First good video, presented well. I do hold high regard on your opinion and who you are, I respectively disagree with use of the RATS vs CAT and SOF-T. Now the SAM is a piece of shit and SHOULD not be recommended. The issues pointed out I believe and have seen in teaching students to be technique based and as you mentioned failure to train. I do agree the self application of a SOF-T is more difficult than a CAT, but there is a technique to self application 16:51 that can overcome this. My opinion is based on actual patent application of both CAT and SOF- T. I have tested the RATS in training scenarios as well as live tissue labs, which my opinion and end user use is based on. But regardless carry a TQ, carry medical and take training. If you don’t, as my friend Max says , F… YOU. (YT won’t let post the actual word, commies) Thanks Louis , even though i disagree, great into great video.
Thank you for taking time to comment. We need to set up a time to discuss this. I agree with what you are saying, and of course the gear is less important than the first 3 Pillars. People should train with windless TQs, This video was mad to point out that not everyone does. If I'm in a mall, and need to toss a TQ at some random booger eater to apply to an injured person, a windless is not as intuitive as a TK4, RAT, or what's becoming a new fav ( the Slishman😉). My opinions on these are based primarily on the number of times I have been able to get multiple fingers under TQs applied under the stress of scenario training. I feel it is way better to have a RATs applied that I can't get a finger under vs a CAT I can fit my hand under. We should all train Iron sights with rifles and LPVOs can offer greater precision; but if I need to hand a rifle to someone who's never held one, I'm pretty sure results will be better if it has a red dot on it. You are one of the dudes whose opinions/ thoughts I greatly respect that disagree on this issue. Possibly I am not articulating my "why" correctly. I have seen people put bullets into magazines bc "they went in easier like that, so I thought it was right." How do we get that guy to be able to help us treat injured people in the shortest amount of time? I can toss a Glock to someone and mime out how to make it work. Is a 1911 super complicated, no but now I need to explain before trigger flick safety off if hammer is back, and what to do if hammer isn't back. At the point where they are looking to find the hammer on the magazine baseplate, I'll be wishing I had given them a Glock. Again, idk if comment section is adequate medium to express my feelings fully.
@@TacticalResponseCrew no you did an I get that point and yes a person with zero training and have never seen a tourniquet before could probably much easier use a RATS, your point is valid. But yes it has its points and I would rather someone have something than nothing. I will get ahold of you, we do need to talk about some other things also. Great video again
I love that you are realistic and not just regurgitate internet mantra about the RATS. Yes, it has downsides and it usually doesn't create 1.5" wide application but it does work. We have tested it with the help of a medical professional and RATS completely stopped circulation in a leg while being applied on quite a big thigh. After seeing that it works first hand i see the value in this TQ and i still have a couple that i use as secondary/backup TQ. Would i recommend it for a warzone? probably not but it's a good choice for civilian setting as it's light, small and cheap
While taken a TR vehicle course and under stress and duress with adrenaline running high, keeping in mind that no one was shooting back. We were forced to apply both a rats and or CATS/Soft T while trying to stay in the fight, by all means the RATS is the way to go and now it's currently mounted to my weapon system, although I do carry both CATS/ SOFT T to apply to others if need be. Great job and explanation Louis.
Well said Louis. I would bet MOST of the folks trashing the RAT and insisting TCCC is the final word have never even trained with a TQ. The "official" comparison test sent to me by one of those folks plainly said both the CAT and RAT worked and any differences were "marginal". I've recently tested a SOLO-T from Templar Medical and it is now my EDC TQ. I'd be interested to know what you think about it.
The only issue I see with the RAT would be for purposes in a military setting, at least the "future" military setting we are moving towards currently. The thin (.5) wide band that I assume gets a tad thinner when applying would require more pressure to properly restrict blood flow, meaning more tissue damage faster, possibly eating into that multi-hour window you have with CATs. The RAT reminds me of old school esmarch TQs which were used commonly in the early 20th century for surgical procedures before later being popularized by armies like the Red Army in the later Cold War. Another issue is how well does it perform when wet (Water, blood, viscera etc) and also shelf life if its made from a rubber material. For both military and civilian use we can't always say "Oh yeah right on the date of expiration we'll already have the replacement", I don't even want to think about how much expired class 8 we have wasting away and how little new equipment we are getting to replace it all. Same for a civilian setting, most people will buy it, maybe train with it for a little bit if they even get it out of the package and it will sit in a kit for years possibly. For self-application on the extremities, honestly high n' tight hasty is the way to go, applying a deliberate TQ should likely be the job of the medic or follow-on buddy aid personnel. Another TQ I've been liking more as well is the SWAT-T, while not great for self-application (is it possible???) the SWAT-T would be a great "Apply to another guy" type of TQ. Not only can you apply it to a human at the thinner parts of their body, dogs will also benefit from the SWAT-T. The issues you stated with the CAT not being fully extended is, like you said, a problem of training. Sadly giving everyone who will use a TQ a good 4 day CLS course isn't possible, such is life. Generally for either the majority of civilian situations where a hospital is within a hour away, the RAT seems like a great idea, for a military setting it'd be a good thing to stuff into an IFAK or even a CLS bag, while the medics should probably retain the CAT. The problems of tissue-damage aren't an issue at the POI, sure, but the medics need to be thinking ahead of the X, ahead of the POI. Our future engagements, if current trends are anything to go by, may be a bitter slog in which units will be under effective enemy fires suppression and deny them expedient medevac as previously enjoyed by the armies who fought in GWOT, current projections, worst case but projections still may have us sitting on PTs for 2 to over 4 hours, RATs seem like a good immediate idea but I also wonder how easy it would be to lessen the pressure on a RAT to reduce it to apply a more normal Quiklot and ETB or dress a stump and be able to reapply said pressure if bleeding reoccurs as well. Food for thought, never used the RAT but I've used the CAT, SOF-T and a few other various brands and gimmicks of TQs over the years.
TCCC certified is all about who paid money to get contracts. Haters gonna hate. "Yeah, but are you going to bet your life on something that isn't TCCC certified?" Yes, yes I am.
I tested one of the new smaller windlass TQ's in The Fight in February and figured out real quick another downside to Velcro, gloves play havoc with it. Another nail in the coffin that fit comfortably alongside fingers turning to flippers and getting the TQ stuck to itself, and that was with both hands putting it on a role player. Rats in the same shoot house went on one-handed without looking at them. Shoot-house-certified beats gubmit-certified any day.
Louis proved time and again why the RATS was the right choice in stressful situations. I tried all three at TR, and the RATS was the right answer everytime. I failed so many times with the others. Practice, practice, practice with your lifesaving gear. Thank you Louis!
Time to try a RATS. The medical training I just took used standard LE windless tourniquets. Just the stress of timing can lead to errors that cost blood. Alumnus
I carry the CAT, SOF T, and RATs on my kit. I also carry a SOF T and RATs in my pocket and in my vehicles. I’m not sure there is a perfect TQ but the three you listed as what you carry, are my go to TQs. What holster was that for the RATs? Would like something for my pocket carry with jeans and cargo pants.
I can agree with this video. I have replicated this stress based anecdotal evidence on the courses I teach. The reason the elastometric TQs are out is due to uniformity of application. In a NATO environment with the lowest common denominator (cooks), one type of TQ has to go forth. That is the windlass style. Even the lowest IQ member, should open a TQ pocket, recognize the workings and apply it correctly. In a tactical situation, I have used surgical tubing to great effect. So did the Solviets - but who is asking (pink bunk straps). Sure, we also created the ratchet style devices in the para loft; however, surgical tube was a more field expedient choice. This was 1991 folks. Pre-TCCC. All TQs have there flaws. Whichever one you choose, practice and make it wrote. Whether it be in a gun fight, predator attack or chainsaw accident - have one and know how to run it under stress.
Wow. Two somewhat differing opinions from two people I GREATLY respect - Louis and Chuck Peoples. I've sought and taken advice from both of them. I'm only adding my thoughts because of my 3 decades of clinical experience with blood flow (I'm both a Registered Vascular Technologist & Registered Diagnostic Cardiac Sonographer). DO RATs work? Yes. Do CAT 7s work? Yes. I'm quite comfortable with either one. Which one am I likely to carry two of on my body? RATs. Which one do I have stuffed in in bags, cars and desks? CAT 7s. I KNOW I can put a RATS TQ on with no visibility under stress in less than 60 seconds. For me, I know it works and I can apply it quickly. If I ever have to self-apply a TQ, it will be a RATS. If I'm responding to an incident AND I have time to grab a bag and I'm applying a TQ to someone else, it will likely be a CAT 7 (unless they have a super small appendage). But, most importantly (and this where we're venturing into 9mm vs .45 territory), CARRY WHATEVER EFFING TOURNIQUET you'll actually carry and train with no matter what type it is!!! First rule of a gunfight: bring a gun. First rule of stopping massive bleeding: bring a tourniquet. If you can carry an extra mag, you can carry an extra TQ.
Exactly right Ed, something is better than. Nothing. Absolutley zero excuse not to edc medical every single day. Which one in all reality do you think you are most likely to use in a lifetime or coke across an event that you would use. Thanks Ed
I haven't seen that failure, that piece is actually very sturdy. Id like to see what force is needed to straighten it, probably more than the plastic can take on a CAT🤷♂️
I watched a vid with Yeager and the guy who invented the rats. He is an expert on this stuff. These people talking bad about them wipe their butts with a banana peel.
Get ‘em Louis. TCCC means nothing over someone’s life. It takes tons of reps to apply the best TCCC rated devices that do work over a tk4 or a rats under stress. Both will occlude just as well as a cat. Stay on the bench certification chasers, gubernmental approval personnel, process and order followers. Leave it to the professionals that train this as a profession.
A lot of people that i respect hate on the rats. so strabge. louis spitting truth here. rats are fast and easy. you can improperly apply any tq, but rats it’s less likely imo
On tccc own testing, they show Doppler as effective on RATS so that argument for people against it to you doesn’t even hold up 😂. I still prefer a cat but have rats as well and carry both
I have nothing but SOFTW. I "hate" you and others for disproving them, but I highly value my life and others I care about. Haha. I'll transfer them to my Aid Kits and get the Rats. I have to ask what that pocket carrier is about, please.
First good video, presented well. I do hold high regard on your opinion and who you are, I respectively disagree with use of the RATS vs CAT and SOF-T. Now the SAM is a piece of shit and SHOULD not be recommended. The issues pointed out I believe and have seen in teaching students to be technique based and as you mentioned failure to train. I do agree the self application of a SOF-T is more difficult than a CAT, but there is a technique to self application 16:51 that can overcome this. My opinion is based on actual patent application of both CAT and SOF- T. I have tested the RATS in training scenarios as well as live tissue labs, which my opinion and end user use is based on. But regardless carry a TQ, carry medical and take training. If you don’t, as my friend Max says , F… YOU. (YT won’t let post the actual word, commies)
Thanks Louis , even though i disagree, great into great video.
Thank you for taking time to comment. We need to set up a time to discuss this. I agree with what you are saying, and of course the gear is less important than the first 3 Pillars. People should train with windless TQs, This video was mad to point out that not everyone does. If I'm in a mall, and need to toss a TQ at some random booger eater to apply to an injured person, a windless is not as intuitive as a TK4, RAT, or what's becoming a new fav ( the Slishman😉).
My opinions on these are based primarily on the number of times I have been able to get multiple fingers under TQs applied under the stress of scenario training. I feel it is way better to have a RATs applied that I can't get a finger under vs a CAT I can fit my hand under. We should all train Iron sights with rifles and LPVOs can offer greater precision; but if I need to hand a rifle to someone who's never held one, I'm pretty sure results will be better if it has a red dot on it. You are one of the dudes whose opinions/ thoughts I greatly respect that disagree on this issue. Possibly I am not articulating my "why" correctly. I have seen people put bullets into magazines bc "they went in easier like that, so I thought it was right." How do we get that guy to be able to help us treat injured people in the shortest amount of time?
I can toss a Glock to someone and mime out how to make it work. Is a 1911 super complicated, no but now I need to explain before trigger flick safety off if hammer is back, and what to do if hammer isn't back. At the point where they are looking to find the hammer on the magazine baseplate, I'll be wishing I had given them a Glock. Again, idk if comment section is adequate medium to express my feelings fully.
@@TacticalResponseCrew no you did an I get that point and yes a person with zero training and have never seen a tourniquet before could probably much easier use a RATS, your point is valid. But yes it has its points and I would rather someone have something than nothing. I will get ahold of you, we do need to talk about some other things also. Great video again
Louis channeled some James Yeager energy in this one telling people like it is. Way to go dude!
I love that you are realistic and not just regurgitate internet mantra about the RATS. Yes, it has downsides and it usually doesn't create 1.5" wide application but it does work.
We have tested it with the help of a medical professional and RATS completely stopped circulation in a leg while being applied on quite a big thigh.
After seeing that it works first hand i see the value in this TQ and i still have a couple that i use as secondary/backup TQ.
Would i recommend it for a warzone? probably not but it's a good choice for civilian setting as it's light, small and cheap
The James is strong with this one... well done!
While taken a TR vehicle course and under stress and duress with adrenaline running high, keeping in mind that no one was shooting back. We were forced to apply both a rats and or CATS/Soft T while trying to stay in the fight, by all means the RATS is the way to go and now it's currently mounted to my weapon system, although I do carry both CATS/ SOFT T to apply to others if need be. Great job and explanation Louis.
We used the TK4 tourniquet (elastic) when teaching TCCC as military contractors from 2007 to 2010. The US Navy put them in their Trauma Kits.
Well said Louis. I would bet MOST of the folks trashing the RAT and insisting TCCC is the final word have never even trained with a TQ. The "official" comparison test sent to me by one of those folks plainly said both the CAT and RAT worked and any differences were "marginal". I've recently tested a SOLO-T from Templar Medical and it is now my EDC TQ. I'd be interested to know what you think about it.
I love this fucking video so much
Remember the signal mirror? Lol
@@markcurtis4465 yes i added it to every kit.
Thank you for the very valuable information, much appreciated
RATS are fantastic and Jeff Kirkham is a stand up guy.
The only issue I see with the RAT would be for purposes in a military setting, at least the "future" military setting we are moving towards currently. The thin (.5) wide band that I assume gets a tad thinner when applying would require more pressure to properly restrict blood flow, meaning more tissue damage faster, possibly eating into that multi-hour window you have with CATs. The RAT reminds me of old school esmarch TQs which were used commonly in the early 20th century for surgical procedures before later being popularized by armies like the Red Army in the later Cold War. Another issue is how well does it perform when wet (Water, blood, viscera etc) and also shelf life if its made from a rubber material. For both military and civilian use we can't always say "Oh yeah right on the date of expiration we'll already have the replacement", I don't even want to think about how much expired class 8 we have wasting away and how little new equipment we are getting to replace it all. Same for a civilian setting, most people will buy it, maybe train with it for a little bit if they even get it out of the package and it will sit in a kit for years possibly.
For self-application on the extremities, honestly high n' tight hasty is the way to go, applying a deliberate TQ should likely be the job of the medic or follow-on buddy aid personnel. Another TQ I've been liking more as well is the SWAT-T, while not great for self-application (is it possible???) the SWAT-T would be a great "Apply to another guy" type of TQ. Not only can you apply it to a human at the thinner parts of their body, dogs will also benefit from the SWAT-T.
The issues you stated with the CAT not being fully extended is, like you said, a problem of training. Sadly giving everyone who will use a TQ a good 4 day CLS course isn't possible, such is life.
Generally for either the majority of civilian situations where a hospital is within a hour away, the RAT seems like a great idea, for a military setting it'd be a good thing to stuff into an IFAK or even a CLS bag, while the medics should probably retain the CAT. The problems of tissue-damage aren't an issue at the POI, sure, but the medics need to be thinking ahead of the X, ahead of the POI. Our future engagements, if current trends are anything to go by, may be a bitter slog in which units will be under effective enemy fires suppression and deny them expedient medevac as previously enjoyed by the armies who fought in GWOT, current projections, worst case but projections still may have us sitting on PTs for 2 to over 4 hours, RATs seem like a good immediate idea but I also wonder how easy it would be to lessen the pressure on a RAT to reduce it to apply a more normal Quiklot and ETB or dress a stump and be able to reapply said pressure if bleeding reoccurs as well.
Food for thought, never used the RAT but I've used the CAT, SOF-T and a few other various brands and gimmicks of TQs over the years.
Was RATs that stopped the gushing blood off the severely crushed thumb. And Rats like material when my right hand fingers were degloved in 2014
I have both CATS and RATS in my med bags but in my pocket EDC is a RATS.
TCCC certified is all about who paid money to get contracts. Haters gonna hate. "Yeah, but are you going to bet your life on something that isn't TCCC certified?" Yes, yes I am.
Well thank God the CoTCCC doesn't certify anything. They recommend things.
I tested one of the new smaller windlass TQ's in The Fight in February and figured out real quick another downside to Velcro, gloves play havoc with it. Another nail in the coffin that fit comfortably alongside fingers turning to flippers and getting the TQ stuck to itself, and that was with both hands putting it on a role player. Rats in the same shoot house went on one-handed without looking at them. Shoot-house-certified beats gubmit-certified any day.
Louis proved time and again why the RATS was the right choice in stressful situations. I tried all three at TR, and the RATS was the right answer everytime. I failed so many times with the others. Practice, practice, practice with your lifesaving gear. Thank you Louis!
Time to try a RATS. The medical training I just took used standard LE windless tourniquets. Just the stress of timing can lead to errors that cost blood. Alumnus
yes
I carry the CAT, SOF T, and RATs on my kit. I also carry a SOF T and RATs in my pocket and in my vehicles. I’m not sure there is a perfect TQ but the three you listed as what you carry, are my go to TQs.
What holster was that for the RATs? Would like something for my pocket carry with jeans and cargo pants.
NSR Tactical
@@kevinderemer396 thank you. I will look it up. I appreciate it.
Excellent video
I need to step my TQ practice.
I can agree with this video. I have replicated this stress based anecdotal evidence on the courses I teach. The reason the elastometric TQs are out is due to uniformity of application. In a NATO environment with the lowest common denominator (cooks), one type of TQ has to go forth. That is the windlass style. Even the lowest IQ member, should open a TQ pocket, recognize the workings and apply it correctly. In a tactical situation, I have used surgical tubing to great effect. So did the Solviets - but who is asking (pink bunk straps). Sure, we also created the ratchet style devices in the para loft; however, surgical tube was a more field expedient choice. This was 1991 folks. Pre-TCCC. All TQs have there flaws. Whichever one you choose, practice and make it wrote. Whether it be in a gun fight, predator attack or chainsaw accident - have one and know how to run it under stress.
Great Vid!
Great video Louis. Thank you for sharing. Tk4, Rats, and Cats are go to.
I am a fan of the rats! I have 3 small grandchildren and dog. Can you give me info on how often I should replace it , if I carry it everyday?
protect from sunlight/ heat/ water and they should be good for long time. Maybe we will do a long term test on one of my carry RATs (3+ years old)
Wow. Two somewhat differing opinions from two people I GREATLY respect - Louis and Chuck Peoples. I've sought and taken advice from both of them. I'm only adding my thoughts because of my 3 decades of clinical experience with blood flow (I'm both a Registered Vascular Technologist & Registered Diagnostic Cardiac Sonographer). DO RATs work? Yes. Do CAT 7s work? Yes. I'm quite comfortable with either one. Which one am I likely to carry two of on my body? RATs. Which one do I have stuffed in in bags, cars and desks? CAT 7s. I KNOW I can put a RATS TQ on with no visibility under stress in less than 60 seconds. For me, I know it works and I can apply it quickly. If I ever have to self-apply a TQ, it will be a RATS. If I'm responding to an incident AND I have time to grab a bag and I'm applying a TQ to someone else, it will likely be a CAT 7 (unless they have a super small appendage). But, most importantly (and this where we're venturing into 9mm vs .45 territory), CARRY WHATEVER EFFING TOURNIQUET you'll actually carry and train with no matter what type it is!!! First rule of a gunfight: bring a gun. First rule of stopping massive bleeding: bring a tourniquet. If you can carry an extra mag, you can carry an extra TQ.
this👆
Exactly right Ed, something is better than. Nothing. Absolutley zero excuse not to edc medical every single day. Which one in all reality do you think you are most likely to use in a lifetime or coke across an event that you would use. Thanks Ed
Well said.
Great Video. Made a lot of sense. Glade I didn't pass over it.
RockOn.StayFree.
I'd have a hard time trusting the SofTWide due to that bent metal hook having the possibility to straighten out.
I haven't seen that failure, that piece is actually very sturdy. Id like to see what force is needed to straighten it, probably more than the plastic can take on a CAT🤷♂️
I watched a vid with Yeager and the guy who invented the rats. He is an expert on this stuff. These people talking bad about them wipe their butts with a banana peel.
Kiss at its finest. Soviet gun stocks in Afghanistan in the 80s technology still works today
Get ‘em Louis.
TCCC means nothing over someone’s life. It takes tons of reps to apply the best TCCC rated devices that do work over a tk4 or a rats under stress. Both will occlude just as well as a cat.
Stay on the bench certification chasers, gubernmental approval personnel, process and order followers.
Leave it to the professionals that train this as a profession.
Some gospel shit right there!😂
A lot of people that i respect hate on the rats. so strabge. louis spitting truth here. rats are fast and easy. you can improperly apply any tq, but rats it’s less likely imo
TCCC Tactical Corporate Combat Cash. With enough money to back it, anything will get approved.
YEEEEES
Rant on. Good stuff brother.
On tccc own testing, they show Doppler as effective on RATS so that argument for people against it to you doesn’t even hold up 😂. I still prefer a cat but have rats as well and carry both
Thanks for the comparison, I have a few different tq's. Simpler is better, finesse does not exist under adrenaline dump.
I like rats tourniquets but what do you think of swat t's are they junk?
they have a place, definitely not junk
No pulse = no pulse.
Rules made by people that never use the stuff = government 😂
I have nothing but SOFTW. I "hate" you and others for disproving them, but I highly value my life and others I care about. Haha. I'll transfer them to my Aid Kits and get the Rats. I have to ask what that pocket carrier is about, please.
NSR Tactical
@@kevinderemer396I apologize. You were correct. Thank you.
Nerve Damage argument is lie
The RATS is by far the best TQ on the market.
Bam!
I don't care at all about tccc.... I care about what works... Rats work great... So do recons which were not tccc approved. Nice video Louis I agree!
Preach it brutha Rats is where it’s at oh and they are cheaper and easier to store & carry !! Never rule out common sense !!
You have bled out! Least common sense MFer in the world!😂 Genius. Great video
Sam tq breaks in training.