So....just picked up a trick from you. Using a carabiner on the PFD to hold the pull tab of the skirt up is genius! I always disliked the skirt dangling and flopping around while walking around before or after a paddle. Thanks!
Ive been doing that for decades with just a regular carabiner. But NOLS made me switch it to a locking carabiner with the fear that on a self rescue it inadvertently clips itself to deck rigging…just an FYI.
That carabiner caught my attention in an earlier video and I tried the same setup with my skirt and PFD. Unfortunately, the way my PFD is designed, the carabiner is constantly making a pressure on my chest and it gets uncomfortable very quickly. Instead, I clipped an ordinary (non locking) carabiner on a loop installed in one of my PFD pocket. Once my skirt is installed on my kayak, I just stow the carabiner in the pocket and I don't have to worry about it clipping on a deck rigging.
Like you, I wear a spray skirt religiously and it gets HOT here in Hong Kong. I feel safer with a spray skirt but that fear you mentioned of getting stuck is real. I know many people don’t want to use the spray skirt because of that.
I always wear a spray skirt! Otherwise I will fill up the cockpit just by edging the kayak. And let us not talk about surfing or rolling. Living in Sweden we don't have many days where it's warm enough without one. Nice to see a NOLS instructor making videos. I've been on two NOLS expeditions in Alaska, got WFR and been working a bit for NOLS Scandinavia. Before the pandemic I was thinking of becoming a NOLS instructor, and now I'm to busy.
Used the spray skirt every single time, I don't know any different,years ago I have done wildwater kayaking in Austria and now , I have starting seakayaking in the Nederlands.
It depends on which boat I'm using, what I plan on doing, and the conditions. If I am in one of my folding boats or my FSK, they're not very practical or useful. If I plan on swimming or fishing from my kayak, they really get in the way and it's hard to take them off or put them on while on the water. I have different skirts for sun, touring and whitewater. Tools for the task.
For a sea kayaker in Ireland this question kind of makes no sense. The same is about wearing PFD. You just always wear them both. The only people I have seen in sit-in kayaks without spray deck/PFD are those who maybe doing it first-ish time in a rented rec type boat.
My wife and I both transitioned from a sit on to sea Kayaks in early January and get out most weekends and sometimes during the week. We do have cheap waterproof polyester skirts which are used to keep the cockpit dry overnight when camping. I have used it once to keep both the Sun and rain off my legs, but only the once. I don't really know if I need to invest in a neoprene skirt. It does get coldish but not that cold here in Australia. I Kayak on the Rivers and Lakes, it can get choppy on the bigger ones when the wind picks up, but to date we have been fine. I just need a push to spend the money. Can you provide that incentive? Love the use of the carabiner and love your channel.
Glad you mentioned entrapment as a fear. I've been experiencing that for a while now. I had an unfortunate event at a wet exit clinic where I got tangled in a paddle leash (which I no longer use, btw) and since then I use the skirt somewhat reluctantly. I do use it and will continue to, but the fear is still there. My solution is to take a wet exit/rescue class with a qualified instructor. Hopefully that will put an end to it. What do you think?
Practice practice practice…. And yeah, I am anti paddle leash. When I worked for REI I taught intro classes with 2 to 6 people, 2 to 4 classes a weekend, for…I dont know, 8 years. Hundreds of students. In that time I saw two people flip kayaks unintentionally. Both of them, complete novices, were out of the boat before I could even say anything. Similarly, in Alaska, much fewer classes, but way more students in a class, doing wet exits in 50 degree water. Never saw anyone get stuck in a boat. I am sure it happens, but I have never seen it happen.
I personally love my Immersion research shockwave, Ive tried other brands also. The NRS is good for the price but not great for me. Seals skirts are great quality and have many sizes for the right fit. At the moment I wear one all the time, unless it gets really hot, then I may cheat.
Toujours avec la jupe, une fois dans un roulage quelques secondes dans l’eau et me tromper avec la corde de secours et la boucle de ma jupe, la peur s’est installé jusqu’à la compréhension de mon erreur , et enfin pouvoir sortir de mon bateau
Hey Brett - love the channel. I do have the entrapment fear - I love. the sport. Should I consider a skirt eventhogh I have no rolling experience- Or should I learn to roll?
@@AdventureOtaku Climbing carabiners like the one you have are usually made of aluminum, so it will not rust. However, the most vulnerable parts are the hinge pin and the gate spring that are, most of the time, still made of regular metal, not even stainless steel. So these two little parts will most likely be the one that will degrade first if they often get in contact with salt water. Also, some carabiners (not yours) have a hook-shaped nose that catches a lot when trying to get the skirt loop in and out. It is better, like the one you have, to have a key-hole-shaped nose. The best carabiners for this use would be salling carabiners that are entirely made of marine grade (316) stainless steel and have a key-hole shaped nose.
Always. I don't want snakes falling into my kayak from overhanging tree branches.. Just kidding (mostly). I wear one for the reasons you mentioned. Always wearing a spray skirt also eliminates one decision from my trip planning. I wore one on a multi-day July river trip in Utah. Splashing water on it helped keep it tolerably cool underneath.
I've started wearing tights so I don't have to worry about sunscreen on my legs when I get out of the boat either, but yeah, it just feels totally wrong to be in a cockpit without a spray skirt on. My wife was doing her first exit practice with one a few weeks ago and I was a *little* bit worried because the used boat we found her has some really aggressive coaming, but even then she popped right out on her first try no problem at all
I refuse to kayak without a sprayskirt. Without a sprayskirt, I do not feel connected to my kayak, and therefore I become less comfortable maneuvering the kayak properly. By wearing a sprayskirt, I can more effectively lean, edge, and turn the kayak, thereby being a safer paddler. Without a sprayskirt, I consider it nigh on impossible to have effective control of my kayak. Fear of flipping is a real thing. Wet-exiting is an uncomfortable feeling, and becoming used to feeling the boat on top of you while your PFD wants to push you to the surface is a learned-behavior. Only by practicing can a person overcome fear of entrapment and fear of flipping. Practice wet-exits and overcoming fear of entrapment. Get wet, because the river/lake/wind/ocean doesn't care about your fear.
I think in the last 20 years I've only never order one "off the shelf" spray skirt. Its one of those times when I got so sick of trying to get it on and fit me right and kayak... I just gave up and order a custom spray skirt and never looked back. Now when I order a new kayak, I order a new spray skirt too. Its well worth the money if your using the same kayak all the time. And if your going to spend 300-400 on a paddle why not spend 100 on a good spray skirt too?
I use a spray skirt about half the time. When I do low risk rides with my family with very minimal splashes, I don't wear it, but I still bring it with me in a hatch in case the conditions worsen. I own an hybrid skirt composed of a neoprene tunnel and a more basic nylon deck. This is the most advanced skirt I can install on my kayak because I have a high backrest that prevents a full neoprene skirt from staying on correctly. I have two reasons for not wearing my skirt. First, the neoprene tunnel is making me very warn and sweaty on the chest, I don't think it is worth the discomfort during a low risk ride. Second, my kayak is equipped with a water bottle holder under the front deck, requiring me to undo the skirt everytime I want to take a sip of water, which gets pretty cumbersome. The bottle holder does a better job at holding the bottle than the deck rigging in rough conditions and during recovery maneuvers. In a nutshell, I always balance the risk and the practicality of wearing or not wearing it.
Coming from whitewater and currently considering touring (mainly lakes for exercise), I couldn’t imagine not having a skirt. The ability to just roll and cool off is just too valuable to me. Not to mention the many safety aspects in whitewater. Skirt is just a must, I hate swimming, being rescued, etc. I will roll that boat, a solid roll is the very best self rescue, and that requires a skirt. Depending on what kind of water you are paddling things can be more dangerous the second you exit a boat. Fear of entrapment? I think that comes more from a lack of knowledge about how to get out. If you can touch the cockpit rim anywhere, just run your hands forward to the tab. Screwed up and tucked the tab inside? Grab the center of the top of the skirt, twist and/or pull inwards. The sides of the skirt will pop right off the cockpit rim. Keep calm, you’ll come out. I’ve even forgot to pull my skirt tab once when I was still a bit of a noob and just punched out. The skirt popped right off the rim… It’s just a matter of familiarizing oneself with how to use the gear safely and properly and then realizing the actual risk instead of the perceived risk.
You are 100% right. I will also say, spending time in in North Carolina (where whitewater is huge) I can say WW paddlers view rolling differently than sea kayakers. Sea kayakers talk about rolling like it is some mystical thing some people can do, while WW paddlers treat it like just a thing everyone does.. A much healthier approach.
I only wear a spray skirt if its pretty windy creating a swell , cold or if i am kayaking with my dog on the back for comfort and safety reasons . although I usually pack one just incase the weather chucks a wobbly
Fear of entrapment diminishes with good instruction and practice. I actually feel unsafe paddling without a sprayskirt. If I get hot, I roll or get out of the kayak and dip in the water (usually wear a semi-dry suit, even if it’s warm out).
Entrapment was definitely a concern of mine initially. I'm a claustrophobic person in general, I don't even ride the large freight elevator at work it's so bad. I went to my first wet exit pool class full of confidence and eager to learn a new skill. However when I slid into that sea kayak cockpit for the first time... Definitely not comfortable. I still don't like it but lm able to wet exit well enough. I think I'd benefit from some water time just swimming around and underneath to get comfortable with the kayak upside down. The journey continues
Another good reason to wear a skirt is that a Greenland paddle is really wet. I have a gallon or more of water in my lap if I don't wear one. BTW: Houston is out for November
No worries on November. I wasn’t expecting it to work out. Valiant effort though. On the Greenland effect you win a prize. You are the first Greenland paddler I have ever met who will say something bad about the Greenland stick. A good point about the wetness. I forgot as it’s been a while
The first kayaking skill I was taught after basic paddling was pulling the skirt loop for a wet exit and I’ve never felt trapped. I wear my skirt 99% of the time partly because I enjoy the feeling of being connected to the boat and the skirt completes that. The 1% is when I’m out for a lazy summer paddle on calm water and want to enjoy a little breeze. The skirt also makes a nice little pad to set things when I’m using my camera.
I always use a spray skirt. Why? Safety, but also because it gives me options. If it starts raining and I want to keep kayaking, or I need to perform a rescue, want to roll or practice high braces, or want to play in wind or waves a spray skirt allows for that.
I find it more comfortable with a spray skirt, and not just for the reasons you mentioned (sun protection, warm in winter..etc) which are very true and valid but also I find i'm more comfortable doing maneuvers that require a hard edge if i'm not thinking about the rush of cold water that might enter as i do it. With my boat if i put it on a hard edge, the combing is pretty much at the waterline
At my main club (I belong to two clubs) we aren't allowed to use a spay deck until one of the coaches has seen us do a wet exit with one on (invert, bang on the sides of the boat three times and then pull the deck and exit). Since I did that, I have not paddled without one. It's part of being one with the boat.
I have to say I think this really speaks to making people afraid. "I can't do it until someone says I can do it...." I know they are doing it with both instruction and liability in mind but I think it's detrimental.
Keep in mind regarding entrapment that spray skirts are much harder to get off in glass boats than plastic and require you actually pulling them away from the coaming.
Well everything is harder to get off than the skirt on my delta. But I’ve done “no grab loop” wet exits with fiberglass boats at NOLS. I think it is safe to say there is variation.
I agree with all your reasons for wearing a skirt. I find the boat gets very hot in summer with a sprayskirt and I tend to refrain from putting it on. I always wear one in windy, choppy conditions and in the rain.
I definitely wear a spray skirt. Mine is a nylon tropical type. It’s also a good place to put your map or a snack since it has a pocket and lash points.
I have worn a Spray deck pretty much since I started paddling my own boat and the Club boats. I am currently looking for a better spray deck that doesn't dump a load of water down my back. My Daughter will not wear one, as she is scarred of not being able to get out if she capsizes. Not helped by me capsizing twice in front of her on the Club Induction weeks. The only time I haven't seen you with a Spray Deck is when you were paddling a Recreation Boat in one of your videos. There was your issue with your Spray Deck that you found a WW Spray Deck worked better with a bit of fettling of the combing is memory serves me rightly. Like yourself I have to work to stay in the boat if I capsize as just drop out without having to pop the deck first, my weight easily over comes that. I have had to deal with a lad that rolled and panicked and locked his legs so I had to pull his boat back upright. He will not wear as spray deck now and he looks agitated if asked to wear one. Our Club don't push them, but if you want to progress through the Paddle Awards then you do have to wear one. I am very calm when it comes to capsizing and doing rescues, possibly down to my love of water and spend time snorkeling and diving down within my ears limits. Even when I capsized twice in a fast flowing river I was calm. The Voices shouting from the bank didn't sound so calm though. Even though one of those I was pinned up against my boat and a tree. I am lucky in that respect. Very interesting topic Brett, and one that gets talked about at the Club a fair bit.
Yes! Once in a rec boat, and once when I had a camera below deck and needed the light. I think it was an edging video. I am going to do a video about the entrapment fear.
@@AdventureOtaku That will be a very interesting topic to cover, as over coming fear can be quite debilitating for some.I have seen that with my Oldest Daughter that had a family dog go for her a couple of time when she was a baby, so no physical memory the events one at 12 mouths old and the last a 16 mouths old. She was scared witless when a dog was near. We were on what is called by some Holy Island in the North of England, when a Jack Russel terrier came bolting out of a Cottage and straight up to my Daughter. Te scream she let out was like nothing I have heard before. The Poor dog and its Owner didn't know what to do. it was a very close resemblance to the family Dog that was owned by a Great Great Aunt of my Wife's. a very dear old lady and we could bring ourselves to say anything to her about her dog. We explain what had happened to the Lady. With a lot of gentle coxing we managed to get her to be near dogs without panicking and eventually even walk a friends dog. Which end up with us getting a Dog of our own. now we have Two Border Collies. The First we rehomed after we had o change our mind on getting a Puppy as she stayed with a friend of hers that had a 10 week old Black Lab, and it scarred her, so we got our first direct from a farmer, as he was scarred of sheep so didn't work.
I sometimes wear one for reasons you stated, and don’t forget the biting flies in the summer months, keeps them out too. I should wear one more often, have been caught a few times with the wind coming up and even paddling into the wind, more of the water drips from the paddle get inside or on you, if not wearing one. The first few wet exit practices are good confidence builders to get over the entrapment fears. I own two different skirts for my Deltas, the “Rand” neoprene skirts like L6 King or Ace, but I also find a nylon (seals coastal tour) in the 1.7 size fits OK on the Deltas and I use that when it gets hot out (I haven’t rolled with that one to know whether it stays on or not). I agree some paddle strokes and maneuvers are safer (brace turns, etc) and others really can’t be performed without a skirt (sculling brace, etc).
@@AdventureOtaku The L6 King stays on fine, even during practicing wet exits. Had to soak it in warm water when new, just to stretch it enough to go on easily, been fine ever since (I got the L cockpit size and XL tunnel size due to my 40 waist). The Coastal Tour 1.7 stays on fine when paddling but I have not tried capsizing or wet exits with that one yet - it does come off the coaming if I raise my knees from the inside, if that’s any indication. I can’t roll yet, can’t find an instructor or class close by, all local pool sessions during winter months are whitewater boats only.
A bit surprised that you just DRAG your boat back on shore across the gravel but I guess its not really a problem but seems more abrasive than I would want to be to mine
It was very little gravel, mostly grass… It was unweighted…. Im hard on boats… sometimes I’ll pick it up… I was lazy…. Ive also been paddling thermoformed deltas since 2009, so I am super comfortable with how much abuse they can take. I wouldn’t have done that with a composite boat.
I'm going out this afternoon in Wisconsin with air temp: 70-75 F, and water temp: hand-numbing cold elbow deep after 4 min! I'm wearing a skirt (always do anyways to avoid wet lap).
@@AdventureOtaku So I did go out yesterday and the air temp was 78-80F, and the water had warmed up to a fantastic 66-68F! About a 10 deg rise in only a week. I'm guessing the warm weather with torrential rains had an impact. Lake level up significantly and today another 2.3 inches of rain! I'm starting to wonder if the semi-dry top is needed at this time. It was still tolerable for a 4 hour paddle covering a leisurely 9 miles (including 1 mile upstream faster than normal current)
Agree the fear of get stuck in the kayak because of your spray skirt is very exaggerated. BUT hav read of a couple of accidents with drowning. Where the paddler was upside down and stuck in the skirt.There was how ever some dispute on if the paddler had got some heart problems and then flipped. But I se some instructors demonstrating they can not kick the skirt of, if you do not reach the handle to drag it open. So there is a possibility. BUT then you use a very firm neoprene skirt. I have one from Palm (think it is the Palm Roanoke). The size is right for mye kayak, but the first time I mounted it, I needed to use ratchet straps to be able to stretch it long enough to mount it.
I would love to see the details on accidents that involved drowning. Most skirts you can open with your knee... mine might be too tight for that, but I'll try it when the water warms up.
@@AdventureOtaku If I find the articles I'll post them. One of the lessons in the kayaking beginners course is, how to pull loose the skirt. And it is emphasized that many skirts won't come off if the strap is not pulled. But I understand the tighter skirts make it less likely to get water staying on the skirt, and it holds you better when rolling. Many youtube videos demonstrating how firm/tight the spray skirts are. ua-cam.com/video/ayRmrWAqoks/v-deo.html
@@kimmokonttinen5101 that video is probably the tightest skirt I have ever seen. But judging by the Greenland hand paddle (I forget what they are called) I think that tightness is by choice, as that person is clearly doing Greenland rolls. In my experience, even serious tourers, don’t use a skirt that tight. You can usually pop the skirt with a knee. As I said, I think there is a lot of variation, both between kayaks and skirt combinations.
I wear a spray skirt all the time for the same reasons you've listed. As you've stated I've never been stuck upside down because of my spray skirt. However I have been stuck in my kayak upside down because I left my helmet between my legs which wedges them in place. Lesson learned there lol.
This is interesting because I am considering a video about “the myth of entrapment.” NOLS has students regularly have gear int he cockpit, including what is described as a “lap bag” with snacks and sun block and such. It usually ends up on the floor of the cockpit. But NOLS has never had an issue with entrapment. Yours might be the first I have heard of from gear in the cockpit.
@@AdventureOtaku could be that I have a smaller cockpit so it was easier for the helmet to lock my legs in, deck height is 11.5" and my helmet is a L/XL. Obviously I wasn't completely trapped or I wouldn't be writing this now, but I did have to force myself out fairly hard. However I would personally advise against keeping anything large inside the cockpit at least, a small bag seems fine but a rigid large helmet not so much.
I've paddled and owned probably 2 dozen sea kayaks since 1983. For safety I have always outfitted all of my boats to be seaworthy without a sprayskirt. In fact they are actually more stable when the cockpit is flooded -- however they will be slower with the extra weight. (Perfectly round bottom kayaks are an exception to this). In case of a failed roll -- I use an underwater re-enter and roll -- and immediately start paddling out of the danger zone -- no need to pump out, This also allows me to safely leave open the spray skirt on warm days.
I was never good at the re-enter and roll… I would be curious to see how much lower my boat is in the water with the cockpit flooded. Maybe I will try that this summer.
@@AdventureOtaku I've found that off the shelf sea kayaks are not seaworthy with the cockpit flooded and must be pumped out asap. To make a sea kayak with a flooded cockpit workable in a sea I add a lateral bulkhead running from the center of the forward bulkhead to the front edge of the coaming and tapering down to the center of the seat. And I glass in front and rear bulkheads so that the cockpit volume is reduced as much as possible. The lateral bulkhead prevents water from sloshing side to side and actually contributes to stability when flooded.
So....just picked up a trick from you.
Using a carabiner on the PFD to hold the pull tab of the skirt up is genius! I always disliked the skirt dangling and flopping around while walking around before or after a paddle.
Thanks!
I need to get a carabiner too! Such a great idea
Ive been doing that for decades with just a regular carabiner. But NOLS made me switch it to a locking carabiner with the fear that on a self rescue it inadvertently clips itself to deck rigging…just an FYI.
@@AdventureOtaku that’s a great tip.. thanks for sharing
That carabiner caught my attention in an earlier video and I tried the same setup with my skirt and PFD. Unfortunately, the way my PFD is designed, the carabiner is constantly making a pressure on my chest and it gets uncomfortable very quickly. Instead, I clipped an ordinary (non locking) carabiner on a loop installed in one of my PFD pocket. Once my skirt is installed on my kayak, I just stow the carabiner in the pocket and I don't have to worry about it clipping on a deck rigging.
Every. Single. Time. I didn’t use one my first season as I couldn’t afford one, but I never go out skirtless these days
Yay!
Like you, I wear a spray skirt religiously and it gets HOT here in Hong Kong. I feel safer with a spray skirt but that fear you mentioned of getting stuck is real. I know many people don’t want to use the spray skirt because of that.
Yes. I am going to do a video about fear of entrapment.
I always wear a spray skirt! Otherwise I will fill up the cockpit just by edging the kayak. And let us not talk about surfing or rolling.
Living in Sweden we don't have many days where it's warm enough without one.
Nice to see a NOLS instructor making videos. I've been on two NOLS expeditions in Alaska, got WFR and been working a bit for NOLS Scandinavia. Before the pandemic I was thinking of becoming a NOLS instructor, and now I'm to busy.
I tell people Alaska is my drug of choice. I would love to paddle in Scandinavia though. It’s amazing there.
Used the spray skirt every single time, I don't know any different,years ago I have done wildwater kayaking in Austria and now , I have starting seakayaking in the Nederlands.
Yup. It feels weird to me when I (On the very rare occasions) dont wear one.
It depends on which boat I'm using, what I plan on doing, and the conditions.
If I am in one of my folding boats or my FSK, they're not very practical or useful.
If I plan on swimming or fishing from my kayak, they really get in the way and it's hard to take them off or put them on while on the water.
I have different skirts for sun, touring and whitewater.
Tools for the task.
I get it.
For a sea kayaker in Ireland this question kind of makes no sense. The same is about wearing PFD. You just always wear them both. The only people I have seen in sit-in kayaks without spray deck/PFD are those who maybe doing it first-ish time in a rented rec type boat.
Yeah, I mentioned elsewhere there is definitely an environmental factor.
My wife and I both transitioned from a sit on to sea Kayaks in early January and get out most weekends and sometimes during the week.
We do have cheap waterproof polyester skirts which are used to keep the cockpit dry overnight when camping.
I have used it once to keep both the Sun and rain off my legs, but only the once.
I don't really know if I need to invest in a neoprene skirt.
It does get coldish but not that cold here in Australia.
I Kayak on the Rivers and Lakes, it can get choppy on the bigger ones when the wind picks up, but to date we have been fine.
I just need a push to spend the money. Can you provide that incentive?
Love the use of the carabiner and love your channel.
Well you don’t need a neoprene one. But the added safety I think is worth it.
Glad you mentioned entrapment as a fear. I've been experiencing that for a while now. I had an unfortunate event at a wet exit clinic where I got tangled in a paddle leash (which I no longer use, btw) and since then I use the skirt somewhat reluctantly. I do use it and will continue to, but the fear is still there. My solution is to take a wet exit/rescue class with a qualified instructor. Hopefully that will put an end to it. What do you think?
Practice practice practice…. And yeah, I am anti paddle leash. When I worked for REI I taught intro classes with 2 to 6 people, 2 to 4 classes a weekend, for…I dont know, 8 years. Hundreds of students. In that time I saw two people flip kayaks unintentionally. Both of them, complete novices, were out of the boat before I could even say anything. Similarly, in Alaska, much fewer classes, but way more students in a class, doing wet exits in 50 degree water. Never saw anyone get stuck in a boat. I am sure it happens, but I have never seen it happen.
I personally love my Immersion research shockwave, Ive tried other brands also. The NRS is good for the price but not great for me. Seals skirts are great quality and have many sizes for the right fit. At the moment I wear one all the time, unless it gets really hot, then I may cheat.
I’m using the shockwave too. Great skirt.
Looking forward to the 'entrapment' vid.
September 1!
Toujours avec la jupe, une fois dans un roulage quelques secondes dans l’eau et me tromper avec la corde de secours et la boucle de ma jupe, la peur s’est installé jusqu’à la compréhension de mon erreur , et enfin pouvoir sortir de mon bateau
Oui, cette peur est réelle. Je vais faire une vidéo à ce sujet.
Hey Brett - love the channel. I do have the entrapment fear - I love. the sport. Should I consider a skirt eventhogh I have no rolling experience- Or should I learn to roll?
Neither. You should find an instructor and simply work oin wet exits. First with no skirt and then with a skirt.
@@AdventureOtaku I agree with Brett. I’m practicing exit and recovery with my new boat. Each boat is a different experience.
Where did you get the vest carabiner that you attached the spray skirt handle to?
It’s a standard auto locking carabiner that I think is made by black diamond…. It isn’t “marine” but so far it is holding up fine.
@@AdventureOtaku Climbing carabiners like the one you have are usually made of aluminum, so it will not rust. However, the most vulnerable parts are the hinge pin and the gate spring that are, most of the time, still made of regular metal, not even stainless steel. So these two little parts will most likely be the one that will degrade first if they often get in contact with salt water.
Also, some carabiners (not yours) have a hook-shaped nose that catches a lot when trying to get the skirt loop in and out. It is better, like the one you have, to have a key-hole-shaped nose.
The best carabiners for this use would be salling carabiners that are entirely made of marine grade (316) stainless steel and have a key-hole shaped nose.
Skirt is a must.
Agreed
Always. I don't want snakes falling into my kayak from overhanging tree branches..
Just kidding (mostly). I wear one for the reasons you mentioned. Always wearing a spray skirt also eliminates one decision from my trip planning.
I wore one on a multi-day July river trip in Utah. Splashing water on it helped keep it tolerably cool underneath.
Someone told me the snake thing can happen int he Everglades…. Which is why I have never paddled in the Everglades.
I've started wearing tights so I don't have to worry about sunscreen on my legs when I get out of the boat either, but yeah, it just feels totally wrong to be in a cockpit without a spray skirt on. My wife was doing her first exit practice with one a few weeks ago and I was a *little* bit worried because the used boat we found her has some really aggressive coaming, but even then she popped right out on her first try no problem at all
Next time see if she can do it without the grab loop. Either by pushing the coaming away or using a knee to pop it from the inside.
I refuse to kayak without a sprayskirt. Without a sprayskirt, I do not feel connected to my kayak, and therefore I become less comfortable maneuvering the kayak properly. By wearing a sprayskirt, I can more effectively lean, edge, and turn the kayak, thereby being a safer paddler. Without a sprayskirt, I consider it nigh on impossible to have effective control of my kayak. Fear of flipping is a real thing. Wet-exiting is an uncomfortable feeling, and becoming used to feeling the boat on top of you while your PFD wants to push you to the surface is a learned-behavior. Only by practicing can a person overcome fear of entrapment and fear of flipping. Practice wet-exits and overcoming fear of entrapment. Get wet, because the river/lake/wind/ocean doesn't care about your fear.
I totally agree.
I think in the last 20 years I've only never order one "off the shelf" spray skirt. Its one of those times when I got so sick of trying to get it on and fit me right and kayak... I just gave up and order a custom spray skirt and never looked back. Now when I order a new kayak, I order a new spray skirt too. Its well worth the money if your using the same kayak all the time. And if your going to spend 300-400 on a paddle why not spend 100 on a good spray skirt too?
Who do you order from?
I use a spray skirt about half the time. When I do low risk rides with my family with very minimal splashes, I don't wear it, but I still bring it with me in a hatch in case the conditions worsen. I own an hybrid skirt composed of a neoprene tunnel and a more basic nylon deck. This is the most advanced skirt I can install on my kayak because I have a high backrest that prevents a full neoprene skirt from staying on correctly.
I have two reasons for not wearing my skirt. First, the neoprene tunnel is making me very warn and sweaty on the chest, I don't think it is worth the discomfort during a low risk ride. Second, my kayak is equipped with a water bottle holder under the front deck, requiring me to undo the skirt everytime I want to take a sip of water, which gets pretty cumbersome. The bottle holder does a better job at holding the bottle than the deck rigging in rough conditions and during recovery maneuvers.
In a nutshell, I always balance the risk and the practicality of wearing or not wearing it.
And I think balance is great. As long as youre thinking about it. I dont feel comfortable NOT wearing one.
Coming from whitewater and currently considering touring (mainly lakes for exercise), I couldn’t imagine not having a skirt. The ability to just roll and cool off is just too valuable to me. Not to mention the many safety aspects in whitewater. Skirt is just a must, I hate swimming, being rescued, etc. I will roll that boat, a solid roll is the very best self rescue, and that requires a skirt. Depending on what kind of water you are paddling things can be more dangerous the second you exit a boat.
Fear of entrapment? I think that comes more from a lack of knowledge about how to get out. If you can touch the cockpit rim anywhere, just run your hands forward to the tab. Screwed up and tucked the tab inside? Grab the center of the top of the skirt, twist and/or pull inwards. The sides of the skirt will pop right off the cockpit rim. Keep calm, you’ll come out. I’ve even forgot to pull my skirt tab once when I was still a bit of a noob and just punched out. The skirt popped right off the rim… It’s just a matter of familiarizing oneself with how to use the gear safely and properly and then realizing the actual risk instead of the perceived risk.
You are 100% right. I will also say, spending time in in North Carolina (where whitewater is huge) I can say WW paddlers view rolling differently than sea kayakers. Sea kayakers talk about rolling like it is some mystical thing some people can do, while WW paddlers treat it like just a thing everyone does.. A much healthier approach.
I only wear a spray skirt if its pretty windy creating a swell , cold or if i am kayaking with my dog on the back for comfort and safety reasons . although I usually pack one just incase the weather chucks a wobbly
“Chucks a wobbly” is a great term I plan on adopting. Thank you.
Fear of entrapment diminishes with good instruction and practice. I actually feel unsafe paddling without a sprayskirt. If I get hot, I roll or get out of the kayak and dip in the water (usually wear a semi-dry suit, even if it’s warm out).
I wont say I feel unsafe without it, but it definitely is weird.
Entrapment was definitely a concern of mine initially. I'm a claustrophobic person in general, I don't even ride the large freight elevator at work it's so bad. I went to my first wet exit pool class full of confidence and eager to learn a new skill. However when I slid into that sea kayak cockpit for the first time... Definitely not comfortable. I still don't like it but lm able to wet exit well enough. I think I'd benefit from some water time just swimming around and underneath to get comfortable with the kayak upside down. The journey continues
Always. Keep it up.
Another good reason to wear a skirt is that a Greenland paddle is really wet. I have a gallon or more of water in my lap if I don't wear one.
BTW: Houston is out for November
No worries on November. I wasn’t expecting it to work out. Valiant effort though. On the Greenland effect you win a prize. You are the first Greenland paddler I have ever met who will say something bad about the Greenland stick. A good point about the wetness. I forgot as it’s been a while
The first kayaking skill I was taught after basic paddling was pulling the skirt loop for a wet exit and I’ve never felt trapped. I wear my skirt 99% of the time partly because I enjoy the feeling of being connected to the boat and the skirt completes that. The 1% is when I’m out for a lazy summer paddle on calm water and want to enjoy a little breeze. The skirt also makes a nice little pad to set things when I’m using my camera.
For me it’s a great place for a map.
I always use a spray skirt. Why? Safety, but also because it gives me options. If it starts raining and I want to keep kayaking, or I need to perform a rescue, want to roll or practice high braces, or want to play in wind or waves a spray skirt allows for that.
Exactly
I find it more comfortable with a spray skirt, and not just for the reasons you mentioned (sun protection, warm in winter..etc) which are very true and valid but also I find i'm more comfortable doing maneuvers that require a hard edge if i'm not thinking about the rush of cold water that might enter as i do it.
With my boat if i put it on a hard edge, the combing is pretty much at the waterline
An excellent point. Low brace turn is like that for me.
At my main club (I belong to two clubs) we aren't allowed to use a spay deck until one of the coaches has seen us do a wet exit with one on (invert, bang on the sides of the boat three times and then pull the deck and exit). Since I did that, I have not paddled without one. It's part of being one with the boat.
I have to say I think this really speaks to making people afraid. "I can't do it until someone says I can do it...." I know they are doing it with both instruction and liability in mind but I think it's detrimental.
Keep in mind regarding entrapment that spray skirts are much harder to get off in glass boats than plastic and require you actually pulling them away from the coaming.
Well everything is harder to get off than the skirt on my delta. But I’ve done “no grab loop” wet exits with fiberglass boats at NOLS. I think it is safe to say there is variation.
I'm a sometime skirt wearer. Recently I'm wearing it to practice exits and self recovery with a new kayak. Great topic today and keen to see more.
thanks for watching.
I wear my light one on calm water but I use my neoprene one on big water and rivers thx for sharing
thanks for watching!
I agree with all your reasons for wearing a skirt. I find the boat gets very hot in summer with a sprayskirt and I tend to refrain from putting it on. I always wear one in windy, choppy conditions and in the rain.
Yeah, it definitely gets warm in there on a hot summer day. I still wear it.
I definitely wear a spray skirt. Mine is a nylon tropical type. It’s also a good place to put your map or a snack since it has a pocket and lash points.
I haven’t had one with a pocket in a long time….
I always wear a skirt and have no fear of getting trapped as long as I can see my pull tab.
thanks for watching
I have worn a Spray deck pretty much since I started paddling my own boat and the Club boats. I am currently looking for a better spray deck that doesn't dump a load of water down my back. My Daughter will not wear one, as she is scarred of not being able to get out if she capsizes. Not helped by me capsizing twice in front of her on the Club Induction weeks.
The only time I haven't seen you with a Spray Deck is when you were paddling a Recreation Boat in one of your videos. There was your issue with your Spray Deck that you found a WW Spray Deck worked better with a bit of fettling of the combing is memory serves me rightly.
Like yourself I have to work to stay in the boat if I capsize as just drop out without having to pop the deck first, my weight easily over comes that. I have had to deal with a lad that rolled and panicked and locked his legs so I had to pull his boat back upright. He will not wear as spray deck now and he looks agitated if asked to wear one. Our Club don't push them, but if you want to progress through the Paddle Awards then you do have to wear one. I am very calm when it comes to capsizing and doing rescues, possibly down to my love of water and spend time snorkeling and diving down within my ears limits. Even when I capsized twice in a fast flowing river I was calm. The Voices shouting from the bank didn't sound so calm though. Even though one of those I was pinned up against my boat and a tree. I am lucky in that respect.
Very interesting topic Brett, and one that gets talked about at the Club a fair bit.
Yes! Once in a rec boat, and once when I had a camera below deck and needed the light. I think it was an edging video. I am going to do a video about the entrapment fear.
@@AdventureOtaku That will be a very interesting topic to cover, as over coming fear can be quite debilitating for some.I have seen that with my Oldest Daughter that had a family dog go for her a couple of time when she was a baby, so no physical memory the events one at 12 mouths old and the last a 16 mouths old. She was scared witless when a dog was near. We were on what is called by some Holy Island in the North of England, when a Jack Russel terrier came bolting out of a Cottage and straight up to my Daughter. Te scream she let out was like nothing I have heard before. The Poor dog and its Owner didn't know what to do. it was a very close resemblance to the family Dog that was owned by a Great Great Aunt of my Wife's. a very dear old lady and we could bring ourselves to say anything to her about her dog. We explain what had happened to the Lady. With a lot of gentle coxing we managed to get her to be near dogs without panicking and eventually even walk a friends dog. Which end up with us getting a Dog of our own. now we have Two Border Collies. The First we rehomed after we had o change our mind on getting a Puppy as she stayed with a friend of hers that had a 10 week old Black Lab, and it scarred her, so we got our first direct from a farmer, as he was scarred of sheep so didn't work.
I sometimes wear one for reasons you stated, and don’t forget the biting flies in the summer months, keeps them out too. I should wear one more often, have been caught a few times with the wind coming up and even paddling into the wind, more of the water drips from the paddle get inside or on you, if not wearing one. The first few wet exit practices are good confidence builders to get over the entrapment fears. I own two different skirts for my Deltas, the “Rand” neoprene skirts like L6 King or Ace, but I also find a nylon (seals coastal tour) in the 1.7 size fits OK on the Deltas and I use that when it gets hot out (I haven’t rolled with that one to know whether it stays on or not). I agree some paddle strokes and maneuvers are safer (brace turns, etc) and others really can’t be performed without a skirt (sculling brace, etc).
any trouble with them staying on your delta?
@@AdventureOtaku The L6 King stays on fine, even during practicing wet exits. Had to soak it in warm water when new, just to stretch it enough to go on easily, been fine ever since (I got the L cockpit size and XL tunnel size due to my 40 waist). The Coastal Tour 1.7 stays on fine when paddling but I have not tried capsizing or wet exits with that one yet - it does come off the coaming if I raise my knees from the inside, if that’s any indication. I can’t roll yet, can’t find an instructor or class close by, all local pool sessions during winter months are whitewater boats only.
Always wear my spray skirt, summer or winter!
Same here!
A bit surprised that you just DRAG your boat back on shore across the gravel but I guess its not really a problem but seems more abrasive than I would want to be to mine
It was very little gravel, mostly grass… It was unweighted…. Im hard on boats… sometimes I’ll pick it up… I was lazy…. Ive also been paddling thermoformed deltas since 2009, so I am super comfortable with how much abuse they can take. I wouldn’t have done that with a composite boat.
Not an issue with thermoformed (plastic) boats.
I'm going out this afternoon in Wisconsin with air temp: 70-75 F, and water temp: hand-numbing cold elbow deep after 4 min! I'm wearing a skirt (always do anyways to avoid wet lap).
yeah there is definitely an environment factor.
@@AdventureOtaku So I did go out yesterday and the air temp was 78-80F, and the water had warmed up to a fantastic 66-68F! About a 10 deg rise in only a week. I'm guessing the warm weather with torrential rains had an impact. Lake level up significantly and today another 2.3 inches of rain! I'm starting to wonder if the semi-dry top is needed at this time. It was still tolerable for a 4 hour paddle covering a leisurely 9 miles (including 1 mile upstream faster than normal current)
@@bluesideup007 sounds wonderful! Yeah, I would be in a sun shirt and maybe shorts.....
Agree the fear of get stuck in the kayak because of your spray skirt is very exaggerated. BUT hav read of a couple of accidents with drowning. Where the paddler was upside down and stuck in the skirt.There was how ever some dispute on if the paddler had got some heart problems and then flipped. But I se some instructors demonstrating they can not kick the skirt of, if you do not reach the handle to drag it open. So there is a possibility. BUT then you use a very firm neoprene skirt. I have one from Palm (think it is the Palm Roanoke). The size is right for mye kayak, but the first time I mounted it, I needed to use ratchet straps to be able to stretch it long enough to mount it.
I would love to see the details on accidents that involved drowning. Most skirts you can open with your knee... mine might be too tight for that, but I'll try it when the water warms up.
@@AdventureOtaku If I find the articles I'll post them. One of the lessons in the kayaking beginners course is, how to pull loose the skirt. And it is emphasized that many skirts won't come off if the strap is not pulled. But I understand the tighter skirts make it less likely to get water staying on the skirt, and it holds you better when rolling.
Many youtube videos demonstrating how firm/tight the spray skirts are.
ua-cam.com/video/ayRmrWAqoks/v-deo.html
@@kimmokonttinen5101 that video is probably the tightest skirt I have ever seen. But judging by the Greenland hand paddle (I forget what they are called) I think that tightness is by choice, as that person is clearly doing Greenland rolls. In my experience, even serious tourers, don’t use a skirt that tight. You can usually pop the skirt with a knee. As I said, I think there is a lot of variation, both between kayaks and skirt combinations.
I wear a spray skirt all the time for the same reasons you've listed.
As you've stated I've never been stuck upside down because of my spray skirt. However I have been stuck in my kayak upside down because I left my helmet between my legs which wedges them in place. Lesson learned there lol.
This is interesting because I am considering a video about “the myth of entrapment.” NOLS has students regularly have gear int he cockpit, including what is described as a “lap bag” with snacks and sun block and such. It usually ends up on the floor of the cockpit. But NOLS has never had an issue with entrapment. Yours might be the first I have heard of from gear in the cockpit.
@@AdventureOtaku could be that I have a smaller cockpit so it was easier for the helmet to lock my legs in, deck height is 11.5" and my helmet is a L/XL. Obviously I wasn't completely trapped or I wouldn't be writing this now, but I did have to force myself out fairly hard.
However I would personally advise against keeping anything large inside the cockpit at least, a small bag seems fine but a rigid large helmet not so much.
@@prophecy66I think rigid might be a big component
How do I keep doing this?!
Skills brother….skills.
I always use a skirt on sit in kayaks.
As do I…obviously.
As do I…obviously.
I've paddled and owned probably 2 dozen sea kayaks since 1983. For safety I have always outfitted all of my boats to be seaworthy without a sprayskirt. In fact they are actually more stable when the cockpit is flooded -- however they will be slower with the extra weight. (Perfectly round bottom kayaks are an exception to this). In case of a failed roll -- I use an underwater re-enter and roll -- and immediately start paddling out of the danger zone -- no need to pump out, This also allows me to safely leave open the spray skirt on warm days.
I was never good at the re-enter and roll… I would be curious to see how much lower my boat is in the water with the cockpit flooded. Maybe I will try that this summer.
@@AdventureOtaku I've found that off the shelf sea kayaks are not seaworthy with the cockpit flooded and must be pumped out asap. To make a sea kayak with a flooded cockpit workable in a sea I add a lateral bulkhead running from the center of the forward bulkhead to the front edge of the coaming and tapering down to the center of the seat. And I glass in front and rear bulkheads so that the cockpit volume is reduced as much as possible. The lateral bulkhead prevents water from sloshing side to side and actually contributes to stability when flooded.