11:03: Depends to what degree you look at it, whether you're disappointed about letting them go. There's a few I would have kept longer or would have liked to have seen more in the senior side, and that's coming from someone who has probably developed the reputation of being very harsh when it comes to youth team players. I think Divin deserved more of a chance over Ings last season. I think there was a time under Moyes's early tenure that Alese should have played LCB in a three. I really liked Ekwah's profile. I liked what I see from Longelo. I do have my question marks whether we could have got more out of Reece Oxford under the right circumstances (though I will admit, I was not as heavily invested in proceedings during that period) Again, this is coming from someone who has probably developed the reputation of being very harsh when it comes to youth team players. It's all circumstantial.
Get Scarles in that squad. I said it on Budgie and Cieran's show yesterday. I know he has been playing CM for the U-21s but give him a couple of games in the U-21s back at left back, encourage the team to go down that side more often than not and let him find his rhythm again in that position and get him in the squad. Like I said, I know I have come across as harsh on youth team players, but I'm realistic. I've worked in youth football and was very successful in doing so. Scarles has a place in that squad imo. Also thought Luisao should have been one of the ones in the PL squad because of the lack of cover we have on that left side of defense.
Seeeeeee: 12:15 - We have talent. Just don't rush. Set them up with appropriate loan moves where necessary and move them up the leagues incrementally. Robinson is a wicked talent. I still hold hopes for Casey; I've said, players with that type of frame take a couple of years longer to grow into themselves, but when he does, he could be a bit of a beast. Casey, with the right development, could be a really, really good player. He just needs to spend his developmental years playing, rather than sitting in the bench.
1:15: THERE YOU GO! That's why I keep saying, give these youth team players a progressive model to work through once graduating. 2 - 3 years of incrementally more challenging levels of football and then assess after that period. We have the capacity to do it. Just means that we need to be patient. If I was working alongside a kid, I would encourage them to stay under the umbrella of a PL club for the first couple of years after graduation from the youth team if they were offering that type of model, rather than be thrown into the wilderness of the lower leagues.
8:09: Honestly, it's pathetic. Had Nick from Claret and Booze saying we should be playing a midfield of Potts, Orford and Earthy this season and all the cretins lapping it up as if it wouldn't result in in us getting totally dominated.
Russ, I think that the segments posted by you and Holly bring back to the fore points that are glossed over or forgotten by many. Lopetegui has had a challenging time integrating the new players brought in over the Summer (into a different style of play) so it would have been folly to then try and throw youth team players into the mix. Moreover the manager would have had little time to cast an eye over or adapt into the first team style of player. Recent history is littered with players who did not make it and perhaps now regret taking agents advice/money ahead of possible first team football. Its not very often teams produce a Rice, Foden or Saka so the 3% stat is not a total surprise
Hi Russ. The youth have to be the way forward, especially given financial rules along with the ridiculous prices of established players. We cannot keep saying that these players are not ready. Until they are fully blooded into the senior teams, we won’t know. I agree that only a small percentage will become successful, but if you look at your own list we have been highlighting Scarles, Orford, and Earthy for a number of years. And remain hopeful that Marshall can show his potential. Potts and some of the others may be successful in the lower leagues, but this is still success. We cannot continue to be frightened by age! Sometimes you have to take a punt on potential.
Last one from me. Players need to be adaptable as well. A lot of these midfielders playing as 8's in youth football, may be better suited to being 10's when it comes to the seniors. Same with some of the CFs. Marshall for example, will not have the physicality to lead the line in the PL, but he could well be able to affect games as a 10 and or a winger. Need to manage these kids appropriately. The PL is not a forgiving league. It's there for all to see if you're succeeding or not.
Yes, there is. As long as people are realistic. People have to take into account standards as well. Scarles should be promoted to deputise for Emerson, in my opinion. That's about all I'm seeing in terms of practicalities that will actually improve us. I see enough from Potts in preseason to feel confident that with a bit more development and consistent football, he can benefit a PL squad. Not seen much more than that. People need to stop with this love story that we should have 5 youth team graduates in the starting 11. Football has moved on from there. The PL attracts the best quality talent from around the planet and the reality is, not all of them are good enough to impact a side with aspirations of getting Europe via the most difficult league in the world. I've said multiple times what the process should look like, go and get a minimum of two years men's football in your legs and assess after that period. Scarles is probably a different case because we've hung on to Cresswell for far too long but that really should be the approach. Not many players are going to come straight out of youth football ready to play in the toughest league in the world. Also, what Moyes said about youth team players was accurate. You need to assess these players at 21,22 where as 10 years ago it was ok to do it at 18,19, purely down to how competitive the league has become. Guilherme was literally hand picked as being one of the brightest talents in his entire generation and you can see he's not ready to impact PL games, week in, week out yet. What more evidence do you need?
I love our academy and have for many years, following it since the 70's. We need to nurture them and every coach should have a KPI in their contract that instructs them to include at least 3 in every matchday squad. 🙏🙏
I think the old football combination league had some benefits over the present system (and I’m sure some disadvantages too). I wonder what the metrics were for youth players under that system, and whether a higher % made through to the first team?? Either way we still have a great academy that is the envy of many other clubs. Happy Christmas everyone. COYI…
I bow down to your academy knowledge russy b just a shame we don’t see more of them in the 1st team FOR SURE but will nice to see how well the youngsters do when they come back off loan ⚒️⚒️⚒️
The use of Casey & Scarles as substitute’s against Bournemouth, and I don’t believe they shouldn’t have been given minutes, could have been Lopetegui trying to win favour with the fans, considering the pressure he’s been under because of his tactical decisions, as they say “when the away fans turn, you’re finished”. Although you said Cresswell travelled with the squad, he wasn’t included in the 9 published substitutes, I have just double checked the FA and One Football sites as I didn’t remember seeing him on the team sheet before the game.
Mate, Clownategui needs to focus on getting our 40, 50 million pound players onside before he starts attempting box ticking exercises with youth team players. This is by no way meant to disrespect any of our young players, because they all have journeys to undertake and I want to see all of them reach their optimum, but it's one thing keeping Scarles and Casey on side, it's another thing keeping established internationals and 30, 40, 50 million pound assests on side. Ie. Todibo, Kudus, Alvarez, AWB's body language hasn't been great, starting to see signs of it with Summerville. I'm not having Lopetegui, if i'm honest. While I want to see our youth team players provided opportunities to develop and succeed, it doesn't take away from the fact that there are KEY, KEY players (and assets) in that squad who have shown less than zero signs of buying into him. I'm still more concerned with the falling outs he seems to be having with 30, 40, 50 million pound players, if i'm honest. Giving Scarles and Casey 10 minutes each is certainly not covering over that for me, in the slightest.
@ I’m not justifying Lopetegui in our club, never been my choice, I was simply putting another alternative reason of why he made those surprising substitutions.
@@billclarke7893 I agree with you, mate. Just doubling down on your comment. Like I said, there are people who see Scarles and Casey get minutes and suddenly, everting is o.k. I'm just pointing out, every thing is far from O.k under Lopategui. Scarles and Casey (at this stage of their career, certainly) are not going to be pivotal to us getting European football. Kudus, Todibo, Alvarez, AWB etc.. certainly are. Really not happy with Lopetegui, at all.
@ there is a time and place for academy minutes, although Coufal had decent statistics, Bournemouth were having success down that side, maybe it was Mavropanos that contributed to their attack’s, certainly when he gave away that free kick. But my point is AWB was moved across to counter that, Coufal became a DMF in the absence of Soler & Alvarez, and with no Creswell, Lopetegui gave Scales an opportunity. And as I said, Casey may have been to appease the fans. Lopetegui’s substitutions throughout this season have been debatable, which I have made numerous comments across the various WH fan channels.
there are 3 players imo that will be squad players potts earthy and scarles there are some other lads that are showing future promise but most will be moved on for different reasons.
I might be wrong Russ, however I think you missed Freddie Potts (loan Pompy) off your list. He’s another academy player who is likely to make the 1st team in the near future! COYI 👍😀⚒⚒⚒
There should be a new prem rule that 2 out of the 5 subs used have to be from the academy, makes it fairer for every club plus gives the youth a chance against the men, to actually see how they compare
If other premier league teams go and get the best talent in the world and we give out participation trophies we will very quickly find ourselves in the championship or lower… the standard demanded is very high… one of the things Noble should do is sharpen and professionalise our loan system to send plays to lower divisions and abroad… the best English teams send their players out across Europe as well as buy ready made players from Europe…
Scarles. And that's where it stops. And that is largeley down to us keeping Cresswell for far too long, though I would have had confidence in him 'getting there eventually, either way. I feel he should be in the squad now due to the lack of quality cover we have at LB but even if we had reasonable quality back up, I would have trusted him to eventually develop into a player that can benefit the side. And Potts next season. I would argue he would benefit from another year of development, playing for a higher level champ team on loan, but they are the two closest IMO. People were having wet dreams over Earthy being the next Joe Cole last season and he's struggling to make an impact at Bristol. That's no shame as he's young and has a way to go but people need to be realistic about things. I hate being 'that guy' all the time, but people get extremely carried away with this whole topic. We're a Premier League club with aspirations of European football. People say they are willing to promote youth team players even if it means were not guaranteed to compete for Europe but wont go and spend a fiver to watch the youth team play. People just say those things because they think its the honourable thing to say.
I dont know why everyone gets so hyped over our youth players none of them have been anywhere near good enough for the Premier league as of yet.. Non of the players we have sild have gone on to do anything of note or even become a first team player at a Premier league club
As long as we have players on 100k a week and paid by Sullivan! kids will never get the chance they deserve imo . its not about physical demands !! Sullivan is a work to and for your wages freak, trust me ive worked for someone ( an uncle ) with the exact mindset as Sullivan ! constantly went on about finding/paying the wages .. its a sad life to live regardless the amount of money , having a phone stuck to your ears 24/7 no family time only lead to divorce lol .
11:03: Depends to what degree you look at it, whether you're disappointed about letting them go. There's a few I would have kept longer or would have liked to have seen more in the senior side, and that's coming from someone who has probably developed the reputation of being very harsh when it comes to youth team players.
I think Divin deserved more of a chance over Ings last season.
I think there was a time under Moyes's early tenure that Alese should have played LCB in a three.
I really liked Ekwah's profile.
I liked what I see from Longelo.
I do have my question marks whether we could have got more out of Reece Oxford under the right circumstances (though I will admit, I was not as heavily invested in proceedings during that period)
Again, this is coming from someone who has probably developed the reputation of being very harsh when it comes to youth team players.
It's all circumstantial.
Get Scarles in that squad. I said it on Budgie and Cieran's show yesterday. I know he has been playing CM for the U-21s but give him a couple of games in the U-21s back at left back, encourage the team to go down that side more often than not and let him find his rhythm again in that position and get him in the squad. Like I said, I know I have come across as harsh on youth team players, but I'm realistic. I've worked in youth football and was very successful in doing so. Scarles has a place in that squad imo. Also thought Luisao should have been one of the ones in the PL squad because of the lack of cover we have on that left side of defense.
Seeeeeee: 12:15 - We have talent. Just don't rush. Set them up with appropriate loan moves where necessary and move them up the leagues incrementally. Robinson is a wicked talent. I still hold hopes for Casey; I've said, players with that type of frame take a couple of years longer to grow into themselves, but when he does, he could be a bit of a beast. Casey, with the right development, could be a really, really good player. He just needs to spend his developmental years playing, rather than sitting in the bench.
1:15: THERE YOU GO! That's why I keep saying, give these youth team players a progressive model to work through once graduating. 2 - 3 years of incrementally more challenging levels of football and then assess after that period. We have the capacity to do it. Just means that we need to be patient. If I was working alongside a kid, I would encourage them to stay under the umbrella of a PL club for the first couple of years after graduation from the youth team if they were offering that type of model, rather than be thrown into the wilderness of the lower leagues.
8:09: Honestly, it's pathetic. Had Nick from Claret and Booze saying we should be playing a midfield of Potts, Orford and Earthy this season and all the cretins lapping it up as if it wouldn't result in in us getting totally dominated.
Russ, I think that the segments posted by you and Holly bring back to the fore points that are glossed over or forgotten by many. Lopetegui has had a challenging time integrating the new players brought in over the Summer (into a different style of play) so it would have been folly to then try and throw youth team players into the mix. Moreover the manager would have had little time to cast an eye over or adapt into the first team style of player. Recent history is littered with players who did not make it and perhaps now regret taking agents advice/money ahead of possible first team football. Its not very often teams produce a Rice, Foden or Saka so the 3% stat is not a total surprise
Hi Russ. The youth have to be the way forward, especially given financial rules along with the ridiculous prices of established players. We cannot keep saying that these players are not ready. Until they are fully blooded into the senior teams, we won’t know. I agree that only a small percentage will become successful, but if you look at your own list we have been highlighting Scarles, Orford, and Earthy for a number of years. And remain hopeful that Marshall can show his potential. Potts and some of the others may be successful in the lower leagues, but this is still success. We cannot continue to be frightened by age! Sometimes you have to take a punt on potential.
Last one from me. Players need to be adaptable as well. A lot of these midfielders playing as 8's in youth football, may be better suited to being 10's when it comes to the seniors. Same with some of the CFs. Marshall for example, will not have the physicality to lead the line in the PL, but he could well be able to affect games as a 10 and or a winger. Need to manage these kids appropriately. The PL is not a forgiving league. It's there for all to see if you're succeeding or not.
Yes, there is. As long as people are realistic. People have to take into account standards as well. Scarles should be promoted to deputise for Emerson, in my opinion. That's about all I'm seeing in terms of practicalities that will actually improve us. I see enough from Potts in preseason to feel confident that with a bit more development and consistent football, he can benefit a PL squad. Not seen much more than that. People need to stop with this love story that we should have 5 youth team graduates in the starting 11. Football has moved on from there. The PL attracts the best quality talent from around the planet and the reality is, not all of them are good enough to impact a side with aspirations of getting Europe via the most difficult league in the world. I've said multiple times what the process should look like, go and get a minimum of two years men's football in your legs and assess after that period. Scarles is probably a different case because we've hung on to Cresswell for far too long but that really should be the approach. Not many players are going to come straight out of youth football ready to play in the toughest league in the world.
Also, what Moyes said about youth team players was accurate. You need to assess these players at 21,22 where as 10 years ago it was ok to do it at 18,19, purely down to how competitive the league has become. Guilherme was literally hand picked as being one of the brightest talents in his entire generation and you can see he's not ready to impact PL games, week in, week out yet. What more evidence do you need?
I love our academy and have for many years, following it since the 70's. We need to nurture them and every coach should have a KPI in their contract that instructs them to include at least 3 in every matchday squad. 🙏🙏
I think the old football combination league had some benefits over the present system (and I’m sure some disadvantages too). I wonder what the metrics were for youth players under that system, and whether a higher % made through to the first team?? Either way we still have a great academy that is the envy of many other clubs.
Happy Christmas everyone. COYI…
Other night was 1st sign. Hopefully progresses from there
I bow down to your academy knowledge russy b just a shame we don’t see more of them in the 1st team FOR SURE but will nice to see how well the youngsters do when they come back off loan ⚒️⚒️⚒️
There is a chance for some to get more minutes during the hectic schedule seeing as the u21s don't have any fixtures for three weeks or so.
Good afternoon Russ thank you for another brilliant show as usual.
Thanks for listening
The use of Casey & Scarles as substitute’s against Bournemouth, and I don’t believe they shouldn’t have been given minutes, could have been Lopetegui trying to win favour with the fans, considering the pressure he’s been under because of his tactical decisions, as they say “when the away fans turn, you’re finished”.
Although you said Cresswell travelled with the squad, he wasn’t included in the 9 published substitutes, I have just double checked the FA and One Football sites as I didn’t remember seeing him on the team sheet before the game.
Mate, Clownategui needs to focus on getting our 40, 50 million pound players onside before he starts attempting box ticking exercises with youth team players. This is by no way meant to disrespect any of our young players, because they all have journeys to undertake and I want to see all of them reach their optimum, but it's one thing keeping Scarles and Casey on side, it's another thing keeping established internationals and 30, 40, 50 million pound assests on side. Ie. Todibo, Kudus, Alvarez, AWB's body language hasn't been great, starting to see signs of it with Summerville. I'm not having Lopetegui, if i'm honest. While I want to see our youth team players provided opportunities to develop and succeed, it doesn't take away from the fact that there are KEY, KEY players (and assets) in that squad who have shown less than zero signs of buying into him. I'm still more concerned with the falling outs he seems to be having with 30, 40, 50 million pound players, if i'm honest. Giving Scarles and Casey 10 minutes each is certainly not covering over that for me, in the slightest.
@ I’m not justifying Lopetegui in our club, never been my choice, I was simply putting another alternative reason of why he made those surprising substitutions.
@@billclarke7893 I agree with you, mate. Just doubling down on your comment. Like I said, there are people who see Scarles and Casey get minutes and suddenly, everting is o.k. I'm just pointing out, every thing is far from O.k under Lopategui. Scarles and Casey (at this stage of their career, certainly) are not going to be pivotal to us getting European football. Kudus, Todibo, Alvarez, AWB etc.. certainly are. Really not happy with Lopetegui, at all.
@ there is a time and place for academy minutes, although Coufal had decent statistics, Bournemouth were having success down that side, maybe it was Mavropanos that contributed to their attack’s, certainly when he gave away that free kick.
But my point is AWB was moved across to counter that, Coufal became a DMF in the absence of Soler & Alvarez, and with no Creswell, Lopetegui gave Scales an opportunity. And as I said, Casey may have been to appease the fans.
Lopetegui’s substitutions throughout this season have been debatable, which I have made numerous comments across the various WH fan channels.
there are 3 players imo that will be squad players potts earthy and scarles there are some other lads that are showing future promise but most will be moved on for different reasons.
I agree… Trust the academy management who do a top notch job consistently… they know what they are doing… 💯
It’s forgotten how Earthy got knocked out cold at Fulham… that’s the difference in intensity…
That was by another West Ham player wasn’t it?
I might be wrong Russ, however I think you missed Freddie Potts (loan Pompy) off your list. He’s another academy player who is likely to make the 1st team in the near future! COYI 👍😀⚒⚒⚒
I mention Freddie, albeit he’s now not technically an academy player IMO - over the age of 21
@ I guess so, hopefully he’ll come back and start getting some time with the 1st team. Interesting debate though. Good one. 👍😀⚒⚒⚒
There should be a new prem rule that 2 out of the 5 subs used have to be from the academy, makes it fairer for every club plus gives the youth a chance against the men, to actually see how they compare
I think were about 12-18 months too early to judge.
If by then none of the Cup winning team are regulars then there's probably an issue IMO.
If other premier league teams go and get the best talent in the world and we give out participation trophies we will very quickly find ourselves in the championship or lower… the standard demanded is very high… one of the things Noble should do is sharpen and professionalise our loan system to send plays to lower divisions and abroad… the best English teams send their players out across Europe as well as buy ready made players from Europe…
Irons ⚒
So in your opinion who do you think we have who should be given a chance in the first team ?
Scarles. And that's where it stops. And that is largeley down to us keeping Cresswell for far too long, though I would have had confidence in him 'getting there eventually, either way. I feel he should be in the squad now due to the lack of quality cover we have at LB but even if we had reasonable quality back up, I would have trusted him to eventually develop into a player that can benefit the side. And Potts next season. I would argue he would benefit from another year of development, playing for a higher level champ team on loan, but they are the two closest IMO. People were having wet dreams over Earthy being the next Joe Cole last season and he's struggling to make an impact at Bristol. That's no shame as he's young and has a way to go but people need to be realistic about things. I hate being 'that guy' all the time, but people get extremely carried away with this whole topic. We're a Premier League club with aspirations of European football. People say they are willing to promote youth team players even if it means were not guaranteed to compete for Europe but wont go and spend a fiver to watch the youth team play. People just say those things because they think its the honourable thing to say.
The youth must have hope, it’s what keeps them going, they need a very small light at the end of the tunnel.
If we were performing better im sure the kids would get a better chance .hence the top teams get more youth comming througj
I agree with this to a large degree. You have to provide these young players with an environment to succeed, not fail.
Come on russ, weve got to moan about SOMETHING 😂
Hopefully Freddie can get in next yr and Lewis can break in this season hopefully or go on loan in jan ⚒️⚒️⚒️
I dont know why everyone gets so hyped over our youth players none of them have been anywhere near good enough for the Premier league as of yet..
Non of the players we have sild have gone on to do anything of note or even become a first team player at a Premier league club
Probably because of Rice and winning the FA Youth Cup.
Because our fans are thick
There is hope for our youth players..
.. just at another club.
Time to ditch The Academy of Football slogan…It’s become History now
As long as we have players on 100k a week and paid by Sullivan! kids will never get the chance they deserve imo . its not about physical demands !! Sullivan is a work to and for your wages freak, trust me ive worked for someone ( an uncle ) with the exact mindset as Sullivan ! constantly went on about finding/paying the wages .. its a sad life to live regardless the amount of money , having a phone stuck to your ears 24/7 no family time only lead to divorce lol .
no chance i'm afraid. close down the academy and save some money,can't even sell them for much.
Come on russ, weve got to moan about SOMETHING 😂