How to Power your House with an Inverter or Generator During a Power Outage Part 3/3
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- In this video series I describe how you can safely and inexpensively power your house with an inverter during a power outage by using only existing house wiring. Please see my video on how HOT to connect an inverter to your House Mains to see some common problems people run into when attempting this. The method shown here works well, but please check local codes/regulations before attempting.
I cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information or improper use of this information. I assume no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. Be sure to read and follow all safety instructions for any equipment seen or implied in this video, and use safe practices when working with potentially dangerous equipment. No information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user.
Great job and as a Facilities Manager for over 15 years, you do an excellent job of explaining safety showing the laymen all the details. I will be using this for training of my crews.
+David DeRoche
The method depicted in this video is not code approved. This means that if you knowingly wire a facility using this method your property and liability insurance would likely be null and void.
As a facilities manager you probably have a good relationship with your local building inspector and Fire Marshal. Do you think it would be a good idea to call one of them before trusting your facilities (and your job) to a complete stranger named Knurlgnar?
yes, its perfect with Code. You must not be upto with any training. I just used it at my last career day my entire crew is much better off. I am King where I work.
David DeRoche , i have a garden. it is picked clean every morning and I keep a very tall fence around it. is it possible that another world is under us? and there are people there who are grey with big eyes? and are picking it clean? my best guess they are joy riding in with a ship or have a sort of tunnel that they camouflage with a hologram. how do i stop them from picking my garden. i am in the dark and dont have Solar power. please help if you please
OK, now I want a bigger inverter and more batteries! Thanks knurlgnar great video series!
I'm good for 3 days lol The sun will come out tomorrow!
FYI as a matter of interest, I posted this video while on battery backup power due to a power outage. It is just after sunset and is already -20F outside. It is a good thing I have emergency power and heat!
HKPolice
There are Chinese clones of the Yamaha and Honda type generators that are very reasonably priced, but they're also junk. There are many brands out there now including Honeywell, Generac, Champion, etc. I would assume some of them are OK but I haven't disassembled one to check it out.
***** I bought one I agree junk!!! after a hour run things loosen up and you have to tighten (sorry just junk)
I found a Xantrex ProWatt2000 with a 230v outlet. What about a SUICIDE cord from the Xany to a 240v outlet in my laundry room? What about getting power to the Xany by hooking to my Suburban battery while its idling/running? That way both rails get energized and the Xany has enough input juice! Your thoughts????? I know, suicide, THANKS!!!!
William B
An idling Suburban may not generate as much power as you'd like. Think something like 400W - the rest will come from the battery.
Unfortunately the 230v inverter cannot be used to power both phases unless you run it through a distribution transformer first because you need the center tap, which that inverter does not provide. The method shown here works with a 120V inverter. If you have a 240V inverter and connect it to a dryer outlet you'll have unbalanced phases which will likely cause significant damage to 120V applicances. I wouldn't try it!
I looked at your youtube again and thought it strange that feeding the two 120v legs to your fuse box from one 120v Inverter would work. I thought my 240v Inverter method would be better. Looks like your right and I'm not, the proff's in the puddin'. My Suburban puts out 15.5+ volts at Idle which is an Overvolt condition for most Inverters. Longer 1/0 cables to the Inverter should drop my voltage about 1/4 to 1/2 volt keeping the Inverter from shutting down. How does that sound? THANKS!!! Sorry it took so long to reply, I had a heart attack. Lucky me.....
When you unplugged that cord and meter at 12:55 was the male plug on that meter hot?
thank you, you have answered allot of my questions. I usually only run off one side in my panel.
Nice job explaining exactly how the circuits are wired in this video series. You also made it a point to say that backfeeding your panel without a proper transfer switch is a code violation. I do hope you're aware that if you have a house fire, your insurance company will use this video as proof that you had an illegal hookup and probably won't pay your claim. You've got a nice looking Square D panel there. You could probably get the breaker interlock that fits it for less than $75.
Came across this channel wondering about synchronizing the output of two inverters to keep them from drifting out of phase. You've done some really neat stuff.
I did have to laugh though, at the beginning of this particular video series, you give a huge warning about using two different inverters (one for each leg). Talking about how the inverters would interact negatively with each other via the 240 volt devices. Then in the last video, you shut all of the 240 volt breakers off anyway, making the use of two separate inverters very possible.
Either way, I really like this channel. I'll definitely be watching to find more inspiration for other projects for my surplus UPS's and batteries.
I really like your series. Very well done. Very well explained. Thanks.
I enjoyed the series , so thanks for sharing. I also really enjoyed reading all of the comments. Double the entertainment. I haven't checked all of your other videos yet , but I'd love to see a split phase inverter set up. At this point , it sounds like the most logical way to go ( if you want to still use the 240 loads). Besides , you never know when you may need to use a 240 volt inverter type welder when the power is out. What are your options?
I did not experience any of the problems you ran into. I installed a double pole double throw manual switch below my outside panel. When the lever is in the up position my house runs off the electric company. When the handle is in the down position the electric company is disconnected and I can connect my Honda EU2000i to the switched terminals. This allows my house to either be fed from the electric company or my generator without any worry of crossing up the two. I bridged the 240v terminals together for the hot feed so that both sides of my breaker panel is receiving 120v from the generator. Of course the neutral/ground is wired directly. I had no problems with my GFCI outlets. They continued to work as designed. Nothing tripped out. I switched off all 240v breakers in the outside and inside panels before running the generator to prevent shorting it. The only breakers left were the 120v ones. I was able to run anything in the house that did not overload the generator. The 1500w microwave was too much for it but the fridge, lights, TV, computer, phones and alarm system ran just fine. I recommend changing your light bulbs to flourescent type to help keep the generator unloaded. Incandescent lights can eat up a lot of watts. I don't know why you experienced so many problems trying to back feed your outlets but I assure you the way I did it is much safer and a lot easier. The manual transfer switch is not outrageously expensive but you will be dealing with some direct feed from the power company when installing the switch so you may need an electrician to help you. The installation is permanent once installed and that makes it very easy to set up your house for 120v generator feed at any time. By the way, my house has standard breakers, not the new arc prevention type. I don't know how those new breakers react to this setup. Please be careful and if in doubt get an electrician to advise or help you.
Thank you. Answered many questions that I had. Had no idea that GFI's could create a problem. Got one in the kitchen, so I'll need to figure that one out. Turning off the 240v circuits is a good idea, plus any unnecessary energy hogs. Like you, I'll try a dry run first. Thanks again.
A dry run is the most important step. Run your house as if the power went out while you do 'normal' activities (so long as the wife allows) and see how it works out. There is a lot to be learned.
Thank you for your videos and for sharing excellent information. I worked with DC power for years also some commercial gensets so can appreciate your resource. I'm retired in rural Maritimes where power failures are not uncommon, so am thinking I will rig a small solar array, charge controller and some deep cycle rescued marine batteries with a small pure sine inverter to run a few things rather than crank up the elderly Honda.
Thanks for the video series. Great to see you work through the failures and issues. I ran a 220/240 50 Amp fused box off my main a long time ago to power a heated press and knee mill. So I used this to back feed from my Bluetti 500's plugged into the split phase infusion box. This allowed me to maintain my 240V service throughout, but it sure sucks the batteries quick, so I am replacing some of my 240V appliances to see if I can really live off grid as I build up my solar panels from 3000 to 6000 watts. The 10KWH batteries are great for everything except Electric water heating and whole house AC. I am also going to need to add a couple small AC units and I will also need to increase battery backup volume, adding 8 KWH more soon.
Thanks Steve. I've had the same issues with my 15-20kwh battery bank. It can run the central AC and water heater but not practical to do so. Mini-splits or window AC units would be more practical in bedrooms or small areas and with hot water, well, hot water takes a huge amount of energy. Not much getting around that except to conserve and reduce usage.
I enjoyed all 3 parts of your inverter videos. In part 3 you talk about not using a GFCI outlet to back feed into your system, (the one in your garage). I get that, but I have a couple questions.
1. Do I need to remove all GFCI receptacles in the house in order to back feed both phases of my elec. panel in order to energize the whole panel?
2. Or can I leave in the GFCI's, for example in the kitchen and bathroom, as long as I do not plug anything in to them or the outlets downstream from them?
3. Would everything work fine as long as I did not plug anything in to the kitchen and bathroom circuits that have GFCI's?
4. Or could I leave the kitchen and bathroom GFCI's in place and plug things into those circuits without causing a problem for the inverter?
Thanks for all your interesting videos!
Thank you for the series/tutorial, it was awesome!
Hey knurlgnar, I'd sure like to see some new content. You do a great job!
Is there a way to power your inverter with 2 separate battery banks, and automatically switch between battery banks while charging the other one?
A way around the heating issue (if you have a 240V central heater), especially at night and especially if you like a lot of light, is to use old style 120V (or 130V) incandescent lights. I have 3 of those, 300W each. The light they put out is intense, especially when all 3 are illuminated. 3700 lumens each for a total of 11,110 lumens but they can also heat a room. Something like that would work well in a cold garage, providing both heat and light. Probably a good idea to blow a fan on low across them to help circulate the heat and somewhat cool the lights.
Thats funny knurlgnar I just had a power outage the other day myself, and used my inverter setup too! Luckily it was only about 3 hours. Good video series, though suicide cords scare me a bit, you saved more money than I did with a t-switch setup
Awesome video. Thanks. If one already had a 220V 30amp breaker set up to run a generator using a L14-30P plug and wanted to utilize that to run the inverter also (not at same time) could one use a 2X 5-15P Male Generator to 4 Prong 30 Amp Female (Amazon search) cord to go between the inverter and plug, making sure to cut off the ground terminal? Also if the inverter had hardwire capabilities could one make up a whip using the hardwire section on one end and L14-30R on the other?
Man, this is so awesome!!! I love it way better than using an internal combustion engine to generate power. I wonder how long those 1000 AH batteries can keep most of the house going without being charged by solar?
lights all on one side, move a few trip relays in load box. may not even have to remove any wires, depending on how much play in wires. fridge would be a good start. Trade with one above or below. Thanks for vids!
Hi,,very nice job,,
Could you tell me if it's what you said ,,
on your power inverter did you disconnect the ground on it ?
Good stuff man, the UA-cam community always has the answers for me. :-) Where did you buy that Xantrex inverter from?
I'm looking at one of those cheaper inverters on eBay and curious if it would work. If I understood everything (from the video series), what I'm looking for is a split phase with two 110 outlets.
I'm not too concerned with the safety hazards of interfacing with the mains breaker because this will all be on a separate breaker completely isolated from the power company's mains. The idea is to slowly migrate from the grid to an off-grid setup, one breaker at a time - scaling the panels and batteries as I go.
The inverter I'm looking at is labeled as "3000W LF Split Phase Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter DC 24V to AC 220V & 110V 60Hz". I'd ideally like to go with 24V or more because of the longer-ish cable runs from the solar panels to the charge controller, and keeping everything on 24V seems like a better idea. Add in the fact that 24V is more efficient AND cheaper (the 12V counterpart being about double the cost).
Thoughts?
when you backfeed your service entrance panel via your inverter, do you ground fault outlets work (i.e. kitchen and bathroom receptacles)?
i noticed your batteries were 12.9v, then you put a load on the inverter and then it dropped to 12.6v, which i do expect a small drop. then about 1 minute later it dropped again to 12.4v. this seems like a fast drop in voltage for such small load on the that good size battery bank. i have seen less voltage drops using a single 100ah agm with larger loads. was that a new battery bank? i see a lot of people buying them used. maybe video editing is playing tricks on me? when you cam in from the top to show the batteries they were skiny and orange, i assumed some sort of lithium, but when you came in from the back it was a wet cell deep cycle, just curious if you mix and match batteries? also, i am trying to learn about ac power, i have been playing with inverters for years, anyways to me it seems like you just used the circuits that are normally used for "phasing" and treated them as separate circuits, right? you kept calling it phase one and phase two, but that is not what really is going on if i understand correctly, your inverter only has one phase and on that one phase two extension chords simply back fed into the breaker box. so when one circuit is using 400watts ac and the other was using 15watts ac, its like you had a small led light plugged into one of the outlets on your inverter and a powerful desktop computer plugged into the other...nothing to do with phases, right?
Great Video and Info. Just a general question for now. So if I was to used your design and tune my mains off. And hook up a 12-48V dc power supply say from Wind/solar/batteries (Crystal) I could have power for my home and it would run all electrical Appliances/Hot water.dryer/oven etc.?
Cheers
Craig
I did what you showed in your video but I can not get all the lights and other items powered up. Is there another reason why it won't work? Do love your videos. Very informative.
What kind of battery bank do you have set up for this system also type of inverter? Thank you by the way , very informative 👍 👏 🙏 👌 😀
I currently use 12 100Ah Powersafe SBS batteries connected in 3 sets of 4 for 48V. At the time of this video I had about 10 of them connected in parallel for a 12V system. I just tested them out on a simulated power outage yesterday and they still work great. 10 years old and heavily sulfated in a scrap pile when I obtained them. Batteries last longer than most people realize if taken care of. Thanks for the comment.
Thanks for sharing like always GJ, not i need more batteries and a bigger inverter lol thanks again.
So what happens when you burn down the house and the insurance company discovers this setup plugged in and refuses to pay out insurance ?
AuMechanic then you are fucked
I have an electric sofa and need to make it work when the power goes out, but I don't know how. It has a regular plug to the wall. Can you please help me?
Awesome video,sir!! I am without electric service on my home due to excessive charges by my electric provider.
running seperate generators on home not to electrical panels. I have electric cords run to power critical loads for a few hours per day, not constant 24hr use like grid. will certainly review these vids to cover all bases before I follow your lead I this fight for freedom from tyranny!!
Is it possible to charge the batteries while your home circuits are working off the inverter with the power being generated?
One more thing.
Is the inverter's neutral bonded as in most generators?
As you know a stand alone generator has a bonded neutral so if you want to connect it to your panel you need a transfer switch that switches the neutral or you need to unbond the neutral at the generator.
It seems that few experts even understand the implications of having the bonding present at 2 locations at the same time.
Electrical code is pretty clear on this issue.
I'm trying to build a off the grid system but need a 8000w pure sin wave inverter, can you recommend a good brand for my money. Great information on your videos.
Is it possible to use 1 outlet from the inverter into a 50amp dryer? You briefly mentioned it. Would you connect the 2 lines into 1 prong then neutral and ground? Any downside?
Hi there I've watched your three vids about backfeeding inverter o/p into home wiring and I'm glad I live in the UK. We don't have the split phase system here. The mains outlets and lighting are all 240V. So after isolating the incoming breaker, backfeeding the inverter into any sockett powers everything (within inverter limits). I wonder, if U got a 240V inverter & wired it across the two phase lines would U be able to power everything also?
Your system is much simpler in the UK, here in the USA powering 240V only would cause a severe voltage imbalance on the 120V circuits and destroy most everything on the 120V circuits. Perhaps I should have mentioned that... :)
great video .. I am using extension to few 110 things and getting more 12 volt things set up
Excellent video tutorial. Thank you
Semper Fi
Very very very interesting. I now see how I can use this to go solar.
I do have another question, As long as the inverter is not hooked to a GFCI circuit, is it still ok to have GFCI's on some other circuit that is still powered by the inverter? Or must you turn off all GFCI's in the house?
Hi I have learned so much from your chanel .. I want to thank you ..but I didn't have a you tube account. ....so thank again
So ground is taken out of plug - even on pure sign wave inverters? I have done this before with a generator with ground - and it worked fine. I am planning to use a 240 hot water heater circuit that is no longer used. For safety, I am planning to use a marine shore power plug. Setting up backup power using solar.
Thank you so much for the videos. How many batteries did you use and for how long ?
Whay do you backfeed (witch is dangerous) youre house thru the outlets when there is proper outlets that sertified poolple can install for you as it should be beside the breakerbox ?
I like eric the car guy. Been watching him for a few years now.
I see that you did it using the pre-wired cords. The inverter that I have doesn't have outlets, and I can't figure out how, if at all possible, to supply both phases from 120v output of my inverter. (Which is what you did here, correct?)
I haven't looked through all your videos yet but are you incorporating any solar to charge your battery bank and/or grid tie and rollback your meter? Solar panels have come down so much in price ($.84/w) it's very appealing and lot of fun to play with too
I purchased some solar panels on auction a few years ago but haven't set them up yet. I don't have the best location for solar and this part of the country has inexpensive electricity, no local subsidies, no net metering, and little sunlight - not a good combination. I may play around with it some at some point. If I lived in a rural area I'd do a lot more with it. Thanks for the sub!
I do enjoy your videos!
in this video you gave a illustration on how to set up or connect to your service box for the 110 volt inverter by your drawing. how would one hook to service box for a 220 volt inverter would be nice to see a drawed out description for this my inverter is 220v buy the way thanks for sharing your wisdom with us you did a grate job explaining it all
thanks
Do you live in a country that has single phase 220V? If so it should be more straightforward than here where we have split phase, but I don't feel that I should comment on specifics being I have not personally worked with electrical systems in other countries. I am familiar with NEC.
***** i live in tazewell tn. USA
Do you know if there any special considerations if I were to rerun your experiment using a 3000w LF inverter?
What do you do about the two 110 volt being in the same phase? Shouldn't they be 180 degree out of phase for the 220v? Thanks
Why not keep the ground fault outlet in your garage- one phase. On that new non- GFI outlet, wire it in a new box jand wire each part of the outlet (top/ bottom), each on different phases. May not be practical, if your circuit breaker is upstairs, and far from the garage. Just a thought.
I actually did do something similar. I made a dual gang 20A outlet that plugs into my dryer outlet giving me both phases easily available in one location.
+knurlgnar24 Please how do I wire it? My dryer outlet is not being used the dryer works on gas. Thank you in advance for any help
So I need my 240vAC circuits as my well pump and other essentials are on 240vAC. Guess I need to source a 240vAC inverter with bonded Neutral? I've got a dedicated 240 outlet in my garage for my welder I can use for backfeed
I would like to hook an inverter up to the 12 volt battery in my Chevy volt and power my house in an emergency situation . I have a 220 volt plug in near my car which the EV charger plugs into. Would it be possible to use some sort of suicide cord from the inverter to the 220 volt Plug-In?
Note, the 12 volt battery is charged by the Volt battery pack and when that runs low the internal combustion engine turns on to charge it.
Interesting project and I very much like the idea. (And the now discontinued Chevy Volt) However I don't think tapping the 12V battery is a good idea unless you're only wanting a few hundred watts of power for lighting and electronics. The Volt's DC/DC converter isn't capable of long term high currents. If you are able to find what the continuous amperage rating is let me know as I'd be interested, but I expect it is somewhere around 500W and even that would be very hard on it and reduce its life due to high temperatures.
can you do a video on how to hardwire a inverter to a service panel??
Very helpful info for 2020.
Do You mind to show how to keep your battery's charging at the same time that you use your 3000W inverter generator
I really like this one. Good job. Show us some more stuff. -BAG2
Nice video with great explanations. I have a Chevy Volt that runs on a 16 kWh battery. When it is powered on, it will also keep its 12 V battery fully charged. I also have a 7 kW solar system on my home connected to a grid tied inverter. The grid tied inverter automatically turns off if a sine wave grid is not detected. My idea is to use a 1500/3000 W, 240 V inverter connected to the Volt's 12 V battery to backfeed my home during an outage. This 240 V inverter plugged into a 240 V outlet should require just one modified cord I believe. I would also plug my Volt into a 110 V garage circuit to charge the 10 kWh battery. This would allow the Volt's main battery to be solar charged during the day and essentially run my house in perpetuity during a nuclear winter. Does this make sense?
I'm not sure what continuous current capability the Chevy Volt has for converting to 12V. I'd guess it will only do 60A or so comfortably with double that for short periods. If the loads you want to power are under 600W or so this might work OK. EVs are great sources for battery power if you can tap off of the main battery but there aren't many great solutions for doing that today as far as I am aware.
Great concept! Would it work with a 2400W inverter?
Yes. I use this on a 20kw inverter today but through a 240V power receptacle.
So how do you get your 240v appliances working. If you had both circuits powered wouldn't your stove be able to work? Would you have to do anything special?
+ryan m You need a 240v split phase inverter.
Are you able to use the 220v breakers with this setup? Not counting the fact that you need a bigger inverter. ;) but does the 220v circuits work like they should?
No, both Lines are in phase and so if you switched on those 240vAC breakers you'd read 0vAC across the X and Y lines even though you have 120vAC from X to Neutral and 120vAC from Y to Neutral. On mains power, the X and Y lines are 180 degrees out of phase so you get 240vAC from X to Y.
Same phase not opposite phase. Got it.
Thanks!
Couldn't you wire your battery into the house's electrical system so that it could provide clean power through the batteries? This would provide no loss of power when the power went out and would have the benefit of charging the batteries when the power was restored.
Forgive me if this is a stupid question. I'm not an electrically inclined person and I'm learning lots from your videos.
Batteries are DC, house electricity is AC. The voltages are also different and incompatible, which is why we need inverters and battery chargers to connect the two together!
Thanks. That makes sense. Somehow RVs are able to recharge batteries from shore power (DC)
David Daugherty
RVs have something similar to the Iota DLS45 that I use in some of my videos. It is an AC input 12V DC output battery charger. RVs also sometimes have DC lights and appliances that they run off of the 12V system. When running on shore power it goes through the battery charger to run those 12v appliances.
Liked it!
But why don't you change over to LED light bulbs as the quality of light is really quiet good now! and only uses a 10th of the power!
Why some RCD work on some inverters but not on others hence they trip when you connected them to a short circuit bulb for testing. With a IVT Sinus 1200W Pure Sine it worked but with a Xantex 4548E it didn't on the same house hold, same MCB same RCD (Hager CD241J) all I changed is the Inverter.
So to understand this, you switched your main breaker then pluged in your invertor to use existing wiring. Is this simplified version correct?
Yes. However I would not encourage anyone to do this unless they have a good understanding of what can go wrong. Making a mistake can have consequences which is why I made a longer video than just a few minutes. The safest method is just to run extension cords if you have them.
@@knurlgnar24 hi, yes I saw your other video explaining the flaw in my logic and how dangerous it is. I was just looking to power lights on a power out situation. Thanks, it's definitely gave me food for thought
@@tourbike I wouldn't consider it a flaw Patrick, if learning is a flaw then then fools are the wisest men. Best of luck.
Cool ! Thanks for the video !
So, went to home depot and picked up the parts. Using an out door dbl gang box with two 20amp outlet, I took one hot of the dryer cable to the left outlet and the other hot to the right outlet. I then jumped the neutral to both outlets and hooked the dryer cable neutral to the right outlet. Does the neutral sound right? thanks, E.
Sounds like it will work and that's what I would have done. Keep in mind that neutral also needs to be able to carry full current, so if you connect the neutral to just one outlet and feed the other outlet off of the 1st, then that outlet will potentially need to carry the full 30A of the circuit which it isn't designed to do. As always just be smart and safe, take the necessary precautions, and it will be good. That's why I like the metal box - not only is it durable for throwing on the floor and whatnot, but it also is highly unlikely to start a fire if something goes wrong.
***** Cool thanks! I think running a 1000w inverter wont load the system too much. Maybe I will take it apart and butt splice a Y to the neutral thus each outlet shares it a bit more. Thanks for the vids! Would love to hear your opinion on running a battery/inverter system like this while it is being charged by a automotive batt charger that is being powered from a generator. IE should work-pitfalls-ect. My system is a 1000watt Champion genny to a 15amp automatic battery charger to a 4x group 31 12v batt bank to the xantrex pw1000. I would run the genny during the day and just batts at night. Obvious load management would be in place.
Thanks again.
Interesting to see the "earth leakage" (as we call it here) integrated into the socket. In South Africa we have 230V as in Europe, but it is not a split-rail supply. There is one residual current breaker (or earth leakage) in the DB board. In theory a suicide cord would work perfectly (save of course that you can still put more than 20A through the wiring on the circuit that you're back-feeding into) here. I usually advise people against it though... it's just way too dangerous :-)
Thank you that was very interesting
Very well done!
I have a gas generator that only has 120v 20amp outlets on it. Can I run 2 suicides chords from the 2 generator outlets to 2 separate house outlets that are on different phases to get 120 to both like you did. I have to spare spots on the breaker where I was going to add 2 outlets 1outlet on each breaker so that those breakers are only for emergency generator power. The breaker are next to each other on the right side phase so I know one of them connect to the right phase and the other the left. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Yes, it will work as you intend with all of the functional and safety issues discussed in the video. Please take care as this method works in an emergency but obviously isn't the safest way to do it!
What happens when you hit your garage door opener?? That's pretty critical.
The door opens?
I did this with my APC unite to power the lights in my shed. I have a 900 watt apc hooked to my battery bank. and it all seems to work pretty good my battery bank has not really had a good load on it until to day with winds up to 30 mph, so I used it to help keep my bank normal. and it has stayed charged for along time.
Sorry unless your on the coast ? Solar is the way to go!!!!
Don't Waste your time on wind ! unless your on the water!!!
I'm surprised you didn't go with 48V, heavy loads are a lot more efficient on 48V than 12V
Efficiency isn't directly related to battery system voltage in actual practice, though higher DC voltages do trend towards higher efficiencies. The inverter used in this video is >90% over nearly all of its practical operational range which is very good. Few 48V inverters accomplish this. Today I have a 48V inverter for this setup and it peaks below 90% efficiency but can power heavier loads.
@@knurlgnar24 true, but cable losses are much more detrimental at lower system voltages, resulting in less usable capacity, I used to run a 12V system with a 4.5kw Inverter and 20kwh battery bank made from junkyard cell tower batteries (which showed around 90% health) and even with dual 4/0 AWG cables I would easily lose 2V on the DC side under full load, effectively cutting my battery life by 70% due to cable losses when running at or near full load
Eventually I gave up, sold the inverter, bought a 48V model, reconfigured the battery bank to run at 48V, and under the same load, I got around 0.8V of drop
These days I'm running 52V from a 12kwh lithium ion battery bank made from Nissan Leaf modules
i had the same cam battery charger and it ran off modded sinewave ? so yours will
so i have a sun-2500p/48 240 with output wave (spstm) semi-pure sine wave. ? will it has it's own ground plug and 2 20amp 240vac wall plugs that look like 120v on the front of it. but its diagram shows it as 240vac 20amp {x2 wall plugs} and the front ground. i was gong to use a 25amp 240 circuit breaker from the inverter to breaker box, and the ground of the inverter and box to earth. ,, until i saw your videos. ok so its for a garage that has never hand power to it and its 100% off grid. so no house appliances or gfci to deal with.
so plz what do i do to power this bad boy up??
What's the make and model of your clamp meter?
+yoochoooob thank you, for that. Appriciated.
Have you tried to hookup the battery charger to the inverter to charge the batteries at the same time using the inverter to supply power to the house? Would it work?
+1wasimtiger Yes you can, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE EXTERNAL POWER COMING IN from somewhere. For instance, you could take a little Honda (or similar - not bothered about the brand) generator that makes 1600 watts. Run the generator, plug the charger into the generator, and charge the batteries while you pull power from the inverter.
Why would you want to do this rather than just running the generator to the house circuits? There are advantages which may overcome the complications (usually I'm against complications, but sometimes you can't avoid them). Say your wife *really, REALLY* wants to run her hair dryer while the coffee is being made. In the bathroom, the lights are on and the fan is running -- call that 100W and the hair dryer is 1500W. Already you're using the all the generator output. But if you turn on the coffee maker, and add 1300W you'd overload the generator is you were wired direct.
But if the generator is powering the charger through the batteries and the inverter, it's no problem, the "extra" power is taken from the batteries. After she's finished drying her hair, turned off the bathroom light and fan, and come in to settle down to coffee and a nice breakfast, you may only be pulling a few watts through your house (no matter, you MUST reduce your power loads). Then the generator still pulls along at 1600W (or whatever current your charger requires) and that current brings your batteries back up to 100% charge.
A byproduct of this is that when you need to, you can turn off your generator, let it cool for a while, fill the fuel tank and check it over to be sure it's OK. During this time, your house is running off the batteries. When you restart the gennie, again the "used power" from the batteries is made up. In the same way, if you've reduced your loads and have a suitable battery bank, you can switch off your generator at night and sleep quietly while battery/inverter powers your thermostat for your gas heating system, your fridge, and your alarm clock. Just as before, get up in the AM, start the gennie and you're ready for the day with the overnight power being replaced into the batteries.
Again, you 'll notice I said "AS LONG AS YOU HAVE EXTERNAL POWER COMING IN".
(NOTE: Check on your components, some cheaper electronic items are not sophisticated enough to support this and this they don't this system won't work. But with the right gear, it works like a charm.)
+1wasimtiger
You have stumbled into a truly important question. This question reveals the complete misunderstanding most folks have of electricity. It's my guess is that Knurlgnar hasn't tried what you suggest because he understands the concept of conservation of energy and knows that connecting a battery bank to itself creates a closed system with inherent energy losses such that less energy goes back into the battery then comes out, thus depleting the battery not charging it.
Questions like this make it obvious that a large percentage of people watching this video series do not understand anything about electricity or physics and these videos are dangerous for people at that level of understanding.
Do not connect your house to emergency power using the method depicted in this video series. It is dangerous. It will void your homeowners insurance.
I would love to know what seemed to flash and bang inside your expensive inverter.. Sure that was a lamp switching on briefly? Lol
I seen that to
So how would you make a suicide cord for a three prong dryer plug? I think I know how, but how would you do it? Luv the vids! Good job!
Every situation is different and the best approach depends on your end goals. If I were to use a 240V outlet for backfeeding I would purchase a steel quad-outlet box, install two dual 20A outlets, and wire it up to an old dryer tag cord one outlet on each phase. That way I could use the assembly to get additional 120V outlets breakered at 30A for whatever special purpose that might come up, or use it to access backfeeding. I could then still use the 15A suicide cord(s) for anyplace that only had standard outlets.
***** I have a 7.5 kw generator that I can back feed my whole house with through the dryer circuit. I installed a four prong twist lock outlet with a disconnect just past the dryer outlet. Plan is to run that very short term, due to the genny's fuel consumption and the noise. Its awesome to have that much juice on hand but not nessesary most of time. When I dont need that much power my plan is to run stuff off a 400ah batt bank with a xantrac prowatt 1000. I have a 1000 watt Champion genny that is quiet and VERY good on fuel that I will run a batt charger off of to charge the bank. So, I thought I could cut a 12ga extension cord into two lengths, on one end of each put a two prong male[ pos and neutral] then get a three prong dryer male and take one pos from each length to the pos prongs on the dryer male and then combine both neutrals to the neutral post of the dryer plug. Obviously not use the ground. Would that be ok? Would be easy and cheap.
eman3082000 Just reread your answer, that seems like the way to go. Thanks, u da man.
I have a question I have an aims split phase inverter 240v. It has a ground and two hot inputs, and two hots and a neutral for the out put. So I have a l14-30p inlet to a double pole 30amp breaker to backfeed do I need to connect my ground? To backfeed it? Or just both hots and neutral?
Connect both hots and the neutral. Do not connect the ground for an emergency power situation as it will cause complications that are not necessary. Backfeeding has its liability dangers as described in the video so do so at your own risk and make certain your mains breakers are always in the OFF position.
@@knurlgnar24 hey i really do appreciate it, I've done this before with my generator and works great and tried it with a cotek 2000 watt inverter with gfci, didn't work until I cut the ground wire. Then it did work.
Could I hook up an inverter to my idling diesel tractor's 12v outlet and to my transfer switch via twistlock plug? I do have a generator, but I would like to have a back up to my back up.
You will need a direct connection to the battery, but yes you could. I'd recommend buying some good heavy clamps such as Deka and a length of 0AWG or thicker welding cable as short as is reasonably possible for functionality and to keep cost down. You can hook it up to any 12V vehicle that way making it more universally useful. That will get you 1kw or so of power. Not a lot but it will run the lights, freezer, furnace fan, etc. Be sure to get a pure sine wave inverter and don't cheap out on it. High quality 2kw unit minimum, or a cheaper quality 3kw or better unit. It'll cost a few hundred dollars unfortunately for the setup but then you won't find that it doesn't work when you need it. When testing it out I'd recommend to load it down and monitor the alternator temperature to make sure you don't cook it. Not all alternators can handle full output continuously. Most tractors can UNLESS you have a 10si on it in which case you'll likely overheat it.
@@knurlgnar24 Thank you, I may look into it. I enjoy pondering these possibilities. The only reason I was thinking of my tractor is that I have 500+ gallons of #2 heating oil in my cellar that I could use to power the tractor in an extended outage. I've looked into 5kw diesel generators but they are at least 3x the cost of a gas one, which I already own. Thanks again.
Just curious if I had a 240V inverter. Would it be possible to connect to my dryer outlet turn off all other 240V items like my AC and such in my breaker panel and also turning off the mains breaker. Would this energize both 120V phases of my house?
If your inverter is 240V split phase then yes, otherwise you will need to connect a transformer to the output to supply 120V for each leg.
knurlgnar24 I will have to look into this. I have an Accurate Tools ATSIU-2500P
knurlgnar24 is there a test that I can do to see if I have 240v split phase
I notice that the problem you encounter about the second face was due to you not plugging the cord properly. Check out the video at 1.35
so u say the 240v wount work, but here is South Africa everything uses 240v? so will there be a different inverter to use?
Yes, in most places that use 240V you only have one phase and the entire process is much simpler - you can use a 240V inverter or generator. Here in the USA we have split phase 120/240 and that is what this video series specifically applies to.
Oky, thanks for the help
Is there any way to charge your batteries from the inverter itself to cycle back into the inverter from any battery drainage I was thinking of running a furnace blower motor off of the inverter with a belt driven to the 100 amp alternator as the alternator is charging the batteries brace everything properly for perfect balance and spin
If I understand you, you want to use a battery to power a motor to drive an alternator to recharge your batteries.
Despite what the many free energy charlatans show you, that will not work. What you are hinting at is what is known as a zero entropy situation. Thermodynamically impossible. Also called a perpetual motion device.
They are all frauds.
why can't you charge the batteries while the inverter is powering the house?
Great job....Peace
Well power on ? I hope you have some video on the blackout!! (I Hope your Warm!!)
Well, I would by choice would have connected it differently as my use case isn't the same. I want Solar, wind and whatever else to be the main source of power with the Grid as my backup. In your use case I guess you could add another battery bank later if the requirement is there for it. From my research I would have to say money wise if new; 6VDC Trojan, 4D or 8D batteries would be batteries of choice for me. Am leaning to a 24VDC system as I don't plan to use the bank for any other applications. But I could install a smail 12VDC system to gain more practical experience with the epuipment. In your last video you did make a good point on the GFCI that I didn't think about as I have a friend that is looking at a similar use case as yourself but he wants to send power back to the grid via GTI when the bank has been fully recharged by redirecting the unused power from his solar panels.
Trojan 4D or 8D is a good choice, but I happened across a lucky score with these Powersafe SBS batteries that were going to be scrapped so I got them cheap. Also, for a serious setup I agree that 24V is more practical however I want to keep everything in mine 12V for flexibility. Everyone's goals are different so this setup works for me but isn't what many others want. It sounds like your setup will be interesting. I've always wanted to do a solar/wind setup but have never had the opportunity.
***** Lucky !!! Hell! Check mate!! on that score! Nice!
What type/brand of batteries were you using?
Powersafe SBS 100F
Hi I would like to know if you think a Power Bright APS1000-12 Pure Sine Power Inverter can be connected to my house?? Thanks
I have looked at the APS1500 and APS2200 models and they were both fully isolated input/output as well as floating ground. I would assume the 1000 model is the same and would be a good candidate for it. (You will need to verify this yourself) Keep in mind that a 1000W inverter will not be able to power much more than lighting loads and a few small appliances like shavers, TVs, computers, etc.
Wouldn't it be easier if one breaker in the breaker panel openned the entire 240V circuit?
So, Step by step what did you do to plugs and outlets to work on house panel.
I prefer not to give step-by-step instructions because of the inherent safety issues with this backfeed approach. This video is about many of the potential problems that could happen, how to avoid them, and to help people understand how backfeeding works which is something a step-by-step would necessarily omit. While it may not be to code in some jurisdictions it can be done safely if a person knows some of these details.
Thanks for answer the two ended cable ends leaves me wonder if all three wires are hooked on each plug ends normal or different, is what not sure of.
Johnson Larry
The answer is: It depends on the setup. On mine I did not connect the grounds for GFI reasons.
that information is help to me thanks.
This all sounds awesome but there is one lingering common question that I haven't seen answered in your video or many other videos I've seen on this! With your battery pack, how long will your power stay on for? I know it depends what you have on but give us some estimates, please! Thanks!
You're correct in that I don't address the size of the battery bank needed to power a given load for a given amount of time. For most people a couple of 100ah batteries will suffice for short outages as long as they have a means to charge them from a vehicle or other source.
***** Would like to know what it would take to power a home for 24hrs. I ask because I'm plan to build a tiny house on a 30' trailer and want to see if I could feasibly power it for a few days on a few battery packs. Also, thinking of purchasing a 3500 Watt gas generator that would help in recharging the battery packs and add even longer off the grid time.
thefront
I can power my house comfortably for about 24 hours on the battery pack I have which is around 1000Ah. After that I can use my 12V DC generator to recharge the batteries, though an AC generator and a good 50A style charger would work as well. I use around 6kwh per day excluding heat and AC. When running on battery power I use other heat sources and do without AC.
Okay thanks! And that's more like it! That's what I think people are looking for when they watch these videos for the first time trying to figure out how practical they are. Wish people would focus more on the details of what to expect out of the batteries.
if you had two 200 amp panels and a split phase inverter would it be able to power both phases on both of the two panels ??? or will it only be able to power both phases in one single panel???
Each panel would need it's own split phase connection for them to both be fully powered but you could do so with just one split phase inverter, it would just require more connections and cabling.
what size would you suggest to power your whole home continuous, also what brand????is aims decent ?
can you do a video on hooking up a split phase inverter to panel??? also could you jus hardwire the inverter to a breaker instead of back feeding a wall outlet?
wellsmd1
If you get an Aims I would highly recommend you get a LF design because their HF products are complete garbage. Their LF designs are outsourced and are therefore much better quality - about the same as competing Chinese products which are using the same design.
do you know of any videos that have a inverter hooked up to dual service panels???
i know this is an older video, but how did you get to bypass the ground/neutral bond to get the inverter to work, just by using the gfci on the inverter, so we dont blow up inverters, my mobile home has a seperate grond and neutral bar, so i shouldnt have to worry about what inverter i use then as a battery backup, i was planning on a 1500/2000 watt, and just hook to panel after closing main breaker and shutting off all 240 breakers and then use a 240 bhreaker as a back feed or feed for both phases
If you use a 2 conductor extension cord to the inverter output (no ground) the ground/neutral bond issue is negated so long as you feed it into a non GFCI circuit. You do still have safety issues regarding the potential of electrified DC battery connections with this method but the inverter works without issue.
@@knurlgnar24 so do you mean the battery connections could possibly carry a small current, of ac voltage besides the dc voltage, thanks for your response, this just for emergency and would use an interlock on panel
@@knurlgnar24 so just cut off ground lug from cord
or make new cord with no ground