This is very interesting. I have carbon shoes and although I have only run 10km and 21km races in them, the main thing I have noticed is that after the event there is less fatigue in my legs. I don’t necessarily feel faster when I wear them, but I think I probably am. Thanks for the great video.
@@aayusharora2459 I look forward to a marathon in the future. Do you train in a plated shoe? Am wondering about the Nike Fly or rather to stick to something like the Pegasus?
Since using carbon-fiber shoes, I don‘t have issues with my achilles anymore. Depending on training circle I cover a distance between 60 and 120 km/week.
I have 2 pairs of different Nike carbon plated shoes...sadly after (x2) 56km BLR's both failed... Had to put aside for Comrades and went with ASICS Gel Nimbus. Must say best 👌 decision I could have made being fairly new to running 🏃♂️.Thanks Coach
How about the benefits of plated shoes that allow faster recovery enabling more time on the road and also the ability to train longer at higher intensities? No issue with durability if you use retired plated shoes after 300km of racing as long as you run in proper form. No ankle or injury issues for me with plated shoes. Most importantly like many said, they put a smile on my face when running fast and has made running joyful to me again at older age.
For my 10k races ( and for speed workouts) I absolutely enjoy my ASICS Metaracers. For the half marathon and goal pace training runs I love my Saucony Endorphin Pros. In fact, I use the Saucony Endorphin Pros for long training runs even at moderate paces. I tried the Nike Vaporfly for long runs but they do not work for me except at my marathon racing pace of 5.20 min/km. I am a mid-foot runner.
I've been running in plated shoes ( nylon and carbon) for about 2 years The research I've read suggests it's the super critical foam gives about 75% of the performance gain 🤔 They made running fun again for me at 56 with less tired legs afterwards I'm getting c400miles + too There is no going back to ordinary shoes for me PS no toe or ankle issues either just legs that feel 10 years younger Let's wait till you're in your late fifties 😁
I’m 100% with you on this. I love all my carbon plated shoe. They make me want to run more and I recover so much quicker. I’ve been running in Nike carbon shoes since the 4% and I have never had any issues. Love them all and I’ll never not have them in my shoe rotation 🏃🏻♂️🏃🏻♂️👍
Same here. I am 58. Run from teen years, and simple foam shoes with no plate were beating up my legs. With the switch to nylon and carbon plated shoes, I can recover much faster and train more. They are a real game changer, especially for older runners.
I'm interested in trying some plated shoes, but I have a wide than normal mid-foot..I have a slight bump outward on the outside between my heel and 5th metatarsal. I also have practically no arch. Do they even make carbon plated shoes for a foot like that? I feel like they're all geared towards skinny footed runners with normal arches.
I am concerned about my Achilles/calves given the issue around ankle injuries. However I did see feedback that it improved both. Any further thoughts around this aspect? Ps I am a slow club runner trying to improve my fitness but I cannot afford to get morevinjuries to Achilles/calves
? Hiking shoes left heal severely wear heel, less severe right, in 3-4 weeks; 40,000. Daily steps, gravel. Buying Hoka and Keens, anyone have a solution, Thanks.
@@skobodabaws8946 Adidas Ultra Boost are certainly very very comfortable, and I'm wearing a pair today for recovery (after a morning trail run in Salomon Ultra Glides), just not sure about the long-term durability. Inov8 also have graphene infused soles on their trail shoes which are reputed to be indestructible, though I've not personally tried them yet.
Well, I found both my pairs of Alphflys for less than regular trainers, €123!! And put over 800km in my first pair and they still feel good!! Plus I LOVE them, I'm a heel striker, no injuries, they make running soooo much FUN!!! But I guess I'm not heavy AND I do use heaps of unplated shoes too!
Very valuable comments...my non-expert analysis essentially came to the same conclusion. Not for me. Amazing how(Adidas, Nike) shoes have gone backward in the last few years, save the price of course.
Very interesting post, I am 53 years old and 88kg (15% body fat) , I do 4 runs a week in non plated zero drop (or barefoot shoes) , my long runs on a Sunday in what I call my 70's platforms (currently speed 3's ) and race in carbon shoes. From a feeling perspective, I much prefer my Altra Escalante's (or even my barefoot shoes), but there is no doubt about the efficiency of the modern foam + plate. I did a back-to-back 14k last Saturday /Sunday same route and the difference was 5.13m/km vs 4.48m/km (2bpm avg variance). I enjoy training in normal low /mid stack low/zero drop shoes much more . The 5.13 per km is my natural tempo pace 4.48 is with 'cheat' .. sorry modern shoe's tempo pace.
I think a lot of the carbon/carbon super shoes were designed in a hurry and rushed to production and the consumer in a hurry, just so they had a presence/offering in the carbon supershoe market. This is my Theory, would you agree with this? Also, their is a saying "If all you use is a hammer, then every problem will look like a nail". In this case the hammer is the carbon plate inserts and the nail is any performance issue or performance increase that the manufacturers want to make in their shoes. Their are historical comparisons that can be made. Remember velcro? At one point it was hard to find a shoe that had old fashioned laces bcuz it seemed overnight, all shoes went to velcro. No, I cant think of one shoe at all that uses velcro. The other item was the shoe pumps. The mechanism to pump air into a shoe liner for a more personal and locked in fit. At one point, you could expect to pay 40% more for shoes with a pump. Same as velcro, I cant think of one shoe today that uses the pump. So what is your teams thoughts regarding carbon in shoes? Do you think that companies are just throwing out unproven designs just to get a carbon presence? Do you think that it really does enhance speed and performance or is it just the runner running faster bcus they think they can run faster with the supershoe on (Placebo effect)? Frankly, I much prefer the trainor version of all the carbon versions (Saucony speed over the pro, the Altra Vanish Tempo over the Carbon, Brooks Hyperion Tempo over the Elite,....). I would be most curious to get your opinions. Thank You!
But research has shown that it's the foam (pebax) that makes the difference, not the plate. This is why shoes like the Endorphin Speed (pebax foam with nylon plate) are shown to be more efficient when compared to a Hoka RocketX (eva foam with carbon plate). The Alpha/Vaporflys (the most efficient tested shoe) also uses pebax (zoomx) foam. The plate is there to add stability to a thick stack of foam. The thicker (40mm WA limit) the pebax sole, the greater the energy return.
You are correct and this has been documented by Nike's research in the development of their first carbon plated shoes. That report is still out there for anyone to read. But the myth that the magic is in the plate has taken a firm hold.
I don't know what foam is in the Altra Vanish Tempo, but it is a non plated rocker shoe and when I was using them I did a 3k time trial against the Alphafly 2 that I briefly owned before selling due to the outrageous noise. The Altra Vanish Tempo was no slower
Best is going to a brick and mortar shop and try it for yourself. Went to Runner's High so poised to get the Endorphin Speed 2. I didn't like them. Fast tempo, jogging, moderate paces, they just didn't work and also felt unstable. Then I tried the Shift 2 which felt like they were made for me. I went home wearing them. Did many runs and love them Idea is don't fall for the hype and go try for yourself before buying
I bought my first carbon shoes this summer, and will first use them (besides some training days to get accustomed) at Chicago. I’m an older runner, not too fast but not too slow. So we’ll see; maybe that 4% boost will at least leave me less shattered at the Finish Line. BTW - Kudos to Coach Lindsay on London! And hope to see Coach Shona at Chicago!!
Carbon shoes do last if you don't drag your feet over the ground like a limp donkey. Heel strikers should look for something else as they in general destroy any shoe in no time. They are like people driving in slammed cars with extreme camber, wearing and grinding their tires out way quicker.
Depends which ones. My Hoka Carbon X2, do seem to be durable although I run in them mostly on a track, and occasionally an asphalt Parkrun. On the other hand my Alphaflys the outsole already looked like it had had 200 miles in them after just the first HM.
@@82vitt People think it's worn out when the paint layer is worn off. Sure it looks quite disgusting however it doesn't impact the performance unless bits of foam start falling off like those from that guy on UA-cam has that ran over 2500 miles on a pair. Or if you puncture an airpod.
I'm a heel striker and get at least 800km out of all my shoes, including my Alphaflys which I adore above all others!! Going on 1000km now for my Novablasts!! No injuries either, and I do 400+km per month, even up to 500km!! Even my retired shoes still look great actually!!
@@davidh5429 What paint are you on about clown lol. The sole foam is unpainted broken white colour. I am talking about cracks that start appearing on the surface of it just after a couple runs. The Nike React foam does degrade in terms of energy return the more you run. How quickly it degrades will also depend on the runner's weight. A 48kg girl won't thrash a pair nearly as fast as a 80kg man.
@@82vitt You ask a question followed by an insult, showing to all you lack common sense and half a brain. The content of your rambling shows you lack knowledge regarding the Alphafly as well as it has no react foam, it instead has zoomx which is only covered by a super thin layer of rubber paint.
The data suggests the carbon plate shoes help runners with poor mechanics much more than elites with superior mechanics. My opinion is the rocker encourages and enhances a later and more powerful toe-off. Runners are sort of forced to use their hip flexors more, which greatly improves efficiency, in my opinion. A more extended foot behind the hips at toe-off changes the launch vector to have a bigger horizontal forward component, which makes up for a lot of poor front side inefficiencies in the stance phase (braking, etc).
I bought some carbon running shoes for a 10k .. the shoes arrived the previous day, so, I did my normal 6k morning trail run … just to see if it was worth trying them in the 10k. HUGE MISTAKE. I guess if I was an experienced technical runner I’d have known better, but, within 2 minutes I had seriously rolled my ankle … and got a heel blister (low profile socks … another mistake). So, my lively pink, carbon fiber shoes are back on the shelf … waiting for the next 10k race. I’m actually looking forward to my next race, for the first time, at 66,I’m ran a sub 60 minute 10k (with a serious lower leg muscle pull from the “roll” and a painful heel.)
Oooo controversial! I have raced in carbon shoes, but they are not matching the hype for me. I will be running London Marathon this Sunday in non carbon plated shoes. Shocking eh? 🤔
No one carbon fiber shoes are the same. I have Nike (4%, Next% 1&2, Alphafly), Adidas (Pro 3, Prime X), Saucony (Pro 1&3), Hoka (X & X-SPE), Brooks (Elite). Nike (4% & Next%) are the least problematic (if there is any problem at all) to me. Running form is more an issue to the knee then the shoes in general. Unfortunately, all the shoes are different, you need to adjust your running form to run on different shoes.
Ive noticed that an agressive toe off design with a high stack mid feels similar to the carbon plated mid . Agressive rocker non carbon mids seem to feel the same as my carbon plated shoe (probably the plate keeps the rocker more consistent ever so slightly) . But this is only my personal opinion
Heel strikers shouldn't use them in general. The PEBA foam is too unstable and would have a tendency to cause knee ligament issues. Also don't train in them as Parry says, you need to develop foot strength and flexibility for injury prevention.
I am a barefoot runner and am also 53 now. I've been completely barefoot for 8 years except when I run trails and particularly bad roads. That's when I wear Vibrams. I think the foot in itself provides enough and more energy return through the arch but only once it has gained its optimal strength. The main issue with carbon shoes is it makes your feet and joints progressively weak and therefore in the long run you are more prone to injuries. One has to weigh the pros and cons and match them to your aspirations. You should ask yourself do you want to run faster in the short term or do you want to run longer and faster for many years in the long term? In that response lies your answer to whether or not to run in carbon shoes.
The question is: where is the evidence that running in carbon plated shoes weakens your feet and joints. Most serious runners do foot , leg and ankle strengthening exercises anyway so I can't see the shoes being an issue . Plus, I am fairly sure that most runners do not wear carbon plated shoes for every run; mostly these are reserved for actual races or specific workouts.
I used a carbon shoe in my first marathon and a regular running shoe in my second. What I noticed is that on my 2nd marathon my feet were acking afterwards way more than in my first even though I was just marginally faster.
Not worried about the price, of course. Like the UK government I can issue some bonds. If that doesn't work I can just print some more money. And if that causes hyper inflation and economic collapse we can have a rethink and maybe go without any shoes at all.
As a barefoot/minimalist runner I just chuckle to myself when I see people running around wearing these trampolines on their feet. It's basically cheating as far as I'm concerned. It's like a cycling race on an electric bicycle or doing a high jump competition with a hydraulic pogo stick..
@@markfrock5322 that's like saying my muscles are bigger, my lifts are skyrocketing, and I recover incredibly fast, what's not to love about steroids? For your own pleasure, if it makes you feel like a better runner, knock yourself out. When these shoes first hit professional runners suddenly saw massive instant improvements and they started smoking other runners they otherwise wouldn't have stood a chance against. There was serious debate about banning these types of shoes from competition and I tended to agree. There's a point where the tech just kind of goes too far and for my caveman brain this is where I draw the line. I've used them, they feel too unnatural, and I generally just don't like them.
I agree with you. I am a minimalist running shoe person. The carbon in these platform shoes make people artificially faster but they actually not as fast ... Its cheating in my mind.....
Thanks, this was helpful! Do you have a recommendation on brands with a larger heel? Nike Vaporfly feels a little small but I’d be interested in possibly trying others if they’re different.
The new Saucony Endorphin Pro3 is stable .and looking good for 400+ miles It's almost as fast as the Vaporfly but probably more durable and useful for different training
Back in 1992 or 93 I had several pairs of Brooks Magnums that had a carbon plate that they called a Propulsion Plate System in addition to their Hydroflow cushioning. The plate was pretty thin, flat, and it was between the midsole and the outsole. Also it was tapered so that that it only extended under the big toe. They were fairly standard training shoes rather than racing shoes and the plate functioned more like a rock shield than today's plates do. But I do remember those shoes working very well for me. Brooks tried to bring the carbon plate back in a shoe around 2000 but they made it too thick and it made the shoe too inflexible. I remember that I tried on the shoes in a shoe store in Seattle and it turned out that the ultramarathoner Scott Jurek worked there.
This is very interesting. I have carbon shoes and although I have only run 10km and 21km races in them, the main thing I have noticed is that after the event there is less fatigue in my legs. I don’t necessarily feel faster when I wear them, but I think I probably am. Thanks for the great video.
Carbon fiber shoes will come into play when you run marathon less fatigue, better split timings
@@aayusharora2459 I look forward to a marathon in the future. Do you train in a plated shoe? Am wondering about the Nike Fly or rather to stick to something like the Pegasus?
Definitely helped my knees, no knee pain since using foot plate
Since using carbon-fiber shoes, I don‘t have issues with my achilles anymore. Depending on training circle I cover a distance between 60 and 120 km/week.
I have 2 pairs of different Nike carbon plated shoes...sadly after (x2) 56km BLR's both failed... Had to put aside for Comrades and went with ASICS Gel Nimbus. Must say best 👌 decision I could have made being fairly new to running 🏃♂️.Thanks Coach
How about the benefits of plated shoes that allow faster recovery enabling more time on the road and also the ability to train longer at higher intensities? No issue with durability if you use retired plated shoes after 300km of racing as long as you run in proper form. No ankle or injury issues for me with plated shoes. Most importantly like many said, they put a smile on my face when running fast and has made running joyful to me again at older age.
For my 10k races ( and for speed workouts) I absolutely enjoy my ASICS Metaracers. For the half marathon and goal pace training runs I love my Saucony Endorphin Pros. In fact, I use the Saucony Endorphin Pros for long training runs even at moderate paces. I tried the Nike Vaporfly for long runs but they do not work for me except at my marathon racing pace of 5.20 min/km. I am a mid-foot runner.
I've been running in plated shoes ( nylon and carbon) for about 2 years
The research I've read suggests it's the super critical foam gives about 75% of the performance gain 🤔
They made running fun again for me at 56 with less tired legs afterwards
I'm getting c400miles + too
There is no going back to ordinary shoes for me
PS no toe or ankle issues either just legs that feel 10 years younger
Let's wait till you're in your late fifties 😁
Agreed. 🎉🎉🎉
I’m 100% with you on this. I love all my carbon plated shoe. They make me want to run more and I recover so much quicker. I’ve been running in Nike carbon shoes since the 4% and I have never had any issues. Love them all and I’ll never not have them in my shoe rotation 🏃🏻♂️🏃🏻♂️👍
Same here. I am 58. Run from teen years, and simple foam shoes with no plate were beating up my legs. With the switch to nylon and carbon plated shoes, I can recover much faster and train more. They are a real game changer, especially for older runners.
I'm interested in trying some plated shoes, but I have a wide than normal mid-foot..I have a slight bump outward on the outside between my heel and 5th metatarsal. I also have practically no arch. Do they even make carbon plated shoes for a foot like that? I feel like they're all geared towards skinny footed runners with normal arches.
They make you weak
I am concerned about my Achilles/calves given the issue around ankle injuries. However I did see feedback that it improved both.
Any further thoughts around this aspect?
Ps I am a slow club runner trying to improve my fitness but I cannot afford to get morevinjuries to Achilles/calves
I still haven't used a modern carbon shoe, but absolutely loved the original Brooks Fusion (they messed things up with the Fission - its successor).
The comments opinions seems very different from the video.
Very much helpful
Anyone else find they run better (more efficient and faster) with the Saucony Speed versus the Pro. I’m trying to figure out why that might be for me.
I have the Speed 2 and Pro 2 and the Speed 2 is is very close to the Pro
@Coach Parry: Thanks for this greatly informative video!!
That's one expression I hate: the supercritical foam.
Damn, it's everywhere
? Hiking shoes left heal severely wear heel, less severe right, in 3-4 weeks; 40,000. Daily steps, gravel. Buying Hoka and Keens, anyone have a solution, Thanks.
I would suggest a vibram sole trail shoe, so Hoka SpeedGoat or Mafate Speed 4 should last the distance.
Been using Adidas ultra boost 19 for hiking! Its been the best
@@skobodabaws8946 Adidas Ultra Boost are certainly very very comfortable, and I'm wearing a pair today for recovery (after a morning trail run in Salomon Ultra Glides), just not sure about the long-term durability. Inov8 also have graphene infused soles on their trail shoes which are reputed to be indestructible, though I've not personally tried them yet.
@@George-lz6ue its good mate, i normally do long hikes like 50km in one day in those n i always come back fresh!
@@skobodabaws8946 That's great Skobo, if they work for you, stick with them. Where abouts do you hike?
The problem is that they are so expensive and don't last very long at all! All the other stuff doesn't really matter
Well, I found both my pairs of Alphflys for less than regular trainers, €123!! And put over 800km in my first pair and they still feel good!! Plus I LOVE them, I'm a heel striker, no injuries, they make running soooo much FUN!!! But I guess I'm not heavy AND I do use heaps of unplated shoes too!
@@bev9708Mine broke after 20 KM.
My favorite Marathon song:
Boing boing boing boing boing boing boing
Very valuable comments...my non-expert analysis essentially came to the same conclusion. Not for me. Amazing how(Adidas, Nike) shoes have gone backward in the last few years, save the price of course.
Very interesting post, I am 53 years old and 88kg (15% body fat) , I do 4 runs a week in non plated zero drop (or barefoot shoes) , my long runs on a Sunday in what I call my 70's platforms (currently speed 3's ) and race in carbon shoes. From a feeling perspective, I much prefer my Altra Escalante's (or even my barefoot shoes), but there is no doubt about the efficiency of the modern foam + plate. I did a back-to-back 14k last Saturday /Sunday same route and the difference was 5.13m/km vs 4.48m/km (2bpm avg variance). I enjoy training in normal low /mid stack low/zero drop shoes much more . The 5.13 per km is my natural tempo pace 4.48 is with 'cheat' .. sorry modern shoe's tempo pace.
I think a lot of the carbon/carbon super shoes were designed in a hurry and rushed to production and the consumer in a hurry, just so they had a presence/offering in the carbon supershoe market. This is my Theory, would you agree with this? Also, their is a saying "If all you use is a hammer, then every problem will look like a nail". In this case the hammer is the carbon plate inserts and the nail is any performance issue or performance increase that the manufacturers want to make in their shoes. Their are historical comparisons that can be made. Remember velcro? At one point it was hard to find a shoe that had old fashioned laces bcuz it seemed overnight, all shoes went to velcro. No, I cant think of one shoe at all that uses velcro. The other item was the shoe pumps. The mechanism to pump air into a shoe liner for a more personal and locked in fit. At one point, you could expect to pay 40% more for shoes with a pump. Same as velcro, I cant think of one shoe today that uses the pump. So what is your teams thoughts regarding carbon in shoes? Do you think that companies are just throwing out unproven designs just to get a carbon presence? Do you think that it really does enhance speed and performance or is it just the runner running faster bcus they think they can run faster with the supershoe on (Placebo effect)? Frankly, I much prefer the trainor version of all the carbon versions (Saucony speed over the pro, the Altra Vanish Tempo over the Carbon, Brooks Hyperion Tempo over the Elite,....). I would be most curious to get your opinions. Thank You!
But research has shown that it's the foam (pebax) that makes the difference, not the plate. This is why shoes like the Endorphin Speed (pebax foam with nylon plate) are shown to be more efficient when compared to a Hoka RocketX (eva foam with carbon plate). The Alpha/Vaporflys (the most efficient tested shoe) also uses pebax (zoomx) foam.
The plate is there to add stability to a thick stack of foam. The thicker (40mm WA limit) the pebax sole, the greater the energy return.
You are correct and this has been documented by Nike's research in the development of their first carbon plated shoes. That report is still out there for anyone to read. But the myth that the magic is in the plate has taken a firm hold.
I don't know what foam is in the Altra Vanish Tempo, but it is a non plated rocker shoe and when I was using them I did a 3k time trial against the Alphafly 2 that I briefly owned before selling due to the outrageous noise.
The Altra Vanish Tempo was no slower
@@colindittmer. There was a Altra employee on the Doctors of Running podcast that confirmed that the Altra EGO PRO foam is a pebax foam.
Best is going to a brick and mortar shop and try it for yourself.
Went to Runner's High so poised to get the Endorphin Speed 2. I didn't like them. Fast tempo, jogging, moderate paces, they just didn't work and also felt unstable.
Then I tried the Shift 2 which felt like they were made for me. I went home wearing them. Did many runs and love them
Idea is don't fall for the hype and go try for yourself before buying
I bought my first carbon shoes this summer, and will first use them (besides some training days to get accustomed) at Chicago. I’m an older runner, not too fast but not too slow. So we’ll see; maybe that 4% boost will at least leave me less shattered at the Finish Line.
BTW - Kudos to Coach Lindsay on London! And hope to see Coach Shona at Chicago!!
I don't see a problem here.
Carbon shoes do last if you don't drag your feet over the ground like a limp donkey. Heel strikers should look for something else as they in general destroy any shoe in no time. They are like people driving in slammed cars with extreme camber, wearing and grinding their tires out way quicker.
Depends which ones. My Hoka Carbon X2, do seem to be durable although I run in them mostly on a track, and occasionally an asphalt Parkrun. On the other hand my Alphaflys the outsole already looked like it had had 200 miles in them after just the first HM.
@@82vitt People think it's worn out when the paint layer is worn off. Sure it looks quite disgusting however it doesn't impact the performance unless bits of foam start falling off like those from that guy on UA-cam has that ran over 2500 miles on a pair. Or if you puncture an airpod.
I'm a heel striker and get at least 800km out of all my shoes, including my Alphaflys which I adore above all others!! Going on 1000km now for my Novablasts!! No injuries either, and I do 400+km per month, even up to 500km!! Even my retired shoes still look great actually!!
@@davidh5429 What paint are you on about clown lol. The sole foam is unpainted broken white colour. I am talking about cracks that start appearing on the surface of it just after a couple runs. The Nike React foam does degrade in terms of energy return the more you run. How quickly it degrades will also depend on the runner's weight. A 48kg girl won't thrash a pair nearly as fast as a 80kg man.
@@82vitt You ask a question followed by an insult, showing to all you lack common sense and half a brain. The content of your rambling shows you lack knowledge regarding the Alphafly as well as it has no react foam, it instead has zoomx which is only covered by a super thin layer of rubber paint.
The data suggests the carbon plate shoes help runners with poor mechanics much more than elites with superior mechanics. My opinion is the rocker encourages and enhances a later and more powerful toe-off. Runners are sort of forced to use their hip flexors more, which greatly improves efficiency, in my opinion. A more extended foot behind the hips at toe-off changes the launch vector to have a bigger horizontal forward component, which makes up for a lot of poor front side inefficiencies in the stance phase (braking, etc).
I bought some carbon running shoes for a 10k .. the shoes arrived the previous day, so, I did my normal 6k morning trail run … just to see if it was worth trying them in the 10k. HUGE MISTAKE. I guess if I was an experienced technical runner I’d have known better, but, within 2 minutes I had seriously rolled my ankle … and got a heel blister (low profile socks … another mistake). So, my lively pink, carbon fiber shoes are back on the shelf … waiting for the next 10k race. I’m actually looking forward to my next race, for the first time, at 66,I’m ran a sub 60 minute 10k (with a serious lower leg muscle pull from the “roll” and a painful heel.)
I don't use it for training n always use for race day
The problem is those supershoes wear out quickly, and thats all.
I paid 0.75€ per KM.
Oooo controversial! I have raced in carbon shoes, but they are not matching the hype for me. I will be running London Marathon this Sunday in non carbon plated shoes. Shocking eh? 🤔
The reason why there are so many different shoe models out there is because everyone is different. Choose the shoe that works best for you. Simple.
Thanks, I agree! Hype and high prices.
@@madmaf6011 crazy world! LOL
@@AncoraImparoPiper indeed that is my philosophy too.
No one carbon fiber shoes are the same. I have Nike (4%, Next% 1&2, Alphafly), Adidas (Pro 3, Prime X), Saucony (Pro 1&3), Hoka (X & X-SPE), Brooks (Elite). Nike (4% & Next%) are the least problematic (if there is any problem at all) to me. Running form is more an issue to the knee then the shoes in general. Unfortunately, all the shoes are different, you need to adjust your running form to run on different shoes.
Ive noticed that an agressive toe off design with a high stack mid feels similar to the carbon plated mid . Agressive rocker non carbon mids seem to feel the same as my carbon plated shoe (probably the plate keeps the rocker more consistent ever so slightly) . But this is only my personal opinion
They are awesome. Love my Nike shoes
Heel strikers shouldn't use them in general. The PEBA foam is too unstable and would have a tendency to cause knee ligament issues. Also don't train in them as Parry says, you need to develop foot strength and flexibility for injury prevention.
I am a heel striker and I develop foot strength with strength and conditioning exercises.
Life is too short to not enjoy running in fast shoes.
I am a barefoot runner and am also 53 now. I've been completely barefoot for 8 years except when I run trails and particularly bad roads. That's when I wear Vibrams. I think the foot in itself provides enough and more energy return through the arch but only once it has gained its optimal strength. The main issue with carbon shoes is it makes your feet and joints progressively weak and therefore in the long run you are more prone to injuries. One has to weigh the pros and cons and match them to your aspirations. You should ask yourself do you want to run faster in the short term or do you want to run longer and faster for many years in the long term? In that response lies your answer to whether or not to run in carbon shoes.
The question is: where is the evidence that running in carbon plated shoes weakens your feet and joints. Most serious runners do foot , leg and ankle strengthening exercises anyway so I can't see the shoes being an issue . Plus, I am fairly sure that most runners do not wear carbon plated shoes for every run; mostly these are reserved for actual races or specific workouts.
I used a carbon shoe in my first marathon and a regular running shoe in my second. What I noticed is that on my 2nd marathon my feet were acking afterwards way more than in my first even though I was just marginally faster.
Thanks for that, sounds great, I will have to run out and buy some.
Not worried about the price, of course. Like the UK government I can issue some bonds. If that doesn't work I can just print some more money. And if that causes hyper inflation and economic collapse we can have a rethink and maybe go without any shoes at all.
As a barefoot/minimalist runner I just chuckle to myself when I see people running around wearing these trampolines on their feet. It's basically cheating as far as I'm concerned. It's like a cycling race on an electric bicycle or doing a high jump competition with a hydraulic pogo stick..
Hm. Not quite :D
@@AncoraImparoPiper felt that way for me. Pebax foam and a plate makes me feel like Inspector Gadget running around on spring shoes lol.
My heart rate is down, my pace is up, and recovery is easier. What's not to love about these shoes?
@@markfrock5322 that's like saying my muscles are bigger, my lifts are skyrocketing, and I recover incredibly fast, what's not to love about steroids? For your own pleasure, if it makes you feel like a better runner, knock yourself out. When these shoes first hit professional runners suddenly saw massive instant improvements and they started smoking other runners they otherwise wouldn't have stood a chance against. There was serious debate about banning these types of shoes from competition and I tended to agree. There's a point where the tech just kind of goes too far and for my caveman brain this is where I draw the line. I've used them, they feel too unnatural, and I generally just don't like them.
I agree with you. I am a minimalist running shoe person. The carbon in these platform shoes make people artificially faster but they actually not as fast ... Its cheating in my mind.....
Thanks, this was helpful!
Do you have a recommendation on brands with a larger heel? Nike Vaporfly feels a little small but I’d be interested in possibly trying others if they’re different.
The new Saucony Endorphin Pro3 is stable .and looking good for 400+ miles
It's almost as fast as the Vaporfly but probably more durable and useful for different training
@@lifephorce I have just ordered these the pro 2 as couldn't get the 3 in my size wonder if this is just as good for the support ?
@@jenniferedwards1269 I've got the Pro1 the Pro2 is very similar.. it's a good shoe a bit firm for most
It's just not in the same league as the pro3
Back in 1992 or 93 I had several pairs of Brooks Magnums that had a carbon plate that they called a Propulsion Plate System in addition to their Hydroflow cushioning. The plate was pretty thin, flat, and it was between the midsole and the outsole. Also it was tapered so that that it only extended under the big toe. They were fairly standard training shoes rather than racing shoes and the plate functioned more like a rock shield than today's plates do. But I do remember those shoes working very well for me.
Brooks tried to bring the carbon plate back in a shoe around 2000 but they made it too thick and it made the shoe too inflexible. I remember that I tried on the shoes in a shoe store in Seattle and it turned out that the ultramarathoner Scott Jurek worked there.