So I appreciate that you give your honest opinions, but I did want to make a couple things known that I got from watching this full review. 1. I'm a dual angle guy, so I had to do a little refresher on what the 4x4x5 2LS looks like, and after seeing what it's meant to do, I think you chose possibly the 2nd worst layout of the 6 recommended on the 2LS sheet that you could've possibly chosen for this ball. I think it would look much better with the 5x4x3.5 (layout 3) or even 4.5x3x4.5 (layout 4). I would love to see you plug and redrill it with either of those two benchmark layouts and see if you get a better look. 2. What I watched in this video wasn't necessarily poor ball reaction, but rather poorly executed shots and inconsistencies, especially in the middle of the lane. When you executed your shots, the ball looked really good! To give an example of this, at 5:32 you were standing on 25 and ended up sliding on 27. However, when you were standing on 10, you ended up sliding on 19, 7 more boards of drift than you did standing on 25 when you left the 3-4-6-7-10. For the shot around 11:12, you were standing on 40, but ended up sliding on 37. I thought perhaps your drift may go from left to right as you move across the lane, but that was debunked when you stood on 50 and slid on 52. There were several shots which you pulled, didn't have the angles quite right, and had very inconsistent drift from shot to shot. Please do not take this as me saying you're a bad bowler, assuming you're the Joey Marsh I found on bowl.com from the NY area, you're a 215 bowler, which is nothing to sneeze at, but you were certainly very inconsistent in this ball review. 3. I think you hit the nail on the head at one point when you said that this ball thrives when you either play far to the outside and fire it up the boards or move way in and let it chew through the oil. Obviously I don't know your house or house shot, but it looked like when you were playing the middle of the lane, you were getting into the cliff too much which is a recipe for 3-6-10's and washouts depending on which way you miss. This ball, from what I can tell, isn't designed to be a benchmark ball, but it feels like that's what the expectation was based on where you said you played with it the most. Final thoughts: 1. I would love to see you give this ball another chance with a different layout. I really think that 5x4x3.5 is the way to go with something like this. 2. I know this may be a silly question, but what surfaces did you try on it? I have noticed that balls with HK22 covers and compound OOB have a tendency to get very over/under after a few games, but that's usually cured by hitting it with a 3k pad for me. 3. I am getting one myself in about a week, so I'm interested to see if my results vary from yours. I plan on putting a 45x5x45 (5x3.75x3) on mine to get more of that benchmark look. I'll likely keep it with the OOB surface until I get a few games on it before making a decision on changing it. I don't normally do ball review videos, but I may do so for this one. Again, I appreciate the review, and I hope you don't take anything I said as negative towards you guys or the channel, but just a couple things I wanted to point out that I noticed. Keep up the great content!
Ok........ First Thank you for the comment and the break down. I will try to address all of the take away. 1- the lay out was chosen to replace Joey's Storm summit one of Joeys favorite symmetrical pieces summit also has a # 5 layout on it. 2- Joey is one of those unique bowlers that is right handed but uses his right foot to line up. I know its weird we worked on lining up with his left foot but it feels weird for him lol Yes same Joey from NY 215 average last year. 1b- With all of us trying to stay current with all of the products released, We normally don't have the time to redrill many of the releases. We try to review the bowling balls at the OOB cover to see what the manufacturer intended for the ball. 2b- not a silly question at all. We play with surface after the reviews. We try to review all the bowling balls at OOB specs to see how quick they lane shine or how long the cover takes to break in. That is why we try to put at least 50 games on each ball before we review it. 3b- I hope you have better success then what Joey had!!! If you do a ball review let me know im curious to see how you like it!! Every one we talked to liked it fresh OOB but once they got 5 games on it the had to adjust the cover and find something more forgiving or dependable. No Negativity at all!! I appreciate honest and well worded interactions!!! Thank you for the effort and time it took you for the breakdown! we appreciate it!! I hope my response helps clear up Joeys foot work and lay out choices. I will check your channel out as well!! Thank you once again!!
@@XInThePit Appreciate the response in return! I just got mine drilled up the other day. I've thrown a few shots with it, but haven't been able to use it at my home center. The center I got it drilled at has brand new panels as of about a week ago, so I haven't had a chance to throw it on something I'll be bowling on more often yet. I'll likely be doing a little review over the weekend and comparing it to a couple other balls I have in my bag.
@@XInThePit Hi there! I was so excited to do the review that I actually went out this afternoon. I certainly did have a different experience than Joey, but I can certainly see some of his points. Note that i did go with a weaker layout on mine than he did. I went with a 45x5x45 layout. I just uploaded it as of a few minutes ago, so it may still be processing, but please let me know what you think! Appreciate you guys!
Good to hear you got it drilled up! This ball for Joey out of box wasn't bad a little touchy but he got some descent scores with it. The change came about game 10 or so... The ball review you did is almost right out of box. All the other reviews that do them new out of box had similar results good bang for the buck. The Arctic vibe loves its angles and loves to play deep. Joey had the most success playing deep with the ball. I am curious of your opinion on the ball after 50 games or so...
Great review from your perspective. Obviously, not everyone will have the same view, but I like you being brutally honest. I myself like this ball. I have tried various surface changes to get the one that was usable. I went with a 60×4.25×30 layout and my surface I am currently using is 500 Reacta Gloss. This gets it through the fronts and down lane before making a move. None the less.....we appreciate the honest opinions! Keep them coming.
Thank you for the support!! Absolutely correct bowling is one of the most individualized sports there is. There are so many factors that are at play. This ball out of box for a lot of people is not very friendly. Once you change the surface and dial it in you get something usable or favorable. We don't do a lot of surface changes until after the review. We try to give our opinion on what the manufacturer intended the bowling ball to be. With all the brands releasing so many a year it is hard to spend more than a month or so on a ball. Before we are on to the next release.
Love this ball shot 299 ( ugh 1 pin ) first game out of box way above its price point as in performance and i was told it takes surface very well, tempted to get another one drilled and apply surface to it with a different layout the one i have now is 50x4.5x30
A teammate of mine gave me a Cherry Vibe about three years ago because he didn't like what it did, mind you all he throws is Cherry Vibe(s) so it was the layout that killed him. I don't throw Hammer so I made him a deal. I will take it, plug your thumb, drill my thumb (span) and beat you with your own equipment. The next week during our league I beat him with his own equipment and then gave the ball to the local youth league director and donated it. The Vibes can be a niche piece for some bowlers and for others it never really pans out. Keep up the good work kids.
The Cherry Vibe was one of the good ones lol!!! Thanks for the support!!! Bowling is one of the most individualized sports!! Not all cores and covers match up to every one lol. Joey proves this.
Not trying to be rude. But is this even how this ball is made to be played? Isn't AV considered smooth/weak? Why try to power straight down? I've not seen anyone else try to throw it he did when he was missing in. Again, I'm just curious. As a new again bowler AV has been a blast for me.
We try to play the typical lines a league player might play. We try to show the area of the lane where you might play. He starts right and works his way left. This ball looks better playing 5th and 6th arrow.
Funny how Joey didn't like this ball because I had it in the running for my new league ball. Well that and the Motiv Black Venom. Glad I got the Motiv actually. From a lot of the reviews I watched the ball looked to strong in the mids or something and I thought it was very unpredictable too. Appreciated your honesty guys. Next!
Dang. I wanted the Arctic Vibe because it looks interesting, but I'm not so sure I want to deal with it now. This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I am not impressed by my new Venom Black at all. The new PSO forced me into a higher weight ball because I could throw fast despite my doctor and surgeon giving me a weight limit, and I ended up injuring my fingers, hand, wrist, forearm, and shoulder after the first time trying it. Totally seized up my whole left side. Plus, it rolls like 💩 and that's putting it nicely. I don't know if he drilled it wrong or what. It just rolls down lane and pukes into the right gutter if I'm not super careful. Couldn't get over a 107 with it on 3 games, yet pulled 170+ with my Perfect Mindset and Theorem. Hell, even my old beat-up Rhino outperformed with a 198 and Infinity with a 186. The Venom I have to roll like a 100 year old man between 1st and 2nd arrows on the left, or it's a total no-go. I was super excited to get my first Motiv ball. But I'm thinking that it will also be my last. The PSO told me to sell off all of my current balls. Said they are all garbage and that I should only be buying from him. Said all B7 balls are trash and that anything less than the newest balls available are trash. Not sure I will be using him again either. I had taken 8 balls to be drilled and left with 8 balls not drilled and only the new 💩Venom and a whole lot of disappointment.
@GrumpaBaggins The PSO you are using doesn't make us look to good as a collective. I honestly would shop around a little if possible in the area! Now all B7 equipment is not trash. All brands have released really good products. Motiv and the Storm3 brands have released some really good ones as well. The older equipment can hang with the newer equipment as well. I don't agree with the PSO you are using at all. Now the black venom is really good if it matches up for you. The cover is strong so some people have a hard time matching up with it. Aaron hates the black venom. So it's not an unpopular opinion. Im curios if the PSO ( Pro Shop Operator ) found your PaP (positive access point) Axis tilt before laying it out?
@XInThePit He got my PAP, but I don't know about revs, axis, pitch, insert sizes, etc. as he wouldn't give me any more information than my PAP and ball layout (after I pressed him more). He claimed that all other information is confidential, which I really don't understand or believe. I am finally getting a little bit more performance out of my Venom Black after hitting it with a CTD P5000D pad and then ending up using a 2000 pad. I think I went too far with the 2000, so I might back it back up to 3000 grit as it lost almost all hook. I'm up 20 pins at least to 127. Do I need to use any other grits first before going back up to 3000? I hate to be negative about any ball, so I am trying my best to look for the positive aspects of my VB. Surfacing can definitely be a friend!
@@GrumpaBaggins Some shops are so afraid of bowlers having that information lol they think it prevents them from going to other shops. All we need is a PaP, and a ball that fits you well. ship that to any Pro shop and we can duplicate it. We do this a lot for our out of state customers!! All it takes is once then we have most of the important specs. Especially with interchangeable thumb systems makes shopping for bowling equipment a lot easier. After 2k hand sand just apply a 3k hand sand and you should be good. I actually prefer my black venom polished.
We were hoping to have the same success with the Arctic that we had with the summit and the Sublime. Both of those we did a #5 on as well and they are some of Joey's favorites.
@@mbschleicher0 He didn't care for the ball on synthetic or wood surface. unfortunately the cover never really became reliable or really playable for him even after sanding it. The only time he liked it was up the right edge fast and flat or hooking the entire lane (targeting the 5,6 or even the 7th arrow.
I've never uesd mine before late game 2 or start of game 3. I went with a " continuous" drill pattern. I'm 40f no thumb, only 14/15 mph. For the $103 bucks I paid, I love this ball.
@williamguess-ns6th A lot of people like it as a fresh drill. but once the cover breaks in not so much. Every one suggested hitting it with a 2k or 3k pad.
Joey missed his mark at the arrows maybe 2 or 3 times and he says he missed each time he did? Even though he doesn't care for the ball Joey still mad the ball look decent except in the 3rd to 4th arrow area lol.
So I appreciate that you give your honest opinions, but I did want to make a couple things known that I got from watching this full review.
1. I'm a dual angle guy, so I had to do a little refresher on what the 4x4x5 2LS looks like, and after seeing what it's meant to do, I think you chose possibly the 2nd worst layout of the 6 recommended on the 2LS sheet that you could've possibly chosen for this ball. I think it would look much better with the 5x4x3.5 (layout 3) or even 4.5x3x4.5 (layout 4). I would love to see you plug and redrill it with either of those two benchmark layouts and see if you get a better look.
2. What I watched in this video wasn't necessarily poor ball reaction, but rather poorly executed shots and inconsistencies, especially in the middle of the lane. When you executed your shots, the ball looked really good! To give an example of this, at 5:32 you were standing on 25 and ended up sliding on 27. However, when you were standing on 10, you ended up sliding on 19, 7 more boards of drift than you did standing on 25 when you left the 3-4-6-7-10. For the shot around 11:12, you were standing on 40, but ended up sliding on 37. I thought perhaps your drift may go from left to right as you move across the lane, but that was debunked when you stood on 50 and slid on 52. There were several shots which you pulled, didn't have the angles quite right, and had very inconsistent drift from shot to shot. Please do not take this as me saying you're a bad bowler, assuming you're the Joey Marsh I found on bowl.com from the NY area, you're a 215 bowler, which is nothing to sneeze at, but you were certainly very inconsistent in this ball review.
3. I think you hit the nail on the head at one point when you said that this ball thrives when you either play far to the outside and fire it up the boards or move way in and let it chew through the oil. Obviously I don't know your house or house shot, but it looked like when you were playing the middle of the lane, you were getting into the cliff too much which is a recipe for 3-6-10's and washouts depending on which way you miss. This ball, from what I can tell, isn't designed to be a benchmark ball, but it feels like that's what the expectation was based on where you said you played with it the most.
Final thoughts:
1. I would love to see you give this ball another chance with a different layout. I really think that 5x4x3.5 is the way to go with something like this.
2. I know this may be a silly question, but what surfaces did you try on it? I have noticed that balls with HK22 covers and compound OOB have a tendency to get very over/under after a few games, but that's usually cured by hitting it with a 3k pad for me.
3. I am getting one myself in about a week, so I'm interested to see if my results vary from yours. I plan on putting a 45x5x45 (5x3.75x3) on mine to get more of that benchmark look. I'll likely keep it with the OOB surface until I get a few games on it before making a decision on changing it. I don't normally do ball review videos, but I may do so for this one.
Again, I appreciate the review, and I hope you don't take anything I said as negative towards you guys or the channel, but just a couple things I wanted to point out that I noticed. Keep up the great content!
Ok........ First Thank you for the comment and the break down. I will try to address all of the take away.
1- the lay out was chosen to replace Joey's Storm summit one of Joeys favorite symmetrical pieces summit also has a # 5 layout on it.
2- Joey is one of those unique bowlers that is right handed but uses his right foot to line up. I know its weird we worked on lining up with his left foot but it feels weird for him lol
Yes same Joey from NY 215 average last year.
1b- With all of us trying to stay current with all of the products released, We normally don't have the time to redrill many of the releases. We try to review the bowling balls at the OOB cover to see what the manufacturer intended for the ball.
2b- not a silly question at all. We play with surface after the reviews. We try to review all the bowling balls at OOB specs to see how quick they lane shine or how long the cover takes to break in. That is why we try to put at least 50 games on each ball before we review it.
3b- I hope you have better success then what Joey had!!! If you do a ball review let me know im curious to see how you like it!! Every one we talked to liked it fresh OOB but once they got 5 games on it the had to adjust the cover and find something more forgiving or dependable.
No Negativity at all!! I appreciate honest and well worded interactions!!! Thank you for the effort and time it took you for the breakdown! we appreciate it!! I hope my response helps clear up Joeys foot work and lay out choices. I will check your channel out as well!! Thank you once again!!
@@XInThePit Appreciate the response in return!
I just got mine drilled up the other day. I've thrown a few shots with it, but haven't been able to use it at my home center. The center I got it drilled at has brand new panels as of about a week ago, so I haven't had a chance to throw it on something I'll be bowling on more often yet. I'll likely be doing a little review over the weekend and comparing it to a couple other balls I have in my bag.
@@XInThePit Hi there! I was so excited to do the review that I actually went out this afternoon. I certainly did have a different experience than Joey, but I can certainly see some of his points. Note that i did go with a weaker layout on mine than he did. I went with a 45x5x45 layout. I just uploaded it as of a few minutes ago, so it may still be processing, but please let me know what you think! Appreciate you guys!
Good to hear you got it drilled up! This ball for Joey out of box wasn't bad a little touchy but he got some descent scores with it. The change came about game 10 or so... The ball review you did is almost right out of box. All the other reviews that do them new out of box had similar results good bang for the buck. The Arctic vibe loves its angles and loves to play deep. Joey had the most success playing deep with the ball. I am curious of your opinion on the ball after 50 games or so...
Great review from your perspective. Obviously, not everyone will have the same view, but I like you being brutally honest. I myself like this ball. I have tried various surface changes to get the one that was usable. I went with a 60×4.25×30 layout and my surface I am currently using is 500 Reacta Gloss. This gets it through the fronts and down lane before making a move. None the less.....we appreciate the honest opinions! Keep them coming.
Thank you for the support!! Absolutely correct bowling is one of the most individualized sports there is. There are so many factors that are at play. This ball out of box for a lot of people is not very friendly. Once you change the surface and dial it in you get something usable or favorable. We don't do a lot of surface changes until after the review. We try to give our opinion on what the manufacturer intended the bowling ball to be. With all the brands releasing so many a year it is hard to spend more than a month or so on a ball. Before we are on to the next release.
@@XInThePit Agreed. Thanks again!
I 100% appreciate that you say it like it is and dont pander to any sponsors. Keep up the great videos! 👍
Thank you for the support!!
Love this ball shot 299 ( ugh 1 pin ) first game out of box way above its price point as in performance and i was told it takes surface very well, tempted to get another one drilled and apply surface to it with a different layout the one i have now is 50x4.5x30
Yes sir the Arctic takes surface really well in my opinion it helps the ball be more playable or dependable!! congrats on the 299!! keep it up!!!
A teammate of mine gave me a Cherry Vibe about three years ago because he didn't like what it did, mind you all he throws is Cherry Vibe(s) so it was the layout that killed him. I don't throw Hammer so I made him a deal. I will take it, plug your thumb, drill my thumb (span) and beat you with your own equipment. The next week during our league I beat him with his own equipment and then gave the ball to the local youth league director and donated it. The Vibes can be a niche piece for some bowlers and for others it never really pans out. Keep up the good work kids.
The Cherry Vibe was one of the good ones lol!!! Thanks for the support!!! Bowling is one of the most individualized sports!! Not all cores and covers match up to every one lol. Joey proves this.
Not trying to be rude. But is this even how this ball is made to be played? Isn't AV considered smooth/weak? Why try to power straight down? I've not seen anyone else try to throw it he did when he was missing in.
Again, I'm just curious. As a new again bowler AV has been a blast for me.
We try to play the typical lines a league player might play.
We try to show the area of the lane where you might play.
He starts right and works his way left. This ball looks better playing 5th and 6th arrow.
Funny how Joey didn't like this ball because I had it in the running for my new league ball. Well that and the Motiv Black Venom. Glad I got the Motiv actually. From a lot of the reviews I watched the ball looked to strong in the mids or something and I thought it was very unpredictable too. Appreciated your honesty guys. Next!
This is one of those hate or love balls. Joey does not love it lol.
i've only played about 13 games on my arctic vibe so far, high gamed a 289. it seems to like second arrow.
Fresh out the box until about 20 games on it. Joey had his best games with it.
All I had to do was crack the finish with a 3000 pad by hand and it woke this ball up. Reads much more consistently than it did OOB.
Yes!! and it smooths the reaction out to something almost usable or reliable. OOB finish is not friendly.
Dang. I wanted the Arctic Vibe because it looks interesting, but I'm not so sure I want to deal with it now. This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I am not impressed by my new Venom Black at all. The new PSO forced me into a higher weight ball because I could throw fast despite my doctor and surgeon giving me a weight limit, and I ended up injuring my fingers, hand, wrist, forearm, and shoulder after the first time trying it. Totally seized up my whole left side. Plus, it rolls like 💩 and that's putting it nicely. I don't know if he drilled it wrong or what. It just rolls down lane and pukes into the right gutter if I'm not super careful. Couldn't get over a 107 with it on 3 games, yet pulled 170+ with my Perfect Mindset and Theorem. Hell, even my old beat-up Rhino outperformed with a 198 and Infinity with a 186. The Venom I have to roll like a 100 year old man between 1st and 2nd arrows on the left, or it's a total no-go. I was super excited to get my first Motiv ball. But I'm thinking that it will also be my last. The PSO told me to sell off all of my current balls. Said they are all garbage and that I should only be buying from him. Said all B7 balls are trash and that anything less than the newest balls available are trash. Not sure I will be using him again either. I had taken 8 balls to be drilled and left with 8 balls not drilled and only the new 💩Venom and a whole lot of disappointment.
That PSO sounds like a POS.
I drive an hour oth ways to go see the guy that drills my equipment.
I like my vibe. Cheap and hits hard.
@GrumpaBaggins The PSO you are using doesn't make us look to good as a collective. I honestly would shop around a little if possible in the area! Now all B7 equipment is not trash. All brands have released really good products. Motiv and the Storm3 brands have released some really good ones as well. The older equipment can hang with the newer equipment as well. I don't agree with the PSO you are using at all. Now the black venom is really good if it matches up for you. The cover is strong so some people have a hard time matching up with it. Aaron hates the black venom. So it's not an unpopular opinion. Im curios if the PSO ( Pro Shop Operator ) found your PaP (positive access point) Axis tilt before laying it out?
@free2befree
Yes!!! we have customers driving hours to get a shop that puts the bowler first.
@XInThePit He got my PAP, but I don't know about revs, axis, pitch, insert sizes, etc. as he wouldn't give me any more information than my PAP and ball layout (after I pressed him more). He claimed that all other information is confidential, which I really don't understand or believe. I am finally getting a little bit more performance out of my Venom Black after hitting it with a CTD P5000D pad and then ending up using a 2000 pad. I think I went too far with the 2000, so I might back it back up to 3000 grit as it lost almost all hook. I'm up 20 pins at least to 127. Do I need to use any other grits first before going back up to 3000?
I hate to be negative about any ball, so I am trying my best to look for the positive aspects of my VB. Surfacing can definitely be a friend!
@@GrumpaBaggins Some shops are so afraid of bowlers having that information lol they think it prevents them from going to other shops. All we need is a PaP, and a ball that fits you well. ship that to any Pro shop and we can duplicate it. We do this a lot for our out of state customers!! All it takes is once then we have most of the important specs. Especially with interchangeable thumb systems makes shopping for bowling equipment a lot easier.
After 2k hand sand just apply a 3k hand sand and you should be good. I actually prefer my black venom polished.
Would love to see his go to layout on this, instead of that 5 inch pin to center of grip! Redrill! ;)
With his release, I would absolutely be using a shorter COG distance. I’d go something like 5x4x2 or 4x3x2 2LS.
We were hoping to have the same success with the Arctic that we had with the summit and the Sublime. Both of those we did a #5 on as well and they are some of Joey's favorites.
@@XInThePit I just mean before he dumps it! haha :)
@@XInThePit Was curious -- did he like this at all on synthetic better than wood?
@@mbschleicher0 He didn't care for the ball on synthetic or wood surface. unfortunately the cover never really became reliable or really playable for him even after sanding it. The only time he liked it was up the right edge fast and flat or hooking the entire lane (targeting the 5,6 or even the 7th arrow.
I have the radioactive bright yellow vibe I hit it with 2500 pads and thus ball is pretty decent for me was looking at the arctic but no need to now
OOB finish is a little brutal in our opinion.
I have one, liked it at first, now doesn't come out of the bag! I tried everything, not sure if it's me or the ball?
One thing I've learned with it is that it's only good for the first game or two
I've never uesd mine before late game 2 or start of game 3.
I went with a " continuous" drill pattern. I'm 40f no thumb, only 14/15 mph. For the $103 bucks I paid, I love this ball.
@williamguess-ns6th A lot of people like it as a fresh drill. but once the cover breaks in not so much.
Every one suggested hitting it with a 2k or 3k pad.
Hard to beat a ball for 100 bucks.
It's been awhile since I've heard an A Brunswick steel uninsulated pinwheel
Yeah the old A machines. Hard to beat them for reliability.
Watching this kid, it sure seems he should try and get the ball into the dry on the back?
He was trying to use the hybrid cover to play a little in the oil and blend the mid lane.
The Arctic vibe really jumps off the spot
You are not hitting your mark at all😮
Joey missed his mark at the arrows maybe 2 or 3 times and he says he missed each time he did?
Even though he doesn't care for the ball Joey still mad the ball look decent except in the 3rd to 4th arrow area lol.