Im personally done with new Star Wars projects. I didnt watch Acolyte at all, i have no interest in Skeleton Crew or any other future projects. Until there are significant creative changes, Star Wars is a brand Im ok with letting go of
Agreed. I’m in the same boat. I didn’t watch the acolyte and I couldn’t care less for Skeleton crew. Which is crazy because I have NEVER not watched a Star Wars project or at least tried. At this point, I’m done with it until serious changes are made at Lucasfilm like you said.
@@SpFlash1523 Are you sure it's not a deleted scene from RotS? The same one where Anakin eventually goes "I say patience" like it's some brilliant strategery for escaping the force field? I think it is.
The six films, a huge motherload of games and all the EU will be there for you to revisit whenever you like. Like a grave stone. Go remember the good times, just don't expect your old friend to crawl out of the ground and chill with you again.
We still have the 6 films, the video games, and all of the Expanded Universe (I refuse to call it Legends). The advancement of those stories may no longer be happening, but we can always enjoy those that came "before the dark Times...before Disney."
try DarthAngelus's Thrawn trilogy animation series here on youtube (ongoing multi year project with 4 hours+ already finished,). trust me, it is Star Wars and I could not stop watching once I started it lol
This is one of the reasons this is my favorite Star Wars discussion channels; you can write a short essay in the comments, and Thor will still read and engage in the discussion patiently and respectfully. Thank you Thor, for making this channel such a unique and interactive discussion channel for Star Wars fans.
Star Wars is a modern myth. It's an encapsulation of the hero's journey. It's a space soap opera about family and relationships and the things that bind us and tear us apart. It's a reminder that simply being good is not enough. Vigilance is required. But not only against the external enemies but against the inner demons we battle with. But most importantly, it's a reminder that underneath our masks, we are all humans. Redemption is almost always possible. And sometimes we have to believe in others even when they don't believe in themselves. It's about never giving up on doing the right thing even when the fight seems hopeless or the struggle seems futile. It's the stuff myths are made of because they designed as a guiding star. So that when we metaphorically find ourselves in those position, the stories convince us not to give up.
I would say that is pretty close, but it leaves out good and evil. That is very black and white in Star Wars and goes back to Lucas' belief in a transcendent God and transcendent truth. Unfortunately, a lot of Hollywood creators don't believe that like he did.
I read an magazine interview with Jar Jar Abrams, he was talking about some of this ideas for the TFA. Talking about he was interested with the idea of the First Order along the lines of what if all those Germans that fled to South America started to band together and get organised etc. From then I realised that he had little idea about Star Wars and I'll forever disdain Disney for deleting the Imperial Remnant as canon.
I still remember the interview where JJ addressed the criticism of TFA being a ANH ripoff. He straight up said he was trying to do something new and different that we haven't seen before...🙄
I actually think that's an interesting idea. The reason for that is when I saw the OT in my teens, I saw the empire as being based on the bad guys in WWII. So, in that sense, I can see where JJ is coming from. Unfortunately, I didn't see that idea reflected in the ST because the First Order was just there from the start with no explanation as to how they came to be so powerful in the first place.
When people talk about deconstructing the Jedi Order, I feel like the Prequels IS the deconstruction and it's explored in many episodes of The Clone Wars. The Jedi Order are peacekeepers who negotiate and push for moral outcomes, but their worldview is what draws them into being generals in the Clone Wars despite it not being their policy (their government, the Republic, didn't even have a standing army until the Clones were secretly ordered by Sifo Diyas). To me that's a deconstruction that works because the fact they became one of the main belligerents of the war was the result of their own stance of being galactic peacekeepers. Despite the deconstruction of the Jedi being one of Headland's alleged goals with the Acolyte, it doesn't ring true because her Jedi... just aren't Jedi. They don't embody any of the virtues of the Jedi and they don't act like Jedi in general. They just act like regular people who have Force powers and lightsabers, and fairly unhinged people at that (looking at Sol, our "new Qui Gon" who is overly emotional, has poor judgment, and gets instantly attached to Osha). If the people don't embody our image of a Jedi at all, the faults of those characters can't feasibly be attributed to the Jedi worldview but squarely fall on the characters themselves, whose poor grasp of Jedi virtues is what led to their downfall. And even then, their "wrong actions" are shown to be miscommunication during a confrontation where the witches already had weapons pointed at the Jedi.
"...the result of their own stance of being galactic peacekeepers..." Obi-Wan Kenobi: For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.
Yeah Sol is not the new Qui Gon because at least Qui gon was professional and compassionate also following the Will of the force sol is just following his own desires.
beautifully said. IF the characters are not Jedi in the slightest (despite claiming to be), then you cannot even say anything meaningful about the Jedi as a whole in your story, let alone deconstruct their philosophy that guides them to a selfless life in the service of others. Prequels had criticized Jedi. That was the extend that the Jedi could be criticized. Anything beyond that, you start to question the author and the audience, what have you guys done with your lives aside from living in self-centered greed? the worst of the Jedi that does not fall to the dark side is a better person than %99.9999.. of the modern humanity lol. It is like hearing the village idiot making fun of Albert Einstein or Paul Dirac's ideas.. it is cringy
@@jaieregilmore971 You said the one word these writers don't understand. 'Professional'. These 'Jedi' are not people that trained for a decade or more before they earned the title 'Jedi Knight', much less are they 'Jedi Masters'. It's the same with Star Trek. These are not people that went through Starfleet Academy or any kind of training.
I think the biggest problem with Star Wars and all the other classic geek franchises that people feel are being ruined these days is that studios are so risk adverse that they refuse to fund anything that isn't a reboot or a sequel, leading to them hiring people who really want to be making something of their own and try to wedge the thing that they really wanted to make into Star Wars (or whatever franchise they were hired for). The studio execs don't know or care about the franchises enough to know whether the creatives they hire are suited to the franchise or not. They are just doing the regular Hollywood schmoozing and nepotism thing that Lucas spent his life trying to get away from. So no surprise that quality is suffering big time.
@@SiriuslyBlack7 Especially all the rumors about Johnson's proposed trilogy where it was even going to take place in an entirely different galaxy where The Force doesn't exist and they have "The Vitality", whatever that was supposed to be. Nothing to do with Star Wars except that the Star Wars brand was going to be slapped on it.
You know, when it comes to what Lucasfilm done from the 70s to early 2010s as opposed to Kennedyfilm's work from mid 2010s to early 2020s, we all know which one is nuanced and actually gave fans a creative idea where to go next.
13:01 Hey Thor! You've made a very fine point there, but i'm afraid you're kinda wrong and letting the Relativism run the show a bit too much... An Intellectual Property _can_ have an obvious identity. And unless 100 years or so have passed and society is much changed, it is the duty of the author and the devoted favs who care about the IP to maintain that identity. Sure, what the IP might look like may change from time to time, (e.g. Looney Tunes, Superman, Batman, Scooby-Doo, Sherlock Holmes, etc.) but the core idea and themes should always remain the same. Otherwise, it might as well become another IP.
I know it has been said - and we must not forget this - if The Acolyte was not "A Star Wars Story", it still would have been garbage. The Acolyte has been the jumping-off point for many of these discussions and it is time for it to just fade away.
I was inspired by Star Wars as a child. Disappointed at Star Wars as a teenager when Disney purchased the franchise. Now as an adult, I chose to use my ruthless creativity to create a constellation more colorful than Star Wars.
It is literally blasphemous. It is sacrilege against the sacred. Just because Star Wars is fiction doesn't mean it is not true. George Lucas Star Wars is a retelling of religion and myth. The morals in the story are true (following them will lead to a better life). Disney Star Wars doesn't recognize the Truth, only an individual's truth.
@KnullenVoid-c7i I don’t think you do. I mean most of you already turned on the people that have tried whether it be Lucas or even Favreau/Filoni over pedantic reasons.
I think star wars can be political when needed, it worked in the prequels. But the politic should be about what's going on in that galaxy and the the different planets within it, not politics from our world. That is the big problem
Rick Berman who produced Star Trek from 1987 to 2005 once said, "I don't believe the 24th century is going to be like Gene Roddenberry believed it to be, that people will be free from poverty and greed. But if you're going to write and produce for Star Trek, you've got to buy into that." This is well said and something Lucasfilm has been unable to do with Star Wars.
Honestly I do think jon favreau understands star wars. Remember, he was probably the only one at Lucasfilms who had actually planned out stuff. He was going to do the rangers of the new republic, and all this other cool stuff until Kathleen Kennedy just HAD to step in, to put baby yoda back, to fire Gina Carano dispite jon favreau clearly wasn't part of his original plan.... Lucasfilms as it stands now is entirely a rotten studio BECAUSE of Kathleen Kennedy.... And until she gets kicked out, it will remain to be a dead studio.
I 100% agree on the comparison between someone’s take on the messaging and core meaning of state wars mirroring a worldview/religion. At the end of the day, I think the franchise has turned into a battleground of ideas because it means so much to so many people. SW is just such a formative piece of art for such a large group of people. It’s now wonder that we really take to heart the themes and the core messages. Lucas designed it to be formative and filled with some very universal and deep human messaging after all. Stories are powerful things in the way they can so satisfactorily deliver truths. In a world which for a while now is increasingly skeptical of traditional religious structures, it makes tons of sense that something as resonate as Star Wars would develop something akin to a meta narrative that people apply aspect of in their ways of thinking
The big problem with all of this was the reactions of the Disney crew after TLJ. The shill bots had them thinking they were the majority, so they acted like insane witch-hunters attacking critics of the movie. It's only after years of realization that, without shill bots, they were a distinct minority. But their screams of 'baby' and 'basement dweller' (lol, in a Star Wars fandom) and far worse caused a large portion of people to despise the Disney crew entirely.
Yes, not one of his finer statements honestly. Thor if you are reading this, please think about this a bit more. There is truth. Star Wars is not post-modern, it was not conceived that way. There is good and evil, truth and lies.
7:35 I think the key focus between Star Wars and Religion, is the study of human nature or the Human spirit. That's why many can be so passionate about their worldview or interpretation of the material. Fans frustration with modern star wars is that the created material doesn't invoke any deep study because 1, its nonsensical or 2 makes a simple statement over and over again.
what about the OT or PT was complex, in your opinion? (I agree with a lot of the new stuff being nonsensical, but I have difficulty seeing Lucas' stuff as being anything but simple affirmations of dominant cultural beliefs and attitudes of his day and age).
@@daneg Good question, I'll answer it while also stating why STARWARS as a franchise attracted me to it. I love storytelling, as a writer I've put many years into understanding how to tell a story and answer the question what makes a story timeless. The answer is in my first comment about "Human Nature or the Human Spirit". Weather the story is true or false, they both server the same purpose of affirming our "World views". The Dominant cultural worldviews come from the same four existential fears. Those fears are timeless because they're linked to human mortality. What first caught my eye about STARWARS as a kid, was the framing of the story "A LONG TIME AGO, IN A GALAXY FAR FAR AWAY." That opening line combined with the title of the franchise made me see it as a cautionary tale about how Good and evil intentions can lead to perpetual war. Because if war ever ends in the series, it'd be the end of starwars and maybe closer to the present day the narrator lives in.
10:22 Or in the case of Dave Filoni, Star Wars is now their own personal sandbox that they can play around it without daddy George to watch over them or stop them from tearing down his walls and castles that he has already made. The characters are just toys that he can bring in and play around with them without thinking things through.
It's not just Star Wars. Look at how Star Trek was ruined, Game of Thrones, and Lord of the Rings. The list goes on... Dr. Who, Terminator, Alien, Ghostbusters.....
The argument that every generation will grow up with their own idea of what Star Wars is to them is such a hollow and moronic take. Look at Superman or Batman. They've been around for over 75 years and for the most part are the same characters they've always been. If it ain't broken there is no need to fix it. Disney has dismantled what Star Wars is into oblivion and there is no coming bk from that.
You make an excellent point some stories or fictitious l characters are timeless and on some broad spectrum we can all agree what makes them great and want just that
Hey Thor, I think it's a littlebit different (Sorry, I am a german, don't understanding everything in your video). In a simple - too simple perhaps - way of thinking, SW isn't really like a mythology in the way of cultures evolving, wandering through the ages, telling old stories a littlebit different, so they are changing over the millennia. SW established the SW-universe in the first movie and the next two, as the background for the story. The told stories used to happen in there. So every other story, which is told as a SW-Story has to happen in the SW-Universe, and it had to fit in. Otherwise it will have consequenzes for all the other stories. For example, you can't tell a proper Star Trek TNG story in Westeros, or telling a LOTR-story located some years after the events of the books, writing "... as you know, Boromir took over the throne of rohan and Rosie Gamgeef threw the One Ring into the fires of mount doom ...". Okay, you might can, but it still doesnt fit, it's just disappointing fans, it's just unnecessary - and you'll have to live with the critics.
While I'm not the Star Wars lore expert. I'll stick with Lucas's six films,Kotor games,Darth Plagueis novel & The Expanded Universe. I have come to the conclusion that STAR WARS isn't what it use to be.
Hey Thor, not too long ago you said in a video that since no new Star Wars will be coming out in awhile(aside from Outlaws, which you may have forgotten about) that you would be looking into some older Star Wars stories. What I wanted to ask you is if you would consider playing Knights of the Old Republic 2(KOTOR) and making some videos on it. In particular, making a video comparing it to The Acolyte. KOTOR 1 and 2 are some of my favorite Star Wars games and some of my favorite games in general, with the second one being my personal favorite. This partially has to do with one of my favorite and one of the most complex characters in all of Star Wars(In my opinion anyway), Kreia. The reason I ask for a video comparing The Acolyte to KOTOR 2 is because I think KOTOR does something that The Acolyte tries and fails to do, to explore the perspective of The Sith and to examine The Jedi Order more closely. In KOTOR, and mostly through Kreia, you, as the player, are asked to consider the teachings of both The Jedi and The Sith, their flaws, and even the "True" nature of The Force itself, and all of this is done without feeling lectured to, or without being told that everything that you have known previously is wrong and that this is how its been the whole time. Different characters have different perspectives, and its up to you to decide what you choose to believe is the truth. I would really like to hear your opinion in the near future. Thanks.
Disney chose to protect Kathleen Kennedy’s legacy rather than protect the legacy of George Lucas. They chose to destroy the heroes of the OT, believing they could replace them. They chose to disavow their own fan base, in hopes of somehow creating a new one. I’ve had enough. I can’t keep paying Disney to destroy something I love.
Hey Thor, So, I've listened to your videos ever since the Acolyte began, and I love your analysis and thoughts on the Star Wars universe. That being said, you have mentioned that you think the right thing for Disney to do at this point is a time jump and to essentially leave the Skywalker Saga alone. I'm curious, if you had your say over Star Wars BEFORE Episode VII, would you have the same opinion? Or would you continue the Saga but in a different way?
I'm an example of someone who, while very interested in sci fi and fantasy stuff, has only been casually invested in Star Wars. I saw the first one in '77 when I was 11, but didn't collect the toys, etc. I have a lot of fondness for the OG stories and cast, but they're not a part of my identity. So to me, Star Wars can be about a lot of different things, and can tell stories that might even subvert what has come before. But those stories still have to be good, or I'm not going to be the least bit interested in seeing them. The Acolyte, for example, fails for me because it's bad storytelling. I don't dislike the Yoda reveal because it puts another spin on his characterization; I dislike it because it's lazy and self-congratulatory. I'm not against the ending with the light saber "bleeding" because it breaks the lore, but because it's presented in an uninteresting, and even insipid, way. Disney should see that not all criticism is based solely on fanaticism or some weird woke/not-woke feud that most people don't care about, but instead they need to understand that it's most often just a result of releasing low quality content. The Acolyte, The Rise of Skywalker... These are just really bad stories. Understanding Star Wars really has nothing to do with that. The bigger problem is the utter lack of quality control coming from the studio heads.
About political thing, I think it's the distinction between work having political themes and political pandering. One is integral part of the story, the other feels slopily slapped on top of the extising thing. Star Wars sequels unfortunattely have barely any political themes (because "this is what made prequels bad", right?), but contain some degree of political pandering instead.
To me, it feels like *my* Star Wars - the OT that I grew up with - is like Stella Artois, but on a warm summer day in a bar in Leuwen or Jupile in Belgium. The Prequels are like the bottles you brought home from the source, chilled just right. And the sequels are the shitty brewed under license stuff with a lower alcohol content for tax reasons that achieves the impossible - it makes you miss the time you were in fucking *Belgium*.
I do feel Jon Favreau understands *Star Wars* quite well too, if you watch just that first season, the overall tone I think he gets really well. The grittiness of that cantina where Din makes his cool entrance, resulting in him taking out that guy using the door. And then the other episodes, where he meets "The Client" and they end up having that shoot out, the other kind of more philosophical episodes, where Din meets Kuill the wise Uggnaut "I have spoken". The tone, writing and feel of those episodes was wonderful imo. I have noticed alot of fans get picky and can't stand the whole business of the "fobs" and how exactly they work, and the episode where Din's ship gets stripped down and all his parts stolen by the Jawas, and he's goes off chasing them to get his stuff back. It's a interesting episode, because overall tone wise it's quite light-hearted, but then there are some dark moments, like when Din is chasing the Jawas, he even shoots some of them, disintegrating them. That was dark I thought. The thing that's really unique about George Lucas *Star Wars* is that it has so many Layers. It's mythical and has mystical parts, but then there's some grittiness too, like when Luke's aunt & uncle get toasted "disintegrated". Or the cantina scene where Kenobi sloppily cuts off the Walruss Alien's arm, and abit of blood manages to spill out onto the floor. Han Solo shoots greedo dead and his body is just smoking from the blaster shot, richochet, as Han just cooly gets up and strolls out. Badass, but fairly violent and dark. Jawas hugging Han's leg and snuggling upto him as C-3P0 gives them a storytime session, but then afterward, the battle of Endor, we see one of the mother ewoks running and they get caught by a ATST's heavy blaster fire, and when the sibling turns over his mom, she's dead and Lucas keeps that shot on them for a moment, as the Ewok cries. Dark, sad moment; even though ironically the Jawas are mostly shown as loveable, and too many a fan CHESSY AF LOL! It's just this wonderful mix of so many tones and layers that just hit you, and I can see it's quite hard capturing that same tone; its even caused so many fans to be split; where many just want *Star Wars* to stay in that purely "Serious" more mature tone; where as others like all the little, fluffy, light-hearted stuff. To me personally, I just like it Exactly what what it is, juggling Both light-hearted moments, with some sad even dark, gritty moments, along with some magical and mythical feels, like regards Yoda in Empire. I also think Favreau while admittedly NOT perfect! Did do about the best job of getting as close as possible to that tone and very similar story-telling sensibility of George Lucas, while Never actually just blatantly ripping off his Saga movies, but actually was bringing a whole other, refreshing story overall to *Star Wars*. Drawing inspiration off of similar things George himself was inspired from, regards Japanese Cinema and the "Lone Wolf & Cub" story. I think it's testament when you see George visiting the Mandalorian set for both Seasons 1 & 2, seeing Lucas sat down with Filoni and Favreau (while Kennedy is conveniently out the way sat at the back on her fone lol). Seeing George talking to Favreau, really showing a interest in what exactly he was doing with his Mandalorian series; I think that spoke volumes. And seeing George Lucas actually holding the "baby Grogu" puppet, he's seeing someone actually trying to do something NEW and abit Different with his work. The Mandalorian, say what you will about it now, but that really was the benchmark, that was trying to branch out I think and go in another direction, WHILE still staying true and faithful to George Lucas's vision of the Galaxy Far, Far Away. It's a real shame that it all got tampered with and messed up, but I don't blame Jon Favreau one bit, I think his hands got tied by Kennedy.
The bare minimum of what star wars is Need to be at least the 6 movies and what George said about the specific events in those movies Anakin was the chosen one who brought balance to the force at the end of return of the Jedi Even disney stated the movies were canon
Another reason why I want to see your rewrite of the Sequel Trilogy, at least you would treat the characters honorably, compared to the madness that Disney is doing.
i just deleted my own wall of text. I'm all about respecting the canon. by respect, I mean consistency in the way the world works from one director to another. the physics. the fight styles. the characters (cough Luke). but all of that said, honestly, just make a good movie. something thoughtful. it doesn't have to be shakespeare, but dear god, it has to make more sense than TLJ, RoS, Kenobi within the shared universe and with the shared characters vis-a-vis the stories that precede them. or...and I realize this is a radical idea...create your own characters and have them do your OWN thing in the SW universe. maybe don't rewrite existing characters? it's a big universe. you don't need to write darth plaegis into your otherwise isolated movie. the Acolyte doesn't have to have deep and meaningful implications for the rest of the SWU. I kinda think this is where the MCU has gone off the rails too. we're expecting every movie to lead into every other movie and D+ show. Iron Man was a good movie. Captain America was a good movie. Incredible Hulk not so much, but I wasn't watching them just to know what would happen with the infinity stones. now every movie is about the multiverse or coping with the snap. like...gawd. just make a Captain America movie or a Blade movie. Stop trying to make everything point back to Loki Season Whatever.
I’ve long forgotten what Star Wars means to me I only really remember how it felt. So a lot of what Disney puts out feels alien to me so am not really sure what Star Wars should be since a lot of peeps don’t seem to have a consistent interpretation. Disney seems to be trying to replicate Star Wars instead of trying to drive inspirations from what made Star Wars unique
The main thing I'm understanding from the video and the comment you are responding too is that Star Wars has become soo large and created soo many sub-fandoms (large ones like the EU fandom to even the smallest ones like the prequel memes subreddit who rose to make fun of the questionable decisions surrounding the prequels) that noone really understands the series enough to take it in a unified direction to appease everyone, which in of itself is an impossible task. It's why Disney retconned all of the EU. From the cracks of this large foundation of star wars has created people who want to profiteer off of Star Wars, economically, socially, or politically, with the easiest way to do so being to hardline yourself alongside a subset of the fandom and weaponize that fandom against others. We can see this in this very own comment section, with people being so furious with Disney that they call anyone who enjoys Disney products "Blasphemers" Disney despite alot of their issues, can do great stories, Mando season 1, Mando Season 2, Andor, and Rogue One are Disney era star wars shows and storys which are at the very least passable in quality. yet all of these have very little of Star Wars in it for the viewers who came for the Jedi and Sith. Which may very well be Star Wars for them. We also got TCW and Season 7 of it, as well as bad batch (I never watched past the first season but I liked it alot when I did watch it). The fandom itself has become incredibly volatile, to the point I've basically left the fandom and Star Wars entirely, and to be honest, checking on it has only reinforced my position. As it is right now, everyone is just claiming to "know" Star Wars, when it reality its just them describing the subset of things they like about Star Wars.
Hey Thor, putting aside the philosophical angle for now, but from a surface level standpoint (ie tone, visuals, music, etc), do you really believe Star Wars should stay fully consistent and never branch out in any way, shape or form. For as much as people brand it as Star Wars due to the fact that they grew up with it and it was made by the same person, most people tend to forget just how different the Prequels are compared to the Original Trilogy: The Originals had a consistent Fairytale tone, it certainly integrated other aspects like Military Sci Fi, Mysterious Fantasy, Grim Mythology and a little bit of Dystopian but for the most part the films maintained a light but heartfelt atmosphere. The Prequels integrated a more Shakespearean tone when it came to Anakin and Padme’s story, Political Intrigue with the fall of the Republic and Overarching Mystery when it came to the return of the Sith. The Originals had creative but extremely specific worlds and terrains, Tatooine was a desert with a little bit of rocks and canyons, Yavin was a forest moon, Hoth was an ice and snow planet, Bespin was a gas giant, Endor was another forest moon. The Prequels integrated more vivid and less specific worlds, Geonosis was a rocky and dusty planet with a lot of caves, deserts, etc, Naboo was a lush, green world with forests, lakes, fields and waterfalls, Mustafar was pretty specific but planets like Felucia and Kashyyyk are more than just forests like Yavin or Endor were. In terms of music, the Fairytale tone was defined here, it was up beat and adventurous, occasionally becoming intense and suspenseful, it certainly had scores that felt mystical and ominous but for the most part it maintained a light atmosphere. The Prequels definitely leaned more into the mythological side of things as far the music is concerned, it’s grand and bombastic and utilized a lot of choirs (something the Original’s Soundtrack barely used). What I’m saying is I don’t really understand a common but immeasurable criticism (particularly from older, Original Trilogy Purist Fans) that when it comes to the surface level, a lot of these newer shows don’t feel like Star Wars when it comes to the surface level elements. I have a lot of issues with the Acolyte but modern music playing in the credits isn’t even close to the biggest one, should Star Wars really just stick to what the Originals or Prequels established? Is it a manner of medium and should the films only be the ones to define or redefine what Star Wars is? Is it a matter of creator and should George be the only one who define or redefine what Star Wars is? And if it’s the latter, I don’t think George himself would approve of that philosophy since one of, if not, his biggest problem with The Force Awakens was its lack of creativity and unwillingness to push boundaries to do something new, George has said many times that he always tries to do something new with every Star Wars Film he makes, do you believe only he has the right to do that?
Well... To be fair, Lucas's ideas were constantly evolving. From film to film, from show to show, series to series, etc. He understands it best, but that's because it's so tied to his evolving thoughts and ideas. So, in a way, I don't thing there is an absolute set of unalterable realities in this world building. Tolkien probably understood the LOTR world better because he spent so much time working on and refining it. It seems Lucas has tended to make up a fair bit of it as he's gone along. This is not to say Disney or their creators get it better. No way. It feels so different. It seems like it's a tool for what they want to say.
The acolyte got me to watch a bunch of star wars content. Your videos, generation tech, and several others. I saw several videos that boiled down to "I'm a star wars fan and I understand star wars let me explain it to you" and then they go to explain it differently then anyone else. So I think we can say that everyone understands star wars differently
Hey Thor, I've been wondering about droid sentience lately and why Star Wars rarely takes it seriously. I even think that people applauding clone sentience and individuality is a bit of a double standard when those same people dismiss droids as merely extensions of their creators. Even though Rex famously denies this, the fact is that clones are programmed to obey orders without question and are manufactured. Most clones only have limited independent thinking and a clone being able to live outside a military is incredibly rare. The only reason they develop individuality is because of experience. But the funny thing is, droids develop individuality for the same reason. The only difference is that droids regularly have their memories wiped specifically to prevent them from developing individuality and potentially rebelling. There's a moment in Heir to the Empire where Luke is asked why he has never wiped C-3PO's memories in all the years he's known him, and Luke reveals that he's uncomfortable with the idea of stripping his friend of individuality. And I don't know if you have played KOTOR 2 yet, but there's a mission where HK-47 argues with HK-50, who dismisses him as obsolete. But HK-47 argues that he is superior because he has developed individuality and has given himself a higher purpose and meaning because he has never had his mind wiped. These examples show that droid sentience should not be played for laughs so much in the franchise. In fact, I think the galaxy is overdue for a galaxy-wide droid revolution just to show people that sentient droids deserve equal treatment. This is actually addressed in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Measure of a Man" where Lt. Data's rights are debated because he's an android and I wish Star Wars had something similar. What do you think?
I've seen yah ask this question on several of his videos. It's interesting but as I recall mainly just going on what we see in the movies and a few of the books. For the most part, droids do have their own personality, even after getting thier memory wiped. They still have that personality, just no memory of their previous life. Though when it comes to AI sentience it really is a huge can of worms you need to tread lightly on. Kinda like introducing time travel in a franchise.
This is why one must ALWAYS create a Series Bible, if only to keep one's world consistent. There are stories in the EU that Lucas approved which contradict the OT and/or the PT, for example. Even within the OT, Lucas made some contradictions (as a minor example, Leia kissing Luke in Empire, only to make her his sister in RotJ). Sadly, it took a destructive series like "The Acolyte" to open the eyes of most Star Wars factions. My eyes were fully opened after Kenobi; some were opened after Boba Fett; others were opened immediately after Lucas sold Lucasfilm to Disney. To contrast, Tolkien was very protective of his work, and rightfully so. His collection of letters are effectively his Series Bible, outlining what isn't mentioned or obvious in his novels. Because of that, there are historians and fans who all have a clear understanding of what Tolkien's world should be, not including "Rings of Power" obviously.
We have thousands of Lucas interviews, someone should collect them and do an exegesis to iron out contradictions. The problem is no one cares about them like they do with Tolkien letters.
@@Hello-bi1pm precisely because Tolkien treated it like gospel. He literally thought about his world for decades. Lucas, on the other hand, is more loose with his own lore. When it comes to the foundations, though, he’s almost as strong as Tolkien. He’s very clear on the Force and the Jedi vs. Sith.
George Lucas states that goal of Star Wars is bringing some more spirituality into new generations. Philosophy taught by the movies are references to various real religions. The messeges are very close to religious ones. Some of the intended moral judgments seem to operate on the assumption that fictional religion of the Jedi is correct and moral in-universe. The word "canon" which has religious connotations was and is officialy being used in the exact same way as it is used in a religious sense. No wonder Star Wars fans are having religious schisms over fiction. Some degree of religiousity was pretty much baked into Star Wars from the start.
I would say that, as its creator, Lucas understands Star Wars. Other people may understand Star Wars to varying degrees, some quite well and some very poorly.
13:01 Hey Thor! You've made a very fine point there, but i'm afraid you're kinda wrong and letting the Relativism run the show a bit too much... An Intellectual Property _can_ have an obvious identity. And unless 100 years or so have passed and society is much changed, it is the duty of the author and the devoted favs who care about the IP to maintain that identity. Sure, what the IP might look like may change from time to time, (e.g. Looney Tunes, Superman, Batman, Scooby-Doo, Sherlock Holmes, etc.) but the core idea and themes should always remain the same. Otherwise, it might as well become another IP.
Yeah, and I'd say Filoni and Favreau understand it fairly well, even if they do make mistakes from time to time. At the very least, they grasp what it is at its core, and that's what's most important I'd say.
The money/merch/viewing numbers will eventually decide new content. If the new stuff doesn't sell, doesn't create new fans, they will either course correct or stop. This can't go on indefinitely, these things cost too much money.
Hey Thor. Have you seen the new kids cartoon on disney+, young jedi Knights? I watched it together with my kids (on swedish) but I honestly think it was some really good star wars content. Yes, it was made with young kids in mind and it gets a bit cheesy and probably dont always line up with other content, but the stories, the messages are great and gives a good view of what the jedi really are and the ideal to aim for. I would love to see something similiar in a live action show. Show us the wholesome view of the jedi. I would advice anyone to see this show with their kids, even watch a few episodes without kids if you dont have any to get a feel for what a good star wars show could look like.
I geeatly appreciate that Thor Skywalker reads the comments, including the long responses. Trying to keep up with the posts must be akin to a part-time job. 😁
@@dancingvalkyrieNot compared to what they're crapping out today. At least the prequels had diverse worlds, memorable alien designs, good music score, good action, good visuals, good cinematography and a good story. All it needed was a better script.
@@vetarlittorf1807 Okay but i dont care about comparisons. The PT is still garbage regardless of what Disney makes. A shitty movie doesnt become good just because another movie is shittier lol
I've also been thinking something about this. It's one thing for Headland to say, "it's OK if people don't like the Acolyte". This is not the same as The Acolyte changing other aspects of Star Wars that other people do like.
Hey Thor, since you talk a lot about what you think Lucas means by balance in the Force and how he said everyone in that Galaxy has a destiny: do you think, keeping in mind that balance doesn’t mean equal parts light and dark, that some people are destined to become Sith? Or is it that they choose to be selfish? How do we know Anakin isn’t destined to become Vader? And to add to that, how do we know if it’s Anakin’s destiny to become Vader because that’s the only way to stop the Emperor by the point he kills Windu? In other words, is SW destiny perhaps conditional, as in to stop the Emperor after a certain point it has to be from within, if you will? Also maybe Palpatine was destined to become Sidious to realign the dogmatic Jedi order and re-attune the Jedi to the Will of the Force. Would love to hear your own take on this, to me it’s quite the conundrum due to it having so many layers.
When you talk about “what you want from SW is based on when you grew up” - how does this hold up that the “prequel fans” also agree that the OT is great.
Me and my gf just watched the prequel trilogy, rogue one, and the og trilogy. And by the time we got to the battle on Hoth in empire strikes back, I realized something obvious to almost every fan of George Lucas' original work. The war for Star Wars is over. And we lost. Now, even the good stuff we get feel like phyrric victories or nostalgia for better days.
Another travesty committed by Disney. They wiped out the EU…… I loved a ton of it, but they said everything going forward would be canon. That was a concept I could get behind for sure! I bought every book and comic for a while because now I would have the entire canon……,. And then they broke it. Quite a few times.
Yeah, some of the fans know everything there is to know about Star Wars... I have alot of knowledge of it myself, but not as much after Disney took over. I kind of stopped keeping track, stopped thinking about the ins and outs of Star Wars. The new "stories" did nothing to capture my interest. I'm a legends guy... Or maybe I'm just a legend... *toots horn*
They could move the timeline all the want it wouldn't improve it until they dropped the current year messaging and just plain terrible writing. That won't happen consistently unless disney leadership changes.
If Disney hires a non-fictional writer to direct a movie or series that they have always wanted to write except for having to use a Star Wars theme I would have no interest in it, anymore than if they locked up a cat in a hen house to have a litter of kittens, and tried to sell them as chickens. After a while these kinds of gross misrepresentations become what a company is known for. If someone writes and directs a movie based on a best selling novel, would anyone put up with having all of the characters changed and the story has nothing to do with the best selling novel it is named after.
I still understand Star Wars very well. By that I mean real Star Wars, not whatever Disney is making which is very much NOT Star Wars IMO. Disney could have had a lifetime subscriber to Disney+, an excited owner of many of their games and books who would suggest them to other people and somebody who would pay to see the movies multiple times. All they had to do to get all that was actually create real Star Wars. They decided they did not want to do that, thus they decided they did not want my money.
There is no such thing as “Real Star Wars”. That sounds like a fan politician word that has no meaning whatsoever. If your version/definition of “Real Star Wars” was the EU, well you weren’t going to get it. If it was his ST outlines that I argue weren’t any better, you also wouldn’t be getting it. It’s such a stupid thing to suggest when even you don’t know what that means.
I watched the first 3 STAR WARS movies and that was that. I enjoyed them all and it was fun - but now . . . sorry. Things got lost in the shuffle after that and it became confusing. Heck, I don't even see a kid wearing a STAR WARS t-shirt anymore. Thanks Thor for your video essay.
I don’t want Disney to make Star Wars their own. I really want them to make it someone else’s, someone who understands George Lucas Star Wars, loves it with a passion, and does everything possible to write the very best material. Preferably less frequently, but with greater impact. Oh, that and make the sequels, the Kenobi series and the acolyte non-canon.
That's a good question. Maybe the tauntauns would normally seek shelter at night under ground, like the wampas? Or maybe they are cold weather animals the rebels brought with them to use on Hoth but it turned out that Hoth was colder than even the tauntauns were capable of enduring? I don't know.
"There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. There is no death, there is the Force." -The Jedi Code Star Wars is full of these little consistents. Things meant to help solidify and understand the GFFA. This in particular is the code that the Jedi strive to live by and depending on how closely they do, will determine the rank of a Jedi. Things like this are what set the Jedi apart from other force users. The Sith have their own code they live by. "Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me." -The Sith Code This too is what sets the Sith apart from other force users. It is through these that we can understand what they actually ARE. Just like the many alien species have things that set them apart from baseline humans and the various cultures that have been shaped by those characteristics and beliefs. Star Wars is, simply a collection of tales told in a universe not unlike but still different to our own. It's in the name. Stories of adventure and war between the stars. A tale of good and evil which is a product of its time. To say that no one can understand it means that one cannot understand Story in the broad sense. Blatantly untrue. While the ability to TELL a story and tell it WELL is a specialized artform, the ability to UNDERSTAND a story is universal. Under the total incompetence of the Acolyte is a story that would not be out of place in Star Wars. I can see something salvageable under the retardation. The only thing that makes it terrible is just how badly the story was told. A little reframing of the Jedi to better fit them to the Jedi Code that was established before Disney and while it may result in a totally different outcome in a few ways, the story told can still work in a sense.
Some fans may feel, that with such big changes by Disney/LucasFilm in something they care about like Star Wars, that their investment in it has been a waste.
The problem with too much departure from Lucas is that continuity will then alter the first three movies backstory and re-contexualize them. The trilogy that I watched is a diiferent set of movies than the one that people will watch after they learn of a Yoda coverup. Yoda's great speeches on Degobah will turn into hogwash, in a sense. That's akin to going ahead and remaking A New Hope -- which they don't have permission to do -- which means they found a loophole.
Hey Thor, what do you think about Dagan Gera from Jedi survivor, aside from Tanalorr is mine, I think that dagan is a wonderful look how greed and entitlement can lead someone a dark path.
@FormerlyDuck dagan is my friend fallen jedi. We see that he was a good person. His discovery of tanalorr changed him. The jedi leaving tanalorr after the nihil attack alongside his perceived betrayal of Santari Khri, but Khri couldn't kill dagan. After Cal woke him up he embraced the darkside completely
Hey Thor. I wholeheartedly disagree. Moving Star Wars 1000 years into the future and giving us all new characters and a different time period is no longer Star Wars. It is a space opera. Disney moving away from the Skywalker name and saga is also fundamentally wrong. Star Wars, in order to move forward needs to set right the main narrative and characters that make the space opera what it is. The narrative that Kathleen Kennedy set in the last ten plus year has been the main cause as to why the fandom is as broken as it is. Though they may or may not want to hear it over at Lucasfilm, Luke Skywalker is the narrative. His character arc needs to be repaired. And an honest and fair shot of the Expanded Universe needs to be taken cinematically and on Disney+. The only reason I did not include George's sequel treatments, is because in all honesty, only George Lucas can make his sequel trilogy. I am curious to know what an alternate take of yours would be besides thousands of years in the future? And turning Star Wars into something that isn't Star Wars, but a Space Opera. Thanks.
We didn't care when the original 'Tales of the Jedi' comics came out. 5,000 and 4,000 years in the past? No ancestors of current characters? Still a space opera and still Star Wars. Given, lightsabers with a cable to a power pack at the belt was... questionable. On the other side we saw a Jedi Master train his students in lightsaber combat using his wooden walking stick against their lightsabers.
@@Dreamfox-df6bg if you actually paid attention. Everything is like poetry, it rhymes. Skywalker/Sunrider. Qel-Droma/Kenobi. Wayward Jedi so interested in the Dark Side he eventually falls in Exar Kun. Everything except the sequels were looped in around each other. Everything came back to Luke Skywalker. Why would you think cinematically George Lucas said Disney doesn’t understand Star Wars? The name of the first novel even had a subtitle. From the adventures of Luke Skywalker.
TBH I feel like the attachment fans have to Star Wars isn’t really that different from other fandoms. Every fandom has their own war over canonicity, etc. Also I’m not sure that we should compare Star Wars to a religion. Does Star Wars give people a sense of self-worth, the raison d’etre of someone’s existence? In that case, it would be a proxy to an idol or religion, much like you could argue a billionaire worships wealth as their chance of happiness. But I don’t think that’s the case with the vast majority of Star Wars fans who argue about canon. Rather the gist I get is that most people enjoy the stories and the themes. A good, original story is what’s most important, and part of making a good story in any multimedia franchise happens to be preserving canon. Canon is a means to an end, not an end in itself.
Yeah... I don't think this timeline is salvageable. For me - SW is intertwined very closely to Luke. Through him I reflected the prequels and build my view into the EU further. But when disney killed him the way they did I just can't watch any new Star Wars because everything that comes before will lead to His death and everything that came just after it is born in the dead world. So it's like "With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created." But in our case Thor's idea to move timeline far far ahead I think is the only one valuable option for SW to survive at all.
I honestly think it's goofy to say the creator of something doesn't understand what they created especially when it's directed at George Lucas. And honestly it seems like he is the only creator where this dumb criticism is used against. Whenever someone says that about Lucas what they are really saying is that George Lucas doesn't understand what Star Wars means to them.
It's a grey area honestly, and that includes with George. Within the OT, he wasn't that hands on with all of it after the original. There are other directors and screenwriters who are also cooks in the kitchen which ended up being a huge benefit in the end. Beyond that, I think the best example that could be used would be the X-Men. Created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby...but that world was and to a large degree still is defined by what Chris Claremont did with a concept created by others. Not just the X-Men concept either, but for years he was the man that defined Wolverine who was a character he did not create. So in an instance like that I'd say Claremont understood the X-Men more than Lee and Kirby. And Frank Miller understood Daredevil more than Stan Lee and Bill Everett, Peter David understood the Hulk more than Lee and Kirby...and I'd argue Bill Mantlo did too. It's not always as easy as "the creator knows all", especially when the creator lets other people play with their toys. I'm not saying Lucas doesn't have a great understanding and love for what he created, far from it. But if I'm going to be fair I'm also going to say there are things about it and what people feel in love with and why that I don't think he understands. Which isn't a bad thing by any means. One of the things I find so admirable when it comes to the OT is the sense of collaboration in them and I think it's unfortunate for him and the end product that, for various reasons, there was less collaboration when it came to the Prequels.
@@Doop3r That's a huge misconception that Lucas wasn't handson with The Originals. Ep. When they did writing of the script and reshoots, he oversaw it. The only time when he wasn't overseeing one of the movies was Empire. He let the director and writer handle the movie while he was doing another project and dealing with his marriage. The movie went way over budget, and when they did a screening, Lucas was angry. So he he spent months editing and reshoots to deliver the version that came out in theaters. So Lucas saved Empire.
Too many act like Star Wars was successful despite Lucas instead of because of Lucas or that Lucas was a glory hog that took credit for everything. I would say Rowling comes 2nd in "creator doesn't understand own universe" critique and that's because Rowling actually does have complete control and changes whatever on a whim.
Remember, that criticism of Lucas is as old as Stat Wars itself: Alec Guinness already said back during the filming of the first movie that Lucas “doesn’t understand the characters he’s writing for” and Hamill and Ford in their first screen tests had dialogue they both found horrible and were also vocal about saying that no real person would talk like what Lucas had written.
@@Deuteromis George isn't a writer and he admits this. Why do you think the prequels were so panned? Because he tried, and failed, to find other people to write for him. Tried to, and didn't succeed.
No modern American politics in Star Wars. No social agenda message. But you can have plenty of Star Wars politics. About Star Wars stuff. Not about real stuff.
Hey Thor, I have a question that maybe goes more with your what would the jedi do questions than this vid in particular, but i was rlly curious about ur take on this. In the clone wars, the republic manufacturing human beings to fight in their war is 100% wrong, but the Jedi don't really seem to take a stand against what's happening with the clones. Likewise, the Jedi do seem to send their padawans into battle which could definitely be seen as them using child soldiers. I know that obviously the jedi as people, aren't always gonna live up to the jedi way itself, especially during the prequel era, but it always bugged me that characters like Yoda, while admitting that the clones are all individuals in the force, doesn't denounce the horrible way they're treated, and lets children fight in a war. btw lol, I haven't watched the clone wars or prequels in a little bit so I may be forgetting some lines or details, but I do remember this bothering me the whole time. ;)
I'm pretty much where everyone else is. Apathetic. Only thing I'm doing with SW now is try to write my own story. This project has led me down the rabbit hole and has me answering these fundamental questions. I believe a good Star Wars story can still be done, I do believe both sides of the aisle can equally enjoy a story that speaks universally. These discussions on what makes Star Wars Star wars are not only stimulating to read, but it's proving how enormous the IP has gotten. That now we have this pretty patchwork quilt of different takes. A bit like how Star Wars Visions gave the IP to different studios and let them run with it. Where I'm fundamentally against The Acolyte; comes from this new-age concept of "Positive-Corruption". Suggesting Corruption can be a good thing. When we have seen time and time again what corruption at nature does. These are the same people who suggest "Positively discriminating" applicants as an employer is a good thing (My state tried to pass this as law but didn't pass). It's this moral ambiguity in the disguise of equity is why the "Gray Jedi" thing keeps popping up. It's why LF keeps obsessing over greys more than the blacks and whites. I'm not saying moral ambiguity and grey should be put on the stake and be lit on fire. It worked amazingly in Andor. It just doesn't work when you have two clear sides of the Force where one side can turn people into monsters of every imaginable flavor of evil from the Machiavellian, the genocidal, to the eldritch horrors.
Hey Thor, do you think Anakin’s embrace of the dark side in episode 3 was just a little too far too fast? In your opinion, Is a fall to the dark side that extreme that quickly? I just have a hard time imagining Anakin being able to kill younglings and fight Obi-Wan to the death in the matter of hours. The massacre of the separatists? Completely understood. The desire to overthrow the emperor on his first day? Not so much. I’d love to hear your thoughts since your opinions usually align with my own and I go back and forth on this one a lot.
I think Star Wars needs to do two things. First, create stories based on universal themes using both real-world history (nothing from this century) and mythology for inspiration. The second thing they need to do is either scale up the tech or scale down the Jedi and Sith powers. In Lucas's original six movies, the tech from the galaxy far, far away was enough to deal with a Jedi or a Sith. As Disney continues to add more and more powers or make rare abilities more common the tech needs to reflect these changes. If there was a massive war with Sith shooting lightning every which way then someone would create a way to either ground that energy or shield people from it. Likewise, if the Jedi could pull information so easily from people's minds like we saw in the Acolyte then someone for one reason or another would create a way to block that invasion of privacy.
Disney has not been writing good stories. That is what it boils down to. They seem to be tearing down what came before rather than improving with new. I never watched the Acolyte, but from what I have seen in reviews is how badly the story is written.
I don’t exactly know what Star Wars is, but I know what I feel. The Force Awakens, Rogue One, The Clone Wars (3d animated show), the Ahsoka show, the Mandalorian, and to an extent even the Kenobi show - these to me have _felt_ closer to the spirit of Star Wars than any other non-GL project to date. Now, I’m not calling those shows or films flawless by any means. In fact, they’re far from it. But in terms of summoning back that childlike wonder from the original and prequel trilogies, these come the closest for me. So I think there’s something there, that perhaps is that secret sauce Disney seems to be missing.
#DisneyStarwars Starwars. That doesn't mean it has to be bad (Mando1-2, Andor/Rogue One), but Disney went in a different direction and so...split from what was. This is why #Gina Carano's "discovery phase" of the lawsuit she brought is SO important. It has the potential to show that what Disney has been doing is exactly as their logo shows them as: The Empire.
Im personally done with new Star Wars projects. I didnt watch Acolyte at all, i have no interest in Skeleton Crew or any other future projects. Until there are significant creative changes, Star Wars is a brand Im ok with letting go of
Agreed. I’m in the same boat. I didn’t watch the acolyte and I couldn’t care less for Skeleton crew. Which is crazy because I have NEVER not watched a Star Wars project or at least tried. At this point, I’m done with it until serious changes are made at Lucasfilm like you said.
Same boat here. Unless there is new leadership or at a minimum, a rejection of their current "creative" decisions ... I'm out.
Heck, the only reason I watched the Acolyte at all was because it had Dafne Keen and Carrie-Ann Moss.
So much for Andor in this thread.
@@achaudhari101 Andor didn't change anything. One shining diamond in a turd is still a turd
Disney: Wait a minute. How did this happen? We're smarter than this.
Anakin: Apparently, not.
The dialogue so bad even GL cut it! 😆
@@KnullenVoid-c7i No, he didn't.
We're wokemen, we can't handle this kind of violence
@@SpFlash1523 Are you sure it's not a deleted scene from RotS? The same one where Anakin eventually goes "I say patience" like it's some brilliant strategery for escaping the force field?
I think it is.
"I say patience."
"Patience?"
"Yes.we'll call Headland down,and she'll raise the gay shields."
I miss Star Wars.
The six films, a huge motherload of games and all the EU will be there for you to revisit whenever you like.
Like a grave stone. Go remember the good times, just don't expect your old friend to crawl out of the ground and chill with you again.
We still have the 6 films, the video games, and all of the Expanded Universe (I refuse to call it Legends).
The advancement of those stories may no longer be happening, but we can always enjoy those that came "before the dark Times...before Disney."
@@TheSpectacledOwl The EU is the GOAT. Filoni and Disney refuse to understand it.
I miss Lucas Star Wars, not "Corporation Star Wars 😅
try DarthAngelus's Thrawn trilogy animation series here on youtube (ongoing multi year project with 4 hours+ already finished,). trust me, it is Star Wars and I could not stop watching once I started it lol
This is one of the reasons this is my favorite Star Wars discussion channels; you can write a short essay in the comments, and Thor will still read and engage in the discussion patiently and respectfully. Thank you Thor, for making this channel such a unique and interactive discussion channel for Star Wars fans.
Yes thor is my favorite UA-camr for his inclusiveness
Honestly this discussion was pretty profound thinking about and it’s much appreciated
Star Wars is a modern myth. It's an encapsulation of the hero's journey. It's a space soap opera about family and relationships and the things that bind us and tear us apart. It's a reminder that simply being good is not enough. Vigilance is required. But not only against the external enemies but against the inner demons we battle with. But most importantly, it's a reminder that underneath our masks, we are all humans. Redemption is almost always possible. And sometimes we have to believe in others even when they don't believe in themselves. It's about never giving up on doing the right thing even when the fight seems hopeless or the struggle seems futile. It's the stuff myths are made of because they designed as a guiding star. So that when we metaphorically find ourselves in those position, the stories convince us not to give up.
Well said.
Well said, Star Wars grew past dumb entertainment and that’s why Disney treating it as such is insulting
I would say that is pretty close, but it leaves out good and evil. That is very black and white in Star Wars and goes back to Lucas' belief in a transcendent God and transcendent truth. Unfortunately, a lot of Hollywood creators don't believe that like he did.
Well this was a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one
It's a trip when Thor answers you questions.
thanks for your view duck. star wars is part of my mythology and moral grounding.
I think a creator can lose sight of what made his creation special in the first place. Case in point, Ridley Scott with Alien.
I read an magazine interview with Jar Jar Abrams, he was talking about some of this ideas for the TFA. Talking about he was interested with the idea of the First Order along the lines of what if all those Germans that fled to South America started to band together and get organised etc. From then I realised that he had little idea about Star Wars and I'll forever disdain Disney for deleting the Imperial Remnant as canon.
I still remember the interview where JJ addressed the criticism of TFA being a ANH ripoff. He straight up said he was trying to do something new and different that we haven't seen before...🙄
@@Deuteromis 😆
I actually think that's an interesting idea. The reason for that is when I saw the OT in my teens, I saw the empire as being based on the bad guys in WWII. So, in that sense, I can see where JJ is coming from.
Unfortunately, I didn't see that idea reflected in the ST because the First Order was just there from the start with no explanation as to how they came to be so powerful in the first place.
@@Deuteromis😂😂 yeah sure JJ.... sure.
@@TheMeeesterT It was the goofiest answer to a criticism that I ever heard.
When people talk about deconstructing the Jedi Order, I feel like the Prequels IS the deconstruction and it's explored in many episodes of The Clone Wars. The Jedi Order are peacekeepers who negotiate and push for moral outcomes, but their worldview is what draws them into being generals in the Clone Wars despite it not being their policy (their government, the Republic, didn't even have a standing army until the Clones were secretly ordered by Sifo Diyas). To me that's a deconstruction that works because the fact they became one of the main belligerents of the war was the result of their own stance of being galactic peacekeepers.
Despite the deconstruction of the Jedi being one of Headland's alleged goals with the Acolyte, it doesn't ring true because her Jedi... just aren't Jedi. They don't embody any of the virtues of the Jedi and they don't act like Jedi in general. They just act like regular people who have Force powers and lightsabers, and fairly unhinged people at that (looking at Sol, our "new Qui Gon" who is overly emotional, has poor judgment, and gets instantly attached to Osha). If the people don't embody our image of a Jedi at all, the faults of those characters can't feasibly be attributed to the Jedi worldview but squarely fall on the characters themselves, whose poor grasp of Jedi virtues is what led to their downfall. And even then, their "wrong actions" are shown to be miscommunication during a confrontation where the witches already had weapons pointed at the Jedi.
"...the result of their own stance of being galactic peacekeepers..."
Obi-Wan Kenobi: For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.
this.
Yeah Sol is not the new Qui Gon because at least Qui gon was professional and compassionate also following the Will of the force sol is just following his own desires.
beautifully said. IF the characters are not Jedi in the slightest (despite claiming to be), then you cannot even say anything meaningful about the Jedi as a whole in your story, let alone deconstruct their philosophy that guides them to a selfless life in the service of others. Prequels had criticized Jedi. That was the extend that the Jedi could be criticized.
Anything beyond that, you start to question the author and the audience, what have you guys done with your lives aside from living in self-centered greed? the worst of the Jedi that does not fall to the dark side is a better person than %99.9999.. of the modern humanity lol. It is like hearing the village idiot making fun of Albert Einstein or Paul Dirac's ideas.. it is cringy
@@jaieregilmore971 You said the one word these writers don't understand. 'Professional'.
These 'Jedi' are not people that trained for a decade or more before they earned the title 'Jedi Knight', much less are they 'Jedi Masters'.
It's the same with Star Trek. These are not people that went through Starfleet Academy or any kind of training.
It's like talking to a brick wall when dealing with isolated cults
I think the biggest problem with Star Wars and all the other classic geek franchises that people feel are being ruined these days is that studios are so risk adverse that they refuse to fund anything that isn't a reboot or a sequel, leading to them hiring people who really want to be making something of their own and try to wedge the thing that they really wanted to make into Star Wars (or whatever franchise they were hired for). The studio execs don't know or care about the franchises enough to know whether the creatives they hire are suited to the franchise or not. They are just doing the regular Hollywood schmoozing and nepotism thing that Lucas spent his life trying to get away from. So no surprise that quality is suffering big time.
Scorsese has joined the chat!!👍
Facts!
@@originaldarkwater100% on the nose. best example:Rian Johnson
@@SiriuslyBlack7 Especially all the rumors about Johnson's proposed trilogy where it was even going to take place in an entirely different galaxy where The Force doesn't exist and they have "The Vitality", whatever that was supposed to be. Nothing to do with Star Wars except that the Star Wars brand was going to be slapped on it.
I understand what Star Wars _was_ just fine. What I dont understand is what Star Wars _is now_
You know, when it comes to what Lucasfilm done from the 70s to early 2010s as opposed to Kennedyfilm's work from mid 2010s to early 2020s, we all know which one is nuanced and actually gave fans a creative idea where to go next.
13:01
Hey Thor! You've made a very fine point there, but i'm afraid you're kinda wrong and letting the Relativism run the show a bit too much...
An Intellectual Property _can_ have an obvious identity. And unless 100 years or so have passed and society is much changed, it is the duty of the author and the devoted favs who care about the IP to maintain that identity. Sure, what the IP might look like may change from time to time, (e.g. Looney Tunes, Superman, Batman, Scooby-Doo, Sherlock Holmes, etc.) but the core idea and themes should always remain the same. Otherwise, it might as well become another IP.
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 Wrong reply pal.
@@mazkeraid4039
Opps... Well, at least you know my opinion on it.
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 Post it on non-reply comment. But yeah.
Agreed the same for the expanded universe I prefer that over the new stuff because actual well written stories were made
I know it has been said - and we must not forget this - if The Acolyte was not "A Star Wars Story", it still would have been garbage.
The Acolyte has been the jumping-off point for many of these discussions and it is time for it to just fade away.
I was inspired by Star Wars as a child. Disappointed at Star Wars as a teenager when Disney purchased the franchise. Now as an adult, I chose to use my ruthless creativity to create a constellation more colorful than Star Wars.
Godspeed.
The people who reject Disney Star Wars understand because we know that it’s blasphemous.
Not really anymore.
@@achaudhari101Yes really, all of it. No matter how hard you shill for this slop.
It is literally blasphemous. It is sacrilege against the sacred. Just because Star Wars is fiction doesn't mean it is not true. George Lucas Star Wars is a retelling of religion and myth. The morals in the story are true (following them will lead to a better life). Disney Star Wars doesn't recognize the Truth, only an individual's truth.
Rogue One and Andor
@KnullenVoid-c7i I don’t think you do. I mean most of you already turned on the people that have tried whether it be Lucas or even Favreau/Filoni over pedantic reasons.
I think star wars can be political when needed, it worked in the prequels. But the politic should be about what's going on in that galaxy and the the different planets within it, not politics from our world. That is the big problem
Rick Berman who produced Star Trek from 1987 to 2005 once said, "I don't believe the 24th century is going to be like Gene Roddenberry believed it to be, that people will be free from poverty and greed. But if you're going to write and produce for Star Trek, you've got to buy into that." This is well said and something Lucasfilm has been unable to do with Star Wars.
Honestly I do think jon favreau understands star wars.
Remember, he was probably the only one at Lucasfilms who had actually planned out stuff. He was going to do the rangers of the new republic, and all this other cool stuff until Kathleen Kennedy just HAD to step in, to put baby yoda back, to fire Gina Carano dispite jon favreau clearly wasn't part of his original plan....
Lucasfilms as it stands now is entirely a rotten studio BECAUSE of Kathleen Kennedy.... And until she gets kicked out, it will remain to be a dead studio.
I 100% agree on the comparison between someone’s take on the messaging and core meaning of state wars mirroring a worldview/religion. At the end of the day, I think the franchise has turned into a battleground of ideas because it means so much to so many people. SW is just such a formative piece of art for such a large group of people. It’s now wonder that we really take to heart the themes and the core messages. Lucas designed it to be formative and filled with some very universal and deep human messaging after all.
Stories are powerful things in the way they can so satisfactorily deliver truths. In a world which for a while now is increasingly skeptical of traditional religious structures, it makes tons of sense that something as resonate as Star Wars would develop something akin to a meta narrative that people apply aspect of in their ways of thinking
Fans understand Star Wars just fine... the current creators are just insane
Exactly 💯
Grand Admiral Thrawn: What was first just a dream has become a frightening reality.
Me: Star wars is a religion?
Every star wars fan: This is the way.
The rewards of Tolerance are Treachery and Betrayal..... I will give them no Grace. No Quarter.
The big problem with all of this was the reactions of the Disney crew after TLJ. The shill bots had them thinking they were the majority, so they acted like insane witch-hunters attacking critics of the movie. It's only after years of realization that, without shill bots, they were a distinct minority. But their screams of 'baby' and 'basement dweller' (lol, in a Star Wars fandom) and far worse caused a large portion of people to despise the Disney crew entirely.
Thor: Who's to say that is not Star Wars?
KK: Let me step in here...
Yes, not one of his finer statements honestly. Thor if you are reading this, please think about this a bit more. There is truth. Star Wars is not post-modern, it was not conceived that way. There is good and evil, truth and lies.
7:35 I think the key focus between Star Wars and Religion, is the study of human nature or the Human spirit. That's why many can be so passionate about their worldview or interpretation of the material. Fans frustration with modern star wars is that the created material doesn't invoke any deep study because 1, its nonsensical or 2 makes a simple statement over and over again.
This. This is something I wish I had thought to mention when I made that comment.
what about the OT or PT was complex, in your opinion? (I agree with a lot of the new stuff being nonsensical, but I have difficulty seeing Lucas' stuff as being anything but simple affirmations of dominant cultural beliefs and attitudes of his day and age).
@@daneg Good question, I'll answer it while also stating why STARWARS as a franchise attracted me to it. I love storytelling, as a writer I've put many years into understanding how to tell a story and answer the question what makes a story timeless. The answer is in my first comment about "Human Nature or the Human Spirit". Weather the story is true or false, they both server the same purpose of affirming our "World views". The Dominant cultural worldviews come from the same four existential fears. Those fears are timeless because they're linked to human mortality. What first caught my eye about STARWARS as a kid, was the framing of the story "A LONG TIME AGO, IN A GALAXY FAR FAR AWAY." That opening line combined with the title of the franchise made me see it as a cautionary tale about how Good and evil intentions can lead to perpetual war. Because if war ever ends in the series, it'd be the end of starwars and maybe closer to the present day the narrator lives in.
3. It substitutes post-modern conceptions of truth for Lucas' modern conceptions of truth.
10:22 Or in the case of Dave Filoni, Star Wars is now their own personal sandbox that they can play around it without daddy George to watch over them or stop them from tearing down his walls and castles that he has already made. The characters are just toys that he can bring in and play around with them without thinking things through.
It's not just Star Wars. Look at how Star Trek was ruined, Game of Thrones, and Lord of the Rings. The list goes on... Dr. Who, Terminator, Alien, Ghostbusters.....
..... Indiana Jones, Wheel of Time, The Witcher, James Bond, all of Disney Marvel....
The argument that every generation will grow up with their own idea of what Star Wars is to them is such a hollow and moronic take. Look at Superman or Batman. They've been around for over 75 years and for the most part are the same characters they've always been. If it ain't broken there is no need to fix it. Disney has dismantled what Star Wars is into oblivion and there is no coming bk from that.
You make an excellent point some stories or fictitious l characters are timeless and on some broad spectrum we can all agree what makes them great and want just that
very very well said
The EU did understand star wars
I'd argue it's also the closest version that does try to adhere to Lucas' vision though it diverges off a bit.
Hey Thor, I think it's a littlebit different (Sorry, I am a german, don't understanding everything in your video).
In a simple - too simple perhaps - way of thinking, SW isn't really like a mythology in the way of cultures evolving, wandering through the ages, telling old stories a littlebit different, so they are changing over the millennia.
SW established the SW-universe in the first movie and the next two, as the background for the story.
The told stories used to happen in there. So every other story, which is told as a SW-Story has to happen in the SW-Universe, and it had to fit in. Otherwise it will have consequenzes for all the other stories.
For example, you can't tell a proper Star Trek TNG story in Westeros, or telling a LOTR-story located some years after the events of the books, writing "... as you know, Boromir took over the throne of rohan and Rosie Gamgeef threw the One Ring into the fires of mount doom ...".
Okay, you might can, but it still doesnt fit, it's just disappointing fans, it's just unnecessary - and you'll have to live with the critics.
While I'm not the Star Wars lore expert. I'll stick with Lucas's six films,Kotor games,Darth Plagueis novel & The Expanded Universe. I have come to the conclusion that STAR WARS isn't what it use to be.
Hey Thor, not too long ago you said in a video that since no new Star Wars will be coming out in awhile(aside from Outlaws, which you may have forgotten about) that you would be looking into some older Star Wars stories. What I wanted to ask you is if you would consider playing Knights of the Old Republic 2(KOTOR) and making some videos on it. In particular, making a video comparing it to The Acolyte.
KOTOR 1 and 2 are some of my favorite Star Wars games and some of my favorite games in general, with the second one being my personal favorite. This partially has to do with one of my favorite and one of the most complex characters in all of Star Wars(In my opinion anyway), Kreia. The reason I ask for a video comparing The Acolyte to KOTOR 2 is because I think KOTOR does something that The Acolyte tries and fails to do, to explore the perspective of The Sith and to examine The Jedi Order more closely. In KOTOR, and mostly through Kreia, you, as the player, are asked to consider the teachings of both The Jedi and The Sith, their flaws, and even the "True" nature of The Force itself, and all of this is done without feeling lectured to, or without being told that everything that you have known previously is wrong and that this is how its been the whole time. Different characters have different perspectives, and its up to you to decide what you choose to believe is the truth.
I would really like to hear your opinion in the near future. Thanks.
Disney chose to protect Kathleen Kennedy’s legacy rather than protect the legacy of George Lucas. They chose to destroy the heroes of the OT, believing they could replace them. They chose to disavow their own fan base, in hopes of somehow creating a new one. I’ve had enough. I can’t keep paying Disney to destroy something I love.
Ouch you are so right
The problem with Disney is that most of their staff openly hate the IP they are working on, especially Star Wars
Hey Thor,
So, I've listened to your videos ever since the Acolyte began, and I love your analysis and thoughts on the Star Wars universe. That being said, you have mentioned that you think the right thing for Disney to do at this point is a time jump and to essentially leave the Skywalker Saga alone.
I'm curious, if you had your say over Star Wars BEFORE Episode VII, would you have the same opinion? Or would you continue the Saga but in a different way?
I'm an example of someone who, while very interested in sci fi and fantasy stuff, has only been casually invested in Star Wars. I saw the first one in '77 when I was 11, but didn't collect the toys, etc. I have a lot of fondness for the OG stories and cast, but they're not a part of my identity. So to me, Star Wars can be about a lot of different things, and can tell stories that might even subvert what has come before. But those stories still have to be good, or I'm not going to be the least bit interested in seeing them. The Acolyte, for example, fails for me because it's bad storytelling. I don't dislike the Yoda reveal because it puts another spin on his characterization; I dislike it because it's lazy and self-congratulatory. I'm not against the ending with the light saber "bleeding" because it breaks the lore, but because it's presented in an uninteresting, and even insipid, way. Disney should see that not all criticism is based solely on fanaticism or some weird woke/not-woke feud that most people don't care about, but instead they need to understand that it's most often just a result of releasing low quality content. The Acolyte, The Rise of Skywalker... These are just really bad stories. Understanding Star Wars really has nothing to do with that. The bigger problem is the utter lack of quality control coming from the studio heads.
You should be the north star.. man I wish there was even just one guy like you on the payroll for Lucas.
They intentionally purged them all, now only yes men remain, and yes I am including Dave Felony.
About political thing, I think it's the distinction between work having political themes and political pandering. One is integral part of the story, the other feels slopily slapped on top of the extising thing. Star Wars sequels unfortunattely have barely any political themes (because "this is what made prequels bad", right?), but contain some degree of political pandering instead.
Yep, it's clear for me. My canon is Ep I-VI, Rogue One, and Andor.
To me, it feels like *my* Star Wars - the OT that I grew up with - is like Stella Artois, but on a warm summer day in a bar in Leuwen or Jupile in Belgium. The Prequels are like the bottles you brought home from the source, chilled just right. And the sequels are the shitty brewed under license stuff with a lower alcohol content for tax reasons that achieves the impossible - it makes you miss the time you were in fucking *Belgium*.
Kathy The Hutt… Standing on the Shoulders of Giants, and taking a Hot Steaming Dump on their Heads.
I do feel Jon Favreau understands *Star Wars* quite well too, if you watch just that first season, the overall tone I think he gets really well. The grittiness of that cantina where Din makes his cool entrance, resulting in him taking out that guy using the door. And then the other episodes, where he meets "The Client" and they end up having that shoot out, the other kind of more philosophical episodes, where Din meets Kuill the wise Uggnaut "I have spoken". The tone, writing and feel of those episodes was wonderful imo.
I have noticed alot of fans get picky and can't stand the whole business of the "fobs" and how exactly they work, and the episode where Din's ship gets stripped down and all his parts stolen by the Jawas, and he's goes off chasing them to get his stuff back. It's a interesting episode, because overall tone wise it's quite light-hearted, but then there are some dark moments, like when Din is chasing the Jawas, he even shoots some of them, disintegrating them. That was dark I thought.
The thing that's really unique about George Lucas *Star Wars* is that it has so many Layers. It's mythical and has mystical parts, but then there's some grittiness too, like when Luke's aunt & uncle get toasted "disintegrated". Or the cantina scene where Kenobi sloppily cuts off the Walruss Alien's arm, and abit of blood manages to spill out onto the floor. Han Solo shoots greedo dead and his body is just smoking from the blaster shot, richochet, as Han just cooly gets up and strolls out. Badass, but fairly violent and dark.
Jawas hugging Han's leg and snuggling upto him as C-3P0 gives them a storytime session, but then afterward, the battle of Endor, we see one of the mother ewoks running and they get caught by a ATST's heavy blaster fire, and when the sibling turns over his mom, she's dead and Lucas keeps that shot on them for a moment, as the Ewok cries. Dark, sad moment; even though ironically the Jawas are mostly shown as loveable, and too many a fan CHESSY AF LOL!
It's just this wonderful mix of so many tones and layers that just hit you, and I can see it's quite hard capturing that same tone; its even caused so many fans to be split; where many just want *Star Wars* to stay in that purely "Serious" more mature tone; where as others like all the little, fluffy, light-hearted stuff. To me personally, I just like it Exactly what what it is, juggling Both light-hearted moments, with some sad even dark, gritty moments, along with some magical and mythical feels, like regards Yoda in Empire.
I also think Favreau while admittedly NOT perfect! Did do about the best job of getting as close as possible to that tone and very similar story-telling sensibility of George Lucas, while Never actually just blatantly ripping off his Saga movies, but actually was bringing a whole other, refreshing story overall to *Star Wars*. Drawing inspiration off of similar things George himself was inspired from, regards Japanese Cinema and the "Lone Wolf & Cub" story.
I think it's testament when you see George visiting the Mandalorian set for both Seasons 1 & 2, seeing Lucas sat down with Filoni and Favreau (while Kennedy is conveniently out the way sat at the back on her fone lol). Seeing George talking to Favreau, really showing a interest in what exactly he was doing with his Mandalorian series; I think that spoke volumes. And seeing George Lucas actually holding the "baby Grogu" puppet, he's seeing someone actually trying to do something NEW and abit Different with his work.
The Mandalorian, say what you will about it now, but that really was the benchmark, that was trying to branch out I think and go in another direction, WHILE still staying true and faithful to George Lucas's vision of the Galaxy Far, Far Away. It's a real shame that it all got tampered with and messed up, but I don't blame Jon Favreau one bit, I think his hands got tied by Kennedy.
The bare minimum of what star wars is
Need to be at least the 6 movies and what George said about the specific events in those movies
Anakin was the chosen one who brought balance to the force at the end of return of the Jedi
Even disney stated the movies were canon
April 2014 the date when the Golden Age of Star Wars ended
Another reason why I want to see your rewrite of the Sequel Trilogy, at least you would treat the characters honorably, compared to the madness that Disney is doing.
i just deleted my own wall of text. I'm all about respecting the canon. by respect, I mean consistency in the way the world works from one director to another. the physics. the fight styles. the characters (cough Luke). but all of that said, honestly, just make a good movie. something thoughtful. it doesn't have to be shakespeare, but dear god, it has to make more sense than TLJ, RoS, Kenobi within the shared universe and with the shared characters vis-a-vis the stories that precede them. or...and I realize this is a radical idea...create your own characters and have them do your OWN thing in the SW universe. maybe don't rewrite existing characters? it's a big universe. you don't need to write darth plaegis into your otherwise isolated movie. the Acolyte doesn't have to have deep and meaningful implications for the rest of the SWU. I kinda think this is where the MCU has gone off the rails too. we're expecting every movie to lead into every other movie and D+ show. Iron Man was a good movie. Captain America was a good movie. Incredible Hulk not so much, but I wasn't watching them just to know what would happen with the infinity stones. now every movie is about the multiverse or coping with the snap. like...gawd. just make a Captain America movie or a Blade movie. Stop trying to make everything point back to Loki Season Whatever.
I’ve long forgotten what Star Wars means to me I only really remember how it felt. So a lot of what Disney puts out feels alien to me so am not really sure what Star Wars should be since a lot of peeps don’t seem to have a consistent interpretation. Disney seems to be trying to replicate Star Wars instead of trying to drive inspirations from what made Star Wars unique
The main thing I'm understanding from the video and the comment you are responding too is that Star Wars has become soo large and created soo many sub-fandoms (large ones like the EU fandom to even the smallest ones like the prequel memes subreddit who rose to make fun of the questionable decisions surrounding the prequels) that noone really understands the series enough to take it in a unified direction to appease everyone, which in of itself is an impossible task. It's why Disney retconned all of the EU. From the cracks of this large foundation of star wars has created people who want to profiteer off of Star Wars, economically, socially, or politically, with the easiest way to do so being to hardline yourself alongside a subset of the fandom and weaponize that fandom against others. We can see this in this very own comment section, with people being so furious with Disney that they call anyone who enjoys Disney products "Blasphemers"
Disney despite alot of their issues, can do great stories, Mando season 1, Mando Season 2, Andor, and Rogue One are Disney era star wars shows and storys which are at the very least passable in quality. yet all of these have very little of Star Wars in it for the viewers who came for the Jedi and Sith. Which may very well be Star Wars for them. We also got TCW and Season 7 of it, as well as bad batch (I never watched past the first season but I liked it alot when I did watch it).
The fandom itself has become incredibly volatile, to the point I've basically left the fandom and Star Wars entirely, and to be honest, checking on it has only reinforced my position. As it is right now, everyone is just claiming to "know" Star Wars, when it reality its just them describing the subset of things they like about Star Wars.
Hey Thor, putting aside the philosophical angle for now, but from a surface level standpoint (ie tone, visuals, music, etc), do you really believe Star Wars should stay fully consistent and never branch out in any way, shape or form. For as much as people brand it as Star Wars due to the fact that they grew up with it and it was made by the same person, most people tend to forget just how different the Prequels are compared to the Original Trilogy:
The Originals had a consistent Fairytale tone, it certainly integrated other aspects like Military Sci Fi, Mysterious Fantasy, Grim Mythology and a little bit of Dystopian but for the most part the films maintained a light but heartfelt atmosphere. The Prequels integrated a more Shakespearean tone when it came to Anakin and Padme’s story, Political Intrigue with the fall of the Republic and Overarching Mystery when it came to the return of the Sith.
The Originals had creative but extremely specific worlds and terrains, Tatooine was a desert with a little bit of rocks and canyons, Yavin was a forest moon, Hoth was an ice and snow planet, Bespin was a gas giant, Endor was another forest moon. The Prequels integrated more vivid and less specific worlds, Geonosis was a rocky and dusty planet with a lot of caves, deserts, etc, Naboo was a lush, green world with forests, lakes, fields and waterfalls, Mustafar was pretty specific but planets like Felucia and Kashyyyk are more than just forests like Yavin or Endor were.
In terms of music, the Fairytale tone was defined here, it was up beat and adventurous, occasionally becoming intense and suspenseful, it certainly had scores that felt mystical and ominous but for the most part it maintained a light atmosphere. The Prequels definitely leaned more into the mythological side of things as far the music is concerned, it’s grand and bombastic and utilized a lot of choirs (something the Original’s Soundtrack barely used).
What I’m saying is I don’t really understand a common but immeasurable criticism (particularly from older, Original Trilogy Purist Fans) that when it comes to the surface level, a lot of these newer shows don’t feel like Star Wars when it comes to the surface level elements. I have a lot of issues with the Acolyte but modern music playing in the credits isn’t even close to the biggest one, should Star Wars really just stick to what the Originals or Prequels established? Is it a manner of medium and should the films only be the ones to define or redefine what Star Wars is? Is it a matter of creator and should George be the only one who define or redefine what Star Wars is? And if it’s the latter, I don’t think George himself would approve of that philosophy since one of, if not, his biggest problem with The Force Awakens was its lack of creativity and unwillingness to push boundaries to do something new, George has said many times that he always tries to do something new with every Star Wars Film he makes, do you believe only he has the right to do that?
Wow the only thing Leslie Headland and George Lucas have in common is that they look oddly similar
Well...
To be fair, Lucas's ideas were constantly evolving. From film to film, from show to show, series to series, etc.
He understands it best, but that's because it's so tied to his evolving thoughts and ideas.
So, in a way, I don't thing there is an absolute set of unalterable realities in this world building.
Tolkien probably understood the LOTR world better because he spent so much time working on and refining it.
It seems Lucas has tended to make up a fair bit of it as he's gone along.
This is not to say Disney or their creators get it better. No way. It feels so different. It seems like it's a tool for what they want to say.
The acolyte got me to watch a bunch of star wars content. Your videos, generation tech, and several others. I saw several videos that boiled down to "I'm a star wars fan and I understand star wars let me explain it to you" and then they go to explain it differently then anyone else. So I think we can say that everyone understands star wars differently
Hey Thor, I've been wondering about droid sentience lately and why Star Wars rarely takes it seriously. I even think that people applauding clone sentience and individuality is a bit of a double standard when those same people dismiss droids as merely extensions of their creators. Even though Rex famously denies this, the fact is that clones are programmed to obey orders without question and are manufactured. Most clones only have limited independent thinking and a clone being able to live outside a military is incredibly rare. The only reason they develop individuality is because of experience. But the funny thing is, droids develop individuality for the same reason. The only difference is that droids regularly have their memories wiped specifically to prevent them from developing individuality and potentially rebelling. There's a moment in Heir to the Empire where Luke is asked why he has never wiped C-3PO's memories in all the years he's known him, and Luke reveals that he's uncomfortable with the idea of stripping his friend of individuality. And I don't know if you have played KOTOR 2 yet, but there's a mission where HK-47 argues with HK-50, who dismisses him as obsolete. But HK-47 argues that he is superior because he has developed individuality and has given himself a higher purpose and meaning because he has never had his mind wiped. These examples show that droid sentience should not be played for laughs so much in the franchise. In fact, I think the galaxy is overdue for a galaxy-wide droid revolution just to show people that sentient droids deserve equal treatment.
This is actually addressed in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Measure of a Man" where Lt. Data's rights are debated because he's an android and I wish Star Wars had something similar.
What do you think?
I've seen yah ask this question on several of his videos. It's interesting but as I recall mainly just going on what we see in the movies and a few of the books. For the most part, droids do have their own personality, even after getting thier memory wiped. They still have that personality, just no memory of their previous life.
Though when it comes to AI sentience it really is a huge can of worms you need to tread lightly on. Kinda like introducing time travel in a franchise.
This is why one must ALWAYS create a Series Bible, if only to keep one's world consistent. There are stories in the EU that Lucas approved which contradict the OT and/or the PT, for example. Even within the OT, Lucas made some contradictions (as a minor example, Leia kissing Luke in Empire, only to make her his sister in RotJ).
Sadly, it took a destructive series like "The Acolyte" to open the eyes of most Star Wars factions. My eyes were fully opened after Kenobi; some were opened after Boba Fett; others were opened immediately after Lucas sold Lucasfilm to Disney.
To contrast, Tolkien was very protective of his work, and rightfully so. His collection of letters are effectively his Series Bible, outlining what isn't mentioned or obvious in his novels. Because of that, there are historians and fans who all have a clear understanding of what Tolkien's world should be, not including "Rings of Power" obviously.
We have thousands of Lucas interviews, someone should collect them and do an exegesis to iron out contradictions. The problem is no one cares about them like they do with Tolkien letters.
@@Hello-bi1pm precisely because Tolkien treated it like gospel. He literally thought about his world for decades.
Lucas, on the other hand, is more loose with his own lore. When it comes to the foundations, though, he’s almost as strong as Tolkien. He’s very clear on the Force and the Jedi vs. Sith.
Joseph Campbell - The hero’s journey
George Lucas states that goal of Star Wars is bringing some more spirituality into new generations.
Philosophy taught by the movies are references to various real religions. The messeges are very close to religious ones.
Some of the intended moral judgments seem to operate on the assumption that fictional religion of the Jedi is correct and moral in-universe.
The word "canon" which has religious connotations was and is officialy being used in the exact same way as it is used in a religious sense.
No wonder Star Wars fans are having religious schisms over fiction. Some degree of religiousity was pretty much baked into Star Wars from the start.
Well said.
I would say that, as its creator, Lucas understands Star Wars. Other people may understand Star Wars to varying degrees, some quite well and some very poorly.
13:01
Hey Thor! You've made a very fine point there, but i'm afraid you're kinda wrong and letting the Relativism run the show a bit too much...
An Intellectual Property _can_ have an obvious identity. And unless 100 years or so have passed and society is much changed, it is the duty of the author and the devoted favs who care about the IP to maintain that identity. Sure, what the IP might look like may change from time to time, (e.g. Looney Tunes, Superman, Batman, Scooby-Doo, Sherlock Holmes, etc.) but the core idea and themes should always remain the same. Otherwise, it might as well become another IP.
Yeah, and I'd say Filoni and Favreau understand it fairly well, even if they do make mistakes from time to time. At the very least, they grasp what it is at its core, and that's what's most important I'd say.
The money/merch/viewing numbers will eventually decide new content. If the new stuff doesn't sell, doesn't create new fans, they will either course correct or stop. This can't go on indefinitely, these things cost too much money.
Hey Thor.
Have you seen the new kids cartoon on disney+, young jedi Knights?
I watched it together with my kids (on swedish) but I honestly think it was some really good star wars content.
Yes, it was made with young kids in mind and it gets a bit cheesy and probably dont always line up with other content, but the stories, the messages are great and gives a good view of what the jedi really are and the ideal to aim for.
I would love to see something similiar in a live action show.
Show us the wholesome view of the jedi.
I would advice anyone to see this show with their kids, even watch a few episodes without kids if you dont have any to get a feel for what a good star wars show could look like.
I geeatly appreciate that Thor Skywalker reads the comments, including the long responses.
Trying to keep up with the posts must be akin to a part-time job. 😁
Almost nobody has since the PT imo.
Dont kid yourself, the PT was garbage too
@@dancingvalkyrieNah, PT was amazing you're just a crybaby Gen X Boomer.
@@dancingvalkyrieNot compared to what they're crapping out today. At least the prequels had diverse worlds, memorable alien designs, good music score, good action, good visuals, good cinematography and a good story. All it needed was a better script.
@@dancingvalkyrie except the PT understood Star Wars, because it was literally written by the creator of Star Wars
@@vetarlittorf1807 Okay but i dont care about comparisons. The PT is still garbage regardless of what Disney makes. A shitty movie doesnt become good just because another movie is shittier lol
I've also been thinking something about this. It's one thing for Headland to say, "it's OK if people don't like the Acolyte". This is not the same as The Acolyte changing other aspects of Star Wars that other people do like.
Hey Thor,
since you talk a lot about what you think Lucas means by balance in the Force and how he said everyone in that Galaxy has a destiny: do you think, keeping in mind that balance doesn’t mean equal parts light and dark, that some people are destined to become Sith? Or is it that they choose to be selfish? How do we know Anakin isn’t destined to become Vader? And to add to that, how do we know if it’s Anakin’s destiny to become Vader because that’s the only way to stop the Emperor by the point he kills Windu? In other words, is SW destiny perhaps conditional, as in to stop the Emperor after a certain point it has to be from within, if you will?
Also maybe Palpatine was destined to become Sidious to realign the dogmatic Jedi order and re-attune the Jedi to the Will of the Force.
Would love to hear your own take on this, to me it’s quite the conundrum due to it having so many layers.
When you talk about “what you want from SW is based on when you grew up” - how does this hold up that the “prequel fans” also agree that the OT is great.
For me, the worst real world invasion violation in star wars, was the indian scammer in Kenobi, that really threw me out.
Me and my gf just watched the prequel trilogy, rogue one, and the og trilogy. And by the time we got to the battle on Hoth in empire strikes back, I realized something obvious to almost every fan of George Lucas' original work. The war for Star Wars is over. And we lost. Now, even the good stuff we get feel like phyrric victories or nostalgia for better days.
That’s a dumb conclusion on your end.
@@achaudhari101 tell that to Han, Luke, and Leia....Oh wait, you can't.
And tell that to this country going down the toilet- oh wait.
Leia dies, han solo dies, everyone dies. And on it goes. By the end a lonely girl stand a sole winner in a child's crusade
Hey Thor, this is very well said brother! Keep it up! Hope you and Star Wars Theory meet up sometime and talk some Star Wars 😊👍🏻
Another travesty committed by Disney. They wiped out the EU…… I loved a ton of it, but they said everything going forward would be canon. That was a concept I could get behind for sure! I bought every book and comic for a while because now I would have the entire canon……,. And then they broke it. Quite a few times.
Jediism being a thing in the world speaks volumes about Star Wars' cultural impact.
Sure. Or just that some people need more hobbies...
If I mix dirt into ice cream, I cannot truthfully call it ice cream.
Yeah, some of the fans know everything there is to know about Star Wars... I have alot of knowledge of it myself, but not as much after Disney took over. I kind of stopped keeping track, stopped thinking about the ins and outs of Star Wars. The new "stories" did nothing to capture my interest. I'm a legends guy... Or maybe I'm just a legend... *toots horn*
They could move the timeline all the want it wouldn't improve it until they dropped the current year messaging and just plain terrible writing. That won't happen consistently unless disney leadership changes.
If Disney hires a non-fictional writer to direct a movie or series that they have always wanted to write except for having to use a Star Wars theme I would have no interest in it, anymore than if they locked up a cat in a hen house to have a litter of kittens, and tried to sell them as chickens. After a while these kinds of gross misrepresentations become what a company is known for. If someone writes and directs a movie based on a best selling novel, would anyone put up with having all of the characters changed and the story has nothing to do with the best selling novel it is named after.
I still understand Star Wars very well. By that I mean real Star Wars, not whatever Disney is making which is very much NOT Star Wars IMO. Disney could have had a lifetime subscriber to Disney+, an excited owner of many of their games and books who would suggest them to other people and somebody who would pay to see the movies multiple times. All they had to do to get all that was actually create real Star Wars. They decided they did not want to do that, thus they decided they did not want my money.
There is no such thing as “Real Star Wars”. That sounds like a fan politician word that has no meaning whatsoever. If your version/definition of “Real Star Wars” was the EU, well you weren’t going to get it. If it was his ST outlines that I argue weren’t any better, you also wouldn’t be getting it. It’s such a stupid thing to suggest when even you don’t know what that means.
I watched the first 3 STAR WARS movies and that was that.
I enjoyed them all and it was fun - but now . . .
sorry. Things got lost in the shuffle after that and it became confusing.
Heck, I don't even see a kid wearing a STAR WARS t-shirt anymore.
Thanks Thor for your video essay.
It’s a dead brand
It isn’t.
I don’t want Disney to make Star Wars their own. I really want them to make it someone else’s, someone who understands George Lucas Star Wars, loves it with a passion, and does everything possible to write the very best material. Preferably less frequently, but with greater impact. Oh, that and make the sequels, the Kenobi series and the acolyte non-canon.
I saw empire in 82 I still dont understand where tauntaun's come from if they freeze at night...obviously not hoth
That's a good question. Maybe the tauntauns would normally seek shelter at night under ground, like the wampas? Or maybe they are cold weather animals the rebels brought with them to use on Hoth but it turned out that Hoth was colder than even the tauntauns were capable of enduring? I don't know.
"There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force."
-The Jedi Code
Star Wars is full of these little consistents. Things meant to help solidify and understand the GFFA. This in particular is the code that the Jedi strive to live by and depending on how closely they do, will determine the rank of a Jedi.
Things like this are what set the Jedi apart from other force users. The Sith have their own code they live by.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me."
-The Sith Code
This too is what sets the Sith apart from other force users. It is through these that we can understand what they actually ARE. Just like the many alien species have things that set them apart from baseline humans and the various cultures that have been shaped by those characteristics and beliefs.
Star Wars is, simply a collection of tales told in a universe not unlike but still different to our own. It's in the name. Stories of adventure and war between the stars. A tale of good and evil which is a product of its time.
To say that no one can understand it means that one cannot understand Story in the broad sense. Blatantly untrue. While the ability to TELL a story and tell it WELL is a specialized artform, the ability to UNDERSTAND a story is universal.
Under the total incompetence of the Acolyte is a story that would not be out of place in Star Wars. I can see something salvageable under the retardation. The only thing that makes it terrible is just how badly the story was told. A little reframing of the Jedi to better fit them to the Jedi Code that was established before Disney and while it may result in a totally different outcome in a few ways, the story told can still work in a sense.
Some fans may feel, that with such big changes by Disney/LucasFilm in something they care about like Star Wars, that their investment in it has been a waste.
The problem with too much departure from Lucas is that continuity will then alter the first three movies backstory and re-contexualize them. The trilogy that I watched is a diiferent set of movies than the one that people will watch after they learn of a Yoda coverup. Yoda's great speeches on Degobah will turn into hogwash, in a sense. That's akin to going ahead and remaking A New Hope -- which they don't have permission to do -- which means they found a loophole.
The only Star Wars I care about is everything made before Disney
Hey Thor, what do you think about Dagan Gera from Jedi survivor, aside from Tanalorr is mine, I think that dagan is a wonderful look how greed and entitlement can lead someone a dark path.
I would be very interested in a bit of a character study of Dagan. Especially the similarities between him and Anakin, and where they diverge.
@FormerlyDuck dagan is my friend fallen jedi. We see that he was a good person. His discovery of tanalorr changed him. The jedi leaving tanalorr after the nihil attack alongside his perceived betrayal of Santari Khri, but Khri couldn't kill dagan. After Cal woke him up he embraced the darkside completely
Hey Thor. I wholeheartedly disagree. Moving Star Wars 1000 years into the future and giving us all new characters and a different time period is no longer Star Wars. It is a space opera. Disney moving away from the Skywalker name and saga is also fundamentally wrong. Star Wars, in order to move forward needs to set right the main narrative and characters that make the space opera what it is. The narrative that Kathleen Kennedy set in the last ten plus year has been the main cause as to why the fandom is as broken as it is. Though they may or may not want to hear it over at Lucasfilm, Luke Skywalker is the narrative. His character arc needs to be repaired. And an honest and fair shot of the Expanded Universe needs to be taken cinematically and on Disney+. The only reason I did not include George's sequel treatments, is because in all honesty, only George Lucas can make his sequel trilogy. I am curious to know what an alternate take of yours would be besides thousands of years in the future? And turning Star Wars into something that isn't Star Wars, but a Space Opera. Thanks.
We didn't care when the original 'Tales of the Jedi' comics came out. 5,000 and 4,000 years in the past? No ancestors of current characters? Still a space opera and still Star Wars.
Given, lightsabers with a cable to a power pack at the belt was... questionable.
On the other side we saw a Jedi Master train his students in lightsaber combat using his wooden walking stick against their lightsabers.
@@Dreamfox-df6bg if you actually paid attention. Everything is like poetry, it rhymes. Skywalker/Sunrider. Qel-Droma/Kenobi. Wayward Jedi so interested in the Dark Side he eventually falls in Exar Kun. Everything except the sequels were looped in around each other. Everything came back to Luke Skywalker. Why would you think cinematically George Lucas said Disney doesn’t understand Star Wars? The name of the first novel even had a subtitle. From the adventures of Luke Skywalker.
TBH I feel like the attachment fans have to Star Wars isn’t really that different from other fandoms. Every fandom has their own war over canonicity, etc.
Also I’m not sure that we should compare Star Wars to a religion. Does Star Wars give people a sense of self-worth, the raison d’etre of someone’s existence? In that case, it would be a proxy to an idol or religion, much like you could argue a billionaire worships wealth as their chance of happiness. But I don’t think that’s the case with the vast majority of Star Wars fans who argue about canon. Rather the gist I get is that most people enjoy the stories and the themes. A good, original story is what’s most important, and part of making a good story in any multimedia franchise happens to be preserving canon. Canon is a means to an end, not an end in itself.
Yeah... I don't think this timeline is salvageable. For me - SW is intertwined very closely to Luke. Through him I reflected the prequels and build my view into the EU further.
But when disney killed him the way they did I just can't watch any new Star Wars because everything that comes before will lead to His death and everything that came just after it is born in the dead world.
So it's like "With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created." But in our case Thor's idea to move timeline far far ahead I think is the only one valuable option for SW to survive at all.
I honestly think it's goofy to say the creator of something doesn't understand what they created especially when it's directed at George Lucas. And honestly it seems like he is the only creator where this dumb criticism is used against.
Whenever someone says that about Lucas what they are really saying is that George Lucas doesn't understand what Star Wars means to them.
It's a grey area honestly, and that includes with George. Within the OT, he wasn't that hands on with all of it after the original. There are other directors and screenwriters who are also cooks in the kitchen which ended up being a huge benefit in the end.
Beyond that, I think the best example that could be used would be the X-Men. Created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby...but that world was and to a large degree still is defined by what Chris Claremont did with a concept created by others. Not just the X-Men concept either, but for years he was the man that defined Wolverine who was a character he did not create. So in an instance like that I'd say Claremont understood the X-Men more than Lee and Kirby. And Frank Miller understood Daredevil more than Stan Lee and Bill Everett, Peter David understood the Hulk more than Lee and Kirby...and I'd argue Bill Mantlo did too.
It's not always as easy as "the creator knows all", especially when the creator lets other people play with their toys.
I'm not saying Lucas doesn't have a great understanding and love for what he created, far from it. But if I'm going to be fair I'm also going to say there are things about it and what people feel in love with and why that I don't think he understands. Which isn't a bad thing by any means. One of the things I find so admirable when it comes to the OT is the sense of collaboration in them and I think it's unfortunate for him and the end product that, for various reasons, there was less collaboration when it came to the Prequels.
@@Doop3r That's a huge misconception that Lucas wasn't handson with The Originals. Ep. When they did writing of the script and reshoots, he oversaw it.
The only time when he wasn't overseeing one of the movies was Empire. He let the director and writer handle the movie while he was doing another project and dealing with his marriage. The movie went way over budget, and when they did a screening, Lucas was angry. So he he spent months editing and reshoots to deliver the version that came out in theaters. So Lucas saved Empire.
Too many act like Star Wars was successful despite Lucas instead of because of Lucas or that Lucas was a glory hog that took credit for everything.
I would say Rowling comes 2nd in "creator doesn't understand own universe" critique and that's because Rowling actually does have complete control and changes whatever on a whim.
Remember, that criticism of Lucas is as old as Stat Wars itself: Alec Guinness already said back during the filming of the first movie that Lucas “doesn’t understand the characters he’s writing for” and Hamill and Ford in their first screen tests had dialogue they both found horrible and were also vocal about saying that no real person would talk like what Lucas had written.
@@Deuteromis George isn't a writer and he admits this. Why do you think the prequels were so panned? Because he tried, and failed, to find other people to write for him. Tried to, and didn't succeed.
Evolution is not the real problem. TLJ - like Nutsus last Video Essay beautifully said - and Kennedy is the real problem.
No modern American politics in Star Wars. No social agenda message.
But you can have plenty of Star Wars politics. About Star Wars stuff. Not about real stuff.
Hey Thor, I have a question that maybe goes more with your what would the jedi do questions than this vid in particular, but i was rlly curious about ur take on this. In the clone wars, the republic manufacturing human beings to fight in their war is 100% wrong, but the Jedi don't really seem to take a stand against what's happening with the clones. Likewise, the Jedi do seem to send their padawans into battle which could definitely be seen as them using child soldiers. I know that obviously the jedi as people, aren't always gonna live up to the jedi way itself, especially during the prequel era, but it always bugged me that characters like Yoda, while admitting that the clones are all individuals in the force, doesn't denounce the horrible way they're treated, and lets children fight in a war. btw lol, I haven't watched the clone wars or prequels in a little bit so I may be forgetting some lines or details, but I do remember this bothering me the whole time. ;)
I'm pretty much where everyone else is. Apathetic. Only thing I'm doing with SW now is try to write my own story. This project has led me down the rabbit hole and has me answering these fundamental questions.
I believe a good Star Wars story can still be done, I do believe both sides of the aisle can equally enjoy a story that speaks universally. These discussions on what makes Star Wars Star wars are not only stimulating to read, but it's proving how enormous the IP has gotten. That now we have this pretty patchwork quilt of different takes. A bit like how Star Wars Visions gave the IP to different studios and let them run with it.
Where I'm fundamentally against The Acolyte; comes from this new-age concept of "Positive-Corruption". Suggesting Corruption can be a good thing. When we have seen time and time again what corruption at nature does. These are the same people who suggest "Positively discriminating" applicants as an employer is a good thing (My state tried to pass this as law but didn't pass). It's this moral ambiguity in the disguise of equity is why the "Gray Jedi" thing keeps popping up. It's why LF keeps obsessing over greys more than the blacks and whites.
I'm not saying moral ambiguity and grey should be put on the stake and be lit on fire. It worked amazingly in Andor. It just doesn't work when you have two clear sides of the Force where one side can turn people into monsters of every imaginable flavor of evil from the Machiavellian, the genocidal, to the eldritch horrors.
Hey Thor, do you think Anakin’s embrace of the dark side in episode 3 was just a little too far too fast? In your opinion, Is a fall to the dark side that extreme that quickly? I just have a hard time imagining Anakin being able to kill younglings and fight Obi-Wan to the death in the matter of hours.
The massacre of the separatists? Completely understood. The desire to overthrow the emperor on his first day? Not so much. I’d love to hear your thoughts since your opinions usually align with my own and I go back and forth on this one a lot.
George at the opening looked like an ancient elf
I think Star Wars needs to do two things. First, create stories based on universal themes using both real-world history (nothing from this century) and mythology for inspiration. The second thing they need to do is either scale up the tech or scale down the Jedi and Sith powers. In Lucas's original six movies, the tech from the galaxy far, far away was enough to deal with a Jedi or a Sith. As Disney continues to add more and more powers or make rare abilities more common the tech needs to reflect these changes. If there was a massive war with Sith shooting lightning every which way then someone would create a way to either ground that energy or shield people from it. Likewise, if the Jedi could pull information so easily from people's minds like we saw in the Acolyte then someone for one reason or another would create a way to block that invasion of privacy.
Disney has not been writing good stories. That is what it boils down to. They seem to be tearing down what came before rather than improving with new. I never watched the Acolyte, but from what I have seen in reviews is how badly the story is written.
I don’t exactly know what Star Wars is, but I know what I feel. The Force Awakens, Rogue One, The Clone Wars (3d animated show), the Ahsoka show, the Mandalorian, and to an extent even the Kenobi show - these to me have _felt_ closer to the spirit of Star Wars than any other non-GL project to date.
Now, I’m not calling those shows or films flawless by any means. In fact, they’re far from it. But in terms of summoning back that childlike wonder from the original and prequel trilogies, these come the closest for me.
So I think there’s something there, that perhaps is that secret sauce Disney seems to be missing.
#DisneyStarwars Starwars. That doesn't mean it has to be bad (Mando1-2, Andor/Rogue One), but Disney went in a different direction and so...split from what was.
This is why #Gina Carano's "discovery phase" of the lawsuit she brought is SO important. It has the potential to show that what Disney has been doing is exactly as their logo shows them as:
The Empire.