Hey guys, thanks so much for the cast! I know the players are trying to win at all cost and they are using the faction and commander best suited to it, but it's obvious there is a balance issue when you see the same 2 commanders/factions in 99% of these competitive matches.
Game has been horrifically broken for a long long time. I used to be part of a top-50 3v3 team and whenever we tryharded, we played the same commanders.
Can't say I've seen any strategy game at the top level have balance. When players get to THAT level, they find the slightest imbalance to give them favor. The thing that's great is it won't matter for 95% of the player-base. You can't have game developers flip the script for such a small percentage of the player-base.
That's why I'm sure a lot of us found that terminator tournament (players get to use commanders only once then have to use another) so more interesting to watch
Same. Both finals EVERY SINGLE GAME ostruppen vs mech... I was waiting for this tournament but managed to watch one game only... This meta in unwatchable.
@@silentascari2180 No, it's irony. But the mere fact that you believed it, and I assume you read the comments after having watched the video, means there is a biiiit of an issue with factions, commanders and how they are balanced.
@@nehcrum I suspected after the fact that it was irony, and especially after re-installing the game and realizing. I haven’t been in the loop for quite some time, and (just from this video) regained interest after playing some old Halo Wars. Is there any other tournaments that you’d recommend which have a variety of nations / commander?
Watching your casts got me into this game, and I recently stepped back into multiplayer, where I've done my best to emulate the good plays you bring us so often. Thanks for all you do to keep the game alive, and who knows, maybe one day I'll be up at the top end! (In about fifteen years, when we're all on CoH 5!)
I was SO excited for this tournament but alas all it was was two factions and the same two commanders . For a game with such depth this is just depressing , especially after the last tournament being the exact same thing
Every competitive game is like that though. There is a meta for a reason you know and that streches from CoH2, SC2 and even games like Warzone. And in a tournament situation no one is going to experiment.
@@asdasd5020 That's why they should implement that each player can ban two commanders from being used by their opponent like in some moba games for example !
@@asdasd5020 idk much about coh2 but sc2 races are pretty equally distributed and viable at pro-level. And there's a very good mix of playstyles in the pro scene.
What about a Pick‘n Ban tournament? Before each match players can ban e.g. 3 Commanders. Then they start picking their stuff but every item can only be picked once.
A fun thing would be to make it so that each player bans three commanders in each faction, and neither they or their opponent may pick any of the banned ones (regardless of who banned it).
yea, the AoE2 community does that very successfully in most tournaments with its civilizations. Ofter something like best of 5, pick 7 each and ban one of the opponants. also avoids mirrors etc and adds a little strategy componant regarding picking. works very well there and keeps the games exciting.
So I got yelled at by people in Tightropes comments the other day because I said the meta is super stale and this tournament has just proven it to me so I did a count. Of the Day 2, 3 and 4 games, a total of 27 games, 10 games WERE NOT, Ostruppen vs USF Mechanized Commander. 2 Soviets (Asiamint), 4 OKW, 2 British, 2 German Infantry, 1 USF Rifle Company and 1 USF Paras. It's entirely possible that I missed a game or two but either way its very obvious that there is a problem right now. When I get some time I'll go through it all and put it in a spreadsheet to figure out the exact from all games, including day 1 where there was a good bit of diversity. It also got worse as the Tournament went along with none of the 4 games of day 4 featuring anything different and I believe only 2 games on day 3 having anything different.
@@swahiliranger1022 I agree, just like a person can die off mentally and be suicidially depressed as opposed to physically dying with a knife through the heart, CoH2 is dying the spiritual/mental death. The issue again, has to do with very stupid choices in balancing and act of changing the balancing in such a way that we've deviated from original faction design without revisiting and possibly overhauling entire factions. I always say this, but if you take OKW as an example, they've lost way too much utility and firepower over the years without proper compensation, and players these days just keep complaining about them being 'OP' almost as if it were an ingrained habit. OKW tech structure is based on certain assumptions, for example, by going battlegroup and foregoing a light tank the original design stipulates a strong infantry unit in the Obers (who are now underperforming for their price and upkeep, plus they die super easily). Infantry have lost antitank (no other faction needs a commander specific, Panzerfussilier, unit to have AT) and when I checked old videos, it wasn't like the Volks had 2 rocket launchers, they only had the 1! So when you've got such obvious holes due to years of incompetence in complaints and balancing which fundamentally perverts a faction's core design, certain commanders like Ostruppen Doctrine for Werhmacht really fills those holes up... something which shouldn't be happening. Commanders should complement and supplement, not act as a stopper for major leaks in the hull of a ship.
@@samwu1836 what ? old volks were bonkers, making pzshrecks blobs that melted everything. Sturmpioneers get access to shreck, so i dont get your complaint about AT.Soviets only get AT rifles without doctrine. And while idk about ober, volks aren't weak
Right, the howitzers for that first game would have been a great call. The Pak 40s controlled so much of the field that Isildur's tanks where able to gain vet in relative safety while the Shermans couldn't get anything done. Building more Shermans was just a fool's errand.
Such a great game. I genuinely think it's the most fun rts game out there. Shame that it's so deep so many people don't even touch it but it definitely deserves more esports recognition
I bought this game about a year ago. I was able to play it today because I just got an ASUS TUF DASH F15 laptop on the day it came out. Wow, such an old game and the graphics still look so so so nice and good! I love it so so much! I am playing the Ardennes Assault campaign and it is so realistic lifely and not robotic. Very good job Relic! I am waiting for the next COH 3 to see how stunning the gameplay and graphics are (:
Great casting guys! Any chance of an interview with the finalists? Always interesting to hear their insider perspectives on the series and tournament as a whole
Congrats to the winner and great thanks to all involved! Finally a balanced grand final, and potentially whole, tournament. No more seeing 5 allies wins vs 0 axis losses every single match-up like a year ago and up until the most recent patch. We can confidently say the better player won on the day rather than the player with most allies games on his side. If I was looking at balancing the game in the future I would be reviewing (ostruppen and mechanized) how each side/commander operated (ie. lack of mortar and various other units being used), adjusting for desirability and then aiming to raise each other faction + commander up to the same level. Current lack of other factions and commanders is regrettable, but when each player uses identical commanders and wins with and against equal times then it does, at least on paper, indicate there is balance (between those commanders). Only player skill is having effect. Here's hoping all commanders are so balanced in the future that players go in with their preferred commander into the tournaments rather than the ones that have the most tools/flexibility at their disposal.
4 роки тому+12
Thanks for the cast ! But I really wonder were you really excited during the matches?. Because I was expecting to watch and learn from this tournament. Only thing I learnt is that: Relic reaally should balance the commanders and factions. I have never seen such a monotone World Championship. What a disappointment. What a "Meta"...
is there championship about all unit mod, 500popcap, x3resources, 4vs4 match? because i like big match like real and i am good at. also i have club about it
Noggano lost the first game because he was so repulsive towards the idea of building 50.cal mgs, an I haven't seen a single support fire unit, you can't beat instant supression mg42 with riflemen spam... his strategy was his downfall, gg anyway and nice commentary as usual you guys !
Can we please get some balance changes for OKW? I skimmed through almost the entire tournament and almost no one played OKW. Especially in the later rounds where big money is at stake. Its so obvious, OKW is in a very bad spot. Last patch nerfed the Tiger, the one thing that OKW relied on and now OKW is gone. OKW has had very poor commander variety and especially unit variety. The next balance patch needs to have big changes for them! And make Königstiger worth building for once. Its such a long tech route but that tank is way too slow and clunky to use. Needs better mobility as it was always outshined by a regular Tiger.
@@SavinVitaliy312 Hardly. It's always frustrating because every time I see a valid point like this being raised, there's always some inevitably making a comment like yours. No wonder the game stays unbalanced while people still scratch their head wondering why balancing isn't happening. Every time a good observation or idea is shared it's just shot down. Look the King Tiger is not better on a practical level. In every metric it is underperforming. Its cost to performance is shockingly bad, the fact that many tanks can bounce the shells fired from a tank that costs as much and takes a long as the KT to come out is not only absurd, it's unfair to the OKW player. Let's be real people, to any Allied MOFO reading my comment, put your hand on your heart and tell me what right you have to drive an oppressive 0 IQ flamer M3 scout car at the start of the game while OKW units have 0 effective ways to counter it without using 200 IQ mines, PzFus snares (meaning the OKW player has no choice in commander) and insane pre-empting with a Rakettenwerfer, which slows down OKW's already questionable tech path and doesn't always guarantee a kill on the car? What right do Allied players have to an oppressive light tank, infantry with either face-rolling DPS (for less than the cost of a 4 man Grenadier squad, mind you) or 7 man squads with sprint and all the utility in the world? What right do you have to complain when people demand that a cumbersome, weak ass heavy tank that comes out 30+ minutes into a game receives major re-work? In the first place unless a player is throwing it's way too easy to spam medium tanks and kill a King Tiger. It's unacceptable from a fundamental unit balance level, it's also unacceptable on an economic level.
@@samwu1836 It is vulnerable due to its low speed and maneuverability, its growl can be heard through the floor of the map. He has excellent infantry damage, range and accuracy, and is quite fat in health and armor. It's just not the tank that should break through. He provides heavy fire support for infantry and guns, and holds the front. He should not be imbalanced, if he is made faster, then they will cut his damage, accuracy or splash.
@@SavinVitaliy312 Ok, let's go through each of your points. My core argument is that the tank is bad practically, but the most appalling part is that it costs so much economically to get a tank which performs badly. The Tiger 2 is good against infantry... if its cannon actually lands the shot. For a tank this expensive, its cannon misses way too often, and fails to penetrate enemy tanks' armour. The Tiger 2's accuracy is not really that good, even with Panzer commander. Its range actually isn't that good if I'm being honest, it's quite average and is the same as the Tiger 1 as I recall. Again, the ironic thing about the Tiger 2 is that while its cannon sometimes fails to penetrate MEDIUM tanks, let alone heavy tanks, the Tiger 2's own armour gets penetrated by enemy medium tanks more often than a tank of its price should. Furthermore, because of how slow it is and how easy it is to be snared by infantry, it can't even escape medium tanks rushing it. Now, if you told me that they changed the snaring mechanic in an update to only allow the snare to be applied on the King Tiger only after it's gone down to 50% HP, maybe we could ignore any other balance suggestions and see how much of a difference such a change would make. You say this tank isn't for breakthroughs? Are you hearing yourself? What good is a 23 pop cap, 720 manpower, 270 fuel tank with a 70 munitions MG42 upgrade if it can't execute "breakthroughs". Then can you explain why this tank isn't a good 100 fuel cheaper to be more similar in price to the KV2 (because the King Tiger requires an extra 60 fuel, if you need to back tech a mechanised regiment HQ after building battlegroup and schwerer panzer HQ) which is all about holding the line and consistently wiping or trimming 50% of a squad's health in one go? The point is, the King Tiger is not only too inconsistent, it is far too expensive for its performance. Yes I have had success with this tank, but only when my opponent is clearly stupid, or being outplayed badly by myself. Other times, I've been forced to accept that I can't put my hopes in the King Tiger. It's not a "push to win button". But if a player is on the backfoot and has worked hard to hold out for long enough, I believe that they're entitled to an opportunity to make a comeback using the King Tiger (or whatever they saved up for). The issue is that the current state of the game is essentially telling players to go f*** themselves if they put their hopes on the King Tiger. Instead, we're being told to build either overpriced Panzer 4s or Panthers against comparatively cheap, super long range and regularly penetrating SU85s and Jacksons. It's really not a good proposition. Then there's the matter of the KV2 bouncing shells from my Panzer 4 which is firing at its rear armour (this obviously doesn't happen ALL the time, but it happens more often than it should)... I kid you not. If 90 fuel medium tanks with low pop cap wasn't cancer enough, you tell me...
I heard this game had factions called the pink army or was it red army ? soviets I don't remember. there was another faction called royal forces or British something. and a third OKL? PKW ? OKW? i don't know anymore. Anyway, it is wired we only see two factions and one commander each!
it was a shame that the final was a whitewash but im glad isildur won. fantastic tournament guys, obviously i can understand that people are mad about the balance but the gameplay itself has been stellar! i cant wait for the next tournament. maybe in the next tournament you can do a semi commander terminator where the players can only use the same commander once per match so they at least cant use the same commander twice per round. or maybe not being able to use the same faction twice in a row.
This was awesome, makes me feel like I dont know how to play at all, lol I've got a little, i'd say, constructive criticism, and it is that the lenght of the video gave away the result, seeing who won the first game it was obvious who would win in the end, just because of how long these victory point games take in average. Maybe adding another hour with a black screen or random gameplay just to add to the suspense would be cool.
Hey! Thanks for all the effort and such, I am trying to be a bit positive and I am hoping you do not take the criticism to heart as it is mostly directed against the players or the state of the game at the moment. I really enjoyed watching the videos, but realised at some point that it was becoming a lot of a drag, watching the same game play over and over again. I do hope there will be a bit of fresh air in the meta. Otherwise it will become really stale for a lot of people.
US tank effiency is bugged, it seems everythime you decrew to repair, the % get lower. It's the same with paratroopers reinforcing with pathfinders beacon point. Am I the only one who noticed it?
Do the tickets normally click this slow? In DoW2, they click ~once/sec. Seems like it's ~once/3sec and drags these games to unnecessary length if this is the standard in CoH2.
Would be interesting if they could choose to use any faction. Would the meta change or would it just be mech vs mech (or Ostruppen vs Ostruppen)? Nagano should've had game 2, that was a tough one.
so i didnt know that the game was free until on june 2nd at night time i was gonna download it but its morning on america meaning its june 3rd there and june 2nd here and the free coh2 has ended how unlucky i was now am interested to this game lol
Hi, I hope someone can help me. I have never played COH, I am thinking of getting COH2, but also can get COH2 all out war edition. I will be playing single player (skirmish/campaign?) only, but am I right in thinking that COH2 all out war (which has The Western Front Armies: Oberkommando West, COH 2 - The Western Front Armies: US Force). Which should I get as a single player? Does COH2 all out war edition come with the original COH2 (which I understamd is mainly single player as the Russian army)?
The problem with COH 2 is that memes are the meta. And make no mistake, meme unit battles and asymmetrical balance are not the same thing. The game ranges from boring to frustrating in it's current state.
This game has tactical depth but it’s much more fast paced than real battles of the time. Something closer to real life would be Steel Division and the Wargame series.
Panzer 4s anti inf aoe needs to be nerfed. 50% of the shots wipe 2 or more. It bounces, has good ho pool, it's too good. Sherman 76 and t34 85 are way more RNG. Axis rely too much on panzer4 to make plays.
They are cheap, they are cheap to reinforce, they have a good survivalbility, under cover they are hard to hit, and they have a faust that can snare tanks, and with T3, they can have an LMG42 that increases their damage output. They can also build bunkers. They don't have as much damage output like G43 grens, but they have way more survivalbility and are cheaper. Honestly, Grens, unless they have the 5 man VSL upgrade are kind of worthless, and they cost 40 more manpower vs. Ostruppen. That's why you see German Infantry and Ostruppen a lot in majors. Regular grens, even with the LMG42 or G43's, are easily wiped.
I don't really have one of the UK dialects. The area I am from is just north of London and this area isn't typically embellished with all the beauty of UK dialects. There are lot of dialects in the north and south, then Scottish, Welsh, Irish etc but to my knowledge it's less frequent in lower midlands. I have a joke when someone asks what my dialect is I reply: "educated" xD
You guys said nothing comes close to coh2 graphically but i guess you guys dont know about men of war serious? Different game, but both rts and graphically mow is beautiful. I'm more of a coh player, since 2006 when the first came out. So no bias here when i say mow has better graphics and detail imo
I think the play just moves too quickly, and units are rarely in one place long enough for a shot to land. With an MG you can at least force a unit to stay in place or retreat to base, you can't do that with a mortar.
CoH1 looks prettier(well to me that is) because of the colours and vibrant lighting, CoH2 has more fidelity, more natural lighting and muted colours so it doesn't look as good(again to me).
wish they would just buff up allied vehicles already. been years and years of coh where p4 spam is core of the game lol both players pretty much got multiple wipes randomly with them
@@RS-kt6is ye man, if he make noggano look like a noob...fuck no one can defeat that guy....especially when you look at game four you can see that noggano was mentally broken...he probably didnt even want to start that one
Take a shot every time you see a WC51 and a squad of ostruppen
You just killed everyone with alcohol poisoning :D
Dead
Hey guys, thanks so much for the cast! I know the players are trying to win at all cost and they are using the faction and commander best suited to it, but it's obvious there is a balance issue when you see the same 2 commanders/factions in 99% of these competitive matches.
Game has been horrifically broken for a long long time. I used to be part of a top-50 3v3 team and whenever we tryharded, we played the same commanders.
Can't say I've seen any strategy game at the top level have balance. When players get to THAT level, they find the slightest imbalance to give them favor. The thing that's great is it won't matter for 95% of the player-base. You can't have game developers flip the script for such a small percentage of the player-base.
@@dudeguybro coh1
@@dudeguybro aoe2
@@dudeguybro sc2
Osttruppen phrase "No f**ing end to this" is like summing up current tournament meta
They really should force some sort of tournament rule, where you can only use a commander once or something these mirrors are so boring..
That's why I'm sure a lot of us found that terminator tournament (players get to use commanders only once then have to use another) so more interesting to watch
I was looking forward to watching all the matches. Then they quickly became repetitive and boring.
Same. Both finals EVERY SINGLE GAME ostruppen vs mech... I was waiting for this tournament but managed to watch one game only... This meta in unwatchable.
I thought they were just the meta commanders as of now. I was waiting for them to pick other commanders like the meme goliath
and mech vs ostru is so damn boring it's unwatchable ended up watching only the first two
Mechanized and ostruppen are the only commanders in the game apparently
And there are only two factions, apparently.
Did I miss a patch note removing Soviet, British and OKW from the game or something?
Think you missed the patch notes where the choice of commander were removed and each faction only had a fixed one.
@@nehcrum what?!?. Is that tournament rules? (I haven’t played the game since 2016).
@@silentascari2180 No, it's irony. But the mere fact that you believed it, and I assume you read the comments after having watched the video, means there is a biiiit of an issue with factions, commanders and how they are balanced.
@@nehcrum I suspected after the fact that it was irony, and especially after re-installing the game and realizing. I haven’t been in the loop for quite some time, and (just from this video) regained interest after playing some old Halo Wars. Is there any other tournaments that you’d recommend which have a variety of nations / commander?
@@silentascari2180 go to playlists and go to the commander terminator series
Watching your casts got me into this game, and I recently stepped back into multiplayer, where I've done my best to emulate the good plays you bring us so often. Thanks for all you do to keep the game alive, and who knows, maybe one day I'll be up at the top end!
(In about fifteen years, when we're all on CoH 5!)
to anyone watching this: you can safely skip the first 15 minutes of every match and not miss anything. the openings are identical
Not really
Nop
I was SO excited for this tournament but alas all it was was two factions and the same two commanders . For a game with such depth this is just depressing , especially after the last tournament being the exact same thing
Every competitive game is like that though. There is a meta for a reason you know and that streches from CoH2, SC2 and even games like Warzone. And in a tournament situation no one is going to experiment.
@@asdasd5020 except that SC2 has three factions, so there are different match-ups.
@@asdasd5020 That's why they should implement that each player can ban two commanders from being used by their opponent like in some moba games for example !
@@asdasd5020 idk much about coh2 but sc2 races are pretty equally distributed and viable at pro-level. And there's a very good mix of playstyles in the pro scene.
@@asdasd5020 i mean...not really. ever watch a street fighter tournament?
What about a Pick‘n Ban tournament? Before each match players can ban e.g. 3 Commanders. Then they start picking their stuff but every item can only be picked once.
A fun thing would be to make it so that each player bans three commanders in each faction, and neither they or their opponent may pick any of the banned ones (regardless of who banned it).
yea, the AoE2 community does that very successfully in most tournaments with its civilizations. Ofter something like best of 5, pick 7 each and ban one of the opponants. also avoids mirrors etc and adds a little strategy componant regarding picking. works very well there and keeps the games exciting.
So I got yelled at by people in Tightropes comments the other day because I said the meta is super stale and this tournament has just proven it to me so I did a count.
Of the Day 2, 3 and 4 games, a total of 27 games, 10 games WERE NOT, Ostruppen vs USF Mechanized Commander. 2 Soviets (Asiamint), 4 OKW, 2 British, 2 German Infantry, 1 USF Rifle Company and 1 USF Paras. It's entirely possible that I missed a game or two but either way its very obvious that there is a problem right now.
When I get some time I'll go through it all and put it in a spreadsheet to figure out the exact from all games, including day 1 where there was a good bit of diversity. It also got worse as the Tournament went along with none of the 4 games of day 4 featuring anything different and I believe only 2 games on day 3 having anything different.
Its almost like the game is dying or something outside of the top 50 players
@@swahiliranger1022 it has more active players on steam now than almost any other time.
@@swahiliranger1022 games definitely not dying lmao
@@swahiliranger1022 I agree, just like a person can die off mentally and be suicidially depressed as opposed to physically dying with a knife through the heart, CoH2 is dying the spiritual/mental death. The issue again, has to do with very stupid choices in balancing and act of changing the balancing in such a way that we've deviated from original faction design without revisiting and possibly overhauling entire factions. I always say this, but if you take OKW as an example, they've lost way too much utility and firepower over the years without proper compensation, and players these days just keep complaining about them being 'OP' almost as if it were an ingrained habit. OKW tech structure is based on certain assumptions, for example, by going battlegroup and foregoing a light tank the original design stipulates a strong infantry unit in the Obers (who are now underperforming for their price and upkeep, plus they die super easily). Infantry have lost antitank (no other faction needs a commander specific, Panzerfussilier, unit to have AT) and when I checked old videos, it wasn't like the Volks had 2 rocket launchers, they only had the 1! So when you've got such obvious holes due to years of incompetence in complaints and balancing which fundamentally perverts a faction's core design, certain commanders like Ostruppen Doctrine for Werhmacht really fills those holes up... something which shouldn't be happening. Commanders should complement and supplement, not act as a stopper for major leaks in the hull of a ship.
@@samwu1836 what ? old volks were bonkers, making pzshrecks blobs that melted everything. Sturmpioneers get access to shreck, so i dont get your complaint about AT.Soviets only get AT rifles without doctrine. And while idk about ober, volks aren't weak
Right, the howitzers for that first game would have been a great call. The Pak 40s controlled so much of the field that Isildur's tanks where able to gain vet in relative safety while the Shermans couldn't get anything done. Building more Shermans was just a fool's errand.
You'd think the developers would be like.. ya know, maybe we need an overhaul on balancing.
Great tournament and casting as always! Good to co-cast again!
Stay more active pls!! But good to know you weren't MIA.
@Stormless what did you used to avoid losing hair. I need the tip please, urgently!
"You can count on Ostruppen! No, really, you can!"
Last time I played CoH2, there were 5 factions with like 20 doctrines for each of them, what happened to them?
P4s deflecting shots left and right, still in comments people suggest german armour is weak
i thought i was the only one who thought this, it makes no sense that the upgunned sherman penetrates almost less than the regular lol
You have no right to hurt ma prtecious panzers you allied filth. - Wehraboos who invested 3 figure $
I think its quite balanced on both sides rng gets wierd sometimes but i see nothing obnoxius
Anyone knows when the next update is ?
Getting tired of this stagnation.
Such a great game. I genuinely think it's the most fun rts game out there. Shame that it's so deep so many people don't even touch it but it definitely deserves more esports recognition
It's a deep game for deep thinkers. Perhaps many people are just not deep thinkers. There's Fortnite and Halo etc for those people. :)
I bought this game about a year ago. I was able to play it today because I just got an ASUS TUF DASH F15 laptop on the day it came out. Wow, such an old game and the graphics still look so so so nice and good! I love it so so much! I am playing the Ardennes Assault campaign and it is so realistic lifely and not robotic. Very good job Relic! I am waiting for the next COH 3 to see how stunning the gameplay and graphics are (:
Great casting guys! Any chance of an interview with the finalists? Always interesting to hear their insider perspectives on the series and tournament as a whole
"It was in this moment, when all hope had faded, that Isildur, son of the King, took up his father's sword".
AHHHHHHH
YAAHAHHHHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Congrats to the winner and great thanks to all involved!
Finally a balanced grand final, and potentially whole, tournament. No more seeing 5 allies wins vs 0 axis losses every single match-up like a year ago and up until the most recent patch. We can confidently say the better player won on the day rather than the player with most allies games on his side.
If I was looking at balancing the game in the future I would be reviewing (ostruppen and mechanized) how each side/commander operated (ie. lack of mortar and various other units being used), adjusting for desirability and then aiming to raise each other faction + commander up to the same level. Current lack of other factions and commanders is regrettable, but when each player uses identical commanders and wins with and against equal times then it does, at least on paper, indicate there is balance (between those commanders). Only player skill is having effect.
Here's hoping all commanders are so balanced in the future that players go in with their preferred commander into the tournaments rather than the ones that have the most tools/flexibility at their disposal.
Thanks for the cast ! But I really wonder were you really excited during the matches?. Because I was expecting to watch and learn from this tournament. Only thing I learnt is that: Relic reaally should balance the commanders and factions. I have never seen such a monotone World Championship. What a disappointment. What a "Meta"...
can anyone tell me how the up-gunned sherman 76mm bounces more than the regular??
Bad odds
Why did they taked comanders wc 51 and west ?
Is it rules of tournament?
Or are comanders the best imbaalnce? After last patch
World Champs 2020: Ostrtuppen vs heavy machine guns (WC51 or DShK-38)
Thanks for casting
is there championship about all unit mod, 500popcap, x3resources, 4vs4 match?
because i like big match like real and i am good at. also i have club about it
*Major & Rear-Echelon die* Your sacrifice for the God-Emperor has been noted. Alright boys, send in the next wave!
Sherman and infantry smokes are instrumental in Mechanized Company play
Another amazing matchup ! Great casting and wonderful content !
Noggano lost the first game because he was so repulsive towards the idea of building 50.cal mgs, an I haven't seen a single support fire unit, you can't beat instant supression mg42 with riflemen spam... his strategy was his downfall, gg anyway and nice commentary as usual you guys !
Man. Time to kill in coh2 is SO fast compared to 3. Infantry goes down ALL OVER the place in these games even when the players are professional level
Whole tournament with two factions and two commanders and yet there are still ppl who say this game is balanced :D
this is intense, while im over here turtling on normal campaign
How to start playing in Tournaments?
2nd. match, what a plot twist.... Shows that you should always watch till end, even when it looks pretty obvious who would win...
33:55 awkward silence
lol
I actually enjoyed that
$10,000 Wow that is some 1st prize!
still a great Game and what a fight between this 2 awesome Players!
Can we please get some balance changes for OKW? I skimmed through almost the entire tournament and almost no one played OKW. Especially in the later rounds where big money is at stake. Its so obvious, OKW is in a very bad spot. Last patch nerfed the Tiger, the one thing that OKW relied on and now OKW is gone.
OKW has had very poor commander variety and especially unit variety. The next balance patch needs to have big changes for them! And make Königstiger worth building for once. Its such a long tech route but that tank is way too slow and clunky to use. Needs better mobility as it was always outshined by a regular Tiger.
But the Königstiger is better than the normal tiger, it must also have its drawbacks. Sorry for my English, I'm not a native speaker.
@@SavinVitaliy312 Hardly. It's always frustrating because every time I see a valid point like this being raised, there's always some inevitably making a comment like yours. No wonder the game stays unbalanced while people still scratch their head wondering why balancing isn't happening. Every time a good observation or idea is shared it's just shot down. Look the King Tiger is not better on a practical level. In every metric it is underperforming. Its cost to performance is shockingly bad, the fact that many tanks can bounce the shells fired from a tank that costs as much and takes a long as the KT to come out is not only absurd, it's unfair to the OKW player.
Let's be real people, to any Allied MOFO reading my comment, put your hand on your heart and tell me what right you have to drive an oppressive 0 IQ flamer M3 scout car at the start of the game while OKW units have 0 effective ways to counter it without using 200 IQ mines, PzFus snares (meaning the OKW player has no choice in commander) and insane pre-empting with a Rakettenwerfer, which slows down OKW's already questionable tech path and doesn't always guarantee a kill on the car? What right do Allied players have to an oppressive light tank, infantry with either face-rolling DPS (for less than the cost of a 4 man Grenadier squad, mind you) or 7 man squads with sprint and all the utility in the world? What right do you have to complain when people demand that a cumbersome, weak ass heavy tank that comes out 30+ minutes into a game receives major re-work? In the first place unless a player is throwing it's way too easy to spam medium tanks and kill a King Tiger. It's unacceptable from a fundamental unit balance level, it's also unacceptable on an economic level.
@@samwu1836 It is vulnerable due to its low speed and maneuverability, its growl can be heard through the floor of the map. He has excellent infantry damage, range and accuracy, and is quite fat in health and armor. It's just not the tank that should break through. He provides heavy fire support for infantry and guns, and holds the front. He should not be imbalanced, if he is made faster, then they will cut his damage, accuracy or splash.
@@SavinVitaliy312 Ok, let's go through each of your points. My core argument is that the tank is bad practically, but the most appalling part is that it costs so much economically to get a tank which performs badly. The Tiger 2 is good against infantry... if its cannon actually lands the shot. For a tank this expensive, its cannon misses way too often, and fails to penetrate enemy tanks' armour. The Tiger 2's accuracy is not really that good, even with Panzer commander. Its range actually isn't that good if I'm being honest, it's quite average and is the same as the Tiger 1 as I recall. Again, the ironic thing about the Tiger 2 is that while its cannon sometimes fails to penetrate MEDIUM tanks, let alone heavy tanks, the Tiger 2's own armour gets penetrated by enemy medium tanks more often than a tank of its price should. Furthermore, because of how slow it is and how easy it is to be snared by infantry, it can't even escape medium tanks rushing it. Now, if you told me that they changed the snaring mechanic in an update to only allow the snare to be applied on the King Tiger only after it's gone down to 50% HP, maybe we could ignore any other balance suggestions and see how much of a difference such a change would make. You say this tank isn't for breakthroughs? Are you hearing yourself? What good is a 23 pop cap, 720 manpower, 270 fuel tank with a 70 munitions MG42 upgrade if it can't execute "breakthroughs". Then can you explain why this tank isn't a good 100 fuel cheaper to be more similar in price to the KV2 (because the King Tiger requires an extra 60 fuel, if you need to back tech a mechanised regiment HQ after building battlegroup and schwerer panzer HQ) which is all about holding the line and consistently wiping or trimming 50% of a squad's health in one go? The point is, the King Tiger is not only too inconsistent, it is far too expensive for its performance. Yes I have had success with this tank, but only when my opponent is clearly stupid, or being outplayed badly by myself. Other times, I've been forced to accept that I can't put my hopes in the King Tiger. It's not a "push to win button". But if a player is on the backfoot and has worked hard to hold out for long enough, I believe that they're entitled to an opportunity to make a comeback using the King Tiger (or whatever they saved up for). The issue is that the current state of the game is essentially telling players to go f*** themselves if they put their hopes on the King Tiger. Instead, we're being told to build either overpriced Panzer 4s or Panthers against comparatively cheap, super long range and regularly penetrating SU85s and Jacksons. It's really not a good proposition. Then there's the matter of the KV2 bouncing shells from my Panzer 4 which is firing at its rear armour (this obviously doesn't happen ALL the time, but it happens more often than it should)... I kid you not. If 90 fuel medium tanks with low pop cap wasn't cancer enough, you tell me...
@@samwu1836 so what are your thoughts on is 2
The panther is only 44 tons according to google
1:19:39 ou-ou-our panzer...
I heard this game had factions called the pink army or was it red army ? soviets I don't remember.
there was another faction called royal forces or British something.
and a third OKL? PKW ? OKW? i don't know anymore.
Anyway, it is wired we only see two factions and one commander each!
hmm... if i remember correctly it was the Pink Army and the PKW i believe. but But i haven't seen either in far too long to be sure XD
Name of game??ios or pc ?
it was a shame that the final was a whitewash but im glad isildur won. fantastic tournament guys, obviously i can understand that people are mad about the balance but the gameplay itself has been stellar! i cant wait for the next tournament. maybe in the next tournament you can do a semi commander terminator where the players can only use the same commander once per match so they at least cant use the same commander twice per round. or maybe not being able to use the same faction twice in a row.
I saw people complaining about repetitive games but woah! Even the presenter jokes, grenades and wipes are identical.
This was awesome, makes me feel like I dont know how to play at all, lol
I've got a little, i'd say, constructive criticism, and it is that the lenght of the video gave away the result, seeing who won the first game it was obvious who would win in the end, just because of how long these victory point games take in average. Maybe adding another hour with a black screen or random gameplay just to add to the suspense would be cool.
Playing OKW , i always spam MG bunkers all over the map , and combine with panzergrenadier : all around anti everything stronghold
1:20:00 Noggano going full "Ruki Veer" in that round...so many wipes...
Basically, who plays Ostruppen gets the point. Thats frustrating to watch sadly. Great cast as always btw.
So sick of seeing the same goddamn commanders and build orders for what feels like the 20th game in a row...
Hey! Thanks for all the effort and such, I am trying to be a bit positive and I am hoping you do not take the criticism to heart as it is mostly directed against the players or the state of the game at the moment. I really enjoyed watching the videos, but realised at some point that it was becoming a lot of a drag, watching the same game play over and over again. I do hope there will be a bit of fresh air in the meta.
Otherwise it will become really stale for a lot of people.
Yeah, if they're going to have the same commanders, at least switch the maps up every game....
US tank effiency is bugged, it seems everythime you decrew to repair, the % get lower. It's the same with paratroopers reinforcing with pathfinders beacon point. Am I the only one who noticed it?
I dont understand what u are saying. Never had this issue and im top 200 and have thounsands of hours in this game.
Do the tickets normally click this slow? In DoW2, they click ~once/sec. Seems like it's ~once/3sec and drags these games to unnecessary length if this is the standard in CoH2.
If the tournament organizers allowed only two commanders to be used, then there is really no balance in the game
Would be interesting if they could choose to use any faction. Would the meta change or would it just be mech vs mech (or Ostruppen vs Ostruppen)? Nagano should've had game 2, that was a tough one.
so i didnt know that the game was free until on june 2nd at night time i was gonna download it but its morning on america meaning its june 3rd there and june 2nd here and the free coh2 has ended how unlucky i was now am interested to this game lol
well game.
btw, should be change the overall commander & faction every 2 match for more fair
Are u using any game filter or something, the colours look beautifull...
I wish they would've included Japanese faction
Hi, I hope someone can help me. I have never played COH, I am thinking of getting COH2, but also can get COH2 all out war edition. I will be playing single player (skirmish/campaign?) only, but am I right in thinking that COH2 all out war (which has The Western Front Armies: Oberkommando West, COH 2 - The Western Front Armies: US Force). Which should I get as a single player? Does COH2 all out war edition come with the original COH2 (which I understamd is mainly single player as the Russian army)?
The problem with COH 2 is that memes are the meta. And make no mistake, meme unit battles and asymmetrical balance are not the same thing. The game ranges from boring to frustrating in it's current state.
Is the collertor or master edition game purchase on steam worth it dose it give all content for online like new units and fractions?????
Why do I feel like I keep hearing Stonemountain lol am I crazy
You guys give some great commentary!
Finally someone else who thinks the 222 looks like Brum
3:0 classic coh tourney
is this halo wars 2?
Yes
Tasty Wipes should be a name of a band 2:14
2:00:00 - He can read my mind and my future!
”-This is heavy cover and this, this stops it here.”
Eeeeh… Ok. Thanks for the comperhensive explanation of the game mechanics. 🙄
ANyone knows how close it is to how real battles inn this time looked?
This game has tactical depth but it’s much more fast paced than real battles of the time. Something closer to real life would be Steel Division and the Wargame series.
HOW CAN I JOIN?
awesome community
Fantastic casting and games guys, btw is there a 2V2 tournament in schedule?
I thing i am only one show these videos
the 23rd was my birthday, i consider grateful :D
I don't understand why this is the meta now seems okw and sovits in the right hands can rekt this mech and ostrupp tactics .. am I missing something
i dont play the game but this looks fun whatever this here is
Excessive vehicle retreats by red.
CoH 2 is a great game but it’s the kind of game where nobody would pick the Soviets in a competitive match because they’re nerfed like hell.
Now they're picked every time. So?
Panzer 4s anti inf aoe needs to be nerfed. 50% of the shots wipe 2 or more. It bounces, has good ho pool, it's too good. Sherman 76 and t34 85 are way more RNG. Axis rely too much on panzer4 to make plays.
Oh god, this game felt like a case of domestic abuse.
Im a newbie team player and I wanna know why is Ostruppen so meta?
They are cheap, they are cheap to reinforce, they have a good survivalbility, under cover they are hard to hit, and they have a faust that can snare tanks, and with T3, they can have an LMG42 that increases their damage output. They can also build bunkers.
They don't have as much damage output like G43 grens, but they have way more survivalbility and are cheaper. Honestly, Grens, unless they have the 5 man VSL upgrade are kind of worthless, and they cost 40 more manpower vs. Ostruppen.
That's why you see German Infantry and Ostruppen a lot in majors. Regular grens, even with the LMG42 or G43's, are easily wiped.
I wonder how many views this tourney would get if it were conducted in CoH instead :)
which dialect is stormless speaking?
I don't really have one of the UK dialects. The area I am from is just north of London and this area isn't typically embellished with all the beauty of UK dialects. There are lot of dialects in the north and south, then Scottish, Welsh, Irish etc but to my knowledge it's less frequent in lower midlands.
I have a joke when someone asks what my dialect is I reply: "educated" xD
@@StormlessUK ah thank you for the answer :)
You guys said nothing comes close to coh2 graphically but i guess you guys dont know about men of war serious? Different game, but both rts and graphically mow is beautiful. I'm more of a coh player, since 2006 when the first came out. So no bias here when i say mow has better graphics and detail imo
How do i avoid sync errors
Who knocked out Luvnest
Rifleman without BARs in mid game...
Why does nobody use mortars in competetive CoH? Are they too squishy/bad?
Its because its a 1v1 mortars are still good in 1v1s but usually pros would use them in team games
I think the play just moves too quickly, and units are rarely in one place long enough for a shot to land. With an MG you can at least force a unit to stay in place or retreat to base, you can't do that with a mortar.
@@awordabout...3061 oh ok, i see thank you.. i really love mortars and use them alot, but obv im a low tier player hehe :D
I have never experience online but I've fought 100+ battles on ai
Yea I usually play AI because I get tilted in pvp matches. I still play some pvp though.
@@christophermikiewicz7083 Oh nice:)
CoH1 looks prettier(well to me that is) because of the colours and vibrant lighting, CoH2 has more fidelity, more natural lighting and muted colours so it doesn't look as good(again to me).
Why doesn’t coh2 have a pick/ban system with forcing players to use all 5 factions ??
wish they would just buff up allied vehicles already. been years and years of coh where p4 spam is core of the game lol both players pretty much got multiple wipes randomly with them
isildur needs to be nerfed, this guy is broken beyond repair
seriously, 4-0 in a final... wth
@@RS-kt6is ye man, if he make noggano look like a noob...fuck no one can defeat that guy....especially when you look at game four you can see that noggano was mentally broken...he probably didnt even want to start that one
@@RS-kt6is thx for the spoiler...
Bruh they afford a 10k prize but not a 10 men team to update the game?
with 10k you can not realy fund a 5 man team + an office + equipment
@@J-IFWBR I mean, those are not all their money, that's sure.
How much adderall was Isildur on? Cause he was on a roll…
Mortars would be nice
Ae ffs why did i have to wait so long
2:23:07 ALL THE SMALL THINGS