Wildlife Etiquette - Should I Stay or Should I Go (Now)
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- Опубліковано 14 січ 2024
- Super quick video today about a situation you may have found yourself in.
What would you do? Let me know in comments or take the poll below.
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I'd go to another spot... never want to be "that guy" who ruins shots for someone else
He said there isn't another day
I think you've answered your own question. You said that you would be annoyed if someone intruded in the spot you'd set up in, so you did the righting to find another spot. It's always a good idea to think how you would feel if the boot was on the other foot.
You did the right thing. There are all too many photographers and birders who exercise their "right" to be there at the expense of someone else. They give all the rest of us a bad name and spoil things for other people.
Not sure if I made up this quote but I sure as hell it a lot. "Having the right to do something does not make it the right thing to do"
I prefer to shoot alone, so if I'm the second one there, I'm going somewhere else, and hoping other photographers will have the same consideration if I am already set up. That doesn't mean I won't grumble about my bad luck.
Always have a plan B. As a nature photographer, it isn't much different, showing up on location for a specific time, to get the perfect reflection shot - only to get there to find not only is it cloudy and you'll get no rays, only diffused light, but it hasn't rained in the area you get to, in months. No reflection. No light. Conditions did not present themselves. Always have a plan B and another location to move to, when the first one doesn't work out. You said it best. He went through the same amount of effort you did, he just got there first. When you look at it from their point of view, you did the right thing. The pro thing. 😊 Thanks for sharing!!
Outdoor ethics say you did the right thing. I've had my day spoiled so many times that I won't do it to another person.
Wildlife photography has become a commodity now.
I enter into wildlife photography to have a connect with nature.
If there is a dilemma on the field like the scenario mentioned , I would just avoid and move on to another spot . Reason being I don’t want my mind to be bogged down with dilemma which effect my outcome out shoot.
However I would take a pic of the person and make him famous in our tight community, so he will get the respect he deserves. There is nothing more important in wildlife than reputation , than getting likes and comments in social media.
I have been the one who got there first, and had another photographer walk in on me. After scaring the birds, that person started setting up, so I left. So had I been in your situation, I would have left.
I agree with what you did and your rationale. We need more kindness and consideration of others in this world! Good on you!
This is an interesting topic and one that should be addressed. I’d go to another spot. However, that being said I have been in places (on vacation) where I was there early and the local photographers show up and squeeze me/others out. They didn’t put in the time to wait for the situation. They all communicate with each other, show up as the situation is just getting good and then cut off the non locals (like literally stand in front of us) as if we don’t have have the right to be there because we are “tourists” or better yet because our lens isn’t as big as theirs so we must not be real photographers. Nothing bugs me more.
You make a good point. I live in a very heavily birded state (Louisiana) with many internationally known birders/ornithologists. The alerts go out, and the locals show up by the carload if it's something "good." There's no way the guy is left alone anyway, people are going to gather, so (in this rather common situation for my area) while I may not take a photo, I may as well visit quietly, view the bird without blocking the photographer's line of sight, & then quickly leave so someone else can take my spot. However, in the precise situation, Scott describes-- waterfowl being viewed from a narrow tongue of land where a photographer has reason to expect they'll be alone & only one person can work well at a time-- I just back away and find a different spot. This community works better as a community of people who love birds, rather than as a competitive sport where some are trying to one-up others.
At times, the absolute HARDEST thing to do is to treat others as you would want to be treated. But, that doesn't change the fact that it is the RIGHT thing to do (ALWAYS!).
In my opinion, if you showed up on time, stay. I have had that happen and didn’t care at the end of it because we both were respectful. If you showed up late, go somewhere else.
First come, first serve. No question. You have a "right" to be there, but not to ruin someone else's day for selfish reasons.
I would have left. But here’s a twist on this. This past thanksgiving, I was the only photographer at a smallish pond in a city park photographing a wood duck and hooded mergansers who had flocked in with some mallards and geese. Then a woman comes with bread and purposively starts feeding the birds at the opposite side of the pond, so they all moved over. This annoyed me, and I was not too keen to get images of the ducks feeding, but I eventually moved down to where she was feeding them because all of the birds had followed her. Mind you, she was not photographing the birds- just feeding them. When I started photographing the birds that were not feeding them. She then got up with her bag of bread and got them to follow her back to the side of the pond I was at originally. At that point I gave up and left.
My vote is you did the right thing. I can't tell you how many times people have disregarded me while actively trying to get a shot by either walking in front of me or coming up to me asking what I'm looking at 😡. Those scenarios are a little different, as those people were just clueless. But in your situation, photographer to photographer, respect goes a long way.
Going somewhere else is the right thing to do.
This is the type of situation you can expect to get into whenever you plan
a photo outing in a public area. First come, first served, that’s the rule on public land.
You may have been first on the spot should you have left just a few minutes earlier, though.
I found out that very often, having to move to a new place, turns out to be a blessing in getting
unexpected nice images in that newly discovered hotspot.
You did the right thing for you treated them as would like them to treat you. I might have mumbled a few choices four letter words to myself but would have done want you did … Good Job🤗
There's was many mumblings
depending on the size of the body of water, i'd say stay if you know you can avoid causing disruptions and move further down, otherwise, i'd definitely go somewhere else if the space is really limited
I’d go to another area. You’re a true professional Scott. 😊
I would have checked the hood of the car.
If it was still warm, it meant that he had just arrived and was setting up or barely settled and as such the intrusion would have been minimal.
If cold, then he was already set-up for a while and the risk of ruining his shots would have been much greater.
Also, communication is paramount… if you have a tight community, you should be able to quickly contact that person and message him “hey dude, I see you are at X spot, do I break your shooting plan if I set up around?”
That's an interesting approach, I would definitely go for more communication if the means exist.
I think you did the right thing. Why would you do something that you know would frustrate you if the roles were reversed? I tend to avoid people in general when photographing, but that is a whole other story.
seems to be the consensus and if the situation was reversed, I'd be really upset.
This is a unique situation. Many known wildlife photo spots are frequented by crowds of photographers. Any location in a national park fits that description. Popular, well-known locations on public lands do, as well. Conowingo Dam is one example.
What makes your scenario unique, is that the location apparently has just the one location that photographers use and you recognized the car in the parking area as belonging to a photographer who was probably setup at the location you intended to use. If there's no good alternative place to setup, say, 50 yards or more from where you wanted to go, I'd go for plan B at another location. I think you did the right thing. It was certainly the courteous thing to do.
I'd go elsewhere and it has happened to me. Frankly I do the same thing for hunters. Yes I've invested in long trips where I got back goose eggs. But that's okay too. But I'm a naturalist 1st and a photographer 2nd.
Having the same issues with hunters, there is a never ending hunting season in my area, from boar, deer, pheasant. Not sure what's the best way other than avoiding those areas and go locations where hunting is not permitted like certain reserves and parks.
If it's public land them everybody as the right to be there. It's happened to me so many times, I'm taking photos in some place and hikers pass through or photographers come in silence and set up next to my spot...
It's public land and I don't have exclusive rights, so I welcome the other person with a nod and go on taking photos. Most photographers will repay kind gestures by doing the same eventually.
Life is a journey and positive experiences are made more valuable by sharing them with others. Over the years I've gotten to know several very nice nature photographers this way.
Less walls, more bridges my father always said. ✌️
First come, first serve. Go somewhere else. I've been in this situation. While disappointing, it feels like the right thing to do.
The right answer is to do unto others how you would want them to do unto you.
You did the right thing in finding another location. Karma will reward you.
Early bird gets the worm. There is also a 4:00 am…
Lol. I'm just hoping if I did that they would extend me the same courtesy
@@WildlifeInspired sadly, it appears that roughly 10% of those polled would stick it to you….
100%,you did the best thing.there is always another photo maybe even great one somewhere else.keep up the excellent videos, good on you.
Tough one but if I drove a long way I would quietly go in.
Kudos to you for doing the right thing.
You’re right Scott, you’ve got the right to be there, but put yourself as the person in the spot first. I’m sure that person would expect you to move to a different spot. I know that’s what I’d do. Walk away.
I’d go somewhere else like you did.😊
If you're getting there early enought to not spook the wildlife, they are likely to not lose shots. If you're friendly with the photographer, go set up with them. As your approaching you can see if they are activally shooting or not. Now if you're not friendly, or you can tell they are actiavlly shooting, then go somewhere else.
You definitely did the right thing. Apart from the etiquette (which would be to move on), imagine getting a perfect shot only to discover that the other person got the same shot! I would be so deflated!
I’d probably move on unless there isn’t anything anywhere near. Then it’s just an unfortunate coincidence. I’d also then setup as quietly as possible. Won’t win a friend probably but there’s nothing inherently wrong doing that.
I would consider two options. 1) if I did not know who it was or knew but was not a close friend I'd leave. 2) IF it was someone I knew well and had shared a blind with prior I would text them and see if I got an invite.
Photography is always about adjusting to changes, that is all this is and makes a better photographer. In this case, a human injected change. Other changes can be animal behavior or change in weather conditions that were not expected. That is a part of the photography challenge, to be ready to adjust.
good point!
I d go to another spot nearby ...Bad luck
Go. Anything for a quiet life
I'm a misanthrope so I try to avoid people whenever possible. The only picture I've taken of people, other than the times someone asked me to take a picture, was when the person was so far away you can just see that there's a person there but nothing else about them. When it comes to encountering someone doing nature photography, I avoid once I see them. I almost feel that people out in the woods are like people in a public restroom. You can acknowledge each other's existence but don't sit on their lap.
I have a situation coming up in February where I already know I'm going to a popular photography site that has limited space and I'm going to have to rub elbows and I'm not looking forward to it. Bah humbug!
I would take the opportunity to explore for another area that I haven’t seen before
I’d go somewhere else. I’ve had others come on through and not think a of it and ruined shots. It’s very frustrating! They only care about getting their own shots!
If I know the subjects will be skittish (like waterfowl, other birds, deer, pronghorn) and me tromping around will ruin the shoot, well, move along. Should have gotten up even earlier! On the other hand, if the subjects are not likely to be spooked or disturbed by me (moose, bison, bears), I might make my way down as quietly as possible without disturbing the scene.
lol Dude I got out of my car once on a wildlife drive, to shoot a bald eagle. After taking a couple of pictures I started to move a little closer and it saw me and flew off. As I'm gettin back in my car I hear people yelling and look over, and a short distance away there were about 15 photographers I'd just pissed off. Then I had to drive by them. A year later I recognize one of the folks is a big pro photographer and youtuber and that was a class he was teaching. Oops. I pay attention now and try to avoid other photographers when I know they're around ...and I look to see if there are others around and move on if I see someone.
OUCH
If you’re teaching a class don’t rely on public land that’s their mistake not yours.
And you taught the class a lesson..."shit happens, get over it". There's always another shot...it happens to me more often than I would like. I just smile and say "well that was unfortunate ".
Respect for each other’s space is what shows the class. I had few cases when photographers would try to set up right in front of my lens, walk in front few times while am taking the shot. Needless to say I won’t follow those photographers work 😀
Good for you. The early bird gets the worm in this case. If you would have came in and setup you more than likely would have disturbed the other photographer and ruined the shoot for both of you. It’s a bummer with all the prep work but you did the right thing by moving on.
I personally would have just skipped it, and went elsewhere, and yes, I'd be totally bummed, and talking a lot of garbage under my breath :) lol But here's the thing.... in skipping the spot, it would only be "half" out of good etiquette and respect for the other photographer, but also because > Lets just say that person just happened to be a big fan of yours, and they were waving you over with open arms, well that's really nice and all, but I personally just don't want to have 'anybody near me'... not even a photography friend, when I'm trying to get into the zone, and do my own thing. I just can't have any distractions, even friends or acquaintances.
I used to be the same way with fishing. I'd talk with a lot of folks at length, at the dock, or moving between spots, and maybe even give them some juicy info, hotspots, etc. But I almost always fished by myself, and avoided other fishermen at all costs, while actually fishing. Just my special combination of ADHD and OCD I guess :)
Go to another spot!
In my opinion you did exactly the right thing. There'll be another day. And if you accidentally dropped your equipment bag you'd ruin the day for both of you. Gopod decision.
If entering the area would disturb the wildlife and risk the other photographer not getting the shot, then I would go elsewhere. Similarly, if there are too many people crowded into an area, I would go elsewhere.
As tough as it may be I would leave and get up earlier next time.
Relocate - I run into this while fly fishing often. Many fishermen will wade right next to you - especially if they see you catch a fish!!
I think theres definitely some overlap in genre. would be curious if you have a good "spot" do you tell others?
Going somewhere else is the right thing to do. Moral and ethical are too strong of words for the situation, I think etiquette is the one that hits the nail in the head. Unfortunately there’s a lot of folks out there that obviously don’t think etiquette is a real thing. I’d be just as irritated as you but that’s what comes with shooting on public land. And since covid, everyone has picked up a camera and become a professional in their own mind and many have endless amounts of time… it’s extremely difficult to find a spot that others don’t know about. Early bird gets the worm, I guess.
I wouldn’t have a problem if they were quiet and the spot has plenty of room.
"Be adaptive." - Leadership on the Line. I will say, I always try to have a Plan B. Especially if time and planning have been invested.
You did the right thing although if you had stayed, that technically wouldn't be 'wrong' either. Photographers are very selfish and are always out for themselves, so it's refreshing to hear that you really weighed your choice and didn't make the selfish decision. My question would be, if you knew the photog that was already there? If it were someone you knew, they'd probably be more receptive to you joining maybe
I think I knew him and hes actually a friend, but hes like me and I wanted to allow him solo time. I think he likes his time alone with nature. That said he is someone I would shoot with if it were planned.
Interesting scenario. I enjoy meeting other photographers in the field and sharing the shooting experience, but it is frustrating to have an opportunity lost due to a lack of consideration from other people. If I was there first and in place ahead of time I would probably quietly gesture for the second shooter to quietly join me in sharing the space and opportunity. If I'm second on site I would probably quietly approach the spot until we could make eye contact and I would gesture a request to join them. If they seem reluctant I would silently wish them well and move on to another place. Shooting nature, mostly solitude and maybe occasionally a little comradery. Shooting live music, never solitude and hopefully comradery shooting with considerate shooters.
Well spotted, non-verbal communication can work.
Get up earlier and drive faster! As well as photography, I fish for Salmon on a Scottish river. If I plan to fish a pool at dawn, midday or evening and find someone else there I walk away to the next one. They want to enjoy the experience undisturbed and so do I. So photography is no different. You always need a plan B and C for your own peace of mind.
I’d carry on up the road!😁
I would have done the same if the area couldn't accommodate more than one photographer. But I wonder why photographers, in general, don't really get along with each other in the field? Could it be because photography has become more commoditized and competition to shoot something unique is fierce ?
I was taking pictures of wrens dust bathing on a path one time when two ladies walking just walked past me chatting as they went and scared them off. Like you, I acknowledged that they had as much right as I to be there as I and I didn't own an inch of the area, but frustrating nonetheless. I've seen these limited spots like this and I would have left. No sense ruining the morning for both of you. It's tough though as great spots are becoming more limited.
I have to agree with you, nothing worse than getting all setup and someone comes, and you end up with a bad day of shooting. Even if it was just a bad day for birds you can always feel like if that person had not showed up, I might have gotten some great shots.
Respectful of the photographer there would be the right choice. Albeit you had planned it etc, but that is photography, you have to think on your feet. The only issue i have with the scenario, was you were tired, and got in a car to drive an hour .. mmm..
I Set Up in the spot I went for and do what I do without disturbing Them , I’d do that knowing I’m a professional photographer and so are they. We should be on the same page . 🍻
A no brainer. I would have gone to another location.
Apologies and set up near him..as you said the birds will come back
One of my favorite spots always has lots of foot traffic. Most folks are respectful of your immediate space and lines of sight but it can still be somewhat crowded. You just gotta adapt.
I feel like it depends on the size of the “spot”, if you can go in and set up quietly and not be on top of the other photographer i say why not. If you KNOW it is a spot only big enough for one person to be set up then find alternate spot. I may have taken the quick walk to see if he was in the actual spot I wanted to be. If Yes then you need to decide whether you would interrupt him by setting up nearby. if no, then you’re all set. Again, depending on how far the walk or hike is, I would’ve gone without any gear just to scope out the location and not gone fully into it but just far enough to see what’s going on.
I would have been swearing to myself, not disturbed him, and found another location.
Definitely will go to a different spot !!.But next day I'll spend the nite there !!😂
Never liked to shoot around anybody!!.
If you've gone to such an effort, I'd just ask them quietly if it's okay, they might enjoy your company. I shoot in a public place all the time, I don't mind photographers coming to the same spot if all they do is take photographs, but talking and distracting during golden hour really really annoys me. One hour is not very long!
Hate to say this, but in the world we live in today so few people care about anything by ME ME ME. I think you did the correct thing. It was professional, courteous and respectful. Now, if the shoe were on the other foot, someone else probably would have done just the opposite.
I would go somewhere else without question.
You said there were a couple of spots there, so why not stay. You could be extra quiet, so minimum disturbance. Given the time of day the ducks may not leave or come back in time for a shoot.
After you have travelled all that way you should be able to share the area. So yes I would stay and set up quietly. Then after the shoot you can either talk to each other or leave.
I have had this happen. We both set up, took the photos, and then we each left. We did not talk, did what we set out to do and moved on. It is only if the other person started talking, then I would be very unhappy.
If you know that person….would they extend you the same courtesy?
I would consider that in my stay or leave decision
I think it depends on the location. If I knew it was tight, I would find somewhere else. If not, I would go in. I certainly pay attention to where I am when there are other photographers. I like to go on the road less traveled, however, if there is a known event happening, I assume there will be other photographers and I will still plan to go. I cull similar to your technique. I like to go through and cull out-of-focus and various other photos that do not make the cut due to composition etc. I then group like subjects and then will cull those in a second pass as I rate them. I am a photo hoarder too, especially when I have a new species. I watched a video of a wave photographer who puts her photo memory cards away and does not download or cull them for 4-6 weeks after photographing them to get some distance between her and the photos. An interesting approach. I am too excited and want to see if I got "THE" shot. Print-worthy and contest-worthy are two different concepts.
I'd go somewhere else. I think it's the decent thing to do.
It is a public place. Who ever is the first owns the right to be alone. This is not a written rule but is ethic. I must be following the plan B. Go somewhereelse without disturbing him.
I would do the same as you, I'd look else where. Disturbing wildlife and someone's shot just because you've a right to be there is pretty mean. Personally part of the reason I go out birding or taking photo's of wildlife is so that I don't have to 'people' unless I've specifically arranged to be with others.
I’d do what I came to do
good choice - 'do unto others...'
Absolutely!
I don't see a poll, but I would move on. That guy was up early and planned as well.
If there was any chance of ruining their shoot... leave, enough said. Full stop.
If only one spot and I can’t squeeze in, I will leave. First come first serve. But if the spot can accommodate two or three people, I would quietly and slowly approach the guy and politely ask if I can squeeze in.
Go to another spot. I don’t want to ruin someone’s else’s shot and I would hope for the same respect when I get to a spot first. I also don’t really want to have a conversation with strangers 🤣🤣
If this other person was already set up, I'd go somewhere else. If this was a person I knew well, however, and if it was still OK to do so, I'd ask if I could set up next to him/her. This has happened to me several times, and I always move to another location out of courtesy. I also make a mental note to set the alarm a bit earlier. : ) I've been on the receiving end as well. It's been 50/50 of a person intruding into an area that I have already "claimed." Indeed, unsaid rules in wildlife but everyone I think knows (should know) the right thing to do.
I experienced this many times fly fishing. The stream is small and first come is the rule. Walk around to another spot or drive to another location. I try not to go out. on the weekends.
After smashing my steering wheel and screaming silently into the air for a few minutes I would drive away.
That happened
I get your perspective, I also like to be "in the moment" and alone when photographing. Especially when I've headed to a remote location, early in the morning, and am prepared.
I've had to get used to there being constant interruptions when photographing now though. Ever since COVID, it feels like my entire city and surrounding populace have "rediscovered the power of nature". Every park, pond, hike, etc, is filled with people now. Our parks service has actually started shutting down areas that have been open to the public for over a hundred years due to the ridiculous influx of tourists and visitors.
I get advice from local older photographers who have more experience than I do, they'll tell me to drive hours out of the city, go to a specific place that is secluded and unknown. I show up early, pitch black skies, darkness, I'm on the side of a road parking in a ditch, and what do I see? A series of cars parked. Not one or two, but 10 or more.
The world is becoming small, in a time when All Trails can be downloaded to any phone and Reddit is filled with all the local best places due to the mountains beside my home becoming a tourist destination, it's inevitable. I'm seriously considering moving to a remote valley in the interior of British Columbia so I can properly get away from the hubbub that has become my city's local parks and forests.
I feel that pain. I do and I would dread those areas. Social media and geocaching are awful for many.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's awful. I don't want to consider other humans as a terrible plight. It's an adaptation to be sure.
I don't have any more right to these places than they do, as annoying as it is while I'm trying to find wildlife in solitude.
All the same, I wish you better luck in future, sorry to hear about your disappointing experience trying to get out for the morning light. I applaud you for being the bigger person and letting that other photographer have their peace and quiet in the wilderness, you're a good person in my eyes.
I would have go with the outmost care not to disturb the photographer or the birds around and I would have chose a different spot, except if I knew that there was only one spot and in this case was taken... I value my time and effort as they do... Maybe a bit cynical...
That sucks.
Each situation/location is different but, if its just as you described, Id probably go somewhere else.. but maybe not if its common for multiple photographers to line up along that small spot.
People thinking they have a spot on public lands is the bigger issue in itself which sadly has become VERY common. If you want to have “your spot” use private lands or lease property otherwise it’s the risk one takes and it’s everyone’s spot.
Stay / Go there is no right or wrong.
I go somewhere else also. Very disappointing but you have to move on.
There’s an old saying: “If your premise is flawed, so too will be your conclusions.” In this scenario, it is assumed that you would be ruining the other person’s shoot by putting off all the ducks, but this is false. I mean if you were going to put off all the ducks by going in and setting up, then that would have ruined the shoot even if it were just you, so that makes no sense. Sure, you would have maybe caused the ducks to temporarily swim away a bit (as they likely did when he arrived), but they’ll come back in a few minutes once you’re settled. So why not simply approach him slowly and quietly explain that you too got up super early and drove an hour to get there, and would it be ok with him if you set up nearby?
I'm guessing you're not a wildlife photographer photographing wild ducks.
@@WildlifeInspired I do it very frequently.
It’s happened to me, I went somewhere else
I would leave and go elsewhere. If the photo subject was very tolerant I would quietly work my way into location but only if that wouldn't disturb the subject. In the case as you described it I would absolutely leave. To me the experience is about more than getting the shot. In some areas more people are acceptable but not where you have described. Too many people have a "get the shot at all costs attitude both human and the subject animal. When I go to photograph alone I want to be alone so another person is intrusive. Yes, I don't own the location but to me I do morally or in you example the 1st person did. I would do what I would hope the other person would do for me if the situation was reversed.
I would have left too. Like you said, he got there first and you risk upsetting him/her by creating a disturbance. There are a lot of things in life we have the right to do but we don’t because we share this planet with other people and we have to take them in consideration. BTW, i didn’t see your poll.
This is a hard one for sure…. If you both arrive early to setup and wait for the birds to arrive or return, then both should be ok. I would probably go to a different location in the same area. Yes very frustrated, but you would still get your Nature Time.
It’s like being at the beach and an owner brings his dog that runs out to chase the birds away, as you’re clearly taking photos of wading bird. As you stated it’s public, even though you were clearing taking photos.