I would think they should be the same. The PS5 isn’t running an emulation layer or anything. It just disables some of the cores and throttles some of the clock speeds. Hardware wise it shouldn’t be substantially different.
Yep I was scared after recently selling my PS4 and playing all my arcade games on PS5 with PS4 versions installed so I can use my Hori Fighting Edge. Thanks for the confirmation that I don't need to rebuy a PS4 pro 😂
But sadly thats not the case. Its extensively tested by Dragon Ball fighterz players that its really that bad. 3 frames worse than ps4s. Edit: really unplayable bro.
Thank you so much for verifying this. I actually hesitated to buy a PS5 because I wondered whether it had lag for the ps4 games. Now I will just wait and see if they release an improved revision model like a pro or slim.
I played DJ Max Respect a lot on the PS4 Pro before I broke it and had to get a PS5. The difference in input lag was very noticeable even on the first time playing it on the PS5. I was able to hit perfect combos on the PS5 without having to hit the note like a millisecond earlier than when it drops. My thought is that not only is the PS5 adding more performance to the game at a hardware level, but also the connection to the controller is much more responsive and faster than the dualshock 4.
Oh that's fascinating! Yes I bet that with the games that need better framerates and stuff like that, the ps5 is gonna really help with having more consistent performance.
Yes and it's so slight that I do think it could come from a margin of error in the testing, or maybe some slight differences in how the game runs on ps5. But I'm not confident that it actually runs with more lag, but it might? Hard to say ha without going super in depth and since all the other games responded exactly the same, i felt that was strong enough evidence ha.
What a brilliant useful informative video, and thank you also from a personal standpoint as I was wondering this exact thing. Sadly I am not sure if it's the same case with Xbox backwards compatibility.
Great test! I think a video no one is doing is texture streaming on PS5 back compat. They did a firmware update recently that sort of fixed it, but supposedly there are still issues. The most obvious case of this is Shadow of the Colossus Remake.
Oh so I used a brooks universal board for the testing. If you are playing ps4 games on ps5, it will let you use a ps4 stick. The part where it gets mad is for stuff like tekken 8 (the beta) where it's a ps5 game, then it wants a ps5 stick.
Absolutely! The ps5 is probably their best console at launch because of how well it runs stuff and how strong the backwards compatibility is (even with stuff like arcade sticks and so forth).
Awesome video mate glad to see no input lag added. Are you able to do this lag test for the Xbox One S/X vs Series S/X as well? Would be interesting to see how Microsoft handled the BC.
One thing I can say with certainty is that Xbox BC forces VSync, so in the rare case that a game has a toggle, the toggle is rendered useless. Classic DOOM titles are laggy as hell compared to PS5 as a result. It's a shame. But yeah, I'd love to know more info too
@@purebaldness I knew the OG Xbox & 360 BC games were forced with vsync on the Xbox One S/X. But was unaware they also did this with Xbox One BC games on the Series S/X.
@@shanomacdaddy for me it has led to an interesting scenario where the original XBLA versions of DOOM and DOOM II have better input response than the modern ports, despite being emulated and only running at 35fps - in line with the original DOS version, which also results in bad frame pacing. Meanwhile on PS5 the modern Bethesda ports are _very_ responsive with VSync disabled. I'm glad to have both systems for small differences like these
@@purebaldnessDoom I and II on Xbox are broken, they have input lag but also frame pacing issues, the ps4/5 versions are just better ports for some reasons, it's not the BC. The BC doesn't add any input lag on Xbox One/X games it's very often the opposite actually.
@@femto8402 the BC on Xbox is bad in this case because it renders the vital vsync toggle useless on XSX/S, as BC forces vsync. On XB1 these ports have tearing but low input lag as an option, like PS4/5. Also worth noting that whilst the PS4/5 versions run smoothly, they also have high input lag but thanks to the VSync toggle it can be eliminated. This toggle was implemented thanks to a dev on Doomworld after feedback regarding latency. It's a shame Nintendo Nintendo'd and denied the VSync toggle because the Switch version's latency is even worse. Whilst BC can improve input lag, it can also make it worse. For some bizarre reason, certain XB1 era CoD titles have a high, fluctuating input lag, similar to the X360 versions, only at least they have the excuse of being emulated. Weird thing to note is that another dev claimed not to notice these hitches on XB1 versions of Doom, even though they're pretty damn obvious IMO.
Nice video! I was waiting for someone to finally compare input latency from the PS5 to PS4. Do you have a video on how to properly play Metal Slug? If not, that would be a nice one for the future.
The proper way to play metal slug is going to be shmuparch 8 ha when I get that finished. You want to play the game with run ahead and 200% cpu clock, it just is a magical experience ha.
Yeah I wanted to know this too, since I was looking to get Ketsui PS4 to play CAVE games. But recently I’ve heard Cotton Fantasy is suffering from input lag from the Amazon reviews so now I’m curious.
Thank you my dude! yes this question had to be answered before Doj ps4 comes out! Also I've been playing a bunch of VF5 on ps5 so i've been curious for that game as well ha.
Nice to hear the results. DOJ is the one that finally convinced me to give up and just get a console for ShotTriggers. Well, not that I have the money to get one by DOJ's release, but I would hopefully be starting work next year, so I'll be able to afford even a PS5. Guess I can skip the PS4 and just go straight for the PS5.
Yes lunaria you need either a PS4 or PS5 if you are a shmup fan at this point ha (m2 going too hard to ignore ha) I would say you should just skip to PS5 if you can
Thats good to hear. I still play Ketsui pretty regularly, and its been mostly on PS5 since the system launched. It's definitely the best port of any shmup imo. I cant wait for the DOJ port.
Yes now we'll get to the bottom of this mystery, it's kind of strange no one has really talked about it (I guess most people don't care about input lag that much ha).
I guess it's fine if it's all you're used to, but having felt responsiveness first is a wrench in it. Maybe a hot take but it's like the difference in feel between Dark Souls 2 and the other entries
Nice vid! I vaguely remember reading that strive as ps5 version was laggier than the ps4 version. Is that indeed correct (or maye a topic for another video? Ps4 and ps5 versions of games compared?
I think when we start looking at different versions of games, like the actual PS5 versions, I bet there will be instances of differences. Not just input lag related, but I recall that the PS5 version of wanted dead has a lot of crashing issues, whereas the PS4 version on PS5 is a lot more stable ha
@@TheElectricUndergroundwas not planning to get a ps5 anytime soon so therefore also not buying ps5 versions anyway, but one of my fave dadshmups is truxton, and that one will get a ps5 only sequel/remake or at least a release *cry* oh well guess i will just research on individual basis and well most modern games do not intrest me so much anywyas.
Not a PS guy, but interesting results for those thinking on upgrading. Also, nice choice of music, Bomberman Hero and its soundtrack has an odd space in my memory for some reason. Probably because I got all the golds... that or just the total weirdness of it.
PS5 BC is a godsend. Load times of Pillars of Eternity 1 on PS4/PS4 Pro are almost 60 seconds long, whereas on PS5 they're about 10-12 seconds. Broforce's framerate that swings between 20-40fps on PS4/PS4 Pro makes it pretty much unplayable on those consoles whereas on PS5 it's a locked 60fps. Glad to hear that PS5 BC doesn't seem to be an issue regarding possible increases in input lag, though I was actually hoping that it'd surprisingly improve on it in some games. I'd be curious if BroForce for example where the framerate is so different if the number of frames of response would be the same, it would certainly feel dramatically more responsive on PS5.
Yes the thing I hate most about the ps4 and ps4pro and the hellish load times, so having this beefed out ps5 speed load the games is such a leap forward in quality. Now I can actually play bloodborne without going crazy on the load times ha.
This isn't input-related, but if you want to play Metal Slug 6, the only way is to get the Metal Slug Anthology. I got it on PS4 (on sale) and played it on my PS5; however, I got a full-screen disclaimer saying that the game would flat-out play differently than it does on PS4. And boy, were they right. Graphical glitches, slowdown, the works. It was rough. I have the other mainline MS games (spread out over my PS3, PS5 and Switch) so not having a great version of 6 isn't the end of the world, but I definitely thought it was worth mentioning here.
Excellent info thanks. I never got a PS4, looks like there's no point now. Did you ever do lag testing of back-compat for GC, Wii & Wii U. (modded Wii U can play them all natively which is very handy with its HDMI output)
Yes, feel free to just jump right into the ps5 at this point. It's just outright better ha. Also no i never tested the wii to gamecube, but the wii u always felt laggy to me, but I don't have hard evidence ha.
Hey what's the name of the song you've been using in your background? It sounds quite familiar but I don't know if it's from watching your vids or something else :-P
@@TheElectricUnderground ah, I think between your videos and those of Video Game Esoterica this soundtrack has made its way into my ears. I gotta finally check out Bomberman Hero now
Very interesting. You should test some PS4 games with issues on PS5 if you have any, mostly it's PS2 games like Okage that have issues and the odd PS4 game. I think the Metal Slug Anthology collection is broken on PS5 and you might not be able to search it on the store even, but can on a PS4. I went from a base PS4 to a PS5 and it was a huge upgrade, PS5 running PS4 games in "PS4 Pro mode" is fantastic. It's a gamechanger for me and a lot of older titles I have.
Don't know how slowly they load on PS4, but Ketsui and Esprade take a lot longer to load than any other games I've got on PS5. The "now loading" screen on Ketsui takes over 30 seconds, Esprade 40+.
Just a general comment from experience. All games I have played that I transferred from PS4 Pro to the PS5 all load much faster on PS5. It's like night and day.
I bought for and then sold my ps4 because of SF5 so I had a real sour taste with that console. Combined with the load times and the 5hr battery controllers. I was trying to find lag tests on the m2 ports on ps5, alongside if the resolution improves, but came up blank. Good to know about the lag but does the ps5 do any scaling or anything when it comes to 2d stuff like Ketsui?
I didn't see any visual improvements for the 2d stuff on ps5, but one really nice improvement is the load times on ketsui ha. Ketsui front loads at launch which is much better than loading in session, but still having that giant load time reduced is nice.
Never even occurred to me that this could be an issue. From what I understand, the PS5 runs all PS4 games natively thanks to its similar hardware architecture. No emulation trickery to get in the way or gum things up. That's why all but like, four no-name PS4 games work right out of the box. Always good to hear that it's all good though. A lot of hay gets made about lack of exclusivity etc., but the PS5 is a strong value. PS5 versions of a lot of games are generally good, and you have not only the entire PS4 backlog to choose from, but it's all running at its absolute best in terms of framerate and load times.
Yes one huge motivation for this video was the supposed "hardware" backwards compatible PS3 for PS2 (the launch PS3). No one ever bothered to test it, but it turns out that the launch PS3 does add input lag to PS2 games. So I was concerned something like that could be occuring on the PS5.
@@TheElectricUnderground It'd be cool to see input lag tests for PS3 done sometime if you ever get the time. I've read that the added lag comes from the upscaling process, which is done by the PS3 chips rather than the PS2 chips. So, it may be possible to get less lag if you output PS2 games via composite to a CRT, straight 480i without upscaling, since the PS3 does support it. I don't think anyone's tested it on UA-cam yet.
Weird, I didn’t know fighting games went up to those numbers in terms on input lag, considering I’d imagine people would complain about that stuff since it popular and more people care about performance for competitive
Have you had a chance to try ninja gaiden master collection on PS5? Curious about that one but it’s 39$ and will only purchase with your blessing (I don’t have ps4)
Meanwhile on XSX/S they force VSync on BC titles. Meaning, the rare but vital VSync toggle in certain games no longer works. The Bethesda ports of both DOOM and DOOM II are therefore significantly laggier than they are on PS4/5. Such a shame. Hoping one day we can get a system level VSync toggle on XSX/S. It's nice that there are added graphical and performance boosts all round but input latency is way more important IMO. One of the reasons I also got a PS5 was for it's more consistent BC. In hindsight, I should have just got a PC instead of both consoles. Another thing, though this is just anecdotal: applying VRR to unsupported games on PS5 seems to add input lag, where as on XSX/S it doesn't make a difference (again probably due to the forced VSync). Not into shmups but the couple of videos I've seen of yours regarding input lag have been ever so valuable, so thanks.
I just wish ps5 native titles would allow my Brook board - hopefully whatever new one they come out with is allowed by default with Sony and the publisher doesn't need to explicitly whitelist it. Good topic, though - though a shame I can't blame input lag for my deaths :)
The chip still requires whitelisting. There was some beat 'em I played with a ps4 version and ps5, can't remember, maybe it was River City Girls? Anyway, the ps5 version wouldn't use my arcade stick (that has the ps5 chip), but ps4 version did. After digging, that's how I found out the publisher had to whitelist it (fighting games are probably the only ones that will do that)
yes so half frames come from averaging yes. It's not actually half of frame since it's locked, like you say, it's just that let's say that the input varies from 3 and 4 every so often, you could describe that as 3.5 frames. Whereas if the results never change from 3, then that's 3 frames flat.
All fighting games new and old are capped at 60hz. As far as I am aware VRR/120hz or frame doubling cannot be applied to games that do not support it. In theory that would mitigate input lag. But for the time being playing 60hz games on PS5 with an OLED and low latency controller/stick is the best we can do.
On XSX/S, 120hz does reduce input lag on both 30/60fps games. You don't have a system level toggle on PS5, though. Also, from my experience, forcing VRR on unsupported games adds lag, but on XSX/S it makes no difference since their backwards compatibility forces VSync on everything anyway - which can introduce it's own problems. Also, the latency reduction on XSX/S at 120 is noticable but it's not absolutely essential. All it does is cut the frametime from 16ms to 8ms. Half a frame pretty much.
Xbox BC forces VSync so games that didn't have VSync now have extra lag. OG Xbox and 360 titles have lag because they're emulated, but the few games with 60fps updates still end up more responsive - although that's just anecdotal on my end.
PS5 would be the greatest console ever made if Bloodborne ran at 60 fps or at least a consistent 30 fps but alas it is now just an okay console since I can still play Bloodborne on it. Good video, would've probably been interesting to take a look at PS4 games that have warnings about compatibility issues with PS5. I didn't even know this was a thing until I played Geometry Wars 3 but apparently since certain games don't get play tested they put out that warning in case of any issues that may or may not have been present on the PS4, but more often than not it seems these games otherwise run exactly the same as they would on PS4 but then again I wouldn't know and I'm not sure most people would care that much to find what games even get this prompt on PS5.
I’ve noticed playing ps4 games on my ps5 slim I get frame lag. I thought it was my internet but it’s not. Ps5 games run amazing but ps4 games not so much.. anyone else having this issue?
Dude thanks for this, i recently buy Cuphead for PS4 and i swear to good i feel it more laggy on my PS5 vs on my nephew PS4. I was thinking, well what if PS5 BC add some kind of emulation, i know is not emulation but still i was afraid. Idk maybe his TV is faster than mine.
thats a great test, cause the ps2 games on ps3 were so laggy, i remember player snk vs capcom 2 on ps3 and hated it cause it was so laggy,bad enough for a normal game but worse for a fighting game
I honestly think there's a problem with Tekken 7 on PS5. Me and most of my friends who play tournaments feel the difference playing on ps5 as opposed to ps4
also, idk how sony is trying to tell everybody "backwards compatibility!" while at the same time planning on phasing out disc drives? I know xbox had the leak but i think we know they are both trying to plan that, or sony were until microsoft took the heat. sony is good at letting other companies take the heat lmao "anybody but us are the problem" they say
Ha no kidding! But never forget the launch ps3 my friend, where it was supposedly "hardware" backwards compatible, but still added lag to ps2 games (not a lot of people know that).
NO, you CAN'T just sell your PS4 to your friends and go with a PS5. I have a lot of, and really enjoy playing, my VR library on my PS4. As far as I know, you can't play the PS4 VR games on the PS5 VR. So, you lose ALL of those games. And the PS4 is NOT the best console for SHMUPS and Arcade Games (of the big 3 consoles it's actually the worst). I could probably list 100 games you can't play on the PS4 or the PS5 because they aren't there. You would have to buy all 3 modern consoles to get all of the games that are out there, then you're STILL going to be missing games. Companies that develop and port video games are allergic to money.
Glad you’re still out there doing this kind of stuff for everyone. Thank you for your service, sir.
Yes ha! it's a throwback video to the days where i constantly measured input lag, but when the need arises, my and my setup will be there ha.
I would think they should be the same. The PS5 isn’t running an emulation layer or anything. It just disables some of the cores and throttles some of the clock speeds. Hardware wise it shouldn’t be substantially different.
Yep it appears so!! I think it s good to do a real test though, just to confirm :-)
Confirmation is still really valuable and appreciated! Thanks for this video!
Yep I was scared after recently selling my PS4 and playing all my arcade games on PS5 with PS4 versions installed so I can use my Hori Fighting Edge. Thanks for the confirmation that I don't need to rebuy a PS4 pro 😂
Games that are 30 frames feel like there's way more input lag on PS4 though
But sadly thats not the case. Its extensively tested by Dragon Ball fighterz players that its really that bad.
3 frames worse than ps4s.
Edit: really unplayable bro.
Thank you so much for verifying this.
I actually hesitated to buy a PS5 because I wondered whether it had lag for the ps4 games. Now I will just wait and see if they release an improved revision model like a pro or slim.
Yes exactly!! I felt the same way even after buying the PS5 and was unsure if I should use it for my PS4 games or not
I played DJ Max Respect a lot on the PS4 Pro before I broke it and had to get a PS5. The difference in input lag was very noticeable even on the first time playing it on the PS5. I was able to hit perfect combos on the PS5 without having to hit the note like a millisecond earlier than when it drops. My thought is that not only is the PS5 adding more performance to the game at a hardware level, but also the connection to the controller is much more responsive and faster than the dualshock 4.
Oh that's fascinating! Yes I bet that with the games that need better framerates and stuff like that, the ps5 is gonna really help with having more consistent performance.
Bro glad to find your channel, your content is pure quality!
Oh thank you so much victor!!! Yes right now the channel is a bit under the surface, slowly growing though!
That difference with Tekken was interesting to see. Thanks for the nice quick video :D
Yes and it's so slight that I do think it could come from a margin of error in the testing, or maybe some slight differences in how the game runs on ps5. But I'm not confident that it actually runs with more lag, but it might? Hard to say ha without going super in depth and since all the other games responded exactly the same, i felt that was strong enough evidence ha.
What a brilliant useful informative video, and thank you also from a personal standpoint as I was wondering this exact thing. Sadly I am not sure if it's the same case with Xbox backwards compatibility.
Love these night time chats!
Yeah a late night premiere! Since it was a little vid ha
Great test! I think a video no one is doing is texture streaming on PS5 back compat. They did a firmware update recently that sort of fixed it, but supposedly there are still issues. The most obvious case of this is Shadow of the Colossus Remake.
Oh wow yeah it sounds like Sony are putting legit effort into making sure the backwards compat is solid
Thanks for testing and sharing, this is valuable info.
Good to know! Btw what is your arcade stick setup for ps5? Asking because ps5 only works with official licensed sticks afaik
Oh so I used a brooks universal board for the testing. If you are playing ps4 games on ps5, it will let you use a ps4 stick. The part where it gets mad is for stuff like tekken 8 (the beta) where it's a ps5 game, then it wants a ps5 stick.
thanks for doing this, its nice for peace of mind. been playing a ton of ketsui on ps5 👍
Yes I was wondering the same thing while playing ket, which was a big source of motivation ha
The move to x86 architecture was one of the best things Sony could do with respect to longevity of the games starting at the PS4 moving on.
Absolutely! The ps5 is probably their best console at launch because of how well it runs stuff and how strong the backwards compatibility is (even with stuff like arcade sticks and so forth).
Awesome video mate glad to see no input lag added. Are you able to do this lag test for the Xbox One S/X vs Series S/X as well? Would be interesting to see how Microsoft handled the BC.
One thing I can say with certainty is that Xbox BC forces VSync, so in the rare case that a game has a toggle, the toggle is rendered useless. Classic DOOM titles are laggy as hell compared to PS5 as a result. It's a shame. But yeah, I'd love to know more info too
@@purebaldness I knew the OG Xbox & 360 BC games were forced with vsync on the Xbox One S/X. But was unaware they also did this with Xbox One BC games on the Series S/X.
@@shanomacdaddy for me it has led to an interesting scenario where the original XBLA versions of DOOM and DOOM II have better input response than the modern ports, despite being emulated and only running at 35fps - in line with the original DOS version, which also results in bad frame pacing.
Meanwhile on PS5 the modern Bethesda ports are _very_ responsive with VSync disabled. I'm glad to have both systems for small differences like these
@@purebaldnessDoom I and II on Xbox are broken, they have input lag but also frame pacing issues, the ps4/5 versions are just better ports for some reasons, it's not the BC. The BC doesn't add any input lag on Xbox One/X games it's very often the opposite actually.
@@femto8402 the BC on Xbox is bad in this case because it renders the vital vsync toggle useless on XSX/S, as BC forces vsync. On XB1 these ports have tearing but low input lag as an option, like PS4/5. Also worth noting that whilst the PS4/5 versions run smoothly, they also have high input lag but thanks to the VSync toggle it can be eliminated. This toggle was implemented thanks to a dev on Doomworld after feedback regarding latency. It's a shame Nintendo Nintendo'd and denied the VSync toggle because the Switch version's latency is even worse.
Whilst BC can improve input lag, it can also make it worse. For some bizarre reason, certain XB1 era CoD titles have a high, fluctuating input lag, similar to the X360 versions, only at least they have the excuse of being emulated.
Weird thing to note is that another dev claimed not to notice these hitches on XB1 versions of Doom, even though they're pretty damn obvious IMO.
Nice video! I was waiting for someone to finally compare input latency from the PS5 to PS4. Do you have a video on how to properly play Metal Slug? If not, that would be a nice one for the future.
The proper way to play metal slug is going to be shmuparch 8 ha when I get that finished. You want to play the game with run ahead and 200% cpu clock, it just is a magical experience ha.
Yeah I wanted to know this too, since I was looking to get Ketsui PS4 to play CAVE games.
But recently I’ve heard Cotton Fantasy is suffering from input lag from the Amazon reviews so now I’m curious.
Yes it turns out the PS5 is a safe purchase for PS4 shmups :-)
excellent analysis bro
You're doing God's work Mark. Thanks for the tests! Puts my mind at ease!
Thank you my dude! yes this question had to be answered before Doj ps4 comes out! Also I've been playing a bunch of VF5 on ps5 so i've been curious for that game as well ha.
Nice to hear the results.
DOJ is the one that finally convinced me to give up and just get a console for ShotTriggers. Well, not that I have the money to get one by DOJ's release, but I would hopefully be starting work next year, so I'll be able to afford even a PS5. Guess I can skip the PS4 and just go straight for the PS5.
Yes lunaria you need either a PS4 or PS5 if you are a shmup fan at this point ha (m2 going too hard to ignore ha) I would say you should just skip to PS5 if you can
At 4:25, the thing you are pointing at demonstrate the low lag is obscured by a ps4 png.
Thats good to hear. I still play Ketsui pretty regularly, and its been mostly on PS5 since the system launched. It's definitely the best port of any shmup imo. I cant wait for the DOJ port.
Yes and now you can play ket on PS5 with confidence ha
I'm here, thanks for waiting bro
Yes now we'll get to the bottom of this mystery, it's kind of strange no one has really talked about it (I guess most people don't care about input lag that much ha).
I CARE. I felt that when I played ESPRADE
I guess it's fine if it's all you're used to, but having felt responsiveness first is a wrench in it. Maybe a hot take but it's like the difference in feel between Dark Souls 2 and the other entries
Thanks for answering the big questions. Now we can store the PS4.
Ah yes! This is my bread and butter, I love input lag talks!
Nice vid! I vaguely remember reading that strive as ps5 version was laggier than the ps4 version. Is that indeed correct (or maye a topic for another video? Ps4 and ps5 versions of games compared?
I think when we start looking at different versions of games, like the actual PS5 versions, I bet there will be instances of differences. Not just input lag related, but I recall that the PS5 version of wanted dead has a lot of crashing issues, whereas the PS4 version on PS5 is a lot more stable ha
@@TheElectricUndergroundwas not planning to get a ps5 anytime soon so therefore also not buying ps5 versions anyway, but one of my fave dadshmups is truxton, and that one will get a ps5 only sequel/remake or at least a release *cry* oh well guess i will just research on individual basis and well most modern games do not intrest me so much anywyas.
Not a PS guy, but interesting results for those thinking on upgrading.
Also, nice choice of music, Bomberman Hero and its soundtrack has an odd space in my memory for some reason.
Probably because I got all the golds... that or just the total weirdness of it.
The bomberman hero ost is a gem of gems. One of my favs and yes it has this unique power to stick in your mind!
PS5 BC is a godsend. Load times of Pillars of Eternity 1 on PS4/PS4 Pro are almost 60 seconds long, whereas on PS5 they're about 10-12 seconds. Broforce's framerate that swings between 20-40fps on PS4/PS4 Pro makes it pretty much unplayable on those consoles whereas on PS5 it's a locked 60fps. Glad to hear that PS5 BC doesn't seem to be an issue regarding possible increases in input lag, though I was actually hoping that it'd surprisingly improve on it in some games. I'd be curious if BroForce for example where the framerate is so different if the number of frames of response would be the same, it would certainly feel dramatically more responsive on PS5.
Yes the thing I hate most about the ps4 and ps4pro and the hellish load times, so having this beefed out ps5 speed load the games is such a leap forward in quality. Now I can actually play bloodborne without going crazy on the load times ha.
i was so afraid it would be laggier. Thank god it's the same
This isn't input-related, but if you want to play Metal Slug 6, the only way is to get the Metal Slug Anthology. I got it on PS4 (on sale) and played it on my PS5; however, I got a full-screen disclaimer saying that the game would flat-out play differently than it does on PS4.
And boy, were they right. Graphical glitches, slowdown, the works. It was rough. I have the other mainline MS games (spread out over my PS3, PS5 and Switch) so not having a great version of 6 isn't the end of the world, but I definitely thought it was worth mentioning here.
Excellent info thanks. I never got a PS4, looks like there's no point now. Did you ever do lag testing of back-compat for GC, Wii & Wii U. (modded Wii U can play them all natively which is very handy with its HDMI output)
Yes, feel free to just jump right into the ps5 at this point. It's just outright better ha. Also no i never tested the wii to gamecube, but the wii u always felt laggy to me, but I don't have hard evidence ha.
Hey what's the name of the song you've been using in your background? It sounds quite familiar but I don't know if it's from watching your vids or something else :-P
The ost for the vid is the bomberman hero soundtrack :-)
@@TheElectricUnderground ah, I think between your videos and those of Video Game Esoterica this soundtrack has made its way into my ears. I gotta finally check out Bomberman Hero now
Very interesting. You should test some PS4 games with issues on PS5 if you have any, mostly it's PS2 games like Okage that have issues and the odd PS4 game. I think the Metal Slug Anthology collection is broken on PS5 and you might not be able to search it on the store even, but can on a PS4.
I went from a base PS4 to a PS5 and it was a huge upgrade, PS5 running PS4 games in "PS4 Pro mode" is fantastic. It's a gamechanger for me and a lot of older titles I have.
So nice to know that my ps4 shmups are futureproofed. But does Ketsui load faster now on that SSD drive?It takes 'ages ' to load on the ps4!
Don't know how slowly they load on PS4, but Ketsui and Esprade take a lot longer to load than any other games I've got on PS5. The "now loading" screen on Ketsui takes over 30 seconds, Esprade 40+.
That's pretty long still, but the games are at least worth waiting for.Thanks for the reply!
Just a general comment from experience. All games I have played that I transferred from PS4 Pro to the PS5 all load much faster on PS5. It's like night and day.
@@lancepage1914 Thanks for the reply!Good to hear that many games load faster ,as they should, on a ssd.
I bought for and then sold my ps4 because of SF5 so I had a real sour taste with that console. Combined with the load times and the 5hr battery controllers. I was trying to find lag tests on the m2 ports on ps5, alongside if the resolution improves, but came up blank. Good to know about the lag but does the ps5 do any scaling or anything when it comes to 2d stuff like Ketsui?
I didn't see any visual improvements for the 2d stuff on ps5, but one really nice improvement is the load times on ketsui ha. Ketsui front loads at launch which is much better than loading in session, but still having that giant load time reduced is nice.
Can you test some of the PS2 games on the PS5 for input lag?
Holy smoke, excellent transition work haha
PS5 vs a MiSTer, which has more value for shmups?
Never even occurred to me that this could be an issue. From what I understand, the PS5 runs all PS4 games natively thanks to its similar hardware architecture. No emulation trickery to get in the way or gum things up. That's why all but like, four no-name PS4 games work right out of the box.
Always good to hear that it's all good though. A lot of hay gets made about lack of exclusivity etc., but the PS5 is a strong value. PS5 versions of a lot of games are generally good, and you have not only the entire PS4 backlog to choose from, but it's all running at its absolute best in terms of framerate and load times.
Yes one huge motivation for this video was the supposed "hardware" backwards compatible PS3 for PS2 (the launch PS3). No one ever bothered to test it, but it turns out that the launch PS3 does add input lag to PS2 games. So I was concerned something like that could be occuring on the PS5.
@@TheElectricUnderground It'd be cool to see input lag tests for PS3 done sometime if you ever get the time. I've read that the added lag comes from the upscaling process, which is done by the PS3 chips rather than the PS2 chips. So, it may be possible to get less lag if you output PS2 games via composite to a CRT, straight 480i without upscaling, since the PS3 does support it. I don't think anyone's tested it on UA-cam yet.
Weird, I didn’t know fighting games went up to those numbers in terms on input lag, considering I’d imagine people would complain about that stuff since it popular and more people care about performance for competitive
Have you had a chance to try ninja gaiden master collection on PS5? Curious about that one but it’s 39$ and will only purchase with your blessing (I don’t have ps4)
Oh man I should try it at some point, I have all the Ng games on my Xbox 1x ha, so I don't play the collection on PlayStation at all
Meanwhile on XSX/S they force VSync on BC titles. Meaning, the rare but vital VSync toggle in certain games no longer works. The Bethesda ports of both DOOM and DOOM II are therefore significantly laggier than they are on PS4/5. Such a shame. Hoping one day we can get a system level VSync toggle on XSX/S. It's nice that there are added graphical and performance boosts all round but input latency is way more important IMO.
One of the reasons I also got a PS5 was for it's more consistent BC. In hindsight, I should have just got a PC instead of both consoles.
Another thing, though this is just anecdotal: applying VRR to unsupported games on PS5 seems to add input lag, where as on XSX/S it doesn't make a difference (again probably due to the forced VSync).
Not into shmups but the couple of videos I've seen of yours regarding input lag have been ever so valuable, so thanks.
I just wish ps5 native titles would allow my Brook board - hopefully whatever new one they come out with is allowed by default with Sony and the publisher doesn't need to explicitly whitelist it. Good topic, though - though a shame I can't blame input lag for my deaths :)
I know I was so mad that I couldn't use my brooks when the damn t8 beta was out. Though you can upgrade it to work with a chip
The chip still requires whitelisting. There was some beat 'em I played with a ps4 version and ps5, can't remember, maybe it was River City Girls? Anyway, the ps5 version wouldn't use my arcade stick (that has the ps5 chip), but ps4 version did. After digging, that's how I found out the publisher had to whitelist it (fighting games are probably the only ones that will do that)
How do you measure half-frames of lag in games that are v-synced? Is it just an approximation based on multiple samples and averaging them out?
yes so half frames come from averaging yes. It's not actually half of frame since it's locked, like you say, it's just that let's say that the input varies from 3 and 4 every so often, you could describe that as 3.5 frames. Whereas if the results never change from 3, then that's 3 frames flat.
I love Bomber Man Hero, excellent taste in music.
I’m not surprised but happy to see the proof. The PS5 is the PS4 to own.
Yes for sure, with backwards compatible systems there is always that question and I was curious about it since getting the PS5
Ketsui being 2f on PS4 and PS5 blows my mind
SATO KAIBA IS HERE TO ASSERT DOMINANCE *stands menacingly with rich person energy"
Do you think it would make a difference? if you applied VRR and 120Hz to unsupported games
I m not sure, I think it probably wouldn't with games that are locked to 60 fps like arcade stuff though
All fighting games new and old are capped at 60hz. As far as I am aware VRR/120hz or frame doubling cannot be applied to games that do not support it. In theory that would mitigate input lag. But for the time being playing 60hz games on PS5 with an OLED and low latency controller/stick is the best we can do.
On XSX/S, 120hz does reduce input lag on both 30/60fps games. You don't have a system level toggle on PS5, though. Also, from my experience, forcing VRR on unsupported games adds lag, but on XSX/S it makes no difference since their backwards compatibility forces VSync on everything anyway - which can introduce it's own problems.
Also, the latency reduction on XSX/S at 120 is noticable but it's not absolutely essential. All it does is cut the frametime from 16ms to 8ms. Half a frame pretty much.
My first year of owning a PS5 was just enjoying my PS4 backlog in a more comfortable manner.
2:30 Don't you mean, Virtua Fighter 5 Ultimate Showdown? The PS5 cannot play VF4 or other PS2 games.
Woaah thank you I was looking for a video like this, now I'll buy that shmup since i skip ps4 gen
Are those PS4 tests on a normal PS4 or a PS4 pro?
Now it makes me wonder if Xbox backwards compat is as clean as this. Especially with OG xbox games.
Xbox BC forces VSync so games that didn't have VSync now have extra lag.
OG Xbox and 360 titles have lag because they're emulated, but the few games with 60fps updates still end up more responsive - although that's just anecdotal on my end.
I wonder how much longer before developers and publishers start putting their games on PS5 only
PS5 would be the greatest console ever made if Bloodborne ran at 60 fps or at least a consistent 30 fps but alas it is now just an okay console since I can still play Bloodborne on it.
Good video, would've probably been interesting to take a look at PS4 games that have warnings about compatibility issues with PS5. I didn't even know this was a thing until I played Geometry Wars 3 but apparently since certain games don't get play tested they put out that warning in case of any issues that may or may not have been present on the PS4, but more often than not it seems these games otherwise run exactly the same as they would on PS4 but then again I wouldn't know and I'm not sure most people would care that much to find what games even get this prompt on PS5.
I'm thinking they are holding on to Bloodborne for a possible PS6 remake like Demons souls was remade for PS5.
@@GreenTygur I'd rather a remaster now
When is DOJ M2 out?
Which ps4 controller did you use?
I know the Switch version is laggy af
But is Psikyo Shooting Library Vol 2 for PlayStation 4 laggy?
It s less laggy, but still laggy. 4-5 frames for the games I believe, which isn't terrible but you def feel it
@@TheElectricUnderground Thank you. Much appreciated. I will skip it then!
Is your PS4 a stock PSR or Pro?
Iirc, the PS5 runs the PS5 Pro versions?
I’ve noticed playing ps4 games on my ps5 slim I get frame lag. I thought it was my internet but it’s not. Ps5 games run amazing but ps4 games not so much.. anyone else having this issue?
Ah, now you can enjoy the next R-type Final (which is ps5 exklusive)
Dude thanks for this, i recently buy Cuphead for PS4 and i swear to good i feel it more laggy on my PS5 vs on my nephew PS4. I was thinking, well what if PS5 BC add some kind of emulation, i know is not emulation but still i was afraid. Idk maybe his TV is faster than mine.
Thank you
thats a great test, cause the ps2 games on ps3 were so laggy, i remember player snk vs capcom 2 on ps3 and hated it cause it was so laggy,bad enough for a normal game but worse for a fighting game
I honestly think there's a problem with Tekken 7 on PS5.
Me and most of my friends who play tournaments feel the difference playing on ps5 as opposed to ps4
also, idk how sony is trying to tell everybody "backwards compatibility!" while at the same time planning on phasing out disc drives? I know xbox had the leak but i think we know they are both trying to plan that, or sony were until microsoft took the heat. sony is good at letting other companies take the heat lmao "anybody but us are the problem" they say
PS4 Games that run at 30fps feel like they have huge input lag on PS5
Scuba Tank go brrr
It better be the same for that price.
Ha no kidding! But never forget the launch ps3 my friend, where it was supposedly "hardware" backwards compatible, but still added lag to ps2 games (not a lot of people know that).
NO, you CAN'T just sell your PS4 to your friends and go with a PS5. I have a lot of, and really enjoy playing, my VR library on my PS4. As far as I know, you can't play the PS4 VR games on the PS5 VR. So, you lose ALL of those games. And the PS4 is NOT the best console for SHMUPS and Arcade Games (of the big 3 consoles it's actually the worst). I could probably list 100 games you can't play on the PS4 or the PS5 because they aren't there. You would have to buy all 3 modern consoles to get all of the games that are out there, then you're STILL going to be missing games. Companies that develop and port video games are allergic to money.
Ha I was mostly kidding with that comment, it s always good to have a backup just in case
What's so lame about the PS5 input lag on PS4 games?
It s the same, so it s not lame :-) it would be cool if it had less lag though
(I torrented a few shmups and they ran better)
Ha crazy!
Time to sell the PS4. It's just taking up space. I don't even play Tekken on playstation.
Ha me neither, it s my virtua fighter and shmup machine
Dunno about input lag but for some reason my PS5 has a hard time with KoF 2000 when it works perfectly on PS4. Orochi Saga has no issues tho.