I'm just loving everything about these vids, your energy explaining things just brings peace and joy to learning CNC stuff, hope you keep doing more videos
One extra tip for using tape, use a rod like a dowel or piece of round bar stock to burnish down the tape to the surface. Lets you apply much more pressure than you can with a finger or hand
Acetone is a polar aprotic solvent. Isopropyl alcohol is a polar protic solvent. Sometimes, you need a non-polar solvent, e.g. dissolving some non-polar adhesive residue. Heptane works well here, though it smells and is a bit worse safety-wise than acetone (though nicer than toluene, benzene, diethyl ether, tetrahydrofuran, or chloroform which are other common non-polar solvents). Depending on what you're trying to clean you may find some solvents work better than others. Polar aprotic solvents tend to work best for dissolving cyanoacrylate (superglue) residue. Nitromethane is commonly sold for the purpose, e.g. as Permabond's "CA solvent 100".
I think it's just the community collectively learning over time. Double stick tape used to be best practice, then someone tried super glue and blue tape, then John Saunders found the powdercoating tape, and then people realized that watchmakers have been using the direct glue method for a long time. They taught me, and I get to share this most recent variant of the process. This is how progress is made!
Very useful video! Hope I'll get to use this knowledge in the future! I appreciate you keeping the part where you bonked the toolsetter in the video, somehow reassuring that we all have silly oversights sometimes. Most superglues won't stick to polyimide (kapton) tape if you want to limit the area stuff sticks to and don't have an HDPE brick handy. Edit: Hold up, is that custom music? :O
Well I had to keep the part where I bonked the tool setter, since I edited out the three endmills I broke for dumb reasons 🤣. And yes 🤣. Turns out AI music made a huge leap in the last few weeks.
@@AudacityMicro In some ways I suppose it's more embarrassing to break an end mill for dumb reasons since that's the main part you should be aware of where it is and what it's doing at all times.
Honestly, breaking tools isn't embarrassing for me. I break tons of them all the time. The reason I edited it out was because I didn't want to muddy up the main purpose of the video, which was about super glue
Couple more tips: Try 3M 2060 tape, works great without any of the surface prep steps. Keep the glue in the freezer and the shelf life goes up to years. The AI songs were great 😂
Great info. The datasheet for loctite 480 seems to show full strength at 1-3 minutes, but then uses 24h cure for the strength spec. I guess if its fully sealed under the part it takes longer. As you said in the last video, steel bond strength is higher compared to Alu (22-30N vs 14-22N).
I've had trouble with one of the parts I make. The superglue and tape gum up the 1/16" endmill and they snap off. I'm probably going to have to do it in 2 opps. Otherwise, I've had good luck with it.
Honestly I don't have any experience with it, so my thoughts are rather minimal. The only thing I can say with confidence is that a chunk of aluminum and some glue is cheap, and vacuum plates are expensive. Vacuum definitely looks like it's a lot faster. Super glue works well, but it's SLLLLOOOOOOOWWWWWW. vacuum probably makes more from a production standpoint.
I was thinking this. I'd only use superglue for one offs because of the time of clean up. For any multiple a quick vacuum fixture works well. Get a block of ali, drill an air hole from the side edge first and tap for an air fitting, then face the area and put a small groove for you gasket. I use 2mm silicone bead from ebay. Comes in 100m roll and cut to length. If i have a big run, I'll glue it into the slot. If you're milling non ferrous, you can use down cutters for woodworking which mean you can go a lot faster as you'll never lift the part and break the seal. Use a venturi vacuum generator. They're noisy but cost like £20 and dont use too much air if you can get a good seal. Run the vacuum through a collector tank though in case you suck any coolant through
Question, so I followed your instructions (thank you by the way) and I noticed something you might have insight into. Using the Loctite on a 6" x 6" piece I noticed everything in the middle of the part when disassembling it the super glue did not set up, it was still liquid. I tried one with activator applied once part was in the part was in place (sprayed on outside rim), I tried no activator at all, and lastly, I tried placing the activator on one half and this set up literally in under a second of which is way to fast to get aligned and pressed down to try and keep some sort of flatness. I gave each part an hour to set up. My question is, is there a way to get the center of the part to have the super glue set up? Or is there a slower activator one can use? Thank you for your time in advance and I appreciate the video's.
I have run into that before too. There seems to be a few things you can do to control it. 1) use less glue. Especially on something as large as 6x6, you don't need that much glue. I think ideally when you remove the part, you should be getting about 90% coverage. I definitely have a tendency to use too much too, and keep telling myself to use less. 2) after you spread the glue, wait a few seconds before sticking the part on. You may need to experiment with the right timing, but 20 or 30 seconds of air exposure should help. Maybe even a minute if you are using lots of glue. I would do some tests on a non-critical part. 3) you can mill some very shallow groves in a grid under your part. This will give excess glue a place to go, and give the glue more surface area. 4) try a thinner super glue, those dry much more quickly, and might be the better option for bigger parts. I make small stuff, so my procedure may be biased. I'm pretty sure what happens in these scenarios is that the glue dries with contact to the air. If there's too much glue, and not enough air, not all of the glue can dry. That's why it doesn't dry in the bottles. So basically you need to find a way to balance those ratios in the middle of your part a little better.
With flat stock and glue squares aren't you worried about trapping air? In construction/woodworking the typical suggestion is to have parallel zig-zag lines but never connect the lines (so air can exit). When setting large-format tile you use a notched trowel and keep the paths parallel (again so air can exit). Obviously that is with much thicker glue/mortar, but here the parts are very flat, so I wonder if air does get trapped in some places. Possibly worth some experimentation on whether it matters in this application. Great and informative video overall, thanks for making it!
I haven't seen evidence of it, but it's a possibility. If you look at the fixtures that watchmakers use, they do a grid of grooves. That gives excess glue and air somewhere to go.
Not sure if many people know this trick, but I used superglue on an extremely complex part. I glued it into a fixture as the part was .077 thick with a ton of 3d geometry. If you take dried up superglue, it turns to a liquid at about 300 degrees F. So, I snatched up the wife's little easy bake oven and tossed the parts in there while they were attached to the mold. At 300 degrees and a pair of welding gloves the parts just released from each other. Put the mold and part into a painters can of acetone (one gallon can) and it all dissolved away. Your going to want to do this outside as it produces a ton of gasses to the point it reminded me of the gas chamber in the Army. Oh and yes, the wife was pissed, but it made me 10,000 dollars and I bought her a new toaster.
@@AudacityMicro 3M #2090. I use the 3" wide because I like to tape less. Sometimes I glue down big sheets and slug out 25-75 parts on a sheet. it all depends. I find that the 3 inch saves time. I have used the 2" many times as well. I use Loctite Professional super glue. No CA activator. Like someone else mentioned, I burnish the tape to both surfaces with a dowel pin. That really helps out. for larger size thin plate work, I also clamp down a flat plate on the top to let the glue set. I basically sandwich the part I want to make between the sacrifical "Fixture" plate and a sacrificial plate on top that is flat (machined previously) so that all the clamping forces get spread throughout the workpiece. I rarely have a part kick by doing it this way and everything stays very flat. Usually within .003" across a plate that is 13" X 25"
Great video! Question: have you considered pre-drilling the adaptives so you don't need the helical entry? I try to do it any time I can since it saves a ton of time and end mill wear. HSS drills are cheap.
I actually have in the past, yeah. On a part like this it could actually save some time. But I don't actually use drills that often, I tend to bore everything. I don't keep any drills in my ATC or pre-set. Most of the time I'm just ramping in two or three times per program, so the time savings aren't worth the tool change. This program is definitely the exception to that though.
Two reasons. 1) my mill has a tiny taper, lots of RPM, and very little torque. It just doesn't like facemills. 2) facemills leave a better finish, but they are actually worse for flatness and give you bigger steps. If there's a .1 degree error in spindle tram error. That error is a much bigger step on a 2" facemills compared to a .25" endmill. It doesn't look as good, but you get flatter parts facing with a smaller tool.
The reaction forces from being in the cut will tilt a large face mill a lot further than a small end mill. To get a flat surface it us much better to use small end mills. But it does take waaaay longer. Face mills are better for business
@@AudacityMicro Fair points. I have a larger VMC with a CAT40 and 7.5 hp. A face mill has been working well in that. I can see why you choose an end mill though. Makes sense. Thanks for the reply.
I'm sure at some point it will no-longer be funny. But while it still is, you better believe I'm going to have a bunch more super specific montage music.
lol the glue work holding song was pretty epic.
I seriously had to stop the video and replay the music the first time i heard it say superglue ... LMAO! Keep up the good work!
😁
I'm just loving everything about these vids, your energy explaining things just brings peace and joy to learning CNC stuff, hope you keep doing more videos
I'm glad you find them helpful! I'll keep making them!
One extra tip for using tape, use a rod like a dowel or piece of round bar stock to burnish down the tape to the surface. Lets you apply much more pressure than you can with a finger or hand
Good to know! I'll have to experiment with that.
I use the shank of a broken endmill. I don't have a lot of dowels around, but for some reason I have piles of broken endmills 🤣
Funny, I have a box of those too....
Acetone is a polar aprotic solvent. Isopropyl alcohol is a polar protic solvent. Sometimes, you need a non-polar solvent, e.g. dissolving some non-polar adhesive residue. Heptane works well here, though it smells and is a bit worse safety-wise than acetone (though nicer than toluene, benzene, diethyl ether, tetrahydrofuran, or chloroform which are other common non-polar solvents).
Depending on what you're trying to clean you may find some solvents work better than others.
Polar aprotic solvents tend to work best for dissolving cyanoacrylate (superglue) residue. Nitromethane is commonly sold for the purpose, e.g. as Permabond's "CA solvent 100".
Another FYI: You can get acetone wipes, much like the alcohol wipes. They're sold as nail polish remover wipes.
Oh awesome! I'll have to look for those!
@@AudacityMicro They still stink, but much less mess!
Yes!!! Thanks for such a good produced and informative video!!
Thanks!
ive seen tons of videos using the super glue method but there is another WAY better solution that no one seems to talk about
I think it's just the community collectively learning over time. Double stick tape used to be best practice, then someone tried super glue and blue tape, then John Saunders found the powdercoating tape, and then people realized that watchmakers have been using the direct glue method for a long time. They taught me, and I get to share this most recent variant of the process. This is how progress is made!
@@AudacityMicro double side tape is still superior as long as you use the right tape and have the correct process in place
I have only had negative experiences with double sided tape, but I would gladly be proven wrong! What's your procedure, and what tape do you use?
Music is great
😁
Great video. Thanks. Also, love the song
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very useful video! Hope I'll get to use this knowledge in the future!
I appreciate you keeping the part where you bonked the toolsetter in the video, somehow reassuring that we all have silly oversights sometimes.
Most superglues won't stick to polyimide (kapton) tape if you want to limit the area stuff sticks to and don't have an HDPE brick handy.
Edit: Hold up, is that custom music? :O
Well I had to keep the part where I bonked the tool setter, since I edited out the three endmills I broke for dumb reasons 🤣.
And yes 🤣. Turns out AI music made a huge leap in the last few weeks.
@@AudacityMicro In some ways I suppose it's more embarrassing to break an end mill for dumb reasons since that's the main part you should be aware of where it is and what it's doing at all times.
Honestly, breaking tools isn't embarrassing for me. I break tons of them all the time. The reason I edited it out was because I didn't want to muddy up the main purpose of the video, which was about super glue
Couple more tips: Try 3M 2060 tape, works great without any of the surface prep steps. Keep the glue in the freezer and the shelf life goes up to years. The AI songs were great 😂
Great, very useful vid, thanks!
LOVE the AI superglue song 😂
Are we living in the future? It feels like we're living in the future
@@AudacityMicro My AI buddy replies:
Digital dawn breaks
Songs from silicon dreams:
Now is tomorrow
😂
🤣
lol that song
Lol, I think oddly specific montage music might be a key style thing for me going forwards. We'll see how long it stays funny for.
@@AudacityMicro I thought you had used a.i song as the lyrics were so high pitched ai like 😆
I think that's just because I told it to make an 80s song 🤣
from the description: "I know about vacuum workholding, it just sucks."
Lmao
😁
Great info. The datasheet for loctite 480 seems to show full strength at 1-3 minutes, but then uses 24h cure for the strength spec. I guess if its fully sealed under the part it takes longer.
As you said in the last video, steel bond strength is higher compared to Alu (22-30N vs 14-22N).
That was a great vid! Good work ! Excellent flow and communication 👌🏻
Thanks!
Wish you would have shown op2 still on these. I get why you didnt i suppose though,
I've had trouble with one of the parts I make. The superglue and tape gum up the 1/16" endmill and they snap off. I'm probably going to have to do it in 2 opps. Otherwise, I've had good luck with it.
Can you try it without tape? That should solve the gumming issue.
What is your thougts on vacuum style holding?
Honestly I don't have any experience with it, so my thoughts are rather minimal. The only thing I can say with confidence is that a chunk of aluminum and some glue is cheap, and vacuum plates are expensive.
Vacuum definitely looks like it's a lot faster. Super glue works well, but it's SLLLLOOOOOOOWWWWWW. vacuum probably makes more from a production standpoint.
I was thinking this. I'd only use superglue for one offs because of the time of clean up. For any multiple a quick vacuum fixture works well. Get a block of ali, drill an air hole from the side edge first and tap for an air fitting, then face the area and put a small groove for you gasket. I use 2mm silicone bead from ebay. Comes in 100m roll and cut to length. If i have a big run, I'll glue it into the slot. If you're milling non ferrous, you can use down cutters for woodworking which mean you can go a lot faster as you'll never lift the part and break the seal. Use a venturi vacuum generator. They're noisy but cost like £20 and dont use too much air if you can get a good seal. Run the vacuum through a collector tank though in case you suck any coolant through
I definitely bought all the ingredients to try this out, but have never gotten around to it 😅. I need to find a good excuse for a test project
Question, so I followed your instructions (thank you by the way) and I noticed something you might have insight into. Using the Loctite on a 6" x 6" piece I noticed everything in the middle of the part when disassembling it the super glue did not set up, it was still liquid. I tried one with activator applied once part was in the part was in place (sprayed on outside rim), I tried no activator at all, and lastly, I tried placing the activator on one half and this set up literally in under a second of which is way to fast to get aligned and pressed down to try and keep some sort of flatness. I gave each part an hour to set up. My question is, is there a way to get the center of the part to have the super glue set up? Or is there a slower activator one can use? Thank you for your time in advance and I appreciate the video's.
I have run into that before too. There seems to be a few things you can do to control it. 1) use less glue. Especially on something as large as 6x6, you don't need that much glue. I think ideally when you remove the part, you should be getting about 90% coverage. I definitely have a tendency to use too much too, and keep telling myself to use less.
2) after you spread the glue, wait a few seconds before sticking the part on. You may need to experiment with the right timing, but 20 or 30 seconds of air exposure should help. Maybe even a minute if you are using lots of glue. I would do some tests on a non-critical part.
3) you can mill some very shallow groves in a grid under your part. This will give excess glue a place to go, and give the glue more surface area.
4) try a thinner super glue, those dry much more quickly, and might be the better option for bigger parts. I make small stuff, so my procedure may be biased.
I'm pretty sure what happens in these scenarios is that the glue dries with contact to the air. If there's too much glue, and not enough air, not all of the glue can dry. That's why it doesn't dry in the bottles. So basically you need to find a way to balance those ratios in the middle of your part a little better.
@@AudacityMicro I appreciate you help. thank you!
With flat stock and glue squares aren't you worried about trapping air? In construction/woodworking the typical suggestion is to have parallel zig-zag lines but never connect the lines (so air can exit). When setting large-format tile you use a notched trowel and keep the paths parallel (again so air can exit). Obviously that is with much thicker glue/mortar, but here the parts are very flat, so I wonder if air does get trapped in some places. Possibly worth some experimentation on whether it matters in this application. Great and informative video overall, thanks for making it!
I haven't seen evidence of it, but it's a possibility. If you look at the fixtures that watchmakers use, they do a grid of grooves. That gives excess glue and air somewhere to go.
Love the music! :))
Not sure if many people know this trick, but I used superglue on an extremely complex part. I glued it into a fixture as the part was .077 thick with a ton of 3d geometry. If you take dried up superglue, it turns to a liquid at about 300 degrees F. So, I snatched up the wife's little easy bake oven and tossed the parts in there while they were attached to the mold. At 300 degrees and a pair of welding gloves the parts just released from each other. Put the mold and part into a painters can of acetone (one gallon can) and it all dissolved away. Your going to want to do this outside as it produces a ton of gasses to the point it reminded me of the gas chamber in the Army. Oh and yes, the wife was pissed, but it made me 10,000 dollars and I bought her a new toaster.
Makes sense! I have a powder coat oven I could probably use for that!
I use blue painters tape with flood coolant all the time. I have made thousands of parts that way.
Interesting! I've never had luck with that. What brand of tape are you using?
@@AudacityMicro 3M #2090. I use the 3" wide because I like to tape less. Sometimes I glue down big sheets and slug out 25-75 parts on a sheet. it all depends. I find that the 3 inch saves time. I have used the 2" many times as well. I use Loctite Professional super glue. No CA activator. Like someone else mentioned, I burnish the tape to both surfaces with a dowel pin. That really helps out. for larger size thin plate work, I also clamp down a flat plate on the top to let the glue set. I basically sandwich the part I want to make between the sacrifical "Fixture" plate and a sacrificial plate on top that is flat (machined previously) so that all the clamping forces get spread throughout the workpiece. I rarely have a part kick by doing it this way and everything stays very flat. Usually within .003" across a plate that is 13" X 25"
@@motivemachineworks6890 I've found that the blue tape is more susceptible to coolant. PC tape works much better for me.
Great video! Question: have you considered pre-drilling the adaptives so you don't need the helical entry? I try to do it any time I can since it saves a ton of time and end mill wear. HSS drills are cheap.
I actually have in the past, yeah. On a part like this it could actually save some time. But I don't actually use drills that often, I tend to bore everything. I don't keep any drills in my ATC or pre-set.
Most of the time I'm just ramping in two or three times per program, so the time savings aren't worth the tool change. This program is definitely the exception to that though.
When is the superglue fixturing AI album dropping?
🤣
Wow could you share your feeds and speeds?
95% of my speeds and feeds coke straight from the Harvey tools calculator, even though for the most part I'm using tools from SGS.
@@AudacityMicro thanks for the tip! Unfortunately, their calculator isn’t not available in Sweden.
Really!!?? That's strange. I don't know why they wouldn't make that available everywhere
Why do you not use a face mill for facing operations? Using a small end mill takes much longer and can lead to "steps" in the face.
Two reasons. 1) my mill has a tiny taper, lots of RPM, and very little torque. It just doesn't like facemills.
2) facemills leave a better finish, but they are actually worse for flatness and give you bigger steps. If there's a .1 degree error in spindle tram error. That error is a much bigger step on a 2" facemills compared to a .25" endmill. It doesn't look as good, but you get flatter parts facing with a smaller tool.
The reaction forces from being in the cut will tilt a large face mill a lot further than a small end mill. To get a flat surface it us much better to use small end mills. But it does take waaaay longer. Face mills are better for business
@@AudacityMicro Fair points. I have a larger VMC with a CAT40 and 7.5 hp. A face mill has been working well in that. I can see why you choose an end mill though. Makes sense. Thanks for the reply.
Why does that mini mill have a floppy drive.
Because it's a 2005! I'm lucky I can use a thumbdrive.
Nice. I'm looking at a 97 fadal that has WiFi. Need to get my garage finished. Thanks for the videos.
The AI music is great. I didn't notice until I heard superglue in the song 😂🤣😂🤣
I'm sure at some point it will no-longer be funny. But while it still is, you better believe I'm going to have a bunch more super specific montage music.
100%. What website do you use?
Suno.com
Did fusion write that adaptive glue path?
All hand coded 😁
I demand op2!!! 😂
Sorry 🤣. I had a time lapse of it, but the camera died on me so I just skipped the whole thing 😅
all hail the isogrid
I need to find an excuse to just isogrid an entire sheet.
👍👍👍👍