the problem with kpop lines | a bts videoessay
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- #bts #btsarmy
in this video i talk about the famous kpop lines and how they apply (or not) to bts: the vocal line, the rap line, the dance line, and the visual line, as well as the leader, center, main, lead, and sub positions.
0:00 introduction
1:10 leader
2:03 center
2:39 lines intro
2:54 vocal line
4:52 rap line
5:56 dance line
7:10 visual line
8:38 conclusion
hi guys!! this is NOT an explanation video of the lines, this is my opinion on why i don't like them so much. like i said, the lines are a bit of a mess because there are many disagreements on who is the lead, main, and sub, as seen in this comment section and in the many introduction videos to bts, they all say something different
@@jimin585 honey the idea of the video is that those positions don't matter.
@@jimin585 1. i know you deleted your comment saying "jimin is main dancer correct your video" but i wanted to respond to you that i won't. because while you ask me that, there's another person asking me to correct someone else's position, proving my point that there's no agreement on these titles.
2. i would appreciate if you stopped spamming the comment section and instead try to understand the point of this video, which is, these "positions" shouldn't matter and we shouldn't take them as seriously as you. also, your "why is it always *bts member*" and "they are solos now anyways so this video is irrelevant" sound like solo behavior.
3. stop accusing me of "hiding your links of the accurate sources" because i'm not. believe me i would love to mute you from the channel, but i don't do that to anyone and prefer leaving you on blast.
@@boracitymagazine You don't have to listen to random people on UA-cam, but will you at least consider listening to BTS themselves. Jimin has been the main dancer (along with J-Hope) since the beginning. I suggest you watch official content so you can learn more about the members.
@@jimin585 how can you say jimin don't get any position..if you listen a bts song..you can easily found out that either jimin or jk got theost lines...
I totally agree with you about this!
For me, the role of "lead" being assigned to J-Hope has more to do with his ability as a dance teacher to ensure that all of the members know the choreography and are on point at all times. It's more like the "dance captain" role in musical theater. Jimin also takes that on with individuals, but J-Hope has the eye and the authority to really be the leader of the group where dance is concerned.
Jhope and Jimin are the main dancers. Jhope is the dance leader which is quite different from lead dancer.
Jhope used to be the lead dancer. He said in Festa 2020 or 2021 that JK was the most important to him at the moment. Around that time JK became the lead dancer.
The boys are all handsome and are visuals. RM mentioned in a video that V was part of the visual line. Also I later found out that JK was a visual. Cue me wondering why the rest aren't in the visual line..*clears throat* Daddy Nam, Hoseok beautiful clavicles and pretty hands and my fave ending fairy along with Jin, Jiminssi who you can't take your eyes off of, then there's my other ult bias along with Hobi, Suga- the guy who lyrics touches my heart, Mr handsome esp on a piano- I dare you to take your eyes off Suga when he plays- he's the most beautiful. Again Suga, this guy with the most proposals of them all from army.
For BTS, I believe someone is in charge of certain things. For example, Hoseok who is the second leader of BTS as he's leader of performance. These guys are literally choosing and putting out their own titles so instead of saying we are ranking them. It's rather what they put out.
Hoseok as a singer rather than a rapper became subvocalist as he learned to rap. Also again, BTS doesn't just want to be put in a box like the one who speaks English, etc etc. I think RM has fun/get annoyed with the members as they were pretty much speaking some forms of English in AHL and then just went completely silent on English in interviews.
Let's not forget, Jin was singing epiphany guide in English, V asked someone to translate and sang the B&G in English.
In the end, they kept getting more and more confident.
I can see how people would think in such a way as this video suggests.
Everyone of them took singing and dance lessons and has mentioned teachers on occasion. For Jimin and Hoseok, those two attended dance academies and took parts in competitions. Jimin along with Hoseok pick up the dances faster and help teach the other members. Hoseok of course picks it up the fastest and is a great teacher. I believe this is why even tho Jimin was the main and he was the lead at the time, he was still the dance leader.
I can't defend those who think someone else is lesser or more just because of a title as everyone of them is talented. If they have decided to give those titles and those responsibilities, then there's a reason for that as well.
Whether it's JM saying he doesn't want to rap, or JK becoming a subrapper, it's about what this person can do. How can we tell them apart as they are 7? Then once you get to know them, you realize oh well, these guys are all talented. And if you think your bias may be on the loosing end, they might not be in terms of title once you get to know the group more. Solos won't try to do this, and army would. Making a whole video about it won't change that either. Cuz for example V is part of the dance and vocal line. He's part of the visual, has no main title. People of course love his dance, his quirkiness, his acting. He's recognized for visuals and vocals, and his cams get even more views than the main dancers.
So.... if we think titles will hold them back, we might be too much in our own heads maybe and not hearing what they are saying as it applies to their growth.
It's really a waste if WWH golden ratio face isn't proudly displayed as perfect. They have it, they flaunt it within the confines that they have and in the best way without coming off as weird or icky, and that is part of the charm of BTS and in some ways KPop, not like I listen to other KPop artist on a regular as I only have BTS playlist.
I rather use the term “dance leader” instead of “lead dancer” in this case.
@@KiahRenamae that's fair.
@@KiahRenamae lead dancer and dance leader are different titles
@@saturdayandrain I know. That’s why I prefer one over the other. Knowing who the dance leader is is more important to me than knowing who the lead/main dancer is.
“Let’s celebrate all their sides as artists” Well said.
about joon's leader role, i also want to add that an important part of that is him being the bridge between the company and the group
Ye
Fuck the ‘visual line’ concept, I’m English and have always had an issue with it as I don’t think I’ve ever known this done before in western groups, it feels so mean. Also Jimin is known to be someone who pulls in a lot of new fans but not a visual - And our boy Jin isn’t out here practicing on his own in hotel rooms just to not be considered a dancer, same for all the other members. The only titles that made sense to me are ones that define a specific role like Leader/Vocalist/Rapper, after that there’s no need to be more specific. I agree we should drop all other titles.
I agree with u totally
True. Leader, Rap and vocal indeed is the most acceptable
Totally agree ranking the boys to who is a visual is ridiculous. I personally think Jimin and Suga are the 'most handsome' but all of them are extremely good looking and it's a matter of preference.
@@winteryama true its matter of preference Tae and jimin are one of the most beautiful men I've ever seen for me Jimin has that charming beautiful face he's pretty cute handsome sexy all. I find myself scrolling Jimin photos on my ig I really love his visuals. For tae I love his fashion style the clothes he wear make him look boss and he's too attractive to me I'm also in love with their hair specially Jimins. Haha I bias them two as well but all bts are beautiful.
preach. I hate the idea of a visual line, it's not only insulting to the rest of the group who isn't part of that line but also to the ones being part of that line considering some groups out there recruit trainees for that line only, disregarding their talent as performers as if the only thing they're good at is being pretty and you often see them not getting enough lines in songs.
I absolutely agree with this. The concept of 'visual line' has always seemed the most uncomfortable and insulting to me. Each member has brought fame and fans to BTS at different times. RM pulled me into the fandom, I was shocked to know he wasn't a visual when I learned about what visual is supposed to be
Same. I don’t think jimin is even considered a visual- and he’s regarded as one of the most beautiful ppl on the planet & creates iconic moment after iconic moment haha. And V is an incredible dancer but wasn’t originally officially even part of the dance line. Hobi is an epic rapper, Jin’s an epic singer- yet neither are “main” or “lead”…. Haha it’s all so weird.
There’s a lot about the world of kpop that I find so bizarre. I remember laughing and rolling my eyes when I even learned about the concept of lines. Haha
totally agree .
I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments being expressed in this video. I'm also a little sad that the entire point of the video appears to be lost on some.
They aren't watching the damn video
True. Some people just don't understand period.
The visual lines in groups is like say “he/she is the beauty standard. The rest of you are ugly” I really think it makes the others feel self conscious
jihope are both main dancers and hoseok is the dance leader. members themselves said this many times
totally agree. The problem in the Kpop community is that they only focus on one category of each idol, using them not as members of a band, but more as "parts" that complete a song of a group. In addition, many record companies focus mainly on the beauty of idols (for example Jin was chosen for the auditorium only because he is beautiful). But as you said, what matters is not their charm, but their talent because that's what drives them to become famous. We Army follow BTS for their music and cultural impact, not because they are beautiful.
for me all the members of BTS are all-round artists, both in rep, in singing and in dance
Good job, as usual your videos are very interesting👏👏👏
UPDATE: for "Jin was taken for the auditorium only because he is beautiful" I did not mean to say that he has no talent, but only that he and bighit were not aware of it. He has a fantastic voice and bighit was right to choose him
That's a bad rumor that Jin was chosen ONLY because he was beautiful. He auditioned for singing like everyone else and clearly he had a hidden musical talent that he didn't even know about and they with experience could see it aside from his beauty.
With my experience in singing I can tell you that his ability has improved yes, but his talent was always there.
@@cinthia2287 yes I know. I did not tend to say before that he did not know how to sing, but that the bighit was aware of his talent and there fore chose him for his charm. But I don't mean he's not talented, he's great and has a wonderful voice.
@Ishita Verma I think the point is he was invited to AUDITION because he's beautiful, and he hadn't considered being a singer before that. But at the audition he would have been tested for singing and dancing, and they would have been able to see that he had a good voice and a lot of potential. Then during his training period he would have been continually evaluated to see if he had the right kind of talent and skills to debut in BTS, and clearly he did. So while he always tells the story of being scouted for Big Hit auditions while getting off a bus, it's not true at all that he made it into BTS simply because of his looks.
Excellent POV & analysis. I agree 200%. True Army would disregard these catagories. They are BTS & 7 Kings to us and nothing else matters. Besides, they decide among themselves.
Jhope is a dance leader of BTS. Jhope and Jimin are both main dancers.
The "dance leader" isn't an official position, while Jhope does help in choreographies a lot but there's no real dancer leader position in BTS. Namjoon is the leader and that is official. And all the other members also helps and give their inputs, for example like JK, who records before at times and provides vocal guides but he's not the Vocal leader.
@@stargazing2628 Jk records and does vocal guides because he is the MAIN VOCALIST. There is nothing like vocal leader but there is something like Main vocalist and that is Jungkook.
Giving him his dues as the Main Vocalist of BTS takes nothing away from whoever is your bias.
Some of y'all need to learn how not to dim other's light for your bias to shine.
BTS members has said it several times that Jungkookie is their Main vocalist,their team has also captioned him as one in their official videos.
@@BabyDoll-qo7ol I'm saying the same thing. JK does that because he's the main vocalist. And Jhope helps with choreographies because he's the main dancer. Jimin does all the acrobatics because he's the main dancer. I was talking about the "dance leader" position, and how that is not a position but more like a form of appreciation.
@@stargazing2628your comparasion is wrong because BTS have said many times that Jhope is their dance leader, while no one says Jungkook is their vocal leader. Listen to BTS lol
I completely agree with you! Nothing makes me happier than seeing each and every member of BTS shine in every way! We stan ALL 7 of our members!
Visual line? The first one i ever could recognize was RM (partly because he can speak English), but Jimin.... i thought he was a BEAUTIFUL human being when i first saw BTS in Blood Sweat Tears. I honestly thought that BTS didn't look like Kpop standards... and now, they ARE the standards. Not to put any other groups down (because i really can't distinguish them) but because BTS has gone to a level of kindness, artistry, purity, talent, and humor, that i dont think ANYONE can achieve (actually, Jackson Wang is up there) and I'm purely in love with BTS. I just LOVE BTS. They really did save me... i never knew my life was dull and voring, until i found them, and now i have JOY. this is why they are the best.
I hope this channel becomes more popular
I 100% agree with this video. I never used “lead” “main” or “sub” when describing the members. It’s too complicated and nobody can agree on what it actually means. A vocalist is a vocalist and a rapper is a rapper.. and sometimes even that isn’t always true because sometimes vocalist can rap and rappers can sing. Why do we need to further categorize that?? As for visuals, idk about you but I’m ot7 biased and all seven members wreck me constantly with their visuals. I cannot tell you who is “more visually pleasing” because they are all gorgeous human beings to me. Also I had a coworker(a local) ask me once about visuals in kpop and she thought that it made them the “main person” in the group so it’s also unnecessarily confusing to use that term and it’s insulting to the other members who are not labeled as such. The only title I think we should use is the leader and rap/vocal line. Everything else is unnecessary.
Another excellent video with excellent points and observations. You are on a role.
Boys grew out of these limiting kpop labels yeaaaaars ago. I fully agree with you
The visual line idea is crazy because their all so hot and all have dozens of fan girls.
I agreed with so many points. When I got into BTS, I definitely watched those intro videos and it helped me understand a little bit about each member and what they’re known for, but that was almost 7 years ago and they have all grown so much as artists and people since then. All 7 of them have gained so much artistic knowledge and skill that they’re all multi-talented in their own right and should be recognized as such. I understand why K-pop companies, and other global music labels may use “lines” or “positions” to help promote their group when they’re about to debut, but in 2024, it makes more sense from a business and music standpoint to promote their musical skills above all. Also, the idols debuting are getting younger and younger these days so calling one of them a “main visual” is kinda icky lmao
I don’t really have an issue with the concept of lines (aside from the visual) as long as it’s not a strict and limiting main - lead - sub categorization. I don’t think BTS do it like that anyway.
As I’ve understood it, for example, both J-Hope and Jimin are main dancers and that makes sense because they both have a strong dance background and can take on a significant role in guiding the other members in learning choreography and fine tuning performances. The main and lead vocalists are the ones who have the most lines and support the others with backing vocals, harmonization etc.
Ultimately, I think these lines and roles are more a tool for BTS in their work when they’re creating songs and planning performances and one that they can deviate from when the art calls for it rather than they are a strict role for fans.
agree
I understand and agree with the point of this video, it's not rocket science, but I have an issue with the lack of accuracy. If you are going to dispute the validity of the "line" thing and the ranking thing in K-pop, I'm with it, but what they were assigned is not what you are assigning them here. In itself this is a pretty good reason for scrapping the whole system.
I agree 'visual line' is the most ridiculous category.
Since your other videos are heavily researched, I thought you may have done so for this too but I see a lot of general perceptions here. Many of the other commentators mentioned the importance of positions in vocal and dance line. I'd like to add a bit about the visual since it's the one most riddled with misconceptions. The visual definitely has an element of attractiveness to it but that is not all. The concept behind the visual is that it was supposed to be someone adept at camera appearance and had acting ability and general appeal (this is not always just about looks. personality matters too). The reason is that the visual of the group is supposed to be the person who gets sent to do cfs and dramas by the group as additional reach for the group. They are the ones most likely to do TV shows and other projects. That is why Jin is the official visual of the group. And that doesn't mean the other members won't go on TV shows or act. It means that he was chosen for the group exclusively to fill that role. The fact that he sings beautifully is a plus for the Tannies. The fact that all 7 are good at what they do is the reason why these arguments about lines are even taking place. That wasn't and isn't always the case for the industry they come from.
Con ellos no importa quien fue nombrado principal en nada, todos han ido desarrollando su potencial al máximo y han incursionado en cosas que de inicio no eran su fuerte. Ahí esta Jin, lo reclutaron por guapo y termino siendo el Silver Voice de Corea, o Tae que ni siquiera estaba en la dance line pero baila hermoso. La voz de Jimin es increíble pero desde el principio JK tenia una voz mas estable y entrenada, por eso le dieron el rol de cantante principal. Sin embargo a estas alturas y con sus trabajos en solitario, no debería importarnos con que papel empezaron en BTS, han recorrido un largo camino y están consolidados cada uno como artistas excepcionales.
I think they broke all molds so long ago,they are super versatil in whatever they choose to do, so who cares those lines.
I agree with the visual line topic. Well said. 👏👏👏
the leader in BTS is also the representative and bridge between the group and the label/company, as well as keeping the group on track. not just the public spokesperson and helping to resolve conflict. just wanted to add on!
I agree with the rapping and vocal line thing . But i would like to point out about rap line people often tend to compare their skills while we may notice that each of them shine seperately in different songs. In one song i am a fan of RM's skills in another Yoongi's and in hobi's . They have their different and unique style we can't compare them. Get it people they are all unique and very different in terms of their style and everyone's skills are damn good same goes with vocal line .
I agree that leader is absolutely necessary for any group. You need a point person to handle various situations and be the person to answer the complicated questions in interviews.
I think that groups should retain “main” roles at least for vocal, rap, and dance (I’ll get onto visual in a second). Adding “lead” often makes it feel like a ranking system, but main is just who objectively has the most skill or most attractive voice to audiences and the remainder of the members appear equal. Main rapper is hard to actually pinpoint in BTS because RM and Suga are of equal skill and background and their other roles of writing and producing don’t add anything extra to their repertoire to distinguish them. I guess that just happened because BTS was formed around RM (BTS used to be very different too, but RM is the only one left from the original lineup) that’s also why Namjoon is leader without being the center or the oldest. I think for any group the role of lead vocal/rapper/dancer should just become interchangeable with main. Actually I think it boils down to BTS has now been around for so long that while their roles may have been accurate at debut, they all built different skills that could merge them into other roles as well or make them compete with the official main vocal/rapper/dancer so now it’s difficult to define them that way.
Onto dance for a moment, similar to main rapper being extremely close between RM and Suga, main dancer is even harder to distinguish between J-Hope and Jimin. After all they come from completely opposite backgrounds. Jimin was a ballet dancer with some experience in hip hop technique but ballet was his focus. J-Hope focused exclusively in hip hop dance. Both of them are at high skills for their respective styles so it’s unfair to label one of them as main dancer and once again carry that feeling of main/lead being a ranking.
This is already long but buckle up for me to absolutely rip apart Visual. The problem with main visual is when the main visual does not have any other main or lead roles or doesn’t get many lines in the line distribution. This happened with Jin, it happened with Sowon in Gfriend, and it often happens with Blackpink Jisoo as well. It happens a lot with idols that originally joined their companies as actors and have little to no background in vocals much less dance or rap. When I explain the visual role to K-pop newcomers often with these idols as examples, their response is ALWAYS “Oh so they’re just there to be pretty?” It’s extremely discrediting to the hard work that these “visuals” put in because they’re often the target of hate comments because their skills can’t match those of their other members. Jin has put in so much work, and it’s true that back in the day he used to stand out because he would struggle with choreography you know he’s tall and lanky and a little clumsy so it was really hard for him. But now, yeah he’s still leagues away from J-Hope and Jimin but he’s finally on par with the rest of the group after 10 years and I’m actually gonna cry I’ve been so proud of him. But his role is still just Main visual with standard vocal label and it’s still a cycle with the comments and everything working against him and other idols in that position that they’re just there to be a pretty face. Visual is the most damaging position to any idol even if they are the prettiest, to haters and non-kpoppers it becomes the only reason why they’re in the group. And that’s why Visual is the role I want to see burn.
Actually, J-Hope and Jimin are both main dancers, and JK is a lead. So, the comparison should really be between JK as lead and J-Hope and Jimin as mains. I don't know if maybe there was a noticeable difference between the 3 when they debuted, but there doesn't seem to be one now.
I consider the dance line as the ones whom add emotions to their dance in a unique way or whom appear in front of the dance formation most however I've never thought of the dance line to be something serious or worth fighting for in a group where everyone adds their selves into the dance routine.
For the visual line I personally consider it useless as a concept but worth mentioning that V, jungkook and jin are the ones who might have unique facial features that makes their emotions during a song appear to be strong.
I completely agree with you when it comes to visuals. I love your videos and how thoughtful and interesting you always make them. Keep up the good work! 💜
BTS has been bending and reshaping norms since the beginning. Some were not considered good looking, some were seen as not good dancers, etc. etc. But look at them global masters of music. They didn't conform to what people thought and just did their own thing. And that is why ARMY loves them. As RM said "Do You"
I totally agree with you..
Some of categorisation don't make any sense
All the so members are talented and flexible during a performance
And i think thats why Bangtan is always interesting and amazing
They try new things that surprise us
Like Jhope album without dance or his vocals on spring day
And also like jin suga doing dancing for their solos (AgustD literally did a really hard choreography for Haegum in my opinion)
Or like jimin rapping in spanish in chicken noodle soup live
These are just few examples of how versatile and amazing BTS as Artist.
#방탄소년단 사랑해
I just love your perspective and journalism! Thank you!
I’m going to say this. There are positions because that’s how it’s always been in kpop. There are objective ways to rank members in certain abilities. With vocals, you can actually rank how good of a vocalist they are by their abilities that every vocalist has despite the type of voice they have.
I would like to point out that something being the way it’s always done doesn’t make it good or necessary
@@CassIsABTSArmy yes but jungkook is the main vocalist because he’s a better vocalist overall
FINALLY someone talk about this issue it is so disgusting to rank them especially the visual line they are artistes not models.
some kpop cultures that I think they need to be changed
1 ranking their visuals
2 doesn't respect others fandom
3 talking about dating rumors
Yesss! I started noticing the diversity of the vocals of Jimin, V, Jungkook and Jin in Love Yourself: Tear. Not only them, the rap style of RM, Suga and Jhope is also unique from each other. That's one of the most outstanding element of BTS for me.
It's a great video.
I have to say something because you talked about the leader.
I don't know if you know that RM has to do a lot more things as the leader also including everything you said. We don't see much of it because it's going on behind the scenes. That's why we don't have much footage to his leadership. Even in compilations we don't see real serious and important footage because it's not shown much. Anyone can understand why that is, I'm sure lot of it are personal and also confidential. Most of the things he does happen behind-the-scenes. He has to take care of things between members and the company. Members talk about how he always kept them in check. There's a lot going on than we see. Communicate with everyone including the company. Under different circumstances.
You see members compliment him a lot, because they see everything we don't see.
There's a reason they do it so much.
I don't think a lot of ARMY see that. The things that are in compilation videos are not all of it.
In the early years specially he must have done a lot to keep the group together. I've seen others talk about that lot of times too.
He has a vision in everything even in making performances.
I can't say a lot but i hope people see that everything is not shown. So you don't know how much he does as a leader.
It's really different than the west obviously. That's why they have such a great bond.
I hate the visual line the most too. Not the members of course. The title s. It's very insulting. Something i don't like about kpop. They are all beautiful to me. Having a visual is like the rest aren't good looking, like what?
They are all precious and it doesn't matter if someone don't please the eyes of those people, talent is what matters. We are listening to the music first. Not faces.
I'm glad I'm ot7. It helps me to see every side.
All 7 of them are Amazing artists. I Stan all of them.
uhh not to be that person but jimin and j-hope are both main dancers and jungkook is the lead dancer, that's the 3Js, the dance line. it's not made up, it's real. hobi is the dance leader for sure but both jimin and him are the main dancers. all 7 of them are definitely dancers though. also, i've never heard of the visual line in my life - only of jin being the visual. i'm only going off of information they themselves said and/or have shown.
V is also in the dance line. Please i Don't know why army's always forget that Everytime!
@@nowrinmostafa7583 because he isn't. it's a rumour but it was never actually officially confirmed by anyone. a caption on an ig post saying so is not it and he has yet to actually dance with the dance line in any of their official content like that one special festa performance, the mma award show idol intro or the butter megan thee stallion remix dance video, and i sincerely doubt they're leaving him out of all of them on purpose. so i don't see how he is officially in the dance line, it's been spread by tae solos and armys started believing it - similarly to the rumour that tae and hobi switched rap/vocal roles close to debut. however, he is definitely one of the better dancers in the team and i'm fairly sure that's what they meant.
@@forg_tful. Is it actually a rumor? I've been an ARMY for the longest time but I never actually considered that it was never officially revealed, i just sorta acceptes him as part of the dance line....
@@losersloop i've literally never seen any official say/announcement/post on it and no one who has said he is in the line has actually given any proof apart from, if i remember, a son sung deuk instagram post caption? so i consider it a rumour. again, i highly doubt they would just leave tae out of all dance line content they do. i've heard almost everyone say he is in the dance line "after his performance in singularity" but logically, i don't see how that is so. everyone's just quoting that one introduction to bts video that also has no source for the claim. i'm not saying this to discredit tae in any way, i just genuinely never saw any official announcement, it's always been the 3Js doing dance content.
yeah visual line isn’t rlly a thing the members have mentioned iirc, it’s fan made/pushed by fans and personally I’ve heard it a lot so it’s interesting to hear someone who hasn’t :o
i get what you said about them being a music group, but we cant forget they debuted as an IDOL group, meaning kpop group, meaning kpop training system, meaning kpop culture, and that also meaning them having to accommodate to certain expectactions about their visuals as every idols have to; their skin, their hair, even their weight and height, and they ARE jugded by their visual, thank god not by armys, but by the gp, the media, knetizens, ''looks shouldnt matter'' but they do
i mean I agree but jimins official dance role is main along with jhope not just a dancer
I will say one thing about the “visual line”…..I find ALL the members beautiful both in body and soul. The latter is most important to me.
PREACH!!!! 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽 Thank you for this!
I agree with you especially about visuals.
Thank you for this excellent video!
You nailed this well, especially on the visual part!
All 7 of them are different and with multiple different facets!
Your videos are always on point!💯
Jimin and hobi r the main dancers
Finally finished watching ur all videos today! Loved it 😍
100% agree. Thank you for sharing…💜💜💜💜💜
Another well put together video, thank you. I bet a lot of Army agree with what you say, especially the visual line part. What a backwards notion that is. I still feel bad that Namjoon and Hoseok got grief for their looks in the early years, most of us could not even see what they were talking about. And I'm glad to see that 99.9% of the time when people are talking about their bias, they are not doing it in a way that is ranking the members. You almost ALWAYS hear "(Jin) is my bias, but I really love all of them". Armies seem to be so supportive of all of the members, it is a great thing for me to see, and makes me proud to be part of that kind of fandom.
@lemonssssssss4 okay? 🤔
Amo tu análisis
It was also really confusing to me at first, but later everyone realises that main > lead > sub and etc
Thank you soo much for your videos! You really deserve a bigger audience. Although I respect AND love BTS for like.. 2 years, I have really been misguided (maybe because I'm just a teen.. but I am learning) and your videos have been guiding me so much! I really want to thank you for your efforts and making these videos 💜
me being a one year army but didn't knew That there is a Dance line and Visual line
and i really don't care about these two lines tbh i never cared about the line distribution i just knew the rap and vocal line But we can't deny the fact that the rappers can sing and the vocalists can rapI didn't paid attention to the other lines because All members can dance perfectly (and better than me😂😅) And The visuals are insane whether it's jin, suga, jimin, v,, jungkook, rm or j hope They all have stunning visuals and they are unique in their own style but those 7 different styles compliment very good 😊💜
so overall BTS have
7 Vocalists
7 Rappers
7 Dancers
7 Visuals
7 Centers
and there's no main, lead or sub
They All are Amazing 💜💝
"Then, we have the dance line which consists of j-hope, who is the main dancer, Jungkook, who is the lead dancer, and Jimin and Taehyung who are dancers.". Woah, that was hella disrespectful towards Jimin. Like I get the point of your video, but the least you could do as an 'army' is fix that sentence.
i really like your contents...in-depth analysis are all in next higher level
I recently discovered your channel and so far I have been agreed to everything you said
I love the way you talk about facts and what you said about visual line is great.Just keep making good videos 👍
I would love to see a video where you can show the different styles of rap each member can do. Thank you
Yeah lines can hard to be changed, but the video's conclusion was nice and true. Exciting for Jack in the box review.
ik the whole point of the video is that the rankings don't hold much weight but I want to mention that in the official Dance Line, J-Hope *and Jimin* are both *main dancers* and have been since 2013; Jungk Kook has been a *lead* dancer since 2013; and Taehyung was added as just a *dancer* in 2017. It always irks me when people forget that Jimin has always been a main dancer and was added to BTS' line-up specifically for his dancing along with J-Hope
(edit - i do think the dance line matters more than the vocal or rap line rankings, just bcs it features a lot more obviously into BTS' performances; Jimin and J-Hope are technically stronger dancers than the others and are both really expressive with their performances, they usually get the hardest parts of the choreo, along with Jungkook; and though Tae was technically added as a dancer, the members still have their own 3J group as the primary dancers of the team, and that grouping actively matters in the group's side projects)
i think is important to praise bangtan members for what theyre into, what they like to do, and the positions they chose to occupy, knowing the freedom bh gave them in this area, and that is also a difference in dancing, rapping and singing abilities between the members, but i also agree with you when you say that the positions as FIXED ones are truly limitations to their artistic performance, and eventually limitations to how new stans view the members. i think this is something bangtan as a group have already overcome but that doesnt mean the public did as well, so thats why the lines are still a thing in army spaces, bc ppl still has this idea of jin not liking to dance or hobi having zero lines that were used as jokes, we need to get rid of that as we did with so many other weird things that were said about them, and def dont try to fit in with kpop fandoms and neither western ones, im saying this as a multi kpop stan myself, army doesnt need to be like any other fandom in this or any other industry, as nam once said: let them be them, let us be us, that way we will overcome these obstacles together
also im sorry if there are any mistakes, english isnt my first language ksksks
great video! I also dislike the main/lead/sub labels since to me it implies that their lines are determined /because/ of their position, when they've said multiple times they choose their lines based on who sounds best for each part. Hobi's position as dance leader is also important to add, since we've seen how he takes charge when their practicing their performance and all the members look to him if they get their choreography wrong.
Agreed and Jimin too is an underrated dance teacher. He steps up when Hobi can't or is unavailable...
There's no official "dance leader" position. That title is simply used by fans to appreciate Jhope.
Always appreciate that you share your opinion 💜Korea is such a hierarchical society, paying so much attention to status, money and age. It is a paradox that I love yes absolutely LOVE to watch K-drama, so culturally different but pretty sure I would become an activist if I lived there myself. To me the visual is the most controversial and I have been so upset about the early BTS years when a couple of the members received hate because of Korean beauty standards. It was heartbreaking. Hollywood is the same though only with more hypocrisy - in my opinion...
i don't mind the dance line because BTS themselves use it, they always joke about a member doing so well dancing that they'll soon enter the dance line (like it happened with Taehyung), and also because it makes sense to me. Hobi, Jimin and Jungkook prior to BTS were already studying dance, they have a huge background in dance which will always stand out from the rest in terms of technicalities, ability to help the others, lead the group and simply love for dancing. not saying the others don't love it but Namjoon and Yoongi were deep into rapping and producing while Tae and Jin always leaned more towards singing and acting.
i'm only alright with the visual line in terms of acting. to me it should be called actor line or something lol because Jin, Tae and Jungkook stood out while acting for HYYH storyline. the others did really well too tho, i particularly love Yoongi's acting skills in the Run and I Need U mvs.
people love categorizing stuff so that's why i'm not mad about these main lines. as long as BTS is okay with it and it doesn't limit the members to stick to one thing i'm fine with it
The leader and center roles are the least confusing and most sensible
you are really a beautiful , meaningful , open minded person from your heart . purple you
Keep up the amazing videos 🙏🏼
I absolutely agree with everything stated in this video
Excellent job, very good essay 💜🧿
Boracity you are so wise!
I agree completely! You go got my favorite line division tho… hyung and maknae 😂 that’s the only true one
I don’t care about the positions my fav vocalist is Jin. And I find him the most attractive but I find all the members so attractive and often wander how all the members are so talented in their own way.I just wish Jin got the amount of lines and screen time he deserved. Most of the things about the group like lines,screen time,positions,clothes and make up were unfair for him.
I'm in love with your videos
i don't think the positions these days gives or takes away importance of any member. each one of them is good at their own thing, for example even tho Hobi is the leader of dance, he asks for suggestions on moves from the makne line and also goes along with it. same with Joon who never overpowers the group rather to him its the members who makes him the leader. Jin guides along the way when it comes to singing long notes ( remeber he was teaching Joon epiphany ) . So they take decisions as a group and the line distributions are made by their own choices ( i knew about this line distribution thing from one of your videos. so thank you 😊💜) . And the most important thing happening especially recently is they all are getting equal love they deserve. People seem to forget there's anything like lines or positions and for us who don't really like it , is the best thing that has happened.
I thought Sub was more like substitute rapper/vocalist, rather than subpar.
I think positions are important, but not for the same reason as Kpop fans. This is a profession. In any career, job positions are important because they determine what your job duties are. It doesn't necessarily mean that one person is more talented or the only one qualified, and it definitely doesn't mean that one is more valuable. In my mind, leader, lines, mains, leads, etc. are just job positions. A way to know who does what.
If I own a restaurant and I hire a bartender, their job is to be behind the bar serving drinks. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't be a great server or that they don't know how to cook. Neither of those are important because I hired them to bartend.
Same with BTS. For instance, RM was chosen to be the leader but we know that J-Hope would do a great job.
Also, all of them dance but that doesn't make them part of the dance line. Some restaurants allow you to eat at the bar. The bartender does everything a server does for the customers seated at the bar. That doesn't make them servers. Their job is still bartender.
I agree that roles shouldn't limit them. Using my same analogy, the person who starts as a bartender may want to be manager one day and shouldn't be held back.
FYI - According to Melon Music, Jimin is a main dancer. I don't know how accurate the information is that's posted on their site, but I consider it a more reliable source than the fandom.
Thank you for your comment about the visuals. Beauty, indeed, is in the eye of the beholder. They're ALL very attractive and for my daughter I would choose RM first and Suga second for different reasons. And J-Hook is just as handsome. He has the best smile and laugh of anyone I know.
kereeennnn 😍😍
Your vids are always so well done, well produced, and well researched. Love them. But this is the only time I’ve ever spotted an error- Jimin is the main dancer along w JHope. JK is lead dancer. And V is dancer.
(For the record, I think the whole idea of lines is ridiculous haha- especially visuals. I’m just pointing out a mistake 😉🫰)
I believe that to continue to give importance to these positions would be to not recognize the effort of each member.
These positions were given at the beginning and they have improved tremendously.
To me they are all amazing and talented vocalists and no one is above the other.
💯
I didn't even know there was a "visual line", especially because everybody says that Jin is the visual... It's a bit discriminatory towards the others... I mean they're all handsome, they're all visuals. I'm more attracted by Jungkook, his personality makes him more beautiful (inside and outside) in my eyes but it doesn't mean I think the others are ugly !
Finally, we love them for them and their music, not because they're handsome. At least that's the case for me, I started to be a fan because I like their music and because I love them as they are and not for their appearance.
Also a huge part of this is solo antis aka akgaes just looking for things they can use to say their “fave” is better than the other members
Thank you for your explanation on the lines as I was totally in the dark on it and YESSSSSS ...👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 thank you. I agree on the your take on everything especially the visual line. I think its somewhat limiting for the artist and also insulting. Like it was said that Jin was accepted based on his looks but in the end he can sing too....and very well. Its differentfrom the others but...Idk....it's weird but thanks
I don't like position but l respect the postion.
1. Leader - l think every one should have leader the one who is spokesman for the group. Mostly leader are the one who spoke well in interview or magazines with wisdom & intelligence.
2. The vocal line - l think all group should have line if that particular member has great voice or has voice that fit their group concept the most.
Even if group claim to be who doesn't have line position still you will notice particular member singing the most.
I think line distribution should be fair but there are time line doesn't distribute is really unfair.
But l care about good music with bad line distribution than bad music with fair line distribution. Just enjoy music.
3. The Rap line - l don't know l never seen this topic as issues.
4.The Dance line - the dance line is non issues topic all group get their line based on their capability.
As bts fan l think Jhope is best dancer of bts & jimin too.
5. The visual - people hate this position keep saying visual is not important but l disagree cause for kpop visual is important specially for person who does fit the Korean standard.
There are many people who stan member or group just for visuals only.
6. The centre - l think centre is divided in to two.
- Centre in stage or cartography - The person who has alot energy in dance & voice being stable mostly are centre.
- Centre in photo shot & magazines - l see this most of the time in bts maknae line(jimin,V,jk) are center in Photoshop cause they are more popular. Even though the hyung line deserve to be as centre too but l think the maknae line being centre is great for marketing strategy cause they attract fans more to their group.
Center is NOT divided into 2.
BTS has only one center who is Jungkook.
BTS Leader RM has said Jungkook is the Center and has lots of parts as their center.
BTS creative director and choreographer Son Sung Deuk has said Jungkook was chosen as the center because he gives balance and solid vibes to the group so Yes...There is ONLY one center in BTS not two.
Well said💜
The only position I agree with is the leader one and about the centre position I think BTS themselves are getting more flexible with it since all the members are now taking up the centre whenever their part comes during a performance. If we want these positions to go then Armys should stop using these titles that's it, some of the biased armys still use these titles to introduce their bias to other people. Moreover these titles have done more harm than good, bcz some ppl still think that being a 'sub' or not getting included in a specific line means you're less talented than other members which is completely not true when it comes to BTS. For example Jin and Taehyung were given sub vocalists and they were not included in the dance line but over the years they've shown great growth in their skills but they're still referred to as 'sub' by some ppl. Similarly the visual line, not including rl and Jimin as if they're not good looking is ridiculous.
You misunderstand. Positions in lines are not meant to rank members from best to worst, they are meant as a guideline to who gets what responsibilities in the group. They were especially important during rookie times while the members were still honing their talents and learning to work as a group and less relevant now that everyone has leveled up considerably in performance capabilities and they have a pretty set way of working on music and planning performances.
What is problematic is fans using positions to argue which member is better, not the lines and the positions themselves. And of course how good someone is doesn't depend on the viewers' preference. J-Hope is a more well-rounded dancer than Jungkook, for instance, even if someone prefers JK's style better, but he hasn't put down the hours of vocal practice to be on par with any of the vocal line members. That doesn't mean he shouldn't get singing parts, but it means that he probably won't be on the next vocal line ballad.
Also J-Hope became a trainee for BTS back before BTS had a vocal line. It was meant to originally be a hip-hop group, so he wasn't "chosen to be a rapper and not a singer because of his connection with hip-hop".
The positions in the rap line may not make sense to you but they reflected the members' levels during debut times. J-Hope is an incredibly versatile rapper and producer now, but back then rapping was still pretty new to him and RM and Suga were way more experienced than him.
Also you have the positions in the dance line wrong.
J-Hope and Jimin were main dancers because they had dancing background, Jungkook was a lead dancer because he was good but still unpolished. He even flew to the USA pre-debut to get dance lessons. V became a part of the dance line much later on and although he is fantastic at some types of BTS choreography, he wouldn't be able to pull of something like Butter feat Megan Thee Stallion dance break, because of lack of experience with this type of movement.
Lead dancer and dance leader are different things. J-Hope is the dance leader because he is in charge of leading the performance and choreography (most recent example: the behind the scenes of the grammy awards highlighting the impact of his absence).
In short, please do your research before suggesting that positions within BTS make no sense and are irrelevant.
"he hasn't put down the hours of vocal practice to be on par with any of the vocal line members so he probably won't be on the next vocal line ballad" "j-hope and jimin were main dancers because they had dancing background" "jungkook was lead because he was good but unpolished" "v wouldn't be able to pull off butter dance break"
do you know them to say all of this??? those are just the stereotypes that come with these dumb positions. they are artists, period. you say it's not ranking them from best to worst but that it's literally what you are doing. these titles put them in horrible boxes and it's one of the most damaging things kpop has given them.
"you have the positions in the dance line wrong" i don't care. you say your version is the official one and twitter says another thing and an introduction video says another thing and another introduction says another thing. "do your research" i did and there's no consensus with positions and there shouldn't be cause there's no point in boxing them like this. so again, within bts, these positions make no sense and are irrelevant.
@@boracitymagazine
I don't need to know them, I have eyes and ears and experience in singing and dancing. Which you apparently don't since everything looks the same to you and the hard work the members have put in doesn't matter. Development doesn't seem to matter either to you. You are probably blind to how wonderfully vocal line has improved since their debut times or you probably can't appreciate the difficulty and the mastery of what 3J are capable of.
What stereotypes do you mean? That people who attended hip-hop/street dancing classes for years might have been more polished than a person who didn't have a dance background? That's not a stereotype, that's a fact of life. Imagine you have two figure skaters, one of them has beautiful spins and the other one can do difficult jumps. That's not putting them into boxes, that's an estimation of how they can maximise their potential. When you choreograph for them, you'll put a quadruple jump in the program of the person who can do it and not in the program of the person who'll fall and injure himself attempting the jump.
BTS are a worldwide phenomenon now and are appreciated for the kind of music they make but you seem to forget their beginnings. It was not only important for them to set themselves apart from other groups, but also to be flawless in their performances. They trained their 2013-2014 choreos so hard, for so many hours a day to be perfect. They needed the recognition first, so that they could deliver their artistry to a wide audience. What they could and couldn't do mattered to them and they put hard work into improving themselves.
In the end positions are just a tool of hierarchy. And hierarchy is offensive only to people whose ambitions don't match the work they are putting in or don't want to acknowledge that there might be a limits to what they can do. I'm sure none of the members have any issues with hierarchy. In fact they always rush to hightlight he importance of other members and how much they contribute to the group.
Also since when is twitter a good source of information? There shouldn't be a consensus on these things. They were stated officially. And as I said they were more relevant in the past, and barely important now, so no need to get triggered about them in 2022. Unless you spend all your time watching solo stan wars on twitter. Or, like in your case, if you wanted to give an edgy opinion without understanding the issue at hand.
@@saturdayandrain lmaoo i never said everything looks the same to me. i mention multiple times in the video that they are artists and that's why they are all versatile and shine on their own. and development does matter to me. i have a video titled "j-hope's growth" where i literally talk about his development and i will do the same type of video for every member. your figure skating example just proves my point. the person who does great spins and the one who does difficult jumps don't have dumb titles of "sub" or "lead." they are both figure skaters, period. they are different? of course, they are artists and they shine in different ways but in the end, they are both figure skaters. bts doesn't care about those kpop titles and neither should we. we can (and should!) acknowledge their indivual talents like contemporary dacing, underground rapping or learning everything from scratch, but they are artists and it's better to not label them. that's all i'm saying
What a great video! Totally agree. I don't like the labels. Every single one of them is unique and could easily stand alone as an artist. I ve never seen such a talented group in my life and I've come to love every single member for who they are. Have to admit that my bias is J-Hope but all the others are my bias wreckers. I've never liked rap or hip-hop and yet Hobi has stolen my heart. And I love Jack in the Box and this new side of him. But each one of them can light up my day and make me smile. They are all perfect in their own way and deserve all the best in life.
First of all, I agree with much of what's said here.
Otherwise, it is not true that BTS' popularity and appreciation should be focused on everything except their looks.
They're not just musicians, they're all-encompassing performers who happen to sell song recordings first, photographs and videos next, then other merchandise.
They cannot sell things other than music if they don't have visual appeal. Their visual appeal actually helps sell their music.
Visual appeal is subjective, and it's not healthy either to say we shouldn't appreciate them as expressions of visual performance:
facial expressions
style
fashion
expressive gestures
dancing
Reality or variety shows would have far less enjoyable content if they're just filled with conventionally unattractive funny people.
The reverse is true: uninteresting and non funny content is popular and even addicting if the cast is visually appealing and charming.
We as fans can enjoy appreciating beauty and charms as much as we want. What we should do less of, is treating people as objects, as if items to be owned, traded, judged, and discarded.
The question of revising or improving "visual" nomenclature with regards to unofficial or official positions in Kpop groups is best done with the above in mind.
I respectfully offer the above for your consideration.
They complete each other .
Agree on all the points! Go off, gurl! You're doing great!!!
It’s sad 😢 i just went through a lot of comments and it seems like hardly anyone got the meaning of this video I did and thank you for this because I’m so tired of seeing people comparing one member to another or because it’s their favorite member they deserve lead on everything it doesn’t work like that they are a group each member brings something different to the table all 7 are equal to me. They are all great dancers they all are handsome yes we need our leader we know who rap and who sings but that’s it we don’t need a dance line when all of them dance we don’t need a visual line because all of the are handsome we don’t need a vocal line because I’ve seen all 7 sing and we don’t need a rap line because I’ve seen all 7 rap we should love all them and stop the hate on other members
Those who use sub-titles / because the discriminate the member in question !!!!
all of them are main vocalist / because each of them has their unique way of singing in BTS
I really appreciated this. It is definitely time we get past most of the previously used titles. 💜
Agreed 💯
Totally agree with you, this lines definitions shouldn't exists, all 7 members are amazingly talented and so different from one another, that they all in one point in time or another fit in one "line definition" so why even try to define them.
Creo que las compañías y los fans dependen tanto de las etiquetas porque no saben que hacer con sus artistas.
Se ponen tan defensivos de ellas porque por alguna razón no encuentran una identidad en sus favoritos. Ya sea que las compañías no se molesten en pensar más allá de la fórmula que crearon, o que los fans mismos se sientan inseguros con sus artistas y de cómo tratarlos.
Muchos idols han debutado sólo por su apariencia o una especialidad de baile (Cosas que no se pueden apreciar el 100% de las veces, como cuando escuchás un álbum. Aveces ser apuesto no significa que esa persona tenga el tipo de personalidad que mantiene la atención que gana a primera vista. Y, a menos que se hagan ciertos conceptos, ese bailarín que se enfoca en un sólo tipo de baile puede fácilmente pasar a segundo plano cuando se priorice una coreografía grupal).
Es entendible que muchos fandoms de kpop continúen usando estas etiquetas para definir a sus favoritos cuando todo lo que los rodea prácticamente refuerza esta mentalidad.
Sólo alguien que esté dispuesto a ver a su artista por quién es (y cuando me refiero a artista es porque se supone que este hace arte para mostrar su identidad al mundo) es capaz de ignorar toda esa basura y no sentirse presionado a mantener esas etiquetas.
Como fan de un artista con una identidad tan fuerte, considero simplista y hasta irrespetuoso meter a los chicos en estas categorías, son seres humanos con muchas facetas y artistas comprometidos a los que les gusta probar sus habilidades y seguir conociendo sus capacidades.
No ignoraría nada de eso sólo porque alguien más se siente inseguro y cree que quitarle una etiqueta al artista (que sólo lo limita y lo muestra como un ser unidimensional) es una amenaza a su "identidad".
Creo que cada uno de los chicos de BTS es más grande que cualquier etiqueta.
Desde hace tiempo que ARMY quiere despegarse de esa mentalidad kpopie, pero desde la pandemia parece que hubo un renacimiento, y prácticas problemátics que habían empezado a ser cuestionadas y abandonadas por el fandom han vuelto con fuerza.
Culpo de esto a las solo stans, muchas de ellas son kpopies que stannean a un sólo miembro de BTS a la vez que apoyan a otros grupos o solo stannean a otros idols y miden a este miembro favorito con la misma vara que a los demás de su lista.