Great video! Just to add something on the prussian pipe back blades. They started upgrading their cavalry swords model 1852 with a new pipe back blade in 1879 and later switched to the new 1889 model in the early 1890's. Prussian bayonets started using pipe back blades in 1860 and used them until the first world war. With kind regards, Vincent.
Not even that, it's just that France in the 1860-70 was not prepared for war on the continent. Meanwhile Prussia had been invading it's Germanic neighbors for quite some time and got the help of the entire German federation whereas France did not receive the help it expected (from Russia, Austria and maybe the UK). What he says is true, but he is speaking of the early XIXth century, by 1870 the situation had drastically changed. Napoleon the third was not so much an incompetent general as Moltke was an excellent one.
I've done some tatami cutting with T-back blades recently and found that the T shaped spine doesn't cause the issue with cutting that people seem to assume.
The US M1833 Dragoon Sword (for troopers) was a copy of the P1821 LC Officer's Sword, but with a brass guard instead of a steel guard. It was a very short-lived model as it was replaced in 1840 with a somewhat Germanic interpretation of the French Mle.1822 LC Sabre.
i have a 1889 patern german cavalry saber , with that type of blade , and i really like it , and , at the end of 19th , having a trust capable stiff blade was nice ( and the handle on this is sooooo great )
It is strange to notice that «pipe back » straight razors with a real steel or brass pipe in the back (it seems to be invented in this same period) are called frameback blades.
12:00 -- I think this is the single coolest part of this video. I'm also struck with the impression that this sword is a bit like a mirror image of a surgeon's knife.
What differentiates a pipe back on a single edged blade with a ridge in the centre of a double edged blade? Do you think the issues are similar? There are arming swords (like one that's been on your wall) with pronounced central ridges (not to mention bronze swords), I was surprised you didn't mention them though I understand the video is already 20 mins.
I'm interested in military swords a lot and I'd never heard of pipe back swords. I always learn something from your videos. Could you do a video on artillery shortswords as sidearms. Also when was the bastard sword/long swords/arming sword last issued, other than basket hilts. I know Katanas where used in the 40's but I'm curious when us white Euro folk or other folks used our traditional swords. Great video as usual, keep it up and keep your swords nice and sharp! :)
Did not mention in my opinion the best feature of a pipe back - that being that when combined with a proper scabbard that grips the pipe your sword is remains sharp. Steel scabbard of the period tend to ruin your edge when riding on a horse, when the scabbard grips the tube and holds the edge away from the scabbard this is not a problem. Sword tend to spend a lot more time riding the the scabbard than being drawn in anger. It is nice for you edge to still be keen when you need it.
When I first heard of "pipe back" I thought they were hollow, I didn't realise that it's meant in terms of the piping on a uniform or piped icing etc, the name just refers to something with a cylindrical shape.
Mechanically for a thrusting use, would the extra rigidity of a pipeback be meaningful, or were these weapons explicitly for cutting with little thought in the thrust? Also, how were these made? Was a second piece of metal attached to the blade as it was being assembled, or was the piece originally that thick and ground down such that only the back retained the original thickness?
They were roll forged with some touch up hammering and straightening done manually then ground by hand on special grinding wheels some of them six feet in diameter or more and finally polished on felt wheels charged with different grit grades each until the specified finish was achieved.
2 questions - is there any difference between "pipe-backed" and quill-backed" blades, and, do you have any suggestions as to why Germany used pipe-backed bayonets, for example the M1898? Does it have to do with saving metal; can you get a stiffer, stronger, lighter blade using less steel ?
Hey there. Nice video. Just subscribed. I picked up a small pipe back saber marked P.D.L on the ricasso. My understanding is this could be a British pattern, German import to the U.S. at the beginning of the Civil War. Do you know of such imported swords?
As far as British pipe-back blades, I prefer the Napoleonic era blades and the early P1827 Naval Officer's Sword blades. In general, the examples of those patterns I've handled tended to be broader than the P1821 and P1822 pipe-back blades. Although none have made as much sense design-wise as the tulwar you show in this video.
My dad's got a blade that looks very similar to the last one. It's supposed to be a Swedish officers sabre. He got it just for sabrage (opening champagne bottles wit a sabre), but unfortunately it's way too blunt to be useful for that. It has been broken and badly repaired so it's also very soft, almost like lead where it's welded (maybe it even is soldered rather than welded so maybe it actually is a lead compound). And the pipe back makes it even worse for sabrage since it prevents you from getting the angle right.
Could the flared false edge also be about adding mass to the center of percussion for hitting better and cutting better, esp. given it is a shorter length blade?
Half of I-beam, so basically, the T-beam. I was wondering, if that may help in case of modern sabre reproductions, where the limitation is usually the stock sheet metal thickness. If you hammer the back to be a bit thicker (stiffer), perhaps it may work?
T-spine are very common on kyber knives and Pesh Kabz. Also some Jambya feature them. They are all excellent thrusters, although the Kyber knife was used mostly for slashing.
I think rolling a bar thinner before grinding it into shape is cheaper than hammering it to a distal taper. That most likely translates to a even more complicated T-spine.
This shape of the blade comes from the territory of Austria, Polish officers from the time of the November Uprising had sabers with such a blade shape, e.g. the saber of general Jan Tomicki, more in ...szablotłuk polski
Prussia went to pipe back sabers towards the end of the 19th century for a single reason: the saber was not considered a primary weapon but rather an obsolete piece of equipment dragging along to it's last days. Prussian military doctrine was more concerned with firepower to the point that Von Moltke during the Franco-Prussian war of 1866 complained about the (almost) absence of bayonet charges due to the high rate of fire achieved by well trained, disciplined troops armed with Dreyse needle fire muskets. Most sabers that were issued after 1850 haven't seen action at all as demonstrated by the vast amount of specimens from that era in perfect condition.
Scholgdiatoria, My family has a sword identical to the one in the video. we are not sure where it came from but then our first descendant was a Fencible ( new Zealand) Ex gunner sargent. however the blade has not an edge and about 5" back from te tip is a notch about 1.. wide and 4mm deep. could you shed any light on this?
Matt, You speak a lot about edge geometry. Were most of these blade using a hollow ground edge or more of a diamond edge? I've heard that the lenticular is very good for cutting but is there any evidence for this? Regards Dave
Can anyone explain to me the rules about swords in the military in the 19th century? It seems like every so often there was an 'official' saber type, but then there are still many variants shown off on this channel. Were there rules about what kind of sword you could or could not carry, or was it more of a thing where the military issues you a certain type of sword and you can swap it out with whatever you want?
I'm curious why they didn't just go for something like a gradual hollow grind - wouldn't that have given similar benefits, but without the steep corner at the spine?
I don't know much about sword design, but after watching this video, I cannot help but wander what a pipe back or rather pipe middle would look like and perform on a longsword? Were pipes even put on straight blades?
you have european straight double edge swords with a thick center, with a hollow grind that basically is a "piped middle" sword. www.google.no/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjm_q-y2qbdAhUys4sKHas9Aa8QjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ASword_cross_section.svg&psig=AOvVaw2TQ9YVpxitLmJ18NU772lv&ust=1536334552222304
Center ridges were pretty common on swords at the end on the middle ages. That being said, medieval swords were usually heavier than 19th century swords of the same length, so the blades were very stiff and still able to cut decently.
Why weren't central rod sections more common? Thrusting avoids the hitting the rod issue entirely. Those narrow pipe backs could have been good thrusters if they weren't so curved,
That style of yelmen on the 1827 is also characteristic of Hungarian weapons. And with Austrian sabre being adopted... the Austro-Hungarian connection also shouldn't be discounted imho.
Well, I've handled an 11th-century blade with nearly that exact 2d geometry in the military museum up in the castle in Buda.... so it's not so much a question of "first," because respectfully, the origin of the sabre in Europe is known, and it's not an open question. I would recommend "do we have any way of looking at where the pipeback designers were looking at when they developed that weapon?" Not having any special focus on 19th century Brittania, I can't address that.
Weren't there turkic tribes running around in Hungary anyway. I'm pretty sure the Pechenegs, Magyars, Bulgars, and such like were all scampering all over it.
Avars, Khazars, Cumans, Iasians (though they preferred the lance), Seljuk mercenaries in the 1100s/1200s, .... yeah. The Ottomans are serious latecomers to the Carpathian Basin.
Well I mean the Ottomans kinda are the Seljuk, but yeah, as he said Turks, maybe he means the ethno-cultural group not the nationality. Also the Cumans and the Pechenegs are two names for the same people.
What’s the reason behind making swords with such a minimal curve? In this example it’s way too straight to benefit from the typical advantages of curved.blades and even the tiniest deviation makes a difference in thrusting, right?
Spear or halbard. Something very long so you go high or low almost instantly. If a halbard you probably want to hook and drag the shield then reverse thrust.
Seeing the yelman on the the naval officer made me think of something. From all the 18th and 19th century sabre and broadsword I've seen using the false edge to cut or parry isn't much of thing as opposed to earlier systems like Bolognese Sidesword or Meyers' Dussack and Rappier. Do we know of any 18th and 19th century sources that advocate for using the false edge to any great degree with cutting swords?
Super common in Hungarian fencing, and also quite present in Italo-Hungarian. I'd have to crack the manuals open to see if it's explicit within the Neapolitan itself.
Did indians use war spears? I'm sure they did, but I can't seem to find what they were called. India seems more famous for the swords and daggers, but they must have used spears as well.
Barry Singh Thank you. The indian weapons people commonly talk about tend to be the more exotic things like the pata and katar, but spears and bows are universal.
You talk a lot about the beginning of the 19th century. I own a model of Dutch infantry saber which was designed in 1890. My saber is pre ww1 but this design was adopted by the "prinses Irene brigade", a Dutch brigade within the british army in ww2, and is still used today as a ceremonial saber by the brigade. This design is from the late 19th century. While the "wilkinson" design took over how long did the pipeback stay around?
@@scholagladiatoria , i thought so but it wasn't clear in your video. But then again you talked about a specific time period and rhe inspirations for this type of blade. I wass just wondering what the history of this kind of blade is after the mid 19th century is. My blade hasn't been service sharpend but has been cleaned so much that the ijserhouwer mark has been removed completly. My blade does have clear signes of sparring though with clear marks on the strong of the blade which makes me wonder avout the use it got between the making of the blade and the first world war.
If you have a blade-rolling machine, which is what they were using after about 1860, then there is no difference. Though I suspect that there were more warping problems during heat treatment with pipe-backs.
Were medieval (oakeshott typology) swords just better than these later ones then (heavier but better at thrusting and cutting) , if bringing back foreign blades was so popular by this time? Or was this just fashion and showing off?
Medieval swords don't really perform better than good Victorian swords - I have many examples from both eras and you have to remember that some of medieval blade design was due to the materials available to them - 19th century steel was generally much better and more reliable.
Ido accept that it is true that 19th.c steel was generally more homogenous and of better quality. However if one was to maintain the geometry but with 19th.c steel, surely that would cut better? It just strikes me as odd that foreign swords should be preferred over the issued ones, especially when medieval swords are accounted to have performed quite terrifyingly in both capacities (depending on the type). Surely, say, one of the oakeshott type XVIIIs would perform better as a primarily thrust but also cutting capacity cavalry sword than say the French model XI, or likewise a type XIIIb would perform better than the British 1796 heavy cavalry as a cutting but also thrust? I dont possess enough swords to test this and i am not an expert as you are, perhaps you have tested this?
Also, didn't you say once that saber fencing favors different blade width compared to sword and shield, longsword , sword and buckler and messer? You said once on the movie fights video that early movie fencing was done with narrower arming swords to make it easier for the actors to employ saber style fencing with.
I have one almost exactly like that, etchings and grip - it doesn't have that groove on the back- OT he mentioned Afghanistan, ironically the word 'assassin' is from Afghanistan
The 1827 sword looks like a bigger version of the 1845 dutch infantry officer's sword, especially the yelman. The dutch one is narrower, of course, but not longer.
With you being a fan of bayonets, thought you might get a kick out of this one. The Trowel Bayonet was issued with the Trapdoor Springfield in the US army for a short while. The idea was it could be used as a bayonet and an entrenching tool. Turns out it did neither job well so it was discontinued. www.ima-usa.com/products/original-rare-model-1868-u-s-springfield-trapdoor-trowel-bayonet-scabbard-dated?variant=26168689029
sharp edge to attack, pipe edge to defend, if it is a cutting sword! Also is time to talk about the Mycenaean long swords( > 1.50 mtr.) made of copper....
Master Easton is constantly carrying around that Navy pipe backed blade that it probably my favourite British blade ever, and I always hate him a little bit more.
tuskil Nope, Sharpe notably carried a 1796 Pattern Heavy Cavalry Sabre - a straight sword - which he then modified from a hatchet point to a spear point for better penetration on the thrust. 😉 Very important, that! It’s known as a butchers blade, it’s a bit of a brute. Although in some of Sharpe’s early adventures in India, he did do combat with an Indian Tulwar amongst other random swords (light cavalry sabre, Scottish Claymore etc...)that he picked up from around the place. He also enjoyed the British Naval Cutlass in Sharpe’s Trafalgar - seemingly preferring big brutal swords to lighter, more delicate blades. 👍🏼
Sorry, posted even before I watched it. Saw a fair number of naval officers swords in the Maritime Museum in Halifax which reminded me of pieces I saw in the Topkapi museum in Istanbul in cross-section.
Wakizashi and Katana have more or less different uses entirely, the Wakizashi, the smaller one, was more of a symbolic tool that would be kept on a samurai's person at all times, and is the tool that would be used in the event that the samurai in question has to commit seppuku, or for self defense if the need arises. Katana are divided into two distinct groups, some are heavier in the blade and used for executions, and the rest are nimbler and for battlefield use. there are also a bunch of other subsections of Japanese sword, but these are the two in question.
Wakizashi (little) is for inside. I think in the book of five rings in the bit where he is explaining why two swords are better than one, musashi talks about 'checking in' your katana at the door but always having your short sword on you. Its a great book thats not too long you should read. For sure it will be an audio book on youtube atb
Ps i reckon in alot of cultures the sword was for killing your own peasants, or at least for showing the peasantry you had the authority to do so. That and dueling.
Great video! Just to add something on the prussian pipe back blades. They started upgrading their cavalry swords model 1852 with a new pipe back blade in 1879 and later switched to the new 1889 model in the early 1890's.
Prussian bayonets started using pipe back blades in 1860 and used them until the first world war.
With kind regards, Vincent.
That naval sword looks awesome! I wouldn’t mind seeing more British naval swords!
I agree. More navel swords ( and not just British ones ) would be great !
Indeed, i'm myself very interested in naval equipment as well as naval warfare in general, especially in the napoleonic era.
Just when you think you've heard everything about swords, Matt posts something like this.
Matt: "Prussia was quite powerful, but not on the same level as... France"
Prussia: "Hold my beer."
Well, what he said was true, it's just that Napoléon 3 wasn't that great of a general compared to his great uncle
Not even that, it's just that France in the 1860-70 was not prepared for war on the continent. Meanwhile Prussia had been invading it's Germanic neighbors for quite some time and got the help of the entire German federation whereas France did not receive the help it expected (from Russia, Austria and maybe the UK).
What he says is true, but he is speaking of the early XIXth century, by 1870 the situation had drastically changed.
Napoleon the third was not so much an incompetent general as Moltke was an excellent one.
Ἀντίγονος Τελικά οι Έλληνες είμαστε πραγματικά παντού ;)
Chaos I am not Greek, I'm afraid. I read ancient Greek so my modern Greek is only patchy.
Ἀντίγονος oh its just that you have an ancient greek name so that got confused still thumbs up for learning ancient Greek.
one of my favourite swords in my collection is a turkish pala with a T spine. It's a great design, and proof that broad pipebacks are effective
Avatrass So long as "doing a masters degree" counts as alive, yeah
Finally matt mentions my country atleast once albania lol! I loved that naval officer pipeback
I've done some tatami cutting with T-back blades recently and found that the T shaped spine doesn't cause the issue with cutting that people seem to assume.
please do water bottle cuttings with this. That will be interesting, because of the pipe/rod at the back...
Thank you Matt, This has shed a lot more light on the 1823 infantry Officers sword I have hanging on my wall. Yet another great video.
The US M1833 Dragoon Sword (for troopers) was a copy of the P1821 LC Officer's Sword, but with a brass guard instead of a steel guard. It was a very short-lived model as it was replaced in 1840 with a somewhat Germanic interpretation of the French Mle.1822 LC Sabre.
One advantage of how the Pipeback cuts is lack of cutting depth would help prevent getting stuck
Conversely, especially in winter, lack of cutting depth would be disadvantageous against thick clothes/coats.
I have learned so much from you. Thank you for your work.
Wow, amazing stuff as always. I am very interested in Turkish blades so this video was really cool.
ha. One of my Tulwars is a pipe back. Exciting. thank you as always Matt.
2:42 I often meet resistance when my targets meet my rod.
i have a 1889 patern german cavalry saber , with that type of blade , and i really like it , and , at the end of 19th , having a trust capable stiff blade was nice ( and the handle on this is sooooo great )
Always interesting videos start to finish. Thanks.
It is strange to notice that «pipe back » straight razors with a real steel or brass pipe in the back (it seems to be invented in this same period) are called frameback blades.
Cool video Matt. I enjoyed the research
12:00 -- I think this is the single coolest part of this video. I'm also struck with the impression that this sword is a bit like a mirror image of a surgeon's knife.
17:26 "So they were in contact with people form the Balkans" Macedonia here, more than 500 years of slavery and still going on! \m/
Cossacks also had some of these because Turkey was really close.
Listens to Matt explain 19th century European politics.
Loads up Empire Total War.
What differentiates a pipe back on a single edged blade with a ridge in the centre of a double edged blade? Do you think the issues are similar? There are arming swords (like one that's been on your wall) with pronounced central ridges (not to mention bronze swords), I was surprised you didn't mention them though I understand the video is already 20 mins.
I'm interested in military swords a lot and I'd never heard of pipe back swords. I always learn something from your videos. Could you do a video on artillery shortswords as sidearms. Also when was the bastard sword/long swords/arming sword last issued, other than basket hilts. I know Katanas where used in the 40's but I'm curious when us white Euro folk or other folks used our traditional swords.
Great video as usual, keep it up and keep your swords nice and sharp! :)
Did not mention in my opinion the best feature of a pipe back - that being that when combined with a proper scabbard that grips the pipe your sword is remains sharp. Steel scabbard of the period tend to ruin your edge when riding on a horse, when the scabbard grips the tube and holds the edge away from the scabbard this is not a problem. Sword tend to spend a lot more time riding the the scabbard than being drawn in anger. It is nice for you edge to still be keen when you need it.
Now I'm really curious about Turkish swords (I know next to nothing about them). Have you got any, Matt? Could you talk about them in more detail?
Cheers Matt
Is Superdry in cahoots with Bianchi? What's with the Celeste shirt?
When I first heard of "pipe back" I thought they were hollow, I didn't realise that it's meant in terms of the piping on a uniform or piped icing etc, the name just refers to something with a cylindrical shape.
The swedish m/1859 infantry officer sabre is also a pipe backed one
How are your shirts always so SUPER DRY?
😃
Mechanically for a thrusting use, would the extra rigidity of a pipeback be meaningful, or were these weapons explicitly for cutting with little thought in the thrust?
Also, how were these made? Was a second piece of metal attached to the blade as it was being assembled, or was the piece originally that thick and ground down such that only the back retained the original thickness?
They were roll forged with some touch up hammering and straightening done manually then ground by hand on special grinding wheels some of them six feet in diameter or more and finally polished on felt wheels charged with different grit grades each until the specified finish was achieved.
Does the pipe taper towards the tip, or end before the tip so as to not impede the slicing power of the last portion of the blade?
Spanish navy officer swords were pipe-back from the mid 19th century and I think still are today
Thank you!
“It’s not bad it just becomes less good”
2 questions - is there any difference between "pipe-backed" and quill-backed" blades, and, do you have any suggestions as to why Germany used pipe-backed bayonets, for example the M1898? Does it have to do with saving metal; can you get a stiffer, stronger, lighter blade using less steel ?
Hey there. Nice video. Just subscribed. I picked up a small pipe back saber marked P.D.L on the ricasso. My understanding is this could be a British pattern, German import to the U.S. at the beginning of the Civil War. Do you know of such imported swords?
As far as British pipe-back blades, I prefer the Napoleonic era blades and the early P1827 Naval Officer's Sword blades. In general, the examples of those patterns I've handled tended to be broader than the P1821 and P1822 pipe-back blades. Although none have made as much sense design-wise as the tulwar you show in this video.
I'm joking of course, but the French never adopted the pipe backed blade because it didn't look as good ;)
I feel like the potential problem of the target colliding with the pipe back is to simply not have one, it seems better to just have a fullered blade
My dad's got a blade that looks very similar to the last one. It's supposed to be a Swedish officers sabre. He got it just for sabrage (opening champagne bottles wit a sabre), but unfortunately it's way too blunt to be useful for that. It has been broken and badly repaired so it's also very soft, almost like lead where it's welded (maybe it even is soldered rather than welded so maybe it actually is a lead compound). And the pipe back makes it even worse for sabrage since it prevents you from getting the angle right.
fantastic video
Could the flared false edge also be about adding mass to the center of percussion for hitting better and cutting better, esp. given it is a shorter length blade?
Matt how did British /French officers use their oriental blades ? As we all know they were utterly different to their European counterparts?
Half of I-beam, so basically, the T-beam. I was wondering, if that may help in case of modern sabre reproductions, where the limitation is usually the stock sheet metal thickness. If you hammer the back to be a bit thicker (stiffer), perhaps it may work?
T-spine are very common on kyber knives and Pesh Kabz. Also some Jambya feature them. They are all excellent thrusters, although the Kyber knife was used mostly for slashing.
I think rolling a bar thinner before grinding it into shape is cheaper than hammering it to a distal taper. That most likely translates to a even more complicated T-spine.
This shape of the blade comes from the territory of Austria, Polish officers from the time of the November Uprising had sabers with such a blade shape, e.g. the saber of general Jan Tomicki, more in ...szablotłuk polski
Prussia went to pipe back sabers towards the end of the 19th century for a single reason: the saber was not considered a primary weapon but rather an obsolete piece of equipment dragging along to it's last days. Prussian military doctrine was more concerned with firepower to the point that Von Moltke during the Franco-Prussian war of 1866 complained about the (almost) absence of bayonet charges due to the high rate of fire achieved by well trained, disciplined troops armed with Dreyse needle fire muskets. Most sabers that were issued after 1850 haven't seen action at all as demonstrated by the vast amount of specimens from that era in perfect condition.
Cheers matt
Scholgdiatoria, My family has a sword identical to the one in the video. we are not sure where it came from but then our first descendant was a Fencible ( new Zealand) Ex gunner sargent. however the blade has not an edge and about 5" back from te tip is a notch about 1.. wide and 4mm deep. could you shed any light on this?
Matt, You speak a lot about edge geometry. Were most of these blade using a hollow ground edge or more of a diamond edge? I've heard that the lenticular is very good for cutting but is there any evidence for this?
Regards
Dave
Can anyone explain to me the rules about swords in the military in the 19th century? It seems like every so often there was an 'official' saber type, but then there are still many variants shown off on this channel. Were there rules about what kind of sword you could or could not carry, or was it more of a thing where the military issues you a certain type of sword and you can swap it out with whatever you want?
14:58, people came into contact with (...) Weapons.
I'm curious why they didn't just go for something like a gradual hollow grind - wouldn't that have given similar benefits, but without the steep corner at the spine?
I don't know much about sword design, but after watching this video, I cannot help but wander what a pipe back or rather pipe middle would look like and perform on a longsword? Were pipes even put on straight blades?
you have european straight double edge swords with a thick center, with a hollow grind that basically is a "piped middle" sword. www.google.no/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjm_q-y2qbdAhUys4sKHas9Aa8QjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ASword_cross_section.svg&psig=AOvVaw2TQ9YVpxitLmJ18NU772lv&ust=1536334552222304
www.albion-swords.com/images/bareblades/jodyleaf-3.jpg
Center ridges were pretty common on swords at the end on the middle ages.
That being said, medieval swords were usually heavier than 19th century swords of the same length, so the blades were very stiff and still able to cut decently.
Why weren't central rod sections more common? Thrusting avoids the hitting the rod issue entirely. Those narrow pipe backs could have been good thrusters if they weren't so curved,
Often wondered if there was a change in blade pattern in 1854 or if this date just ended the folding hilt for good?
That style of yelmen on the 1827 is also characteristic of Hungarian weapons. And with Austrian sabre being adopted... the Austro-Hungarian connection also shouldn't be discounted imho.
The question is where was it first? Hungary was fought over for centuries between Austria and the Ottomans.
Well, I've handled an 11th-century blade with nearly that exact 2d geometry in the military museum up in the castle in Buda.... so it's not so much a question of "first," because respectfully, the origin of the sabre in Europe is known, and it's not an open question. I would recommend "do we have any way of looking at where the pipeback designers were looking at when they developed that weapon?" Not having any special focus on 19th century Brittania, I can't address that.
Weren't there turkic tribes running around in Hungary anyway. I'm pretty sure the Pechenegs, Magyars, Bulgars, and such like were all scampering all over it.
Avars, Khazars, Cumans, Iasians (though they preferred the lance), Seljuk mercenaries in the 1100s/1200s, .... yeah. The Ottomans are serious latecomers to the Carpathian Basin.
Well I mean the Ottomans kinda are the Seljuk, but yeah, as he said Turks, maybe he means the ethno-cultural group not the nationality. Also the Cumans and the Pechenegs are two names for the same people.
Who made the first sword in the video ?
What’s the reason behind making swords with such a minimal curve? In this example it’s way too straight to benefit from the typical advantages of curved.blades and even the tiniest deviation makes a difference in thrusting, right?
I might be mistaken, but falcata or kopis, were those T cross section blades?
Some were, but usually it was just a very thick spine before the break in the back that became super thin especially in the wide parts.
What weapon works best in a 1 v 1 against someone using a large shield similar to a kite, scutum, or dueling shield? What should you choose?
If it's an outdoor fight - spear FTW.
Spear to snipe or an axe to break the shield
Spear or halbard. Something very long so you go high or low almost instantly. If a halbard you probably want to hook and drag the shield then reverse thrust.
A blunderbuss.
I always try to keep my scrotum shielded in a fight. Wait- think i misread that- nvm.
Good video about Pipe-Back Blades. Thank you Mr Easton.
Seeing the yelman on the the naval officer made me think of something. From all the 18th and 19th century sabre and broadsword I've seen using the false edge to cut or parry isn't much of thing as opposed to earlier systems like Bolognese Sidesword or Meyers' Dussack and Rappier. Do we know of any 18th and 19th century sources that advocate for using the false edge to any great degree with cutting swords?
Super common in Hungarian fencing, and also quite present in Italo-Hungarian. I'd have to crack the manuals open to see if it's explicit within the Neapolitan itself.
Did indians use war spears? I'm sure they did, but I can't seem to find what they were called. India seems more famous for the swords and daggers, but they must have used spears as well.
Barry Singh Thank you. The indian weapons people commonly talk about tend to be the more exotic things like the pata and katar, but spears and bows are universal.
Bhala
You talk a lot about the beginning of the 19th century. I own a model of Dutch infantry saber which was designed in 1890. My saber is pre ww1 but this design was adopted by the "prinses Irene brigade", a Dutch brigade within the british army in ww2, and is still used today as a ceremonial saber by the brigade. This design is from the late 19th century. While the "wilkinson" design took over how long did the pipeback stay around?
Both blade types are still in use for parade purposes and both were used in WW1 and WW2.
@@scholagladiatoria , i thought so but it wasn't clear in your video. But then again you talked about a specific time period and rhe inspirations for this type of blade. I wass just wondering what the history of this kind of blade is after the mid 19th century is. My blade hasn't been service sharpend but has been cleaned so much that the ijserhouwer mark has been removed completly. My blade does have clear signes of sparring though with clear marks on the strong of the blade which makes me wonder avout the use it got between the making of the blade and the first world war.
I wonder which one was cheaper to make between a fuller blade and pipe backed?
If you have a blade-rolling machine, which is what they were using after about 1860, then there is no difference. Though I suspect that there were more warping problems during heat treatment with pipe-backs.
Were medieval (oakeshott typology) swords just better than these later ones then (heavier but better at thrusting and cutting) , if bringing back foreign blades was so popular by this time? Or was this just fashion and showing off?
Medieval swords don't really perform better than good Victorian swords - I have many examples from both eras and you have to remember that some of medieval blade design was due to the materials available to them - 19th century steel was generally much better and more reliable.
Ido accept that it is true that 19th.c steel was generally more homogenous and of better quality. However if one was to maintain the geometry but with 19th.c steel, surely that would cut better?
It just strikes me as odd that foreign swords should be preferred over the issued ones, especially when medieval swords are accounted to have performed quite terrifyingly in both capacities (depending on the type). Surely, say, one of the oakeshott type XVIIIs would perform better as a primarily thrust but also cutting capacity cavalry sword than say the French model XI, or likewise a type XIIIb would perform better than the British 1796 heavy cavalry as a cutting but also thrust?
I dont possess enough swords to test this and i am not an expert as you are, perhaps you have tested this?
Also, didn't you say once that saber fencing favors different blade width compared to sword and shield, longsword , sword and buckler and messer? You said once on the movie fights video that early movie fencing was done with narrower arming swords to make it easier for the actors to employ saber style fencing with.
Muito bom, ótima instrução
I have one almost exactly like that, etchings and grip - it doesn't have that groove on the back-
OT he mentioned Afghanistan, ironically the word 'assassin' is from Afghanistan
Your source ?
10:10 Careful. You trip in that room and you'll likely come up looking like a pincushion.
lol
The 1827 sword looks like a bigger version of the 1845 dutch infantry officer's sword, especially the yelman. The dutch one is narrower, of course, but not longer.
Definitely a stress riser.
Would the earlier "back swords" have been pipe backed?
With you being a fan of bayonets, thought you might get a kick out of this one. The Trowel Bayonet was issued with the Trapdoor Springfield in the US army for a short while. The idea was it could be used as a bayonet and an entrenching tool. Turns out it did neither job well so it was discontinued. www.ima-usa.com/products/original-rare-model-1868-u-s-springfield-trapdoor-trowel-bayonet-scabbard-dated?variant=26168689029
sharp edge to attack, pipe edge to defend, if it is a cutting sword! Also is time to talk about the Mycenaean long swords( > 1.50 mtr.) made of copper....
Resistance when met with the rod
So, I wonder what a 1796 Light Cavalry sabre would be like as a pipe-back...
Master Easton is constantly carrying around that Navy pipe backed blade that it probably my favourite British blade ever, and I always hate him a little bit more.
huge storage of fully semi automatic zombie knoifs uncovered!
When were swords most commonly used in history?
I need money. I need lots of money so I can fly to England & hit you up on blades & buy one of your antiques.
what about a sword with both a fuller and this pipe back?
Is that Sharpe's sword?
tuskil Nope, Sharpe notably carried a 1796 Pattern Heavy Cavalry Sabre - a straight sword - which he then modified from a hatchet point to a spear point for better penetration on the thrust. 😉 Very important, that! It’s known as a butchers blade, it’s a bit of a brute. Although in some of Sharpe’s early adventures in India, he did do combat with an Indian Tulwar amongst other random swords (light cavalry sabre, Scottish Claymore etc...)that he picked up from around the place. He also enjoyed the British Naval Cutlass in Sharpe’s Trafalgar - seemingly preferring big brutal swords to lighter, more delicate blades. 👍🏼
@@joelsmith9311 big and brutal was always his style, but he did love some thrusting penetration too!!
Light cavalry sabre is what i was thinking of
I think one of the inspirations would have been the Turkish Kilic.
Hi - well yeah, I spent a fair chunk of the video saying that :-)
Sorry, posted even before I watched it. Saw a fair number of naval officers swords in the Maritime Museum in Halifax which reminded me of pieces I saw in the Topkapi museum in Istanbul in cross-section.
Why use this method rather than a triangular cross section? Doesn't make sense to me.
“Prussia was not as strong as France”
*Hans, get the dryse*
Have you seen those warriors from Hammerfell?
They have curved swords.
Curved... swords...
I prefer straight swords
Damascus steel, (Byzantium) testament of europe (Spain) to the east!
I did use one of these once to cut down a small tree. They're more resilient than they appear
Triggered.
Super Dry
Pipebacks can be good swords, but they're lousy pipes. I keep cutting my lips every time I try to have a smoke ;)
primeiro
Sorry, Matt, too many commercial interruptions. And at odd times. Unsubscribed, tried again, but too irritating. Best wishes!
Install an addblocker, problem solved.
if the katana was a reserve weapon, why samurai used two
They... didn't.. :-)
The little one is actually a different type of blade. Like a rapier and main gauche.
Wakizashi and Katana have more or less different uses entirely, the Wakizashi, the smaller one, was more of a symbolic tool that would be kept on a samurai's person at all times, and is the tool that would be used in the event that the samurai in question has to commit seppuku, or for self defense if the need arises.
Katana are divided into two distinct groups, some are heavier in the blade and used for executions, and the rest are nimbler and for battlefield use.
there are also a bunch of other subsections of Japanese sword, but these are the two in question.
Wakizashi (little) is for inside. I think in the book of five rings in the bit where he is explaining why two swords are better than one, musashi talks about 'checking in' your katana at the door but always having your short sword on you. Its a great book thats not too long you should read. For sure it will be an audio book on youtube atb
Ps i reckon in alot of cultures the sword was for killing your own peasants, or at least for showing the peasantry you had the authority to do so. That and dueling.