Ended up getting the Kali LP-8s and a Presonus Pro Sub 10 subwoofer. They sound great together. Had to place the LP-8s upside down for the tweeters to be at ear height when seated at my workstation. The sub has a filter on the outputs for the satellite monitors, so that crossover is pleasant. I set it at 80hz.
So, two thoughts. First, am I understanding correctly, then, that there would be no phase problems if this sub (or any?) is placed, say, one or two feet behind the plane of the nearfield monitors? And secondly, what’s the directionality of frequencies between about 50 and 80 Hz? Part of me wishes the crossover on this could go lower to keep my stereo image intact as low as possible, but are frequencies below 80 Hz not even directional enough to be bothered mixing them in stereo (or MS)? Thanks a bunch in advance. Love the passion you guys clearly put into your work!
It's not a "this sub" question as much as it's a "subs in general" question. Best practice is to start with the sub in the same plane as the full range speakers, but one foot shouldn't make a difference. Two feet might start to get a little wonky at the crossover, but you might still be fine. You're not gonna notice stereo information in content below ~100 Hz. You WILL notice stereo information of the higher harmonics of instruments playing notes in that range, so it's possible to place the bass in the left speaker, as an example. But the fundamentals are very difficult to place in space. And so a lot (but certainly not all) of mixers just put that stuff center.
@@kaliaudio Thanks for the reply! I generally don’t pan anything bass-centric much, if at all, but yeah, I do put a distorted bass/synths, for example, a LITTLE left or right sometimes, and like I said, I’m always interested in mid-side stuff, so that seemed pertinent 🤷🏼♂️ Regardless, you’ve put out what seems to be another great product that I’ll be needing to budget for ASAP, and thanks again! 😊
is it a big difference in how low the lp-6 can be heard/felt vs the lp-8? there is 2 hz difference on your spec sheets. I know of course the 8 have more power and less distortion.
Since Dolby Atmos was mentioned, another thing to consider when having subwoofers for a setup that also includes bass management. I have 2 WS-12's, 7 IN-8's for surround speakers, and 4 IN-5's for height speakers. I originally had the subs for strict LFE, but I have realized that many consumer playback systems for surround allow for bass management between 80hz and 120hz, even up to 150hz sometimes. To get an even playback for smaller rooms with Atmos, I have found it is best to have bass management WITH the LFE playing at normal volume in both subs. Some people recommend a 10db addition for the LFE, but I think this is unnecessary, and for some songs can cause inaccurate playback comparison for current consumer devices. Some of my favorite Stereo songs are ruined in Atmos because of phase issues from Atmos systems that have this 10db gain on the LFE, and has caused phase issues, creating little to no low end in the subwoofers. But again, it also depends on the room size and if your speakers are full range. The LFE is hard to use in all music, and I would barely use it. Sometimes isn't even necessary to use an LFE. Film is a different story, but that is something that is out of my field experience. :)
Using the subs for both LFE and bass management is a good call. And you're right: LFE for music is the wild west right now. I hope that the industry coalesces around some reasonable standards that allow subs to be well utilized without necessary relying on the end user deploying them correctly.
If I get a subwoofer, can I make do with slightly smaller studio monitors? I was thinking about just getting the LP-8s by themselves, but after seeing this video, I'm thinking I should probably get a subwoofer, but can I then use smaller studio monitors, like LP-6s, cause the subwoofer will cover the deepest frequencies?
There's no wrong answer here (except maybe get ONLY a sub or something silly) but smaller speakers with a sub are a great way to save desk space, and get everything you need in terms of output and LF extension.
I just bought IN8 V2, now I am thinking about whether I made a mistake, probably LP6 and 6.2 would have been a better solution. Is this an overkill, to use the 6.2 sub with my IN8?
Thanks for the clear explanation!. I'm was going to get In-8, but I realized I would need a subwoofer. Would you recommend in-8 with sub or in-5 with sub? I work in a well treated room, but still the room is kind of small.
If you're within about 6 feet of the monitors and you have a sub, I don't think you'll notice any difference between IN-5s and IN-8s. I'd go with the smaller, less expensive speakers.
the wavelengths of low end are so large that it's very difficult to perceive their point of origination, especially in a small setup like most studios. That spatial information is mostly conveyed through higher frequency harmonics. So a LOT of bass is correlated, meaning that information below ~100 Hz is typically the same in both the left and right channel.
We need to just officially talk about x.x.x numbers as either the system or the mix. EX: my 7.2.4 system is playing back the 7.1.4 mix. Maybe that would help? It's useful colloquiality even if it's technically incorrect.
I'm just gonna pedantically and fundamentally disagree with you here. You're still running 7.1.4, you just have two subs. I'm not saying I'm unequivocally correct, but I find it useful to think of the two subs as a system.
@@kaliaudio As a system once you calibrate and time align things, yes. But to know what someone is working with it would be useful to know how many sub units they have to position. What I'm still stuck on is how would one refer to a dual center channel setup, with one above and one below the screen to better center the dialogue? Could be playing back a 5.1 output, or an Auro mix in which case it would be like a center height channel as part of a 5.1.5 system... But I've also never seen 5.1.5 in reality.
@@stevenswall look I'm not the president of format naming or anything. :) BUT I would argue this is still 5.1. Your center channel is still being fed by one channel of audio, it's just that you're using an array of speakers to play that center channel back. To change the analogy a bit, for a live concert, each line array is treated as one unit, regardless of how many elements are present. I'm arguing the same thing here.
"And the answer is yes." love it. Always good to have a sub. I mean, yeah you *could* fly blind, but wouldn't you rather sail through clear skies?
Oh I'm so quoting you on that.
Ended up getting the Kali LP-8s and a Presonus Pro Sub 10 subwoofer. They sound great together. Had to place the LP-8s upside down for the tweeters to be at ear height when seated at my workstation. The sub has a filter on the outputs for the satellite monitors, so that crossover is pleasant. I set it at 80hz.
So, two thoughts. First, am I understanding correctly, then, that there would be no phase problems if this sub (or any?) is placed, say, one or two feet behind the plane of the nearfield monitors? And secondly, what’s the directionality of frequencies between about 50 and 80 Hz? Part of me wishes the crossover on this could go lower to keep my stereo image intact as low as possible, but are frequencies below 80 Hz not even directional enough to be bothered mixing them in stereo (or MS)?
Thanks a bunch in advance. Love the passion you guys clearly put into your work!
It's not a "this sub" question as much as it's a "subs in general" question.
Best practice is to start with the sub in the same plane as the full range speakers, but one foot shouldn't make a difference. Two feet might start to get a little wonky at the crossover, but you might still be fine.
You're not gonna notice stereo information in content below ~100 Hz. You WILL notice stereo information of the higher harmonics of instruments playing notes in that range, so it's possible to place the bass in the left speaker, as an example. But the fundamentals are very difficult to place in space. And so a lot (but certainly not all) of mixers just put that stuff center.
@@kaliaudio Thanks for the reply! I generally don’t pan anything bass-centric much, if at all, but yeah, I do put a distorted bass/synths, for example, a LITTLE left or right sometimes, and like I said, I’m always interested in mid-side stuff, so that seemed pertinent 🤷🏼♂️ Regardless, you’ve put out what seems to be another great product that I’ll be needing to budget for ASAP, and thanks again! 😊
Next video: "Do I need a nuclear sub? And the answer is YES!!"
Loving my w6-2…. I paired with Adam T5v’s… movies are fun on it!
or just get some $20 iem's.
I have the new 6.2 added to my In-5's in my new garden studio and it sounds amazing! 😎
Oooooh I love the idea of a garden studio. When can we come over?
is it a big difference in how low the lp-6 can be heard/felt vs the lp-8? there is 2 hz difference on your spec sheets. I know of course the 8 have more power and less distortion.
Not a huge difference but it's there. You're likely to notice it more the further you are from the speaker.
Since Dolby Atmos was mentioned, another thing to consider when having subwoofers for a setup that also includes bass management. I have 2 WS-12's, 7 IN-8's for surround speakers, and 4 IN-5's for height speakers. I originally had the subs for strict LFE, but I have realized that many consumer playback systems for surround allow for bass management between 80hz and 120hz, even up to 150hz sometimes. To get an even playback for smaller rooms with Atmos, I have found it is best to have bass management WITH the LFE playing at normal volume in both subs. Some people recommend a 10db addition for the LFE, but I think this is unnecessary, and for some songs can cause inaccurate playback comparison for current consumer devices. Some of my favorite Stereo songs are ruined in Atmos because of phase issues from Atmos systems that have this 10db gain on the LFE, and has caused phase issues, creating little to no low end in the subwoofers. But again, it also depends on the room size and if your speakers are full range. The LFE is hard to use in all music, and I would barely use it. Sometimes isn't even necessary to use an LFE. Film is a different story, but that is something that is out of my field experience. :)
Using the subs for both LFE and bass management is a good call.
And you're right: LFE for music is the wild west right now. I hope that the industry coalesces around some reasonable standards that allow subs to be well utilized without necessary relying on the end user deploying them correctly.
If I get a subwoofer, can I make do with slightly smaller studio monitors? I was thinking about just getting the LP-8s by themselves, but after seeing this video, I'm thinking I should probably get a subwoofer, but can I then use smaller studio monitors, like LP-6s, cause the subwoofer will cover the deepest frequencies?
There's no wrong answer here (except maybe get ONLY a sub or something silly) but smaller speakers with a sub are a great way to save desk space, and get everything you need in terms of output and LF extension.
@@kaliaudio So I just ordered the Kali 8s would you prefer this sub or the 12 inch to pair with...
What are those speakers on the left? 😳
SM-5-C. New speaker coming soon. It's advertised in the official kali website.
Sheesh God bless u guys 🙏🏾🫰🏾
ua-cam.com/video/zr8gskZ2Bak/v-deo.html
Will they go with the IN UNF
Heck yes! Very, very capable desktop system there.
"the answer is yes" ... LOL :) love it
I just bought IN8 V2, now I am thinking about whether I made a mistake, probably LP6 and 6.2 would have been a better solution.
Is this an overkill, to use the 6.2 sub with my IN8?
Not at all! The IN-8 doesn't play all that much lower than the LP-6, so the WS-6.2 will still fill out the lower octave!
Thanks for the clear explanation!. I'm was going to get In-8, but I realized I would need a subwoofer. Would you recommend in-8 with sub or in-5 with sub? I work in a well treated room, but still the room is kind of small.
If you're within about 6 feet of the monitors and you have a sub, I don't think you'll notice any difference between IN-5s and IN-8s. I'd go with the smaller, less expensive speakers.
why is the bass not important in a stereo picture doesn't bass need to be stereo ? a subwoofer dosent give bass stereo
the wavelengths of low end are so large that it's very difficult to perceive their point of origination, especially in a small setup like most studios. That spatial information is mostly conveyed through higher frequency harmonics. So a LOT of bass is correlated, meaning that information below ~100 Hz is typically the same in both the left and right channel.
at least two, ideally
is this sub will be a god fit with my kali audio lp8?
It's a perfect fit!
We need to just officially talk about x.x.x numbers as either the system or the mix.
EX: my 7.2.4 system is playing back the 7.1.4 mix.
Maybe that would help?
It's useful colloquiality even if it's technically incorrect.
I'm just gonna pedantically and fundamentally disagree with you here. You're still running 7.1.4, you just have two subs.
I'm not saying I'm unequivocally correct, but I find it useful to think of the two subs as a system.
@@kaliaudio As a system once you calibrate and time align things, yes. But to know what someone is working with it would be useful to know how many sub units they have to position.
What I'm still stuck on is how would one refer to a dual center channel setup, with one above and one below the screen to better center the dialogue?
Could be playing back a 5.1 output, or an Auro mix in which case it would be like a center height channel as part of a 5.1.5 system... But I've also never seen 5.1.5 in reality.
@@stevenswall look I'm not the president of format naming or anything. :)
BUT I would argue this is still 5.1. Your center channel is still being fed by one channel of audio, it's just that you're using an array of speakers to play that center channel back.
To change the analogy a bit, for a live concert, each line array is treated as one unit, regardless of how many elements are present. I'm arguing the same thing here.
I'm planning on adding my first KALI sub to my IN-8's
The WS-12's sound phenomenal with my IN-8's in my Atmos setup!! Love Kali all around :)