Your videos are amazing. Informative, based on real experience, no fuss/hype, good voice and the right length. I've been an avid grower for 8 seasons and I'm mind blown that this channel has only recently come to my attention.
Very well said. I’ve been watching this channel for quite some time, and it’s a shame that it’s not more prominent in the YT algorithm. There’s plenty of hype and clickbait out there, but I look forward to the thoughtful content Bruce produces.
For many people practicing regenerative or organic growing, using the conventional fertilisers like this would be out of the question, either because of certification restrictions, or a desire to completely avoid this type of stuff. I am still not easy with it, but I think this kind of approach can be a really useful solution for some situations, so worth exploring.
Good for you Bruce. I've bee an on and off market gardener for almost 50 years. I started in the 70's as an organic zealot but over the years have come to see that there's a lot more to it than that. I've been down almost exactly the same path as you the last few years, buying in tons of municipal compost only to find iit was very lacking in nitrogen. I started out adding urea and it worked well. Did you know that when you look at chicken manure the white part is urea, the exact same stuff that comes in the big plastic bag? Birds don't urinate, so they concentrate and crystallize their waste nitrogen into pure urea. i'm lucky I can buy pelleted chicken manure much cheaper than you, $8 us for 25 kilos, so i've just been buying that in bulk and adding it with good results, but i have a good stash of urea on hand in case I can't get the pellets. i have a lot of people come to me to ask gardening questions, and one of the first things i tell them is 'don't let ideology guide your gardening', look at the results. BTW, if you haven't read Steve Solomon's book 'The intelligent Gardener', read it, it opened my eyes to many things about growing food.
Good to know I am not alone in this! 😁 I didn't know that about bird manure, very interesting! Over here, the chicken manure pellets are quite expensive, €34 including delivery. And with only 4% nitrogen it would take a whole 25kg bag to bring in 1kg of nitrogen. With the urea, it would take just over 2kg to bring in the same amount of nitrogen, at a cost of about €2 (if buying 50kg bags). Of course there would also be about 1/3 kg of phosphorous in the 25kg bag of chicken manure pellets, but that cost me only another €2 when I buy in a big bag of superphosphate. So, just looking at those two main nutrients I want to add, it seems about 8 times more expensive to buy chicken manure pellets, compared to the bulk conventional stuff I can get locally, assuming I can make use of or sell off the rest of the fertiliser. When I do the calculations like that, it helps me get over some of the biases I have had about using the conventional fertilisers! I have read Steve's books. Very interesting stuff, and he really allowed me to contemplate going down this path.
It's that time of year again where I'm settled in for a long winters nap and watching garden vids when they pop up. My seeds are ready, the grow room fully stocked and waiting and compost piles frozen till April/May sometime when I'll start shaving off what I can from the top for those early crops. Thanks for the vid and good luck next year, may it be as good as mine was this year. Happy gardening everyone.
I feel like you're slowly perfecting the techniques that would be best for the "black plot" style garden with your amendments to the municipal compost. I've always liked the scientific approach you have to this which allows us to see the details and apply/adapt the knowledge to our own situations. You now have an abundance of slightly too fertile compost - nearly perfect for some situations.
Thanks for that comment, it means a lot! 😁 I do think there is something to this more hybrid approach and I am interested to see how things develop next year.
I never thought that I would worry so much about soil enrichment. Walks on the beach turn into small bags of seaweed searches for my compost heap. Opportunities are often in my mind, this blog does give direction along with more thought about my small st scale growing. Thank you. Birdy
Many of us worm farmers also add amendments destined for our gardens to our worm farms. I really appreciate all the effort you put in to your videos! ~ Sandra
It's a pleasure to see your dark and fluffy soil, In my garden I have heavy clay soil and something is very difficult grow something in this soil, I add lot of organic matter but every time it seems not enough
@REDGardens I think one of the most important advantages of not having clay soil is the possibility of digging and transplanting vegetables every month of the year! Unfortunately, from mid-October onwards I cannot dig the soil because it becomes too wet and you don't get any good results from digging when this is the case, on the contrary, it worsens the structure of the soil! From October to March I can't dig, then it depends on the year! Two years ago we had a very dry winter and in March we could already till (which had never happened before) while the spring of 2024 was very rainy until mid-June and this delayed the transplanting of all the summer vegetables: tomatoes, aubergines , courgettes, peppers, pumpkins etc... If you grow things for work, a 5 month window in which you can't transplant anything is really too much! I do it as a hobby, but I'm still looking for a way to get around the problem and be able to grow something every month of the year! Unfortunately, building raised beds and filling them with 20cm of compost worked less well than I hoped, in summer you have to water a lot more and I often lack nutrients because the plants remain smaller than those transplanted into the soil, finally under 20cm of compost a very compact layer of clay is formed which is difficult for the roots to penetrate and the water passes through the layer of compost and when it reaches the layer of clay it is not absorbed and slides laterally to the sides of the raised bed favoring the growth of weeds in the walkways! Maybe I'll try again next year and change something
@@francescodotto4007 I've seen a few videos of growers praising their clay-rich soil with just an application of compost and saying they'd prefer clay-rich soil to sandy soil. Perhaps the key is maintaining the right amount of moisture in the compost so that the biology is maintained and can work on mixing the clay soil and compost together. One possible way of doing that might be by covering the compost with plastic tarps. Heavy duty ones that last more than one or two seasons. And watering before covering and checking from time to time that it stays moist. Of course you then need to either buy your plants or sow in module trays and then plant out in holes in the tarps. This way would also limit the amount of digging you need to do. In any case good luck next season!
@@al3xf103 To maintain the right humidity in summer and not have to water too often, the best thing is to mix the compost with the first cm of soil and grow directly in the soil enriched with compost and covered with mulch, instead, at the end of summer, for autumn and winter transplants, after digging to de-compact the soil at the end of summer, the best thing to do is to spread a layer (about 10cm) of compost and plant directly in that without tilling to mix it with the soil! Thank you for your help, I will try next year
Always great content here! I have experimented quite a bit with urine in grazing pastures and the results are impressive. I hope your gentle hints here inspire people to stop flushing fertility down the toilet. Its the worst thing you can do with your urine
It's insane when you think about it. Our bodies produce high quality fertilizer, and we go and mix it with potable water and faeces and send it down pipes to huge treatment plants, if we don't flush it into rivers. Sometimes I can't believe how dumb we are.
I recycle most of my coffee, beer & wine through my compost bays. Seriously considering a composting toilet to make stuff to use on my shrubs & flower beds.
I believe you are right about the fact that the muncipal compost is generally low in readily available plant nutrients. Here in Denmark, households and business can dump off waste including garden waste in recycling stations. The garden waste is then transported to a central composting facility, where it is put through the fast thermophilic composting in a matter of weeks. The waste from gardens is mostly woody material like hedge trimmings, branches and trimming from trees and only a smaller fraction consisting of high C:N ratio materials like grass clippings and green leaves. So, that the resulting compost being relatively high C:N ratio makes a lot of sense. I have used a lot of this compost which is offered for free in my municipality and I have long had a suspiscion of it being not quite enough to supply plant throughout a growing season. I even have run a small experiments with small tomato plants prickled to pure municipality compost in pots inside the house and they run out of nitrogen only after a few weeks. Despite this, the information supplied on the compost will even tell you to "dilute" the compost with garden soil as they claim it is too nutrient dense and will cause damage to plants if growing directly in this compost. That is clearly not my experience, and your experience and thoughts is even more motivation to try and find means to compensate for the deficiencies in municipal compost.
Sounds like very similar stuff to what I can get, though I think this stuff has a bit more nitrogen availability. if it is clean, and you can get it for free, it might make sense to amend it with whatever high nitrogen stuff you can get, and other nutrients, and turn it into a more valuable thing.
Thankyou for taking the time to share your knowledge and experiences. Most appreciated 😊👍. I tend to agree. Manmade fertilizers are a useful thing when used responsibly. The real enemy of mine is herbicides, pesticides, and plastic pollution. I have work on an organic market garden, the amount of plastic in the soil is unreal. Organic does not always mean clean
Love your criticism and analysis of your own work. It is so helpful when trying out my OWN tests. Sometime though, I think your criticism is too rough, as you are panning your absolutely WONDERFUL looking crops! 😊
Thanks! I try to be real about it all, but then I go and only show the shots of the gardens and plants when they are looking awesome, and not the areas that are struggling! 😁
You could argue that this is an organic growing method because no artificial fertilizer actually gets to the plants. It (theoretically) all gets bound up as organic compounds in the compost during the month of fermentation. It's certainly a slow-release fertilizer.
Yeah, I can see that. The boundary between organic and non-organic is an interesting and tricky one. The more I learn and explore, the more unsure I am about it all.
@REDGardens Bruce - I wouldn’t be so concerned about the difference, N is N whatever the source and you are taking the best steps to make it plant available. I like the comment above chelating with humates, it’s level 10 nerd, but it makes sense.
I have raised beds. I amend my soil with vegetable/fruit waste from the grocery store. I dig in the food waste and chop up the veggies with a shovel to get as much contact to the soil as possible. I sprinkle in fertilizer and soak well. I keep the area moist and within 2 weeks the waste is all gone and the soil is much improved. I keep doing this to the soil whenever I have a spot without plants. I find a huge improvement to the soil and I don't have to turn a heavy compost pile.
As always Bruce, brilliant advice.. i have been buying expensive mushroom compost.. You notice the growth spurt within days. However now thanks to your insight.. Going to save some cash and grab some municipal low grade compost and enhance it with some organic inputs. Thank m8.. your a garden Yoda.
Or at least mixing in the bags a bit, those looked like good layers of amendments. I add amendments as I make a pile so that they benefit from the one or two turns I will do.
12:15. Compost tea action! If you buy in material more now, buy in the highest quality worm castings as possible that isn’t old. Good luck on your journey.
I've always looked at vegetable gardening as an experiment that begins anew every spring. I keep the techniques that seemed to have worked in past seasons, and try new ones that appear potentially hopeful.
Fascinating, great work. I don't know enough about what effects unbalanced nutrients have in regards to it being plant available, but I'm aware this is true. I've often considered this procedure of applying nutrients to the compost to try and mitigate this situation. Somehow making more of the stuff available before it gets stopped or blocked by the unbalance. I suppose I should just get my soil tested, but need to crack the code on that one. This year, I'm adding at least something to the compost.
Ill leave it at if you want to know more, read the Intelligent Gardener by Steve Solomon hes very wise and his book seriously breaks down what unbalanced soils do. I am friends with steve and talk with him regularly.
Great vidoe, and it deals with something I‘ve been grappling with for quite a while. It is actualy one of my bug bears with Charles Dowding who - grows fantastic vegetable - and always recommends using compost only, But his compost isn‘t just garden compost, like I have, but has significant amounts of composted horse/cattle manure and spent muchroom compost, all things that have quite a bit more nitrogen than just garden compost. So it‘s very interesting and helpful seeing videos like this one.
Yeah, it is a concern of mine as well. I have no doubt that you can grow great vegetables using Charles' no dig method with only compost, but I think you really do need good compost, made with plenty of high nitrogen material, and good soil.
This year i have been using free municipal compost as a brown in my bins. Just adding to local greens from the garden/yard/house, split with wood chips from a 2 year old pile. Ended up getting about 5 cu yd of wildflower prarie growth mixed in with it.
I greatly appreciate the RED Gardens approach of being dedicated to pursuing the exploration of what actually works, and of helping us all shed our preconceived notions when appropriate (especially with such an eye for how significantly context can change everything). I am really interested in the further testing of this conscientious blending of the more minimalist/self-produced/organic-purist methods and the more 'modern conventional' additions of municipal compost and concentrated and synthesized fertilizer components - I share many of the same predispositions, eschewing almost all external inputs in favor of inputs that I can produce myself at very low costs (scythed hay, free wood chips, kitchen waste, etc.), but I also think that these often readily accessible external inputs that are more ubiquitous among conventional/non-organic type growers have the potential for very positive impacts if used wisely and sparingly. As always, grateful for the exploration and education
Thanks for the comment. 😁 I do agree with your points. If I was just growing for myself, and had lots of space, I'd probably fall back onto just making do with what I can produce myself, with occasional amendments. I kind of miss that casual approach. But so many people don't have access to lots of space, or need to be much more productive in a smaller space. And I think the world is going in a direction that many more people will find themselves in similar situations. It is in this more intensive or resource scarce context that I think the careful hybrid approaches can be really useful, if not essential, and using what is available and cheap to grow a lot of food, while minimising damage, becomes more of the focus.
Its great to see this balanced approach Bruce, all too often people become polarised on one side of the argument or the other, no halfway point. After we spoke last year I began using one of the combo amendments myself with very encouraging results, as you say not much in the way of guidelines for small growers but I did discover a few things along the way, avoid clumping around plant roots as may lead to over supply of nitrogen. I also noticed the results can take a while to show in plant health, I try to avoid adding a second scattering if nothing happens as likely a slow release variant. I would like to buy in compost too, have you come across any issues with PFAS in supplies as this seems to popping up on other UA-cam channels more frequently, lastly if not already aware (probably are) Soil food web by Dr Elaine Ingham, fascinating insight through the microscope into micro organisms, fungi, all the best
Great to hear you have had encouraging results! Going easy and being observant with all this stuff is definitely a good idea 😁 I don't know much about the PFAS issue. I know that the main person at the supplier is really serious about supplying a good product, so hopefully he is taking the precautions. But there are always risks in importing anything into our gardens.
Cool, will definitely check out the compost supplier as my setup is very similar to yours only smaller, PFAS more commonly known as 'forever chemicals' which I think cover some herbicides and pesticides too. amazed to see the real Erin Brockovich (Julia Roberts played her in the movie) running with this. Erin interviewed which covers topic in depth 'Growing Broke: Forever chemicals', cheers for now
Tempering ideals with practicality is a valuable concept, and one I frequently ignore! I get excited about organic, no dig, high biotic, hyper local, etc etc and basics like soil testing or balancing C:N get lost.
Very cool. If that whole bucket was per bag, seemed a far bit to me, but potentially that was a lot of seaweed meal. One of my techniques is to do multiple applications a few weeks apart and see how plants respond. Changing the amount I dress the plants with accordingly. If the plants seem a little burnt, I drop it down a bit but not much because you kind of want to be in that spot right below burning ha. One thing I would say is the reason commercial fertilisers often put warnings about feeding grass paddocks where cattle graze is due to the amounts of mercury or other heavy metals present in the industrially created fertiliser. A problem where it's concentrated in cattle due to the large amount of veg they eat. Not so much in the vegetable garden potentially? Very cool experiments once again from this channel. Love it!
Thanks 😁 It was only a part bucket, but still a fair amount of fertiliser and seaweed meal. Thanks for the warning about heavy metals, not something I know anything about.
Interesting take as usual. I have lots of leaves, grass and high carbon stuff, but not enough nitrogen, so I buy urea, dissolve it in water (around 2%) and water my compost with it. It really helps with temps and speed, and the nitrogen is available right away when I apply the compost. I'm not certified organic, but it works for me
That sounds like a good approach. I think it would have been better if I had dissolved all the soluble fertiliser in water first before adding it to the compost.
Great video. Have you used bio char? The documentary on terra preta (black earth} in the amazon is thought provoking too. Subsequent studies and papers make good reading. Feeding the living soil biology and giving them a good home is important . Its their by-products that can feed plants too. Very similar to our own gut micro-biome.
I have used biochar a bit, and did a video about making it. But haven't tested it enough to really evaluate its utility in the relatively good soils that we have here. I do need to do more explorations, hopefully next year.
Hi Bruce, always keen to see what you're up to. I'm currently reading the book JADAM Korean natural farming. It's very interesting. At about 9 minutes in video you said the bags of amended compost had an ammonia smell. I have found that homages or biochar stop this casing off and hold that nitrogen in the compost for your plants rather than being lost to the atmosphere. Happy gardening
People have touted compost as a Wonder fertilizer for the garden but I have found that it is mostly a soil conditioner. I have been making compost with high nitrogen content the last couple of years and still have to add more fertility.
I do know people who have lots of success with just compost, but I suspect they are in really good soil to begin with, so compost is only needed to top things up. I know more people who struggle with just compost.
I have experimented with nitrogen fixating bacteria facilitated in legumes, I successfully kept a cutting of my cash crop happy without any supplemental nitrogen by planting a bean in the same container and watering in with multiple confirmed nitrogen fixator bacteria in at the initial planting
The root bulbs were definitely being ate by the cash crops roots, I don't know from experience if it's useful in a bed but growing something like, legumes, comfrey and alfalfa as a pure source of green for any compost is beneficial if you can accommodate for them at a large enough scale without it being detrimental
I'd be running the homemade inputs through a woodchipper or shredder. Soak that in a urine/nitrogen bath and then mix it into the municipal compost. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
You can fetment your conventional fertilizers with EM which helps to prevent nitrogen leaching and being reduced to ammonia or N2 gas. Similar approach that you are doing.
I wonder if local historians or indeed educational institutions might reveal what people did in the past to improve/ amend local soils? For example, on late my father’s Croft in Donegal they had lime kilns to burn lime to add to acidic soils there to amend the ph value. Finally,would a cement mixer help with the tedium of mixing bags of compost?
I would appreciate comments on the effects of inorganic fertiliser on soil microbes and why you discounted them. For instance, I understand that their high acidity is deleterious.
You've gone from one extreme to the other, whereas Bruces approach is somewhere in between. Soil microbes are not damaged or killed off by inorganic inputs. What does cause dead and acidic soil is disrupting it by mechanical means, not adding any organic matter whatsoever and relying on 100% chemical input.
The approach I took of adding these fertilisers to the compost was partially to avoid that kind of disruption to the soil biology. Once the biology within the compost has done its thing, everything I added will be fully incorporated into the organic material, so there would not be the same kind of disruption. That is the idea at least.
Another great video. Thank you I'm a believer that adding variety of amendments is a key for a healthy soil and plants. I use mixture od different composts, egg shells, wood ash and biochare, horse, cow and chicken manure, homade hummus, sand, clay soil, coffee grains and leaf mold. Sometime I add a bit of commercial fertilizer if I see any issues. Those natural "fertilizers" add not just one element, but a complex of minerals, bacterias, fungus and microorganisms to the garden. Our soils lacking trace minerals, our bodies too, so why add just very basic trio of them?(NPK)? Synthetic feltilizers are handy tools, perfect for an instant impact, but in long run they're not the best solution. Greetings
Agree! Variety is great, and relying on just one form is probably going to cause problems. But also, not dealing with deficiencies in our soil and compost can also cause problems. This second part seems to be the tough one for some people to come to terms with.
2 thumbs up! Would be cool to see soil and biological tests before/after! Because "municipal compost" is so dry, you might consider adding the water and inoculant tea to each layer as you build the pile. Using the super sack bags got me thinking about putting a coil of drip hose in the bottom of the bag, it might work as a way to add air to the mix periodically with a compressor, thus potentially speeding it all up. Are there enough animals in the compost? If not I'd add green waste and living compost along with the fossil fuel fertiliser whenever possible to reduce the amount of fertiliser needed. This should make it a better environment for worms etc.. How hot do the bags get? Would they be good heat sources for the tunnels?
Yes, it would be really cool to do soil and biology tests before and after! Operating a bit blind here, with only intuition and the apparent health of the plants to go on. This compost comes reasonably moist a lot of the time, I think it sits in the local yard in the rain for a while. But watering is necessary some times. I have never noticed it getting hot, even after adding the fertility. It would be good to add air as you say, and I think there might be a hybrid approach where I layer it in with leaves and fertility in a broad pile on a tarp, to allow more air in. And turn it around a few times to mix it in and give it time to re-decompose.
I agree that there are ways to make soil better. Imho look into 2 people/organizations 1st is Elaine Ingham and 2nd is KNF. As they both teach that the biggest missing thing for soil is the fungal component of soil you might also want to look into bread yeast as yeast is fungal.
I have looked into both, and tried to follow Elaine's approach but felt I was operating blind as didn't have a microscope or the skills to understand what I was looking at.
I shouldn't worry too much about rain washing nutrients out of the compost, as it's largely insoluble until the organic material has been completely broken down. The added fertiliser is a different matter but even so, they rarely wash in deeper than 10-15cm.
I almost always prefer to add those fertilizers, to my compost pile. I do try and avoid that big swing when adding directly to my planting. Shame that there isn't space to make a batch of compost a year in advance. Being able to let it mature for a much longer time, would probably help. Of course, space is the biggest issue, there.
Everyone uses slurry pits, so manure is not so available. And there have been issues with herbicide residues killing vegetable gardens locally, so I stay away from that industry.
Do you have problems with cabbage loopers or worms? If so, how do you deal with it? I tried insect netting this year, which worked well until the plants outgrew it, and a hailstorm destroyed it. The price for one season isn't viable...
What about the financial cost of buying all that municipal compost and fertiliser ? Will these fertilisers be washed into the water coarse eventually ? Didn’t look a very natural way to feed the soil to me and I’m sceptical as to whether all these so called organic additives and amendments are really necessary for tasty, nutrient dense food, thanks for showing the lengths you’re going to, very interesting
Good to be sceptical. I use to believe that I could produce lots of tasty and nutrient dense food without amendments like this, but I didn't know then how poorly my crops were growing, compared to what I have been able to produce more recently. Now I am sceptical when people claim this is possible. The compost costs €75 for a large bag delivered. The amendments cost an additional €15 (if I buy bulk).
@ if it’s your hobby then I would say that’s fairly cheap compared to others and if you enjoy gardening and growing food, from plot to plate in a matter of minutes, you just can’t buy that freshness in the shops ,, best wishes and Thankyou for taking the time to make these videos and for replying
@@lisag9493 Yes, I do think it is a reasonable price for people who are growing for themselves. For commercial operations, it is a different thing. Thanks!
Per cubic meter bag it is €75 for the compost, and about €15 for the amendments (bought in bulk quantities). So €90, which is expensive enough, but the €15 and a bit of work makes it more valuable.
Your open minded hybrid approach is very similar to mine overall, I've modified someone's 'no-dig' approach to suit my conditions and it's working really well. I've even used herbicides in small and careful quantities to kill off nearby grass and weeds. As my compost ingredients are chosen and collected by me to make it I feel the end product has enough N, but it's good to see your alternative approach working with you, for what you need. I wonder what it's done to the taste, nutrient and vitamin content of the produce? Given what you've done, probably not a lot. I'm always uncomfortable with the term 'conventional fertilizer'! I have to stop and think what is meant by it as before synthetics we were using organic.
I do wonder how this compost a few months after being amended, would compare to a mature compost initially made with a lot more nitrogen rich material. As you say, does it make a difference to the plants? I do think that not amending it was causing problems for the plants not getting the nutrients they need. Yeah, 'conventional fertiliser' is not a great term.
I do test. We have a high pH calcareous soil, with a base pH of about 7.6 to 7.8, which is virtually impossible to reduce without adding a huge amount of sulphur. But I can still grow some great vegetables.
I feel like the nitrogen you have to go really easy on because some plants need a lot less of it and others need a lot more. It's easy to run into problems when balancing nutrients. growing pains I guess hahaha
1. does the synthetic fertilizer kill the microbiology in the soil? 2. are you concerned about the PFOAS, Foreverchemicals & microplastics / fillers in : a. the municipal compost b. your own compost c. the fillers of the fertilizers
1. I think adding anything potent to the soil will cause some disruption, including some of the microbes being killed off, and in some cases shift the soil chemistry into a something less habitable. This could be too much synthetic fertiliser, or fresh manure, but so much depends on the context and the capacity of the soil to buffer against this input, and how often it is done. But yes, disrupting the soil biology too much is one of the reasons that I prefer to avoid adding synthetic fertiliser to the soil. That is why I am adding it to the compost first, with the belief that within a few weeks or months, that fertiliser will be properly incorporated into the biology of the compost and be indistinguishable from the same nutrients added from a more natural source. 2. It is a worry, and not something I know enough about. I do suspect that there is possibly more in my own compost, because of the range of different thing that end up in the compost, than there would be in the municipal compost (from this company at least) or in the fertilisers.
@@REDGardens thanks for your answer. I'm inclined to believe the same on #1 and add synthetic refined fertilizers on occasion. I like the idea of buffering it in advance through your municipal compost I got 70 yards of omri certified municipal compost only to find it littered with plastics visible to the naked eye. From Lego to q tips fractured lighters and so on. I ended up on a deep dive learning about how plants can absorb these plastics and then we consume them. They are actually having a terrible effect on our biology. Now I am more concerned with limiting plastic than anything. I have since found a plastic free source of compost but truly believe we need to find ways to generate our own economically and believe nitrogen harvesting from the atmosphere with technology that is in development will contribute to that goal towards self sufficient efficient community food production.
Interesting experiment. Like you say, it does feel like cheating to mix in artificial fertilizers. But the concept of enriching woody, burnt compost is an interesting one! I have a big pile of woodchips that I've been wondering how I can add urine to without offending my neighbors. I think urine-soaked woodchips has the potential to be the ultimate composting system, in terms of economy and feasibility. It's the two most affordable (free) and readily available ingredients for making compost, in greater quantities than most people need, yet I very rarely hear people talking about it. Still too much taboo around pee? Lack of practical solutions for collecting and storing it in a sanitary way? (I have an idea involving a big plastic drum, a HepVo valve, a siphon pump and time…)
The ring woodchip combination does sound interesting. Not thought I had is that a lot of the initial decomposition of woodchip can be done by fungus, rather than bacteria. So I wonder if the fungus would be helped or hindered by the extra nitrogen, or if it means that there is more of a balance between the fungal and bacterial decomposition. Somthing I'd like to know more about.
whether you use artificial or organic fertilizers theirs not difference the plants dont care, at the end of the day use what you want. Both are effective tools you need to use what your soil needs.
@@pilsplease7561 There are several issues with artificial fertilizers. They're resource intensive to manufacture and transport, and vulnerable to supply chain disruptions. I'd much rather depend on my own urine production, which is an excellent fertilizer. But yes, it's more or less the same for the plants and soil life, also the harmful effects if used incorrectly.
@@ximono Most of them are actually low energy they are created through being a side product created when making another product. Nitrogen fertilizers are a example, and gypsum is literally a product created that would otherwise be a waste product from industrial processes.
@@pilsplease7561 I wouldn't say it's low energy. Nitrogen requires plenty of energy (mainly fossil fuels) to produce. That's part of the reason for its price increase. Potassium and phosphorus is mined. Processing and transportation must also be taken into account. Urine is pissed where you're standing.
Why not grow some mushrooms on the unprocessed municipal compost that still need some time to be ready for garden? Just amend it with whatever the shrooms need, water it, innoculate, cover it, poke some holes into the large bags and into the top cover and then just wait for the first crop.
I suggest that your compost is anerobic at worst with all those additions, and then bacterial dominant at best. The ammonia is a sign of anerobic conditions, and could be growing pathogenic organisms, so extreme care is required.
Hmm, interesting thoughts. I know that in regular composting that smell indicate trouble. In this case I added the ammonia, rather than it being produced by the biology, so I am not sure it is the same situation. But something to be mindful of.
@REDGardens to be honest, adding fertiliser to compost is completely foreign to me. But, if you are smelling ammonia gas, it is anerobic from my training and experience. If you are wanting to increase the N content and reheat the pile, you need bacteria food at about 10% ratio At that scale, like you stated, use the green grass, etc, blood and bone, chook manure, spent brew waste. It will need to be turned/aerated. That looks like a big job though. Otherwise, lay it out as mulch to the beds, apply the product, and stir in. Also look at cover crops. Once you see abundant earthworms, you are heading in the right direction
Yeah, that is a fair assessment of compost that is actively decomposing, I have experienced it. In this case, the compost was not anaerobic, at least not in the way I have found, the smell of ammonia was coming from aerated pockets of compost that I had put too much ammoniacal nitrogen in, because I didn't mix it all up well enough.
Be careful using those bags. I had bought biochar that was in those bags, 2 months out in the sun and the whole bag ripped into microplastics. Definetly get rid of those bags asap. Granted i am in the desert, but still. It will break down.
biocomplete compost don't need other soil improver, if your soil is in good condition.I'd not call it an organic or worse regenerative approch.Anyway chemicals give results, no doubts about i the problem is what will happen after.I'd rather buy vegetables in a supermarket that grow it in this way.
The trouble is getting biocomplete compost, and what happens if your soil isn't great. This is what many people have to deal with, so I think it is important to explore how to make the best of not great conditions or resources.
dont know how mutch time you have watching yt.but robert palvis\garden fundamentals, gardening in canada, joseph loofthouse and david the good, may have som intresting vids for you, that you kan pick your brain against, tru winter if you get bored:) joseph and david had a intresting vid about landracing\adopting gardening, for an eksampel, a few days ago.
I have heard the opposite in our soils, but these are calcareous soils, and I can imagine in some other soil that problem can occur. Context is everything.
Re: conventional fertilizer. Very important discussion and glad you're delving into it. It can be contentious. Highly recommend giving this video a watch which basically argues that using this form of fertilizer is the wiser choice ua-cam.com/video/3GjbnchPhl8/v-deo.html Its a material that can be used carelessly and destructively but it can also be used consciously and in tandem with soil building practices I personally dont use it because my customers dont want it used but hopefully in the future people will take a more nuanced view
Yup, you can build great soil and get great crops with chemical fertilizer as long as you have lots of organic inputs too. I’ve done it with lots of worms and rich black hummus in one season, after mostly sandy soil. However dose is key, I use 1/4 recommended dose of liquid chemical nutrient.
I use both organic or synthetic i dont care, i use what is needed to correct issues. Each is a tool use them. Going organic is not safer, if anything organic usually can have higher levels of heavy metals than synthetic.
Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff. I share a lot of the thoughts but also learned a lot. I do think there is a lot of space to explore a more hybrid approach, with more nuance as you say, and that is one of the main reasons that I have been exploring this stuff.
You really do make great videos. I'd be wary of long term effects of conventional fertilizer. It will reduce specific microbes and hyphae especially over time. Can I recommend a book? Read "what our food eats". It paints a broad picture that this soil scientist can't ignore.
Thanks. Yes, I also think this is an important issue. Much of the damage caused by fertilisers like this is from repeated use over many years, and applying too much, and there being no way to rebuild organic matter. Often used together with excessive tilling. These are good reasons to avoid relying too much on it. But I am interested in exploring the ways that we can use this stuff more carefully, to benefit our soils and crops without that damage, in combination with more 'regenerative' practices.
@@lksf9820Unfortunately this is not true. If a plant can get specific nutrients without the need to produce root exudates the microbes over time will abandon the area. It takes many years and an intentional effort to rebuild. Often there will still be microbes but more of a monoculture rather than a full ecosystem.
Your videos are amazing. Informative, based on real experience, no fuss/hype, good voice and the right length. I've been an avid grower for 8 seasons and I'm mind blown that this channel has only recently come to my attention.
he does neat stuff all the time. 👍
Wow, thanks! Really glad you found my channel!
Very well said. I’ve been watching this channel for quite some time, and it’s a shame that it’s not more prominent in the YT algorithm. There’s plenty of hype and clickbait out there, but I look forward to the thoughtful content Bruce produces.
Your creative and scientific approach is inspiring
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Appreciate your no non-sense practical approach to solving issues and your ability to talk about it for the everyday person.
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I think this is a very interesting and intelligent approach. And not at all opposed to a regenerative, organic, or sustainable ideal.
It's definitely not regenerative, nor organic.
For many people practicing regenerative or organic growing, using the conventional fertilisers like this would be out of the question, either because of certification restrictions, or a desire to completely avoid this type of stuff. I am still not easy with it, but I think this kind of approach can be a really useful solution for some situations, so worth exploring.
Good for you Bruce. I've bee an on and off market gardener for almost 50 years. I started in the 70's as an organic zealot but over the years have come to see that there's a lot more to it than that. I've been down almost exactly the same path as you the last few years, buying in tons of municipal compost only to find iit was very lacking in nitrogen. I started out adding urea and it worked well. Did you know that when you look at chicken manure the white part is urea, the exact same stuff that comes in the big plastic bag? Birds don't urinate, so they concentrate and crystallize their waste nitrogen into pure urea. i'm lucky I can buy pelleted chicken manure much cheaper than you, $8 us for 25 kilos, so i've just been buying that in bulk and adding it with good results, but i have a good stash of urea on hand in case I can't get the pellets.
i have a lot of people come to me to ask gardening questions, and one of the first things i tell them is 'don't let ideology guide your gardening', look at the results. BTW, if you haven't read Steve Solomon's book 'The intelligent Gardener', read it, it opened my eyes to many things about growing food.
thank you
Good to know I am not alone in this! 😁
I didn't know that about bird manure, very interesting!
Over here, the chicken manure pellets are quite expensive, €34 including delivery. And with only 4% nitrogen it would take a whole 25kg bag to bring in 1kg of nitrogen. With the urea, it would take just over 2kg to bring in the same amount of nitrogen, at a cost of about €2 (if buying 50kg bags). Of course there would also be about 1/3 kg of phosphorous in the 25kg bag of chicken manure pellets, but that cost me only another €2 when I buy in a big bag of superphosphate. So, just looking at those two main nutrients I want to add, it seems about 8 times more expensive to buy chicken manure pellets, compared to the bulk conventional stuff I can get locally, assuming I can make use of or sell off the rest of the fertiliser. When I do the calculations like that, it helps me get over some of the biases I have had about using the conventional fertilisers!
I have read Steve's books. Very interesting stuff, and he really allowed me to contemplate going down this path.
It's that time of year again where I'm settled in for a long winters nap and watching garden vids when they pop up. My seeds are ready, the grow room fully stocked and waiting and compost piles frozen till April/May sometime when I'll start shaving off what I can from the top for those early crops. Thanks for the vid and good luck next year, may it be as good as mine was this year. Happy gardening everyone.
I feel like you're slowly perfecting the techniques that would be best for the "black plot" style garden with your amendments to the municipal compost. I've always liked the scientific approach you have to this which allows us to see the details and apply/adapt the knowledge to our own situations. You now have an abundance of slightly too fertile compost - nearly perfect for some situations.
Thanks for that comment, it means a lot! 😁
I do think there is something to this more hybrid approach and I am interested to see how things develop next year.
I never thought that I would worry so much about soil enrichment. Walks on the beach turn into small bags of seaweed searches for my compost heap. Opportunities are often in my mind, this blog does give direction along with more thought about my small st scale growing. Thank you.
Birdy
😁 It is so interesting how our minds shift to those opportunities to gather up biomass or fertility!
I drive my wife crazy by bringing home all kinds of (re)usable materials. However I never would have thought of collecting seaweed. Bravo!
Many of us worm farmers also add amendments destined for our gardens to our worm farms. I really appreciate all the effort you put in to your videos!
~ Sandra
that does seem like a good approach. Thanks!
It's a pleasure to see your dark and fluffy soil, In my garden I have heavy clay soil and something is very difficult grow something in this soil, I add lot of organic matter but every time it seems not enough
We are fortunate to have this kind of soil to work with.
@REDGardens I think one of the most important advantages of not having clay soil is the possibility of digging and transplanting vegetables every month of the year! Unfortunately, from mid-October onwards I cannot dig the soil because it becomes too wet and you don't get any good results from digging when this is the case, on the contrary, it worsens the structure of the soil! From October to March I can't dig, then it depends on the year! Two years ago we had a very dry winter and in March we could already till (which had never happened before) while the spring of 2024 was very rainy until mid-June and this delayed the transplanting of all the summer vegetables: tomatoes, aubergines , courgettes, peppers, pumpkins etc... If you grow things for work, a 5 month window in which you can't transplant anything is really too much! I do it as a hobby, but I'm still looking for a way to get around the problem and be able to grow something every month of the year! Unfortunately, building raised beds and filling them with 20cm of compost worked less well than I hoped, in summer you have to water a lot more and I often lack nutrients because the plants remain smaller than those transplanted into the soil, finally under 20cm of compost a very compact layer of clay is formed which is difficult for the roots to penetrate and the water passes through the layer of compost and when it reaches the layer of clay it is not absorbed and slides laterally to the sides of the raised bed favoring the growth of weeds in the walkways! Maybe I'll try again next year and change something
@@francescodotto4007 I've seen a few videos of growers praising their clay-rich soil with just an application of compost and saying they'd prefer clay-rich soil to sandy soil. Perhaps the key is maintaining the right amount of moisture in the compost so that the biology is maintained and can work on mixing the clay soil and compost together. One possible way of doing that might be by covering the compost with plastic tarps. Heavy duty ones that last more than one or two seasons. And watering before covering and checking from time to time that it stays moist. Of course you then need to either buy your plants or sow in module trays and then plant out in holes in the tarps. This way would also limit the amount of digging you need to do. In any case good luck next season!
@@al3xf103 To maintain the right humidity in summer and not have to water too often, the best thing is to mix the compost with the first cm of soil and grow directly in the soil enriched with compost and covered with mulch, instead, at the end of summer, for autumn and winter transplants, after digging to de-compact the soil at the end of summer, the best thing to do is to spread a layer (about 10cm) of compost and plant directly in that without tilling to mix it with the soil! Thank you for your help, I will try next year
I'm drinking my tea, waiting for spring/summer .. 🌞🌞
cold brew in the fridge for three days 😘👌
me too!
Excellent experimenting -- Thank you for your work!!!
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Always great content here! I have experimented quite a bit with urine in grazing pastures and the results are impressive. I hope your gentle hints here inspire people to stop flushing fertility down the toilet. Its the worst thing you can do with your urine
It's insane when you think about it. Our bodies produce high quality fertilizer, and we go and mix it with potable water and faeces and send it down pipes to huge treatment plants, if we don't flush it into rivers. Sometimes I can't believe how dumb we are.
I recycle most of my coffee, beer & wine through my compost bays.
Seriously considering a composting toilet to make stuff to use on my shrubs & flower beds.
Thanks! Yeah, we need more urine capture and use, and I do try to mention it regularly, to try to normalise people to the idea.
I believe you are right about the fact that the muncipal compost is generally low in readily available plant nutrients. Here in Denmark, households and business can dump off waste including garden waste in recycling stations. The garden waste is then transported to a central composting facility, where it is put through the fast thermophilic composting in a matter of weeks. The waste from gardens is mostly woody material like hedge trimmings, branches and trimming from trees and only a smaller fraction consisting of high C:N ratio materials like grass clippings and green leaves.
So, that the resulting compost being relatively high C:N ratio makes a lot of sense. I have used a lot of this compost which is offered for free in my municipality and I have long had a suspiscion of it being not quite enough to supply plant throughout a growing season.
I even have run a small experiments with small tomato plants prickled to pure municipality compost in pots inside the house and they run out of nitrogen only after a few weeks. Despite this, the information supplied on the compost will even tell you to "dilute" the compost with garden soil as they claim it is too nutrient dense and will cause damage to plants if growing directly in this compost. That is clearly not my experience, and your experience and thoughts is even more motivation to try and find means to compensate for the deficiencies in municipal compost.
Sounds like very similar stuff to what I can get, though I think this stuff has a bit more nitrogen availability. if it is clean, and you can get it for free, it might make sense to amend it with whatever high nitrogen stuff you can get, and other nutrients, and turn it into a more valuable thing.
Ensuring your ferts get chelated with humates will be a game changer in your garden.
Love your work. 👊
nerd
The best kind of nerd!
Thanks!
Thankyou for taking the time to share your knowledge and experiences.
Most appreciated 😊👍.
I tend to agree. Manmade fertilizers are a useful thing when used responsibly. The real enemy of mine is herbicides, pesticides, and plastic pollution. I have work on an organic market garden, the amount of plastic in the soil is unreal. Organic does not always mean clean
Really love your work, thank you for making these videos about your successes (and failures!)
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Seems like we need a Calvin peeing on the compost pile stickers.
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Love your criticism and analysis of your own work. It is so helpful when trying out my OWN tests. Sometime though, I think your criticism is too rough, as you are panning your absolutely WONDERFUL looking crops! 😊
Thanks! I try to be real about it all, but then I go and only show the shots of the gardens and plants when they are looking awesome, and not the areas that are struggling! 😁
Love your videos!
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thanks so much for the quality of your videos. Not all the time easy to access ( i'm french btw), but very impressive and with a lot to learn in it !
😁 I heard that UA-cam is starting an automatic dubbing feature, so that might help with the translation.
@@REDGardens it's robotic and with no charme, it makes it so weird !
You could argue that this is an organic growing method because no artificial fertilizer actually gets to the plants. It (theoretically) all gets bound up as organic compounds in the compost during the month of fermentation. It's certainly a slow-release fertilizer.
Yeah, I can see that. The boundary between organic and non-organic is an interesting and tricky one. The more I learn and explore, the more unsure I am about it all.
@REDGardens Bruce - I wouldn’t be so concerned about the difference, N is N whatever the source and you are taking the best steps to make it plant available. I like the comment above chelating with humates, it’s level 10 nerd, but it makes sense.
Thank you dear for excellent information
I have raised beds. I amend my soil with vegetable/fruit waste from the grocery store. I dig in the food waste and chop up the veggies with a shovel to get as much contact to the soil as possible. I sprinkle in fertilizer and soak well. I keep the area moist and within 2 weeks the waste is all gone and the soil is much improved. I keep doing this to the soil whenever I have a spot without plants. I find a huge improvement to the soil and I don't have to turn a heavy compost pile.
That kind of approach does make sense. Do you have issues with rodents or other animals?
As always Bruce, brilliant advice.. i have been buying expensive mushroom compost.. You notice the growth spurt within days. However now thanks to your insight.. Going to save some cash and grab some municipal low grade compost and enhance it with some organic inputs. Thank m8.. your a garden Yoda.
Have you considered using a cement mixer for greater uniformity - that is if you have access to electricity?
As I was watching I thought exactly the same.
Interesting idea.
Or at least mixing in the bags a bit, those looked like good layers of amendments. I add amendments as I make a pile so that they benefit from the one or two turns I will do.
12:15. Compost tea action! If you buy in material more now, buy in the highest quality worm castings as possible that isn’t old. Good luck on your journey.
Not sure I can get worm castings anywhere around here, but started my own worm bin recently.
Thanks Bruce .
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I've always looked at vegetable gardening as an experiment that begins anew every spring. I keep the techniques that seemed to have worked in past seasons, and try new ones that appear potentially hopeful.
thank you four work!
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Fascinating, great work. I don't know enough about what effects unbalanced nutrients have in regards to it being plant available, but I'm aware this is true. I've often considered this procedure of applying nutrients to the compost to try and mitigate this situation. Somehow making more of the stuff available before it gets stopped or blocked by the unbalance. I suppose I should just get my soil tested, but need to crack the code on that one. This year, I'm adding at least something to the compost.
Ill leave it at if you want to know more, read the Intelligent Gardener by Steve Solomon hes very wise and his book seriously breaks down what unbalanced soils do. I am friends with steve and talk with him regularly.
@@pilsplease7561 Thanks for the tip
It is a hard thing to get into, but as with the other comment, I found Steve Solomon to be really helpful.
Great vidoe, and it deals with something I‘ve been grappling with for quite a while. It is actualy one of my bug bears with Charles Dowding who - grows fantastic vegetable - and always recommends using compost only, But his compost isn‘t just garden compost, like I have, but has significant amounts of composted horse/cattle manure and spent muchroom compost, all things that have quite a bit more nitrogen than just garden compost. So it‘s very interesting and helpful seeing videos like this one.
Yeah, it is a concern of mine as well. I have no doubt that you can grow great vegetables using Charles' no dig method with only compost, but I think you really do need good compost, made with plenty of high nitrogen material, and good soil.
This year i have been using free municipal compost as a brown in my bins. Just adding to local greens from the garden/yard/house, split with wood chips from a 2 year old pile. Ended up getting about 5 cu yd of wildflower prarie growth mixed in with it.
Nice. I might try that as well.
I greatly appreciate the RED Gardens approach of being dedicated to pursuing the exploration of what actually works, and of helping us all shed our preconceived notions when appropriate (especially with such an eye for how significantly context can change everything). I am really interested in the further testing of this conscientious blending of the more minimalist/self-produced/organic-purist methods and the more 'modern conventional' additions of municipal compost and concentrated and synthesized fertilizer components - I share many of the same predispositions, eschewing almost all external inputs in favor of inputs that I can produce myself at very low costs (scythed hay, free wood chips, kitchen waste, etc.), but I also think that these often readily accessible external inputs that are more ubiquitous among conventional/non-organic type growers have the potential for very positive impacts if used wisely and sparingly.
As always, grateful for the exploration and education
Thanks for the comment. 😁
I do agree with your points. If I was just growing for myself, and had lots of space, I'd probably fall back onto just making do with what I can produce myself, with occasional amendments. I kind of miss that casual approach.
But so many people don't have access to lots of space, or need to be much more productive in a smaller space. And I think the world is going in a direction that many more people will find themselves in similar situations. It is in this more intensive or resource scarce context that I think the careful hybrid approaches can be really useful, if not essential, and using what is available and cheap to grow a lot of food, while minimising damage, becomes more of the focus.
No matter how many times I try different, miracle grow always seems to grow the best garden.
It seems to be the easy option for many, and if you can get great food with it, why not?
Its great to see this balanced approach Bruce, all too often people become polarised on one side of the argument or the other, no halfway point. After we spoke last year I began using one of the combo amendments myself with very encouraging results, as you say not much in the way of guidelines for small growers but I did discover a few things along the way, avoid clumping around plant roots as may lead to over supply of nitrogen. I also noticed the results can take a while to show in plant health, I try to avoid adding a second scattering if nothing happens as likely a slow release variant.
I would like to buy in compost too, have you come across any issues with PFAS in supplies as this seems to popping up on other UA-cam channels more frequently, lastly if not already aware (probably are) Soil food web by Dr Elaine Ingham, fascinating insight through the microscope into micro organisms, fungi, all the best
Great to hear you have had encouraging results! Going easy and being observant with all this stuff is definitely a good idea 😁
I don't know much about the PFAS issue. I know that the main person at the supplier is really serious about supplying a good product, so hopefully he is taking the precautions. But there are always risks in importing anything into our gardens.
@@REDGardens PFAS are present in glossy printed and recycled cardboard, there is a vid on here about it.
Cool, will definitely check out the compost supplier as my setup is very similar to yours only smaller, PFAS more commonly known as 'forever chemicals' which I think cover some herbicides and pesticides too. amazed to see the real Erin Brockovich (Julia Roberts played her in the movie) running with this.
Erin interviewed which covers topic in depth 'Growing Broke: Forever chemicals', cheers for now
Tempering ideals with practicality is a valuable concept, and one I frequently ignore! I get excited about organic, no dig, high biotic, hyper local, etc etc and basics like soil testing or balancing C:N get lost.
Well said.
Very cool. If that whole bucket was per bag, seemed a far bit to me, but potentially that was a lot of seaweed meal. One of my techniques is to do multiple applications a few weeks apart and see how plants respond. Changing the amount I dress the plants with accordingly. If the plants seem a little burnt, I drop it down a bit but not much because you kind of want to be in that spot right below burning ha. One thing I would say is the reason commercial fertilisers often put warnings about feeding grass paddocks where cattle graze is due to the amounts of mercury or other heavy metals present in the industrially created fertiliser. A problem where it's concentrated in cattle due to the large amount of veg they eat. Not so much in the vegetable garden potentially? Very cool experiments once again from this channel. Love it!
Thanks 😁
It was only a part bucket, but still a fair amount of fertiliser and seaweed meal.
Thanks for the warning about heavy metals, not something I know anything about.
Interesting take as usual. I have lots of leaves, grass and high carbon stuff, but not enough nitrogen, so I buy urea, dissolve it in water (around 2%) and water my compost with it. It really helps with temps and speed, and the nitrogen is available right away when I apply the compost. I'm not certified organic, but it works for me
That sounds like a good approach. I think it would have been better if I had dissolved all the soluble fertiliser in water first before adding it to the compost.
Thank you for sharing your careful and considered thoughts and avoiding falling into the religious fervour cult like attitudes that are so common.
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Great video. Have you used bio char? The documentary on terra preta (black earth} in the amazon is thought provoking too. Subsequent studies and papers make good reading. Feeding the living soil biology and giving them a good home is important . Its their by-products that can feed plants too. Very similar to our own gut micro-biome.
There have been no scientific studies done on bio char, it's another 'Emperors new clothes' fad. It'll also make his soil even more alkali.
I have used biochar a bit, and did a video about making it. But haven't tested it enough to really evaluate its utility in the relatively good soils that we have here. I do need to do more explorations, hopefully next year.
Hi Bruce, always keen to see what you're up to. I'm currently reading the book JADAM Korean natural farming. It's very interesting. At about 9 minutes in video you said the bags of amended compost had an ammonia smell. I have found that homages or biochar stop this casing off and hold that nitrogen in the compost for your plants rather than being lost to the atmosphere. Happy gardening
I mean homages not homages....bloody predictive AI
And there it goes again..... HUMATES ....
Great content
Thanks
awsome test
Thank you!
People have touted compost as a Wonder fertilizer for the garden but I have found that it is mostly a soil conditioner. I have been making compost with high nitrogen content the last couple of years and still have to add more fertility.
I do know people who have lots of success with just compost, but I suspect they are in really good soil to begin with, so compost is only needed to top things up. I know more people who struggle with just compost.
I have experimented with nitrogen fixating bacteria facilitated in legumes, I successfully kept a cutting of my cash crop happy without any supplemental nitrogen by planting a bean in the same container and watering in with multiple confirmed nitrogen fixator bacteria in at the initial planting
The root bulbs were definitely being ate by the cash crops roots, I don't know from experience if it's useful in a bed but growing something like, legumes, comfrey and alfalfa as a pure source of green for any compost is beneficial if you can accommodate for them at a large enough scale without it being detrimental
You the Scientific Gardener!
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We mix our Municipal Compost 50 50 with Mushroom Compost and it worked straight away as a growing medium
Nice!
I'd be running the homemade inputs through a woodchipper or shredder. Soak that in a urine/nitrogen bath and then mix it into the municipal compost. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
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You can fetment your conventional fertilizers with EM which helps to prevent nitrogen leaching and being reduced to ammonia or N2 gas. Similar approach that you are doing.
Elf magic?
EM?
@@lksf9820 EM-1 refers to a product by the EMRO which is short for effective microorganisms. An anaerobic fermentation starter with many purposes.
I wonder if local historians or indeed educational institutions might reveal what people did in the past to improve/ amend local soils?
For example, on late my father’s Croft in Donegal they had lime kilns to burn lime to add to acidic soils there to amend the ph value.
Finally,would a cement mixer help with the tedium of mixing bags of compost?
A cement mixer would probably help! Though it might be easier to just dissolve the stuff in water and water the compost with that.
Thank you
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I would appreciate comments on the effects of inorganic fertiliser on soil microbes and why you discounted them. For instance, I understand that their high acidity is deleterious.
probably because the microbes can't eat it so the population dies off without food
You've gone from one extreme to the other, whereas Bruces approach is somewhere in between. Soil microbes are not damaged or killed off by inorganic inputs. What does cause dead and acidic soil is disrupting it by mechanical means, not adding any organic matter whatsoever and relying on 100% chemical input.
The approach I took of adding these fertilisers to the compost was partially to avoid that kind of disruption to the soil biology. Once the biology within the compost has done its thing, everything I added will be fully incorporated into the organic material, so there would not be the same kind of disruption. That is the idea at least.
@REDGardens So you believe that the microbes in compost do not have the same vulnerability as those in soil?
Ty
Another great video. Thank you
I'm a believer that adding variety of amendments is a key for a healthy soil and plants. I use mixture od different composts, egg shells, wood ash and biochare, horse, cow and chicken manure, homade hummus, sand, clay soil, coffee grains and leaf mold. Sometime I add a bit of commercial fertilizer if I see any issues. Those natural "fertilizers" add not just one element, but a complex of minerals, bacterias, fungus and microorganisms to the garden. Our soils lacking trace minerals, our bodies too, so why add just very basic trio of them?(NPK)? Synthetic feltilizers are handy tools, perfect for an instant impact, but in long run they're not the best solution. Greetings
Agree! Variety is great, and relying on just one form is probably going to cause problems. But also, not dealing with deficiencies in our soil and compost can also cause problems. This second part seems to be the tough one for some people to come to terms with.
Agreed. Good pragmatic perspective. Even Rudolf Steiner admitted that he utilised super phosphate to quickly address the deficiency.
2 thumbs up!
Would be cool to see soil and biological tests before/after!
Because "municipal compost" is so dry, you might consider adding the water and inoculant tea to each layer as you build the pile. Using the super sack bags got me thinking about putting a coil of drip hose in the bottom of the bag, it might work as a way to add air to the mix periodically with a compressor, thus potentially speeding it all up. Are there enough animals in the compost? If not I'd add green waste and living compost along with the fossil fuel fertiliser whenever possible to reduce the amount of fertiliser needed. This should make it a better environment for worms etc..
How hot do the bags get? Would they be good heat sources for the tunnels?
Yes, it would be really cool to do soil and biology tests before and after! Operating a bit blind here, with only intuition and the apparent health of the plants to go on.
This compost comes reasonably moist a lot of the time, I think it sits in the local yard in the rain for a while. But watering is necessary some times. I have never noticed it getting hot, even after adding the fertility. It would be good to add air as you say, and I think there might be a hybrid approach where I layer it in with leaves and fertility in a broad pile on a tarp, to allow more air in. And turn it around a few times to mix it in and give it time to re-decompose.
I agree that there are ways to make soil better. Imho look into 2 people/organizations 1st is Elaine Ingham and 2nd is KNF. As they both teach that the biggest missing thing for soil is the fungal component of soil you might also want to look into bread yeast as yeast is fungal.
I have looked into both, and tried to follow Elaine's approach but felt I was operating blind as didn't have a microscope or the skills to understand what I was looking at.
I shouldn't worry too much about rain washing nutrients out of the compost, as it's largely insoluble until the organic material has been completely broken down. The added fertiliser is a different matter but even so, they rarely wash in deeper than 10-15cm.
Yeah, it is the added fertiliser I am thinking about.
You can get lots of free coffee grounds from petrol stations which is very high in nitrogen....and other nutrients
The local supply of coffee grounds is used by the owner of the place in their own garden, so not an easy option for me. 🙁
I almost always prefer to add those fertilizers, to my compost pile. I do try and avoid that big swing when adding directly to my planting.
Shame that there isn't space to make a batch of compost a year in advance. Being able to let it mature for a much longer time, would probably help. Of course, space is the biggest issue, there.
Yeah, doing it well in advance would be good!
The priority is surely to grow healthy nutritious food. Anyone who does that, we should learn from.
Agreed.
So great to see you continuing to run trials.
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With beef and dairy farms in the area, what is the experience with cow manure as a nitrogen or phosphorous source?
Everyone uses slurry pits, so manure is not so available. And there have been issues with herbicide residues killing vegetable gardens locally, so I stay away from that industry.
Do you have problems with cabbage loopers or worms? If so, how do you deal with it? I tried insect netting this year, which worked well until the plants outgrew it, and a hailstorm destroyed it.
The price for one season isn't viable...
What about the financial cost of buying all that municipal compost and fertiliser ?
Will these fertilisers be washed into the water coarse eventually ? Didn’t look a very natural way to feed the soil to me and I’m sceptical as to whether all these so called organic additives and amendments are really necessary for tasty, nutrient dense food, thanks for showing the lengths you’re going to, very interesting
Good to be sceptical. I use to believe that I could produce lots of tasty and nutrient dense food without amendments like this, but I didn't know then how poorly my crops were growing, compared to what I have been able to produce more recently. Now I am sceptical when people claim this is possible.
The compost costs €75 for a large bag delivered. The amendments cost an additional €15 (if I buy bulk).
@ if it’s your hobby then I would say that’s fairly cheap compared to others and if you enjoy gardening and growing food, from plot to plate in a matter of minutes, you just can’t buy that freshness in the shops ,,
best wishes and Thankyou for taking the time to make these videos and for replying
@@lisag9493 Yes, I do think it is a reasonable price for people who are growing for themselves. For commercial operations, it is a different thing. Thanks!
What is the finished cost say per yard?
Per cubic meter bag it is €75 for the compost, and about €15 for the amendments (bought in bulk quantities). So €90, which is expensive enough, but the €15 and a bit of work makes it more valuable.
I feed my worms good food scraps,kelp,alfalfa, etc
Your open minded hybrid approach is very similar to mine overall, I've modified someone's 'no-dig' approach to suit my conditions and it's working really well. I've even used herbicides in small and careful quantities to kill off nearby grass and weeds.
As my compost ingredients are chosen and collected by me to make it I feel the end product has enough N, but it's good to see your alternative approach working with you, for what you need.
I wonder what it's done to the taste, nutrient and vitamin content of the produce? Given what you've done, probably not a lot.
I'm always uncomfortable with the term 'conventional fertilizer'! I have to stop and think what is meant by it as before synthetics we were using organic.
I do wonder how this compost a few months after being amended, would compare to a mature compost initially made with a lot more nitrogen rich material. As you say, does it make a difference to the plants? I do think that not amending it was causing problems for the plants not getting the nutrients they need.
Yeah, 'conventional fertiliser' is not a great term.
Do you test your soil for PH levels? The aim is a neutral PH level of 7. Hello from a South Australian Summer!
If you look through his videos you'll see his soil tests. The aim is to get soil Ph to suit whatever crop you're growing.
I do test. We have a high pH calcareous soil, with a base pH of about 7.6 to 7.8, which is virtually impossible to reduce without adding a huge amount of sulphur. But I can still grow some great vegetables.
@@REDGardens
Do you have access to peat and or sulfur to reduce PH if/as needed?
I feel like the nitrogen you have to go really easy on because some plants need a lot less of it and others need a lot more. It's easy to run into problems when balancing nutrients. growing pains I guess hahaha
Yeah, it is something I need to look at more.
1. does the synthetic fertilizer kill the microbiology in the soil?
2. are you concerned about the PFOAS, Foreverchemicals & microplastics / fillers in :
a. the municipal compost
b. your own compost
c. the fillers of the fertilizers
1. No.
1. I think adding anything potent to the soil will cause some disruption, including some of the microbes being killed off, and in some cases shift the soil chemistry into a something less habitable. This could be too much synthetic fertiliser, or fresh manure, but so much depends on the context and the capacity of the soil to buffer against this input, and how often it is done. But yes, disrupting the soil biology too much is one of the reasons that I prefer to avoid adding synthetic fertiliser to the soil. That is why I am adding it to the compost first, with the belief that within a few weeks or months, that fertiliser will be properly incorporated into the biology of the compost and be indistinguishable from the same nutrients added from a more natural source.
2. It is a worry, and not something I know enough about. I do suspect that there is possibly more in my own compost, because of the range of different thing that end up in the compost, than there would be in the municipal compost (from this company at least) or in the fertilisers.
@@REDGardens thanks for your answer. I'm inclined to believe the same on #1 and add synthetic refined fertilizers on occasion. I like the idea of buffering it in advance through your municipal compost
I got 70 yards of omri certified municipal compost only to find it littered with plastics visible to the naked eye. From Lego to q tips fractured lighters and so on.
I ended up on a deep dive learning about how plants can absorb these plastics and then we consume them.
They are actually having a terrible effect on our biology.
Now I am more concerned with limiting plastic than anything. I have since found a plastic free source of compost but truly believe we need to find ways to generate our own economically and believe nitrogen harvesting from the atmosphere with technology that is in development will contribute to that goal towards self sufficient efficient community food production.
Interesting experiment. Like you say, it does feel like cheating to mix in artificial fertilizers. But the concept of enriching woody, burnt compost is an interesting one!
I have a big pile of woodchips that I've been wondering how I can add urine to without offending my neighbors. I think urine-soaked woodchips has the potential to be the ultimate composting system, in terms of economy and feasibility. It's the two most affordable (free) and readily available ingredients for making compost, in greater quantities than most people need, yet I very rarely hear people talking about it. Still too much taboo around pee? Lack of practical solutions for collecting and storing it in a sanitary way? (I have an idea involving a big plastic drum, a HepVo valve, a siphon pump and time…)
The ring woodchip combination does sound interesting. Not thought I had is that a lot of the initial decomposition of woodchip can be done by fungus, rather than bacteria. So I wonder if the fungus would be helped or hindered by the extra nitrogen, or if it means that there is more of a balance between the fungal and bacterial decomposition. Somthing I'd like to know more about.
whether you use artificial or organic fertilizers theirs not difference the plants dont care, at the end of the day use what you want. Both are effective tools you need to use what your soil needs.
@@pilsplease7561 There are several issues with artificial fertilizers. They're resource intensive to manufacture and transport, and vulnerable to supply chain disruptions. I'd much rather depend on my own urine production, which is an excellent fertilizer. But yes, it's more or less the same for the plants and soil life, also the harmful effects if used incorrectly.
@@ximono Most of them are actually low energy they are created through being a side product created when making another product. Nitrogen fertilizers are a example, and gypsum is literally a product created that would otherwise be a waste product from industrial processes.
@@pilsplease7561 I wouldn't say it's low energy. Nitrogen requires plenty of energy (mainly fossil fuels) to produce. That's part of the reason for its price increase. Potassium and phosphorus is mined. Processing and transportation must also be taken into account. Urine is pissed where you're standing.
hmm how cheap is soil testing in your area?
Cant get them locally, or they are too expensive, so I sent soil samples to USA. Will probably test again in the early spring.
@@REDGardens honestly, I think if we subsidized soil sampling world wide it would be life changing for so many medium and small farms.
@@MistressOP I agree!
Why not grow some mushrooms on the unprocessed municipal compost that still need some time to be ready for garden? Just amend it with whatever the shrooms need, water it, innoculate, cover it, poke some holes into the large bags and into the top cover and then just wait for the first crop.
That way you get a good Su-Johnson compost and also some mushrooms pretty much for free.
Interesting idea. I would need to get the stuff a year in advance I guess.
@@REDGardens No, most of them fruit within a few weeks/months.
I suggest that your compost is anerobic at worst with all those additions, and then bacterial dominant at best.
The ammonia is a sign of anerobic conditions, and could be growing pathogenic organisms, so extreme care is required.
Hmm, interesting thoughts. I know that in regular composting that smell indicate trouble. In this case I added the ammonia, rather than it being produced by the biology, so I am not sure it is the same situation. But something to be mindful of.
@REDGardens to be honest, adding fertiliser to compost is completely foreign to me.
But, if you are smelling ammonia gas, it is anerobic from my training and experience.
If you are wanting to increase the N content and reheat the pile, you need bacteria food at about 10% ratio
At that scale, like you stated, use the green grass, etc, blood and bone, chook manure, spent brew waste.
It will need to be turned/aerated. That looks like a big job though.
Otherwise, lay it out as mulch to the beds, apply the product, and stir in. Also look at cover crops.
Once you see abundant earthworms, you are heading in the right direction
Yeah, that is a fair assessment of compost that is actively decomposing, I have experienced it. In this case, the compost was not anaerobic, at least not in the way I have found, the smell of ammonia was coming from aerated pockets of compost that I had put too much ammoniacal nitrogen in, because I didn't mix it all up well enough.
Be careful using those bags. I had bought biochar that was in those bags, 2 months out in the sun and the whole bag ripped into microplastics. Definetly get rid of those bags asap. Granted i am in the desert, but still. It will break down.
oh, that is not good. I am surprised how long these bags do last, and haven't had one disintegrate on me yet.
Some contaminants gets concentrated when composted 🤓🤨
biocomplete compost don't need other soil improver, if your soil is in good condition.I'd not call it an organic or worse regenerative approch.Anyway chemicals give results, no doubts about i the problem is what will happen after.I'd rather buy vegetables in a supermarket that grow it in this way.
The trouble is getting biocomplete compost, and what happens if your soil isn't great. This is what many people have to deal with, so I think it is important to explore how to make the best of not great conditions or resources.
@REDGardens you have to make by yourself, chemicals are not the answer
dont know how mutch time you have watching yt.but robert palvis\garden fundamentals, gardening in canada, joseph loofthouse and david the good, may have som intresting vids for you, that you kan pick your brain against, tru winter if you get bored:) joseph and david had a intresting vid about landracing\adopting gardening, for an eksampel, a few days ago.
gardening in Canada is great. Haven't seen much from David recently, but should check this videos. Thanks.
Cheat codes
A soil specialist recently told m that gypsum binds up nutrients and makes them unavailable.
He's not much of a specialist.
Thats not true
I have heard the opposite in our soils, but these are calcareous soils, and I can imagine in some other soil that problem can occur. Context is everything.
@@REDGardens Calcium tends to be really bad in high amounts in soil and will bind and displace other nutrients.
Re: conventional fertilizer. Very important discussion and glad you're delving into it. It can be contentious. Highly recommend giving this video a watch which basically argues that using this form of fertilizer is the wiser choice ua-cam.com/video/3GjbnchPhl8/v-deo.html Its a material that can be used carelessly and destructively but it can also be used consciously and in tandem with soil building practices
I personally dont use it because my customers dont want it used but hopefully in the future people will take a more nuanced view
Yup, you can build great soil and get great crops with chemical fertilizer as long as you have lots of organic inputs too. I’ve done it with lots of worms and rich black hummus in one season, after mostly sandy soil. However dose is key, I use 1/4 recommended dose of liquid chemical nutrient.
I use both organic or synthetic i dont care, i use what is needed to correct issues. Each is a tool use them. Going organic is not safer, if anything organic usually can have higher levels of heavy metals than synthetic.
Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff. I share a lot of the thoughts but also learned a lot.
I do think there is a lot of space to explore a more hybrid approach, with more nuance as you say, and that is one of the main reasons that I have been exploring this stuff.
I suspect your system lacks biology. Great start though.
You really do make great videos. I'd be wary of long term effects of conventional fertilizer. It will reduce specific microbes and hyphae especially over time. Can I recommend a book? Read "what our food eats". It paints a broad picture that this soil scientist can't ignore.
That only happens when you go 100% synthetic fertiliser and zero 'organic'.
Thanks. Yes, I also think this is an important issue. Much of the damage caused by fertilisers like this is from repeated use over many years, and applying too much, and there being no way to rebuild organic matter. Often used together with excessive tilling. These are good reasons to avoid relying too much on it. But I am interested in exploring the ways that we can use this stuff more carefully, to benefit our soils and crops without that damage, in combination with more 'regenerative' practices.
This is simply not true like a lot of people want you to believe.
@@lksf9820Unfortunately this is not true. If a plant can get specific nutrients without the need to produce root exudates the microbes over time will abandon the area. It takes many years and an intentional effort to rebuild. Often there will still be microbes but more of a monoculture rather than a full ecosystem.