Put panels on shed roof too will remove energy from the roof into the battery and keep the heat down in the shed to a degree.
14 днів тому
PV panels work on the shorter side of wavelenghts, like between 800nm to 600nm. Heat, like 5-15μm just accumulates and about 70% of the 800-609nm light is converted to heat also. So, basically, PVs will trap more heat into the shed. There are ways around that, like forced ventilation, liquid cooled hybrid PV... but just flat on the roof means more heat. But he sports uninsulated sheet metal roof on that garage. That's a frying pan in the summer. Shoving an AC in it will just waste money and solar power.
Wasn't suggesting flat on the roof still use mounting brackets etc as it appears for me that roofs with solar on it dont seem to be as hot from direct sunlight but not measured it, but yeah there is a company in Western Australia ua-cam.com/video/-dJixtZdkU0/v-deo.html developed a solution to extract the hot air to ensure no hot spots on panels and then use that heat for other purposes (hot water, room heating etc - not so useful in Aus summer time). The shed would need decent insulation to put an A/C on it to try maximize the cooling from it, would have thought its just to get the temp down in the shed to take the edge of summer heat mitigating the damage on the batteries and electronics, definitely would need energy to burn though for it.
You are absolutely right about the shadows. I built temporary solar panel mount arrays during the summer exactly as you said. I didn’t give enough room for shade during the winter months when the sun was low in the sky. I waited until December 21st the shortest day to realign and measure exactly where and how high to mount my panels.
Geothermal, if you have access to a backhoe, and if you don't have bedrock just under ground, a 200mm pipe like a plastic drain pipe run for a 100 plus meters underground will cool air down to ground temp, coming from inlet and going to shed. (Also warm it if you have freezing temps). Then all you need is a fan. Need it minimum about 3 meters deep. Not sure where your located but I'm assuming Australia. Queensland has higher ground temp, but New South Wales averages 15°C to 20°C ground temp. By about 4 or 5 meters depth you get away from seasonal fluxuations to more steady state temperatures.
Time of use, if you are overpanelled a bit, actually better to shift them slightly to the west, do soupcan angling around 1pm-2pm to grab the spot that will leave batteries fully charged more toward night. If your paneled right on the money than I would set them at 12:30 with the soupcan.
What has worked very well for us is having far fewer panels, but mounted in pairs on poles with both horizontal and directional manual adjustment. Since there is Always someone on the property, we just rotate the panels two or three times during the day and change the inclination angle across the seasons. Just a few minutes effort a day, when we can also check for dirt and wiring issues, and we need far fewer panels than for a static arrangement. (The mountings are far less expensive than the panels.)
Wow! That actually sounds like a fantastically simple solution. And being a homesteader who can set my own priorities and workday, that could work in really well with my routines. have you published any of this online that I could look at? (Instagram, UA-cam, etc?)
I set up in summer2023, now in winter and the mountain shades the property at 3pm, in summer sun till 8pm, I added a 4th array to a better spot, I will have to move 1 or all 3 arrays to get winter sun for and extra 90mins and a possible extra 10kw with sun. One fan in the wall near the top of the shed and air inlet on the floor might be enough cooling. I smashed 2 panels, clear coat enamel 2 coats and reinstall, the shattered glass is bonded to the cells, just need to waterproof it. I have my panels vertical at 90 deg, summer I make 6kw from 11.6kw but more than enough power by 10am, a few days ago with lower sun 11.4kw only 200w under rated max. When I get snow I have to disconnect a panel from each string or it will over AMP the mppts. If you want to try vertical surrounded with white rock it makes the pv more consistant through the year and 50% less heat in the panel work best with bi facial panels. My cheap mount if you want to try 1 array vertical. ua-cam.com/users/shortsSXYpTxhJAFI
I think its a fairly good start. I leave things loose at the beginning too. But you don't want cables carrying that much power just laying on the ground indefinitely, and you don't want to leave panels laying on the ground either, not long term. The moisture will do a number on the seals and reduce their life-span considerably. So once you find yourself in a happy place, really consider building a little more permanency into the system. I will note that there is no need to have the solar shed near the panels. The panels are back-hauling high voltages... as high or higher than your AC in fact. I would locate the shed closer to the home, for sure. One reason to locate equipment closer to the home has to do with grounding considerations. If the home is providing the main earth ground for the system, locating equipment far away from that ground rod may result in a significant potential difference between the equipment ground and the earth ground at the shed, creating a shock hazard. Another reason to locate the equipment closer to the home is to reduce the chance that nearby lightning strikes will fry everything. You can put more substantial surge and lightning protection on the DC side. And finally, make sure the shed can handle sub-zero temperatures if you are in a location where sub-zero temperatures are possible. -Matt
All solid reasons and I wish I had that option. What I didn’t make clear in the video is that I have buildings 100m away from each other - all requiring power so we split the difference and put the solar field in the centre along with the gear because cable sizing for voltage drop over 50m was WAY cheaper than for 100. Fair point on all the gear on the ground too. I should at least get around to running it all in conduit. Next upgrade I want to do is moveable array racks so I can swap between winter and summer locations easily and with adjustable angle settings. Got a few ideas for these. Might be an autumn project, will be sure to get those panels up higher when I do it.
Regarding the panel angle, the bulk of my panels are literally just lying flat on their backs, I also have 4 strings on the house roof angled towards the morning sun and are on a different charge controller and from what I've seen so far over the last few years is that while the angled panels on the house roof perform slightly better than the rest which are lying flat on the garage roof, the flat lying panels produce more energy because they continue working until the sun sets while the angled panels literally shoot themselves in the foot because of the angle.... I see a lot of emphasis put into panel angles and I'm not really seeing a huge difference unless you are getting any shade, even the shadow of a wire makes a difference! And where I am in suburban Melbourne, the winter sun goes behind the two storey houses behind me that also happen to be sitting a couple of metres higher up due to the land being slightly hilly.... In my case, I have to install a set of winter panels that will perform best and only for the winter months which is the last two weeks of June and the first two weeks of July, after that the system just takes off and I have more energy than I know what to do with! I have been running electric fan heaters on hot days just because I can! I wouldn't imagine doing that while being connected to the grid....
With that small power shed you could get the smallest A/C made & keep it nice inside without burning up a whole lotta power. Just add more panels to cover the extra power used.
I'm in the southwestern US, I installed two solar AC inverters for our home and put the solar panels on the southern end of our roof. I did the exact same thing with the shadows. In the summer everything worked as I had planned. BUT now that it's winter (northern hemisphere) the shadows are now covering 30% of the panels! DAM! I have a tree guy scheduled to take the tree down this Sunday which will take care of the issue since this is the only tree close to the house! Like this gentlemen, lesson learned!
re: shadows @ 4:42-- an 8m tree will have a shadow length of 23m when the sun is at an altitude of 15 degrees. you could compare 23m to the stakes you've used to mark the shadow line. here's the equation if you need to adjust the angle/altitude or the height of the tree: shadow length = tree height / tan(angle). tree height = tan(angle)*shadow length
@@reganperry it'd be interesting to know what the longest shadow is about an hour before sunset. that might simulate where the sun will be at the winter solstice (just from a different direction.) it also helps to calibrate the assumptions used in the equation(s).
I loved the video, sometimes the youtube algorythm works to find good new channels. I thank you for your honest points and yes you do often learn more from your mistakes and it looks like yours haven't cost you too much financially just in time lost thankfully. If Imay make a suggestion, with regard to the cooling of your electrictronics, once you have decided on your final location you could dig a trench about 1m deep and 25m to 50m long, the longer the better, Then bury clay sewage pipes in the bottom with your ends sticking out about 1/2m above ground, to stop water ingress. Then fit a fan either end to encourage airflow into the structure, this should provide much cooler air than the outside ambient temperature during the day and warmer during the night and will also give you a more constant temperature all year round, especially if you do insulate the car port structure. It should also reduce the need for costly aircon both in power used and running costs. You can also use the pipe to run your cables in, giving them extra protection from varmints etc.
You got an RS450, so you could design your strings to do more than 300V - More than the 220V mains voltage. In that way the voltage drop on the DC side would be less than on the AC side. You could move most of it inside your already air-conditioned home.
I wish I could but #1 we’re trying to get away with no air conditioning (we’ll see how we survive this summer!) and #2 I have buildings 50m north of solar panels and buildings 50m south of them so no choice but to set the gear up half way between
I would not put air con, put some cooling earth tubes in, you have the space. I have some prob with trees fine to the north but to the west very shaded so lose a lot of afternoon sun
Interesting. You can always learn more about solar apparently. My off-grid cabin in the boreal forest is always a tweek or two from optimal that's why it's always getting minor adjustments.
I’m definitely in the ‘early learning’ phase (after the initial ‘study before buying’ phase), but I can certainly see why the learning curve continues and how ongoing tweaks are just going to be part and parcel of it.
I didn't watch your earlier video, but I'm not sure the DC line coming from the solar panels is a low voltage line. You can connect strings up to 450 V to some Victron charge controllers. That is more than the 220 V AC that you convert it to.
Dig a root cellar to put batteries and electronics in. And if you can dig trenches and put in piping to either force air or fluid, though to help keep everything cool. Geothermal is the way to go, mate!
How from the shed to the dam? Have you thought about running air ducting underwater in the dam to cool the air, then feeding it into the shed for cooling.
What's your open circuit PV voltage? Solar is generally not low voltage. It's cheaper to run 2 x 6mm pv cable than it is to run 10mm-16mm twin core and earth. I'm running my panels 140m from my dwelling and inverter setup. I've got 4kW of panels and we hit that quite often in peak sun
instead of building think of maybe a shipping container or better a portacom or even a cheap caravan, as long as its not to far gone (able to to be made serviceable with some minor/cosmetic touch-ups) it can work out cheaper in time effort and cost over all, with the bonus if plans do change its easier to relocate and rewire than rebuild again, with mine i brought a cheap caravan broken windows drawbar and running gear needing replacing but the cabin part was water tight so i boarded up windows converted/ removed running gear to be able to be mounted on a car trailer, if needed, for mobility
radiant barrier. Although temperature does increase battery calendar agining, it is unlikley to effect most electrincs. Slap a solar fan on the shed, line it with radiant barrier and that should be all you need.
actually if you can accommodate building a tracker and having the panels on a north south straight line. panels will be flat at solar noon and pick up east west in the morning and arvo and pick up about 35-40% more power plus elevated that the trees have less effect on them
I wonder if any makers have made arduino driven sun trackers for their panels to optimize not just for the season but for the hour of the day. I also wonder how much the servos would cost.
Need shade so electronics don't overheat? If your shed gets hotter than ambient temp in the shade (certainly it does)... then, Insulate and ventilate => 100% shade at ambient temp. Save the trees??? How about firewood and replace them with blueberry, vineyard, garden, dwarf fruits, etc?
Shade is better than direct sun on your solar shed but the temp in there during the summer is still going to be way to high for your batteries and your Victron equipment! Move all that equipment into your living environment and beef up the wiring from your solar panels to your house!
I wish I could. Unfortunately I’ve got buildings 100 m apart from each other and need to provide power to both. The most cost-effective solution is to put the inverter and all related equipment halfway between all these buildings. The cost of 100 meter cable over a 50 meter cable is exponentially higher! 😬 That being said I did check Victron‘s specs as well as the specs on my Renogy batteries and both allow operating temperatures up to 50° C. The most I’ve seen in this shed before doing this shade upgrade was 39 and I think we’ve achieved a couple of degrees cooler than that at least. However, as I mentioned, I suspect that after reviewing this summers performance I’m going to want to at least insulate this carport and provide electric ventilation, possibly even consider air-conditioning the space. Our main home isn’t an air-conditioned (I kinda hate air-conditioning TBH 😜)
@@reganperry -- An small efficient A/C (5K BTU) wouldn't use much power if you insulated the shed well and it would help keep the humidly down. Good luck!
You actually want to aim them at Solar Noon... which is for the most part pointed North for people in the southern hemisphere and south for the northern. Solar Noon is not the same as due north.
@@reganperry When are you batteries at least charge? The morning. No, you should point to the east to have power to use early in the day. Under most combinations of batteries and panels, your batteries will still be topped off by the end of your solar day. With current prices, people oversize the panels, to make sure you are charged at the end of the day on or two days after cloudy weather.
Another mistake, those panels should be higher up. Less shadow issues, they get less dirty . No constant need to make sure no weeds grow bigger than a few cm in front of the panels etc...
For what it's worth,I put my solar panels on my roof and thought I had accounted for all of the shadows, but the southern shift got me also. I did not realize the shift would be that dramatic and make the shadows of a tree that did not affect the panels in the summer, now has a big shadow that's covering 30% of the panels. The point? Even if they're high up on a roof sometimes you can miss things especially if you don't know to look for them.
.he will be relocating them, you can see that spacing on them is nonsensical. in low angle sun season, northern string is shading southern one, also shed will cast shadow on panels too.
The sun does rise slightly south of due east at the summer solstice in the southern hemisphere, north of due east on the northern hemisphere summer solstice. Maybe you weren’t as far off as you thought, that fact can make east-west look deceiving.
Not to mention solar panels lose efficiency the hotter they get. Get them up off the ground so you have air flow under them. All that radiating heat from the ground is probably knocking out about 10% of your power on the hot days.
That’s an interesting point. I wouldn’t have thought 10% though? And what about panels mounted to a house roof, how do they keep those cool? Might be interesting to run a comparison test when I build better racks for them.
In the cooler months and mornings, likely not going to lose anything. But our Australian weather isn't cool most of the time. The ground is a massive thermal mass and it will radiate that heat straight into the panels. Roof mountings are usually fine because even on a roof they are slightly elevated due to the support system they're installed on and the corrugated nature of roofs. Then there is the that most roofs are hollow and don't have any real thermal mass, so any heat they radiate, is just the bounce UV radiation. Should be easy enough to keep track of the evidence loss with your Victron hardware as it should hold a record of your daily current input.
@@SovakaKindred aha that makes a lot of sense! I guess it’s not as noticeable for me right now because of all the extra solar energy I’m getting from the summer sun angles but now I’m wondering just how much MORE I could be getting if we lifted them… Especially as these are pretty old panels Thanks for the tip!
@@reganperry Obviously you can only work with what you have and make changes as time and money allow and if you are currently meeting your electrical requirements, then all is good. But it also speaks to the lifetime argument you made about not pushing the electrical items heat limits. I'd be interested to know the differences as well!
But Regan.. the first rooky mistake is that your DC from the panels must be low voltage.. !!! Isn't your charge controller 150volts DC capabile? you really should be using one with say a 450V DC input capability.. ensureing the cabling, isolators etc are all more than capable of these voltages..
@@robdavy4468 ahh yeah fair. Not really LV is it 🤣. Should have said DC. What I was trying to convey was that the cables from panels to controller can be a lesser gauge than your mains cables.
The voltage drop from inverter to house is WAY more important tan drop from the panels. Low voltage to the house car wreck your equipment in the house. Voltage drop from panel to MPPT just looks like, to the MPPT, less sun. Run panels in series to keep voltage high. Put your electronics near or in the house. This Also makes WiFi and Bluetooth connection to equipment better.
True. And I wish I could have. Unfortunately I have buildings 50m north of solar panels and 50m south of panels. So we opted for massive mains cable off inverter.
Only really an issue for things with AC motors or resistive heating elements as most other devices operate between 100v - 240v and we're targeting the higher end of that in Aus
As an astronomy teacher, after watching this video, I feel that we failing to educate the public the basic concepts of the apparent motions of the Sun and other "sky" objects. I apologize on behalf of all of us.
Damn man. Is EG4 eqpt not available in AU? Buy surver rack battries and an all in one off grid inverter. Less money and you eqpt room does not look like a mad scientist did it.
Hahaha! Yeah, it is availabkle. But TBH I kinda did the mad scientist thing on purpose. #1 I like to know how things work, so the more I can DIY the better, and #2 I wanted the individual components to be swappable/upgradable at a later date. That being said, I should probably invest in some cable clips and conduit hey 😂
You are silly about shadows there are apps that on your phone track the path of the sun for your location would swipe your phone around and see if in the path tere is an object
You did not miscalculate NOTHING OUTS OUT WHAT IS ALLEGES IT PUTS OUT NOTHING NOTHING AT ALL AND ANOTHER THING ANY AND i DO MEAN ANY BATTERIES YOU ARE CHARGING OFF SOLAR WILL NOT LAST VERY LONG NONE OF THE BATTERIES BRAND MAKE OR TYPE IT DOES NOT MATTER 100 WATTS AND 0,5 AMOS TIMES 100 CAN NOT CHARGE A BATTERY CORRECTLY. Try charging your batteries with a little 200 watt gas generator and a 15 or 25 amp battery charger .
Put panels on shed roof too will remove energy from the roof into the battery and keep the heat down in the shed to a degree.
PV panels work on the shorter side of wavelenghts, like between 800nm to 600nm. Heat, like 5-15μm just accumulates and about 70% of the 800-609nm light is converted to heat also. So, basically, PVs will trap more heat into the shed.
There are ways around that, like forced ventilation, liquid cooled hybrid PV... but just flat on the roof means more heat.
But he sports uninsulated sheet metal roof on that garage. That's a frying pan in the summer. Shoving an AC in it will just waste money and solar power.
Wasn't suggesting flat on the roof still use mounting brackets etc as it appears for me that roofs with solar on it dont seem to be as hot from direct sunlight but not measured it, but yeah there is a company in Western Australia ua-cam.com/video/-dJixtZdkU0/v-deo.html developed a solution to extract the hot air to ensure no hot spots on panels and then use that heat for other purposes (hot water, room heating etc - not so useful in Aus summer time).
The shed would need decent insulation to put an A/C on it to try maximize the cooling from it, would have thought its just to get the temp down in the shed to take the edge of summer heat mitigating the damage on the batteries and electronics, definitely would need energy to burn though for it.
Panels raised off the roof and sloped will allow natural ventilation between the roof and the panels reducing heat build up.
Great Video. Thanks for sharing.
Experience is one of those things you had just before you got it! Lol.
You are absolutely right about the shadows. I built temporary solar panel mount arrays during the summer exactly as you said. I didn’t give enough room for shade during the winter months when the sun was low in the sky. I waited until December 21st the shortest day to realign and measure exactly where and how high to mount my panels.
That’s definitely the way to do it (although June 21st down here 😜)
Thanks Regan, I learned a lot.
Geothermal, if you have access to a backhoe, and if you don't have bedrock just under ground, a 200mm pipe like a plastic drain pipe run for a 100 plus meters underground will cool air down to ground temp, coming from inlet and going to shed. (Also warm it if you have freezing temps). Then all you need is a fan. Need it minimum about 3 meters deep. Not sure where your located but I'm assuming Australia. Queensland has higher ground temp, but New South Wales averages 15°C to 20°C ground temp. By about 4 or 5 meters depth you get away from seasonal fluxuations to more steady state temperatures.
If you are planning to cook the shed, make a roof with the pv, you'll cool the pv as well, and do not waste the heat dump it in a water tank
Time of use, if you are overpanelled a bit, actually better to shift them slightly to the west, do soupcan angling around 1pm-2pm to grab the spot that will leave batteries fully charged more toward night. If your paneled right on the money than I would set them at 12:30 with the soupcan.
Thats sound logic. Overpaneling is king 😊
Loved your reasoning in your angle changes in the seasons. Stay flexible is always a good key.
@@peterjordan9734 thanks! It’s been a learning curve, but I’ll admit I kind of geek out on this stuff 🤣
Unreal editing, unreal narration, unreal video!
@@joshclarke6214 thanks mate!
What has worked very well for us is having far fewer panels, but mounted in pairs on poles with both horizontal and directional manual adjustment. Since there is Always someone on the property, we just rotate the panels two or three times during the day and change the inclination angle across the seasons. Just a few minutes effort a day, when we can also check for dirt and wiring issues, and we need far fewer panels than for a static arrangement. (The mountings are far less expensive than the panels.)
Wow! That actually sounds like a fantastically simple solution. And being a homesteader who can set my own priorities and workday, that could work in really well with my routines.
have you published any of this online that I could look at? (Instagram, UA-cam, etc?)
I set up in summer2023, now in winter and the mountain shades the property at 3pm, in summer sun till 8pm, I added a 4th array to a better spot, I will have to move 1 or all 3 arrays to get winter sun for and extra 90mins and a possible extra 10kw with sun. One fan in the wall near the top of the shed and air inlet on the floor might be enough cooling. I smashed 2 panels, clear coat enamel 2 coats and reinstall, the shattered glass is bonded to the cells, just need to waterproof it. I have my panels vertical at 90 deg, summer I make 6kw from 11.6kw but more than enough power by 10am, a few days ago with lower sun 11.4kw only 200w under rated max. When I get snow I have to disconnect a panel from each string or it will over AMP the mppts. If you want to try vertical surrounded with white rock it makes the pv more consistant through the year and 50% less heat in the panel work best with bi facial panels. My cheap mount if you want to try 1 array vertical. ua-cam.com/users/shortsSXYpTxhJAFI
I think its a fairly good start. I leave things loose at the beginning too. But you don't want cables carrying that much power just laying on the ground indefinitely, and you don't want to leave panels laying on the ground either, not long term. The moisture will do a number on the seals and reduce their life-span considerably. So once you find yourself in a happy place, really consider building a little more permanency into the system.
I will note that there is no need to have the solar shed near the panels. The panels are back-hauling high voltages... as high or higher than your AC in fact. I would locate the shed closer to the home, for sure.
One reason to locate equipment closer to the home has to do with grounding considerations. If the home is providing the main earth ground for the system, locating equipment far away from that ground rod may result in a significant potential difference between the equipment ground and the earth ground at the shed, creating a shock hazard.
Another reason to locate the equipment closer to the home is to reduce the chance that nearby lightning strikes will fry everything. You can put more substantial surge and lightning protection on the DC side.
And finally, make sure the shed can handle sub-zero temperatures if you are in a location where sub-zero temperatures are possible.
-Matt
All solid reasons and I wish I had that option. What I didn’t make clear in the video is that I have buildings 100m away from each other - all requiring power so we split the difference and put the solar field in the centre along with the gear because cable sizing for voltage drop over 50m was WAY cheaper than for 100.
Fair point on all the gear on the ground too. I should at least get around to running it all in conduit. Next upgrade I want to do is moveable array racks so I can swap between winter and summer locations easily and with adjustable angle settings. Got a few ideas for these. Might be an autumn project, will be sure to get those panels up higher when I do it.
Regarding the panel angle, the bulk of my panels are literally just lying flat on their backs, I also have 4 strings on the house roof angled towards the morning sun and are on a different charge controller and from what I've seen so far over the last few years is that while the angled panels on the house roof perform slightly better than the rest which are lying flat on the garage roof, the flat lying panels produce more energy because they continue working until the sun sets while the angled panels literally shoot themselves in the foot because of the angle....
I see a lot of emphasis put into panel angles and I'm not really seeing a huge difference unless you are getting any shade, even the shadow of a wire makes a difference! And where I am in suburban Melbourne, the winter sun goes behind the two storey houses behind me that also happen to be sitting a couple of metres higher up due to the land being slightly hilly....
In my case, I have to install a set of winter panels that will perform best and only for the winter months which is the last two weeks of June and the first two weeks of July, after that the system just takes off and I have more energy than I know what to do with! I have been running electric fan heaters on hot days just because I can! I wouldn't imagine doing that while being connected to the grid....
With that small power shed you could get the smallest A/C made & keep it nice inside without burning up a whole lotta power. Just add more panels to cover the extra power used.
I'm in the southwestern US, I installed two solar AC inverters for our home and put the solar panels on the southern end of our roof. I did the exact same thing with the shadows. In the summer everything worked as I had planned. BUT now that it's winter (northern hemisphere) the shadows are now covering 30% of the panels! DAM! I have a tree guy scheduled to take the tree down this Sunday which will take care of the issue since this is the only tree close to the house! Like this gentlemen, lesson learned!
Yup. You make the best plans you can with the information you have and you keep an ounce of humility to correct them later if you have to 😁
Good to share ideas.
also suggest look at a micro wind turbine setup to add more capacity during the winter period
re: shadows @ 4:42-- an 8m tree will have a shadow length of 23m when the sun is at an altitude of 15 degrees. you could compare 23m to the stakes you've used to mark the shadow line. here's the equation if you need to adjust the angle/altitude or the height of the tree: shadow length = tree height / tan(angle). tree height = tan(angle)*shadow length
@@JoeWojniak 🤯🤯 I suppose I could have worked out a year’s worth of shadow data in a day or two!
@@reganperry it'd be interesting to know what the longest shadow is about an hour before sunset. that might simulate where the sun will be at the winter solstice (just from a different direction.) it also helps to calibrate the assumptions used in the equation(s).
I loved the video, sometimes the youtube algorythm works to find good new channels.
I thank you for your honest points and yes you do often learn more from your mistakes and it looks like yours haven't cost you too much financially just in time lost thankfully.
If Imay make a suggestion, with regard to the cooling of your electrictronics, once you have decided on your final location you could dig a trench about 1m deep and 25m to 50m long, the longer the better, Then bury clay sewage pipes in the bottom with your ends sticking out about 1/2m above ground, to stop water ingress. Then fit a fan either end to encourage airflow into the structure, this should provide much cooler air than the outside ambient temperature during the day and warmer during the night and will also give you a more constant temperature all year round, especially if you do insulate the car port structure. It should also reduce the need for costly aircon both in power used and running costs. You can also use the pipe to run your cables in, giving them extra protection from varmints etc.
You got an RS450, so you could design your strings to do more than 300V - More than the 220V mains voltage. In that way the voltage drop on the DC side would be less than on the AC side. You could move most of it inside your already air-conditioned home.
In America, with 120 V mains voltage for a typical off-grid situation, that is even more true.
I wish I could but #1 we’re trying to get away with no air conditioning (we’ll see how we survive this summer!) and #2 I have buildings 50m north of solar panels and buildings 50m south of them so no choice but to set the gear up half way between
@@reganperry He meant alternating current, not air conditioning.
I would not put air con, put some cooling earth tubes in, you have the space.
I have some prob with trees fine to the north but to the west very shaded so lose a lot of afternoon sun
Love the details and you have a new subscriber
Interesting. You can always learn more about solar apparently. My off-grid cabin in the boreal forest is always a tweek or two from optimal that's why it's always getting minor adjustments.
I’m definitely in the ‘early learning’ phase (after the initial ‘study before buying’ phase), but I can certainly see why the learning curve continues and how ongoing tweaks are just going to be part and parcel of it.
I didn't watch your earlier video, but I'm not sure the DC line coming from the solar panels is a low voltage line. You can connect strings up to 450 V to some Victron charge controllers. That is more than the 220 V AC that you convert it to.
DC and AC circuits do not behave the same due to the skin effect, you want DC lines to be as short as possible
@@ttkddry Skin effect negatively affects AC lines, which is why you'd prefer DC lines over AC lines under the same conditions.
@GerbenWulff yes you are right but resistance makes DC cables extra thick thus expensive, that is a reason to keep them short
Yes, you should optimize your solar panels by keeping them in the shade. That way they will stay cool.
@@christopherzatalokin8652 hahaha 😜🤣
Dig a root cellar to put batteries and electronics in. And if you can dig trenches and put in piping to either force air or fluid, though to help keep everything cool. Geothermal is the way to go, mate!
How from the shed to the dam? Have you thought about running air ducting underwater in the dam to cool the air, then feeding it into the shed for cooling.
What's your open circuit PV voltage? Solar is generally not low voltage. It's cheaper to run 2 x 6mm pv cable than it is to run 10mm-16mm twin core and earth. I'm running my panels 140m from my dwelling and inverter setup. I've got 4kW of panels and we hit that quite often in peak sun
put a cooling fan in your box. you could run a couple of 12v units. like a computer fan.
Keep an eye out for cool room panels for walls even roof of carport
Great Idea!
Suggestion: Think of a minisplit HVAC unit for the 'electronics shed'.
instead of building think of maybe a shipping container or better a portacom or even a cheap caravan, as long as its not to far gone (able to to be made serviceable with some minor/cosmetic touch-ups) it can work out cheaper in time effort and cost over all, with the bonus if plans do change its easier to relocate and rewire than rebuild again, with mine i brought a cheap caravan broken windows drawbar and running gear needing replacing but the cabin part was water tight so i boarded up windows converted/ removed running gear to be able to be mounted on a car trailer, if needed, for mobility
Very informative thx!
how you mistook north by 45 degrees ?!
can you look where sun is at noon ?
radiant barrier. Although temperature does increase battery calendar agining, it is unlikley to effect most electrincs. Slap a solar fan on the shed, line it with radiant barrier and that should be all you need.
you are wrong, it most definitively will affect longevity of electronics. and efficiency.
but great video's.. your very animated, learned and entertaining.. Thank you
Thanks!
actually if you can accommodate building a tracker and having the panels on a north south straight line. panels will be flat at solar noon and pick up east west in the morning and arvo and pick up about 35-40% more power plus elevated that the trees have less effect on them
I wonder if any makers have made arduino driven sun trackers for their panels to optimize not just for the season but for the hour of the day. I also wonder how much the servos would cost.
What if you put the pv panel as the carport?
Need shade so electronics don't overheat? If your shed gets hotter than ambient temp in the shade (certainly it does)... then, Insulate and ventilate => 100% shade at ambient temp. Save the trees??? How about firewood and replace them with blueberry, vineyard, garden, dwarf fruits, etc?
Shade is better than direct sun on your solar shed but the temp in there during the summer is still going to be way to high for your batteries and your Victron equipment! Move all that equipment into your living environment and beef up the wiring from your solar panels to your house!
I wish I could. Unfortunately I’ve got buildings 100 m apart from each other and need to provide power to both. The most cost-effective solution is to put the inverter and all related equipment halfway between all these buildings. The cost of 100 meter cable over a 50 meter cable is exponentially higher! 😬
That being said I did check Victron‘s specs as well as the specs on my Renogy batteries and both allow operating temperatures up to 50° C.
The most I’ve seen in this shed before doing this shade upgrade was 39 and I think we’ve achieved a couple of degrees cooler than that at least.
However, as I mentioned, I suspect that after reviewing this summers performance I’m going to want to at least insulate this carport and provide electric ventilation, possibly even consider air-conditioning the space.
Our main home isn’t an air-conditioned (I kinda hate air-conditioning TBH 😜)
@@reganperry -- An small efficient A/C (5K BTU) wouldn't use much power if you insulated the shed well and it would help keep the humidly down. Good luck!
Great video - and let's be honest, the rest of us could all use a little humility in our lives too :D
Thanks bro! So true hey, you never improve without it 👊
You actually want to aim them at Solar Noon... which is for the most part pointed North for people in the southern hemisphere and south for the northern. Solar Noon is not the same as due north.
It is often advantageous to point a bit east of solar noon. Morning power is often more valuable than afternoon power.
Interesting. Our heaviest usage is between 3-7pm so I wonder if I should consider a slight west offset
@@reganperry When are you batteries at least charge? The morning. No, you should point to the east to have power to use early in the day. Under most combinations of batteries and panels, your batteries will still be topped off by the end of your solar day. With current prices, people oversize the panels, to make sure you are charged at the end of the day on or two days after cloudy weather.
Another mistake, those panels should be higher up. Less shadow issues, they get less dirty . No constant need to make sure no weeds grow bigger than a few cm in front of the panels etc...
they certainly need to be raised. i suppose they are just temporary till the bloke finds out where they are supposed to etc
For what it's worth,I put my solar panels on my roof and thought I had accounted for all of the shadows, but the southern shift got me also. I did not realize the shift would be that dramatic and make the shadows of a tree that did not affect the panels in the summer, now has a big shadow that's covering 30% of the panels. The point? Even if they're high up on a roof sometimes you can miss things especially if you don't know to look for them.
.he will be relocating them, you can see that spacing on them is nonsensical. in low angle sun season, northern string is shading southern one, also shed will cast shadow on panels too.
@@Jamey_ETHZurich_TUe_Rulez
they are certainly spaced to close together.
australians have to make it first wrong before they learn.
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The sun does rise slightly south of due east at the summer solstice in the southern hemisphere, north of due east on the northern hemisphere summer solstice. Maybe you weren’t as far off as you thought, that fact can make east-west look deceiving.
Ahh good point, but we’re still a month or so off that and I was definitely off by at least 40°.
What about all the electric cars like Tesla, with lithium batteries and electronics that sit out directly in full sun day after day?
Gotta assume they’ve insulated them a bit bitter than a tin shed hey! 😜
If a tree is 10m tall, it needs to be at least 10m away from your panrels, shed, home, etc.
That charge controler can take 450 votes dc up the votlage
159 votes
there is specific math calculations for predicting how the sun and shade move
Not to mention solar panels lose efficiency the hotter they get. Get them up off the ground so you have air flow under them. All that radiating heat from the ground is probably knocking out about 10% of your power on the hot days.
That’s an interesting point. I wouldn’t have thought 10% though? And what about panels mounted to a house roof, how do they keep those cool? Might be interesting to run a comparison test when I build better racks for them.
In the cooler months and mornings, likely not going to lose anything. But our Australian weather isn't cool most of the time. The ground is a massive thermal mass and it will radiate that heat straight into the panels. Roof mountings are usually fine because even on a roof they are slightly elevated due to the support system they're installed on and the corrugated nature of roofs. Then there is the that most roofs are hollow and don't have any real thermal mass, so any heat they radiate, is just the bounce UV radiation. Should be easy enough to keep track of the evidence loss with your Victron hardware as it should hold a record of your daily current input.
@@SovakaKindred aha that makes a lot of sense!
I guess it’s not as noticeable for me right now because of all the extra solar energy I’m getting from the summer sun angles but now I’m wondering just how much MORE I could be getting if we lifted them… Especially as these are pretty old panels
Thanks for the tip!
@@reganperry Obviously you can only work with what you have and make changes as time and money allow and if you are currently meeting your electrical requirements, then all is good. But it also speaks to the lifetime argument you made about not pushing the electrical items heat limits. I'd be interested to know the differences as well!
But Regan.. the first rooky mistake is that your DC from the panels must be low voltage.. !!!
Isn't your charge controller 150volts DC capabile? you really should be using one with say a 450V DC input capability.. ensureing the cabling, isolators etc are all more than capable of these voltages..
It is. I’m running into a 450v 2 string controller. Panels are in 350v strings arranged in 2S2P. And yep, got some nice beefy cables/switches/fuses.
Agreed - I was confused about how 350-450v is "low voltage" lol
@@robdavy4468 ahh yeah fair. Not really LV is it 🤣. Should have said DC. What I was trying to convey was that the cables from panels to controller can be a lesser gauge than your mains cables.
Put a simple DC 24v AC in the shed. Uses like 250-300w. Problem solved. Also add. A few 550w panels on top of the shed. problem solved twice.
Not a bad idea! 🤔
Are u in qld or wa
The voltage drop from inverter to house is WAY more important tan drop from the panels. Low voltage to the house car wreck your equipment in the house. Voltage drop from panel to MPPT just looks like, to the MPPT, less sun. Run panels in series to keep voltage high. Put your electronics near or in the house. This Also makes WiFi and Bluetooth connection to equipment better.
True. And I wish I could have. Unfortunately I have buildings 50m north of solar panels and 50m south of panels. So we opted for massive mains cable off inverter.
Only really an issue for things with AC motors or resistive heating elements as most other devices operate between 100v - 240v and we're targeting the higher end of that in Aus
As an astronomy teacher, after watching this video, I feel that we failing to educate the public the basic concepts of the apparent motions of the Sun and other "sky" objects.
I apologize on behalf of all of us.
Damn man. Is EG4 eqpt not available in AU?
Buy surver rack battries and an all in one off grid inverter.
Less money and you eqpt room does not look like a mad scientist did it.
Hahaha! Yeah, it is availabkle. But TBH I kinda did the mad scientist thing on purpose. #1 I like to know how things work, so the more I can DIY the better, and #2 I wanted the individual components to be swappable/upgradable at a later date. That being said, I should probably invest in some cable clips and conduit hey 😂
🌅Use 400vDC...up to 200 meters @12 amps =
But victron aint always the best way to go.
@@SuperMaiki76 got a better preference?
Buy a EcoWave 2 AC/Heat pump and connect its own solar panels directly to it right inside the small shed. Problem solved 🤓
You are silly about shadows there are apps that on your phone track the path of the sun for your location would swipe your phone around and see if in the path tere is an object
A shame the car port is black.
Only the little shed is dark, the car port over is actually silver (might look different in the video)
an australian will make everything wrong before, reluctantly, will correct it.
Next time less coffee before filming. Lol
😜
You did not miscalculate NOTHING OUTS OUT WHAT IS ALLEGES IT PUTS OUT NOTHING NOTHING AT ALL AND ANOTHER THING ANY AND i DO MEAN ANY BATTERIES YOU ARE CHARGING OFF SOLAR WILL NOT LAST VERY LONG NONE OF THE BATTERIES BRAND MAKE OR TYPE IT DOES NOT MATTER 100 WATTS AND 0,5 AMOS TIMES 100 CAN NOT CHARGE A BATTERY CORRECTLY. Try charging your batteries with a little 200 watt gas generator and a 15 or 25 amp battery charger .