I couldn't have asked for a better response. The three I mentioned in my question are still the ones I use most often. Excellent point on whether the breakage is due to fraying or tension. Turns out the issue was primarily tension and not the tube. Thanks again for these videos, no one else goes into the depth that you do.
I have put about 10K of flies through my Loon Ergo Bobbin in last 12- 18 months. Only standard threads but still going strong... Have a good Christmas lads. Hoping to see Johnny tdo some tying in the new year (hint hint)??
First, thanks for the great content, second my question is about using UV fly finish. Do you use UV finish and if so why is there a thick and a thin product and what are the uses. I still use head cement but have been tempted to use the new UV cement. Any advice would be appreciated.
Hate, hate, hate it when people send you hate mail. There's always that Brammer kid they can send that to. (Love your stuff Gunnar, you know that.) Thanks for the insight. I guess I need to spring for one of those high-dollar Rite-style bobbins. What were those three colors of threads you use, burgundy for your drys, white for whatever and what was the other color? One more thing, what marker works best of GSP cause the factory dye doesn't seem to work very good.
Johnny, I kinda get a kick out of the haters, pathetic things they are. black, olive and burgandy, which is what I use on my nymphs. Any sharpie work like a champ. KG
Some people use copper wire for weight instead of lead. It doesn't seem like you do that on flies, but I'll ask you anyhow. What type (steel, ceramic, ruby) do you feel is better for wire? Mike Krall
I use standard steel bobbins for all wires, could never bring myself to use a ruby or ceramic bobbin for wire. Way back I used to tie my PTs with all wire and I used bobbins for that but really dont do it much anymore. Thanks for watching, Kelly
There is one thing that is fairly fundamental, and Kelly's never drilled properly down into this, despite talking about it all the time. Charlie Craven has a 2017 article all about thread diameters and types on Fly Fisherman. I recommended it. When Kelly talks about 'one hundred' denier, a commonly used designation of gel spun polyethylene threads (different from the older 70, 140, etc designations that were common in nylon or waxed silk threads). I'd say a lot of people get lost. There are the GSP's now that go way down to low numbers in Denier. And on the other side of the scale bar, they talk about 8/0 or 10/0 thread (the Roman Moser that Kelly uses I think was an early GSP product?). But it tends to get ordered using the other scale, and Charlie in his 2017 article tried to unravel 'the whole thread mystery'. I always liked Danville which is a 6/0 waxed thread. I just liked it, because it seemed to go on for ever, they pack a mile of thread into a spool. It's probably thick in diameter by today's standards in reaching for the 8/0 and 10/0 diameters (really, until not so long ago something like 10/0 would have been rare to get). A lot of use tied the majority of our small hook size 12, 10 wet's etc using our spools of 140 Denier UTC or UNI (I know that one company used Denier rating and the other used the slash zero scale instead).
By the way, I'm into split threads now, so that's thrown a whole other spanner in the works as far as I'm concerned. I'm wondering how small in diameter I can go using this GSP stuff, before it just becomes stupid trying to split a thread in two, to make CDC dries or emergers. I'll report back on that at some time, if I manage to figure it out. Definitely though, using the GSP Roman Moser 'Power Silk' Kelly is using thread in ways it was never designed to be used originally. You try to pull some of that stuff using old nylon or waxed silk thread types, and you'd find yourself falling backwards on the fly tying chair very fast. Or punching yourself in the mouth. You see, in the world that some of the rest of us occupy, the whole idea is 'NOT' to exert tension on the materials. If you're trying to design flies that are to become 'slippery' from a hydraulic design point of view. You want to do the exact opposite to what Kelly is describing. You want you're first couple of turns to be very slack, and then you 'build' the tighter turns on top of the loose ones down at the bottom. So everything that one would learn about wet fly fly tying, is sort of turned on it's head when you're working on spinning deer hair, or making the 'collars' wings made of deer hair. So that GSP Roman Moser thread material, whatever about comparison of diameters of nylon or GSP, the GSP is actually getting 'deployed' very differently on the fly tying bench, than one would use the old UTC, UNI and Danville silk threads for small or large wet flies.
I think it would be worth actually doing the video using the other bobbin, the one that has the nylon on it (maybe some kind of an old style 'flat' thread that Charlie Craven explains in his article). And using a material like 'buck tail' hair fibres. Something like that, in order to make a classic streamer pattern. Just to explain, that in those situations when dealing with a natural hair material, totally different from deer hair which is hollow inside), that using buck tail to get it stream lined and slippery in profile so it doesn't stand out in all directions - one has to approach it the exact opposite way around from a thread handling point of view. If nothing else though, Kelly's lesson on the spun deer hair recently made me want to go out and buy some more GSP, with some indestructible bobbin holders to use with it. Heavy duty. I understand now, why my new spanking 'pedestal' tying vice is not the answer to everything. I like it for wet fly dressing. But for the deer hair spinning, you'd probably want something that is attached firmly to a table.
When you start breaking the ceramic bobbin holders, that are advertised as being things that you will some day pass on to your grand children. Then you know that you are using tying thread in a way that is different from how fly tying started out. The grand children will have to buy their own bobbins, looks like it.
Brian is right on here. I often use the term denier like I do with GSP, which are measured in strands , which I find really to be the best. Less strands is smaller, that makes life really easy. 50 is half the strands of 100. Which is kind of what denier is, denier is actually a weight of bulk thread and as such a higher number denier would indicate weight so a 140 denier would likely be twice the strand/weight of say a 70. To add to that confustion the Roman Mouser thread I use (which is a GSP) is deisignated on the 5/0 10/0 scale which is also how the Semper fly stuff is done. I grew up before the Uni threads came out and we had 3/0 6/0 and A or plus. Then we went to several designations than none of made sense compared to the 3/0 6/0 etc. But like I said, Brian is right here and Charlies artical was really good and should be read . Kelly
@@kellygalloup6073 Thanks for having the candor to confirm and clarify. Too many others would have never even read his input much less provided feedback. You got my business
Merry Christmas Kelly. I use a Rite but still use bobbins I got when I was a kid.
Merry Christmas Barn
I really like your bobbin holder!👍 Thanks for sharing this and your knowledge it helps a Lot! Happy Holidays!
I couldn't have asked for a better response. The three I mentioned in my question are still the ones I use most often. Excellent point on whether the breakage is due to fraying or tension. Turns out the issue was primarily tension and not the tube. Thanks again for these videos, no one else goes into the depth that you do.
I agree.
My first night tying I became a master at bobbin threading. It was me, not the tool.
I have put about 10K of flies through my Loon Ergo Bobbin in last 12- 18 months. Only standard threads but still going strong...
Have a good Christmas lads. Hoping to see Johnny tdo some tying in the new year (hint hint)??
I second that. Let's get Jonny some screen time, UA-cam is full of wannabes and not enough living legend's
First, thanks for the great content, second my question is about using UV fly finish. Do you use UV finish and if so why is there a thick and a thin product and what are the uses. I still use head cement but have been tempted to use the new UV cement. Any advice would be appreciated.
What bobbin does Johnny like?
The people want and have a right to know!
Hate, hate, hate it when people send you hate mail. There's always that Brammer kid they can send that to. (Love your stuff Gunnar, you know that.) Thanks for the insight. I guess I need to spring for one of those high-dollar Rite-style bobbins. What were those three colors of threads you use, burgundy for your drys, white for whatever and what was the other color? One more thing, what marker works best of GSP cause the factory dye doesn't seem to work very good.
Johnny, I kinda get a kick out of the haters, pathetic things they are. black, olive and burgandy, which is what I use on my nymphs. Any sharpie work like a champ. KG
Received the Loon as a gift. I do not think they like me. Merry Christmas.
Thanks for sharing
Some people use copper wire for weight instead of lead. It doesn't seem like you do that on flies, but I'll ask you anyhow. What type (steel, ceramic, ruby) do you feel is better for wire?
Mike Krall
I use standard steel bobbins for all wires, could never bring myself to use a ruby or ceramic bobbin for wire. Way back I used to tie my PTs with all wire and I used bobbins for that but really dont do it much anymore. Thanks for watching, Kelly
Thanks for the point of view, Kelly.
And on "Thanks for watching." ... thanks for showing.
Mike
for me it's simple. Rite's for my streamers and saltwater and tiemco or Renzetti for all others.
Hey just for shits & giggles, I'd like to see you & Johnny tying side by side and arguing about it.
Barney, I’m not sure Kelly could handle that emotionally...that’s why I live in the shadows - Johnnie
@@TheSlideinn Then we need a “Johnnie’s take on Bobbins” or at least a Johnnie’s Rebuttal Channel
If I could have only 1 bobbin I would pick my rite.
There is one thing that is fairly fundamental, and Kelly's never drilled properly down into this, despite talking about it all the time. Charlie Craven has a 2017 article all about thread diameters and types on Fly Fisherman. I recommended it. When Kelly talks about 'one hundred' denier, a commonly used designation of gel spun polyethylene threads (different from the older 70, 140, etc designations that were common in nylon or waxed silk threads). I'd say a lot of people get lost. There are the GSP's now that go way down to low numbers in Denier. And on the other side of the scale bar, they talk about 8/0 or 10/0 thread (the Roman Moser that Kelly uses I think was an early GSP product?). But it tends to get ordered using the other scale, and Charlie in his 2017 article tried to unravel 'the whole thread mystery'. I always liked Danville which is a 6/0 waxed thread. I just liked it, because it seemed to go on for ever, they pack a mile of thread into a spool. It's probably thick in diameter by today's standards in reaching for the 8/0 and 10/0 diameters (really, until not so long ago something like 10/0 would have been rare to get). A lot of use tied the majority of our small hook size 12, 10 wet's etc using our spools of 140 Denier UTC or UNI (I know that one company used Denier rating and the other used the slash zero scale instead).
By the way, I'm into split threads now, so that's thrown a whole other spanner in the works as far as I'm concerned. I'm wondering how small in diameter I can go using this GSP stuff, before it just becomes stupid trying to split a thread in two, to make CDC dries or emergers. I'll report back on that at some time, if I manage to figure it out. Definitely though, using the GSP Roman Moser 'Power Silk' Kelly is using thread in ways it was never designed to be used originally. You try to pull some of that stuff using old nylon or waxed silk thread types, and you'd find yourself falling backwards on the fly tying chair very fast. Or punching yourself in the mouth. You see, in the world that some of the rest of us occupy, the whole idea is 'NOT' to exert tension on the materials. If you're trying to design flies that are to become 'slippery' from a hydraulic design point of view. You want to do the exact opposite to what Kelly is describing. You want you're first couple of turns to be very slack, and then you 'build' the tighter turns on top of the loose ones down at the bottom. So everything that one would learn about wet fly fly tying, is sort of turned on it's head when you're working on spinning deer hair, or making the 'collars' wings made of deer hair. So that GSP Roman Moser thread material, whatever about comparison of diameters of nylon or GSP, the GSP is actually getting 'deployed' very differently on the fly tying bench, than one would use the old UTC, UNI and Danville silk threads for small or large wet flies.
I think it would be worth actually doing the video using the other bobbin, the one that has the nylon on it (maybe some kind of an old style 'flat' thread that Charlie Craven explains in his article). And using a material like 'buck tail' hair fibres. Something like that, in order to make a classic streamer pattern. Just to explain, that in those situations when dealing with a natural hair material, totally different from deer hair which is hollow inside), that using buck tail to get it stream lined and slippery in profile so it doesn't stand out in all directions - one has to approach it the exact opposite way around from a thread handling point of view. If nothing else though, Kelly's lesson on the spun deer hair recently made me want to go out and buy some more GSP, with some indestructible bobbin holders to use with it. Heavy duty. I understand now, why my new spanking 'pedestal' tying vice is not the answer to everything. I like it for wet fly dressing. But for the deer hair spinning, you'd probably want something that is attached firmly to a table.
When you start breaking the ceramic bobbin holders, that are advertised as being things that you will some day pass on to your grand children. Then you know that you are using tying thread in a way that is different from how fly tying started out. The grand children will have to buy their own bobbins, looks like it.
Brian is right on here. I often use the term denier like I do with GSP, which are measured in strands , which I find really to be the best. Less strands is smaller, that makes life really easy. 50 is half the strands of 100. Which is kind of what denier is, denier is actually a weight of bulk thread and as such a higher number denier would indicate weight so a 140 denier would likely be twice the strand/weight of say a 70. To add to that confustion the Roman Mouser thread I use (which is a GSP) is deisignated on the 5/0 10/0 scale which is also how the Semper fly stuff is done. I grew up before the Uni threads came out and we had 3/0 6/0 and A or plus. Then we went to several designations than none of made sense compared to the 3/0 6/0 etc. But like I said, Brian is right here and Charlies artical was really good and should be read . Kelly
@@kellygalloup6073 Thanks for having the candor to confirm and clarify. Too many others would have never even read his input much less provided feedback. You got my business
That Loon bobbin is just a yellow paperweight.