There's something wonderful about CRTs. Its like they are living things, they are all different, all have idiosyncrasies and no two are alike. Bringing one back to life is a magical thing, thank you Adrian.
I love CRTs, it makes me sad that there are no manufactures or rebuilders anywhere in the world to my knowledge. Hawkeye closed down, followed a few years later by RACS and that was that. Color CRTs in particular have such a huge chain of supplies and processes that go into making them that I very much doubt they will ever be produced again.
I dare say if you are able to repair the cataracts on the original CRT I think you are legally obligated to put it back in the terminal for originality! Great video!
English isn't my native language so I sent this comment over to Chat-GPT to clue me in Chat-GPT explains... "I dare say": This phrase expresses a mild assertion or opinion, suggesting the speaker is making a slightly formal or confident statement. "if you are able to repair the cataracts on the original CRT": This refers to fixing a problem (likely discoloration or clouding) on a cathode ray tube (CRT). "Cataracts" in this context is likely a metaphorical use, drawing from the clouding of the eye's lens in medical terms. "I think you are legally obligated to put it back in the terminal for originality": The speaker suggests there might be a legal or ethical obligation to reinstall the repaired CRT into its original terminal (likely a vintage computer or display device) to maintain its originality. It seems to be about preserving the authenticity of a device during repair. If this aligns with your intended meaning, it's quite clear, albeit somewhat niche. The speaker could also be "pulling one's leg". Would you like me to refine or rephrase it for clarity? ** I understand more now and I'm currently looking up the phrase "pulling one's leg". PoLoMo you RoCk!
@@paulstubbs7678 Agreed. I'm pre-switch (not the game). People can say what you will about a L-supply but it's dang simple, reliable and understandable. This I understand If it's a choice between a rainforest and 'noise free power', well.."power to the people" You RoCk PStuBBs
I would try soaking the old crt in acetone to get the front layer off, i have had luck doing this on other screens with similar issues. (note if you do this make sure the acetone bath does not come up the sides and get on the electrical coating.)
@@cbullar4205 Now that's what I call a solution If heating is considered, "a traditional heating pad" can go as high as ~170F. Laying it face down (reminds me of a old GF ). Silicone thermal pads for more heat. A heat guns just sounds a bit dicier IMO. However the big-A sounds like the worthy winner (disregarding flash fires etc 🔥)
Well if you're referring to my comment from the other video, no, I didn't suggest water, I suggested placing it face down in alcohol as the glue supposedly dissolves in alcohol. You just need enough to cover the first few inches, and let it soak for a while (upwards of a few days) then peel and soak, peel and soak and it "should" come off 'easily'... This is all according to a friend who used to do this sort of thing for color and high end CRTs.
After a quick google search about solvents I found that DMSO apparently works better than water at dissolving PVA, I wouldn't recommend it though as DMSO can carry substances dissolved in it through skin, I'd be careful if going that route.
@@pANZERNOOb IPA or denatured alcohol should also dissolve it too, at least from what I'm told it does, maybe not as quickly as other solvents but with relatively more safety...
As usual, Adrian, your ability to repair and revitalize older tech comes down to TPE: Tools/Test Equipment, Parts, and Experience. (...and sometimes a bit of luck! 🙂) Glad you were able to get it going, looking forward to future videos.
These old terminals have a wonderful minimalist, brutalist architectural design language to them. Somehow they manage to seem both retro and futuristic even today.
Imagine what these would be with live audience, I would have goofed up when Adrian was scratching his head on how to pull the screen forward when adjusting its place, by yelling " stick a toilet plunger to it ". Good thing i was commenting on this side of the screen.
PVA is water soluble but if water doesn't work, try acetone or mineral spirits. BUT you really should replace the glue between the CRT and the glass sheet, not just silicone the edges. It's not there to block an implosion, nor does it have any hope of doing so. Like the implosion band, it's there to stabilize the face of the tube and prevent an implosion.
The method I've had the best luck with removing safety glass from an old CRT is sealing off the hole in the tube and submerging the tube in hot water for a while, the hot water softens the pva glue and seeps in between the glass and the tube (some have just fallen off)
Careful not to submerge the dag coating. I used to routinely wash tubes and even whole chassis in the dishwasher to remove all the gross sticky nicotine residue from arcade monitors and TVs that were in bars. Usually it was fine but in one case the dag was water soluble and washed clean off!
What I'd be inclined to do with that old tube, presuming that the glue really is water soluble, is to lay it face down in a tub with a couple of inches (7-8cm) of water for a few days. If I had the time, I'd also get an automotive windscreen washer pump and some tubes and use the pump to move the water around the tub to keep the water constantly flowing so that the glue would wash away more easily.
I really like that choice of colors, keycap design and overall shape of the Soroc terminal. The original CRT seems to have a blueish tint which also fits perfectly for design of the terminal. Hopefully you'll get the CRT fixed at some point.
8:18 - that grounding wire was used by some manufacturers to connect onto the CRT socket circuit board; not sure if this terminal has anything like that.
PVA is the regular white wood glue you let kids play with. It's not toxic, it's water soluable and the reason it's got ugly is probably being stored in a moist place to begin with, which is also why it's got runny; it's basically water making it liquid-y. The PVA itself is not conductive nor corrosive or anything.
You know, the PVA glue being water soluble could certainly lend itself to being a feasible explanation for the cataract problem, and why it always starts from the outside edge. Humidity leaking in between the glass panes causing the glue to fail.
I would not try to "rejueve," but you can bake the cathode by running it off your B&K or Sencore at an elevated filament voltage for 24hours while applying operating voltage (or slightly elevated) to the cathode. That will "wake up" the barium by (hopefully) baking off impurities and allowing the getter to absorb them. It's probably been sitting for a long time, so it could make a big difference in brightness to do that, and it wouldn't place the tube as risk like a rejuve would
Rejuve is something to do as a last resort when the tube is otherwise not usable. And a lesson I learned is if you do see an improvement, quit while you're ahead. It's tempting to give it enough shot to see if it improves further but usually that puts you back worse than you started off.
7:36 - Regarding the stickiness around the CRT anode: some manufacturers would use some gel like insulation material on the anode cap’s “suction cup” to reduce the possibility of any arcing. That might explain what you have there.
The HV also attracts smoke and nicotine is sticky and oily so equipment that was used around smokers tends to get coating in a sticky mess. Back before my time people used to smoke in offices, it's funny seeing old movies where people are sitting around a conference table puffing away.
Great terminal, but it won't have that authentic period-correct look until you've attached stickers with your handwritten passwords next to the screen.
Who does that - no, you use the words already on the terminal as your password. Had a bloke at work who did that, it took me a few minutes to realise his new password was 'Compaq'
I can't believe how much this series has made me want a terminal that I have no real reason to own. It's such a striking object. I might try to get one and connect it to a Raspberry Pi and make house guests sign a guestbook on it.
I have a Wyse 60 I was lucky enough to be given several years ago and I did more or less that, connecting it to a RPi. I'm nostalgic about the Wyse 60 because the local library had a bunch of them for accessing the card catalog when I was a kid.
Hi Adrain, always excellent videos. A thought, not for now or the forseeable future but an added string to your bow: What to do if you have a machine with a monitor you really want to get running but you just can't source a CRT? Yes the obvious answer is to use a suitbly-sized LCD and appropriate driver, but we all know how janky that ends up looking... besides who wants to cut the bezel of a much loved retro machine? I have a plan that worked very well for a Mac SE/30 of mine: 1) Source all the stuff required to get a suitable LCD to work with the system. 2) Buy a nice and thin sheet of light to medium smoked plexiglass. Cut a good bit larger than the apeture, *then* remember to remove the film from *both* sides. 3) Fully dismantle your CRT down to the tube only. Empty a kitchen oven large enough for the tube to stand on it's neck... 4) Then rig up a heat-proof jig that the tube can be attached to, such that it will stand screen-up exactly strait. 5) Take a thick paper kitchen towel or thin felt, thoroughly dampen but not sopping wet, and lay over the screen, without any creases! 6) Put the whole thing in your oven and very slowly raise the temperature over about 30-60mis to about 60-80c (sorry, I'm not a collonial) 7) When the screen is up to temperature carefully heat the plexiglass with a hair dryer / heat gun until it's just starting to get soft, taking care not to scratch it! 8) Open the oven, place the plexiglass over the screen (leaving the towel / felt in place) and encourage it to flop a bit. 9) At this point you might be very licky, but chances are you will need to return the whole thing to the oven and repeatedly encourage the plexigalss to form over the screen... 10) What you are after is for the plexiglass to perfectly form over the screen (without creases, and avoid thouching it while hot!)... 11) ...Encourage the corners to droop over the screen's mounting lugs as closely as you can without risking damage to the soft plastic. 12) When you have done as much as you dare, make sure to leave the whole thing to fully cool naturally in the oven. Once all is ready you should be able to peal your formed plexiglass from the CRT without harm. Depending on how you did you may need to polish out scuff-marks or the weave of your interface cloth if you chose poorly. Cut the plexiglass with a Dremmel about 1/4 - 1/2 inch larger than the screen all round (I can do Imperial) and drill out the lugs. The whole thing should mount perfectly in the bezel of the monitor - hurrah! Next, offer up your LCD with a bit of hot glue to a couple of corners and fiddle until it looks right from the front. Then go ham with more hot glue or epoxy to seal around all the edges - done! Depending on how much light gets in to the monitor case you may need to add some mat-black card to our 'LCD mounting solution' arround the bezel of the LCD, especially if it's very shiny. I hope you'll agree the result looks surprisingly good, and as long as you chose perspex / plexiglass with a light to medium smoke it will pass casual observation, even to those using the machine... as long as they aren't too familliar with real CRT's or the system so butchered. Of course LCD drivers often have give-away boot screens that can't be switched off, but not much can be done about that! Just to prove it wasn't a fluke, after the SE/30 I pulled the tube out of a dead (I think) 12in Apple II B/W monitor and performed the same trick. With lots of spare room inside I mounted my daughter's RC2014 behind the screen - the whole thing now looks like a terminal running CP/M when it's not doing more 'exciting' things. Maybe you'll never need to try this, maybe you will. I hope these instructions helpf someone some day.
Interesting mod, I wondered about doing something similar with plexiglass, but somehow frosting the backside, then using one of those cheap low powered LED projectors to throw an image on the screen from behind, that way you'd have a proper curved image, the thing that gives it away immediately to me that an LCD hack has been performed - it's a fake! NASA rebuilt the old Apollo missions control room, but it only took me 5 secs to spot the fake screens, there has to be a better way. As for the startup junk on LCD screens, you could put a timer on the backlight, this would both kind of emulate the slow start of a real CRT, and hide the controllers messages.
22:53 - FYI: the image size doesn’t go as far top to bottom and side to side; lowering the anode voltage would allow the image to grow a bit (assuming there is any adjustment for the anode voltage). But then you get an even dimmer picture, so you will probably be best off leaving this alone.
It's wild to see the "desire" curve of devices... Buy New, sell used, give away for free, nobody will take it for free, in the dumpster it goes, oh I have to PAY to get rid of this!!? I'll still sneak it in a dumpster! And then this is collectable because it's now rare even though hundreds of thousands were built, but most were destroyed unless they survived buried in a corner closet for 40 years and modern day e waste policy didn't kill it. I remember being asked if I wanted a "computer" only to see it was a terminal and say no... But thankfully I never declined something as old as this, just 80's WYSE terminals.
It seemingly does take a lot of time to seep through. "shango066" let it soak over 2 months until the PVA was completely separated (it turned into a rubber-like consistency). From his video, i get that he did not check often, though. Slow but safe.
21:10 - the faceplate curvature is probably quite different between the two CRTs that you have there; the original with the extra panel on the face would have a larger curvature, and the replacement CRT shows that by not being as snug to the bezel.
I still suggest using a ceramic infered heat lamp. the kind used for keeping reptiles warm. with a cheap lamp hood you could aim a specific amount of directed heat at the screen and it would help remove that cover. idk if a heat gun is a good idea
Just put washers as spacers on the CRT mounting screws, this will slide the screen in the exact direction toward the cover bezel. Whereas if you slide from the motherboard, it will not slide to the normal axle of the screen.
I would have assumed you could have soaked the front of the tube in something like acetone to dissolve or soften the glue on the safety glass and remove the risk of implosion. Oh hey you got the replacement working, nice one!
What a great series this has been! Would you consider doing a short video of setting the terminal up to work with some old PCs or going online to communicate with a BBS?
it's worth noting that doing a cataract removal isn't hard, just tedious. Careful use of a heat gun will melt the adhesive attaching the lens, so it can be removed, disposed of, and you can re-apply the lens with rubber sealant.
I just noticed that there is an auto audio translation available for this video (I didn’t even knew that it existed). I must say that I’m pretty impressed with the quality of the French translation.
If the new CRT seems a bit tired, just let it run for a few hours and it'll probably improve. This is very common with CRTs that haven't been used for a while.
This is the first time I can recall coming across a CRT that physically fit, shared the same neck size and would not work. I've done a lot of tube swaps, mostly in arcade monitors but some computer monitors too and in every case I can recall it pretty much just worked. Had a couple color tubes I couldn't converge as well as I'd have liked but mono tubes are easy. Maybe older tubes had more differences? BTW I really like that you properly diagnose things rather than just shooting the parts cannon at them. Several times I've had to fix things that somebody screwed up by shotgun replacing all the electrolytic capacitors. The worst is when they replace top quality parts with cheap no-name stuff that fails before the original part would have. Every part that gets removed is another opportunity for an error to sneak in. The only parts I shotgun replace are SMT electrolytics since they do so much damage when they leak.
PVA glue is what white Elmer's glue is. I'm not an expert and there may be a variety of formulations that can still be considered PVA, but all glue labeled PVA that I've ever used is water soluble and I've been wondering throughout the series if the glue could be softened with water rather than risking heat.
A win for the books with this CRT there, I would say that now we can see (literally) what it can do, but that's kind of been done with the testing, but would be neat to see it in action as intended... :D
Adrian, if the glue is water soluble and requires heat to remove: couldn't you just keep the crt suspended in boiling/hot water face down in a large metal pot for a bit and see if the safety glass just falls off?
Great video!, dumb question? would it make sense to use a tv tube tester to test the tube before installing? might make for boring video if its bad, but could save alot of time and effort.
If warm water doesn't dissolve the glue, the PVA may have polymerized and have become resistant to water. If that is the case, you may try soaking it in white vinegar, acetone, or methylated spirits. Warm bath of white vinegar (dilute or concentrated, depending) seems to work best in most cases, but the results depend on the particular compound.
I would try soaking the old crt in acetone to get the front layer off, i have had luck doing this on other screens with similar issues. (note if you do this make sure the acetone bath does not come up the sides and get on the electrical coating.)
Yup, same in the US. Here it's often referred to as "Elmer's Glue", or "white glue", and is often used in school, and for crafts, etc, because it's water-based, non-toxic and dries clear...
Back then designing with discrete logic chips was like solving a puzzle. Some amazing designs were created. Now you just write some Verilog code and all the creativity is gone.
Well it's not doing any computational work...only echoing serial data to the screen and maybe some local scrollback but also tbf a cpu is just a lot of discrete logic circuits scaled down into one chip instead of many.
They built loads of stuff without CPUs back in that era. The Cinematronics arcade games had no CPU, they built one out of discrete logic. Games like Pong and Breakout had no CPU and no code, the video signal and game logic was generated with logic chips
Early dot matrix printers also didn’t have processors in them and used very similar column and row digital counters to sequence through font PROMS as the print head fired its pins. They even had font flip flops that would set/reset by control codes (DC1-DC4) to select different font PROMs. (All of those ASCII control codes originally had purpose) Centronics was an early manufacturer of dot matrix printers like that, and their name just stuck.
@ Dot matrix printers were the norm when I was a kid, I will never forget that incredibly obnoxious screeching grinding sound they made. I remember stuffing pillows around our printer in attempt to quiet it down a bit while printing a banner with Print Shop. On that note, tractor feed printers sure were cool for that, you could easily print a 10 foot long banner.
I don't think that tube would need all that much heat to remove. Usually you only need heat if there's a center in the tube that's still intact. That glue is entirely degraded. It should just come apart pretty easily. And it's a very small tube too. Very easy to work with.
And a new piece of history saved from the scrap heap. Well done! Now to put it to good use as a serial terminal connected to one of your other retro computers. Because you can. 😆
UsagiElectric plans on setting up some "dial-up"/remote connections for his Centurion minicomputer, so Adrian could try connecting to that machine when it's ready.
Reminds me of 80's movie computers.... and it's great that you got it going but unlike the c64's and the like, I can't see any use for it... bar an active museum piece....
The earliest form of integral implosion protection was a second layer of glass bonded to the face of the tube. Earlier tubes had no integral protection so TV sets up into the 1950s had a separate layer of glass or plastic in front of the tube. Starting sometime in the 60s or 70s integral implosion protection in the form of a tension band around the perimeter of the tube face appeared and removed the need for the bonded glass. No bonding glue, no cataracts.
@James1095 ah I see But why do all the cataract fixes I see online, use silicon with a gap (I read those fix arent perfect) Why dont they reaply the glue like the factory did?
@@Veso266 Because applying an optically clear glue without any bubbles, dust or contamination is difficult. Maybe it's possible to do but I don't think I've ever seen it done.
@@James1095 what about if they would just retrofit tension band like newer crt do and discard the glass intierly? Or does crt structure have to be altered for that somehow
@@Veso266 I don't know. Having been just a few feet away from a CRT implosion one time I would not personally want to attempt something that might cause me to witness another such event.
I would love to see if you can get the coating off of the original CRT. But I have a question. Have you ever had a CRT implode on you while working on it?
I haven't while working on one, but I did throw a dead 19" tube in a dumpster back in the day and forget to crack the pip off first. The bell of the tube hit the hinge of the dumpster lid and there was an enormous boom that left my ears ringing. Somehow I escaped unscathed but there was about a 10 foot radius of glass shards on the ground and my hands were shaking for about the next half hour. I've heard of guys having them implode trying to swap the mounting ears that are held on by the implosion band. I would not mess around with the implosion protection without a face shield and leather gloves.
nice looking unit if i was you i will put washers between the CRT mounting tabs and the chassis. nothing can't be fixed with washers (i know normally we says nothing can't be fixed with duct tape but duct tape is disgusting!)
Bot sure if it's the same PVA as book binding glue that's acid-free, water-soluble, dries clear, and is usually considered an archival quality formula. But if so that's easy peasey. If not then it is likely closer to Elmer's glue which isn't necessarily acid free as evidenced by the yellowing of the paper it's used on. Though some sun-bleaching also occurs. So, not to sure.
PVA glues are usually solvent based. Not water, because water chemically breaks down PVA (this is why PVA glues generally have a slight vinegar smell, water breaks down Polyvinyl Acetate into Polyvinyl Alcohol, also called PVA, and Acetic Acid, the acid in vinegar that gives it it's characteristic smell). You might get somewhere with the water bath of the front of the tube, as many PVA glues are relatively susceptible to attack by water. If you can create a chemically effective seal, you might also try mineral spirits. Only if you can be completely sure you can contain the vapor, though. For a job like this, soaking will take a long time to work through the glue, due to the narrow front and large depth of glue.
![Adrian's Digital Basement ][](http://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AIdro_k7CrQRe71qN6c0Ua7A1P_I8KkxjqLa70u0zYeCvdvnKw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
There's something wonderful about CRTs. Its like they are living things, they are all different, all have idiosyncrasies and no two are alike.
Bringing one back to life is a magical thing, thank you Adrian.
I love CRTs, it makes me sad that there are no manufactures or rebuilders anywhere in the world to my knowledge. Hawkeye closed down, followed a few years later by RACS and that was that. Color CRTs in particular have such a huge chain of supplies and processes that go into making them that I very much doubt they will ever be produced again.
I dare say if you are able to repair the cataracts on the original CRT I think you are legally obligated to put it back in the terminal for originality! Great video!
English isn't my native language so I sent this comment over to Chat-GPT to clue me in
Chat-GPT explains...
"I dare say":
This phrase expresses a mild assertion or opinion, suggesting the speaker is making a slightly formal or confident statement.
"if you are able to repair the cataracts on the original CRT":
This refers to fixing a problem (likely discoloration or clouding) on a cathode ray tube (CRT). "Cataracts" in this context is likely a metaphorical use, drawing from the clouding of the eye's lens in medical terms.
"I think you are legally obligated to put it back in the terminal for originality":
The speaker suggests there might be a legal or ethical obligation to reinstall the repaired CRT into its original terminal (likely a vintage computer or display device) to maintain its originality.
It seems to be about preserving the authenticity of a device during repair. If this aligns with your intended meaning, it's quite clear, albeit somewhat niche. The speaker could also be "pulling one's leg". Would you like me to refine or rephrase it for clarity?
** I understand more now and I'm currently looking up the phrase "pulling one's leg". PoLoMo you RoCk!
In that vein, I'm kind of glad Adrian fixed the old linear supply rather than swapping in a switchmode.
@@paulstubbs7678 Agreed. I'm pre-switch (not the game). People can say what you will about a L-supply but it's dang simple, reliable and understandable. This I understand If it's a choice between a rainforest and 'noise free power', well.."power to the people" You RoCk PStuBBs
I would try soaking the old crt in acetone to get the front layer off, i have had luck doing this on other screens with similar issues. (note if you do this make sure the acetone bath does not come up the sides and get on the electrical coating.)
@@cbullar4205 Now that's what I call a solution If heating is considered, "a traditional heating pad" can go as high as ~170F. Laying it face down (reminds me of a old GF ). Silicone thermal pads for more heat. A heat guns just sounds a bit dicier IMO. However the big-A sounds like the worthy winner (disregarding flash fires etc 🔥)
Well if you're referring to my comment from the other video, no, I didn't suggest water, I suggested placing it face down in alcohol as the glue supposedly dissolves in alcohol. You just need enough to cover the first few inches, and let it soak for a while (upwards of a few days) then peel and soak, peel and soak and it "should" come off 'easily'...
This is all according to a friend who used to do this sort of thing for color and high end CRTs.
Yeah, I saw a "water test" and it sat for like a month and nothing happened. It's not water soluble.
After a quick google search about solvents I found that DMSO apparently works better than water at dissolving PVA, I wouldn't recommend it though as DMSO can carry substances dissolved in it through skin, I'd be careful if going that route.
@@pANZERNOOb IPA or denatured alcohol should also dissolve it too, at least from what I'm told it does, maybe not as quickly as other solvents but with relatively more safety...
The end product looks great... but the best part of this video (as always) is the troubleshooting and thought-process explanation.
As usual, Adrian, your ability to repair and revitalize older tech comes down to TPE: Tools/Test Equipment, Parts, and Experience. (...and sometimes a bit of luck! 🙂)
Glad you were able to get it going, looking forward to future videos.
These old terminals have a wonderful minimalist, brutalist architectural design language to them. Somehow they manage to seem both retro and futuristic even today.
I ROFLed at "ohhh we have a super sharp cursor ... oh it is fuzzy"
HAHA --- yeah when looking closer.... "oh I see"
I have the opposite problem lately. Things look fuzzy until I step back or take off my glasses. The joys of being over 40...
@@AntoineWGYeah, and it is annoying as hell when your nose does not reach far enough anymorre and you have to hold those damn glasses by hand. 😑
Imagine what these would be with live audience, I would have goofed up when Adrian was scratching his head on how to pull the screen forward when adjusting its place, by yelling " stick a toilet plunger to it ". Good thing i was commenting on this side of the screen.
Love this series.
Yup! Instant „oh! i need to watch this!“
It is a saga, I love it :)
PVA is water soluble but if water doesn't work, try acetone or mineral spirits. BUT you really should replace the glue between the CRT and the glass sheet, not just silicone the edges. It's not there to block an implosion, nor does it have any hope of doing so. Like the implosion band, it's there to stabilize the face of the tube and prevent an implosion.
It is a very nice-looking device. It has the perfect retro look. Now thanks to you, it lives again. Would love to have one of these terminals.
Adrian's Analog attic! ^-^
I will never give up on this, it's just a fun name! And CRT's are by their very nature an analog device.
Yay
The method I've had the best luck with removing safety glass from an old CRT is sealing off the hole in the tube and submerging the tube in hot water for a while, the hot water softens the pva glue and seeps in between the glass and the tube (some have just fallen off)
Careful not to submerge the dag coating. I used to routinely wash tubes and even whole chassis in the dishwasher to remove all the gross sticky nicotine residue from arcade monitors and TVs that were in bars. Usually it was fine but in one case the dag was water soluble and washed clean off!
It looks awesome with the new CRT.
Looks like a prop from War Games. Nice thorough repair. Thanks for covering this repair.
Cataract removal? Time for an Adrian and Shango collab!
I'd love to see both their personalities collide.
And Freakin' Reviews guy too?
YAAAAAAAAY you saved it!!!!!!!
What I'd be inclined to do with that old tube, presuming that the glue really is water soluble, is to lay it face down in a tub with a couple of inches (7-8cm) of water for a few days. If I had the time, I'd also get an automotive windscreen washer pump and some tubes and use the pump to move the water around the tub to keep the water constantly flowing so that the glue would wash away more easily.
Can a windshield washer motor run continuously for that long?
@@djmips It should be able to, so long as it has a continuous water flow to keep it cool. But anything which keeps the water moving should work.
Finally reasonable short video. 🙂
I really like that choice of colors, keycap design and overall shape of the Soroc terminal. The original CRT seems to have a blueish tint which also fits perfectly for design of the terminal. Hopefully you'll get the CRT fixed at some point.
8:18 - that grounding wire was used by some manufacturers to connect onto the CRT socket circuit board; not sure if this terminal has anything like that.
I don't think I've ever seen such a painful tube swap process before. Good job sticking to it.
Yeah
PVA is the regular white wood glue you let kids play with. It's not toxic, it's water soluable and the reason it's got ugly is probably being stored in a moist place to begin with, which is also why it's got runny; it's basically water making it liquid-y. The PVA itself is not conductive nor corrosive or anything.
this is a freakin’ cool and educative series
You know, the PVA glue being water soluble could certainly lend itself to being a feasible explanation for the cataract problem, and why it always starts from the outside edge. Humidity leaking in between the glass panes causing the glue to fail.
❤❤❤❤❤❤
And now, you have no excuse against making more videos on the UNIX system.
#facts
"Nah nah nah, you didn't say the magic word"
Sudo make videos about unix ?
😂
Nah he's probably going to fix another terminal first, I remember a multi player game on that system. He needs to be able to beat himself.
Your tenacity is impressive, I doubt I could've stuck with this the way you have. Nevertheless, it makes good watching!
I would not try to "rejueve," but you can bake the cathode by running it off your B&K or Sencore at an elevated filament voltage for 24hours while applying operating voltage (or slightly elevated) to the cathode. That will "wake up" the barium by (hopefully) baking off impurities and allowing the getter to absorb them. It's probably been sitting for a long time, so it could make a big difference in brightness to do that, and it wouldn't place the tube as risk like a rejuve would
Rejuve is something to do as a last resort when the tube is otherwise not usable. And a lesson I learned is if you do see an improvement, quit while you're ahead. It's tempting to give it enough shot to see if it improves further but usually that puts you back worse than you started off.
What an epic journey! Well done. Thanks for a great series.
7:36 - Regarding the stickiness around the CRT anode: some manufacturers would use some gel like insulation material on the anode cap’s “suction cup” to reduce the possibility of any arcing. That might explain what you have there.
The HV also attracts smoke and nicotine is sticky and oily so equipment that was used around smokers tends to get coating in a sticky mess. Back before my time people used to smoke in offices, it's funny seeing old movies where people are sitting around a conference table puffing away.
Great terminal, but it won't have that authentic period-correct look until you've attached stickers with your handwritten passwords next to the screen.
Who does that - no, you use the words already on the terminal as your password.
Had a bloke at work who did that, it took me a few minutes to realise his new password was 'Compaq'
I can't believe how much this series has made me want a terminal that I have no real reason to own. It's such a striking object. I might try to get one and connect it to a Raspberry Pi and make house guests sign a guestbook on it.
I have a Wyse 60 I was lucky enough to be given several years ago and I did more or less that, connecting it to a RPi. I'm nostalgic about the Wyse 60 because the local library had a bunch of them for accessing the card catalog when I was a kid.
Hi Adrain, always excellent videos. A thought, not for now or the forseeable future but an added string to your bow:
What to do if you have a machine with a monitor you really want to get running but you just can't source a CRT? Yes the obvious answer is to use a suitbly-sized LCD and appropriate driver, but we all know how janky that ends up looking... besides who wants to cut the bezel of a much loved retro machine?
I have a plan that worked very well for a Mac SE/30 of mine:
1) Source all the stuff required to get a suitable LCD to work with the system.
2) Buy a nice and thin sheet of light to medium smoked plexiglass. Cut a good bit larger than the apeture, *then* remember to remove the film from *both* sides.
3) Fully dismantle your CRT down to the tube only. Empty a kitchen oven large enough for the tube to stand on it's neck...
4) Then rig up a heat-proof jig that the tube can be attached to, such that it will stand screen-up exactly strait.
5) Take a thick paper kitchen towel or thin felt, thoroughly dampen but not sopping wet, and lay over the screen, without any creases!
6) Put the whole thing in your oven and very slowly raise the temperature over about 30-60mis to about 60-80c (sorry, I'm not a collonial)
7) When the screen is up to temperature carefully heat the plexiglass with a hair dryer / heat gun until it's just starting to get soft, taking care not to scratch it!
8) Open the oven, place the plexiglass over the screen (leaving the towel / felt in place) and encourage it to flop a bit.
9) At this point you might be very licky, but chances are you will need to return the whole thing to the oven and repeatedly encourage the plexigalss to form over the screen...
10) What you are after is for the plexiglass to perfectly form over the screen (without creases, and avoid thouching it while hot!)...
11) ...Encourage the corners to droop over the screen's mounting lugs as closely as you can without risking damage to the soft plastic.
12) When you have done as much as you dare, make sure to leave the whole thing to fully cool naturally in the oven.
Once all is ready you should be able to peal your formed plexiglass from the CRT without harm. Depending on how you did you may need to polish out scuff-marks or the weave of your interface cloth if you chose poorly. Cut the plexiglass with a Dremmel about 1/4 - 1/2 inch larger than the screen all round (I can do Imperial) and drill out the lugs.
The whole thing should mount perfectly in the bezel of the monitor - hurrah!
Next, offer up your LCD with a bit of hot glue to a couple of corners and fiddle until it looks right from the front. Then go ham with more hot glue or epoxy to seal around all the edges - done!
Depending on how much light gets in to the monitor case you may need to add some mat-black card to our 'LCD mounting solution' arround the bezel of the LCD, especially if it's very shiny.
I hope you'll agree the result looks surprisingly good, and as long as you chose perspex / plexiglass with a light to medium smoke it will pass casual observation, even to those using the machine... as long as they aren't too familliar with real CRT's or the system so butchered. Of course LCD drivers often have give-away boot screens that can't be switched off, but not much can be done about that!
Just to prove it wasn't a fluke, after the SE/30 I pulled the tube out of a dead (I think) 12in Apple II B/W monitor and performed the same trick. With lots of spare room inside I mounted my daughter's RC2014 behind the screen - the whole thing now looks like a terminal running CP/M when it's not doing more 'exciting' things.
Maybe you'll never need to try this, maybe you will. I hope these instructions helpf someone some day.
Interesting mod, I wondered about doing something similar with plexiglass, but somehow frosting the backside, then using one of those cheap low powered LED projectors to throw an image on the screen from behind, that way you'd have a proper curved image, the thing that gives it away immediately to me that an LCD hack has been performed - it's a fake!
NASA rebuilt the old Apollo missions control room, but it only took me 5 secs to spot the fake screens, there has to be a better way.
As for the startup junk on LCD screens, you could put a timer on the backlight, this would both kind of emulate the slow start of a real CRT, and hide the controllers messages.
22:53 - FYI: the image size doesn’t go as far top to bottom and side to side; lowering the anode voltage would allow the image to grow a bit (assuming there is any adjustment for the anode voltage). But then you get an even dimmer picture, so you will probably be best off leaving this alone.
E-waste brought back to life with a new purpose.
It's wild to see the "desire" curve of devices... Buy New, sell used, give away for free, nobody will take it for free, in the dumpster it goes, oh I have to PAY to get rid of this!!? I'll still sneak it in a dumpster! And then this is collectable because it's now rare even though hundreds of thousands were built, but most were destroyed unless they survived buried in a corner closet for 40 years and modern day e waste policy didn't kill it.
I remember being asked if I wanted a "computer" only to see it was a terminal and say no... But thankfully I never declined something as old as this, just 80's WYSE terminals.
Great job as usual! Thanks for sharing your experience with us!
Very satisfying!
PVA is used as water-soluble support material in 3D printing.
It seemingly does take a lot of time to seep through. "shango066" let it soak over 2 months until the PVA was completely separated (it turned into a rubber-like consistency). From his video, i get that he did not check often, though. Slow but safe.
You’re right
21:10 - the faceplate curvature is probably quite different between the two CRTs that you have there; the original with the extra panel on the face would have a larger curvature, and the replacement CRT shows that by not being as snug to the bezel.
Awesome job Adrian!
I still suggest using a ceramic infered heat lamp. the kind used for keeping reptiles warm. with a cheap lamp hood you could aim a specific amount of directed heat at the screen and it would help remove that cover. idk if a heat gun is a good idea
Just put washers as spacers on the CRT mounting screws, this will slide the screen in the exact direction toward the cover bezel. Whereas if you slide from the motherboard, it will not slide to the normal axle of the screen.
I would have assumed you could have soaked the front of the tube in something like acetone to dissolve or soften the glue on the safety glass and remove the risk of implosion. Oh hey you got the replacement working, nice one!
What a great series this has been! Would you consider doing a short video of setting the terminal up to work with some old PCs or going online to communicate with a BBS?
Glad you found a compatible CRT. Those things are getting to be unobtanium these days.
it's worth noting that doing a cataract removal isn't hard, just tedious. Careful use of a heat gun will melt the adhesive attaching the lens, so it can be removed, disposed of, and you can re-apply the lens with rubber sealant.
I love the look of it working when you had the cover off. Is there any safe way you could do that? Perhaps a plexiglass cover?
You need to dial-in to Usagi's Centurion.. :)
Maybe put some washer between the tabs and chassis to bring the tube further forward. You may need longer screws, though.
That thing looks amazing with its new CRT. Nice job! ❤
I just noticed that there is an auto audio translation available for this video (I didn’t even knew that it existed). I must say that I’m pretty impressed with the quality of the French translation.
If the new CRT seems a bit tired, just let it run for a few hours and it'll probably improve. This is very common with CRTs that haven't been used for a while.
I think you should move deflection coils in axis with the tube's neck to "zoom" the image. There is too much border around.
This is the first time I can recall coming across a CRT that physically fit, shared the same neck size and would not work. I've done a lot of tube swaps, mostly in arcade monitors but some computer monitors too and in every case I can recall it pretty much just worked. Had a couple color tubes I couldn't converge as well as I'd have liked but mono tubes are easy. Maybe older tubes had more differences? BTW I really like that you properly diagnose things rather than just shooting the parts cannon at them. Several times I've had to fix things that somebody screwed up by shotgun replacing all the electrolytic capacitors. The worst is when they replace top quality parts with cheap no-name stuff that fails before the original part would have. Every part that gets removed is another opportunity for an error to sneak in. The only parts I shotgun replace are SMT electrolytics since they do so much damage when they leak.
Spacer/washers in the mounting screws for the tube may help with the gap
I just wanted to write the same :)
Great video!
Wow, that turned out great Adrian.😊
PVA glue is what white Elmer's glue is. I'm not an expert and there may be a variety of formulations that can still be considered PVA, but all glue labeled PVA that I've ever used is water soluble and I've been wondering throughout the series if the glue could be softened with water rather than risking heat.
A win for the books with this CRT there, I would say that now we can see (literally) what it can do, but that's kind of been done with the testing, but would be neat to see it in action as intended... :D
I wish I could have you help me fix my Toshiba 36a43. I think the IC went out.
Looks pretty good.
Nice glass teletype!
love this one, would be sweet to see it hooked up to the plexus p/20
Not a problem at all, gaps will work for better air cooling
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Nice Job !
Adrian, if the glue is water soluble and requires heat to remove: couldn't you just keep the crt suspended in boiling/hot water face down in a large metal pot for a bit and see if the safety glass just falls off?
Awesome Video ! Happy New 2025 Year !
Great video!, dumb question? would it make sense to use a tv tube tester to test the tube before installing?
might make for boring video if its bad, but could save alot of time and effort.
If warm water doesn't dissolve the glue, the PVA may have polymerized and have become resistant to water.
If that is the case, you may try soaking it in white vinegar, acetone, or methylated spirits.
Warm bath of white vinegar (dilute or concentrated, depending) seems to work best in most cases, but the results depend on the particular compound.
Nice work!
I would try soaking the old crt in acetone to get the front layer off, i have had luck doing this on other screens with similar issues. (note if you do this make sure the acetone bath does not come up the sides and get on the electrical coating.)
How many more videos are in Patreon which aren’t for general release as thinking of joining as ADB is definitely my favourite YT channel? 😊
cool video Adrian
Use a space heater to remove the adhesive off the glass and then use optical cement to readhere it
I'd still like to know how this terminal handles all the terminal functions with no microprocessor.
possible to connect to your 2x 68k workstation? regards from germany 😊
i was hopping for blow torch crt cataracts fix.. you will go medieval on that screen ;)
Looks like new! You can take a Coors on that!
I don't know if there is a difference between the UK and US, but we used PVA Glue in school because it was water based
And non toxic when eaten by small children 🤣
@@bikeforever2016 I didn't test that aspect of it 😁
Yup, same in the US. Here it's often referred to as "Elmer's Glue", or "white glue", and is often used in school, and for crafts, etc, because it's water-based, non-toxic and dries clear...
I wonder if you put like 1000g sand paper on a buffer wheel and grit down to finish the surface
I'm still amazed that they built the terminal without requiring a CPU. There were some very clever engineers back in the day !
Back then designing with discrete logic chips was like solving a puzzle. Some amazing designs were created. Now you just write some Verilog code and all the creativity is gone.
Well it's not doing any computational work...only echoing serial data to the screen and maybe some local scrollback but also tbf a cpu is just a lot of discrete logic circuits scaled down into one chip instead of many.
They built loads of stuff without CPUs back in that era. The Cinematronics arcade games had no CPU, they built one out of discrete logic. Games like Pong and Breakout had no CPU and no code, the video signal and game logic was generated with logic chips
Early dot matrix printers also didn’t have processors in them and used very similar column and row digital counters to sequence through font PROMS as the print head fired its pins. They even had font flip flops that would set/reset by control codes (DC1-DC4) to select different font PROMs. (All of those ASCII control codes originally had purpose) Centronics was an early manufacturer of dot matrix printers like that, and their name just stuck.
@ Dot matrix printers were the norm when I was a kid, I will never forget that incredibly obnoxious screeching grinding sound they made. I remember stuffing pillows around our printer in attempt to quiet it down a bit while printing a banner with Print Shop. On that note, tractor feed printers sure were cool for that, you could easily print a 10 foot long banner.
PVA is normally water soluble, maybe that is the cause of the cataract. PVA is used as a water soluble support material in 3D printing.
Was kinda hoping for some glorious terminal display action at the end
I don't think that tube would need all that much heat to remove. Usually you only need heat if there's a center in the tube that's still intact. That glue is entirely degraded. It should just come apart pretty easily. And it's a very small tube too. Very easy to work with.
And a new piece of history saved from the scrap heap. Well done! Now to put it to good use as a serial terminal connected to one of your other retro computers. Because you can. 😆
Yeah I had meant to dig out my Wifi modem to play with it some more -- but I totally forgot in this video.
UsagiElectric plans on setting up some "dial-up"/remote connections for his Centurion minicomputer, so Adrian could try connecting to that machine when it's ready.
PVA glue is definitely water soluble. Warm water and maybe a spritz of IPA should soften it.
If it's PVA, which is polyvinyl acetate, you should be able to dissolve or at least soften it using vinegar. Acetone should also work.
Reminds me of 80's movie computers.... and it's great that you got it going but unlike the c64's and the like, I can't see any use for it... bar an active museum piece....
Why do some CRTs have cataract while others dont?
Are CRTs with cataract safer (they wont implode)?
How can I prevent cataract from forming?
The earliest form of integral implosion protection was a second layer of glass bonded to the face of the tube. Earlier tubes had no integral protection so TV sets up into the 1950s had a separate layer of glass or plastic in front of the tube. Starting sometime in the 60s or 70s integral implosion protection in the form of a tension band around the perimeter of the tube face appeared and removed the need for the bonded glass. No bonding glue, no cataracts.
@James1095 ah I see
But why do all the cataract fixes I see online, use silicon with a gap (I read those fix arent perfect)
Why dont they reaply the glue like the factory did?
@@Veso266 Because applying an optically clear glue without any bubbles, dust or contamination is difficult. Maybe it's possible to do but I don't think I've ever seen it done.
@@James1095 what about if they would just retrofit tension band like newer crt do and discard the glass intierly?
Or does crt structure have to be altered for that somehow
@@Veso266 I don't know. Having been just a few feet away from a CRT implosion one time I would not personally want to attempt something that might cause me to witness another such event.
if the glue on the CRT is PVA based, it is water soluble (Elmers and other school glue brands are PVA and used to make slime for that reason)
although that might be a bad idea... idk
I would love to see if you can get the coating off of the original CRT. But I have a question. Have you ever had a CRT implode on you while working on it?
I haven't while working on one, but I did throw a dead 19" tube in a dumpster back in the day and forget to crack the pip off first. The bell of the tube hit the hinge of the dumpster lid and there was an enormous boom that left my ears ringing. Somehow I escaped unscathed but there was about a 10 foot radius of glass shards on the ground and my hands were shaking for about the next half hour. I've heard of guys having them implode trying to swap the mounting ears that are held on by the implosion band. I would not mess around with the implosion protection without a face shield and leather gloves.
Isn’t pva glue wood glue or Elmer’s glue?
PVA is a water soluble plastic (the one used in the school glue). It should be very easy to clean it with water. Not with alcohol.
Your status as the "Terminal Whisperer" has been confirmed.. Remember: "With great power comes great responsibility".
I think PVA (polyvinyl acetate) is also quite soluble in acetic acid. So maybe try white vinegar?
nice looking unit
if i was you i will put washers between the CRT mounting tabs and the chassis.
nothing can't be fixed with washers (i know normally we says nothing can't be fixed with duct tape but duct tape is disgusting!)
Bot sure if it's the same PVA as book binding glue that's acid-free, water-soluble, dries clear, and is usually considered an archival quality formula. But if so that's easy peasey. If not then it is likely closer to Elmer's glue which isn't necessarily acid free as evidenced by the yellowing of the paper it's used on. Though some sun-bleaching also occurs. So, not to sure.
Nice!
PVA glues are usually solvent based. Not water, because water chemically breaks down PVA (this is why PVA glues generally have a slight vinegar smell, water breaks down Polyvinyl Acetate into Polyvinyl Alcohol, also called PVA, and Acetic Acid, the acid in vinegar that gives it it's characteristic smell). You might get somewhere with the water bath of the front of the tube, as many PVA glues are relatively susceptible to attack by water. If you can create a chemically effective seal, you might also try mineral spirits. Only if you can be completely sure you can contain the vapor, though. For a job like this, soaking will take a long time to work through the glue, due to the narrow front and large depth of glue.
You should use it with your Plexus P/20.
What's up with the new red ring Adrian?
I was wondered that too. Judging from the first few seconds, it seems clear that he wants everyone to see the new ring as well. Any secret meaning? :)
@h0ist only Luminati knows that much about retro electronics.... 😄