22:53 favorite budget knife steals probably 14C28N. It can be heat treated to hold an edge as long as s30v, is way tougher, and cost less. In a way it's budget Magnacut.
14c28n doesn't hold an edge as long as S30v regardless of how you do it. It does have much more toughness and a bit more corrosion resistance, though. If you can sharpen, and you don't mind sharpening more regularly, then it is likely a better steel choice than steels like S30V or Magnacut anyway.
I bought an R2D2 to use as a work knife a 3-4 years ago and as someone who had never sharpened knives before I bought a Work Sharp Guided Field Sharpener and found it quite easy to put a good sharp edge back on it. Not sure why people believe it to be hard to sharpen.
I've long been a fan of Bob Dozier knives and his primary steel was D2. I have a drawer full of Bob's knives and never had a problem sharpening them. Bob often demonstrated how to sharpen his knives and he used diamond sharpening stones which makes sharpening D2 as easy to sharpen any other steel. Also, over the years my D2 knives have showed very little inclination to rust. Most say it is semi-stainless but it takes very little extra care to keep them rust free. Also, I'm loving the popularity of Magnacut because as the clamor increases, the cost of knives with steels that are just as good (or nearly so--we can argue the point) can often be purchased at a bargain. E.g., l love my red-handled Griptillian in 20CV that I paid (IIRC) around $99 for--a great deal from KCI! I also think that there are enough videos out there now showing that Magnacut can be "chippy" when sharpened to a fine edge so I'm not worshiping at that altar just yet. I have one Magnacut knife and that's a good plenty.
D2 used to be tough to sharpen but with modern Diamond Sharpening Stones for around $50-$60 you can easily sharpen any steel to hair whittling sharp in under a minute. Diamond stones have changed the game. No factory edge is as sharp as one I can make in 60 seconds.
FALSE...D2 was never hard to sharpen because of the stones...and diamonds wont change that.... it was the carbides being so large that they stuck out proud on and edge below 30 degrees and were easily ripped out.
@@rockets4kids Uh, Not hardly! Only in very soft, normally chinese knockoffs of D2. It isn't exactly to the proper specs for D2 nor is it heat treated properly. Nor is the Rat! D2 does NOT lend itself to batch heat threat. KnifeMaker
I have been pleasantly surprised with the RPM-9 I used as a daily. I went into it before knowing much about it, and it's been great. It can punch above its weight, considering it's on $30 knives now.
Good to see the ESEE's on the table. The 5 is a beast. The 6 is best all round. The Junglas is on my wish list.....! Keep up the good work. Education on knife steels is greatly appreciated.
Ontario rocks with their knives, just got their new 1.5 with Magnacut Steel and it comes shaving sharp, after stropping just a little it shaves nicely. For a price tag below a 100 bucks it is a nice addition to anyone's collection.
I love D2. It's one of my absolute favorite budget Steels. I've never had any issues sharpening it on Diamond or bonded Diamond Stones and as long as I clean it and keep it dry after use I have no issues. I'd choose it over almost any other budget Steel
I love d2 and 14c. Quick and easy to sharpen on my diamond stone and take a screaming edge that lasts pretty well. And they don’t cost a fortune. I probably have a dozen thatre d2 and 14c.
I actually like d2 more than 14c. For my use I don't need a whole lot of toughness and I live in a desert so stainlessness is not that important to me. For a budget knife d2 is perfect for me.
D2 is awesome! It's my favorite budget steel, because it holds an edge better than any other budget steel. Get some diamond sharpening plates and it'll sharpen right up.
For yardwork, nothing beats my BK9 to hack small limbs and my 10" Silky saw to cut the bigger stuff. This kit is so handy that I keep it tossed behind my seat in the truck when I am on the road.
No reason to choose D2 when 14C28N has nearly the same wear-resistance and is many times tougher. It's also easier to sharpen. The corrosion resistance is bonus. 14C28N is in the same family as 13C26, AEB-L, and 420HC -- they all have similar properties, though 14C28N is the best of these. Nitro V was meant to be an improved AEB-L but loses a lot of toughness in exchange for a little wear-resistance. 14C28N manages to gain both wear-resistance and corrosion resistance, all without losing any toughness.
KnifeSteelNerds fame Dr. Larrin Thomas rates D2 at 5 for edge retention, and 14c28n at 3. If you don't need very thin geometry, or to beat on the knife, then you don't need the extra toughness of 14c28n. If you don't need the corrosion resistance of 14c28n, like if you get coated D2, then the D2 is the better bet. For folding knives, coated D2 is leagues better than 14c28n, with specialty exceptions for things like razor blades or knives to beat on.
@@phil2082 KnifeSteelNerds fame Dr. Larrin Thomas is basing this on the CATRA test which only measures wear resistance. The CATRA test doesn't measure wear through micro-fracture, which is the more common method of fulling out in the real world. It also doesn't account for the fact that 14C28N can be run at lower apex angles.
A lot of knife makers seem to prefer to work with AEB-L, i think it may be just because theyve learnt their skill using it and know it very well. I totally agree that 14C28N is superior to NitroV in every way, Im really not liking how it is being adopted over 14C by so many companies in the last year or two.
Love the fidget factor of the cormorant, however I just got one of the Tetris patterns and it is a pocket shredder. Tried to loosen the clip and it broke, luckily Kizer is sending a free replacement, but I’m looking for any mod ideas on how to mitigate how much it shreds my pocket. Any suggestions are much appreciated!
Spyderco's premier steel used to be VG-10, and Benchmade's was D2 or 154CM. I still like them and even 440C or ATS34. I find the heat treatment varies on D2. For some reason I don't trust M390 or N690. I am just a casual user/collector.
Great point David, steels that have moved down-market still cut everything they did before. Was good then, still is now. Along a related note though, one of my favorite party tricks is to cut open steel cans using my pocket knife. Please hear me out before lecturing me on "How Not to Treat Your Knife." Many knives, from about mid-grade on up, are made from tool steels that were designed to cut or shape metal, including other steels. If the tool steel was designed for this duty, what's the harm? So here's the question: What are some alloys and/or geometric features that would make a knife tolerant of this so-called abuse? (P.S. I'm grown up enough not to try to make warranty claims if I do something clearly stupid...)
My go to backyard knife these days is the Terava Skrama 240 and it would take a lot for another knife to take its place. It's kind of a shame that S45VN didn't get more time to saturate the knife industry before it got its lunch eaten by Magnacut. 80CrV2 is my favourite budget steel. The biggest problem with D2 is that it isn't as forgiving when you shovel hundreds of them into the oven at the same time, where you'll end up with a bunch of blades getting bad heat treatments. I'll take the AUS8 or AUS10 variant over the D2 for that reason. I have zero problems with lower production number D2 knives though.
By the numbers: Using the numbers from Dr. Larrin Thomas of KnifeSteelNerds fame: D2 is at 3.5 for toughness, 5 for edge retention, and 4.5 for corrosion resistance. So: Toughness / edge retention / corrosion resistance D2 is at 3.5 / 5 / 4.5 14c28n is 9 / 3 / 8.5 420HC is 9 / 2.5 / 8 8cr13mov is 6 / 3 / 7 Super steels, to compare: M390/20cv at 3.5 / 6.5 / 9 S90V is way up at 3.5 / 9 / 7.5 S30V is at 4 / 6 / 7.5 S35VN at 5 / 5 / 7.5 Magnacut at 7 / 5 / 9.5 D2 is the same edge retention as Magnacut and S35VN. It has less toughness, which means it is worse for thin geometry or beating on, which doesn't matter for normal folding knives. It has less corrosion resistance, which just means you should use coated D2. Basically, coated D2 is as good as uncoated Magnacut and S35VN for a folding knife. Coated D2 is very close to S30V, and is closer to 20CV than it is to 14c28n for edge retention. If you need to beat on a fixed blade, D2 is not better than other options. If you need to have corrosion resistance, D2 is not the best. If you don't rust knives (or you get coated D2), and you are using a folder, then you should probably go for cheap coated D2 over expensive magnacut or S35vn.
I've not had great luck with D2 holding an edge. Have a good sharpener and can put a hair shaving edge on the most recent D2 steel knife purchased from you guys. Only use it to open boxes and cut tape mostly and the edge still fades faster than I think it should (me thinking can be dangerous). Just bought a Kershaw knife with Magnacut blade. Will see if it does better in my applications.
I was trying to make an Altoid survival kit. What do you think would be some of the best knives you could put in it small enough to not take up too much room but large enough to be used safely and do some actual work
I like D2 but I need a more stainless steel . Most of my knives are S35VN or 14C28N! With a couple of 20Cv in there but those are much more expensive knives! Either way blade geometry and heat treat are also a major factor!
I have a couple of old original Queen Cutlery slip joint knives with D2 blades and those blades are a royal PITA to sharpen, they seem so hard they just feel like they're sliding across ice instead of a sharpening stone, it takes forever to touch them up, but they do stay sharp for a long time. I also have a Rat 2 and a Rat 1 with D2 and the heat treating must be a bit different on those because while staying sharp for a good while, they are easier to touch up. As far as stainless goes, they're stainless enough at about 12% chromium, I actually prefer plain old carbon steel anyway, so being stainless isn't a concern for me.
I am just looking forward to Niomax if some can ever get produced. Larrin Thomas, the man, myth, and legend himself was hoping it would be the pinnacle of ingot steel for knifes.
Hello DCA. You are talking about that new magnacut steel thingy quite often. Can You explain why it's so special? What's making that steel different from other steels out there?
When I got back Iinto knives.. all the esee stuf 1st. Then as a folder I eventually got the avispa in d2. During covid. My father was killed and I burried it w him. Since then I ve had several more of zancudos and avisapas. I ve carried prisdio2 for 5 years now and honestly d2 is just as good in EVERY way as 30v.
Hello DCA and KC, I have been collecting folding knives for a while now, and I have finally figured out the criteria I look for in folding knives (long expensive process). Now I am wanting to start fixed blade collecting, do you have any go to recommendations for beginner fixed blades to start collecting at, and what type of steel to look for? Stainless vs carbon steels. Thanks
To sharpen d2. A piece of 400 grit sandpaper taped to a book makes sharpening easy and gives a bitey sharp edge. Micro bevel with jewel stick, strop- job done
My favorite choice is 14c28n and nitro V But I prioritize toughness pretty high, and a LOT of my D2 blades have chipped or snapped completely. Sure I'm tough on my knives, but it's what I do.....
I never understood why D2 caught on as the budget steel of choice when 14c28n exists. Most people don’t need ultimate edge retention at the expense of toughness and corrosion resistance. 14c28n has both qualities in spades and the ease of sharpening makes the decreased edge retention far less of an issue. Nitro-V and AEB-L, as relatives of 14c28n, are equally as awesome and always made far more sense to me than D2. I remember when Civivi was first really taking off as a brand - they had tons of D2 options (the Elementum being the most well known) but I think they only had one model in 14c28n, the Riffle. I’m glad we are seeing 14c28n and Nitro-v take over. 154cm is also pretty exciting, but I’m worried that it’s going to be run on the soft side. It really jumps up in capability the harder you run it. Shame we aren’t seeing ATS-34 get the same love. The IDEAL would be RWL-34 and CPM-154 become the new standard for the “middle” tier knives from the big Chinese OEMs.
Hey DCA do you know if Spyderco is going to make the Paramilitary 2 Tanto again if they are I hope it is a salt series version in LC200N or Magnacut? I would also like to know is the Spyderco Paramilitary 2 legal to EDC in Virginia?
I’m not a lawyer and this is not legal advice but I looked it up on my “Legal Blade” app and it looks like a pm2 should be legal in the state of Virginia. However, local (city, county, etc) may have different rules. You cannot take it into a school, government building, or church though. At least that’s my understanding.
Good D2 is still very good, but 14c28 and NitroV are going to be easier tor field service- all of these are very useful, and there are arguments for the razor steels over particle in the right circumstances. Kaiser 154CM is very usable stuff
I think the old Kershaw leeks were 440A. At least that was what I had been told about mine, an old 1660BR with red/black flame anodizing. It has a date on the blade (JUL 04) but no designation of the steel printed.
I still have the SRM D2 blade you reviewed 2-3 years ago. I only sharpened it 3 times. I have no problems with D2. I even like the SRM company. Could you review more of there stuff?
Wow 3 comments from me on 1 video. I can’t wait to try SF2 or SFII steel. I love the way RPM9 sharpens and I’m very optimistic if it can stay in the 154CM price range. If it’s any higher I’d rather get S90V for a few dollars more.
So I saw Walmart has that Swiss Tech Kräftig in D2 and wonder if anyone has ajything to say about rheir heat treat. I'm leaning toward the Haltbar in VG10. Anyone have both?
There are many Chinese-made kitchen knives that are marketed as "VG10". But if you dig deeper, the smaller-print will say "10Cr15CoMoV". So I believe "10Cr" is the Chinese equivalent to Japanese-made VG10.
I've had bad luck with some companies, either the D2 is too soft or too brittle. So far, Böker has been good, Shieldon okay but nothing spectacular. Shooziz was too brittle. That's what I remember off-hand.
@@kirkmagill7313 That's what bugs me, the lack of consistency. 14C28N seems to be good across the board. I'm looking at two potential beaters from Swisstech, the Haltbar in VG10 and the Kräftig in D2. I feel like they're made for different purposes, the Haltbar being more for bushcrafting like a Mora, and the Kräftig being like the Gerber Strongarm for abuse.
Best yard combo - silky pocket saw and silky hatchet - not much you can’t do with those…. Been using those two on my property for about 5 years and have yet to meet the job they cant tackle - anything too big for that combo needs a chainsaw or some type of power tool
Love my QSP canary made out of 14c28n easy to sharpen I just wish it lasted longer between sharpening. Will pay more for a tougher still that holds an edge longer. Unfortunately Magnacut is a little too pricey.
what's the point in making multi steel blades? not Damascus, more like the kershaw leek with D2 and 14c28n (1660CBBW). Is the cutting edge using both steels? is the edge one metal and the spine another? I could almost see a use in 14c28n edge with a d2 spine to make a stainless edge with a spine more capable of striking a ferro rod, but outside of that, I have no idea what blades like this are useful for.
My Elementum D2 is great. I love the knife other than the button lock(my mistake). I will be glad when button locks go away. My RAT 1 D2 is crap, will not hold an edge as long as the Elementum.
1095 is a carbon steel, way tougher than D2 but it is not stainless at all and will not hold an edge like D2. For a big outdoor use blade give me 1095 all day long, easier to sharpen and won't chip like D2 (just keep it cleaned and oiled if not a coated blade). For an EDC folder...I will take d2 and its ability to hold an edge for a long time and the semi-stainlessness.
Hi David, I live in the Bahamas 🇧🇸, it is a very humid climate. I have been getting knives with S30V for it stainless and edge retention. Do you think it’s a worthwhile for me to upgrade to Magnacut steel. My every day carry is Benchmade 940 and Spyderco papa 3.
I’ve tested the tip retention of RPM9 blade steel on both a Pyrite and another knife, and the results were disappointing. The tip broke easily during a standard piercing test without any side prying involved. Based on my experience, I wouldn’t consider RPM9 to be tough at all. It lacks durability where it matters most for real-world use.
I believe that is a good steel too but hard to come by, unless Naboo starts exporting more outside the galaxy. Rep. Jar Jar Binks did a good video on r2d2 blade steel
I am a big fan of the Elementum and have a few of them. However I wish they made one with a "super steel". What are some knives that are similar to the Elementum but have a "super steel"? (magnacut, S90v, Vanex, etc.)
I think the hardening/temper process has a lot to do with it. I’ve seen D2 that was amazing and I’ve had D2 knives that weren’t exceptional by any means
Hey Hey DCA and Thomas! Would love to hear both of your perfect pocket knifes for your steel preference (given preferred length, grind, handle material, etc etc.)
All the super knife nerds who carry/own nothing but $300+ knives are going to argue over what steel is the best, blah blah blah. Meanwhile, my EDC collection consists of no knives over $100 with "lower grade" steel. Guess what? My knives can do everything yours can do, and I don't have to worry about putting them to use and beating on them. My other collection are high-end knives, but they don't leave their original boxes as I'm passing them down to my adult children once I'm no longer on this earth.
People pay extra for materials, edge retention, finish, milling, Inodizing, style and such. It's hard for some to praise a car for being a value for the money when they are used to driving exotics unless you just love cars in general. When you have the money you respect the hardwork, you want more, and of course bragging rights when you pull it out. Hell I was hunting down an ozark trail $5 knife last year lol. I have Over 100 pocket knives in my collection from beaters to grails. I have custom knives over $1,000 but I'll still take to work a Milwaukee fastback and appreciate a Ganzo, Petrified Fish, Sencut, or Camillus..
If anyone isn’t buying D2 steel because it isn’t stainless buy a tin of Wicked Wax for about $15 and it will protect your D2 knife and make it basically stainless. A $15 tin will last 10+ years.
I like the steels Laguiole knives are mostly made of - very sharp and easy to keep sharp mainly - 12C27- and 12C27MOD-Steel - 14C28N-Steel - X50CrMoV15-Steel and some others. And Magnacut 🤣
Oddly enough, my nickname in college was pocket knife AND my girlfriend at that time was nicknamed pocket clip! So technically the first person to put a pocket clip on a pocket knife was in fact m......
Hey DCA, I've got a challenge for you. I am looking for my first titanium frame lock. What (in your opinion) is the best bang for the buck while still feeling special under $300.
I won't buy D2 anymore mainly for two reasons: I have caught my Elementum rusting around the pivot hole, and it's not a pleasure to sharpen. 14c28n for me in the budget realm.
Ive never been able to get d2 really sharp. Im almost refuse to sharpen it. I typically stop at 300 grit. M4 in my opinion is the powder d2. They both suck. Id rather have aus8 even aus6
22:53 favorite budget knife steals probably 14C28N. It can be heat treated to hold an edge as long as s30v, is way tougher, and cost less. In a way it's budget Magnacut.
The problem is, you'll pretty much never find that heat treatment on a production knife.
14c28n doesn't hold an edge as long as S30v regardless of how you do it. It does have much more toughness and a bit more corrosion resistance, though. If you can sharpen, and you don't mind sharpening more regularly, then it is likely a better steel choice than steels like S30V or Magnacut anyway.
14C28N is my budget choice as well. Nitro-V is winning me over too, but I'm not surprised. They're similar. I'm big fan of 154CM as well.
I bought an R2D2 to use as a work knife a 3-4 years ago and as someone who had never sharpened knives before I bought a Work Sharp Guided Field Sharpener and found it quite easy to put a good sharp edge back on it. Not sure why people believe it to be hard to sharpen.
I've long been a fan of Bob Dozier knives and his primary steel was D2. I have a drawer full of Bob's knives and never had a problem sharpening them. Bob often demonstrated how to sharpen his knives and he used diamond sharpening stones which makes sharpening D2 as easy to sharpen any other steel. Also, over the years my D2 knives have showed very little inclination to rust. Most say it is semi-stainless but it takes very little extra care to keep them rust free. Also, I'm loving the popularity of Magnacut because as the clamor increases, the cost of knives with steels that are just as good (or nearly so--we can argue the point) can often be purchased at a bargain. E.g., l love my red-handled Griptillian in 20CV that I paid (IIRC) around $99 for--a great deal from KCI! I also think that there are enough videos out there now showing that Magnacut can be "chippy" when sharpened to a fine edge so I'm not worshiping at that altar just yet. I have one Magnacut knife and that's a good plenty.
D2 used to be tough to sharpen but with modern Diamond Sharpening Stones for around $50-$60 you can easily sharpen any steel to hair whittling sharp in under a minute. Diamond stones have changed the game. No factory edge is as sharp as one I can make in 60 seconds.
I totally agree. People keep repeating its hard to sharpen With a river stone- yes, the right gear- no
Softer AlOx and SiC stones will cut D2 faster than diamonds.
FALSE...D2 was never hard to sharpen because of the stones...and diamonds wont change that.... it was the carbides being so large that they stuck out proud on and edge below 30 degrees and were easily ripped out.
@@rockets4kids Uh, Not hardly! Only in very soft, normally chinese knockoffs of D2. It isn't exactly to the proper specs for D2 nor is it heat treated properly. Nor is the Rat! D2 does NOT lend itself to batch heat threat.
KnifeMaker
@@michaell397 AlOx and SiC are better than diamonds even for steels like Rex121 from Spyderco.
14C28N is still THE budget royalty! Though DC53 & RPM9 are no slouches.
I have been pleasantly surprised with the RPM-9 I used as a daily. I went into it before knowing much about it, and it's been great. It can punch above its weight, considering it's on $30 knives now.
Good to see the ESEE's on the table. The 5 is a beast. The 6 is best all round. The Junglas is on my wish list.....! Keep up the good work. Education on knife steels is greatly appreciated.
Ontario rocks with their knives, just got their new 1.5 with Magnacut Steel and it comes shaving sharp, after stropping just a little it shaves nicely. For a price tag below a 100 bucks it is a nice addition to anyone's collection.
Then it doesn’t come shaving sharp lmao,
You overlooked an important mosquito choice: dragonflys eat them too! So maybe the dragonfly two in k390 or mythical edition in lc200n or magnacut
I love D2. It's one of my absolute favorite budget Steels. I've never had any issues sharpening it on Diamond or bonded Diamond Stones and as long as I clean it and keep it dry after use I have no issues. I'd choose it over almost any other budget Steel
I love d2 and 14c. Quick and easy to sharpen on my diamond stone and take a screaming edge that lasts pretty well. And they don’t cost a fortune. I probably have a dozen thatre d2 and 14c.
I actually like d2 more than 14c. For my use I don't need a whole lot of toughness and I live in a desert so stainlessness is not that important to me. For a budget knife d2 is perfect for me.
As a hunter i love d2 and 14c. Both similar edge retention (super steel or toughness not needed). Both touch up with diamond stick well
D2 is awesome! It's my favorite budget steel, because it holds an edge better than any other budget steel.
Get some diamond sharpening plates and it'll sharpen right up.
The sound on that Kizer cormorant 20:17 😌👌
I have a few Benchmade that have D2 the SOCP folder gen 2 and the auto adamas. D2 is great if it’s coated in my opinion. Great video DCA!
For yardwork, nothing beats my BK9 to hack small limbs and my 10" Silky saw to cut the bigger stuff. This kit is so handy that I keep it tossed behind my seat in the truck when I am on the road.
No reason to choose D2 when 14C28N has nearly the same wear-resistance and is many times tougher. It's also easier to sharpen. The corrosion resistance is bonus. 14C28N is in the same family as 13C26, AEB-L, and 420HC -- they all have similar properties, though 14C28N is the best of these. Nitro V was meant to be an improved AEB-L but loses a lot of toughness in exchange for a little wear-resistance. 14C28N manages to gain both wear-resistance and corrosion resistance, all without losing any toughness.
KnifeSteelNerds fame Dr. Larrin Thomas rates D2 at 5 for edge retention, and 14c28n at 3. If you don't need very thin geometry, or to beat on the knife, then you don't need the extra toughness of 14c28n. If you don't need the corrosion resistance of 14c28n, like if you get coated D2, then the D2 is the better bet. For folding knives, coated D2 is leagues better than 14c28n, with specialty exceptions for things like razor blades or knives to beat on.
@@phil2082 KnifeSteelNerds fame Dr. Larrin Thomas is basing this on the CATRA test which only measures wear resistance. The CATRA test doesn't measure wear through micro-fracture, which is the more common method of fulling out in the real world. It also doesn't account for the fact that 14C28N can be run at lower apex angles.
A lot of knife makers seem to prefer to work with AEB-L, i think it may be just because theyve learnt their skill using it and know it very well. I totally agree that 14C28N is superior to NitroV in every way, Im really not liking how it is being adopted over 14C by so many companies in the last year or two.
@@phil2082 I like and use D2. But 14c and friends are going to be better field/camping blades for general use.
@@dalelane1948 The single most important factor to most knife makers is how much product they can move at a high profit margin.
Love the fidget factor of the cormorant, however I just got one of the Tetris patterns and it is a pocket shredder. Tried to loosen the clip and it broke, luckily Kizer is sending a free replacement, but I’m looking for any mod ideas on how to mitigate how much it shreds my pocket. Any suggestions are much appreciated!
Spyderco's premier steel used to be VG-10, and Benchmade's was D2 or 154CM. I still like them and even 440C or ATS34. I find the heat treatment varies on D2. For some reason I don't trust M390 or N690. I am just a casual user/collector.
Spyderco do steel very well
154CM is my favourite budget steel
I love VG-10, and have found 10Cr to be equivalent for my needs. It's a great balanced steel.
The thing about D2 that not a lot of people talk about is it's consistently easy to heat treat.
As a vacuum heat treat specialist… d2 and dc53 are 2 SOLID. If you can get 59-61 hrc… your in business
I prefer it over most
Great point David, steels that have moved down-market still cut everything they did before. Was good then, still is now.
Along a related note though, one of my favorite party tricks is to cut open steel cans using my pocket knife. Please hear me out before lecturing me on "How Not to Treat Your Knife." Many knives, from about mid-grade on up, are made from tool steels that were designed to cut or shape metal, including other steels. If the tool steel was designed for this duty, what's the harm? So here's the question: What are some alloys and/or geometric features that would make a knife tolerant of this so-called abuse? (P.S. I'm grown up enough not to try to make warranty claims if I do something clearly stupid...)
Hi DCA, great video! I wanted to know which you think is a better folding knife for food prep; the Civivi Hid or the Kizer Momo? Thanks.
Same question ^^
My go to backyard knife these days is the Terava Skrama 240 and it would take a lot for another knife to take its place. It's kind of a shame that S45VN didn't get more time to saturate the knife industry before it got its lunch eaten by Magnacut. 80CrV2 is my favourite budget steel. The biggest problem with D2 is that it isn't as forgiving when you shovel hundreds of them into the oven at the same time, where you'll end up with a bunch of blades getting bad heat treatments. I'll take the AUS8 or AUS10 variant over the D2 for that reason. I have zero problems with lower production number D2 knives though.
i love S45VN, i know its not a popular opinion but taking in all it's properties i believe it is a top 3 knife steel
Good program. Enjoyed it very much.
By the numbers: Using the numbers from Dr. Larrin Thomas of KnifeSteelNerds fame:
D2 is at 3.5 for toughness, 5 for edge retention, and 4.5 for corrosion resistance. So:
Toughness / edge retention / corrosion resistance
D2 is at 3.5 / 5 / 4.5
14c28n is 9 / 3 / 8.5
420HC is 9 / 2.5 / 8
8cr13mov is 6 / 3 / 7
Super steels, to compare:
M390/20cv at 3.5 / 6.5 / 9
S90V is way up at 3.5 / 9 / 7.5
S30V is at 4 / 6 / 7.5
S35VN at 5 / 5 / 7.5
Magnacut at 7 / 5 / 9.5
D2 is the same edge retention as Magnacut and S35VN. It has less toughness, which means it is worse for thin geometry or beating on, which doesn't matter for normal folding knives. It has less corrosion resistance, which just means you should use coated D2. Basically, coated D2 is as good as uncoated Magnacut and S35VN for a folding knife. Coated D2 is very close to S30V, and is closer to 20CV than it is to 14c28n for edge retention.
If you need to beat on a fixed blade, D2 is not better than other options. If you need to have corrosion resistance, D2 is not the best. If you don't rust knives (or you get coated D2), and you are using a folder, then you should probably go for cheap coated D2 over expensive magnacut or S35vn.
I've not had great luck with D2 holding an edge. Have a good sharpener and can put a hair shaving edge on the most recent D2 steel knife purchased from you guys. Only use it to open boxes and cut tape mostly and the edge still fades faster than I think it should (me thinking can be dangerous). Just bought a Kershaw knife with Magnacut blade. Will see if it does better in my applications.
I was trying to make an Altoid survival kit. What do you think would be some of the best knives you could put in it small enough to not take up too much room but large enough to be used safely and do some actual work
I like D2 but I need a more stainless steel . Most of my knives are S35VN or 14C28N! With a couple of 20Cv in there but those are much more expensive knives! Either way blade geometry and heat treat are also a major factor!
Why do you “need” something stainless? You don’t clean your knives?
I believe Tariffs will define where knives will be bought in future.
The landscape is in for a massive overhaul.
I have a couple of old original Queen Cutlery slip joint knives with D2 blades and those blades are a royal PITA to sharpen, they seem so hard they just feel like they're sliding across ice instead of a sharpening stone, it takes forever to touch them up, but they do stay sharp for a long time. I also have a Rat 2 and a Rat 1 with D2 and the heat treating must be a bit different on those because while staying sharp for a good while, they are easier to touch up. As far as stainless goes, they're stainless enough at about 12% chromium, I actually prefer plain old carbon steel anyway, so being stainless isn't a concern for me.
A delightful double dose of Damyr on this fine day.
Hey DCA, I missed out on buying your pocket tango design with the nessmuk blade. Is there going to be another run of these awesome knives?
Not sure about the origin of the wire pocket clip, but I think the first examples I can remember were on knives coming from Italy.
I only have one D2 knife and i haven't had any trouble being it sharp just by stropping it when it seems like it's not cutting the way i like.
I am just looking forward to Niomax if some can ever get produced. Larrin Thomas, the man, myth, and legend himself was hoping it would be the pinnacle of ingot steel for knifes.
Hello DCA. You are talking about that new magnacut steel thingy quite often. Can You explain why it's so special? What's making that steel different from other steels out there?
When I got back Iinto knives.. all the esee stuf 1st. Then as a folder I eventually got the avispa in d2. During covid.
My father was killed and I burried it w him. Since then I ve had several more of zancudos and avisapas.
I ve carried prisdio2 for 5 years now and honestly d2 is just as good in EVERY way as 30v.
Hello DCA and KC, I have been collecting folding knives for a while now, and I have finally figured out the criteria I look for in folding knives (long expensive process). Now I am wanting to start fixed blade collecting, do you have any go to recommendations for beginner fixed blades to start collecting at, and what type of steel to look for? Stainless vs carbon steels. Thanks
i *think* the first wire clip *i* ever encountered was on a milwaukee fastback utility knife...or maybe a spyderco lightweight?
To sharpen d2. A piece of 400 grit sandpaper taped to a book makes sharpening easy and gives a bitey sharp edge. Micro bevel with jewel stick, strop- job done
My favorite choice is 14c28n and nitro V
But I prioritize toughness pretty high, and a LOT of my D2 blades have chipped or snapped completely.
Sure I'm tough on my knives, but it's what I do.....
I never understood why D2 caught on as the budget steel of choice when 14c28n exists. Most people don’t need ultimate edge retention at the expense of toughness and corrosion resistance. 14c28n has both qualities in spades and the ease of sharpening makes the decreased edge retention far less of an issue.
Nitro-V and AEB-L, as relatives of 14c28n, are equally as awesome and always made far more sense to me than D2.
I remember when Civivi was first really taking off as a brand - they had tons of D2 options (the Elementum being the most well known) but I think they only had one model in 14c28n, the Riffle.
I’m glad we are seeing 14c28n and Nitro-v take over. 154cm is also pretty exciting, but I’m worried that it’s going to be run on the soft side. It really jumps up in capability the harder you run it. Shame we aren’t seeing ATS-34 get the same love. The IDEAL would be RWL-34 and CPM-154 become the new standard for the “middle” tier knives from the big Chinese OEMs.
Hey DCA do you know if Spyderco is going to make the Paramilitary 2 Tanto again if they are I hope it is a salt series version in LC200N or Magnacut? I would also like to know is the Spyderco Paramilitary 2 legal to EDC in Virginia?
If there's a PM2 Tanto in Magnacut I'll give away my money like I'm Joe Biden and Spyderco is Ukraine!
Love it.! Hello from Australia.
I’m not a lawyer and this is not legal advice but I looked it up on my “Legal Blade” app and it looks like a pm2 should be legal in the state of Virginia. However, local (city, county, etc) may have different rules. You cannot take it into a school, government building, or church though. At least that’s my understanding.
Good D2 is still very good, but 14c28 and NitroV are going to be easier tor field service- all of these are very useful, and there are arguments for the razor steels over particle in the right circumstances. Kaiser 154CM is very usable stuff
Very informative. I get D2 when available.
I think 154 cm is an awesome steel. Would love to see it become the default for budget knives.
I’ve been eying either White River M1 Skinner or Tops Bull Trout. Would love to see a comparison or any models similar I may be overlooking.
I think the old Kershaw leeks were 440A. At least that was what I had been told about mine, an old 1660BR with red/black flame anodizing. It has a date on the blade (JUL 04) but no designation of the steel printed.
I still have the SRM D2 blade you reviewed 2-3 years ago. I only sharpened it 3 times. I have no problems with D2. I even like the SRM company. Could you review more of there stuff?
Wow 3 comments from me on 1 video. I can’t wait to try SF2 or SFII steel. I love the way RPM9 sharpens and I’m very optimistic if it can stay in the 154CM price range. If it’s any higher I’d rather get S90V for a few dollars more.
Queen Cutlery used D2 from 2002 in all of their slip joints
And the prices were not expensive
Great steel
So I saw Walmart has that Swiss Tech Kräftig in D2 and wonder if anyone has ajything to say about rheir heat treat. I'm leaning toward the Haltbar in VG10. Anyone have both?
Yes and they are both insanely good even more so for the price. The fit and finish is FAR beyond $50 and so is the sheath.
@The4cp Between the two, which so you find yourself using more?
First wire clips I remember seeing were on one of the Italian companies. Maybe Fox
DCA famously said, back in the TTAK days, "D2 will hold a dull edge for a very long time" 😂. Nailed it!
I have a d2 boker trapper and it is awesome. Made in Germany
There are many Chinese-made kitchen knives that are marketed as "VG10". But if you dig deeper, the smaller-print will say "10Cr15CoMoV". So I believe "10Cr" is the Chinese equivalent to Japanese-made VG10.
Man I wish this video came out a couple weeks earlier!
Edge retention is king. Long live D2.
100% as long as the steel isn't suuuper chippy edge retention is the only thing that matters. If you're rusting a knife you're doing something wrong.
I've had bad luck with some companies, either the D2 is too soft or too brittle. So far, Böker has been good, Shieldon okay but nothing spectacular. Shooziz was too brittle. That's what I remember off-hand.
@@AmbuBadger Yeah it seems like D2 is all over the place with heat treatment from different companies. More so than other steels
@@kirkmagill7313 That's what bugs me, the lack of consistency. 14C28N seems to be good across the board.
I'm looking at two potential beaters from Swisstech, the Haltbar in VG10 and the Kräftig in D2. I feel like they're made for different purposes, the Haltbar being more for bushcrafting like a Mora, and the Kräftig being like the Gerber Strongarm for abuse.
Lol 😂😂
Best yard combo - silky pocket saw and silky hatchet - not much you can’t do with those…. Been using those two on my property for about 5 years and have yet to meet the job they cant tackle - anything too big for that combo needs a chainsaw or some type of power tool
Love my QSP canary made out of 14c28n easy to sharpen I just wish it lasted longer between sharpening. Will pay more for a tougher still that holds an edge longer. Unfortunately Magnacut is a little too pricey.
Can't wait for the Maximal
Blade for mosquitoes? How about the Spyderco Dragonfly?
what's the point in making multi steel blades? not Damascus, more like the kershaw leek with D2 and 14c28n (1660CBBW). Is the cutting edge using both steels? is the edge one metal and the spine another? I could almost see a use in 14c28n edge with a d2 spine to make a stainless edge with a spine more capable of striking a ferro rod, but outside of that, I have no idea what blades like this are useful for.
Most times it's for edge retention on the blade and toughness at the spine.
Why don't we see folders with 1095?
Many Barlow folders are still 1095.
I'd like to see that. Especially from Tops.
My Elementum D2 is great. I love the knife other than the button lock(my mistake). I will be glad when button locks go away. My RAT 1 D2 is crap, will not hold an edge as long as the Elementum.
A steel used by a couple of knifemakers is 1095...How does that compare to D2? I have knives with both steels and like both for various tasks.
1095 is a carbon steel, way tougher than D2 but it is not stainless at all and will not hold an edge like D2. For a big outdoor use blade give me 1095 all day long, easier to sharpen and won't chip like D2 (just keep it cleaned and oiled if not a coated blade). For an EDC folder...I will take d2 and its ability to hold an edge for a long time and the semi-stainlessness.
At this point I stick with 14c and nitro v. d2 is alright but not a deal breaker
Honestly, D2 is really great, but with 14C, Nitro V and 154CM coming down in price... it is tough to choose it.
How does cobalt compare to steel?
Hi David,
I live in the Bahamas 🇧🇸, it is a very humid climate. I have been getting knives with S30V for it stainless and edge retention. Do you think it’s a worthwhile for me to upgrade to Magnacut steel. My every day carry is Benchmade 940 and Spyderco papa 3.
I’ve tested the tip retention of RPM9 blade steel on both a Pyrite and another knife, and the results were disappointing. The tip broke easily during a standard piercing test without any side prying involved. Based on my experience, I wouldn’t consider RPM9 to be tough at all. It lacks durability where it matters most for real-world use.
What about R2 • D2 steel from STAR WARS ?
I believe that is a good steel too but hard to come by, unless Naboo starts exporting more outside the galaxy. Rep. Jar Jar Binks did a good video on r2d2 blade steel
I remember it doing well in desert conditions; swamps, not so much so. Also, seemed to not rust in that forest on Endor...
I am a big fan of the Elementum and have a few of them. However I wish they made one with a "super steel". What are some knives that are similar to the Elementum but have a "super steel"? (magnacut, S90v, Vanex, etc.)
I think We knife made some Elementum with 20CV and maybe others steel
I've had good steel with bad heat treatment and budget with good heat treatment.... I'll take a good heat treatment almost Everytime.
154CM is in my humble opinion far superior in every way
I think the hardening/temper process has a lot to do with it. I’ve seen D2 that was amazing and I’ve had D2 knives that weren’t exceptional by any means
Grandad has a couple o knives from Italy & France with wire clips.
Hey Hey DCA and Thomas! Would love to hear both of your perfect pocket knifes for your steel preference (given preferred length, grind, handle material, etc etc.)
I can always separate the collectors from the users as soon as you hear some fool start saying “D2 isn’t really that great”.
I remember when D2 was custom only.
There's an old joke involving a swordsman, mosquitos and mosquito reproduction so the best way to fight mosquitos might be a good sharp sword.
Hi, what is the best knife for couch potatoes?
Mosquito trunks are rostrums.
All the super knife nerds who carry/own nothing but $300+ knives are going to argue over what steel is the best, blah blah blah. Meanwhile, my EDC collection consists of no knives over $100 with "lower grade" steel. Guess what? My knives can do everything yours can do, and I don't have to worry about putting them to use and beating on them. My other collection are high-end knives, but they don't leave their original boxes as I'm passing them down to my adult children once I'm no longer on this earth.
People pay extra for materials, edge retention, finish, milling, Inodizing, style and such. It's hard for some to praise a car for being a value for the money when they are used to driving exotics unless you just love cars in general. When you have the money you respect the hardwork, you want more, and of course bragging rights when you pull it out. Hell I was hunting down an ozark trail $5 knife last year lol. I have Over 100 pocket knives in my collection from beaters to grails. I have custom knives over $1,000 but I'll still take to work a Milwaukee fastback and appreciate a Ganzo, Petrified Fish, Sencut, or Camillus..
@@DridenThanks for sharing your thoughts & options.
Knives of Alaska use D2 and are razor sharp and great blades.
We love D2.
Nitro V steel is a collaborative work by New Jersey Steel Baron and Buderus Steel, Germany.
If anyone isn’t buying D2 steel because it isn’t stainless buy a tin of Wicked Wax for about $15 and it will protect your D2 knife and make it basically stainless. A $15 tin will last 10+ years.
Civivi's heat treatment / tempering on D2 steel is excellent.
I like the steels Laguiole knives are mostly made of - very sharp and easy to keep sharp
mainly
- 12C27- and 12C27MOD-Steel
- 14C28N-Steel
- X50CrMoV15-Steel
and some others.
And Magnacut 🤣
Oddly enough, my nickname in college was pocket knife AND my girlfriend at that time was nicknamed pocket clip!
So technically the first person to put a pocket clip on a pocket knife was in fact m......
Question.
Does Twosun make good knives for the price? They have some interesting things out
How is David able to open the top of his head?
I love D2.
Hey DCA, I've got a challenge for you. I am looking for my first titanium frame lock. What (in your opinion) is the best bang for the buck while still feeling special under $300.
Yes d2 does Im partial to nitro 3
I won't buy D2 anymore mainly for two reasons: I have caught my Elementum rusting around the pivot hole, and it's not a pleasure to sharpen. 14c28n for me in the budget realm.
There are many places Sellig the cormorant S35vn for $55. Cheaper then 154cm.
Sprayform D2!
Ive never been able to get d2 really sharp. Im almost refuse to sharpen it. I typically stop at 300 grit. M4 in my opinion is the powder d2. They both suck. Id rather have aus8 even aus6