When I took machine shop classes in the late 1960's digital wasn't even in the dictionary. Watching so many machine shop videos, especially Kurtis at CEE in Australia and Topper, I can't imagine anyone doing this work without a digital readout.
I was thinking the same thing. When I was learning to be a machinist most of our machines had been made in the 1940s. I remember one lathe marked USS Pennsylvania which was original equipment for a ship completed in 1916.
I had a clapped out old column mill with a DRO, then upgraded to a nice new mill without one. I only lasted a couple of weeks before ordering a DRO for the new mill.
Around 2005ish when I was in school learning metalworking I didn't have a DRO on the lathe or mill. My machining teacher always said if you can't work without a DRO you're in the wrong class as working without a DRO is the basics of machining. He was a great teacher.
@@samuraidriver4x4 I learned that way too, partly because it was long enough ago that there wasn't digital anything, never mind readouts! DROs make my shop time more productive and are easier on my old eyes. I do agree that you should learn the basics and treat your DRO as an aide, not as a fundamental.
@@billmckillip1561 there was 1 lathe with a dro in my school but my teacher wanted to let us earn the privilege of using that machine. I can clearly remember the first day, recieving tools including dull drill bits and hss blanks that you had to learn how to freehand grind. Once I had my first job as a welder/fabricator I was the only one that could actually use the lathe in the shop as no one knew how to properly grind tools or work without a DRO. It was a harsh but fair teacher and I do owe him alot. A DRO indeed a great aid that does help with production speed but seeing the younger guys these days that are to dependent on them does feel a bit wrong.
I have this same readout on my Graziano Sag 20. It's an excellent DRO, has extremely precise scales, and a programable tool offset system so that you can change tools on and off your tool post and never lose your position. I can hold tenths on that machine after installing the readout.
Aloha Keith, I have 4 DRO Pros readouts and am very pleased with them all. I have an earlier version of this unit for several years now and am very happy with it. DRO Pros is owned and operated by military veterans and I have had excellent service from them. With my power feed being a variable speed unit I find the inches per minute readout on the top right of the screen very useful. Enjoy and thanks for sharing with us viewers.
Thinking... This was the ideal machine for the capstan casting and adapter puck. Could even do ball end mill and a radius cutter and sweep all the corners.
I'm not a machinist, but I am fascinated by how easily you can measure with micron precision in such a "dirty" environment without elaborate sealing. This is especially true for a magnetic length reference on a machine that cuts iron and steel. This isn't in any way a criticism of you or Dro Pro. Great work!
That is a great video Keith. This will come in very handy for different projects. Guessing the chain winch for the sail boat could be the first, other than your check out for the DRO calibrating. and maybe you'll want to cut a circle in something else
Consider: Ask if they offer a powered axis upgrade. If not, suggest adding three rubber wheel equiped gear motors to what they already make, so it could be improved. Better still, get them to sponsor you and provide you the upgrade for assesment. Bo.
I can work with a mill that lacks a DRO. If I can choose between a mill with or without a DRO, I'll pick the DRO. I'm not surprised you haven't used that K&T much.
Thank you for this video. As always, it's a lot of work to break your work cycle to plan and set up the shots and then edit and upload. It would have been good however to have seen more on the aspects that are actually the difficult bits: planning where to mount the scales and readers, and designing, fabricating and mounting the necessary brackets on machines not designed to take them.
I checked my scales by zeroing an indicator and the dro at one end of travel, moved to the other end then back to zero. Both was equal zero showing that some random areas wasn t missed along the travel back and forth.
Very cool. We have gone from rotary resolvers to optical encoders for angular readouts; this seems to be a different technology; possibly related to hard drive read heads. I am wondering if there is an analogous device for angular motion. Of course for angular motion one major problem is getting the transducer aligned precisely with the true axis of rotation.
Excellent addition to the shop - will improve work time to the benefit of production schedules. Just 1 thing - the DRO PRO label on the display unit would drive me crazy being not aligned properly in its spot. It'll be one of the first operations to reposition it. Great machine, poor attention to cosmetic finishing.
Fitting this machine with a DRO properly sounds kinda challenging. I mean like completely proper, with scales on the 2D head as well. Would have to measure the angle of the head too and correct the tool coordinates with some trigonometry. But having a DRO on the three main axes should already help you a lot.
This is fascinating. I'm super curious how well the DRO matches up with the analog scale built into the machine. I like to think those old analog scales are super accurate, but I don't know for sure. I guess it would pay off to take some time and adjust the DRO magnetic scales to be perfectly true with the table. Keith goes through a lot of effort to make sure his tables and ways and all surfaces are flat, level, plumb, and true. If the scales are not the same, there could be (theoretically) a small cosine error on EVERYTHING. I bet that digital calibration feature would compensate for any difference.
Nice video on adding a dro to a k&t. I am curious though, why didnt he remove all of the original technology measurement system instead of building off of it. Especially on the X-axis it would seem it would keep a lower profile.
You mentioned you have a Wells index mill which model is it? I have a index 55 and recently had a shop fire by arson. I lost the mill but have some tooling that was specifically for it brown and sharp nine taper I have some neat tooling like a right angle, head attachment and some other stuff I’d be willing to sell to help recoup my huge loss, if it helps you out at all and can use that tooling
If the sensors use a magnetic technology, it begs the question of how they are made to work independently, reliably and consistently in close proximity to the large iron and steel masses of the machine itself and the various workpieces. Any ideas?
It looks nice, but does 1/10000 of an inch of feed shown on the screen correspond to 1/1000 of an inch of physical feed. I believe so. Anyway, as I see, in the millimeter scale it has three decimal places reserved, but inches to millimeters is converted with an accuracy of two decimal places. Why is there a third zero place?
Somebody sounds a little spoiled. To not use a machine because it doesn't have A DRO. I have a van Norman 1/2 Duplex milling machine That has no good place to put the 3 Axis So I'm stuck using snap gages. I manage
When I took machine shop classes in the late 1960's digital wasn't even in the dictionary. Watching so many machine shop videos, especially Kurtis at CEE in Australia and Topper, I can't imagine anyone doing this work without a digital readout.
I was thinking the same thing. When I was learning to be a machinist most of our machines had been made in the 1940s. I remember one lathe marked USS Pennsylvania which was original equipment for a ship completed in 1916.
I had a clapped out old column mill with a DRO, then upgraded to a nice new mill without one. I only lasted a couple of weeks before ordering a DRO for the new mill.
Around 2005ish when I was in school learning metalworking I didn't have a DRO on the lathe or mill.
My machining teacher always said if you can't work without a DRO you're in the wrong class as working without a DRO is the basics of machining.
He was a great teacher.
@@samuraidriver4x4 I learned that way too, partly because it was long enough ago that there wasn't digital anything, never mind readouts! DROs make my shop time more productive and are easier on my old eyes. I do agree that you should learn the basics and treat your DRO as an aide, not as a fundamental.
@@billmckillip1561 there was 1 lathe with a dro in my school but my teacher wanted to let us earn the privilege of using that machine.
I can clearly remember the first day, recieving tools including dull drill bits and hss blanks that you had to learn how to freehand grind.
Once I had my first job as a welder/fabricator I was the only one that could actually use the lathe in the shop as no one knew how to properly grind tools or work without a DRO.
It was a harsh but fair teacher and I do owe him alot.
A DRO indeed a great aid that does help with production speed but seeing the younger guys these days that are to dependent on them does feel a bit wrong.
Glad your honest about who sponsors or doesn’t sponsor your videos - not like abom product placement with no commentary - love you channel
The thing about Abom is EVERYTHING is sponsored he's in it for the money. I hate his videos and I've been a sub for several years
@@garys9694In it for the money? Well that’s a novel idea. Doing your job for money. Who woulda thunk.
Keith, the audio in this video was great, don't know what you did but this was much better than your other video's. Keep up the great work. 😀
Mr. Pete would be proud of you sir, but really many thnaks for your time and efforts making your videos.
If DRO PROS had known this DRO was going to Keith Rucker they probably would have put their cheesy sticker in the upper left hand corner on straight
LOL. You’re so right. For a company producing precision measuring equipment, they can’t apply their logo with any accuracy at all.
I have this same readout on my Graziano Sag 20. It's an excellent DRO, has extremely precise scales, and a programable tool offset system so that you can change tools on and off your tool post and never lose your position. I can hold tenths on that machine after installing the readout.
"Congratulations on your complete assimilation!" - The Digital Measurement Collective
"We welcome the Keith entity into the Collective."
Thanks for sharing Keith
i really want to add a DRO to both my lathe and milling machine! nice work!!
Heh that display unit is bigger than my lathe !
Aloha Keith, I have 4 DRO Pros readouts and am very pleased with them all. I have an earlier version of this unit for several years now and am very happy with it. DRO Pros is owned and operated by military veterans and I have had excellent service from them. With my power feed being a variable speed unit I find the inches per minute readout on the top right of the screen very useful. Enjoy and thanks for sharing with us viewers.
Reminiscent of Christmas morning to me. Exciting to put that new toy together!
Thinking... This was the ideal machine for the capstan casting and adapter puck. Could even do ball end mill and a radius cutter and sweep all the corners.
Thanks Keith, very nice upgrade with the DRO Pros DRO.
Nice quality unit.
Nice installation.
Thanks for sharing.
I'm also a Dro Pros fan, it's actually you Keith that made me fully switch to them. :))
Would be cool to see a read out on the spindle and its rotary offset. Would need a brush setup I guess to allow the rotation.
Thank you, Mr. Rucker for an informative video.
Need to make a cool art deco surround for that dro to blend it with that awesome mill.
I'm not a machinist, but I am fascinated by how easily you can measure with micron precision in such a "dirty" environment without elaborate sealing. This is especially true for a magnetic length reference on a machine that cuts iron and steel. This isn't in any way a criticism of you or Dro Pro. Great work!
A very nice upgrade for a vintage machine that never even dreamed of such a thing.
Z
That is a great video Keith. This will come in very handy for different projects. Guessing the chain winch for the sail boat could be the first, other than your check out for the DRO calibrating. and maybe you'll want to cut a circle in something else
Good morning Keith. A great upgrade. Have a great week!
the graphic display features are nice, would be handy to spot when you are about to make a mistake :D
Consider: Ask if they offer a powered axis upgrade. If not, suggest adding three rubber wheel equiped gear motors to what they already make, so it could be improved. Better still, get them to sponsor you and provide you the upgrade for assesment. Bo.
Thank you Keith!
Another great video Keith. Thanks for sharing!
I can work with a mill that lacks a DRO. If I can choose between a mill with or without a DRO, I'll pick the DRO. I'm not surprised you haven't used that K&T much.
Happy Monday Keith!😊
Thank you for this video. As always, it's a lot of work to break your work cycle to plan and set up the shots and then edit and upload. It would have been good however to have seen more on the aspects that are actually the difficult bits: planning where to mount the scales and readers, and designing, fabricating and mounting the necessary brackets on machines not designed to take them.
A very nice extention.... have lots of fun with it!
Nice job! looking forward to see it in use.
Excellent overview Mr Rucker…thanks!
I checked my scales by zeroing an indicator and the dro at one end of travel, moved to the other end then back to zero. Both was equal zero showing that some random areas wasn t missed along the travel back and forth.
Very cool.
We have gone from rotary resolvers to optical encoders for angular readouts; this seems to be a different technology; possibly related to hard drive read heads. I am wondering if there is an analogous device for angular motion.
Of course for angular motion one major problem is getting the transducer aligned precisely with the true axis of rotation.
Excellent addition to the shop - will improve work time to the benefit of production schedules. Just 1 thing - the DRO PRO label on the display unit would drive me crazy being not aligned properly in its spot. It'll be one of the first operations to reposition it. Great machine, poor attention to cosmetic finishing.
Great video. I truely enjoy dro.
Yea Kearney Trecker 2d love it
Beautiful
It's a cheap Chinese one. I installed a DRO on my new to me Bridgeport. It was surprisingly easy.
Thank you for another great video. Cheers
Fitting this machine with a DRO properly sounds kinda challenging. I mean like completely proper, with scales on the 2D head as well. Would have to measure the angle of the head too and correct the tool coordinates with some trigonometry. But having a DRO on the three main axes should already help you a lot.
This is fascinating. I'm super curious how well the DRO matches up with the analog scale built into the machine. I like to think those old analog scales are super accurate, but I don't know for sure.
I guess it would pay off to take some time and adjust the DRO magnetic scales to be perfectly true with the table.
Keith goes through a lot of effort to make sure his tables and ways and all surfaces are flat, level, plumb, and true. If the scales are not the same, there could be (theoretically) a small cosine error on EVERYTHING. I bet that digital calibration feature would compensate for any difference.
Thank you for sharing.👍
I was very curious on how you retrofit a DRO, thanks!
You need some scales for the head movements on a machine like that. Degrees and radius for sure.
Will that mill be used on the Stoker Engine?
A 25 year old who started learning that milling machine at 16 could make that work with out the electronic boolocks
Nice video on adding a dro to a k&t. I am curious though, why didnt he remove all of the original technology measurement system instead of building off of it. Especially on the X-axis it would seem it would keep a lower profile.
Does installing the DRO reader disable the analog use? 14:18 looks like it would block the use of the standards. Probably not critical?
I have an EL700 on a mill and I love the mapping graphics. Any idea what the difference between an EL700 and an EL750 is? They look very similar.
When would you work on Tally Ho Capstan? Did the foundrt manage to cast the piece?
Sweet
Very interested to see what this mill can do with the odd head, at least odd to me,
Great to see you prefer MADE IN INDIA, Items.
Could you plug you computer into the jackery with it also plugged into the mains too, obviously only when there is an outage forecast.
Keith, do you think that you Ol’e boys have been spoilt with the advent of DROs?🤣
Good job
You mentioned you have a Wells index mill which model is it? I have a index 55 and recently had a shop fire by arson. I lost the mill but have some tooling that was specifically for it brown and sharp nine taper I have some neat tooling like a right angle, head attachment and some other stuff I’d be willing to sell to help recoup my huge loss, if it helps you out at all and can use that tooling
I spent 5 years on a manual Bridgeport no dro, piece of cake just one turn is .200"
Using the bolt hole function of your DRO on a 2D should be illegal for PCD
Does it do 3-point center-finding?
This may be a foolish question but why isn’t there a scale for the quill motion?
Hi Keith doesn't the DRO scales need chip covers?
If the sensors use a magnetic technology, it begs the question of how they are made to work independently, reliably and consistently in close proximity to the large iron and steel masses of the machine itself and the various workpieces. Any ideas?
Distance; I think the read head is a solid state device, bit like a hard drive head, they are not that fussy about external influences any more.
Thanks John, that makes sense. I was thinking about much simpler and less sophisticated devices like ships' compasses.
I've always wondered what Axis Spindle up/down is called?
It’s called the quill. Not all mills have a quill.
And you can get 4 axis DROs for them if you want.
Brining your mill into the 1980's
That clicking noise would drive me crazy!
*- Keith, why not clean the rust off and oil the surfaces when you start working on something?*
My guess is because it wasn't necessary, and would rather have spent that time on something else.
Unless they have improved it, the display refresh rate is slow compared to the other style reader display.
It looks nice, but does 1/10000 of an inch of feed shown on the screen correspond to 1/1000 of an inch of physical feed. I believe so. Anyway, as I see, in the millimeter scale it has three decimal places reserved, but inches to millimeters is converted with an accuracy of two decimal places. Why is there a third zero place?
I think I would have to stick the sticker on straight :-)
the dro pro logo crooked
Inch is imperial
Now my DRO is totally obsolete. :-(
Your Y axis is the wrong way round.
Dros Pros label is crooked.
Posted 23 minutes ago at 6AM eastern US time nearly 700 views. Overseas?
Yes, sitting in Oslo having lunch 😁
Or getting ready for work. I'm in Tennessee.
@@CSWeldFabsames, Indiana
Ads are getting pretty daggum ridiculous.
Hihi first
We used to do fine without a DRO. We used something called skill instead of
Somebody sounds a little spoiled. To not use a machine because it doesn't have A DRO. I have a van Norman 1/2 Duplex milling machine That has no good place to put the 3 Axis So I'm stuck using snap gages. I manage
yeah but he has like 3 mills
Yes, but then remember, by his own admission, he is not a machinist!