Mass Apache Assault Goes Wrong - Operation Iraqi Freedom - Animated
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2023
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AH-64 Apache attack helicopters of the 101st Airborne Division take off to attack the Medina Republican Guard Division to clear the road to Baghdad. The mission is doomed for disaster, and intense AAA and small arms ground fire tears into the attack helicopter formation en route.
For context on the invasion, please watch Iraq War 2003 Explained - Why Bush and Blair Attacked Iraq on The Intel Report at • Iraq War 2003 Explaine...
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goat guns are the goat
the only GOAT I see here is @TheOperationsRoom
I wish they were legal in Australia, so cool. (Yes, I checked they count as replica's which are illegal in Tasmania)
Task and purpose got in trouble for not saying goat guns don’t actually shoot😂 so be careful with yt stupid ass rules
Where Do You Get The Exact Information For Your Videos From ?!.
I have a professor who was an Apache pilot in the 6th air cavalry. This mission was the object lesson for "doing what you want even when conditions say otherwise," because this mission began while 9 of the 10 pre-planned go/no go conditions were in NO-GO stage. The mission planners ignored those in favor of the one condition that was in GO mode, even though protocol dictated that one NO-GO condition was cause for cancellation. With the right hubris, even the army's finest can execute stupid missions.
Objective fixation + completion bias.
@@tehboneheadsunken cost fallacy
So was the colonel promoted? Probably got his stars because he was a “stud”. Should have been run out of the army.
It was still happening deep into the war. We had one commander so eager to complete his mission that during a forcasted several day long sandstorm, he kept us geared up and ready and would take off every 15 minutes. We had less than our minimum 1 mile of visibility, but with each take off, he hoped it would be at that moment better, so that he could justify us taking off for the mission. The cost in fuel and unnecessary wear and tear on the aircraft was staggering just for him to try to maybe get one more bullet on his evaluation report.
@ChadChambers-oj7oc lol i also worked in the s3 shop and know exactly how grating the idea of an operations major talking about anything can be
The difference between this operation and Desert storm is night and day. Dessert storm had an insane amount of complexity within such a short span of time, and yet the whole thing ran smooth as silk. OIF had so many failures of communication and so many small yet critical errors occurring consistently.
if Iraq had the desert storm army in OIF, they might have even thwarted the allies.
Comparing OIF to Desert Storm is like comparing apples and oranges. The only similarity is the fact that they invaded Iraq. Desert storm involved a large standing army vs coalition forces while OIF was primarily fought against paramilitary forces.
You are causally glossing over the months of preparation and the six week air campaign that helped shape the battlefield conditions before the ground assault. All of which was built off of a recent war game scenario by CENTCOM.
I’m not putting down the complexity and sacrifices by the men and women of OIF, but it’s not fair to say that OIF was essentially Desert Storm 2.0. It was a completely different enemy and thus they should’ve treated the larger scenario as such.
Edit: changed OEF to OIF
Mmm dessert storm
@@olofrensfeldt3994 i think dq calls it a blizzard
Why iraq war looks like a typical gameplay an Gta online
I really like seeing failures in addition to successes. War is a tough business and learning from mistakes is invaluable.
The majority of coalition involvement in the Middle East was a mistake, “hearts and minds” my ass…it’s more like, “hearts and minds brought hatred and mines.”
Agreed. But still would prefer more freedom delivery videos!
True but this was a failure before it even started
Many people say you learn from your mistakes, but Confucius says "He who does not make mistakes has already learnt".
@@bigbillyb0b USA hasn't delivered freedom in more than 80 years.
Kev Main's shoot-down was primarily due to the way the Patriot battery had been deployed and effectively isolated. There are many methods of combat ID - recovery lanes, altitude, speed, flightpath, RT, lame-duck procedures, JTIDS tracks, recognised air picture, Mode 1 and Mode 4 IFF systems. Both the air and ground environment recognises that equipment can fail, aircraft can be off-track, datalink tracks can go down and that some potential threat systems may or may not be present in a particular conflict. Kev and Dave's recovery had every combat ID system and procedure working for them, save for Mode 4 IFF - but their Mode 1 IFF was still working. In no way should this equipment limitation equal a threat ID, as it was identified as friendly by multiple systems long before the Patriot event took place.
Regrettably, perhaps recklessly, the Patriot battery had no knowledge of the recovery profiles, safe lanes or recovery points. They also had no access to the Air Tasking Orders, so had no idea what was expected to be there or the exact location of the coalition airbase. Unbelievably they had no radio comms to anything relevant to the air picture, no datalinks, no current orders and no credible command structure. For reasons that remain opaque, they had the Patriot system set to alarm on any possible (global) threat system, rather than set for systems Iraq actually had.
When configured this way pretty much anything could be falsely classified as a threat. Moreover, they had not been given the Mode 1 IFF codes to load or have an ability to manually check for them but still operated in a manner that assumed Mode 1 capability. In effect the Patriot battery had become an ungoverned and uncontrolled combat system that was solely reliant on its own Mode 4 IFF interrogator working seamlessly with all coalition Mode 4 aircraft transponders.
There has to come a point where a Patriot or other similar air defence system is so incapable of achieving its mission that it has to be taken down. Neither the battery command chain or the individual Patriot units had any idea of the threat they posed to their own aircraft. They had become murderously lethal to any aircraft without Mode 4 alone, even if every other positive method of friendly ID was in place. During the subsequent enquiry I was shocked to learn how close Patriot batteries had come to firing when they tried to engage friendly aircraft in the lead-up to this event; yet nobody seemed to realise that the batteries were fighting their own imaginary war against non-existent slow-speed formations of anti-radiation missiles.
Very well reasoned comment. I was infantry and we depended on an ECM bubble of overlapping frequencies and units... totally unreliable units, I might add. The west puts technology at the forefront of warfare and it can be a liability.
This is why....as a comms guy, I stress to eveyone...ALL sections need a STU phone or at least a working BlueforTracker and NEED thk have a damn competent operator.
There had been a number of incidences of Patriot radars locking onto coalition aircraft. The following day this shooting down of the Tornado a Patriot radar also locked onto an F-16. The pilot did try to get the lock taken off but in the end just destroyed the Patriot's radar. It was classified as an accident, though I am sure the US Air Force had some strong words with whoever was in charge of these missiles.
The Patriot missile system has been a multi-trillion dollar scam by Raytheon since the 1960's and even its best interception percentage has been 30% even against Houthi-fired subsonic missiles to say nothing of much faster cruise or hypersonic missiles employed by Russia and China. There is simply no way to effectively shoot a bullet with a bullet despite all the softball rigged tests of the system claiming success.
There’s a documentary on this called “Apache Warrior (2017)” available on Prime Video last I checked.
It’s fascinating in that it uses 100% authentic live footage from the *entire* operation itself: both the Apache gun cams and the radio chatter as opposed to filler or recreated footage.
The scenes showing what the small arms fire coming up from the urban areas after the “signal” was given is harrowing, when the situation escalates real fast.
Thats a great documentary and i was thinking about that as well
Thank you. Watching it now
@@CcdddtttIt was all actual footage as the first guy said.
Thanks for the heads up, found it on Prime and I'll watch it later. @vi3tmix
After a quick search it looks like it's "free with ads" here on YT, for those without Prime.
"Overconfident is the greatest enemy in the battlefield." - Hikaru Ichijyo
Right on! 1970s Marxist Angela Davis
it should also be noted that at the time of the blue on blue the air defense system was not informed of what was even going on with the air force or to be expecting any planes it seems crazy to think that communication between branches was so weak back then given how intense it is now
If you think about it, you will understand why it is so intense now. Lessons have to be learned, or they are a waste of time and other people's lives.
@@willdsm08 thats not what i was saying i was saying its crazy that it wasn't already like that before
@@Broken_dish i think it was because of bad winning mentality
As a former AH-1 and then AH-64 pilot (1989-1994) none of this is a surprise. Army aviation was full of brave intelligent officers but none of the tactics in place had really been tried in combat. This mission reveals the flawed concept of the attack helicopter in general. They are far too vulnerable to even small arms fire. On a macro scale you have to realize that all of this treasure was expended for the sake of non-existent WMD that the Bush administration either knew were not there, or it represents the most colossal intelligence failure in US history. Take your pick.
Neocon and Democrat MIC profiteering. Biden is doing it again now. JFK was going to shut it down, and look at the result back then. Same with Trump.
At least we took down a dictator, doesn't matter if lies got us there. Being led by a moron like Bush is definitely not preferred during war though
Sums it up nicely. We are failed by the highest levels of leadership in this country.
It really be that way these days. The people working at ground level really are keeping the fires out while higher level leadership feel complacent and detached from how things really work and they don't care.
I always thought Attack Helicopters were immune to small arms, but this video prove me otherwise.
The war was decided THEN the reason was found.
The fact that they actually thought they could use Apaches this way instead of as long range anti tank support for infantry and armored attacks is just crazy.
I think because it worked in 1991. But the arrogance was that they assumed the Iraqis hadn’t learned anything.
The US military continually falls victim to it's own propaganda. We still think we are the same force that came out of WW2 (and was then soundly defeated in Korea by the way) and can do whatever we want whenever we want because we haven't fought an enemy with military parity in going on 50 years. Turns out, military parity doesn't just mean having the most expensive equipment. Those $20 million apaches were all damaged and downed by weapons that were made by soviet factories 30 years prior and probably cost a few dollars to fire.
@@PRC533soundly defeated in Korea. This ricecel is fuming. What’s it like having your crush and all sisters getting that BWC? Bet one White dude has serviced them all.
@@PRC533 I mean yeah, the UN troops were nearly kicked out of Korea all together until the reinforcements arrived.
@@PRC533Gonna be blunt, nothing you said makes any sense to me. First of all, if we were defeated in Korea then South Korea wouldn't exist. We succeeded in Korea, I can't fathom seeing it any other way
Secondly, the US military of today is a radically different beast from the one that fought WWII so what do you mean by US thinking it's the same? The perception of the US military now is completely different to the perception of it during WWII
Anybody notice a huge contrast between the successes of Desert Storm compared to OIF?
Desert Storm had realistic goals and the "righteous" cause of liberating a small nation from an aggressor.
Iraqi Freedom had an unrealistic scope and undefined goals, while the reasoning for invading in the first place was not sound.
No. This is how a actual war sadly is. Not a 5 day thunder run . The Iraq war was by all purposes a complete succes. Those "failures" in the vid while of course still tragedies are very coldy said very much acceptable and expected casualities that happens in chaos of pushing into enemy territory.
@@two-tone4594 Basically this. No clear goal, no justification.
@@asdf-sr1ny The justification part is incorrect. Their was plenty of good reasons to take Saddam out. The problem is that the politicians screwed it all up and made really bad decisions. They should never have tried the "nation building" or used nukes as the excuse without being certain.
Desert storm was an air campaign first then a massive invasion. Iraqi freedom was immediately going in guns blazing. And the Iraqis where more prepared than desert storm
I was at that battle fighting on the Iraqi side, it was Nebuchanezzar infantry division who fought against the Apaches, not Medina armored division
The Apaches in the video never make it to the Medina Armored Division to attack them.
@@webby2275 yes, we rained fire on them with our anti-aircraft guns, but the fact is; despite they were trying to find Medina division, they were attacking at the wrong place, Medina devision was further North and North west, they didn’t expect Nebuchudnassar division here, which actually moved from Kirkuk to Hilla south of Baghdad before the war, and No we didn’t set up a plan or had a plan to fight the Apaches before the war as the Americans imagined later, the defense was prepared with anti-aircraft fire in case the 101st or the 82nd AB divisions land with Blackhawks and Chinooks behind or lines, another myth is the electricity on and off signal, that was another imaginary thing by the Americans, electricity in Iraq were on and off every 3 hours per day, the off hours are covered by private generators, that was what the pilots saw and think it was a signal, but there was no signal at all
@@darhammora7867 how does it feel being on the losing side ?
Cool story bro
@@Uncle-Sam-lm3hz2ng8q we actually won that battle
I remember the RAF Tornado shoot down as there were journalists in the 101st Airborne harbour area below who saw the incident
I remember that too.
I don't know what they expected flying low above urban zones populated with enemy infantry
They expected an empty desert, because someone with more bars than brain cells didn't check a map, or get any intelligence support.
@@Skorpychan I wonder if that is the real reason. Most of the urban areas in Iraq are along this corridor (the rivers). Diverting to go around might not have been possible with available fuel.
@@SkorpychanYou saying things just to say things, or did they *actually* not do recon?
@@Red-Magic It says in the video that they expected to find empty desert, but hadn't done their homework.
The first rule of operational planning is 'do your fucking homework', after all. It goes right back to Sun Tzu, too; 'know your enemy'.
Or the 7 Ps of the british army; Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
@@Skorpychan this is why i always scout when playing RTS games.
It's a small moment in this video, but I do want to say thank you for not just parroting the stupid narrative around the RAF tornado and patriot event. Far too many times I see people on the internet say that the Patriot automatically fired at the tornado because it thought it was a cruise missile when that's not how patriot works. Also, too many times with this story I hear people talking about how coalition Air forces became scared of the Patriot batteries who were assisting them which is also not true.
Thank you for actually doing the research on that part and not contributing to the amplification of the dumb stuff.
Well, Patriot does have a few Frats under it's belt...but yea, not as often stated.
@@MattH-wg7ou if I remember correctly, it's a maximum of three and all cases involved bad IFF responders and pilots that were either flying like a ballistic missile or an electrical fault in the classification system. Crucially none of the cases that I know of did the Patriot fire automatically. There were other failed checks before the Patriot system was told to fire
I don't understand how they didn't take a hint, that it would have appeared like one RAF was flying right next to a "cruise missile" and didn't think anything of it.
@@rdxzero that situation is more possible than you might think in a hectic environment like an active warzone. The two anti-ship missiles that were fired at USS Missouri during the first invasion of Iraq flew almost directly down the designated flight pathways for coalition aircraft.
You cannot rely on proximity to other aircraft to identify friend or foe. What could have prevented this was having a liaison attached to the Patriot command structure to allow for better communications because one of the checks that the Patriot team should have attempted to run was asking up the chain of command if there was a flight who is supposed to have been in that area.
I don't remember actual dates just now but here is my experience of Patriot/Kuwait etc in that period. I was overseeing the installation and commissioning of a 2 way radio system for the Kuwait Air Force.This was a nation-wide system so we had radio sites all around the country and one of these was on Kuwait International airport. When I first arrived at the radio shelter where oour kit was installed, there was an American working on some other equipment installed in the same room and he was cursing and tearing his hair out. I got talking to him and asked what was his problem. He told me he was from Raytheon and he was installing a Patriot system at the airport and he had an issue he couldn't figure out. He showed me how there was a huge radar return on his kit and he could not explain it. We looked at the bearing and I took him outside with a compass, set the compass to that bearing and showed him how the airport's radar installation was only a mile or two away and situated exactly on the bearing from where the false returns were coming.
That is really top notch work. And the video montage is really solid too!
Excellent video, thank you. I've always wanted to know more about this particular event, well produced. Thanks again!
I think the problem here was similar to the one that led to the Desert One disaster in Operation Eagle Claw - every service wanted a piece of the action even if they weren’t suited for it or the mission didn’t require it. Slow, noisy, vulnerable attack helicopters going on a long-distance mass raid? What could go wrong?
This operation detailed the great flaw in post Cold War Apache helicopter tactics. During the Cold War Apaches could sit behind hills and pop up to wear out Soviet Pact armored divisions from a distance as those forces advanced. Few Soviet anti-aircraft assets could touch them and those that could were likely attrited by NATO ground forces before they had the opportunity to. Once the Apaches expended their ordnance they could with draw along defended egress routes to refuel, rearm, and then return.
But in the post Cold War era the US Army developed the Deep Attack tactic to use Apaches offensively against enemy forces behind their own lines. These required elaborate coordination and Suppression of Enemy Air Defense (SEAD) artillery fires to succeed. Not only that, but the only artillery systems that could reliably attack deep behind enemy lines were the Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) firing the Army Tactical Missile System (ATACM). ATACMS are large - an MLRS launcher can only fire two and the later HIMARS launcher can only fire one. These were great against large Anti Aircraft weapon systems (provided they were correctly identified and located among all the decoys Iraqis set up). But even mere infantry units could ambush Apaches as they went by. Infantry forces too large, possibly too entrenched and dispersed for ATACMS to be useful. Though in a well coordinated attack such infantry wouldn't be positioned to do much effect. But in this case, per the video, the attack was too telegraphed so the Iraqis were. Of course this begged the question, why use men and helicopters supported by multi million dollar missiles in elaborate attacks when the missiles themselves could do the job? The answer: The US Army didn't want to discard an entire branch.
That's not to say such operations were impossible. Other Apache deep attacks during the invasion with well coordinated SEAD succeeded nicely. Also, the Apache went on to have considerably more success supporting infantry in counter insurgency fights later on. Ultimately, I think the Apache unit commanders were too eager and ignored the red flags.
SEAD integration is one of the most difficult of aviation mission planning considerations IMO. But absolutely critical, as you explained.
One of the things said about the MLRS at the time was it could delete a grid square. That is likely why they weren't used for this mission, it would not play out well to demolish urban areas even if enemy forces are there.
@@gobblox38 An MLRS can't quite delete a grid square. But it can come pretty close if they throw all 12 of the right types of missiles at one. But for a single anti aircraft position it only needs one missile. They were pretty accurate (and even more accurate now). So no need to saturate an entire corridor for the Apaches to fly through for max Geneva Convention violations.
MLRS uses Dual Purpose Improved Conventional Munitions (DPICM) which are little bomblets. They're pretty good against most things except robust buildings and bunkers. Which are the same munitions an ATACMS uses. The real MLRS Deep Attack weakness is they can't range as far as the Apaches need them to. The Apaches need them to go hundreds of kilometers beyond the front line and they could only go 32 kilometers at the time (newer rockets go farther). ATACMS, which could go 300 kilometers. Due to their scarcity they would only be used vs. major anti-aircraft sites.
Thanks for a great installment of the series!
Great job, excellent production. Keep up the great work and
God Bless.
Great video. From the start of the re-fueling in this mission right up till engagement itself, I could just tell why this mission went wrong.
Another great addition to the series
Thank you for this, It's been so many years and only now am I hearing this.
They sent my happy butt to Iraq in December 2003. In that time the Army pounded into our heads on what to do if in a ambush, like the 507th. We spent the better part of two weeks going over this, one week at Fort Riley and one more week at BIAP. I was a late arrival for my unit, so I was lumped in with a bunch of other people from different units for these training weeks.
Fortunately the people I was with knew what they were doing, they had experience, some had served in combat before this. Except for two guys. We formed groups and our job was to search a vehicle and the occupants as if we are at a checkpoint. Two soldiers acted like Iraqis and would try to either get away or set off the 'bomb'. These two guys didn't take it seriously in their search. For some reason they just started laughing and one of the Iraqis 'blew up' the car. The sergeants running the show berated these guys and ordered them to the back of the line to do it again.
Later on, we formed two squads to assault an Iraqi militant camp. It really was those two sergeants standing in a open area. Everything was simulated. One squad laid down fire while my squad advanced on the right flank. When it was our turn to lay down fire, the first squad advanced. There was this thin stream of water moving through the cleared area. Surprisingly it rained when I reached Iraq. The first squad reached this stream and one of the guys tried to tip toe around or over it. The sergeants, again, laid into them. "You afraid of getting your feet wet?! This is a war zone! Why are you afraid of getting your boots wet? It's mud! It's not going to hurt you! Bullets will!"
That was the theme throughout the training. "If you don't pay attention. If you don't follow instructions. If you try to be soft and avoid getting dirty, then you're not going to make it out."
Oh, for some reason the sergeants also brought out an empty body bag, and told me to lay on top of it. On top, not in it, and to lay perfectly still. As I did so and staring up at the bright blue sky, a helicopter went flying by. "You hear that? That chopper is coming to get you. If you don't pay attention this is how you're going to end up!" I don't know why I was chosen for that one. I think I was just the first person that sergeant saw. Anyway, fun times.
Last thing, the place we did the training was on one section of the airport. There was one of Saddam son's houses we were at. They had one of their nice cards there, too. We got to see it.
I was in OEF stateside as an Instructor trainer (Reserve) for Mobilizing units. My training team linked with an MP team preparing an MP Company to deploy. They had several canned scenarios for reactions to situations ranging from Lady with a baby and 9mm Pistol hidden, to checkpoint search, react to ambush, react to civilian unrest. I led the OPFOR group (about 30 individuals) and coached them on roleplay and realism, because I was the one always coming up with screwy OPFOR scenarios.
The last scenario was the full company in what we dubbed "Black Tank Down" . The MOUT site had 3 Tanks outside the village, and the mission was the same as Mogadishu, secure a primary building, gain entry, secure HVT's and extract, while providing area security for the operation. In preparing my OPFOR, I started placing people in and around the village. Snipers, LMG's, Rifle toters, the lady with the baby and her husband (as civilians), civilians hanging out on door steps, running in the streets just ahead of the convoy ingress, all the while giving direction on what they represented, actions on contact, use of smoke and what events triggered response. The AC MP team Training officer yelled at me saying "Who do you think you are Jerry Bruckheimer?" I yelled back "YES, because it has to be REAL, and CRAZY or these guys are gonna DIE".
The op went down, they went in. The MP team OIC (Who I had trained with before) Played the village mayor protesting the intrusion, and as he screamed back and approached the lead MP vehicle, someone capped him (blanks). He falls face first in a puddle and the ruckus begins. 3 of 4 HMMWV top gunners down in the first minute. ALL the chaos, smoke, blank fire, sim munitions, pure CHAOS. The get in, get the HVT's, Call for the QRF, Get a call that a perimeter tank took an RPG hit and needs Medevac. HVT's get evacuated, remaining units go to the Medevac, village uprises chasing them. They get casualty out, drive away, leaving 3 troops (2 wounded) running behind screaming for a ride. Yep...
At the AAR, with a completely exhausted, sweat drenched, cramped up (and a few puking) Company, I asked if it seemed real enough. I got a resounding yes, then told them one thing was missing... spilled blood. Sobered them up, but got their gears working upstairs. The harder you make it in training, the easier when boots hit the ground. Last I heard the entire company deployed and returned with no lives lost.
Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. Do you feel like your training prepared you for combat at all?
I'm at Riley now. Terribly boring place, but that comes with Kansas
Your sergeant sounds like he was an interesting guy.
Now *this* deserves a damn Sabaton song. "Hellride of the Valkyries", a fast-paced song about the ill-fated helicopter attack during the war of 2003
I would listen to it!
Yeah pretty unlikely sabaton really doesn’t do modern conflicts since it’s kinda inappropriate to make a song about war that really didn’t happen that long ago but it would be interesting
@@CJDunehew1
...they've literally already made one song about this war, Panzer Battalion. And they made a song about Desert Storm (Reign of Terror), a song about the War on Terror (In the name of God), one about the breakup of Yugoslavia (We burn) and one about the efforts of the UN soldiers from the past until today.
@@Paveway-chan oh yeah they but that was really before the band got popular and joakim said in an interview that the band would stop singing about modern conflicts since as I said in my previous comment that they felt it was inappropriate to talk about modern wars
Crashed into an Iraqi Rice paddy? Not something I'd expect to hear. But, here we are.
Iraq is an anglicisation of Uruk, which was the first city in the world, remember.
Not that they don't exist, but an obvious correlation to the history that veteran pilot also experienced in Vietnam. @@Skorpychan
The central valley in Iraq is quite wet...under the dirt. The water table is so high that after a good rain or a sewer main breaking, water will spontaneously form small ponds on what was dry ground only a day earlier.
What do you think they eat? Sand?
An obvious correlation to the history that veteran pilot also experienced in Vietnam.@@CountingStars333
this series has been incredible so far
These guys continue to hit home run after home run.
Bloody hell, that was one clusterfuck of a mission.
I worked with Mike Barbee a few years after this event. At the time of the invasion I was in Kuwait (4ID) watching some of their battle damaged 64's low-boyed back to Udari. We pushed up the next day and joined the show.
Love that this just came out as i was looking for something to watch
ua-cam.com/users/shortsOBUOPLEbLSE?si=JmFo_BB2--Q4hvM0
Americans love watching cartoons about how their forces killed the others.
At 4:20 it is much more common to say/hear 1-227 as one-two two seven opposed to First - two twenty seven (I was formerly attached to that same battalion. Awesome video as always!
Or First Batt.
Your voice is perfect for these great vids.
They thought they'd be going over open desert, but they were actually going over urban areas? I would have thought they'd have satellite pictures from 6 months before or less. Even for 2003 that seems plausible. I don't understand how that kind of mistake could happen.
Rookie level recon.
They made it assymetrical. A smart choice against the US. Put ZSU-23s etc. on apartment building roofs, etc. We were still looking for traditional FSU style emplacements apparently.
It was the mistake of thinking middle east is in Europe.
The differences stretches to ancient time. Old texts written how war took place inside the cities where the citizens were butchers.
In Europe the war ended once the city wall was breached since the value of the city was considered greater.
Middle east has no real estate value. It's a poo hole with people living in buildings held with cow poo.
Those urbans are no cities but underground mafia. The shitties people can be found in the shittiest places.
I love your videos, but I have a question: would you ever consider remaking old videos with the new enhanced graphics?
Great video mate!
I appreciate this series, in addition to all the other work you do. I wasn’t part of the initial invasion, but I spent the latter half of 2004, the first half of 2006, and a whole f’n year in 2007-8 in that country. Then on to a different war in Asia. I found the people and cultures fascinating. I’d love to go back and visit both countries, especially the cities/provinces I fought in. I wish the people of both Iraq and Afghanistan peace. They had/have some brave mfkrs in their ranks. They also have many cowards, as well.
Pretty ironic that Mike Durant's own co-pilot was shot down and captured too.
Fate.
Misplaced confidence
I learned about this dust up from a coworker whose son was a helicopter pilot in this raid. He told me how badly they got shot up. Didn't hear about it on the news. Nothing but good news about the war..... His son got back ok. Their last name was Perry. I was looking for his name on this video, but I didn't see it.
The crash landed Apache was featured pretty prominently on the nightly news. I remember seeing those back then. I think they even showed 2 of the captured pilots
Did they show the thousands of Iraqis we killed for defending their homeland from our illegal invasion? No? That part wasn't on the news?@@kingofwishfulthinking2490
@@kingofwishfulthinking2490 Man I was glued to 24 hr news networks and I never saw a hint of this. Did they portray this whole messed up operation, or just a helicopter crash, or 2?
I've seen the Army lie about something I was involved in that didn't even make us look bad and actually reinforced why we were still there in 2006. It was in the mess hall of camp Stryker, in November 2006, with CNN playing on the tv's, that any and all trust that I had for the government evaporated.
@@FighteroftheNightmanthat is why when russians/chineese invade you should lay down your arms.
Im just finding these after recommendation from a buddy. These videos are absolutely awesome. I got lucky/unlucky and my ets date was june of 2001 from the Army where i was an 11b on Drum . I was working at a budweiser warehouse driving a forklift on 9/11
And watched the second tower get struck on tv. Never in my life have i felt a more mixed up set of emotions from relief to anger to disappointment as i did that day realizing my unit was about to deploy just months after i got out....
Nice job taking into account the pod jettison in animation :)
Desert Storm: Brilliantly planned, wonderfully executed, some lessons to learn afterwards in regard to leaving certain areas relatively undefended
Iraqi Freedom: Flags Of Our Fuck Ups
Iraqi Freedom: YEEEE FUCKING HAAAAW
Lol. "Mission Accomplished." 😂
Although my dad's deployment started at the finale of the Iraq War, he faced true hardship and horror in the desert sands of Afghanistan. As a Blackhawk pilot and combat medic, I'm still unsure that I can imagine what he must have seen out there since nowadays, his mind is so warped by his PTSD and bipolar disorder that he's been in and out of several rehab facilities ever since he returned home. I've hardly seen him in my life from the fifth grade onward. I applaud and thank those who served out in these wars, especially since they ended up being largely for nothing. I myself am going to join the Oregon Air National Guard, learning both from my father's mistakes, and also considering how I'd be largely useless in the Marines or Navy. The Air Force actually treats its troops well, and despite it getting memed upon by service personnel, deep down, they know how important it is. I want to serve, but I want to still be me. Sorry for the long speech. 😅
You do you dude. You'll learn early on your career is your own, you are your own advocate. Friendly banter is just that, but don't let the nay sayers get to you. Everyone does their part in their own capacity. I myself have been in the RCN for about 12 years and still going so I've got quite abit of experience navy side and working closing with the airdet on-board ships. Good luck and don't take the silly stuff too seriously 😊
Medics see a lot of bad stuff, dealing with wounded.
Air combat is hard on the human body.
My father used to talk about hosing out cockpits after missions in WW2.
@@genevieve.annabelle3296 Thanks man! I'm going to enlist as an aircraft maintainer, and then with the money I earn, I'll pursue both a bachelor's degree and a private pilot license so that I can try my luck at becoming a pilot. I'd love to fly the F-35, but I know that my odds are low. To me it's still absolutely worth trying/attempting! :D
@@patrickkenyon2326 they definitely do
Tip of the hat from Beaverton young fella.
Glad we covered on this messy incident.
I enjoyed your video so I gave it a Thumbs Up
I remember when that apache was still sitting in our motor pool before it got sent in to get rebuilt. Had more holes that a block of Swiss cheese
Is this is where that scene in Generation Kill comes from? the one with Godfather explaining that 36 Apaches got turned away and a few got shot down?
Correct 👍
So far in ALL of the videos I've watched, impatience in Leadership is the starting point of a series of deadly problems.
The change to guerrilla warfare is a small factor. just shocking tactics and poor planning really. doctrinally this is not how attack helicopters are meant to be used and yet they did it anyway
Sometimes a commander's poor planning is soldier's worst enemy.
Damn the operations room dropping videos like its invading countries providing freedom
huh?
Fr i hate his bias
@@Ali-ou9lc That's not what he meant. And your name says all I need to know. You have the bias here.
That's a good joke you made about the war crimes that killed hundreds of thousands of people.
I think if the entire force would have made muster for this mission, the casualties would have been much higher. They should have scrubbed the mission when the fuel wasn't showing up. Things like this compound into disasters.
Remember for every "badass" operation you have like the Baghdad Thunder Run and the Highway of death, there is an operation like this on all sides.
Missions like this and Zach Hazard's Bradley Story helped me realize just how much of a SNAFU OIF was.
These recent episodes just show how bad the invasion actually went.
The overall invasion still went incredibly well. Despite losing part of a convoy, a Tornado, and one helicopter, the entire country of Iraq was capitulated in less than 2 months.
By “bad” you mean good right? Because Iraq as a country fell in less than 2 weeks. The coalition forces defeated one of the largest militaries in the world. People are going to die and things are going to go pear shaped sometimes but over all the 2003 invasion of Iraq will go down in history as one of the fastest. Shock and Awe wasn’t just a catch phrase, it was the backbone behind mission planning. Speed, surprise, violence of action. It is a high risk, high reward approach to war fighting. The invasion went well. It was the post invasion planning that was a soup sandwich.
The invasion in all did not go badly. But there where some flaws in it
I should clarify: yes, the overall invasion went fairly well, but there was just some parts that went to hell because of a multitude of factors.
@@zacharybaird9236 no plan survives first contact with the enemy. there is always going to be things that go wrong, the more important thing to look at is how the allies adapted to the differing situations
Love the videos
Including this one you haven't watched yet?
I knew from the start that this war was a giant cockup, didn't know there were so many cockups at the detailed level as well.
Interesting video… different perspective from Marines on the ground… post fall (april-ish) We would subsequently take and occupy the power station in Iskandariya… Haswa is not a great place either
Britain: More losses to American friendly fire than enemy......jeez, its the gulf war all over again for real.
In what magical planet do you live where Britain hasn't had blue on blue? Quite sad that some people constantly have to bring it up over and over. S**t happens in war. Get over it.
Dad was a veteran of the Africa campaign and Europe in WW11, he always said when the Luftwaffe came over we ducked, when the RAF came over the Germans ducked and when the Yanks came over we all ducked.
@@orwellboy1958 I've seen a LOT of people say that exact same line. Sure your dad did.
@@orwellboy1958My American grandfather said everybody would duck when the RAF would go on strafing runs. The RAF pilots in Europe had a tendency for shooting at their own even to the point where they confused a British light cruiser for a German battleship, Bismarck and launched a torpedo at the RN light cruiser.
@@cbbees1468 FAA pilots, not RAF. How good is your ship recognition when flying in an open cockpit Swordfish over the North Atlantic in poor weather? Yes they screwed up but that wasn't exactly rare in WWII.
4:55 What a stupid order, you can't expect everything to just skip 24h ahead, clearly they were not ready for this assault. It's one thing when some stupid manager at work says it has to be done anyway, but this is playing with lives...
mission leader was clearly mentally ill to approve this ... now he is usual boomer complainer back at home :D
It'd be nice to have a date and local time stamp in the corner to get a better big picture understanding of the unfolding events.
I LOVE THIS CHANNEL
Yikes, I wasn't expecting any of the battles in this series to end with a complete Iraqi victory
No army is invulnerable, that's for certain
Guerrilla warfare is an admission of defeat.
@@naamadossantossilva4736 - no it isn't lol
@@naamadossantossilva4736 huh. It's been pretty effective against the US military
@@Nightdiver20 Hardly, America usually chose when to leave they were never run out.
So...my cat usually doesn't care about anything on TV. My cat attacked the little helicopters on the screen. Lol... had Oscar for years and he never reacted to a TV until this.
Best comment
Ah Najaf during that sandstorm was wild
Considering the difference in technology from the Gulf war and OIF one has to wonder how in the hell this could even possibly happen.
Maybe because 9 of 10 indicators said they should cancel the mission and in their hubris they tried their little air assault anyways and got what they had coming to them, considering they were the foot soldiers of an illegal invasion based on war profiteering.
Easy to explain: in DS we expected a slog, and we got unexpected easy wins. So for OIF the guys running the show got cocky and planned for what they got during DS. Meanwhile, the enemy ALSO planned for what they got. So we ended up coming less prepared and they came more. Easy to see why this happened.
@@mikesimms5750 hindsight is always 20/20 that's why it's easy.
Over confidence
Ah . . . what can go wrong, will go wrong (at the worst possible moment). Thank you Murphy's Law.
Task and purpose got in trouble for not saying goat guns don’t actually shoot😂
Ops Room already got hit with a demonitization for one of the ads for Goad Guns, I think the first or second time they featured them. It's so absurd and frustrating.
Wow
I wonder if you can sue UA-cam for stuff like that?
wait what’s wrong with the little guns?
@@damienzuniga3722there's nothing wrong with goatguns. UA-cam is just run by idiots who can't tell real guns from small gun models.
Thank you.
Thanks for the details I remember it, was so quick… technically the iraqi didn’t really fight until after the fall of Baghdad
Interesting to see cases where poor planning, intel, and communication cause much worse outcomes than expected, and yet the majority of personnel make it back safe. Did they get lucky? Or is there a significant buffer for crew safety designed into these vehicles? The previous video had lightly armored vehicles take small arms and RPG fire with the majority surviving as well.
It's missions like these that people will refer to when they make the argument on whether attack helicopters are obsolete or not. Eventually, I imagine attack helicopters will be phased out in favor of drones, but the currently available drones don't have the same firepower that helicopters do. Technology should eventually close the gap, though.
Really, being a military chopper pilot and/or gunner is extremely dangerous these days, as the Ukraine war has shown. Of course, part of that is due to bad tactics (i.e. not clearing out AA defenses first), but it's getting increasingly easier to shoot down helicopters without large-scale anti-air weapons. Losing drones would still be expensive, but it wouldn't cost you pilots or other lives involved in rescue operations.
I am a former Apache mechanic and there is one flaw here - this video mentions several times the resilient armor of the Apache. The Apache has zero armor whatsoever, save for the pilot seats which are made of slightly armored material.
Eerily similar to Op Eagle Claw twenty years earlier!
I see a lot of comments comparing this to Desert Storm and making the conclusion that Iraqi Freedom was dysfunctional. I think that view completely misunderstands the differences of the campaigns, and frankly does a disservice to the complexity of OIF. Strictly from a military perspective the initial invasion of Operation Iraqi Freedom was highly successful
Desert Storm had a clear and much more limited objective, the removal of the Iraqi army from Kuwait. The coalition was larger and there were more friendly countries allowing military access for the campaign. Iraqi freedom was smaller in scale, in part due to less international support, but also because war planners wanted logistics simplified to facilitate a rapid advance towards Baghdad. This was done to preserve as much of the civilian infrastructure as possible. Unlike Desert Storm there was no prolonged air campaign, instead the ground assault was to take place simultaneously in order for the advance to move as quickly as possible. In the end the invasion achieved its initial objectives, Saddam’s regime was overthrown and the critical infrastructure was captured before it could be destroyed. A small invasion force had moved at lightning pace and captured a country with an army numbering 500,000, while only suffering a few hundred casualties in return. Political views aside, it cannot be denied that the invasion was very successful and a model of modern maneuver warfare.
I compared it to D-Day to another commentator. Also went "badly" if you only highlight the screwups. I am not sure why Ops Room only covered those so far.
Why were the Apaches flying so low? To avoid SAMs? Genuine question, im no expert but it seems flying at even 1000FT would drastically reduce the threat/impact of small arms fire?
Reduces the threat of SAMs but increases the threat of AAA and small arms 👍
@@TheOperationsRoomthis. Its a tradeoff. Larger radar horizon/vulnerability to Tac/Strat SAMs vs Vulnerability to AAA/SA and increased risk of hitting the ground or something attached to it.
@@TheOperationsRoom Ahh I see, thank you!
0:48 I know they're models but that mini Sig Rattler's red dot is installed backwards
Helicopter crews are among the highest casualtys of any unit
Even within the first few days, you can really see how much of a fustercluck Iraqi Freedom was compared to Desert Storm. And the war really hadn't even begun yet.
Have you ever actually studied Desert Storm? The (again) American-on-British friendly fire incidents? The amazing cluster-f&ck that was the Battle of Khafji? The massive confusion in the big battles against the Republican Guard? The scramble to hunt down the Scud launchers? Bravo 2-0's lost adventure?
The lesson is always the same: NOTHING ever goes perfectly. There was a lot more going on (successfully) than what Ops Room is highlighting.
@@MM22966 I'm aware of those incidents, as well as things like that B-52 getting shot with a HARM. But overall, the issues in Desert Storm seem minor in comparison to OIF. They didn't hinder the overall operations, and even the failings in finding the Scuds didn't result in Saddam having some sort of decisive advantage aside from blowing up some random buildings in Israel. And as much as Khafji was a mess for the coalition it was an unmitigated disaster for Iraq.
On the other hand, with the 2003 invasion, problems seem deep set at the political and operational level. Confusion about the situation reigned even before 9/11 because of Southern Watch, which left us in a weird, semi state of undeclared war with them for a decade. The justification made no sense, and the goals were far less clear than in 91. I mean I guess taking out Saddam is fairly clear but after that they kind of just assume everything will work out. So with all this going on the operation doesn't even have a clear starting point, due to our anger and arrogance things like the raids Ops Room showed were happening even before it had technically begun. Then they move the whole operation up, starting the ground invasion before the air war. They probably didn't need a 1:1 repeat of the 91 air campaign due to the weakened state of Iraq but they should've at least waited a little bit imo.
Idk in general with Iraqi Freedom there seem to be major mishaps at every corner, compared to the clockwork (with exceptions, yes) of ODS. In the end the conventional invasion did end in a victory, and I wouldn't characterize it as an overall bad campaign. My point is that the US was overconfident and had deficiencies in planning because of shortsightedness, which led to unnecessary failures in what was already a morally ambiguous invasion.
I was there in Ali Al Salem during the war. I clearly remember the loud Tornados taking off and at night, at the end of the mission some of them would release the flares while above the base. But no one ever mentioned the friendly fire, this is the first time hearing it. 😢😢
It was on the big screen news in the DFACs.
What a costly lesson... hopefully something was learned from all this.
These videos are probably already arduous to make, but short statements about the fate of Williams, did the Tornado incident lead to any changes in anything/was anyone punished and did the Apache raid operation planner/commander get reprimanded or punished afterwards would go a long way.
was just watching the previous video when this one comes out, did a double take
2:59 Did the Tornado not have a radar warning receiver that would've told it that it was being illuminated by a fire control radar?
Someone will need to confirm…But I think one of the qualities of how patriot system works is it doesn’t “paint” the target in the same way like previous systems do so no alert is received or its very late. But I’m no expert, I’m only repeating what I thought I heard somewhere
Patriot guides the missiles with the main battery radar until the last second. Planes only see it as a normal radar until it's too late. Habitual Line Crosser can explain it better. He also explained what happened with the two friendly fire incidents.
@@krunk28 I like HLC's stuff, "We screwed up, we learned and changed things so it wouldn't happen again".
Wow, what a complete misuse of attack helicopters. The original concept back in the 1970s was that it would be a fast-moving anti-tank ambush force, repositioning quickly over FREINDLY territory to get in front of a Soviet armoured advance and then slowing it up by using pop-up ATGW attacks from below the tree line. Helicopters CANNOT fly deep penetration missions over hostile territory full of AAA and couldn't survive for long doing so, as Mogadishu demonstrated clearly: they're too slow and too easy to hit. The only way you can use helos for deep-pen is if you can plot a course over uninhabited territory that also features enough terrain cover to mask you from hostile SAMs and/or fighters.
Ironically, the Europeans' first anti-tank helos, like the Gazelle, Lynx and Bo-105, stuck to the concept out of neccessity, because they were adaptions of unarmoured light helos with bolt-on missiles and sights, so their operators were under no illusion that they could shrug off AAA like an A-10. However the US Army had used Hueycobras as general purpose fire-support and escort aircraft in Virtnam after being denied a fixed-wing air arm of their own, so they were always more inclined to try to build an "all missions" air force of their own using the only things they were allowed, i.e. helos. However Vietnam wasn't a modern high-tech battlefield, and even there, helo losses were high. It should have been obvious that they wern't going to survive sophisticated and dense AAA and SAM defences.
The US Army realized after the end of the Cold War the entire rationale and stratagy for having Apaches went out the window for the reasons you specified in your first paragraph. Instead of dispensing with them (and the lucrative contracts with the aircraft manufacturers) they developed the Deep Attack doctrine. In the Deep Attack Apaches attack major enemy targets deep behind their lines. To counter the obvious problems you cite, the US Army used Intelligence Recon and Surveillance assets to locate major enemy anti aircraft locations over watching the attack routes and suppress them. This was called SEAD or Suppression of Enemy Air Defense. Initial ADA sites could be attacked with howitzers but deeper targets required MLRS or ATACMS. It took considerable coordination between the Apache units, intel assets (not all Army) and the Field Artillery. It could be done and was done successfully in Iraq. But in this case the complexity of the operation and the oversized enthusiasm of the planners ruined it by telegraphing the route the Apaches would take. This put all the Iraqi infantry units en route on high alert with disastrous results.
lol, you’re not very educated on attack aviation tactics and missions, obviously. Desert Storm was successful BECAUSE of a deep attack using Apaches that took out the Iraqi air defenses. This is exactly one of the missions they were designed for.
@@brianhaas9071 First paragraph I said this:
"The only way you can use helos for deep-pen is if you can plot a course over uninhabited territory that also features enough terrain cover to mask you from hostile SAMs and/or fighters."
That's exactly what was done in Desert Storm. This is a mission that was developed long AFTER Apaches were introduced. The original 1970s primary mission (which pre-dated the Apache) was a defensive battle against Warsaw Pact forces in Europe as I described. However, alsoas I described, US Army aviation has always aspired to be a "full air force" so they kept developing these expanded roles for the Apache.
I think the results of the action described in the video, the Mogadishu incident and the huge helo losses in Vietnam demonstrate clearly that helos shouldn't be stooging around over "hornets' nest" type areas where they're subjected to concentrated AAA/MANPADS threats from multiple directions: they're simply too easy to hit with too many things.
will you make a video about the final battle of bagdad?
I didn't know there was so many mess ups!
The name "operation Iraqi freedom" still makes me chuckle today. What a joke, more like "operation American ego" 😂😂😂
Wait, so the Patriot detected both tornados, but only fired at one?
I think that he said only one had its IFF turned off.
@@billweasley1382 but still they detected a friendly aircraft and a mysterious other signal flying right alongside it and still chose to fire?
@@billweasley1382 huh that's strange. I know it was mentioned that Patriot operators are trained to fire a minute after detection (if IFF doesnt show friendly), but damn you'd think they would at least have at least checked with the friendly tornado if they were being followed by a hostile.
However I can understand that in reality, in a situation like that, you most likely cant afford the time to check when every second can determine the fate of your allies.
@@vortigan9068 I don't have any special knowledge about it. I'm just repeating what I heard in the video.
Every unit has their own radio frequency so attempting to reach other units without higher ups. The safety measures failed to transpond
That's mad to think there was Vietnam vets still on the battlefield during the early 00s
It doesn't make sense to me that they flew so low over small arms. Did they not realize that it made them a fat juicy target? And flying straight over the city rather than engaging from a safe distance? Insane.
Modern attack helicopter tactics had to be developed somehow...in 2023 it's easy to look back and say "how did you not know to do what we do now?"
There was still a great fear of Iraqs Tactical and Strategic SAMs which would smoke any vulnerable helos who dared to get too high and make their radar horizon too large.
As is the dilemma: stay low and risk hitting the ground and AAA and Small Arms fire or stay high and risk Tac/Strat SAM engagement.
This is why having good intel, a good EOB/DMOB/SAM laydown, good mission planning and route assessment, and effective SEAD/EA are critical!
@jjhh320 Even back then it'd be common sense to fly above and out of range of small arms. That's simple, easy.
They also didn’t have proper maps of the area. They had requested other routes to use but were denied because the 101st would be using them the next night.
I was a crewchief in A co. 1-227 at the time. I remember recovering my aircraft when they got back from that mission. The stare on the pilot's pale faces said it all. Ground fire from everywhere. And then that dust storm rolled over us for four days. It took almost a week to get most of those aircraft ready to fight again. Battle damage everywhere.
Despite the equal number of operations that went like clockwork in the 2003 invasion, disasters like these make me question who should have won.
The photographs of the crashed Apaches starting at 13:57 were not from enemy contact. They were both due to brownout conditions during take-off and landing. My unit.
You should read Rick Atkinsons book: In the company of soldiers. He was with general Petraeus on the ground. For some reason the apaches could be seen that and they are usually invisible at night. The helicopter blades also had trouble with sand damage and cost $100000 a set.
And the residue from fired rockets apparently caused MAJOR lung issues in ground crews, according to someone I used to know who loaded them during the invasion. Aside from the PTSD, the back issues from heavy lifting, and the utter lack of support afterwards.
Damn almost like they were pawns in hideous war profiteering.@@Skorpychan
They were flying low over lit urban areas.
I mean, so many Apaches and other assets yet no thought it was important to do recon? seems like a failure in leadership considering the amount of air assets being put at risk. I wonder if anyone was reprimanded for such an oversight or if that was always part of the plan.
Completely amateur planning.
I had a professor who was a pilot on this raid and in his retelling, the decision to execute the raid ignored the fact that 9 out of the 10 "GO/NO GO" conditions were in NO GO mode, even though protocol dictated that one "NO GO" was cause for cancellation.
@@benmurray8903 Did the professor say anything about the V Corps aviation leadership seeking this mission out, to prove the Apaches could take down an armored division on their own with a big enough force? I heard this, but I don't remember the source.
Only "recon" available at that time would possibly be Sr-71 or U2. Of course, those are cross service assets and trying to get communication between different ssrvi es back then was very very hard.
@@jrr7031 There were more intel-gathering assets in the US arsenal in 2003 than two well-known strategic-level planes.
There's a documentary about this on prime. I remember watching it and one of the pilots talking about how they showed up to the refueling point and no one was there so they landed and only had handguns for defense if they were attacked 😅
Yeah. Spectacularly bad plan.and originally they were going to stay there for another full day!
Another mistake in this video that Fidayeen didn’t participate in this battle, what was involved was 2 brigades from Nebuchudnassar infantry division supported by a tank company from the 14th mechanised brigade of the Medina armoured division
Goat Guns are small arms dealers. 😃
Hello again, as an American Iraqi who grew up in Iraq during this war, I assure you Iraqis didn't have any mobile devices anywhere in the country. We didn't get access to that till 2004-2005. I'm here if you would like to reach out before publishing these incredible videos, it might be beneficial for accuracy purposes to get info from all sides
What about the Army?
@@rumrain838 not sure I understand your question?
He means whether it was just Iraqi civilians who didn't have mobile phones or also nobody in the military.
@@MrNicoJac both. To put it in perspective Iraqi army barely had any functioning military communications. Most of their tech is WW2 equipment.
@@SumerAshur
Thanks for the clarification, I hope rumrain reads it
And it would be nice if The Operations Room reached out to you
I hope you have a great day :)
2 weeks in a row Rockcrusher26 had the highlighted patreon comment
I honestly didn't realise it was such a clusterfuck but cant say i am surprised