Thanks so much for watching everyone! If you want to buy a Flair 58+ I would really appreciate it if you use my affiliate link which helps me pay my new editor: shrsl.com/4enij
I got Flair 58 (full electric) new design, got mirror for it (on magnet, as is in 58+, because new 58 got this magnetic spot; I bought inspection mirror which is 3x cheaper and looks almost exactly as the original Flair mirror, cuz both are made in P.R.C.). I'm also using bigger mirror (10 cm diameter) which I put on the right side of the Flair. The only difference between new 58 and 58+ I can see is in coloration. I'm using Umikot WDT tool (3D printed), 1ZPresso J-Ultra and two sided leveler-tamper tool from MHW-3Bomber. I got so consistent shots without any spurts - no spots on mirrors. I can confirm that Flair 58 needs finer grinding. I also got Eureka Classico and it can't grind properly even when it operates almost at zero point. Flairs 58/58+ are magnificent levers. You only need to like the preparation phase not to be bored by it (I love it) and you'll get superb espressos. One tip to see coffee flowing from NPF like you see on reels: use very fresh beans and you'll see beauty of the process :-) Cheers!
Thanks Charlie! I’d like to hear a little more about how long you pulled a traditional shot and see how you ramped down the pressure over time, but this def is on my list to buy. Thanks again for your content!
It's a manual so it's just about finding how much pressure and watching the meter. As the puck starts to come apart you can maintain force to have a slowly ramping down pressure, or push harder to try and keep it at 9 bar. Interesting machine!
try the Timemore Black Mirror Nano or Mini scales (Nano has the on/off switch at the side so it's not ideal cause there's not a lot of space left for your finger to touch the scale) the MHW-3BOMBER Cube Coffee Scale-Mini works as well! :)
Charlie, so great to see the flair58 content. usually when they have a product release there are many vids, but afterwards, this beautiful beast is quite under rated. what i found extremely great with my flair58, is: high extraction basket (i am using a local retailer's own basket: AVX PRO 2118 58mm 18g. it never splashes even with turbo shots)
Twice boiled water tastes different.. what? Well, I did some research and yeah, it's a scientific thing. Always learning random new tidbits. Thanks much! :D
@@philippecasteleyn9327 boiled water dissolves oxygen and releases it in + other gases as steam. Also, minerals can be concentrated if enough is boiled. Both or either of these can result in a flat taste.
Great review!! I did notice the same about the need to grind finer for the Flair 58+ and the high-flow stock basket. I have an iTop 40+ grinder (64mm flat burrs) and had to switch the burrs from multifunctional (similar to SSP multipurpose) to espresso burrs (similar to SSP high uniformity) to get the grind fine enough to pull a 3:1 shot in 30-40 seconds for light roasted coffee and 2.5:1 shot for medium roast. I'm also using an IMS 15g basket (filling it with 16g of light roast or 15g of medium roast) so that I don't run out of water at the end of the extraction. Regarding the scale, I found the MiiCoffee Nano scale fits in perfectly inside the drip tray. It has a 0.1g precision, timer, and lithium-ion battery. I think I paid $32 for it. Which is a steal for what it is.
What you are saying is far from my experience. Sometimes we do things that matter without knowing it, and I wonder what we are doing different to each other, because you are clearly experienced. I am working on puck prep, but there is a lot of BS out there. Anyways, with a high flow basket it changes what you should be attempting with extraction ratio because the late solubles are reduced. Think pressure gradient across the basket.
I went with the pro 2 because of the cost. To make the water chamber is hot I bought a little pan that fits in the palm of my hand. The metal top goes in upside down and just fits. I put water inside and around the outside. Put it on the cooktop and boil it. I do that first by the time the puck is ready and the water is boiling all is ready. I can’t set it on top of my kettle the pot was $11 off Amazon
I'm not sure that it can because when you stop pulling your shot there's a little venting sound. I'll ask Flair if there's a way to get around this and get back to you 😉
It decreases towards the end as the puck erodes, which emulates a traditional spring lever. Tapering off the pressure is actually good as it reduces bitterness 😉
I have the exact setup (Flair 58 and DF64V) purchased the searchpean tiny 2s scale that is much cheaper. Some minor quirks - but perfectly fine. Just not able to use the tray as anything touching the side of the scale can tamper the measurements.
i also have the exact grinder (at least for now, i am planning to get a monolit flat max2 :) ), but for the scale i use a acaia lunar. that also has to be centered well, as any touching from the tray sides will be problematic.
Not the same league really, but still Flair is great considering the price difference. But I just love the steam on the Leva. I like milky drinks cos I'm a peasant 😎
@@homecafecharlie Yes I know it is not the same league, and the Leva has more features. I'm waiting for comparing the results of pure espresso in a cup. :)
Great Review! Surprising to hear about your experiences regarding the optimal grind settings. I'm using the fellow opus with my flair 58 and need to grind way coarser than expected. Usually somewhere at 2.5 and everything below that clogs up so bad, that i get 3 drops of oily goo before i give up.
Interesting! I know the grinder is different for different people, and it could be the basket as well. I used the stock basket for my review. Often with coffee products the variance is big enough even between the same grinders that settings will be different from grinder to grinder, and if you like light roasts as I do that will change things as well
Considering that practically all high end machines still use boilers and only manual machines is it even feasible to NOT use twice boiled water, I think it's safe to say that the difference is negligible. If it made that big of a difference we would see more machines boiling on demand like that $20k Manument James Hoffmann reviewed.
there's no sense in "automatic off timer" - imagine it switching off while you're pulling a shot or while you puck prep. i turn it on at morning and off at evening
I don't know what the energy draw is but I usually only have 2-3 coffees per day, and often just the 1 in the morning. Multiple times I've forgotten to switch it off, probably drains a decent amount of energy
Great video but i must beg to differ with the final note: the flair is not the best purist espresso maker for the price. It is definitely one of the best, but the Leverpresso Pro is about 60% of the price of the Flair 58x, and capable of pulling similar shots. The flair has a leg up with the heated water reservoir and wider range of accessories, as the LP uses a 51mm basket. However, pre-heating is a minor inconvenience to save $300 and I personally prefer shots pulled from thicker pucks. I'm pretty sure I'll pick one of these up in the long run, but I'm pretty happy with my LP. It's gonna be hard to beat.
wow going on about twice boiled water. The review is actually more accurate than most on this machine, but selling different baskets and tampers is against the philosophy of this no nonsense machine. The machine not turning off can be fixed with home automation power plugs. What cannot be fixed is that you cannot automatically turn it on for a morning preheat. Also the middle heat setting is effectively the same as the top setting, and the low setting lets the water keep cooling too much. So in all, this is the best machine out there for a perfect manual extraction unless you want get into to temperature surfing, which is a real thing for seeking an excellent extraction, as in a Decent.
Are there any companies that actually support their products? Breville does not offer repair parts. When my machine kicks the bucket I'm considering one of these manual presses but I would prefer to get a machine that the company actually stands behind and sells parts beyond warranty.
Breville/Sage is actually one of the few that makes it very hard to repair it yourself. I can't imagine how a Flair could go wrong other than needing a gasket change. It's really simple, and you can buy parts on their site or from resellers.
I found out the hard way that the Breville has a teflon coated plastic for the grouphead/inner shower. Mine was flaking! Thus why I'm here looking into the flair products. Machines are too expensive, too much upkeep and inevitably break/need repair.
Thanks so much for watching everyone! If you want to buy a Flair 58+ I would really appreciate it if you use my affiliate link which helps me pay my new editor: shrsl.com/4enij
0
I've had the Flair 58 for a few months now and it makes great espresso! There's a bit of a learning curve, but it's part of the fun.
Yeah I was surprised how much I came to like it!
I got Flair 58 (full electric) new design, got mirror for it (on magnet, as is in 58+, because new 58 got this magnetic spot; I bought inspection mirror which is 3x cheaper and looks almost exactly as the original Flair mirror, cuz both are made in P.R.C.). I'm also using bigger mirror (10 cm diameter) which I put on the right side of the Flair. The only difference between new 58 and 58+ I can see is in coloration. I'm using Umikot WDT tool (3D printed), 1ZPresso J-Ultra and two sided leveler-tamper tool from MHW-3Bomber. I got so consistent shots without any spurts - no spots on mirrors. I can confirm that Flair 58 needs finer grinding. I also got Eureka Classico and it can't grind properly even when it operates almost at zero point. Flairs 58/58+ are magnificent levers. You only need to like the preparation phase not to be bored by it (I love it) and you'll get superb espressos. One tip to see coffee flowing from NPF like you see on reels: use very fresh beans and you'll see beauty of the process :-) Cheers!
wat
Do you remember how much you spent buying all these pieces individually? Would be interesting to compare with the final price of the 58+.
Thanks Charlie! I’d like to hear a little more about how long you pulled a traditional shot and see how you ramped down the pressure over time, but this def is on my list to buy. Thanks again for your content!
It's a manual so it's just about finding how much pressure and watching the meter. As the puck starts to come apart you can maintain force to have a slowly ramping down pressure, or push harder to try and keep it at 9 bar. Interesting machine!
try the Timemore Black Mirror Nano or Mini scales (Nano has the on/off switch at the side so it's not ideal cause there's not a lot of space left for your finger to touch the scale) the MHW-3BOMBER Cube Coffee Scale-Mini works as well! :)
Charlie, so great to see the flair58 content.
usually when they have a product release there are many vids, but afterwards, this beautiful beast is quite under rated.
what i found extremely great with my flair58, is: high extraction basket (i am using a local retailer's own basket: AVX PRO 2118 58mm 18g. it never splashes even with turbo shots)
Thanks so much for the kind comment! I'm doing a video soon on HE baskets soon, I bought a bunch
Twice boiled water tastes different.. what? Well, I did some research and yeah, it's a scientific thing. Always learning random new tidbits. Thanks much! :D
No. It doesn’t
What do I have to google for ? From that moment, I don't trust him anymore.
@@philippecasteleyn9327 boiled water dissolves oxygen and releases it in + other gases as steam. Also, minerals can be concentrated if enough is boiled. Both or either of these can result in a flat taste.
Thanks Charlie, good review. I have a 58+ and I love it. I use a felicita arc scale (turned sideways!).
Nice scale!
great review! I use mine with a pesado HE basket which I use for light roasted beans.
I just got one of these baskets and experimenting with a bunch more for a video coming soon!
Great review!! I did notice the same about the need to grind finer for the Flair 58+ and the high-flow stock basket. I have an iTop 40+ grinder (64mm flat burrs) and had to switch the burrs from multifunctional (similar to SSP multipurpose) to espresso burrs (similar to SSP high uniformity) to get the grind fine enough to pull a 3:1 shot in 30-40 seconds for light roasted coffee and 2.5:1 shot for medium roast. I'm also using an IMS 15g basket (filling it with 16g of light roast or 15g of medium roast) so that I don't run out of water at the end of the extraction. Regarding the scale, I found the MiiCoffee Nano scale fits in perfectly inside the drip tray. It has a 0.1g precision, timer, and lithium-ion battery. I think I paid $32 for it. Which is a steal for what it is.
Thank you! I still love the machine, I actually love manuals and levers, there's something magic about them!
What you are saying is far from my experience. Sometimes we do things that matter without knowing it, and I wonder what we are doing different to each other, because you are clearly experienced. I am working on puck prep, but there is a lot of BS out there. Anyways, with a high flow basket it changes what you should be attempting with extraction ratio because the late solubles are reduced. Think pressure gradient across the basket.
I went with the pro 2 because of the cost. To make the water chamber is hot I bought a little pan that fits in the palm of my hand. The metal top goes in upside down and just fits. I put water inside and around the outside. Put it on the cooktop and boil it. I do that first by the time the puck is ready and the water is boiling all is ready. I can’t set it on top of my kettle the pot was $11 off Amazon
Would love to know how much work it is to clean, how many parts, can you even clean it right away after a shot due to it being so hot to touch?
I haven't cleaned mine any specific way. With a puck screen very little getting on the group other than hot water. Very very little maintenance!
What kettle are you using?
Cocinaire, link is in the description 😍
Can the flair 58 mimic the "slayer shot" when brewing with light roasted beans?
I'm not sure that it can because when you stop pulling your shot there's a little venting sound. I'll ask Flair if there's a way to get around this and get back to you 😉
Are you able to maintain 9 bars throughout the entire shot or will the pressure start to decrease gradually?
It decreases towards the end as the puck erodes, which emulates a traditional spring lever. Tapering off the pressure is actually good as it reduces bitterness 😉
Have the exact setup. I have the searchpean tiny 2s scale that fit perfect - just without the tray.
All they need is a splash guard on the underside of the device and we've solved the drip issue.
Will the Niche Zero grind small enough for this?
Yes!
No room for sensibly priced scales!!?
I have the exact setup (Flair 58 and DF64V) purchased the searchpean tiny 2s scale that is much cheaper. Some minor quirks - but perfectly fine. Just not able to use the tray as anything touching the side of the scale can tamper the measurements.
i also have the exact grinder (at least for now, i am planning to get a monolit flat max2 :) ), but for the scale i use a acaia lunar. that also has to be centered well, as any touching from the tray sides will be problematic.
How do you compare Flair espresso to Nurri Lev?
Not the same league really, but still Flair is great considering the price difference. But I just love the steam on the Leva. I like milky drinks cos I'm a peasant 😎
@@homecafecharlie Yes I know it is not the same league, and the Leva has more features. I'm waiting for comparing the results of pure espresso in a cup. :)
Great Review! Surprising to hear about your experiences regarding the optimal grind settings. I'm using the fellow opus with my flair 58 and need to grind way coarser than expected. Usually somewhere at 2.5 and everything below that clogs up so bad, that i get 3 drops of oily goo before i give up.
Interesting! I know the grinder is different for different people, and it could be the basket as well. I used the stock basket for my review. Often with coffee products the variance is big enough even between the same grinders that settings will be different from grinder to grinder, and if you like light roasts as I do that will change things as well
Considering that practically all high end machines still use boilers and only manual machines is it even feasible to NOT use twice boiled water, I think it's safe to say that the difference is negligible. If it made that big of a difference we would see more machines boiling on demand like that $20k Manument James Hoffmann reviewed.
there's no sense in "automatic off timer" - imagine it switching off while you're pulling a shot or while you puck prep. i turn it on at morning and off at evening
unless you work at a coffee, thats quite a waste of energy.
for me i only forgot to switch off during this 1+ years.
I don't know what the energy draw is but I usually only have 2-3 coffees per day, and often just the 1 in the morning. Multiple times I've forgotten to switch it off, probably drains a decent amount of energy
Great video but i must beg to differ with the final note: the flair is not the best purist espresso maker for the price. It is definitely one of the best, but the Leverpresso Pro is about 60% of the price of the Flair 58x, and capable of pulling similar shots. The flair has a leg up with the heated water reservoir and wider range of accessories, as the LP uses a 51mm basket. However, pre-heating is a minor inconvenience to save $300 and I personally prefer shots pulled from thicker pucks. I'm pretty sure I'll pick one of these up in the long run, but I'm pretty happy with my LP. It's gonna be hard to beat.
Mannn shots with a bigger ratio are so good… the only problem is the inner “classic espresso” concept we might have
wow going on about twice boiled water. The review is actually more accurate than most on this machine, but selling different baskets and tampers is against the philosophy of this no nonsense machine. The machine not turning off can be fixed with home automation power plugs. What cannot be fixed is that you cannot automatically turn it on for a morning preheat. Also the middle heat setting is effectively the same as the top setting, and the low setting lets the water keep cooling too much. So in all, this is the best machine out there for a perfect manual extraction unless you want get into to temperature surfing, which is a real thing for seeking an excellent extraction, as in a Decent.
Are there any companies that actually support their products? Breville does not offer repair parts. When my machine kicks the bucket I'm considering one of these manual presses but I would prefer to get a machine that the company actually stands behind and sells parts beyond warranty.
Breville/Sage is actually one of the few that makes it very hard to repair it yourself. I can't imagine how a Flair could go wrong other than needing a gasket change. It's really simple, and you can buy parts on their site or from resellers.
I found out the hard way that the Breville has a teflon coated plastic for the grouphead/inner shower. Mine was flaking! Thus why I'm here looking into the flair products. Machines are too expensive, too much upkeep and inevitably break/need repair.
@@alang253 Flair won’t need much if any of that. I haven’t done anything with it and it’s still working like a charm!
@@homecafecharlie just got my Pro2 yesterday. definitely a true 'end game' machine. (I hate using that phrase)
3:09 no the fuck it don't, Jesus.
😁
Over priced product…
Stop being poor