I understood that as "history is on her side" and Alicent standing on the cliff with the sunset as "the sun is setting on her". :) Great cinematography.
Rhaenyra doesn't know if she can trust the dragonseeds or how well they'll do in a fight. She doesn't want to send them against Vhaegar. So she needs traditional victories. Torching enemy cities and strongholds is the quickest and most effective way to break the enemy's spirit. This is how medieval warfare tends to operate. Sure dragons are important but men and armies do matter as well.
The guy Daemon saw in the tree in his vision was just Brynden Rivers, the former 3 Eyed Raven who trained Bran in GoT, just younger (not yet born during HotD though). He's a Targaryen bastard as well but they never really mentioned it in GoT. You guys seemed a little 🤔 when he briefly appeared so just thought I'd mention it 😀
The book is not told from the point of view of the major players like Rhaenyra, Alicent, or Daemon. It's told from the point of view of a maester who got his information from 2nd and 3rd hand accounts from unreliable witnesses prone to bias and hyperbole. It's written like a propagandistic history textbook rather then an interpersonal drama. What the writers and showrunners of HOTD are doing is taking that story and turning it into a real character drama. And that requires reworking some of the archetypical characters in the books.
Yes, but the showrunners have also ignored information provided by GRRM and just made stuff up that contradicts what he has written. For example, removing the character Nettles and replacing her with Rhaena as Sheepstealer's rider. Having Rhaena find Sheepstealer at the Vale of Arryn is impossible, since GRRM has stated that his dragons are territorial and would not travel as far north from Dragonstone as the Vale. It also removes the important plot point that an ordinary, non-Targaryen like Nettles is able to claim a dragon. The belief that one needs to have "the blood of the dragon" or be one of their bastard offspring is nonsense.
@@Rocket1377 It makes sense though from the showrunners perspective to cut Nettles. Daemon already had 2 daughters. He doesn’t need a third alleged surrogate daughter. They can use Hugh to give the small folk dragon rider POV. It’s never stated in F&B that Nettles had no Targaryen ancestry. She just doesn’t have any known Targaryen ancestry.
There was a triarchy commander like this in the books named Racallio Ryndoon-they’ve merged him with Lohar who is barely described apart from being a triarchy Admiral. Ryndoon often wore a dress, had multiple wives who he preferred pregnant, but clearly was a man who died his hair and beard blue. It’s not mentioned if Ryndoon played much of a role in the Dance-he led the fleet that attacked the Stepstones between Daemon and Corlys conquering them and the Dance and he survived into the reign that follows the Dance.
@41:53: she is crying! So glad you noticed, very few reactors did. It is very intriguing. I know many viewers were annoyed with the Harrenhal plot. I loved it… Gayle Rankin did a fantastic job as Alys.
She's a perfect pick for the role. She has those intense eyes, prominent brow and a perched nose - a proper owl. :) She also has this witchy, Gaelic accent to her voice, with high cackling notes - but done so subtly. Simply 10/10 casting.
what i hope they explore more is the aegon v rhaenyra, i always wish there was more intereactions with them when they were young but in this episode in the early aegon & larys scene, aegon calls himself "aegon the realms delight" which is Rhaenyra's title in the book & show, and idk i find that very interesting
He’s jealous it’s that simple. Growing up I imagine alicent was absent and busy ruling/being pregnant, and by the time he can likely remember his father only paid attention to his older sister, not remembering that Visarys was also absent a lot for her early on too was just how he was.
@10:45: we saw Tyrion wearing a hand necklace on his armor during episode 2.9 in GoT (you can catch a good glimpse in the scene where Pod is adjusting Tyrion’s armor just before battle).
about the thing you said at the start about the succession crisis with jace (i actually watch the intro) its not necessarily about jace being the clear heir its about there being powerful contenders. what jace is scared for is essentially the same as the blackfyre rebellions which were a big thing for several generations of targaryen kings, what happened here is that basically the kings younger legitimatized bastard brother was cooler so there was war even tho it was clear he was not the heir
Jon Snow had the rightful claim to the throne. Dany took Kings landing & the throne by burning it with her dragon. History is replete with uspers to the thrones.
The Triarchy are from Essos. So a character like Admiral Lohar is essentially immune to the negative consequences of aiding a misogynistic regime in Westeros. The suffering of women in Westeros does not concern Lohar.
Rhaenyra was not on a high horse. She called Alicent out for being a massive hypocrite. And yes, Alicent DID set this in motion. Rhaenyra is far from innocent, but Alicents self righteousness and paranoia caused her to make choices and be blind to the real consequences.
All that may be true but she's definitely still on a high horse regardless. I mean Alicent clearly came with her tail tucked between her legs and she still chose to attach her. Especially when rhaenyra spends all this time looking how to avoid war and here it comes served on a silver platter and she throws personal jabs at the personal bringing it
@@GJBedrin Rhaenyra has extended the olive branch so many times and Alicent LIED in her holy temple when she denied she made a mistake regarding Viserys' prophecy ...she was right to drag her
I think Alicent's point was that even without her Rhaenyra would've been challenged - and we know this from season one already. Otto already had a plan.
I think deamon always thought viserys chose rhaenyra to spurn him but seeing the song of ice and fire makes him believe that his brother knew what he was doing when he named her his heir
I really liked this season, like Suzy said, sometimes you have to suffer through the set up! As for wanting more action or points of view, HBO did make them cut the season from 10 to 8 episodes due to budget constraints and the writers strike is why it took two years to make, hopefully they put some more money into next season so we actually get some awesome battles 😬😬😬
No, they don't. Rhaenyra doesn't either. She committed a crime by having bastard children that she claims are next in line to the throne, which is punishable by death. The only reason she is still alive is because Viserys protected her and turned a blind eye to it. Jacaerys is a bastard and has no more right to rule than any of the dragonseeds. Only true born male Targaryens are able to sit on the throne. Like it or not, Rhaenyra should have been executed as soon as her first bastard child was born, and Aegon II is, in fact, the rightful heir to the throne, regardless of what Viserys decreed or who he appointed as his successor. He did not have the power to change the laws that the Great Council set in place.
Jace is wiser beyond his years. Him being a dragonrider is what convinced the world that he isn't a bastard. Now that other Targaryen bastards can have dragons this argument doesn't hold any water anymore...Now it is easy for an older Targaryen bastard with a dragon to come and claim that he is the rightful heir cause he is the son of an older King. I say easily cause the most important thing someone must know about Targaryen history is that for them power is more important than legitimacy. Most of the Targaryen kings didn't become kings cause they were rightful heirs but because they could...And Jace is a bastard child with a small dragon...Do you think that the argument of "I am the rightful heir" would stop an ambitious dragonseed with a larger more powerful dragon to challenge him? When you have the power of a dragon none can enforce any law to you, cause you can simply burn the status quo that founded that law...
The writing is so awful in this finale, Alicent betraying her kids for Rhaenyra? The woman that wanted Aemond tortured right after he lost an eye, starved an entire city which almost killed Helaena? Her husband decapitated her grandson? This is a complete fanfic, why adapt the story in the first place if you are going to change this much? Just write your own Condal.
Aegon is a murderer and physically broken beyond repair. Aemond just burned thousands and through his own mother off his Council. And now he's trying to put Helaena in danger. Keep in mind that due to the Greens coming into power, Alicent's jealousy of Rhaenyra has subsided and without that, she doesn't really dislike her. It's completely understandable why she's write off Aegon and Aemond as lost causes. Rhaenyra wanted Aemond tortured because he commit treason by making accusations that put Rhaenyra's boys lives in danger. Alicent knows this. She didn't lunge at Rhaenyra with her knife because of Aemond. She did it because of her jealousy towards Rhaenyra at the time. She believed that she had done her duty and done everything right yet she has to suffer while Rhaenyra does not have conform to all the norms expected of women in her time and does not get punished for it. That's what "where is duty where is sacrifice" comes from. Alicent also understands that the Greens and she herself initiated this conflict. Sure the Blacks blockade King's Landing but they do it because the Greens control it. The Greens could surrender or flee anytime they wanted and trade would reopen to the city. Helaena's near death experience was a result of the conflict Alicent and the Greens started. Alicent never said she liked or trusted Daemon. She trusts Rhaenyra and knows that Rhaenyra would never kill one of her grandchildren. Fire and Blood is barely a story. It's an unreliable historical record told from a biased source about one dimensional characters who are just generally awful and have no complexity or nuance. They needed to be changed in order for the show to be good.
@@datguy3581 Aegon is still her son who never harmed Alicent and only wanted her love, he even tried to escape to not be king. Now he's a dragonless cripple who can barely stand and can't further his line, he's not a threat to her seven dragons. Alicent should have all the reasons to hate Rhaenyra. I'll repeat them with more detail: Rhaenyra wanted Aemond tortured right after he lost his eye. Only a psycho would defend Rhaenyra here and say because 'he committed treason' by making comments about her kids, it doesn't matter, HE WAS A KID, only a person as cruel as Joffrey or Ramsey defends torturing kids, whether what he said was wrong or not. If someone wanted to torture my kid, I'd lounge at them with a knife too. This is far bigger reason to hate Rhaenyra than just jealousy, writers reduced it to that because they're incompetent. The Greens controlling the city, doesn't and will never justify starving a million people for it. She has a war crime on her hand, one that Alicent should hate her for if not the poor writing. Daemon murdered her grandson, and he's married to Rhaenyra. A realistic well written character would never trust Rhaenyra by mere association. Now her grandson's butcher is going to be king consort? + For the reasons mentioned above, she has plenty of reasons to hate Rhaenyra. Since you defend torturing kids and starving millions, I'd like you to also remember that she murdered an nnocent guards to pass him off as Laenor, and killed about 20+ lowborns for a dragon (the deal is off the second they try to run away). 'The book is unreliable' doesn't justify writing this fanfic in its stead, also George hinted to which sources are unreliable like Mushroom's but the show consistently adapts his propaganda to humiliate or villainize Aegon, like the children fighting pits and him losing his genitals are clearly lies in the book but they adapted then anyways (And not his account on Rhaenyra, suddenly they remember he's unreliable). Also the chronology of the war is off and entire characters don't exist like Aegon's other son, Maelor. They don't care about what likely happened, only writing and fanfic between Rhaenyra and Alicent.
@@datguy3581 "Aegon is a murderer" pff like 90% of the characters in this show. When do ppl realize there is no "good side" in this show. They are all despicable and corrupt. We love Daemon for example even thou he is not better than Criston Cole, murdering ppl left and right. Rhaenys for example killed hundreds of innocent ppl just to show of and yet we love her. I like them too but they are not better. "Team Green or Team Black" doesnt matter. Im on team "dragons" tbh
The reason it all feels only setup. Especially the last 3 episodes is that they had 2 more episodes in mind but hbo didn't give them the budget they capped it at 8 episodes & the writers didn't want to fuck up the episode 8 just show some of the war. So blame HBO.
I think the next season won`t come until 2026 because they had planned A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms for 2025 and they only want to broadcast one series a year. And if both series alternate on a yearly basis, then there will be more time for filming.
You just don’t understand. Not all Targaryens have an equal claim on the throne, and no one else has a claim equal to Jacaerys’ since he inherits the claim through his mother, and there is absolutely no dispute over who his mother is. The inheritance claims of the seeds are anything but certain. The only claim they have that is equal to or superior to Jace’s is not based on inheritance or succession, but purely on power and physical might, like a barbarian warlord.
If its "book canon" then George is a moron. Even the Celts whom the Romans often referred to as "barbarians" had Gavelkind succession where their lands passed to their children. You have to go back even further to get to the animalistic sort of succession where the strongest rules. Or in Westerosi terms, the horse fucking Dothraki. - Steejo
No, it isn't, it's simply what the tv version of Jaecerys believes. He's wrong. In the book, he is 100% in favour of using dragonseeds, and it's actually Rhaenyra who doesn't trust them. The laws of Westeros states that the ruler of Westeros must be one of Aegon's true born heirs, and a bastard would never be allowed to sit on the throne. Rhaenyra's children were all born of a man she wasn't married to, so none of them should be able to ascend the throne. In fact, she and her children should have all been executed, as a royal having bastard children is crime against the crown, punishable by death. Viserys protected his daughter and grandchildren and tried to prevent this "rumour" from spreading by ordering that anyone who spoke it would have their tongues removed. He knew that if their legitimacy was contested, it could mean war. Putting a bastard like Jaecerys on the throne is just as illegal as having one of the dragonseeds claiming to be the heir.
@@Rocket1377 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Riiiiight, put to death for crimes against the crown when the crown has, for two generations, recognized Rhaenyra’s children as the true heirs to the throne. You’re talking nonsense.
The showrunners have also said that the tv show version of character is a woman who identifies as a man (played by a transgender actor). In the book he is a man, but also a transvestite.
I mean, if they take out only Aemond. Most of the lords in the small council were in on the plot to usurp already. Their armies kind of have to be taken out at this point.
Unfortunately the powers that be at HBO cut the budget and due to the writers strike the writers could not make revisions to the script so instead of the 10 episodes they were to have, we got 8.
Having read fire and blood it awsome seeing Hotd turn into GoT season 8, i loved the scene when Helana a well known dragon rider and loveing mother say that she hates flying and vision quest guide the man who CUT OFF THE HEAD OF HER INFANT. And i loved how a 3rd of the episode was a comedy skitt with Tyland Lanister and a weird youtube cameo. I allso loved when they took Alicents characterization behind the barn and shot it in the back of the head.
From my perspective, I didn't like Jace's behavior towards the new dragonriders. It was very hyprocitical to come after bastards. But one thing we've learned in the past season is that even if you were chosen to succeed by the king, that legitimacy doesn't easily guarantee that you will ascend the throne, just like how Rhaenyra is being contested right now. The only reason the greens had the audacity to take the throne was because they had the largest dragon. I think Jace has every reason to worry about his own succession considering that Vermithor and Silverwing are much bigger and used to battle. Targaryens have always known that dragons are the reason they have power and Ulf is starting to show his teeth. 😬
@@penoyer79 Ya. Jace is a bastard but even with that knowledge, Corlys, Viserys and Laenor recognize him as a Velaryon-Targaryen and he carries that name. He does have a form of legitimacy in my opinion. I think it's a huge risk to give away such power. It maybe necessary now to take back the throne, but it can also result in future problems. But, I can't be all against it because Addam seems like a loyal one.
jace was right to act like that. ulf was disrespectful to the queen and jace. ulf can’t just act however he wants. and jace ends up being right in the end.
@@penoyer79 I imagine that the people are more concerned about their living conditions and are trying to get through starvation. But, I don't thing that the entirety of the realm would have one opinion. Whoever is next in line will always be criticized for something, Jace being a bastard, the way they criticize Rhaenyra for being a female, the way they criticize Aegon for not being named heir and for being a usurper, self-interested people will find a reason to support or go against a specific person for thier own benefit. And there was a time the council thought that a female ruler is unheard of. But we see now that the people don't mind Rhaenyra being queen, it's just that they don't have that much power over the situation. It was the greens who mainly went against Rhaenyra because it's beneficial for them to uphold the traditions of having a male ruler. As for Jace, everyone knows he's a bastard just by looking at his skin and his hair. But the people don't care. People who had a problem with it were mainly the greens and Vaemond, those who had something to gain by opposing them... and of course, self-righteous people.
@@nomaannajeeb2873 Of course he's a kid. Most of the characters in HOTD were forced to grow up at an early age to carry the burden of their families and the weight of the crown. Despite his insecurities, he's still learning and trying. And despite how he behaved and said horrible things about bastards, we can't deny the fact that his concerns, (if expressed in a more unbiased and calm tone), is valid.
For people who think that Jace's thing is reasonable.... Those new dragonrider bastards is not even acknowledged by their highborn parent or the crown. They don't even have bastard names (waters, rivers, snow, sand, etc). So for jace to think that he's the same as these bastards is just plain stupid. He's the oldest son of a named heir, even though he's "secretly" bastard... and if somehow down the line someone manage to prove that he's a bastard. When his mom finally taking the crown... She can easily legitimize him and named him her heir again. So his distress on his status is just unreasonable and we're supposed to see that as audience. I know the showrunners tried to add some quarrel between rhaenyra and her son, but i wish they stick with jace fueling rhaenyra's doubt on these bastard being loyal to her instead, because letting a smallfolk without a name claiming a dragon is really huge risk.
@@dewantoroo Jace is wiser beyond his years. Him being a dragonrider is what convinced the world that he isn't a bastard. Now that other Targaryen bastards can have dragons this argument doesn't hold any water anymore...Now it is easy for an older Targaryen bastard with a dragon to come and claim that he is the rightful heir cause he is the son of an older King. I say easily cause the most important thing someone must know about Targaryen history is that for them power is more important than legitimacy. Most of the Targaryen kings didn't become kings cause they were rightful heirs but because they could...And Jace is a bastard child with a small dragon...Do you think that the argument of "I am the rightful heir" would stop an ambitious dragonseed with a larger more powerful dragon to challenge him? When you have the power of a dragon none can enforce any law to you, cause you can simply burn the status quo that founded that law...
I actually really loved season 2 and thought this was a great episode (though i wish HBO didn't cut the last two episodes) but I'm so excited for season 3
@@penoyer79 From what they said HBO for some reason cut the last two episodes just a month or so before filming so even tho they werent fully affected by the strikers they said they still couldnt adjust the script anymore so they had to end with episode 8 that was supposed to be 8th episode out of 10eps season
Well Rhaenyra said she would send dragons to Lannisport and Oldtown. Sending dragons to population centers will get people killed. Rhaenyra isn't intentionally targeting small folk. But they will die as collateral.
Rhaenerya wasn't being cold...if Alicent listened to her a few weeks ago this could have been avoided. But Rhae lost a son and Alicent a grandson. Aemond tried to kill Aegon. Aemond had a hissy fit when he saw Rhae have more Dragons. So he burnt a town to the ground just cause they were black supporters. If Rhae was to just take the deal without Aegons head then not only will both sides be unhappy but so will the smallfolk and the other Lords and ladies who lost things during the war. Same thing if team green was to win, they would need to take Rhaes head otherwise people will be unhappy. Regardless someone has to loose their head. Either she or Aegon can live but not both. If Alicent was to back out much earlier tho no heads would need to be taken. Too much was lost for either side. And Rhae said she wouldn't just be taking his head, but it would have to be done publicly with witnesses. Same thing if roles were reversed. It's why Rhae started crying after Alicent agreed to her terms,she herself doesn't want to do this. But has literally no other options same with why Alicent agreed. Remember Rhae is a mom first so she knows what she's asking for isn't something small. Plus Aegon is still her brother, her father's son, her kin. But she has no other options.
Allicent did set this in motion when Viseeys died. All of this mow is because of her . Yes otto earlier set stuff in motion but once allicent didn't understand and assumed what viserys meant, it was over. . It allicents fault
The camera shot at the end that shows how eventually Rhaenyra will just be a scroll on the shelf in history is such a cool perspective.
I understood that as "history is on her side" and Alicent standing on the cliff with the sunset as "the sun is setting on her". :) Great cinematography.
Interesting. Good perspective. @@laurelindon
Time is the one enemy even a dragon can't defeat.
@@fluffylittlebear Well fallout (show) seems to have defeated that.
Chadley (Crispy Cole) is so self-reflective because he watched your last video and feels guilty about cutting your plant 😢
I love how Steej pronounces Otto as "Uh-Oh"
T's don't exist XD - Steejo
You should listen again to the wind, when Daemon was talking to the guy at the tree. The wind whispered " Traitor"
We actually saw it with the subtitles when editing! - Steejo
The harsh truth is that Rhaenyra spoke facts in the end. There is no true peace as long as the opposition exists and she can't be seen as weak.
And that is exactly what Otto told Alicent would happen when Aegon was still a baby.
The dragon flying over/with the Hightower army is Tessarion The Blue Queen.
Is that Daerons dragon? 🤔
@@simonspoke yes
I like how the pirate defended tyland. Hes not just thin, hes tall 😂
Rhaenyra doesn't know if she can trust the dragonseeds or how well they'll do in a fight. She doesn't want to send them against Vhaegar. So she needs traditional victories. Torching enemy cities and strongholds is the quickest and most effective way to break the enemy's spirit. This is how medieval warfare tends to operate. Sure dragons are important but men and armies do matter as well.
I dont think the episode sucked, i actually thought it was very good. It just wasnt a FINALE. It wouldve been a great episode 8 out of 10
The guy Daemon saw in the tree in his vision was just Brynden Rivers, the former 3 Eyed Raven who trained Bran in GoT, just younger (not yet born during HotD though). He's a Targaryen bastard as well but they never really mentioned it in GoT. You guys seemed a little 🤔 when he briefly appeared so just thought I'd mention it 😀
The book is not told from the point of view of the major players like Rhaenyra, Alicent, or Daemon. It's told from the point of view of a maester who got his information from 2nd and 3rd hand accounts from unreliable witnesses prone to bias and hyperbole. It's written like a propagandistic history textbook rather then an interpersonal drama. What the writers and showrunners of HOTD are doing is taking that story and turning it into a real character drama. And that requires reworking some of the archetypical characters in the books.
Yes, but the showrunners have also ignored information provided by GRRM and just made stuff up that contradicts what he has written. For example, removing the character Nettles and replacing her with Rhaena as Sheepstealer's rider. Having Rhaena find Sheepstealer at the Vale of Arryn is impossible, since GRRM has stated that his dragons are territorial and would not travel as far north from Dragonstone as the Vale. It also removes the important plot point that an ordinary, non-Targaryen like Nettles is able to claim a dragon. The belief that one needs to have "the blood of the dragon" or be one of their bastard offspring is nonsense.
@@Rocket1377 It makes sense though from the showrunners perspective to cut Nettles. Daemon already had 2 daughters. He doesn’t need a third alleged surrogate daughter. They can use Hugh to give the small folk dragon rider POV. It’s never stated in F&B that Nettles had no Targaryen ancestry. She just doesn’t have any known Targaryen ancestry.
😑Ulf is the obnoxious drunken uncle at Thanksgiving, eating free food and bragging about his truck.
I guarantee he has stories about being abducted by aliens.
There was a triarchy commander like this in the books named Racallio Ryndoon-they’ve merged him with Lohar who is barely described apart from being a triarchy Admiral. Ryndoon often wore a dress, had multiple wives who he preferred pregnant, but clearly was a man who died his hair and beard blue. It’s not mentioned if Ryndoon played much of a role in the Dance-he led the fleet that attacked the Stepstones between Daemon and Corlys conquering them and the Dance and he survived into the reign that follows the Dance.
@41:53: she is crying! So glad you noticed, very few reactors did. It is very intriguing. I know many viewers were annoyed with the Harrenhal plot. I loved it… Gayle Rankin did a fantastic job as Alys.
She is most likely scared of the one she knows is coming to Harenhall and that she finally got a friend now
She's a perfect pick for the role. She has those intense eyes, prominent brow and a perched nose - a proper owl. :) She also has this witchy, Gaelic accent to her voice, with high cackling notes - but done so subtly. Simply 10/10 casting.
Aegon is horrible person yes but he is the most compelling character in the show. Looking forward for his arc in season 3
what i hope they explore more is the aegon v rhaenyra, i always wish there was more intereactions with them when they were young but in this episode in the early aegon & larys scene, aegon calls himself "aegon the realms delight" which is Rhaenyra's title in the book & show, and idk i find that very interesting
He’s jealous it’s that simple. Growing up I imagine alicent was absent and busy ruling/being pregnant, and by the time he can likely remember his father only paid attention to his older sister, not remembering that Visarys was also absent a lot for her early on too was just how he was.
@10:45: we saw Tyrion wearing a hand necklace on his armor during episode 2.9 in GoT (you can catch a good glimpse in the scene where Pod is adjusting Tyrion’s armor just before battle).
He also strangles Shae with the Hand's chain. "Hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm..."
about the thing you said at the start about the succession crisis with jace (i actually watch the intro) its not necessarily about jace being the clear heir its about there being powerful contenders. what jace is scared for is essentially the same as the blackfyre rebellions which were a big thing for several generations of targaryen kings, what happened here is that basically the kings younger legitimatized bastard brother was cooler so there was war even tho it was clear he was not the heir
But you're still talking about brothers, not random illegitimate cousins who don't even bear the same surname. - Steejo
yes noone woild support them against jace, its more that they have very big dragons that are a possible threat @@SuzySteejo
Jon Snow had the rightful claim to the throne. Dany took Kings landing & the throne by burning it with her dragon. History is replete with uspers to the thrones.
27:40 I *felt* that! As someone who has been unhappy and done it and someone who had unhappy people do it to my on my old YT channel facts queen 🙌💯
The Triarchy are from Essos. So a character like Admiral Lohar is essentially immune to the negative consequences of aiding a misogynistic regime in Westeros. The suffering of women in Westeros does not concern Lohar.
Rhaenyra was not on a high horse. She called Alicent out for being a massive hypocrite. And yes, Alicent DID set this in motion. Rhaenyra is far from innocent, but Alicents self righteousness and paranoia caused her to make choices and be blind to the real consequences.
All that may be true but she's definitely still on a high horse regardless. I mean Alicent clearly came with her tail tucked between her legs and she still chose to attach her. Especially when rhaenyra spends all this time looking how to avoid war and here it comes served on a silver platter and she throws personal jabs at the personal bringing it
@@GJBedrin Rhaenyra has extended the olive branch so many times and Alicent LIED in her holy temple when she denied she made a mistake regarding Viserys' prophecy ...she was right to drag her
I think Alicent's point was that even without her Rhaenyra would've been challenged - and we know this from season one already. Otto already had a plan.
Otto is the real issue. Alicent has always been a pawn.
@@GJBedrinThey still love each other.. otherwise they wouldn’t be making such jabs & be hurt. Neither want the war.
I think deamon always thought viserys chose rhaenyra to spurn him but seeing the song of ice and fire makes him believe that his brother knew what he was doing when he named her his heir
I really liked this season, like Suzy said, sometimes you have to suffer through the set up!
As for wanting more action or points of view, HBO did make them cut the season from 10 to 8 episodes due to budget constraints and the writers strike is why it took two years to make, hopefully they put some more money into next season so we actually get some awesome battles 😬😬😬
You have to remember the world in westoros is different. Any family of a Targaryen has a claim to
Succession 😅
No, they don't. Rhaenyra doesn't either. She committed a crime by having bastard children that she claims are next in line to the throne, which is punishable by death. The only reason she is still alive is because Viserys protected her and turned a blind eye to it. Jacaerys is a bastard and has no more right to rule than any of the dragonseeds. Only true born male Targaryens are able to sit on the throne. Like it or not, Rhaenyra should have been executed as soon as her first bastard child was born, and Aegon II is, in fact, the rightful heir to the throne, regardless of what Viserys decreed or who he appointed as his successor. He did not have the power to change the laws that the Great Council set in place.
Jace is wiser beyond his years. Him being a dragonrider is what convinced the world that he isn't a
bastard. Now that other Targaryen bastards can have dragons this argument doesn't hold any water anymore...Now it is easy for an older Targaryen bastard with a dragon to come and claim that he is the rightful heir cause he is the son of an older King. I say easily cause the most important thing someone must know about Targaryen history is that for them power is more important than legitimacy. Most of the Targaryen kings didn't become kings cause they were rightful heirs but because they could...And Jace is a bastard child with a small dragon...Do you think that the argument of "I am the rightful heir" would stop an ambitious dragonseed with a larger more powerful dragon to challenge him? When you have the power of a dragon none can enforce any law to you, cause you can simply burn the status quo that founded that law...
I mean, we have alicent´s children themselves as the best example
The writing is so awful in this finale, Alicent betraying her kids for Rhaenyra? The woman that wanted Aemond tortured right after he lost an eye, starved an entire city which almost killed Helaena? Her husband decapitated her grandson? This is a complete fanfic, why adapt the story in the first place if you are going to change this much? Just write your own Condal.
Aegon is a murderer and physically broken beyond repair. Aemond just burned thousands and through his own mother off his Council. And now he's trying to put Helaena in danger. Keep in mind that due to the Greens coming into power, Alicent's jealousy of Rhaenyra has subsided and without that, she doesn't really dislike her. It's completely understandable why she's write off Aegon and Aemond as lost causes.
Rhaenyra wanted Aemond tortured because he commit treason by making accusations that put Rhaenyra's boys lives in danger. Alicent knows this. She didn't lunge at Rhaenyra with her knife because of Aemond. She did it because of her jealousy towards Rhaenyra at the time. She believed that she had done her duty and done everything right yet she has to suffer while Rhaenyra does not have conform to all the norms expected of women in her time and does not get punished for it. That's what "where is duty where is sacrifice" comes from.
Alicent also understands that the Greens and she herself initiated this conflict. Sure the Blacks blockade King's Landing but they do it because the Greens control it. The Greens could surrender or flee anytime they wanted and trade would reopen to the city. Helaena's near death experience was a result of the conflict Alicent and the Greens started.
Alicent never said she liked or trusted Daemon. She trusts Rhaenyra and knows that Rhaenyra would never kill one of her grandchildren. Fire and Blood is barely a story. It's an unreliable historical record told from a biased source about one dimensional characters who are just generally awful and have no complexity or nuance. They needed to be changed in order for the show to be good.
@@datguy3581 Aegon is still her son who never harmed Alicent and only wanted her love, he even tried to escape to not be king. Now he's a dragonless cripple who can barely stand and can't further his line, he's not a threat to her seven dragons.
Alicent should have all the reasons to hate Rhaenyra. I'll repeat them with more detail:
Rhaenyra wanted Aemond tortured right after he lost his eye. Only a psycho would defend Rhaenyra here and say because 'he committed treason' by making comments about her kids, it doesn't matter, HE WAS A KID, only a person as cruel as Joffrey or Ramsey defends torturing kids, whether what he said was wrong or not. If someone wanted to torture my kid, I'd lounge at them with a knife too. This is far bigger reason to hate Rhaenyra than just jealousy, writers reduced it to that because they're incompetent.
The Greens controlling the city, doesn't and will never justify starving a million people for it. She has a war crime on her hand, one that Alicent should hate her for if not the poor writing.
Daemon murdered her grandson, and he's married to Rhaenyra. A realistic well written character would never trust Rhaenyra by mere association. Now her grandson's butcher is going to be king consort? + For the reasons mentioned above, she has plenty of reasons to hate Rhaenyra.
Since you defend torturing kids and starving millions, I'd like you to also remember that she murdered an nnocent guards to pass him off as Laenor, and killed about 20+ lowborns for a dragon (the deal is off the second they try to run away).
'The book is unreliable' doesn't justify writing this fanfic in its stead, also George hinted to which sources are unreliable like Mushroom's but the show consistently adapts his propaganda to humiliate or villainize Aegon, like the children fighting pits and him losing his genitals are clearly lies in the book but they adapted then anyways (And not his account on Rhaenyra, suddenly they remember he's unreliable). Also the chronology of the war is off and entire characters don't exist like Aegon's other son, Maelor.
They don't care about what likely happened, only writing and fanfic between Rhaenyra and Alicent.
@@datguy3581 "Aegon is a murderer" pff like 90% of the characters in this show. When do ppl realize there is no "good side" in this show.
They are all despicable and corrupt. We love Daemon for example even thou he is not better than Criston Cole, murdering ppl left and right. Rhaenys for example killed hundreds of innocent ppl just to show of and yet we love her. I like them too but they are not better. "Team Green or Team Black" doesnt matter. Im on team "dragons" tbh
The reason it all feels only setup. Especially the last 3 episodes is that they had 2 more episodes in mind but hbo didn't give them the budget they capped it at 8 episodes & the writers didn't want to fuck up the episode 8 just show some of the war. So blame HBO.
Mysaria tells the story of how she got the scar right before she and Rhaenyra kissed.
"Ulf is funny guy'
Please, wait!! 😂
17:43 im the opposite, im like "man i feel so bad for him then i remember he r worded so its what u get"
Episode 9 is gonna be hot fire.
43:57 hearing Daenerys theme music gives me goosebumps everytime
i cant help but wonder about what Steejo was about to say before the scene with Alicent at the end lol 😂😋🤪🤔🤭
When tyrion was acting Hand, during the battle of the Blackwater he had hand chain ln his armor
I think the next season won`t come until 2026 because they had planned A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms for 2025 and they only want to broadcast one series a year. And if both series alternate on a yearly basis, then there will be more time for filming.
They’re right, those dragon seeds have the same claim to the throne because of their Targaryen blood. It’s even book canon.
You just don’t understand. Not all Targaryens have an equal claim on the throne, and no one else has a claim equal to Jacaerys’ since he inherits the claim through his mother, and there is absolutely no dispute over who his mother is. The inheritance claims of the seeds are anything but certain. The only claim they have that is equal to or superior to Jace’s is not based on inheritance or succession, but purely on power and physical might, like a barbarian warlord.
If its "book canon" then George is a moron. Even the Celts whom the Romans often referred to as "barbarians" had Gavelkind succession where their lands passed to their children. You have to go back even further to get to the animalistic sort of succession where the strongest rules. Or in Westerosi terms, the horse fucking Dothraki. - Steejo
No, it isn't, it's simply what the tv version of Jaecerys believes. He's wrong. In the book, he is 100% in favour of using dragonseeds, and it's actually Rhaenyra who doesn't trust them. The laws of Westeros states that the ruler of Westeros must be one of Aegon's true born heirs, and a bastard would never be allowed to sit on the throne.
Rhaenyra's children were all born of a man she wasn't married to, so none of them should be able to ascend the throne. In fact, she and her children should have all been executed, as a royal having bastard children is crime against the crown, punishable by death. Viserys protected his daughter and grandchildren and tried to prevent this "rumour" from spreading by ordering that anyone who spoke it would have their tongues removed. He knew that if their legitimacy was contested, it could mean war. Putting a bastard like Jaecerys on the throne is just as illegal as having one of the dragonseeds claiming to be the heir.
@@Rocket1377 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Riiiiight, put to death for crimes against the crown when the crown has, for two generations, recognized Rhaenyra’s children as the true heirs to the throne. You’re talking nonsense.
53:20 This mans performance omg
You guys need to do like a dinner and a drinks movie night. Like a reaction where you guys actually have a glass of wine or something 😂
WILL SOMEBODY GET ULF MORE LITTLE BIRDS? Jesus he asked 4 times.
Haleana looked absolutely gorgeous in this episode
Funny how you all jump straight to "her" when the triarchy specifically said its a man.....GO figure these days
The showrunners have also said that the tv show version of character is a woman who identifies as a man (played by a transgender actor). In the book he is a man, but also a transvestite.
@@Rocket1377 I just threw up..
I mean, if they take out only Aemond. Most of the lords in the small council were in on the plot to usurp already. Their armies kind of have to be taken out at this point.
Unfortunately the powers that be at HBO cut the budget and due to the writers strike the writers could not make revisions to the script so instead of the 10 episodes they were to have, we got 8.
Having read fire and blood it awsome seeing Hotd turn into GoT season 8, i loved the scene when Helana a well known dragon rider and loveing mother say that she hates flying and vision quest guide the man who CUT OFF THE HEAD OF HER INFANT.
And i loved how a 3rd of the episode was a comedy skitt with Tyland Lanister and a weird youtube cameo.
I allso loved when they took Alicents characterization behind the barn and shot it in the back of the head.
She should've fell and then end. After in the next season it will reveal that she got caught by a dragon lol
From my perspective, I didn't like Jace's behavior towards the new dragonriders. It was very hyprocitical to come after bastards. But one thing we've learned in the past season is that even if you were chosen to succeed by the king, that legitimacy doesn't easily guarantee that you will ascend the throne, just like how Rhaenyra is being contested right now. The only reason the greens had the audacity to take the throne was because they had the largest dragon. I think Jace has every reason to worry about his own succession considering that Vermithor and Silverwing are much bigger and used to battle. Targaryens have always known that dragons are the reason they have power and Ulf is starting to show his teeth. 😬
@@penoyer79 Ya. Jace is a bastard but even with that knowledge, Corlys, Viserys and Laenor recognize him as a Velaryon-Targaryen and he carries that name. He does have a form of legitimacy in my opinion. I think it's a huge risk to give away such power. It maybe necessary now to take back the throne, but it can also result in future problems. But, I can't be all against it because Addam seems like a loyal one.
jace was right to act like that. ulf was disrespectful to the queen and jace. ulf can’t just act however he wants. and jace ends up being right in the end.
@@penoyer79it’s crazy how these people don’t use their brains to realise that this is exactly his point. He’s just insecure and a child.
@@penoyer79 I imagine that the people are more concerned about their living conditions and are trying to get through starvation. But, I don't thing that the entirety of the realm would have one opinion. Whoever is next in line will always be criticized for something, Jace being a bastard, the way they criticize Rhaenyra for being a female, the way they criticize Aegon for not being named heir and for being a usurper, self-interested people will find a reason to support or go against a specific person for thier own benefit. And there was a time the council thought that a female ruler is unheard of. But we see now that the people don't mind Rhaenyra being queen, it's just that they don't have that much power over the situation. It was the greens who mainly went against Rhaenyra because it's beneficial for them to uphold the traditions of having a male ruler. As for Jace, everyone knows he's a bastard just by looking at his skin and his hair. But the people don't care. People who had a problem with it were mainly the greens and Vaemond, those who had something to gain by opposing them... and of course, self-righteous people.
@@nomaannajeeb2873 Of course he's a kid. Most of the characters in HOTD were forced to grow up at an early age to carry the burden of their families and the weight of the crown. Despite his insecurities, he's still learning and trying. And despite how he behaved and said horrible things about bastards, we can't deny the fact that his concerns, (if expressed in a more unbiased and calm tone), is valid.
Thumbnail is a huge spoiler for those who haven't seen the finale yet.
It really, really isn't though. - Steejo
For people who think that Jace's thing is reasonable.... Those new dragonrider bastards is not even acknowledged by their highborn parent or the crown. They don't even have bastard names (waters, rivers, snow, sand, etc). So for jace to think that he's the same as these bastards is just plain stupid. He's the oldest son of a named heir, even though he's "secretly" bastard... and if somehow down the line someone manage to prove that he's a bastard. When his mom finally taking the crown... She can easily legitimize him and named him her heir again. So his distress on his status is just unreasonable and we're supposed to see that as audience. I know the showrunners tried to add some quarrel between rhaenyra and her son, but i wish they stick with jace fueling rhaenyra's doubt on these bastard being loyal to her instead, because letting a smallfolk without a name claiming a dragon is really huge risk.
@@dewantoroo Jace is wiser beyond his years. Him being a dragonrider is what convinced the world that he isn't a
bastard. Now that other Targaryen bastards can have dragons this argument doesn't hold any water anymore...Now it is easy for an older Targaryen bastard with a dragon to come and claim that he is the rightful heir cause he is the son of an older King. I say easily cause the most important thing someone must know about Targaryen history is that for them power is more important than legitimacy. Most of the Targaryen kings didn't become kings cause they were rightful heirs but because they could...And Jace is a bastard child with a small dragon...Do you think that the argument of "I am the rightful heir" would stop an ambitious dragonseed with a larger more powerful dragon to challenge him? When you have the power of a dragon none can enforce any law to you, cause you can simply burn the status quo that founded that law...
He is just a child/teenager in the end what do you expect?
❤ Suzy the eye makeup is 🔥
😊
I actually really loved season 2 and thought this was a great episode (though i wish HBO didn't cut the last two episodes) but I'm so excited for season 3
Season 2 got cut short due to the writers’ strike, but overall did you like it and are you looking forward to season 3?
@@penoyer79 ....the writers are part of the Writer's Guild of Ameria and officially couldn't do reshoots due to the strike. This was in the news.
Yes. Looking forward
@@penoyer79 From what they said HBO for some reason cut the last two episodes just a month or so before filming so even tho they werent fully affected by the strikers they said they still couldnt adjust the script anymore so they had to end with episode 8 that was supposed to be 8th episode out of 10eps season
Deamon one of the white walkers 💀
20:17 alot changes when you can't get it up right😭🤣
Some folks are afraid of change, because it may interfere with what they're used to, which works for them.
they still could have made 2 more episodes there is content for that and left in the clif hanger rhaeneryra sitting on the thrones thats it ..
we must not forget that ulf and hugh will betray Rhaenyra in season 3 like in the books
not one time did rhaenerya say she was kiling innocents suzy 🙄
Well Rhaenyra said she would send dragons to Lannisport and Oldtown. Sending dragons to population centers will get people killed. Rhaenyra isn't intentionally targeting small folk. But they will die as collateral.
Indiscriminately torching a city sounds a lot like killing innocents... - Steejo
@@SuzySteejo she didn’t say that at all lol
@@clarkjamelle in the end she literally told mysaria that the innocents were the ones who were gonna suffer...
Rhaenerya wasn't being cold...if Alicent listened to her a few weeks ago this could have been avoided. But Rhae lost a son and Alicent a grandson. Aemond tried to kill Aegon. Aemond had a hissy fit when he saw Rhae have more Dragons. So he burnt a town to the ground just cause they were black supporters. If Rhae was to just take the deal without Aegons head then not only will both sides be unhappy but so will the smallfolk and the other Lords and ladies who lost things during the war. Same thing if team green was to win, they would need to take Rhaes head otherwise people will be unhappy. Regardless someone has to loose their head. Either she or Aegon can live but not both. If Alicent was to back out much earlier tho no heads would need to be taken. Too much was lost for either side. And Rhae said she wouldn't just be taking his head, but it would have to be done publicly with witnesses. Same thing if roles were reversed. It's why Rhae started crying after Alicent agreed to her terms,she herself doesn't want to do this. But has literally no other options same with why Alicent agreed. Remember Rhae is a mom first so she knows what she's asking for isn't something small. Plus Aegon is still her brother, her father's son, her kin. But she has no other options.
Def don't need to see GoT to watch this. Especially since some characters spoil HotD
You should watch the boys and Gen v
Allicent did set this in motion when Viseeys died. All of this mow is because of her
. Yes otto earlier set stuff in motion but once allicent didn't understand and assumed what viserys meant, it was over.
. It allicents fault
damn, im first heree!!
Daemon was War Criminal BAE the whole time