. For tadalafil (Cialis) they label products things like 'Cipher Cialis' or just the straight up trade name along with their own branding, and either way the border patrol would probably consider it to be counterfeit Cialis. Whether Greg was brewing up his own gear from raws, or buying and reselling UGL gear, I have no idea. However I think one of those two options is most likely the reality of the situation rather than Doucette selling 'fake gear'.
@1:50-2:14 I agree with Menno. You can't deny someone information because 'they might' abuse it. If teen kids want to have sex, they are better off having a discussion thats why we have sex ED, if people want to try drugs (they eventually will) its better off talking to someone whose taken them and suffered the bad parts so they can make better decisions themselves. etc. People will always do taboo things and they will make bad choices if no one talks to them.
Part of the problem with the data is that it is comparing steroids that were available some 50 years ago and not modern PEDs. We see bodybuilders dropping dead left and right and abuse of modern PEDs, and also diuretic drugs, are obviously playing a huge factor.
Just common sense. Why don’t the million and billionaires take steroids? Why do you see ex older bodybuilders having to undergo heart surgery, hormone replacement and extensive joint surgeries if steroids are not only healthy for you but extend your life?
Lets clear the air. Menno is NOT a medical doctor. He is NOT an endocrinologist nor an epidemiologist. He reviewed the literature. Based on this he proclaims steroids are safe. This is a joke. It is irresponsible of Menno.
Greg admits to being intentionally obtuse to stir drama and get views. Sadly this is where the youtube algo and the average viewer have led us. On the bright side, now you can have drama with Greg and get a bunch of easy views too!
Awesome Response! Treating people like they are actual adults/responsible tends to lead them to act that way more. Trying to manipulate and keep them in the dark/fearmonger/restrict rarely has good results. I mean just consider the fact that much steroid usage is Illegal. How is that working out? If anything casual usage is going up.
I didn't see Greg's video, but at my gym we clearly have many users. I would imagine it's an average gym. The message should be, why not do all the healthy lifestyle stuff (lift, train, eat well, don't smoke, etc.) while NOT taking steroids? That would be glass full. I can see your point Menno, that they reduce lifespan, but that this is offset by lifestyle. Albeit potentially true, I can see how this could be received as a mixed message by some people. "Oh, so I can cycle occasionally and as long as I maintain a healthy lifestyle, no effect to my lifespan..." Maybe true, but still a bad choice.
I love Mike and Greg, but greg was right on this one! And the things you are talking about he has told all his fans… You made a bad video no need for this 🙂
Menno dipped his toes into the darkside of UA-cam. I like it. Done tastefully!
I won't make a habit of it, but I felt it was warranted here.
@@menno.henselmans , you did a reasonable job of defending your reputation.
@@menno.henselmans Calling someone a nazi because you feel butt hurt is never warranted.
@@JustSomeDude31Except he didn’t call him a Nazi.
Here I must disagree. Menno could have maintained the high ground but instead he descended to Greg's level.
The ad hominem was unnecessary and unhelpful. Greg has been open about his past and I don't think it disqualifies his message. By way of analogy, I also follow cycling and some of the biggest and most credible anti-doping advocates are former dopers. The supps stuff is not only irrelevant but petty- would you impugn Derek's credibility on the same grounds?
More to the point, Menno's actual argument- openness good, gatekeeping bad (nay, the path to fascism!)- is facile. Should we put out there information that might facilitate bomb-making, suicide, eating disorders? I mean, it's up to each individual what they do with it!
To be clear, I'm not advocating for suppressing facts or evidence but there is a nuanced debate to be had about how to present things responsibly. Admittedly Greg didn't make a meaningful contribution to that debate but, disappointingly, neither did Menno.
Dismantles Greg
Drops Mic
Refuses to elaborate
Leaves
I just assumed Doucette meant a "small douche"
It does
Big douche-tte in my opinion
*Douchette, lol. Nice one.
It means "little sweet".
douchette
Greg knows what he is doing. Mitchel hooper interviewed him and he admits he does all this stuff to stir up controversy on purpose to get more views
The entire commentary YT space does it, not just Greg. I mean, did you see the whole recent thing with critical and Logan Paul? You tubers use each other as foils, they use drama and controversy to generate views and engagement, because it’s what people want and respond to. If it didn’t get views and attention, they wouldn’t keep doing it. And most of them know and understand this and don’t take any of it personally. Most of them 😂 I guess no pt menno
@@jonosterman2878 No. Some parts of UA-cam do this. The shitty part.
@@jonosterman2878no. Greg is just pathetic
@@jonosterman2878some do. Greg does. Plenty of others do not
Don't agree. Year ago, Menno came to the opposite conclusion of the exact same study on Instagram - very disappointing that he's flip flopping like this and not even addressing his prior interpretations. One of them must be wrong.
Menno,
you're reading the article incorrectly. The steroids were not fake. Selling steroids is illegal in Canada, therefore, to get them in the country a common tactic is to import them under a fake name so they don't appear as steroids at customs. I believe personal use is legal in Canada, but when you're selling things, you tend to important more than amounts for personal use and that would get flagged. Theres a lot of stories of this online from the late 2000s to mid 2010s. Im not saying youre wrong for making a response video by any means, and what greg did was illegal. But what you are describing is not correct.
to the point of 'Viagra would also get flagged', not the point. I'm not saying it was a cleaver move, it obviously got caught or we wouldn't be talking about it. The point is that was the method of diversion and there's not evidence substantiating that the steroids were fake
It's a really weird diversion to label something that will get searched. Almost like a setup to get inspected which is a problem in a different way.
@aliensnail7173 I am Canadian. Legal drugs are controlled here if they're by prescription. You cannot just import viagra. That's illegal here too
@@jeffpatterson5126 i dont dispute that, but if he's importing under a pretend pharmacy or business that's certified to handle drugs then its gonna be less suspicious id think to get Viagra than steroids. Regardless, that's not even the point, im not saying its not still illegal, and honestly its still a dumb move. my point is that saying the steroids were fake is incorrect. fake labels to masquerade the steroids as something else is not the same as having things claiming to be steroids and not be.
I think you're right there. Menno is otherwise spot on, but i didn't get the impression the actual drugs were fake.
@@jeffpatterson5126 it seems like he was pretending to be a fake pharmacy or company certified to import such drugs. and even if it was a stupid thing that also would instantly get caught, thats not the point. im not saying hes cleaver, it simply doesnt imply that the steroids would have been fake.
I think you misread that article, unless I misread it. It seems that the fake part was the brands being used to covertly sell steroids (i.e. packaging it as Viagra but in reality it has steroids), not that the steroids were fake.
That doesn't improve the situation much
@@BlindBosnian it does? Completely different things
Selling Gear In Canada Is illegal
But buying and using Gear Is completely Legal. That's why people have to sell them secretly
@@BlindBosnian , improve a lot. Selling viagra as a test is like being scum-bag. Selling test as a viagra - yeah, criminal, but honest one. Does it make any sense?
That doesn't make sense to me. If you're going to package steroids as something else, Viagra is the most foolish choice you could make. Everyone knows it and knows it's prescription-only in Canada, so it's just as likely to get flagged by customs as testosterone. I assume it was something with similar ingredients being sold as Viagra, which is the most common form of counterfeit. That means it might have had the intended ingredients (or not), but either way, it was counterfeit. A replica Gucci bag is still a fake Gucci bag.
Disclaimer: This is all based on my reading of the border agency's statement. I'm not making new criminal accusations.
So in conclusion... Don't do steroids.
In your last video, you addressed the question of steroids and longevity by referencing a study comparing elite athletes taking steroids to the general population. Greg was right to point out the apples-to-oranges design of that study and the dangers of drawing conclusions from it. Why not inform your viewers more about the topic instead of going all in on the ad-hominem? You accuse Greg of having sold fake steroids, yet the 2012 article you quote as evidence at 4:00 actually says no such thing.
Oh Greg, you picked the wrong opponents (Menno and Dr. Mike).
And Migan (Team3DAlpha)
Edit: And also Revival Fitness who made several rebuttal videos against him and Greg responded to exactly zero of them
Nah, he picked the right ones. He's a pure attention monger to keep the pipeline flowing into the funnel. He has enough good information/empathy (real or fake) that he can bait people once you are there (hes good at captivating an audience). Its also why people like him, Thomas DeLauer etc... seem to flipflop on every position they have all the time. Shotgun enough takes and enough people will see the ideas they like, get confused by the contrary info, buy in for clarity, and eventually give them money.
He’s become so hard to watch now.
He also sells some dodgy supplements.
He beefs with Mike? Where?
Glad Greg picked these opponents they need to be called out, greg is absolutely right here and Menno is monstrously wrong.
comparing with a statistical analysis non-natty top athletes and the general public it’s not even comparing apples and oranges- it’s comparing apples and squid.
Also it's on average, yeah, but I'd like to see the median in this case.
exactly. It's totally irrelevant to Greg's point that steroids are harmful. And I'm not even a Greg fan but this whole thing annoyed me and I'm disappointed in Menno for trying to derail the conversation in defense of Mike's choices. Mike is an adult. He can and isn't required to defend his own choices.This doesn't make Mike look better all. He already said he knows the risks and determined they're worth it for what he intends to get out of it. There should be nothing else to talk about.
@@LovingSoul61 yes.
Also, having beef online- you need to know how to do it. Whether you like him or not, Greg is a master at it. If you don’t know how to respond to online beef or trolling, stfu. it’s 10000 times better for you.
@@Woclshejtiknew1 lol I agree that Greg is better at this for sure
Greg literally explained in his video that the comparison was between an athlete on roids with a general population's life expectancy, and this is exactly the point in saying that it is not too honest to compare these two groups, since it would be better to compare athletes to athletes
And what about the point that in the studies from the original video it was the elite athletes which were studied (soccer players, bike riders etc) who are not recreational bodybuilders which actually are the target demographic for the video?
I like you… you saved me some time. Two thumbs up 👍🏼👍🏼
also it's average, not median. That would've been more interesting to see.
Menno did great here. I was actually angry watching the Greg video having watched what Menno's steroids video ACTUALLY said. Also the way he has been going after mike israetel seems so unnecessary. Thanks Menno🙌
To be fair, the way Mike used to mention Greg out of context also seemed pretty unnecessary for me personally.
@@Flahtort yeah that's a good point. And tbh you kinda expect it from Greg but mike is normally pretty civil online. It's a shame
@@tm3578-t5x , yeah. I mean, i'm huge fan of Mike. And if he criticize somebody - i would love to see viable arguments, not rude nonsense jokes about voice.
He isn't 'going after Mike Israetel'. Like or dislike Gregg, but all he did was expressing his concerns, which serves as a warning to those in a similar scenario (older age, average genetics & high fitness goals) who want to walk the same path.
@@the_notorious_baslol Greg hates Mike, he doesn't have any "concerns" about him. He made like 4 videos about him in a month, he's just milking his name for money.
I was with you until you brought up something from 12 years ago. Are people not allowed to turn their life around? He’s admitted to selling steroids before.
Yeah it's not a great gotcha. People can change their mind about things. Greg hasn't hidden anything in his past and it does seem to be in the past.
@@jeebsy718yes he does lfmao what about the NDA he made ally sign? Or that he lies about only getting caught with trt when he was caught with homebrewed large amounts in customs and at much higher than trt levels of test for his cycling contest...or that he bought dereks formulations for supplements then skimmed some ingredients with his "turk builder" for extra profit margins😂😂😂😂
Atleast 12 years ago he sold shit that works now he is full time snake oil salesman selling cook books for 200$ and useless shit supplements that dont work.
Also im fucking tired of juiced gorrilas who have profited from roided bodies now preaching against using steroids. Greg made himself known with juice advice and looking like demi-god all while being incredibly strong.
If it wasnt for steroids he wouldnt be where he is now. Guys remember in life you always do ABC. Always Be Cheating. Because if you wont someone else will and that person will be ahead of you while you will think that you are somehow better than others just because you didnt take the neccesary steps to get ahead in life.
When. Is he going to turn his life around and stop scamming people? He's still peddling bullshit to this day, just in different forms.
Please. First, not all of the shady things Greg has done are from over a decade ago. He still does this; he just found new venues to do so. And it's one thing to meet someone at 37 and note how much they've changed since they were in their early 20s. But when the starting point is 37, it's VERY unlikely they've changed - at 49, they're just making more of an effort to not get caught again.
Greg was honest about his crimes though and Derek had the same issues with Turk.
Greg is only honest once he gets caught.
I literally CAN NOT WAIT for Gregs video
why would he make one? it doesnt get enough views to persue
Maybe these are my Cuban genes showing, but I think these are two different things:
1. Strict government censorship that prevents people from talking about the pros of steroids.
2. Influencers choosing not to talk about the pros of steroids because they don't want to needlessly influence people to take steroids.
I have a feeling Greg Doucette wasn't arguing for #1, he was arguing for the moral value of #2.
I don't have any issue with your steroid video, I just don't think you've properly rebutted Greg's criticism.
Even stranger, Greg Doucette says he quit steroids? Isn't he using TRT? That's synthetic testosterone. That's about as steroidy as steroids get.
HE'S ON HRT
100%. To me that was clearly Greg's point (made in his usual heavy-handed and screechy style), and Menno simply chose not to engage with it.
@@RIASSENPAI and? Are you trying to say that 140mg a week is the same as an abusive dose like 3000mg a week? Because that’s around what most of these guys take, sometimes a lot more. nasser el Sonbaty was on 5000mg of test, just test! That wasn’t even his full stack. TRT is not at all the same as abusing steroids.
he has to be on trt since he abused steroids in the past though hes only on 140mg a week which means he has abouit the testosterone of a guy in theire early 30s or so so you can in no way say he is n steroids, plus it is doctor perscribed
@@thyestes5538TRT is still steroids. So technically Greg is lying whenever he says he’s not on steroids anymore. And given his past, I highly doubt Greg is honest about “only being on TRT”.
Your interpretation of ‘steroids with fake labels’ as ‘fake steroids’ calls into question your English reading comprehension, Menno. You rushed this video to ‘get back at Greg’, and it shows with the recitation of well-known failings of Greg - at this point a worn out tactic. A simple ‘Greg has misrepresented my video’ with supporting evidence is all that was needed.
I hope you got this smoke for greg
@@Mudkipz123 if Greg would kindly send me one of his sports cars now to repay me for a mild defence of his video, it would certainly be appreciated.
But seriously, I actually like Menno and Mike’s content much more than Greg’s, but there is never any good reason to use ad hominem arguments. Just makes you look petty and distracts from the real issues at hand.
Imagine defending a felon, cheater, liar and stealer that everyone in the industry has ostracized this hard
I still think Greg should prep Mike for a show
that would be very cool to see, but I still think Mike should retire and start cruising for a while, stop blasting. We don’t want to see another tragedy.
@@scottymackay1801 same here,
All of the things you say Greg didn't understand about your video are things he explicitly spoke about in his video. Meaning he absolutely did understand all that you said. Also the add homonym attacks about him selling gear and terk, don't really work to discredit him when he has openly spoken about these things many times in the past. You aren't exposing him like you think you are.
If you watched the 3 videos, you know what's going on. Either there's a comprehension deficit and Greg failed to understand what Menno said in the original video, or in his response video he was just pretending not to have understood it for the drama and views, which kinda is his MO so it wouldn't surprise me.
Exactly this, and Menno is even twisting things around to make his narrative work in menno's own favor. What menno does here is truely manipulative narcissistic behaviour. And to top it off he calls Greg a Nazi and a Communist as well. Really low from menno if you ask me.
@@user-ii7xc1ry3x menno was explaining that steroid users have a similar life expectancy to people that don't use steroids. Reason being that steroids alone will decrease life expectancy but that negative effect is offset by these people generally having a healthier life style.
This is precisely what Greg responded to but Menno is acting like Greg overlooked these points
@@user-ii7xc1ry3x It looks like Greg did understand. The whole point was why are we comparing elite athletes to the general population, when in reality, not everyone on steroids is an elite athlete or taking doctor prescribed doses and following a prescribed cycle plan from a doctor. If this study was done doing an appropriate comparison to the average person, there would a different conclusion.
I understand that Menno is just talking about the results of the study and what it entailed, but with that type of information, you have to look at both sides.
"add homonym attacks"
lmao goodnight
I feel like the point Greg was trying to make is the idea that telling people steroids are bad for you but not THAT bad if you have other healthy lifestyle choices isn’t directly glorifying steroids but it is what people that are considering steroids would like to hear as opposed to the constant (and justified) negativity surrounding steroids. Neither of you are wrong per se but it doesn’t help the steroid epidemic anymore telling people athletes who do steroids and live a healthy lifestyle live longer than those who don’t take steroids but don’t do exercise
I agree, Meno should just lie and say the data says steroids mean you die in 1 year. Yuck telling what the research actually says and sharing facts
Greg has tons of videos that can be easily perceived as glorifying steroids. I've followed him for a long time and seen many videos that are mainly talking about the benefits of steroids, although he's really moved into primarily anti-steroid content recently overall.
The thing is there were many nuances in the studies Menno talks about. Menno explained it in the video, which I saw before Greg's video and knew instantly Greg was clipping a lot out of context. I strongly recommend you watch Menno's original video (it's only like 6 minutes) because he explains all these points, as well as the fact that he said another way to look at it, is that even mild, temporary use of steroids in the past can offset that benefits of being healthy your whole life. And there was an increase in younger deaths amongst the athletes (mainly due to high suicide rates) but that cardiovascular disease was the main cause of death overall.
The reality is I watch both these guys and they both have great information. But hands down Greg knows controversy drives clicks and you would have to be a fool to think he doesn't engage in all forms of "bait" style content, while heavily pushing his supplements. Greg has even bragged about how many views he's received off the backlash of his videos, and subsequent responses. I love Greg's content, he's extremely talented, but it's obvious he's a very driven, self serving individual when it comes to money, success and the "win at all costs" mindset. That shouldn't surprise anyone.
so spread propoganda instead?
I don't think people got it but I was being sarcastic
@@AngeloUrso-qi5tv i got it
I think the major issue with the original video is that you used a study that compared elite athletes to the general population.
Greg definitely makes things more dramatic than they are, but I do think you need to be careful how you discuss something so extreme.
Yes that's a point left unadressed - - that a video based on a single study which in turn is about a highly non representative fraction of the population is of not much informational value for the general population, and it certainly doesn't show "how many years steroids take off your life" in those general terms. Let's be honest, it was click-baity too.
They litterally compare siblings in that study - and the findings are that steroid use reduces life span as much as all the healthy things athletes do, put together - so a lot. They do not compare elite athletes to the general population, per se. They just see that even elite athletes don't live longer than the general population (with crappy lifestyles) when they go on gear. In conclusion, gear is very bad for you.
@@mmlj84thanks for that, seems hard for people to understand that... Maybe Menno needs to dumb it down a bit or loose some of his viewers
That’s a nice mic drop! Good for you Menno.
Menno got pissed…unfortunately that’s exactly the type of clout Doucette’s interested to promote…he’s probably recording three new videos about it right now…
Finna watch em all with popcorn
I hope he destroys menno while doing so. :D
i didnt think anyone getting pissed..he articulated documented facts and as a responsible man who works to give us quality information so that we can make informed choices...unlike greg who make a video if someone in fitness industry had new hair growth in their @$$
@@avinashmuraleedhar I’m sure Greg has the same sincere opinion of the video - but as Dr. Mike once said, the guy has so many faces he doesn’t even know who he is anymore…
this guy inst popular enough to make videos about, u aint seeing any vids from greg about this anytime soon
Very good response Menno! I much admire you for your calmness and I also think most people got your last video right
I Agree, I would usually say just ignore it but I think this was a well done response.
I am old enough to remember when Mike Israetel was begging from attention from Greg and not the other way around...
That was enjoyable. Thank you Menno!
Menno you sir are a CLASS act, top shelf information, not censored, properly referenced no BS. We need more scientists in this area & less whiny shady dealing wankers!
All those things you said about Greg he HIMSELF has been thoroughly been open about ... So your point is ? (smearing I gather)
Also, I agree with him on the part about you comparing steroid users to an unhealthy population. Compare apples to apples. Healthy lifestyle people vs. healthy lifestyle people who abuse steroids, there lifespan is likely shorter.
So when comparing equally, steroid abuse DOES reduce your lifespan.
World you send your daughter to school with an ex rabe convict if he's open about it
😂😂😂@@NAVEENCHAURASIYAA
@@NAVEENCHAURASIYAA I've never heard such a dumb argument in my life lmao. I guess to you, all crimes are equal, init? I guess people who have committed crimes have no value to give to society beyond their crimes, have no knowledge to share etc. Bozo
Dr.Mike: "severe anxiety disorder, entirely due to steroids"
His Dr. buddy: "steroids arent bad"
I've watched the video, I'm with Greg on this one and you got told by your own fanbase in the comment section before Greg's video.
Earned a sub and Bell for this roast. Straight to the point and to the kill with references. No mercy
Menno and Greg both took things out of context to make their points. I watch them both and make my own conclusions.
I would pay to see a live debate. Greg would, not sure Menno would take that offer
greg isn't able to debate, he was in this one jubilee video and even there he was the second worst asshole
That's a fair assessment
I always say with knowledge comes power. And u miss represented the information.
Does anyone not already know I sold steroids? And no they were not fake. Ask any of my former clients.
So again misrepresenting the facts.
And Schofield did post coaching personal coaching plans that he was not permitted to do.
I’ve already addressed every single point in these videos nothing here is new every few months somebody makes another video pointing out the same exact thing over and over and so hopefully Mike isreatel also can address this since surprisingly or coincidentally he’s in my DM’s asking me a bunch of questions that he wants to have in writing. Perhaps you’re asking him to get some information from him to do more videos.
Trying to make me look bad does not change the fact that you made it look like steroids don’t shorten your life by comparing people elite athletes who takes steroids to the general population of lazy people. You know you did wrong and trying to point the finger and saying oh yeah well greg is actually worse than me doesn’t make you right.
These science guys really are the hawk tuah cirle jerks
I looked up Ad Hominem attack in the dictionary and I saw this video come up😱
Just watched the video, and I have to say that Menno, you are not demonstrating your usual objective approach. Although the way that news article was written was confusing, I believe you might have misinterpreted due to your own biases against coach Greg as others commenting said they interpreted something completely different. it's not like you're quoting the Associated Press or official court documents with this CBC article, I question why you're so certain in yourself in this regard. It's clear you didn't do your research about the Turkesterone events as you would have found that the only company which actually decided to take accountability and address this problem after it was made known to them was HTLT, while other major companies continue to sell bunk Turkesterone.
you look plenty bad yourself without the help of Menno, greg.
did the steroids lower your intelligence that much or is it just so easy to become a teacher in america than you don't need any comprehension skills whatsoever?
if you don't think Menno is harsh enough on steroids when he says even small use will take years off you life and that he himself wouldn't take them, then that's a you issue.
Menno just casually ethered Greg.
Greg pretty open about his steroid use and him selling it.
Doesn’t mean he can’t say it’s bad.
Indeed it doesn’t, but for Greg, a known steroid user, to criticize Menno based on a misinterpretation of his stance on the subject is a major ass hypocrite move.
Of course he is open. It's public knowledge. lol
@@dokho7iday how? Should he continue to promote roids?
Except that anyone with eyes in their head can see that he's still using them.
@@swagbag7951 no he should stfu and quit throwing stones in his glass house. You and I both know there’s clearly a massive middle ground between promoting steroid use and dragging an industry colleague (I’m using this term extremely generously) based on your incorrect interpretation of what the colleague said. Of course, I’m giving Greg the benefit of the doubt that he just misinterpreted what Menno actually said and not pulling his typical bullshit and just stirring the pot.
@menno, A year ago, on Instagram, you disagreed with the studys findings. You stated that steroids do indeed cause more damage than the health benefits of exercise. Curious about the contrary opinions you posting on Instagram VS UA-cam?
Could be new evidence became available to him
Depends highly on the dose and the compounds you're taking as well as other factors. While there might be no safe way to use PEDs, there certainly are really harmful ones.
Point is, it's the exact same study, that he has interpreted in two opposite ways, on Instagram and UA-cam. Your comment makes no sense.@@akn3207
As someone who uses gear, I refuse to be naive to the damage it’ll do to my heart. Will I be taking years off my life? Possibly. Hopefully the damage isn’t too great. I’m not competing using insane dosages but I don’t think any dose doesn’t have potential negative side effects. But that’s my choice to use them.
Just eat your veggies and you should be fine.
@@pillemcphilsen8529😂
Graceful, to the point and no BS. Shots fired. Love it! Much respect Menno.
Your response was good until you got on the personal attacks. It will never be a good look to attack someone personally, especially with half assed information like you did here. Not only has Greg addressed each point you raised, they also all happened for different reason and at different stages of his life. You're putting out information about someone without the context and yet acting like you're taking both the moral and intellectual high ground.
It is ironic that in the same video where you defend providing the public with all available information, you go ahead and provide multiple headlines without context, with the sole purpose to mislead the audience and achieve your agenda of making Greg look bad 'cos you didn’t like him calling you out. You're not much different from the rest of the internet drama people as much as you try and pretend like you are.
He just went on to full slander mode cause there is nothing for him to criticize about. It really just makes him seems less creditable.
Greg lover
Brooo fuck Drake Vs. Kendrick
Menno vs Greg is gonna be the greatest beef of 2024
but shouldn´t you compare to healthy, natural,gym peolpe? so that there is less variables?
was he selling steroids in fake packaging to conceal the steroids? Or was he selling something that would not be defined as steroids and marketing it as real? This is an important distinction to make. I am left confused.
But Menno, this is not how people with muscle fight! You're using brain! Facts! You didn't even yell !
2:53 Great message! Keep the drama out of one's life, when possible/reasonable. Like you mentioned sometimes it's good to defend, but not every person's opinion deserves one's attention.
Best diss track since Nas' Ether
You can tell that most of you don’t watch Greg’s videos at all. Whether or not you like him, he’s 100% right here. Steroid abuse will affect you later in life. We all know that. This clown knows it.
I love UA-cam beef. Although, literally every example you gave was something he was open about. He never lied about any of it. His business and marketing is real annoying, but he's honest. I never, for one second, thought your video was irresponsible. You're like a robot that just gives "da facts," and you're not very opinionated on how to interpret most data. So I think you're both just mad and, I'll be honest, I'm here for it. Very excited for Greg to escalate this into a hot war. I'll be sellinf shirts thay say "I support Greg" and "I support Menno" because I'm a capitalist.
He did a bit of artful distraction about the overlap between natural powerlifting, natural bodybuilding, and getting caught. So not really.
@UCsrFOJdZzI2V5NpLag9jTlw Great point that doesn't mean anything
why did you put a strawman in your thumbnail though? just because someone else did something irresponsible (that they openly acknowledge as such) doesn't mean you didn't also do so
and you are also using fake claims (saying he sold fake steroids) to attack his character instead of addressing the actual point that was being made- that you suggested steroids aren't actually that bad for you
Yeah Menno twists and distorts the "fake steroids" to create his own narative. Sad man this Menno.
Dude I watched that video and didn't even know it was about you. It seemed to be more about the study than you. And here you are bringing up old shit like a high school girl.
Such a classy way of destroying someone, wow.
Not the mic turn-off 😂
i agree with most of this but the 'we know how those societies ended' list, including the current people's republic of china, makes no sense. china hasn't 'ended'. it's still going strong. there's also a few other societies that controlled information that are still going strong as well (north korea, vietnam).
First of all the study is talking about elite endurance, athletes, using performance enhancing drugs like cardarine, EPO and other PPAR type drugs. No endurance athlete is going to be taking Tren or high doses of any anabolics because the muscle gain is not advantageous and the pumps make it impossible to run/cycle. Athletes and their drugs (and especially doses) are different from bodybuilders. You are talking nonsense here again. You don’t know what you’re talking about
You're taking thing out of context here Menno, I thought you're better than this. He used and sold steroids, but now h knows better and is against them, because they're bad for you. He went above and beyond to test his supplements, which no one does, and it turned out it had no Turkestesterone, it had other ecdysteroids. His other product has Turkesterone.
You telling people using a some steroids is not that bad is like when chips companies tell people to have a portion, except when you had a little bit you wanna have 3 bags.
Greg also got an 8 year cycling ban.
Awesome Menno - love the touche at the end dude well done
Great video and i agree on educating people and not being afraid to put out nuanced information.
Btw, Greg already publicly admitted and talked about his drug use and the period when he was selling steroids which he regrets. So we all agree on that being a crappy thing to do (including Greg). No problem with putting it out again in this video, just a bit of extra info.
He only regrets getting busted.
Maaaaan, what a response... Nicely done
Menno, this i why follow you, killing it with facts; Beautifull!!
who moderately uses steroids menno. come on dude, i dont wanna be that guy but like dude. come on.
natty dyel comment
Gregg’s responde video dropping TONIGHT!!! 🤣🤣🤣
If you got to the point that you are taking a little bit of hard drugs, what makes you think that you can now resist taking more and more when you have already succumbed to temptation in the first place?
Bro woke up and chose violence
RIP coach Greg
Boom, Menno drops the mic !
(yeah, need seven words or more)
There is some irony in the other person being the one using the information irresponsibly (by misrepresenting it). I think the first part of this video where you share your ideology in sharing the data as it is, is valuable.
bro compared it to soviet union i can't
No he didn't, in a ntushell he just said that the sentiment driving the witholding of information for people's "own good" is authoritarian and tyrannical, and used historical regimes as examples to contrast against the liberties western society enjoys
I watched your video when you posted it and it was unbiased, factual, and did not sensationalize the research. I can’t figure out how Doucette drew the conclusions he did from your video. He must see you as a credible threat (to what, I’m not sure) to want to pick a fight with you. The truth is on your side. Keep fighting the good fight.💪🏻
Farengi Rule of Acquisition #239: Never be afraid to mislabel a product. (star trek, deep space 9)
Missed opportunity to include a Dr. Mike Doucette impression. "Waaaaagh"
Menno hit the nail on the head criticizing Greg about his paternal domineering. Our world has gotten too comfortable instructing others how to live their life and what morals they should live by.
The average guy doing steroids is going to shorten his lifespan. Comparing them to elite athletes is irrelevant. Not applicable to the average gymbro.
"Like sands through the hourglass... so are the Days of Our Lives."
I never understand the business angle. I like Greg but his stuff is too expensive for me (same for the RP app by the way, i'm a fan of dr. mike too). There are people out there who can afford to spend the money on something they value. Do people not actually consider that's greg's target audience?
You're telling people to embrace free thought when it comes to deciding on steroids, but you're suggesting people shouldn't be spending so much money on greg's stuff? People are free to do what they want.
I thought it was unfair to compare the guy to fascists and then critizise him for how he is legally and freely running his own business.
we love you Menno!
Consise and classy! A fan from Portugal!
Just see how many of those pro wrestlers from the 1980s are no longer with us today! Ravishing Rick Rude dropped dead at 40. Hercules Hernadez died in his sleep at 44. Mr. Perfect passed away at 46, etc., etc., etc.
They were saying that the gear was labeled "Cipher Farm", a 'fake' pharmaceutical company, or a real UGL (underground lab i.e. illicit steroid compounding pharmacy) depending on how you look at it.
UGLs buy raw powder-form steroids from mostly Chinese bulk vendors, then compound/brew them into vials, tablets, or capsules. At that point they need to be labeled, and UGLs create a brand to use for labeling so that they can establish a reputation and brand recognition.
Rather than directly counterfeit existing pharmaceutical companies' names and products, it is common practice with UGLs to have their own branding and labeling with names like '___ pharmaceutical', or '___ biocare' etc.
For tadalafil (Cialis) they label products things like 'Cipher Cialis' or just the straight up trade name along with their own branding, and either way the border patrol would probably consider it to be counterfeit Cialis.
Whether Greg was brewing up his own gear from raws, or buying and reselling UGL gear, I have no idea. However I think one of those two options is most likely the reality of the situation rather than Doucette selling 'fake gear'.
Shots fired!!!
Greg is so annoying. Unwatchable. Love you Menno!
This type of content from someone like yourself who is educated and articulate is appreciated!
@1:50-2:14 I agree with Menno. You can't deny someone information because 'they might' abuse it. If teen kids want to have sex, they are better off having a discussion thats why we have sex ED, if people want to try drugs (they eventually will) its better off talking to someone whose taken them and suffered the bad parts so they can make better decisions themselves. etc. People will always do taboo things and they will make bad choices if no one talks to them.
Part of the problem with the data is that it is comparing steroids that were available some 50 years ago and not modern PEDs. We see bodybuilders dropping dead left and right and abuse of modern PEDs, and also diuretic drugs, are obviously playing a huge factor.
I thought you said "Stick to yelling at Mike" which is quite on brand for his latest videos
Beautifully done Menno ! 😎💪
Shocker, Greg Doucette didn’t understand a nuance.
For the system, but more important for you!
Greg's just trash talking at this point and focused his sights on Israetels community... :D
Just common sense. Why don’t the million and billionaires take steroids? Why do you see ex older bodybuilders having to undergo heart surgery, hormone replacement and extensive joint surgeries if steroids are not only healthy for you but extend your life?
Lets clear the air. Menno is NOT a medical doctor. He is NOT an endocrinologist nor an epidemiologist.
He reviewed the literature. Based on this he proclaims steroids are safe. This is a joke.
It is irresponsible of Menno.
He did not say they were safe.
yes man, cash out the beef with greg dude! he did you a favour and brought you on the map
Looking forward to the response video to the response video to the response video.
Greg admits to being intentionally obtuse to stir drama and get views. Sadly this is where the youtube algo and the average viewer have led us.
On the bright side, now you can have drama with Greg and get a bunch of easy views too!
Greg is the king of strawmen arguments. You should challenge him to a debate and watch him get angry when he can't make an argument.
you clearly dont watch greg and only listen to people talk shit about him with no evidence or context
@@thyestes5538 No I watch most of Greg's content and that's how I know he's a lying manipulative hypocrite.
Awesome Response!
Treating people like they are actual adults/responsible tends to lead them to act that way more.
Trying to manipulate and keep them in the dark/fearmonger/restrict rarely has good results. I mean just consider the fact that much steroid usage is Illegal. How is that working out? If anything casual usage is going up.
I didn't see Greg's video, but at my gym we clearly have many users. I would imagine it's an average gym. The message should be, why not do all the healthy lifestyle stuff (lift, train, eat well, don't smoke, etc.) while NOT taking steroids? That would be glass full. I can see your point Menno, that they reduce lifespan, but that this is offset by lifestyle. Albeit potentially true, I can see how this could be received as a mixed message by some people. "Oh, so I can cycle occasionally and as long as I maintain a healthy lifestyle, no effect to my lifespan..." Maybe true, but still a bad choice.
You didnt drive the point home by saying athletes that use steroids will die sooner than athletes who don't.
why did u delete your original video and thumbnail? Maybe that slander wasn't too smart was it?
So the gauntlet has been thrown 🥊🥊🥊
Only one way to settle this
FIGHT!
I love Mike and Greg, but greg was right on this one!
And the things you are talking about he has told all his fans…
You made a bad video no need for this 🙂