NO Dali Bridge Crash Protection Like Sunshine Skyway Bridge?
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- The collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, MD in 2024 left many unanswered questions you asked concerning the lack of protection guards around the bridge, known as concrete dolphins. Here Jeff Ostroff shows you his analysis comparing Baltimore Key Bridge with the Sunshine Skyway bridge in Tampa, FL, which implemented a lot of concrete dolphin protection bumpers to protect the bridge from collapsing.
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This analysis will simulate how the Dali ship would have fared against the Tampa Bay bridge to illustrate the shortcomings of the Francis Scott Key bridge and the lack of any serious protection for the Port of Baltimore, and what improvements could have saved the Key bridge from collapse.
00:00 Introduction to lack of protection for Baltimore Key bridge
01:16 How the Dali ship was angled to the bridge pillars and concrete dolphin
03:17 Simulating Dali ship approaching the bridge pillars
03:54 High Speed back and forth of Dali ship showing the angle of the turn
04:58 Proposed second concrete dolphin to protect the bridge
06:22 Problems with Francis Scott Key bridge concrete dolphins
06:52 Sunshine Skyway Bridge used rock islands around pylons
09:17 How strong are concrete dolphins for bridge protection?
10:50 Simulating Dali container ship at Sunshine Skyway bridge
13:54 What about other ports and the Golden Gate Bridge?
14:35 Evolution of cargo ship sizes since the 1970s - Навчання та стиль
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The barrier that surrounded the pillar was made of wood and the section that the ship hit actually washed up on the beach near me, I have pictures of the debris if anyone wants them.
Did you take into account of the depth of the water?
11:50 you've got a bulb keel under the water, which effectively reduces the overhang of the bow.
Doesn't the MV Dali have the standard bulbous bow? Especially since it was built in 2016. Apparently they even retrofit older ships with bulbous bows. Your beaching guess is not correct in that case.
Army Corps of Engineering is who needs to set standards nationwide. And things need to be improved as things grow in size. So Government is to blame for this.
35 people perished when the southbound (1971) span of the original Sunshine Skyway collapsed into Tampa Bay when it was struck by the _Summit Venture_ in May 1980, because there were no dolphins protecting the piers that got sheared off by the boat. It seems a major tragedy always needs to occur before action is taken. In the case of the Sunshine Skyway, when the replacement bridge was opened in 1987, dolphins were added to protect the new bridge. There should have been a campaign after the _Summit Venture_ disaster in 1980 to audit all bridges at risk of a similar collision.
Thank you for explaining this.
Side note for others that see this.
The original skyway Bridge was the same type as the key bridge was.
To this day. You can see parts of the old skyway as used as fishing piers. The beginning of both sides of the bridge are still in use.
Of the 35 fatalities. The most came from a bus load of people.
supposedly there was such a campaign - from another video on the Sunshine Skyway disaster ""In cooperation with the Coast Guard, the Federal Highway Administration was required to determine which bridges in the United States were not equipped with adequate structural pier protection"
@@2dogsf-ing There is a 'skywaydisaster' section of the 'skywaybridge' website that has a ton of photos of the original bridge, photos of the disaster and information of the Summit Venture ship and the victims who died in cars and a Greyhound bus that plunged from the end of the bridge deck into Tampa Bay 180 feet below.
... and indeed there WAS an investigation, but just like what will happen now, things will happen in the world that will take the attention of federal officials and the general public away from this catastrophe. The final nail in the coffin of doing anything concrete about is is that two years from now when Congress has to apply federal funding to bridge upgrades, congress won't do it for fear the general public won't like the expense and it risks their re-election. The death of a few dozen people looses it's impact after a few years.
We were busy invading and destroying other nations to care for domestic nonsense.
Fun fact, I work for a company that gets permits for oversize trucks, and we permitted the trucks that brought those cranes out of Michigan to be put on those barges, and start the recovery/clean up process. There is one big crane, that was local, we permitted the smaller ones, and their booms, the very next morning after the incident.
Maybe this will start an initiative to retrofit Dolphins around all major bridges and at-risk traffic areas.
I doubt it, nothing done after the Sunshine bridge..... Bridge collision mitigation is part of the design so why do the US have so many unprotected bridges. Other countries do.
People forget too, and the next generation of leaders will never have heard of this because they were too busy playing Fortnight
I remember billions of dollars for "infrastructure". Never went to infrastructure
@@MavHunter20XXLast I heard that money had never been spent. I guess it ended up in some pockets.
@@jaycarver4886 For decades, Annapolis and Baltimore focused more on education and healthcare than infrastructure. They can't even provide enough air conditioners to Baltimore schools during the summertime, and they must close those that cannot provide cool air. They spent years studying the Bay Bridge and delaying upgrades to other crossings like the Key Bridge.
A total of $110 billion of $1.2 trillion went to roads and bridges from the infrastructure bill in 2021. Maryland has a "fair" rating regarding all major bridges inside the state, and most would take $1 billion to upgrade & repair. The ratings of more than 110,000 bridges changed between the 2020 and 2023 data sets. About 43,000 were improved. Nearly 70,000 had deterioration.
The question is whether it’s wiser for politicians to invest more in addressing infrastructural shortfalls now than in cleaning up after a disaster. But we know the answer, the one offered so many times before: It is, at least, politically easier to do the cleanup.
Crazy how the power poles have better protection.
It's almost like someone knew that ships can hit things, and they knew how to build structures that can withstand direct hits from large ships.
Baltimore refused to upgrade their dolphins after the 1980 Sunshine Skyway bridge collapse, because they were considered "too expensive". The new Sunshine Skyway bridge received 36 dolphins to the cost of 36 million dollars. Baltimore saved less than 10 million dollars so they could have a closed port for months and spend probably around a billion dollars replacing their bridge, thus killing 7 construction workers. I'd say someone should be fired, but the people who originally made those decisions probably aren't around, and people who value money over safety can't be reasoned with.
The power poles were built later. The bridge would have had effective protection if it was built today. The bridge would not have fallen if the port had retrofitted the bridge with adequate protection and there were likely plans to do so “one of these days”
Those power poles were build much later when there was proper safety standard while bridge was build way before that.
@@LuxPerp “one of these days” In 1980 a ship did "chip" pillar of this bridge, they already knew in 1980 there was serious risk. Plans in 2024?
@@LuxPerp There was no reason why the Key Bridge did not have protective barriers installed after it went into service in 1977 other than Maryland deciding to spend the estimated $160 million on something else.
Can't believe that within the 47 years lifespan of that bridge, nobody have brought up this issue about the small number of dolphins.
Probably because there is clearly plenty of room to pass through. This is just a sign people are at there dumbest they have ever been in all our history.
Bringing up the issue is one thing. Allocating the money is another. From the politician point of view: how many votes will is get me?
@@joechang8696It's more effective after an incident than before.
Monty Python ship animation!
LOL, Good one!
Well the ship is named the Dali, Dali was a Spanish painter, and Monty Python did a episode about the Spanish Inquisition, so I guess it checks out.
"...and now the penguin on top of your TV set will explode..."
Incidentally, the Salvador Dali museum is in St. Petersburg, Florida on the inside of the Sunshine Skyway Bridge.
This is getting weird.
It's Awesome!
Re: the Golden Gate bridge. The North tower is half on shore, half in the water, and a ship would run aground before hitting that. The South tower has a fender system.
And the south tower survived being torpedoed by a Japanese submarine in WW2…
@@allangibson8494 Not exactly. That torpedo fired by the I-15 hit a sandbar and didn't detonate.
Yep. The north tower being part of Marin Headlands is fine. The south tower at least has something. Sadly the Oakland Bay Bridge and its 4 towers for cargo to/from Oakland is completely unprotected.
@@ohheyitskevinc All of the Bay Area bridges have fender systems protecting their piers. There have been 2 allisions involving the Western span of the Bay Bridge in the past 17 years, that where the ships involved (Cosco Busan and Overseas Reymar) hit the fenders of the Delta and Echo towers rather than the towers themselves.
Good to know.
The DIY graphics are honestly the best. You explain things in a way that make me feel like an engineer when I'm taking your words and talking to my family and friends about this unfortunate disaster. Thank you!
I'm glad you find the DIY graphics helpful!
@@jeffostroff Jeff are you able to do a calculation or simulation what would have happened if they were going let's say 3 mph instead of 9 the whole time? And/or if there was a safe/ideal speed to travel at until they got past the bridge.
I read the trip was 27 days at sea, so as a layman it seems reasonable if they had to spend a few extra hours going 1/3 speed in the harbor in order to allow adequate time to stop/steer/recover, then so be it. Traveling at 9 mph here just seems reckless to me...?
Well done.
For those who think the man made islands would be insufficient protection, look how abruptly the cargo ship stopped in the Suez Canal when it plowed into the side of the canal, and that was loose sand and dirt.
The "fairlead" dolphins pointed out in the video are more of a visual reference to line the ship up with the channel before passing under the bridge rather than meant as a protection barrier or fender system.
The further outward pilings of the Key bridge are actually protected by shallow water. From the most recent NOAA charts, the edge of the channel marked by the fairlead dolphins goes from minimum 50 feet, immediately up to 24 feet, and within 200 feet outward the deepest water under the bridge is 19 feet, with the most common depth being 10 to 12 feet. The only boats passing under the bridge outside of the ship channel would be much smaller vessels like tug boats, fishing boats and private yachts that don't have enough mass to critically damage the pilings of the bridge in a collision.
It's important to know that the "full load water line" of a cargo ship this size is somewhere around 40 feet deep. Except for the bridge piling, the Dali would have grounded on the edge of the channel in another 10 to 15 yards.
The reason the Sunshine Skyway bridge in Tampa Bay has dolphins protecting the outward pilings is because the navigable depth water along the span of the bridge is 2 miles wide. The dredged ship channel is 300 yards wide but that only restricts the largest ships going under the bridge to the ship channel.
Skyway is built like that cause the old bridge had a similar accident as the Dali.
Hello jeff Happy Easter 🐣 Thank you for the update info 💯👍
Same to you!
One thing to be aware of, this ship had a single screw. If you ever operated a boat with a single screw when you go to revers the back will swing as the prop "walks"
Also doesn't it take minutes to reverse direction in the propeller?
A ship this size does the prop reverse pitch or direction?
@@crash2161 Single shaft drive, fixed pitch propeller. Not sure if it had bow thrusters or the like.
Propulsion is a single shaft with a fixed pitch propeller. In this ship the engine turns around 82 RPM, matching the optimal rotational speed of the propeller. There is also no reversing gear so, to generate reverse thrust, the engine is stopped and restarted turning the opposite direction. It does indeed take quite a few minutes to achieve this
@mrmullett1067
Single 3,000 kW (4,000 hp) bow thruster
Love your videos Jeff! Found you through my interest in the Miami tower collapse, and have binged all engineering videos since
Glad you like them!
Me too. Jeff reappeared in my feed right after this bridge collapse. Jeff explains things well for a layman.
Meaning for a layman like me😂
Thanks Jeff very interesting am retired now have lot more time to keep up with things I like to be interested in
In Norway, we use tow boats in front and behind large tankers that follow the tanker out into the open sea and in from the open sea.
So, why is this done? Can the tugs nudge the ship in different directions?
@@anthonyvalenti9093 I have to look a little more closely at procedures and routines and will come back when I have a little more specific information on this matter.
The escort provisions only apply to one port. These basically mean that all ships of over 20,000 gross tonnes must have an escort to and from shore with a tugboat behind the ship.
I was stationed at Curtis Bay in the Coast Guard by the Key Bridge right after the 1980 Japanese cargo ship collision , in 1981 and 82. Went under the Key Bridge over and over while a Coastie. They never really did much to improve safety other than the little gesture you point out, and that is more to guide boats than protect the bridge. They aim for the center of that span when well away from the bridge until the cross under it. The Japanese cargo ship did damage to the Key Bridge but did not knock it down. Same scenario, loss of power, hit a support structure.
When I moved from Maryland years later I moved to the Tampa Bay area in 2000 and soon became familiar with the Sunshine Skyway Bridge, and saw how much better it looked safety wise, and how it was hit in 1980 as well by a large tanker ship...but in that case a section collapsed and several people died including a bus. I applaud you for pointing out these safety measures. There are articles which I can forward to you in the Tampa Bay papers where they contacted cities such as Baltimore and tried to help them (the engineers did) with retrofitting some safety ideas which were more current. It is a shame nothing seems to have been done.
Excellent, would like to see that info.
As a resident of Tampa Bay I have been saying all along the lack of dolphins was downright negligent and is the real cause of this tragedy.
Edit: I have fished and scuba dived under the Skyway (not in the channel) and around those dolphins. They are huge and there is large rocks, boulders and old concrete pilings etc stacked up under the water around the dolphins and bridge supports. So a ship with more than 18' of draft will run around as well.
I agree. That’s probably why government officials & DOT are saying how much it’s going to cost them… I mean the US taxpayer.
Hi Jeff, thanks for building your "Hi Tech" ship modeling, which is what we called "dolls" in the pre-CAD days of PC board layout. Simple but, gets the job done.
It looks like the Dali came in at the perfect angle to maximize pier damage, while totally missing the dolphin. The bulbous bow likely slid along the piling and positioned the ship perfectly to cause the gunwale to sever the pier. I suspect the bridge started falling before the pier was completely severed due to the pier support force going off-center. The pier actually looks to be a simple pivot joint, with no actual attachment to the bridge.
This bridge looks particularly fragile with it's 1,200 foot span between the piers and arched truss design. I can't help but wonder how the bridge was supported while under construction to keep it from collapsing. If it was allowed to twist, I suspect the whole structure would fold up instantaneously.
8 to 9 knots sounds screaming fast while still being within the harbor. Given how vunerable the bridge design was to the super large container ships we have these days, you would think there would be a speed limit associated with the bridge; like 2 mph. I know there is no rudder control at that speed but, bow thrusters are quite effective.
Legit yeah I think the Key bridge might have been cheaply made. it collapsed like toothpicks. We've come a long, long way since the 70s and 80s, we might need to revamp our infrastructure.
@@JChaos1120 Agreed, if politicians get involved (like company high level management), they will cut the budget and shorten the completion date while the design is still on the drawing board, thus compromising the design. I am actually surprised this type of collision hasn't happened sooner. I suspect the replacement bridge will be patterned after Florida's Sunshine Skyway Bridge in Tampa, although I'm not sure how it will be paid for.
There is a common belief that a ship can be steered even when there is no power. However, this is not true. The prop wash is essential and the rudder redirects the water flow to steer the ship. Without power, it is difficult (impossible) to stop or turn a ship, just like trying to maneuver a vehicle on ice. Also, the black smoke tells us which way the wind was blowing causing the ship to swing.
Why difficult? why not impossible?
@@tedmossCorrect. Wrong choice of words.
@@tedmoss Rudder of any kind ship needs strong flow of water past it to have good effect and be able to turn the ship.
Just like control surfaces of aiplanes lose effectiveness when air speed decreases and especially when airflow starts stalling. (except for some planes...)
That's why docking/slow speed maneuvering is such hard thing for ships without even any wind... Except for azipod equipped ships: ua-cam.com/video/zk90ndFtX-g/v-deo.html
And especially complete power loss means rudder is stuck and can't be moved to try to maintain some control.
"However, this is not true. The prop wash is essential and the rudder redirects the water flow to steer the ship." Large ships? Some sailboats do have rudders, I am sure about it ;)
You're so right, the placement of the concrete Dolphins are too small and too far away. I don't understand why the engineers didn't anticipate an accident like the one that just happened.
Love your work Jeffo ❤. Thank you again for your in depth analytical reporting on this terrible tragedy . Sending prayers to the families 🙏🏻
Im surprised no comparison was made to the 2021 suez canal obstruction
Hey Jeff love the videos, one suggestion though you should make your engineering disaster playlist chronological. Oldest first. Right now it is impossible to figure out where a given series starts or ends since the order is random and the video titles arent numbered.
The Bay Bridge a few miles south of the Key bridge is also totally free of any proection.
Great video. I first came in contact with your page during the Oceangate Sub incident but you hit it out the park with the amount of research you do and how you relay your commentary make it understandable for the average person. By the way, I live in DC and this bridge is about 35ish minutes from me.
simple regulation for tug support til out in open water would have made it unlikely too.
it wouldn't have happened at vancouver's port because of such a requirement.
Remember, Vancouver had some very bad accidents.
Cost cutting, protocols but the bridge are well build from yesteryear but nowadays ship are getting bigger and bigger
Moran Towing and Harbor Services would love such legislation since it pretty much has a monopoly in every port from Maine to Texas. This company lobbies every year for both state and federal legislation requiring it. They currently do escort and assist ships in and out of the harbor but only at the ship operator's request and at a very high cost.
Its happen before there's tugs support when channelling in or out till open water up to the nxt port of call but nowadays there's a protocol in some country like stateside you have to change over from heavy fuel to pure diesel while channelling and while at port, a ship is a power plant it has its own axilliary engine that gives electrical to run the machineries on deck and machineries on engine room that drives the main engine and all of that engine are design for heavy fuel exclude one emergency genset so its unpredictable when or when that something gonna happen
A container ship compare to other are well maintained old or new big or small and in port or at sea, what a hell for the engineers that things happen...RIP to those who perished on that incident
Question => Considering the need for a replacement bridge, what would be the best & most economical way to rebuild? Is it your opinion that simply replacing the former structure with possibly improved pylons and dolphins would be recommended for expediency? Once the debris is removed and channel re-opened, will bridge engineers or politicians determine the bridge structure replacement?
Great points about vulnerability in our infrastructure!
I've noticed TV news channels around the country - coastal and inland - talking about bridge pier protection
The very first time I saw the collapse video early Tuesday morning, before it even splashed into the water I was already wondering where was the protection.
@@jeffostroffSame here!
Outstanding, Jeff- as always!
Thanks for the update, mate. Watching with keen interest from Australia.
Thank you for these updates. Very informative.
This is so informative! Great job, fantastic reporting!🌻🌼🐝 Keep it up 🙌
Re. the "islands" around the Florida bridge pillars -- These offer far more effective protection than you might imagine at first. Keep in mind that they slope outward from the visible portion, and that large ships are also deep draft ships. Dali, for example, has a draft of 49' 4'' when fully loaded. If the underwater slope of the "islands" is 45 degrees (it's probably even shallower), the effective size of the islands is equal to the visible size, plus a margin on all sides roughly equal to the draft of the ship.
Was totally waiting for you jeff!
Well, doing some quick math, at 8 knots and weighing 100,000 tons, Dali would have ~560 million foot pounds of energy. If the dolphins of the Skyway bridge could only absorb 380 million foot pounds of energy, thats still 1.5 times more energy than the dolphins are stated to absorb. There would still be inefficiencies and losses in a collision to things like crumpling metal and sound energy, and it would definitely soften the blow. I would love to see test footage of the dolphins in action but the Jury is still out on whether or not the dolphins alone would be enough.
Very informative. Thanks.
The Francis Scott key bridge was built to specifications that were around in the 1970s. In the early '80s, there was an accident that brought a bridge down and they amended the code. This bridge predates that code. The replacement bridge will meet that code. It's not like this kind of thing is unusual. Code changing after you build an important structure.
The four dolphins there were built after the Tampa Skyway accident, and original plans had called for 4 others to be placed more or less where he estimated. However, the city of Baltimore rejected those plans because the city felt the cost was too great for a "very unlikely event" like this. These dolphins had nothing to do with the original layout, but we will see how it all turns out. As you said, the new bridge will be assured of increased protections, as well as other critical bridges being upgraded based on what we learn here.
@@leechowning2712 Of course it will cost a billion dollars.
Of course, they know it is a crap bridge, but do allow big ships without being towed under that bridge, absurd. In my country it is a crime, in USA it is not, USA will just give blankets to the families, or did that code already change?
@leechowning2712 the city doesn't own the bridge nor have a say in it. It's a state owned bridge.
Another great video. Thanks!
Thanks Jeff
Another informative & interesting video.
The base of the GG’s north tower is right at the shore. A ship would like beach before coming close. But exiting from the bay, there is a wall jutting out from the shore shielding the pier as well.
The southern tower has a wall around its pier. Difficult to see from the perspective of the photo you showed, but you can see it from satellite images and from Apple Maps 3D view. Looks like it is designed to deflect ships from the likeliest angles of approach.
I have seen a few videos on this bridge but I really look forward to seeing your videos you explain things so well thanks
Really do love your content and analysis after these events. Only found you after the condo collapse.
Exactly the vid I needed today happy Easter everyone!!! Stay blessed and try to see the positives even in every negative.
Great video. Thx Jeff.
Thanks Jeff! You’re our go-to expert. I especially like how you explore all possible scenarios and future risks. Saving lives is what it’s all about. ❤
I enjoyed your high tech visual demonstrations, and clear explanations.
Thanks. This was very helpful.
Great video Jeff! Happy Easter!
I would be very interested in a series on the protection ability of concrete dolphins at various U.S. ports. As was said container ships are getting bigger and our infrastructure (like bridges) is becoming older. I am currently living in an eastern U.S. state near a seaport so I am more than hypothetically interested in the safety measures currently in place.
For the most part they haven't kept up.
Sydney Harbour Australia has a similiar layout to Baltimore Port. Narrow exit called the "the Heads"..SH Bridge, opera House etc nearby. Approx 2 weeks ago the Queen Elizabeth (95,000T approx same length Dali) left Sydney. 3 big tugs escorted it through the heads and into open sea. Sydney Harbour Pilot/Tugs take no chances.
Done it again Jeff! Another brilliant video my friend ❤️👌😍
Thanks again!
Jeff,
Take a look at the Coronado Bridge (Coronado, CA to San Diego, CA), the Benicia-Martinez (Benicia, CA to Martinez, CA), and the Alfred Zampa Memorial Bridge (Crockett, CA to Carquinez Heights, CA). Each of these bridges has different arrangements than the Key Bridge, but all offer better protection.
I can't recall which bridge the ARCO Juneau had an allision with it was either the Alfred Zampa or the Benicia-Martinez, but the fendering protected the bridge. The ARCO Juneau was a 120,000 DWT tanker of a similar size to MV Dali. The Juneau had two holes in the shell, one 10' high x 100' long, and the other 10' high x 200' long.
After watching the films over and over I believe that the flare of the bow overhung the fendering and it hit one of the bridge's stanchions, initiating a chain reaction of failures. I heard someone in one of the news reports say when the bridge fell on the Dali the sudden load change grounded the vessel. That is why the ship is trimmed by the bow.
Bob
The Arco Juneau had an allision with the Zampa bridge (locally known as the the Carquinez Bridge).
Awesome videos!
Thank you for bringing this up. I was old enough to remember the Tampa bridge.
A few months after the Tampa collapse, the Key Bridge was hit and suffered minor damage. Zero excuse for these bridges to not have protection, but the Key Bridge supports were completely unprotected.
What a superior analysis. Great CGI work! Thanks for this awesome effort.
If a ship of that tonnage hit one of those cute dolphins, who do you think would win?
as usual great investigation
It’s crazy that even regular construction guys spotted the ineffective and inadequate dolphin system. Just by eye I believe this could have been corrected for less than $100 million over 6 months with sheet pile crew and concrete.
Now we get to pay a minimum of $6 billion to replace a whole bridge.
The tip of the bow wouldn't do much damage if beach surrounds pylon!
Keep in mind that those protections at the Sunshine Skyway were put in place after a collision occurred.
There is a bulbous bow on most large container ships that rides under the water line that would impact the protection structures much further ahead of your calculations. They stick out nearly as far as the highest bow points.
Bull nose water disperser
The bow was not wide enough under water, but was much wider above water.
@@bfa-xi1py Agreed, that is why it side swiped the supports.
Thanks Jeff
I suppose easy to be wise in hindsight, but these types of accidents have happened in the past and lessons applied to both bridge operations and design as well as marine operations.
Many bridges have restraining straps (typically chains/cables) to help prevent catastrophic collapse in the event of a support being disrupted. Many heavily trafficked bridges also have substantial caissons up and downstream of the bridge pylon designed to deflect the largest out of control ships away from the bridge's pylons.
What if the ship is simply so large that you can't stop it? Try 112,382 tons. (A medium size ship).
Thank you for all your work on this. I learned that Dolphins are bridge protectors and I wonder how many bridges don't have any at all?
99% of the time when people mention "fracture critical" they have no idea what they are talking about. If you disagree respond with the three requirements for a structure to be considered fracture critical. A 95000 ton ship is going to do a number on your bridge, same result if its a steel or concrete multi-girder, a suspension bridge, or cable stayed. You cant stand up when someone sweeps out your legs and a bridge cant stand without piers. What a shame. I liked the truss/tied arch combo. Reminds me of the Norris bridge in VA
You seem to be saying bumpers would do no good, I think that is correct. It is 112,382 tons, not fully loaded.
do you ever see what small street bollards do to 30 ton container truck?
My concern is that we let ships that large, without redundancy near bridges period.
You should check out the set up for the current Tacoma Narrows Bridge in Tacoma Washington. I don’t think it has ample protection for a crash like this. Of course, this was the famous suspension bridge with the name Galloping Gertie that swayed back-and-forth in a windstorm until it collapsed. The Puget Sound is deep enough that much of the bridge that fell into the water is still down there. It is now home to some of the largest octopus in the world.
We studied that bridge my very 1st day in engineering. Drawing, first class in college.
Good information.
Well, a glancing blow was enough to sink the Titanic and it was enough here to bring down the Bridge.
And like the Titanic, it met the regulations when constructed. Just that regulations do not keep up with the times.
Titanic's lifeboats, met and exceeded the requirements when it was built, but the ships had got bigger with more passengers than the regulations were designed for.
I feel the bridge protection is the same. OK for 50 000 ton ships, but Dali is 100 000 ton and there are bigger ships coming.
@@Kevin-go2dw Titanic was on par for its time, the Baltimore Bridge Was NOT.
Thanks Jeff cheers from Florida, Paul
The ship turned at least 30deg to the right towards the pillar. You can plainly the full starboard side of the ship disappear as it turns bow toward the pylon.
hi Jeff. you rock
Thank you so much for your kind words!
Wide angle lenses can distort the apparent angle of turns as well.
Jeff,
Thank you for this. Ive been asking about those dolphins almost since the night of the collision/collapse. Its intersting that they dont even show up in google maps satellite view. They do look fairly small - especially in relation to the size of that container ship. When you see the ship 'turn' you need to remember that they did drop an anchor and this may have caused that motion. And it also may have made things worse.
Thank you for posting what many of us bridge /maritime/ ship nerds were thinking when the news broke.
I'm an Engineer, specialising in theoretical (design) mechanics and it pains me to see such an obvious feature missing, especially after the Sunshine Skyway incident.
If you find a shot of the stbd bow you will see a great slab of steel torn off the flare where the impact occurred.
The water either side of the dredged channel is 33-34 feet.
The channel is dredged to 50 feet.
The ship draws about 40 feet.
Once the ship got near the edge of the dredged channel, bank effect could have become a major issue.
Excellent work Chief but might I suggest that as they do not allow 2 ships at once, the channel required is only the middle of the bridge so protection devices could be strategically placed everywhere!
Jeff You are the best in describing these structural disasters that we've had in the last few years as well as ways to mitigate them. Thanks.
Thank you for your kind words, I'm glad you find the content helpful!
Further supporting your point about the "beach"- consider the shape of the container ship underwater. It probably has a bulbous piece under water that projects out farther in front of the ship, maybe farther out than the amount that the visible part of the bow projects out. I found some images online that appear to show this. On a direct impact that bulbous part would hit the underwater structure first and keep the ship even farther away.
The Sunshine Skyway bridge, too, came under scrutiny some years back when it was noted that politicking for Florida resource use substituted Florida limestone for Vermont granite in the concrete superstructure when the destroyed bridge was rebuilt. The salt water conditions at the mouth of Tampa Bay in the Gulf of Mexico require significantly more maintenance to avoid corrosion (with limestone than granite).
Hey Jeff!!🙂🙂you are a good teacher
Thank you so much for your kind words!
There is another possibility to explore. The engine was intentionally shut off by the chief engineer when switching from normal diesel fuel (cost more, only used in port) to much cheaper heavy bunker fuel (not allow used in port) when it on its way.
Makes sense. Bad economy. Ukrainian Captain too. High potential for greed
@@SlickBlackCadillac All Indian crew, where did you get your information?
What about the fact it was not out of the port? What about the rumor that it had power problems for 2 days before it left the dock?
HFO is not allowed in this are either, and the authorities look for things in the exhaust so ships who do their changeover too soon are regularly caught..
With that said, fueloil changeover does not require an engine shutdown, but will require the engine to run at some speed in order to clear the fuel system (mostly important when changing from hfo, to mdo as you aproach the line where you are no longer allowed to run on hfo, as the changeover process takes time to clear the fuel system and crossing the line too early can/will cause legal issues and fines)
Glad to see a video actually address those puny little dolphins I saw from the early footage. 👍🏽
I retired at the end of 2022 after 50 yrs working at most Port of Baltimore facilities. In the mid 70's when the bridge was built ships were nowhere near the size of these container ships today. I don't remember any Pure container ships then. There were large Combo ships from ACL and Barber lines (now NOSAC) that were RoRo below with stern ramps and containers stacked outside on the main deck. They still weren't the size of these Behemoths today. Who would have dreamed of them back in the 70's? I sure didn't!
Can we all agree this guy has the perfect voice for talk radio👍🏿
That Fla. Bridge is a cable stayed bridge and more than likely would not have collapsed with one main pylon taken out.
Excellent analysis. Remember that very late in the series of events they dropped the port side anchor. Could that cause the stern to swing to the port side as that side anchor drags along.
No my guess is the anchor was dropped to make it pivot tot he left, but likely it was ineffective s the anchor will not slow down a moving ship, and maybe it needed more time to make it pivot.
@@jeffostroff I'm thinking they tossed the port anchor to swing the bow to port, but since the chains are so long, there wasn't enough time to actually take up the slack and start digging into the sediment before the impact.
Thanks Jeff for the New photos, I was watching your first video a couple days ago. And mentioned how this ship was still afloat with all that extra weight. Some loser commented, that the bow was stuck on the dolphin surrounding the structure. The ship sideswiped the dolphin, and hit the bridge pillars.
The bow in probably stuck in the mud, I see the stearn has risen up with the extra weight on the front of the ship.
In all my time I've learned one thing; disasters are a perfect storm of a chain of separate circumstances. Each link in that chain isn't enough to cause a disaster. Several or more links are required.
This is no different. Single prop ship, inadequate bridge protection, questionable crew (qualifications and experience), mechanical failures, etc. Probably a few more we don't know about.
Perfect storm.
I don’t see how a telephoto lens can make the ship look like it’s making a sharp turn to the right. I’d need to see examples.
What it does look like is that the ship actually made a hard right in order to hit the main support. As you said yourself with that protective bumper sitting so far out they needed one more closer and further out. Well that’s exactly how the ship came in.
SIMPLY THE BEST>>>>HAPPY EASTER JEFF!!!
I know it was fracture critical due to no redundancy, my question is why was there no redundancy?
Somebody said the ship dropped an anchor to try to stop and that is what made the ship turn. I don't know.
Jeff is now saying it didn’t turn, it’s just a camera lens effect…..
Anyone notice the protection around the power line supports??
Beefy isn't it!
Thanks!
To be fair, this bridge was designed in an era where ships were less than half this size.
I'd prefer those buffer islands for the Golden Gate. Noticed too that it is undefended, and needs to be defended ASAP!
Where was the engineering community before this accident? If engineers were aware of these deficiencies, why was not more done to raise public awareness? The American Society of Civil Engineers, in its 2021 Infrastructure Report Card section on bridges, doesn't mention the issue of inadequate bridge pier protection.
Old retired ship pilot said the boat could have continued straight but instead put the ship in reverse, the reverse propeller rotation caused the front of the boat to swing starboard into the bridge.
Thank you for the update !!! I appreciated how you showed the ship going under the bridge !!! Your visuals are wonderful !!!! Even a moron like me can understand your explanations !!!
The Golden Gate bridge was already hit in 2007, and it survived just fine. It was a glancing blow that ripped open the ship and spilled oil all over the bay area, but the bridge was perfectly fine. The protections are probably adequate for the Golden Gate bridge.