Keith!! I wasn’t gifted any peaches this year? Where’s the family discount 🤣 Harry,,, 5 pound Harry, attacks our sweet 63 pound Jaxxy, the chickens wouldn’t have a chance! My coop is in the front yard! Tell Trish she will love it 🤣. “Harry get out of here”. Omg, I’m laughing 😂
Honestly it's great for my mental state too. I'd previously get sad when I got that peach with an earwig in it. Now, I just see that peach as a future healthy egg.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy chickens are the best in that regard, no more food waste, if it's too bad I still have to compost it, but a few years ago it had to go to the trash which was so sad.
I watched an episode from Edible Acres where he prunes his seaberries, plants the prunings and freezes the branch with the berries. After the berries have frozen solid it’s easy to harvest the individual berries.
Fellow dog trainer here! Iv worked at training kennels for years and I can definitely Tell you that you can easily train your dogs not to go for the chickens. It will actually be in Enrichment for your dogs to learn something new all you have to do is slowly introduce them to the chickens and over time take the barrier away give them praise for not going after the chickens and consider a shock collar every time they go for the chickens give them a low vibration type shock. They will learn you’d be surprised
It is said that the low vibration shock collar is the usual way. They put out the weakest chicken from the brooder out near the dog and every time the dog comes close the dog trainer makes the collar vibrate. The dogs then don't go after any chickens... I never found such a devise in my area so I haven't tried it. All my dogs were rejects. Two were known wild dog chicken thieves in the neighborhood before I met them. I'm not convinced that I would ever get the killing instinct out of these two. Having them alright around strangers and our cats means that they have come along way. The chickens are only let out when the dogs are off site.
I love watching your channel. I really appreciate the perspective you provide, as you said, a hobby permaculturist trying to be respectful of your family's journey too. Please keep doing what you're doing to normalize permaculture at the home scale. A lot of more purist permaculturists can make this too intimidating. It reminds me very much of watching "true" minimalists owning 100 things or less and not connecting or getting family on board until we saw people that more closely resembled our reality.
That's a perfect example. I know one person who is an extreme minimalist for environmental reasons, but their trash impact is quite high because they buy so many single use things that they just toss. Talk about losing the forest through the trees.
Those peaches look amazing! Spring and fall gardens are something I’m trying to remember to start on time to really extend the growing season. It looks like a good year overall at your place!
Great point about the soak time for family as well! Combining the chickens with the food forest will probably be good in the long run. You will have some difficulties but that’s to be expected when you are doing anything in an uncontrolled environment.
You made an excellent point about bringing the family into a common mindset. Also, I would suggest setting your current chicken house on a trailer frame when you are ready for a chicken tractor. Our mobile layer coop is about 8' x 12'. Our fence is electrified with a solar fence charger for the birds' protection. That would certainly teach your dogs to stay clear of the chickens. I have tested our fence myself more than once and it is not a severe shock, but certainly enough to teach predators to stay away.
We live in the woods and our chickens are free range. Our dogs guard and protect the flock from coyotes, fox, bear, etc. Our big dogs are all from livestock guardian breeds. We have two small terriers that have been trained to leave the chickens alone. They get the rodents the cats miss. Keep up the good work.
I laughed pretty hard when you scolded Harry for eyeballing the chickens. He's so tiny! I have a mini dachshund and she's been around my birds since they were chicks/ducklings. I would let her smell them and talk to her about how they were not food, they were pets too. Sometimes l think she speaks English, because she got the message right away. I told my cat the same thing and although he has never hurt a bird, he likes to hide behind bushes and surprise them. Runa (my dachshund) will run and tackle the cat when she see him do this! Pretty incredible to see a hound dog take the role of a shepherd. This isn't a criticism, btw. Just an anecdote. I know you have a bigger dog that's more of a concern.
If you added a solar electric charger to your chicken fence, the dogs would very quickly learn to avoid that area. Many other predaotrs would quickly learn to keep away from it as well . You could add another line of fence and shift the chicken area as desired.
Oooooh... I just had a fun idea... Have you seen chicken tunnels people put around their gardens? I wonder if that could be an option for you. Chicken wire curbs. Oh, maybe with gates that can be opened in certain parts that you can rope off.
We just have way too large a predator load (see the raccoon we caught and relocated). Chicken tunnels are neat, but to make them safe from predators is a lot of buried 1 inch cloth (and thus hundreds, likely thousands of dollars of materials). I'm going to try instead to make a fortified chicken pen, then plant tons of bushes they can hide under. The burrowing predators are just really bad here. I've seen so many chunnel videos and every time I do, I think, man, my hens would be dead that very day if I made that. A good example is Beginner's Garden - Journey with Jill and her tunnels. I could never do that, they would all be dead in a week
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Yeah I didn't think much past that it was a neat idea that would fit your setup well. Maybe one day if a truck carrying a ton of it crashes in front of your house.
I've been working towards a chicken friendly garden and now food forest. I have used tee post fence and have made separate areas to move them. I have found a whole new element of enjoyment with lots of room to grow vertical along the fencing. I find the chickens don't hurt established plants. They may just expose some roots. They sure can dig up soft soil in a hurry. I put larger rocks around the new plants.
Yeah, this sounds exactly like what I'll be going for long term. I'm hoping I can find some free T-posts. Everything is so expensive new (and I always love re-homing someone else's stuff). I don't think many people give away T-posts though, I've been looking for some for half a year or more.
You might think about Chunnels ( chicken tunnels). they have videos on them here on you tube. I like them Because I can direct where I want my chickens to go. There are also electric fences for chickens.
We just have way too large a predator load (see the raccoon we caught and relocated). Chicken tunnels are neat, but to make them safe from predators is a lot of buried 1 inch cloth (and thus hundreds, likely thousands of dollars of materials). I'm going to try instead to make a fortified chicken pen, then plant tons of bushes they can hide under. The burrowing predators are just really bad here. I've seen so many chunnel videos and every time I do, I think, man, my hens would be dead that very day if I made that. A good example is Beginner's Garden - Journey with Jill and her tunnels. I could never do that, they would all be dead in a week.
I absolutely love your ideas and methods for permaculture! I have a question! Can you have rated beds and still be true to the permaculture method? Thanks
Absolutely. As long as the system is regenerative, it's permaculture. Nature does many "raised beds" in natural ways... rock outcroppings, fallen logs with soil build up over years. Nothing about raised beds is inherently unsustainable, so it's very possible to run raised bed gardens with permaculture.
This is exactly where I'm at. I'm a couple years into learning about permaculture and I want to dive straight into the deep end. My wife is supportive and understanding but she's not at that point. She's a city girl. So it's a little difficult to find a happy middle ground
Yeah, I think the path forward is patience, zero expectations, and a nice slow and steady pace. I've found that the harder I pushed for things I wanted to do, the more pushback there was, because all my ideas tend to be grand and quite honestly a bit extreme. To someone who isn't "there yet", it just seems crazy. I've found that as the years go by, the progression comes. I mean, I NEVER thought I'd be able to convince them to get chickens, but here we are - and everyone enjoys them.
I never have found a middle ground. I've married a difficult person is an understatement. Narcissistic, hoarder, attention deficit disorder, was a street kid after family violence...ok lots of baggage and I'm not the best either with OCD over small details such as pictures being hung crookedly. We drive each other batty because I can't stand clutter and my husband can't find anything if he can't see it. I put up with the house being a hoarding disaster zone, but I have put my foot down that the garden isn't a junk storage facility (it's a junk yard hidden behind trees). How the garden is run has been warfare. If I'm the one doing the work, I'm not into being told what to do and how to do it. If he wants it Green Revolution Methods, he can stick to his area. This didn't work and I received full on anger for questioning his right to give orders. He just thought I was crazy with this permaculture religion. Both being stubborn, overly proud, dogmatic people ,we have had plenty of fights over gardening. We have a lot of interests in common but how to garden isn't one of them. Thank goodness UA-cam exists. Thanks Keith. The last two years the fights have actually stopped and we have had rain.
This comment of yours has really filled my head space. Particularly 'city girl'. There's a difference between regenerative agriculture (a subset of permaculture) and permaculture. What are you imagining as your ideal lifestyle? How much land can you manage? You don't need a lot for a family How much other things do you and your family want to do? Don't have to tell me the answers. Most permaculturalists live in retrofitted suburbia. The house is made more passive thermal efficient by glazing in proportion to solar direction and latitude and improved insulation. Grey water and black water are treated on site with wet gardens. Harvesting rainwater given priority. You set up off grid energy systems. You produce a lot of you food at home and your diet moves away from grains. You work as much at home as possible. You get involved with the community. You get involved with your kids education even if they continue to attend the local school. ua-cam.com/video/rBaw3DDN-tg/v-deo.html. This link is a textbook example of permaculture in suburbia. Permaculture as regenerative agriculture is exemplified by Joel Salatin at Polyface farm. Are you capable of being the business man that this lifestyle demands? The whole family has to be onboard with their own enterprises that supports the farm. The extreme example of paranoia of the new world order is exemplified by Curtis Stone (Urban Farmer). He is setting up a cool off grid place with market gardens hidden in the mountains. You have to be a pretty special guy to be accepted into this kind of rural communities. Sometimes it takes a whole generation before the newcomers are fully accepted. One day tell us what you and 'City Girl' finally have decided to do .
Oh for sure, that's the best part about them! There is no such thing as waste anymore. Weeds are eggs. Wormy pears are eggs. Blossom end rot tomatoes are eggs, etc.
I think in your context a permanent, securely fenced-in chicken yard is the way to go. You could always do a chicken tractor for "problem zones" in the food forest, or to clear a annual garden spot for a short while - and then back to the chicken yard. Of course dogs can be trained, but nothing is 100%, so I would NEVER leave a dog unsupervised in the presence of prey animals (chicken, ducks, rabbits...) without a sturdy fence in between. By the way, the name of the book is "Control unleashed" by Leslie McDevitt 🙃 The cover looks like it is supposed to be for agility dogs and it was kind of written for that, but the training games in it are intended to keep animals calm and focused in the presence of triggers that might make them want to move fast, chase things, etc, so it is just perfect for that. You could also check out the youtube channel of kikopups. Oh, and by the way, chickens can be trained, too. So maybe they can learn to "hop on a tree, and stay there until the hooman-beans comes to rescue me, when I see a dog" 🙂
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy and please don't EVER use shock collars. As a science nerd, you can check that out yourself but the scientists agree on that positive reinforcement is the most efficient and effective way to train. Also: the dog will assosiate a shock with something - but it is unpredictable with what. Shock collars are forbidden in Germany and many other European countries and for good reasons. There have been (not so few) cases, where the dog associated the shock not with his behaviour or the the prey animal, but with insects, kids, or what ever else was "in his mind" at the very second he got shocked (and that assouciation than lead to the dog being afraid of or aggressive at that thing he associated the shock with. Not a very grand idea, in my opinion. Imagine he thinks of one of your family members because he just happend to look at them or even just got a whiff of a scent of them. Shit like this DOES happen...). The only "okay" way I can think of to use electricity to train an animal is and electric fence and by that I mean a visible fence that shocks you, when you touch it. Because THAT way is the only way you can than learn to avoid the shock (which is supposeldly the aim of the "training" with shock collars. There where studies done with humans being "trained" with shock - and they basically never learned what they where shocked for. So how are "pea brained dogs" (your own words 😉) supposed to find out?? Teach a dog what to do INSTEAD of chasing a chicken. There are training plans out there where "I see a chicken" can be learned as a "command" (I prefer to call it "signal") for "I go lay down on a mat" or "I go back to the house" or what ever is practical in your context. But nobody can learn "don't. I'll prove that: DON'T think about the pink elephant. 😊
How did your fall garden work out? I find it's often tricky because if I plant early it's often too hot and the seedlings struggle in the hot/dry conditions or maybe even fail to germinate and if I plant later they don't get enough sun and warmth to mature. And yes, a lot of those plants have stayed alive into December, sometimes even early January here (suburban Toronto) without protection. In fact, my unprotected spinach is still alive.... But from November onwards they put on very minimal growth and are basically dormant due to increasing shade (longer shadows) and low growing degree days.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Kale that's alive or kale that's growing? Kale can stay in good condition under temperatures of -5C to 5C (even colder for many varieties) but I don't think it would grow at all at those temperatures? In my experience, my kale grows best when it's 15-25C in the day, and maybe a little bit at 10-15C.
It's hard to say if it's growing still, I would have to wait until I can see it again. We just got a foot of snow. I suspect it's just alive and holding on. The weather has been really mild this winter. We are normally firmly down in the -20C range, but this year we have been bouncing around 0C all winter so far.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Yeah, coldest we got this January was -11C, and coldest we got this winter was -15C just before Christmas. It's been above zero on more days than not. Looks like we'll still get some decent cold in a week though. (Ontario Zone 6)
Also a fan of West Coast seeds! :) I also agree with the community(or family) being key members of the food forest! I'm scaling mine based on expected human interest. I'm wondering... why not ducks? I wonder if the family finds them cuter? From what I can tell, a big benefit of chickens is the scratching.. but if its not working for you, I can only see ducks(Muscovy's) being a better part of the system!! The eggs are better, no scratching issues, a couple drakes will possibly ward off the dogs, the pest control is better, in the case of muscovy's they are quieter... I'm sure there is a reason, would like to know why not ducks (also, why 99% of youtube is chickens>ducks?!)
I wanted ducks over chickens myself. I realized quickly that convincing my wife to get ducks wasn't ever going to happen. We used to have a cottage that wild ducks pooped ALL OVER THE LAWN constantly. It's a different scenario (not being there for a few weeks versus them in controlled spots). I have seen places like Nine Mile Farm and their setup, and even they say the ducks are really messy. When free-ranging they are also much more devastating to new trees. The chickens here are scratching around that cranberry, but ducks would just eat the thing. I think for us, chickens are just a better option - even though I know I'd have a huge market to sell excess duck eggs, and I would personally prefer them over chicken eggs. I am not sure if the kids would eat duck eggs. I'm sure they would eventually, but kids can be picky and judgemental of food they aren't used to.
i was looking at agroforestry recently and saw that in tropics people use plantains/banans as their pioneer species for chop and drop around target plants. I couldn't find the same examples for EU/NA climate. Could you recommend a few?
It isn't as needed here because tropics soils are actually super degraded compared to here. Rain forest soils especially get so much water than most of the nutrients wash out, and therefore these plants are even more needed there. For here, we retain more of our nutrients in our soils, so it's not as huge of a deal here. However, it's always good to chop and drop the nitrogen fixers just because so much of their nitrogen comes from the air. It's a good way to offset heavy nitrogen feeding plants like most edible greens, etc. So any of the nitrogen fixers are great here. Seabuckthorn, peashrub, alder, goumi, black locust, etc. Also things that sucker really easily like sumac can also work because they just make so much biomass.
I am surprised you can grow grapes and peaches that far north. Do you ever get die back or damage from the polar vortexes that come through in the winter?
We've had a few -40C nights each year, and they are doing well so far. One of the peaches seems to be in rough shape (the one in my lower "old man walking trail" area). I'm not sure why it is giving up, but it's likely that it just hit a bad winter night. But the other ~15 peaches or so, they are all still thriving. We have some cold hardy varieties which I discuss here: ua-cam.com/video/5GrddntX4Jk/v-deo.html The grapes are even more cold hardy than the peaches. Just need to get the right varieties. Most cold hardy nurseries will offer many options. Check out Whiffletree for example.
Full on permaculture for your land likely comes just before retirement. It not so much the work load that should be less over time, it's the need to be at home all day, every day. Right now your children need your attention, they're growing up fast, need to know your guarding their back. Maybe put together a very long term plan, understanding that some things will need to go, change, especially if someone down the road puts in a subdivision or something like that.
Yeah, it's this exactly - especially in the summer time when the kids are off school. The dogs will bark to go outside and the kids let them outside unsupervised. They'd murder all my chickens for sure. A lot of what I want to do just simply isn't practical when I'm working full time. Being at home 24/7 will allow me to do so many things.
Went on vacation... Saw a chicken orchard... Went back an other way, so no time to take a pic... So... imagine a 10 by 10 meters... rudimentary, last century fencing... Waist high trees (or treelings) every 3 meter or so.... I cannot see the predator that can fit and also snatch a bird... hope there's no TM on the idea...
do you know if you can actually get the "original" or old breed jungle/wild chickens instead of the big fat meat chickens? I imagine they are a bit more self sufficient since survival wasn't bred out of them. And they'd still function as poopers and buggers. they will roost in the trees and run away, etc. did you clip your chicks?
I have Sumatras that are pretty self sufficient but they are not immune from predators. I bring them in every night for their safety. Also they and other wild types are not cold hardy. They need a well insulated coop in the winter. I’m guessing you could find hatcheries or breeders with red jungle fowl with a bit of research.
I don't know why you would want the old original breeds... 15 eggs per year where egg layers give around 320 eggs or more per year. If you are in Canada, there are no original chicken breeds ua-cam.com/video/OgmPp74suvA/v-deo.html. If you are in Asia, near a forest and you have original breeds, then keeping them alive is a responsibility that far outweighs meat and egg production because they are part of the forest system.
And speaking of vacations, we just returned from One For The Crow (on airbnb), which I highly recommend! While there, we, of course, visited Deborah and Gabe's ecobubble, which was as incredible as it was in this video: ua-cam.com/video/rQEYI8FZ7Lo/v-deo.html !!! You guys could take the kids out for a last hurrah before the school starts! :) Us, Ontario permaculturists should band together! :)
The biggest problem is when all 3 dogs are out (and the kids often just let them out when I'm outside in the garden, so I can't really control it that well). I am currently working 1 on 1 with each dog (Lucy is already amazing). The problem happens when we have 3 dogs all riling eachother up, and coming from different angles. They would all take a different chicken down, and it would be impossible to stop.
Hopefully you didn't say anything interesting after you started your chicken TV. I've seen to many chickens in my life to still be amazed by then, sorry. Being single makes it much easier to form a consensus in the family. Generally I get about 85-95% buy in on all my projects. I guess I'm a hard person to please. Voting tally 1 for and 0 against, let's do this.
Are you saying you have dogs that don't recognize you as the leader of the pack? Perhaps you should study dogs more? :) Here's a hint: COMMUNICATION! :) "NO" is the first word the dogs should learn, and it's pretty easy :) Adopt one from a local shelter, they *will* mind you.... Chicken as a source of manure... you might as well go looking into humanure.... Omnivores (us and chichen) will transmit the same diseases.... We provide more manure... with less diseases, b/c of a lot of reasons... Have you heard of recall of this and that...? E-coli? That's bad. But. If you make lettuce SOUP, you have no worries...
Keith!! I wasn’t gifted any peaches this year? Where’s the family discount 🤣 Harry,,, 5 pound Harry, attacks our sweet 63 pound Jaxxy, the chickens wouldn’t have a chance! My coop is in the front yard! Tell Trish she will love it 🤣. “Harry get out of here”. Omg, I’m laughing 😂
LOL I'll trade you a peach for that TWO POUND tomato monstrosity you grew hahaha!
That is already in the freezer, but I have more! Lol
The nice thing about having chickens is they always get a treat when you find fruit with residents living in them.
Honestly it's great for my mental state too. I'd previously get sad when I got that peach with an earwig in it. Now, I just see that peach as a future healthy egg.
or any B grade fruits in general :)
be it a bird peck or slight mold that your can cut off
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy chickens are the best in that regard, no more food waste, if it's too bad I still have to compost it, but a few years ago it had to go to the trash which was so sad.
I watched an episode from Edible Acres where he prunes his seaberries, plants the prunings and freezes the branch with the berries. After the berries have frozen solid it’s easy to harvest the individual berries.
Fellow dog trainer here! Iv worked at training kennels for years and I can definitely Tell you that you can easily train your dogs not to go for the chickens. It will actually be in Enrichment for your dogs to learn something new all you have to do is slowly introduce them to the chickens and over time take the barrier away give them praise for not going after the chickens and consider a shock collar every time they go for the chickens give them a low vibration type shock. They will learn you’d be surprised
It is said that the low vibration shock collar is the usual way. They put out the weakest chicken from the brooder out near the dog and every time the dog comes close the dog trainer makes the collar vibrate. The dogs then don't go after any chickens... I never found such a devise in my area so I haven't tried it. All my dogs were rejects. Two were known wild dog chicken thieves in the neighborhood before I met them. I'm not convinced that I would ever get the killing instinct out of these two. Having them alright around strangers and our cats means that they have come along way. The chickens are only let out when the dogs are off site.
Australian shepherds should be especially easy to train not to go after the chickens.
I love watching your channel. I really appreciate the perspective you provide, as you said, a hobby permaculturist trying to be respectful of your family's journey too. Please keep doing what you're doing to normalize permaculture at the home scale. A lot of more purist permaculturists can make this too intimidating. It reminds me very much of watching "true" minimalists owning 100 things or less and not connecting or getting family on board until we saw people that more closely resembled our reality.
That's a perfect example. I know one person who is an extreme minimalist for environmental reasons, but their trash impact is quite high because they buy so many single use things that they just toss. Talk about losing the forest through the trees.
Those peaches look amazing!
Spring and fall gardens are something I’m trying to remember to start on time to really extend the growing season. It looks like a good year overall at your place!
Chocolate cherry tomatoes are amazing! I also freeze them whole for making sauces in the winter
Great point about the soak time for family as well!
Combining the chickens with the food forest will probably be good in the long run. You will have some difficulties but that’s to be expected when you are doing anything in an uncontrolled environment.
We have two Aussies that were puppies when we got the chickens and they guard the chickens now. They’re really good with them.
Yeah, if we only had Lucy, we may try free ranging the chickens and teaching Lucy to herd them.
You made an excellent point about bringing the family into a common mindset. Also, I would suggest setting your current chicken house on a trailer frame when you are ready for a chicken tractor. Our mobile layer coop is about 8' x 12'. Our fence is electrified with a solar fence charger for the birds' protection. That would certainly teach your dogs to stay clear of the chickens. I have tested our fence myself more than once and it is not a severe shock, but certainly enough to teach predators to stay away.
We live in the woods and our chickens are free range. Our dogs guard and protect the flock from coyotes, fox, bear, etc. Our big dogs are all from livestock guardian breeds. We have two small terriers that have been trained to leave the chickens alone. They get the rodents the cats miss. Keep up the good work.
So happy to see the chickens doing well after their scare! They truly look happy and adapting! 😄
I just put in gai lan, mustard, and Korean cabbage!
Love Chicken TV, they sound very content!
I laughed pretty hard when you scolded Harry for eyeballing the chickens. He's so tiny! I have a mini dachshund and she's been around my birds since they were chicks/ducklings. I would let her smell them and talk to her about how they were not food, they were pets too. Sometimes l think she speaks English, because she got the message right away. I told my cat the same thing and although he has never hurt a bird, he likes to hide behind bushes and surprise them. Runa (my dachshund) will run and tackle the cat when she see him do this! Pretty incredible to see a hound dog take the role of a shepherd.
This isn't a criticism, btw. Just an anecdote. I know you have a bigger dog that's more of a concern.
If you added a solar electric charger to your chicken fence, the dogs would very quickly learn to avoid that area. Many other predaotrs would quickly learn to keep away from it as well . You could add another line of fence and shift the chicken area as desired.
Unfortunately not an option, we already discussed it (a few times). My wife would rather I take the fence down than electrify it.
Waooo
I like the natural view 💚
Oooooh... I just had a fun idea... Have you seen chicken tunnels people put around their gardens? I wonder if that could be an option for you. Chicken wire curbs. Oh, maybe with gates that can be opened in certain parts that you can rope off.
We just have way too large a predator load (see the raccoon we caught and relocated). Chicken tunnels are neat, but to make them safe from predators is a lot of buried 1 inch cloth (and thus hundreds, likely thousands of dollars of materials). I'm going to try instead to make a fortified chicken pen, then plant tons of bushes they can hide under. The burrowing predators are just really bad here. I've seen so many chunnel videos and every time I do, I think, man, my hens would be dead that very day if I made that. A good example is Beginner's Garden - Journey with Jill and her tunnels. I could never do that, they would all be dead in a week
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Yeah I didn't think much past that it was a neat idea that would fit your setup well. Maybe one day if a truck carrying a ton of it crashes in front of your house.
Very relaxing video. You live in a little patch close to Heaven.
Thanks :)
I think you need to plug that fence in. A small bit of electricity will help keep your chickens safer.
Not an option. My wife wouldn't let our dogs get zapped, she'd make me take down the fence instead.
I've been working towards a chicken friendly garden and now food forest. I have used tee post fence and have made separate areas to move them. I have found a whole new element of enjoyment with lots of room to grow vertical along the fencing. I find the chickens don't hurt established plants. They may just expose some roots. They sure can dig up soft soil in a hurry. I put larger rocks around the new plants.
Yeah, this sounds exactly like what I'll be going for long term. I'm hoping I can find some free T-posts. Everything is so expensive new (and I always love re-homing someone else's stuff). I don't think many people give away T-posts though, I've been looking for some for half a year or more.
You might think about Chunnels ( chicken tunnels). they have videos on them here on you tube. I like them Because I can direct where I want my chickens to go. There are also electric fences for chickens.
We just have way too large a predator load (see the raccoon we caught and relocated). Chicken tunnels are neat, but to make them safe from predators is a lot of buried 1 inch cloth (and thus hundreds, likely thousands of dollars of materials). I'm going to try instead to make a fortified chicken pen, then plant tons of bushes they can hide under. The burrowing predators are just really bad here. I've seen so many chunnel videos and every time I do, I think, man, my hens would be dead that very day if I made that. A good example is Beginner's Garden - Journey with Jill and her tunnels. I could never do that, they would all be dead in a week.
I absolutely love your ideas and methods for permaculture! I have a question! Can you have rated beds and still be true to the permaculture method? Thanks
Absolutely. As long as the system is regenerative, it's permaculture. Nature does many "raised beds" in natural ways... rock outcroppings, fallen logs with soil build up over years. Nothing about raised beds is inherently unsustainable, so it's very possible to run raised bed gardens with permaculture.
This is exactly where I'm at. I'm a couple years into learning about permaculture and I want to dive straight into the deep end. My wife is supportive and understanding but she's not at that point. She's a city girl. So it's a little difficult to find a happy middle ground
Yeah, I think the path forward is patience, zero expectations, and a nice slow and steady pace. I've found that the harder I pushed for things I wanted to do, the more pushback there was, because all my ideas tend to be grand and quite honestly a bit extreme. To someone who isn't "there yet", it just seems crazy. I've found that as the years go by, the progression comes. I mean, I NEVER thought I'd be able to convince them to get chickens, but here we are - and everyone enjoys them.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy that is definitely encouraging
I never have found a middle ground. I've married a difficult person is an understatement. Narcissistic, hoarder, attention deficit disorder, was a street kid after family violence...ok lots of baggage and I'm not the best either with OCD over small details such as pictures being hung crookedly. We drive each other batty because I can't stand clutter and my husband can't find anything if he can't see it. I put up with the house being a hoarding disaster zone, but I have put my foot down that the garden isn't a junk storage facility (it's a junk yard hidden behind trees). How the garden is run has been warfare. If I'm the one doing the work, I'm not into being told what to do and how to do it. If he wants it Green Revolution Methods, he can stick to his area. This didn't work and I received full on anger for questioning his right to give orders. He just thought I was crazy with this permaculture religion. Both being stubborn, overly proud, dogmatic people ,we have had plenty of fights over gardening. We have a lot of interests in common but how to garden isn't one of them. Thank goodness UA-cam exists. Thanks Keith. The last two years the fights have actually stopped and we have had rain.
This comment of yours has really filled my head space. Particularly 'city girl'. There's a difference between regenerative agriculture (a subset of permaculture) and permaculture. What are you imagining as your ideal lifestyle? How much land can you manage? You don't need a lot for a family How much other things do you and your family want to do? Don't have to tell me the answers. Most permaculturalists live in retrofitted suburbia. The house is made more passive thermal efficient by glazing in proportion to solar direction and latitude and improved insulation. Grey water and black water are treated on site with wet gardens. Harvesting rainwater given priority. You set up off grid energy systems. You produce a lot of you food at home and your diet moves away from grains. You work as much at home as possible. You get involved with the community. You get involved with your kids education even if they continue to attend the local school. ua-cam.com/video/rBaw3DDN-tg/v-deo.html. This link is a textbook example of permaculture in suburbia. Permaculture as regenerative agriculture is exemplified by Joel Salatin at Polyface farm. Are you capable of being the business man that this lifestyle demands? The whole family has to be onboard with their own enterprises that supports the farm. The extreme example of paranoia of the new world order is exemplified by Curtis Stone (Urban Farmer). He is setting up a cool off grid place with market gardens hidden in the mountains. You have to be a pretty special guy to be accepted into this kind of rural communities. Sometimes it takes a whole generation before the newcomers are fully accepted. One day tell us what you and 'City Girl' finally have decided to do .
Are you giving them kitchen and garden trimmings? Wormy pears would likely be hit
Oh for sure, that's the best part about them! There is no such thing as waste anymore. Weeds are eggs. Wormy pears are eggs. Blossom end rot tomatoes are eggs, etc.
Harry was the embodiment of the meme "I just want to talk to him"
LOL. 2 seconds later he'd be the embodiment of "all ur base belong to us"
I think in your context a permanent, securely fenced-in chicken yard is the way to go. You could always do a chicken tractor for "problem zones" in the food forest, or to clear a annual garden spot for a short while - and then back to the chicken yard.
Of course dogs can be trained, but nothing is 100%, so I would NEVER leave a dog unsupervised in the presence of prey animals (chicken, ducks, rabbits...) without a sturdy fence in between. By the way, the name of the book is "Control unleashed" by Leslie McDevitt 🙃 The cover looks like it is supposed to be for agility dogs and it was kind of written for that, but the training games in it are intended to keep animals calm and focused in the presence of triggers that might make them want to move fast, chase things, etc, so it is just perfect for that. You could also check out the youtube channel of kikopups.
Oh, and by the way, chickens can be trained, too. So maybe they can learn to "hop on a tree, and stay there until the hooman-beans comes to rescue me, when I see a dog" 🙂
Thanks Martina, I was hoping you'd comment on this :)
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy and please don't EVER use shock collars. As a science nerd, you can check that out yourself but the scientists agree on that positive reinforcement is the most efficient and effective way to train. Also: the dog will assosiate a shock with something - but it is unpredictable with what. Shock collars are forbidden in Germany and many other European countries and for good reasons. There have been (not so few) cases, where the dog associated the shock not with his behaviour or the the prey animal, but with insects, kids, or what ever else was "in his mind" at the very second he got shocked (and that assouciation than lead to the dog being afraid of or aggressive at that thing he associated the shock with. Not a very grand idea, in my opinion. Imagine he thinks of one of your family members because he just happend to look at them or even just got a whiff of a scent of them. Shit like this DOES happen...).
The only "okay" way I can think of to use electricity to train an animal is and electric fence and by that I mean a visible fence that shocks you, when you touch it. Because THAT way is the only way you can than learn to avoid the shock (which is supposeldly the aim of the "training" with shock collars. There where studies done with humans being "trained" with shock - and they basically never learned what they where shocked for. So how are "pea brained dogs" (your own words 😉) supposed to find out??
Teach a dog what to do INSTEAD of chasing a chicken. There are training plans out there where "I see a chicken" can be learned as a "command" (I prefer to call it "signal") for "I go lay down on a mat" or "I go back to the house" or what ever is practical in your context. But nobody can learn "don't. I'll prove that: DON'T think about the pink elephant. 😊
How did your fall garden work out? I find it's often tricky because if I plant early it's often too hot and the seedlings struggle in the hot/dry conditions or maybe even fail to germinate and if I plant later they don't get enough sun and warmth to mature. And yes, a lot of those plants have stayed alive into December, sometimes even early January here (suburban Toronto) without protection. In fact, my unprotected spinach is still alive.... But from November onwards they put on very minimal growth and are basically dormant due to increasing shade (longer shadows) and low growing degree days.
I still have some kale growing! I brushed snow off some so it can get some sun, but I fed some to the chickens last week!
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Kale that's alive or kale that's growing? Kale can stay in good condition under temperatures of -5C to 5C (even colder for many varieties) but I don't think it would grow at all at those temperatures? In my experience, my kale grows best when it's 15-25C in the day, and maybe a little bit at 10-15C.
It's hard to say if it's growing still, I would have to wait until I can see it again. We just got a foot of snow. I suspect it's just alive and holding on.
The weather has been really mild this winter. We are normally firmly down in the -20C range, but this year we have been bouncing around 0C all winter so far.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Yeah, coldest we got this January was -11C, and coldest we got this winter was -15C just before Christmas. It's been above zero on more days than not. Looks like we'll still get some decent cold in a week though. (Ontario Zone 6)
Also a fan of West Coast seeds! :)
I also agree with the community(or family) being key members of the food forest! I'm scaling mine based on expected human interest.
I'm wondering... why not ducks? I wonder if the family finds them cuter? From what I can tell, a big benefit of chickens is the scratching.. but if its not working for you, I can only see ducks(Muscovy's) being a better part of the system!! The eggs are better, no scratching issues, a couple drakes will possibly ward off the dogs, the pest control is better, in the case of muscovy's they are quieter... I'm sure there is a reason, would like to know why not ducks (also, why 99% of youtube is chickens>ducks?!)
I wanted ducks over chickens myself. I realized quickly that convincing my wife to get ducks wasn't ever going to happen. We used to have a cottage that wild ducks pooped ALL OVER THE LAWN constantly. It's a different scenario (not being there for a few weeks versus them in controlled spots). I have seen places like Nine Mile Farm and their setup, and even they say the ducks are really messy. When free-ranging they are also much more devastating to new trees. The chickens here are scratching around that cranberry, but ducks would just eat the thing.
I think for us, chickens are just a better option - even though I know I'd have a huge market to sell excess duck eggs, and I would personally prefer them over chicken eggs. I am not sure if the kids would eat duck eggs. I'm sure they would eventually, but kids can be picky and judgemental of food they aren't used to.
💛
i was looking at agroforestry recently and saw that in tropics people use plantains/banans as their pioneer species for chop and drop around target plants.
I couldn't find the same examples for EU/NA climate.
Could you recommend a few?
It isn't as needed here because tropics soils are actually super degraded compared to here. Rain forest soils especially get so much water than most of the nutrients wash out, and therefore these plants are even more needed there.
For here, we retain more of our nutrients in our soils, so it's not as huge of a deal here. However, it's always good to chop and drop the nitrogen fixers just because so much of their nitrogen comes from the air. It's a good way to offset heavy nitrogen feeding plants like most edible greens, etc.
So any of the nitrogen fixers are great here. Seabuckthorn, peashrub, alder, goumi, black locust, etc. Also things that sucker really easily like sumac can also work because they just make so much biomass.
I am surprised you can grow grapes and peaches that far north. Do you ever get die back or damage from the polar vortexes that come through in the winter?
We've had a few -40C nights each year, and they are doing well so far. One of the peaches seems to be in rough shape (the one in my lower "old man walking trail" area). I'm not sure why it is giving up, but it's likely that it just hit a bad winter night. But the other ~15 peaches or so, they are all still thriving. We have some cold hardy varieties which I discuss here: ua-cam.com/video/5GrddntX4Jk/v-deo.html
The grapes are even more cold hardy than the peaches. Just need to get the right varieties. Most cold hardy nurseries will offer many options. Check out Whiffletree for example.
Nice, do you have sand?
Our soil is a pretty even mix of sand silt clay.
Oh, and if you mean a dust bath area for the chickens, we have a sandy area under the coup, filled with a mix of sand and diatomaceous earth.
Full on permaculture for your land likely comes just before retirement. It not so much the work load that should be less over time, it's the need to be at home all day, every day.
Right now your children need your attention, they're growing up fast, need to know your guarding their back. Maybe put together a very long term plan, understanding that some things will need to go, change, especially if someone down the road puts in a subdivision or something like that.
Yeah, it's this exactly - especially in the summer time when the kids are off school. The dogs will bark to go outside and the kids let them outside unsupervised. They'd murder all my chickens for sure. A lot of what I want to do just simply isn't practical when I'm working full time. Being at home 24/7 will allow me to do so many things.
Went on vacation... Saw a chicken orchard... Went back an other way, so no time to take a pic...
So... imagine a 10 by 10 meters... rudimentary, last century fencing... Waist high trees (or treelings) every 3 meter or so.... I cannot see the predator that can fit and also snatch a bird... hope there's no TM on the idea...
do you know if you can actually get the "original" or old breed jungle/wild chickens instead of the big fat meat chickens? I imagine they are a bit more self sufficient since survival wasn't bred out of them. And they'd still function as poopers and buggers. they will roost in the trees and run away, etc.
did you clip your chicks?
I have Sumatras that are pretty self sufficient but they are not immune from predators. I bring them in every night for their safety. Also they and other wild types are not cold hardy. They need a well insulated coop in the winter. I’m guessing you could find hatcheries or breeders with red jungle fowl with a bit of research.
@@awakenacres ah, cool info. Thanks for sharing. So they don't fly up into trees to escape predators reliably enough?
I don't clip them no. Thanks for the info :)
I don't know why you would want the old original breeds... 15 eggs per year where egg layers give around 320 eggs or more per year. If you are in Canada, there are no original chicken breeds ua-cam.com/video/OgmPp74suvA/v-deo.html. If you are in Asia, near a forest and you have original breeds, then keeping them alive is a responsibility that far outweighs meat and egg production because they are part of the forest system.
@@annburge291 fertilization and bug upkeep
And speaking of vacations, we just returned from One For The Crow (on airbnb), which I highly recommend! While there, we, of course, visited Deborah and Gabe's ecobubble, which was as incredible as it was in this video: ua-cam.com/video/rQEYI8FZ7Lo/v-deo.html !!! You guys could take the kids out for a last hurrah before the school starts! :) Us, Ontario permaculturists should band together! :)
A water pistol might be a helpful non-lethal canine deterrent.
The biggest problem is when all 3 dogs are out (and the kids often just let them out when I'm outside in the garden, so I can't really control it that well). I am currently working 1 on 1 with each dog (Lucy is already amazing). The problem happens when we have 3 dogs all riling eachother up, and coming from different angles. They would all take a different chicken down, and it would be impossible to stop.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy A water pistol might be a helpful non-lethal child deterrent. ')
Hopefully you didn't say anything interesting after you started your chicken TV. I've seen to many chickens in my life to still be amazed by then, sorry.
Being single makes it much easier to form a consensus in the family. Generally I get about 85-95% buy in on all my projects. I guess I'm a hard person to please. Voting tally 1 for and 0 against, let's do this.
I've no doubt that your brain power could handle this channel 'SuspiciousObservers', it ties into your concerns about the biosphere.
I'm not aware of it. It sounds conspiracy theory, which certainly isn't my cup of tea, but I'll check it out.
Are you saying you have dogs that don't recognize you as the leader of the pack? Perhaps you should study dogs more? :)
Here's a hint: COMMUNICATION! :) "NO" is the first word the dogs should learn, and it's pretty easy :) Adopt one from a local shelter, they *will* mind you....
Chicken as a source of manure... you might as well go looking into humanure.... Omnivores (us and chichen) will transmit the same diseases.... We provide more manure... with less diseases, b/c of a lot of reasons...
Have you heard of recall of this and that...? E-coli? That's bad. But. If you make lettuce SOUP, you have no worries...