Heyyyyy! Happy New Star Wars Weekend. As always, the controversy and debate around these movies is getting pretty heated - but I wanted to take today to celebrate something I love, not fight something I hate. This video is part of a huge UA-camr collaboration called *Star Wars Defined!* If you wanna get in on the whole thing, you can make your own video and send it to BrowntableEntertainment@gmail.com to have it added to the playlist. Even if you don't make a video, let me know your favorite Star Wars movie scene in the comments. I'm hoping for some really surprising takes. Check out the *Star Wars Defined* playlist here: ua-cam.com/video/ISrVe4uUXZg/v-deo.html
That’s the genius about good writing it doesn’t spell things out. Think about this; George also sold Attack of the clones as a love story. When in reality Attack of the clones is a story about a disturbed kid that has an obsession with a woman from his past. Point 1: everything Anakin does was made fun of as something no one would behave that way. But in reality when you look at peoples behaviors on UA-cam they act pretty much the same. There are also psychological aspects of what future murders go through. Many killers start killing small animals. That’s something he relates to his future wife. They are like animals so I slaughtered them like animals. On top the obsession story. Sure there can be love in his heart but if he didn’t have the force I don’t think he would have ended up with his obsession. The way their love is always described is always linked through his emotions towards her through the force. In essence she would feel emotions he does. He grooms her sort of. Of course there is also the factor of him being good looking and well in the real world we have such individuals like ted bundy that lure women with out the force. Can you imagine him having the force. There is also his status of an accomplished person can’t say that women wouldn’t find that sexy. Remember women don’t date down they date level status or up. In the end though I think he does love her his infatuational love is not healthy. Of course you can’t sell that type of movie to Hollywood you put that as an undertone.
Exactly, originally Obi-Wan was wrong. But Jar Jar Abrams in The Rise of Skywalker resurrected the Emperor and had Rey defeat him (again) in order to make *her* the chosen one instead of Anakin, which makes Obi-Wan correct after all.
@@edwardmiessner6502 which practically f* up all of the good stuff in the story, that the jedi was ultimately wrong, they and the sith were practically the same and this was showed in other media, like SW rebels and Clone Wars.
Geralt of Trivia TLJ helps here too. In the Kylo/Rey/Snoke throne room scene, Snoke could predict every move they were both going to make, and only lost because he thought he knew what Kylo "killing his true enemy" meant. If not for that one weird trick, Snoke effectively had complete control over Kylo when he was in his vicinity. Palpatine was doing the same thing, sitting comfortably while unarmed because he could see everything they were going to do. If he hadn't foreseen Vader deflecting Luke's saber, he would have killed Vader on the spot for betraying him. In Cloud City, far from the Emperor, Vader and Luke had an opportunity to team up, but once they were back in his sight, it was too late.
Qui Gon was the worst. He happily tore Anakin away from his mother because of a blood analysis, told him to suppress his emotions and did nothing to stop the slavery of Shmi, though he was a Jedi with a lot of official and unofficial power and he could have freed the others.
Even though I'm not a fan of TLJ, I do agree that the scene when Luke dispels the myth of jedi as arrogant and indignant that led to their downfall is brilliant.
This video clip is just proof positive millennials don't understand Star Wars. Luke was regaling that story to Rey from his own POV, that was framed in fear. Something that he admitted to in Episode IX. As Obi-Wan told Luke many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view, and that what Luke was doing. The scene wasn't to illustrate that the Jedi Order=bad it was to demonstrate that Luke as we once knew him, was gone and a spiritually defeated person, and that after his academy was destroyed he started questioning his own faith, and even disconnected from The Force entirely.
MetalForTheMasses yeah but symbols are corrupted and forgotten all the time. That’s my problem with TLJ it tried to dispel the typical hero story but it doesn’t work imo.
@@fifthlife55 How does it "dispel" the myth? Luke SAVES everyone at the end. Its about reconstructing the myth - Luke acknowledges failure AND becomes a hero with knowledge
@Film Toppings Yeah, real talk, I love the prequels and even I had reaction. The prequel hate is so loud, I'm left thinking us prequel lovers are heretics of the fandom.
@@Elyndyr The entire point of the Prequel Trilogy was to show how the Jedi Council of that time failed the Jedi Order, not that the Jedi Order is bad. The only 2 true Jedi we see in the films are end of RotJ Luke and Qui-Gon.
@@6ve0tx2hbmogcz3 Lucas has made very clear that Jedi are good and Sith are evil. However, being a Sith is redeemable. Lucas' vision for society is for people to make more thoughtful choices and rely less on emotional response. The Prequels show how the Jedi of that time failed a young, emotional boy who has experienced trauma. They taught Anakin to suppress his emotions instead of mastering them as Luke did in RotJ.
@@revimfadli4666 Actually I started out loving the movie but after rejudging the movie I realise the "haters" have some really valid points. There was a lot going well for this movie, but having Luke ready to kill a child and a family member was way too far into making him an anti hero or whatever. The Finn Rose stuff doesn't work. The Poe Leia stuff seemed like a force plot point. The lightspeed suicide mission does kinda recontextualise past movies as stupid for not thinking of it. It really doesn't set up a third movie either. Rian had great ideas but I think he chose the wrong time to insert them into a movie. Although overall it's Disney's fault for not having a planned trilogy anyway.
tlj was the worst thing that have ever happened to me as a new star war fan, I'm not like the hardcore ones but after tlj, i stopped caring about sw until "The mandalorian" I haven't seen tros...and won't see it until it comes on tv or netflix or dvd...
We need more fans like this... who are able to see beyond crappy writting/direction and contextualize what is a great story. The Saga was great, it's not perfect but it was great and all three trilogies carry their own theme. The force is strong in this one! XD
Ok woah woah woah yoda never says you must kill darth Vader to luke. He says “you must confront him” Just wanted to clarify that because that kinda triggered me you said that
Obi-Wan tried to save Anakin and in Revenge of the Sith even told Yoda he didn't want to face him. His mercy and reluctance to kill Anakin then lead to years of the galaxy being terrorised by Darth Vader. Hence he was trying to get Luke to avoid the same mistake.
*Darth Sidious, telling Anakin to kill Count Dooku:* “He’s too dangerous to be left alive.” Anakin: “It’s not the Jedi way...” *Mace Windu, about to execute Darth Sidious:* “He’s too dangerous to be left alive!” Anakin: “.....” That’s all, folks!
Remember the scene where Mace Windu says the Jedi will have to take over the senate if Palpatine refuses to hand over emergency powers? Makes him seem awfully power hungry. Revenge of the Sith clearly illustrates Palpatine and Mace Windu as two characters who aren't so different from each other.
@@o...o4144 I love the prequels tbh. They may be cringey but BAD movies? I mean, there are some scenes with bad dialogue but the story, lore and characters that it gave us? "But oh, Annoying Kid 47, Hayden is such a bad actor-" Even if he was we would still have Dooku, Kenobi, Sheev, Qui Qon Jinn, Mace Windu, Bad-ass AND wise Yoda, Grievous and more.
@@mv9370 Yeah the thing about Yoda in the prequels is that he's the complete opposite of wise also Qui Gon isn't that interesting. It's not the first time we get a grey jedi. Like the guy in the video says, the prequels' story is great. There's no doubt on that. It was just executed poorly and that's why a group of fans doesn't like them. Because if Anakin Skywalker's descent into the dark side had been told as well as the OT . The prequels could have been a true masterpiece.
Interviewer: why you glorify gore in your movies? Quentin Tarantino: because Hollywood already glorified violence in cinema, by making the hero killing bad guys like the noble warrior when in reality he is just as awfull as the villain. You got James Bond killing millons of extras just to save other millons of extras, you got Rambo killing a lot of soldiers like an American hero ignoring that he is a disturbed psycho, and you have luke skywalker killing millons of people from the dead star like heroic goal insted of a terrorist attempt. Hollywood always loved violence, it's just that I'm more honest with the violence and the types of characters I wrote.
That's what i always thought, after seeing how some movies/series take killing or not killing as a very important factor to the character (especially superhero movies) i hate how in star wars movies (as much as i adore them)make killing so simple, Luke kills and has a lot of fun with it, Finn kills storm troopers with no second doubts even tho he was one of them, as much as i liked the idea of a storm trooper turning good and making storm troopers feel human (finally)they still ruin it a bit by slaughtering them with such violence, they enjoy killing for some reason, if Luke kills storm troopers with so much fun than what makes Vader any different? Yes he is his father but if he didn't know thay he would've tried to kill him. I would've liked at least one scene where star wars characters feel sad for their enemies or feel bad for killing them I love star wars but no movie or franchise is perfect
@LyfiePlus the problem Is that the big epics like dune, game of thrones, hell even avatar and Lord of the rings (despite this one beeing a human vs orcs story) theres always an exploration on human morality making the characters More humans despite then living in a fantasy world. An Star wars most of the Time reject that to give us a Lot of good vs evil action scenes. Even if they explore a little bit of that, like in the clone wars, they still blew up with the main characters hipocresy. My favorite Is that scene from CW when barris says that the jedi only believe in violence to solve everything follow by anakin with two lightsabers ready to kick her ass... Oh and i forgot to mention this bitch at that point blow up an entire building and blamed Ashoka. Yeah questioning morality my ass you are still making excuse for More good vs evil action scene, and i like clone wars but come one thats pretty stupid.
I think Qui-Gon's lack of trust in the Jedi Council was probably designed to work towards the fallibility of the Jedi, but again like you said it was executed poorly and that is kinda lost
TCW helps a lot to make Anakin's breaking away from the Jedi Order appear less sudden by showing in-depth how and why he gets more and more disillusioned with the order.
@@revimfadli4666 more details would have been nice, sure, but just as Anakin's development it also stood perfectly fine on its own for anyone bothering to think about it
@@geetadhumane5793 "What was the problem with these guys?! They suspected Palpatine was up to some shit but still did what he wanted at every turn! These guys must have been blind, incompetent, or both! Maybe the Jedi shouldn't be in charge of the force if they're this stupid."
@@geetadhumane5793 Why did you bring up Mace Windu, of all the Jedi? What is it with you Star Wars fans who tend to scapegoat Mace for every bad decision that the Jedi made, including Obi-Wan and Yoda?
@@Yibambe. It is though. Vader isn't even physically the same as Anakin. Especially the Vader in the originals. He is full of hate, anger, and resentment from the years in the suit.
Watch The Clone Wars. At the end of Ahsoka's "The Wrong Jedi" Arc, you'll be cheering for Order 66. Working with stronger storytellers, all the incredible themes Lucas gave us in the Prequels are expressed in much stronger ways through that series.
While the Clone Wars showed the failures of the Jedi, such as with Ashoka, being forced to follow the orders of the Senate at times, not believing Fives about the conspiracy, or even choosing to still trust the Clones after they found out Dooku helped create the Clone Army, it also showed their good, the way they helped, whether it be saving the people of Ryloth from the Separatist, saving the Togura people from the Zygeria Slavers, and so on. The series shows us both the good and the bad of the Jedi and while their own arrogance did lead to their downfall that doesn't change all the good they did in the galaxy, inspiring many people either directly or indirectly from the myths into wanting to do the right thing. As Ezra told Kanen in Star Wars Rebels about what he taught him beyond Lightsaber and Force abilities, "I'm not talking about being a Jedi. I'm talking about being kind and a good person. That is what you taught me." So we can learn a lot of good from the Jedi of the past, but also we can learn to not repeat their mistakes. In fact, Luke kind of did this in the EU when he reformed the Jedi order after episode 6 in the old Legends, where he carried on several of the old Jedi traditions and lessons, but also allowed for changes, like allowing Jedi to get married and form attachments, just so long as they trained to control their emotions so they wouldn't consume them as Anakin's did. In fact, in that regard Oobi-Wan in the Clone Wars is a Jedi like that when Maul took over Mandelor, he went their and defied the Council and Senate's orders to save the women he loved Satine, but he failed and Maul killed her, but when he did, despite being overcome with anger and sorrow, he didn't let it consume him, because he knew if he did Maul would win and he would not be the man Satine fell in love with.
Qui-gon had so much distain for the Jedi order and he expressed it very openly. He wanted to fulfill the prophecy and in retrospect it seems like he totally knew it meant they will be nearly wiped out. If always two there are, a master and an apprentice, and the Sith were two while the Jedi had thousands in their ranks, then restoring balance to the force means wiping out the Jedi order and ending up with two Sith and two Jedi. Considering this, it's no surprise that the Jedi weren't too keen on fulfilling this propechy.
That is not how balance in the force works. It is a common mistake. But the Dark Side in Star Wars is kind of like the cancer cells of the universe. If your health is balanced, does that mean you have an equal amount of cancer cells as white blood cells?
@@babyyoshi3099 The thing about properchies is that they're purposefully vague and can be interpreted in numerous ways. If the prequels start out with thousands of Jedi roaming the galaxy and the Sith thought to be extinct, why does the force need balancing to begin with?
@@ShirDeutch Well Darth Maul was in the first movie. So they knew the Sith were still around, but you still make a fair point. That is kind of a plothole. Also, the prophecy was meant to describe when Vader threw Palpatine off and killed him (which is kind of ruined by bring Palpatine back in ROS, but not going into that). The Jedi had no idea it would result in them being disbanded. Also, I don't remember the source, so I can't point you to it. But George explicitly said balance means the destruction of the dark side/sith. I do like your theory though, it just does not really hold up.
Qui-Gon didn't express much of anything openly at all, and that's sort of the problem. We're told he's a rebellious iconoclast. Yet from the actual actions he takes in the movie, other than saying "look, I'll just do it without permission" he's... exactly like every other Jedi.
I'd disagree, Rey while struggling to control herself ends up showing Ben compassion by selflessly healing him. Finn is shown to be driven by empathy throughout the film and hinted at as at least slightly force sensitive, those are presented as tied together. Leia sacrifices herself for her son. Ben selflessly sacrifices himself to save Rey, completing the circle of Anakin being unable to save Padme because he was motivated by selfish possessive love rather than selfless sacrifice. Luke didn't really contradict anything he learns in 8. Rey even refuses to strike down Palpatine in hate or anger, and when she did defeat him it's out of self sacrifice. She never even hits him, she (and ask if the Jedi) basically just reflect all of his (and all of the Sith's) hate back into him with compassion as symbolized by the lightsabers of the 2 most compassionate skywalkers (that trained and supported her even though she was from that dark lineage as Luke says). She ends up dying (nearly) because of her selfless sacrifice. The movie actually very cleverly uses the whole force heal thing to signify this selfless sacrifice theme. Poe wants to shoot the snake but Rey chooses to give some of herself instead to heal it, BB-8 even gives a little of his energy to charge D-0 after seeing what Rey did, Leia sacrifices herself for Ben, they reinforce that Han gave his life for Ben, Rey gives some of herself for Ben, and Ben gives his life for Rey. If anything TRoS doubles down on the "save what we love" rather than "fight what we hate" compassion and selflessness themes. Which imo ties directly into what he discussed.
@Marcus Kylo has no army? He literally just became the Supreme Leader of the First Order in TLJ. The fleet that got wrecked was not the entire force of the First Order.
@@hargibson18 Hi Harrison. My "undoing the vision of Luke" was meant in the sense of what he thought of the Jedi order before and the Force as equilibrium. I found very interesting that Johnson put this EU concept (I would say the most famous character were Revan and Traya, to think of the Force this way), and followed the logical order explained in the video. IMHO, ep9 "kinda" undoes this Luke to represent an ep5 Kenobi version of him because there is no follow up, just an "All-Jedi vs All-Sith" which is motivated by the fact that Palpatine is the Great Evil of the Saga, not something else. I agree that the Force Heal can be seen in this way, for Anakin flaws exc, but I don't think compassion is a new concept. Luke himself refused to strike down his father for compassion when seeing his artifical arm he realized they were the same. Compassion just lost vs the fear of the dark side that devoured the old Jedis and Luke between ep6 and ep7, because he was taught this way, and I would have loved a development of this new concept, a new vision of the Jedi order based on a balance instead of just "pure light side". In this way I think that ep9 has not a lot of courage and plays safe, but still, my opinion.
It was already clear that the prequels were about the Jedi's downfall ,due to arrogance, and the rise of Vader. Old Luke saying that the Jedi failed and were arrogant definitely is not the first person nor the first SW character to...
OG triology: "YAY JEDI ARE PERFECT AND AWESOME!" Prequels "The Jedi as an organization are extremely flawed and those flaws led to their downfall" TLJ: "The Jedi as an organization are extremely flawed and those flaws led to their downfall" ROTS: "YAY JEDI ARE PERFECT AND AWESOME!"
😂 my how time has recontextualized things. I remember how for years Star Wars fans complained about how awful the prequels were...and now they are romanticized, deified...not unlike the Jedi 😉
But one of the arcs in TLJ is that the Jedi, mainly just Luke and Yoda, realize how they have messed up in the past, and that allows Rey to redeem them in RoS. So it still works for the most part.
Stephen Jenkins The whole reason they keep him off screen for almost all of the first movie is because the moment he stepped into the movie, it would become all about him. The Sequel Trilogy was always going to have the original cast as supporting players, instead of leads.
jakeyboy851 No, I think it’s just that Lucas was never much good at dialogue that sounded like real people were saying it. When Hayden’s doing a scene where he is quiet, he demonstrates good skill.
You left out the whole part about why the Jedi were fighting in the first place in the prequels! It was in order to defend the republic from the Separatist droid invasions; never about their "eager[ness] to be militarized." This is illustrated by the fact that Obi Wan in episode III on Mustafar says "Anakin, My allegiance is to the republic, to democracy!" Notice how he doesn't refer to the Jedi order, power, or greed, but to peace, prosperity, and liberty, that the republic brings, and thus the reason he must confront Anakin. You made it seem like the jedi in the prequels were conquest driven. Yes they were arrogant, but that is their tragic flaw. They are still heroes, but similarly to ancient Greek myth, their tragic flaw leads to their demise.
"The Clone Wars have always been, in and of themselves, from their very inception, the revenge of the Sith. They were irresistible bait. They took place in remote locations, on planets that belonged, primarily, to "somebody else." They were fought by expendable proxies. And they were constructed as a win-win situation. The Clone Wars were the perfect Jedi trap. By fighting at all, the Jedi lost."
@kevin willems How could you make that assumption? The first episode was called the Phantom Menace because the sith were hiding in the shadows like "phantoms" (ghosts) since no one knew who was pulling the strings. Your point of that they "could have known" is simply absurd given the fact that the whole premise of the first movie was that they didn't know! The thing about slavery still being legal was also brought up in the first place by Padme, one of the movies biggest supporters of the republic. The Jedi were against slavery, even freeing a slave boy. The only reason slavery was legal on Anakin's planet was that it was far away from the republic's control. Notice how when Watto was offered republic credits by Qui-Gon Jinn for a ship he said, "those are no good out here." Dude I think you need to rewatch the first few movies and then tell me what you think.
@@johnmontello9464 Yes the premise is that the jedi didn't know, but that doesn't mean that (in universe) they shouldn't have known or suspected anything about the "phantom menace" that was (quite literally) right next to them. This is very, very explicitely shown in the scene at the end where Yoda and Mace talk to eachother during Qui-Gon's funeral and the camera pans over to Palpatine. Furthermore, as you said, the thing about slavery being illegal was brought up by PADME, not by the jedi. The jedi accept the fact that slavery exists outside of the Republic and therefore isn't under their control while Padme is clearly shaken by it. The jedi took Anakin because they thought he was exceptionally gifted in the force and therefore interesting to them, not because they wanted to save a kid from slavery. The Republic itself isn't what's being portrayed as "bad", it's the jedi who are portrayed as selfish and arrogant. Those are two distinct groups.
One of the things I noticed on my constant rewatches of revenge of the sith is how Mace Windu repeats one of palpatines lines from the beginning of the movie. “He’s to dangerous to be kept alive”.
Fans who sit down and analyze deeply to understand what was meant to be told rather than to make their opinion be the only rightful voice in star wars??? Haha, good luck with taking that people and make them be less like that and more like him.... We can only wish
@Robert Ortiz-Wilson I have to disagree. Saying that you don't need TLJ because of the points you've made is only in relation to your perception and understanding of the series. Not everyone that watches these films are the hardcore fan type, or the type to analyse and understand films as much as you might. You have to remember that a franchise as huge as Star Wars has to pander to the casual viewer, and those that might not be so lets say... switched on.
@Joel Stock yeah.... only if you completely forget about the existence of Pink Hair Ladys Arc, Rose, Leia Poppins, Rey aka Mary Sue and 90% of the rest, then you can get to that takeaway....
My feelings on TLJ haven’t changed. But my opinion on Luke certainly has. What I thought made the movie worse actually made it better. I still don’t like TLJ, but you’re absolutely right in this video. I now appreciate how Luke was portrayed.
Joseph Najarian i agree too. This was well made! I hated last jedi too stupidly because I didn’t get that epic fight with Luke. But I’m not much of a big Star Wars fan when I saw it last jedi with my siblings in theaters. Now I get why people think the last Jedi is good.
@@furious_malic7808 He addressed ONE scene. And then interpreted the fight by it. Why is his opinion on Luke more relevant than Mark Hamills? Who still hates this character? I don't believe either of you actually disliked the Last Jedi. And you are some weak willed persons if this little video changed your opinion on the whole film. He addressed less than a full minute of Luke's dialogue and actions in the movie. And The Rise of Skywalker retconned most of what Rian did with Luke because most fans don't agree.
I actually meant to say "two of the SEQUELS" are some of the best movies in the franchise. Although I'll admit that other people who aren't simply reactionaries don't like The Force Awakens as much as I do. Soulless rehash as it is, it succeeds at what Phantom Menace failed at, and while it's messy, it feels like what a Star Wars first entry should be.
i dint think the prequels were ever that subtle about it but the fact that so many people need to have everything spelled out in the most obvious way for them also explains the bad reception of TLJ itself.
Or maybe it was the plot holes, the OJ chase in space, the entire casino mission or the overzealous attempt to be woke. Or maybe it was the overzealous attempt to “subvert expectations.”
@@Wicked_Trojan i dont like most of the casino that much myself but one story line doesnt ruin a movie. other than that there are no plot holes. the film just doesnt spell everything out for you and wants you to think. every subversion makes sense and has a reason for the story. therefore you should think about your expectations instead of critiquing a film for not following a nonesensical fanfiction of yours, as seen with tros.
This is the best analysis I’ve ever seen since the sequels came out. People nowadays just like to trash everything all over social media and complain about stuff, instead of focusing on the positive. It’s so overwhelming 🙄
I am an original fan from 1977. I am twice your age, then. And I say, young man... that was effing brilliant. The Force is strong in you. Thank you for this.
_”Contrary to popular belief, the message is not ‘Let the past die.’ Kylo Ren says that. _*_He’s the villain.”_* THANK YOU!!!! You can’t believe how many people I’ve heard hate this movie over that one misunderstanding
Lady Wanderer Consistent with the tone of the movie? With all due respect, doesn’t the movie end with Luke telling Kylo he is wrong for wanting the past to die, and that the Jedi will live on?
TLJ still remains the worst SW movie out of all. All these explanations are made for little kids. Its obvious that the prequels show the jedi failure, the fact that its told in episode VIII doesn't make the movie better. The problem with the prequels is more in details, the fact that Anakin's mother was abandoned for no reason by the Jedi and the republic, its so strange and shows Jedi's being dumb AF. I dont know why Lucas made it look like that. But their blindness is shown quite good, their blind believe in the prophecy brought them to the end, as did their desire for power, they lost their way. So there are some little details remained unexplained and strange for me, but AS A WHOLE BIG story the prequels are great and make a lot of sense. What doesn't make sense are the sequels, that dumb shit doesn't explain anything, this movies just throw shit at you with no explanation WTF happened to the new republic? Where the fuck this 1st order came from? WTF is the new Republic army or smthg Why the "good" guys are still called the resistance while technically the 1st order are the rebels These are just little stupid questions you have to ask yourself while watching the sequels nobody gives you the background (how did it all came to this, what s really going on in the galaxy exc)
I can remember the world before the prequels and I still think Revenge of The Sith is one of the best Star Wars movies. The prequels never needed saving.
To me, the prequel films, video games, and The Clone Wars show demonstrated to all of us that the Clone Wars era was the best era of the Star Wars universe. The droids, Jedi, Sith, and clone troopers were so interesting. Seeing all the different planets was cool, too. I honestly couldn't care less about Empire vs. Rebels 2.0.
+Geralt of Trivia In the OT, they were making all of it up as they went along, so don't pretend and act like everything was planned out right from the get-go. Star Wars was not supposed to be even a trilogy. It was one film, which was successful, and they later transitioned it into Episodes IV, V, and VI. Mace Windu wanted to kill Palpatine for having control of the courts was to show that the Jedi were hypocrites, much like how they are represented in The Clone Wars show. "instead of just ending RotS with him going "failed, I have" which was too little, too late." That's not what happened. In Revenge of the Sith, Yoda failed to defeat the Emperor on Coruscant, in efforts to prevent the Galactic Empire from taking over before it could begin, but that wasn't the end of the film. He spoke to Obi-Wan about the ability to commune with Jedi force ghosts. It is revealed that Qui-Gon was the first Jedi to find a path to immortality. It's why Obi-Wan was able to become a force ghost in Episode IV. The Clone Wars show fleshed out the prequel characters more than any of Disney's trash could ever hope to attempt to achieve. J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson have no business touching anything that has anything to do with Star Wars ever again. "Yoda's scene in TLJ single-handedly fixes his character by being aware that he changed" Neither Yoda's or Luke's character ever needed fixing. Their arcs were fine the way they were presented in the OT. In TLJ, they made Yoda seem so goofy and stupid around Luke, despite being with him on that island for years. Jedi force ghosts can't magically cast down lightning from the sky, either. The whole scene was so fucking stupid. Yoda's arc was complete in Return of the Jedi. The prequels obviously take place before the original trilogy, which is like 20 years before the Galactic Civil War. The Jedi were presented as being flawed, stagnant, and complacent in the prequels. That was their ultimate downfall, which Palpatine took full advantage of. We didn't need to doubly understand this plot point via Empire vs. Rebels 2.0. It was already shown, rather than told. That's part of the many reasons why TLJ is trash. The fall of the Jedi via Order 66 and the politics in the prequels was brilliant. Flawed? Yes, which is why The Clone Wars show better helps to flesh everything out. The sequels, on the other hand, unravel the OT and almost everything the characters learned and achieved in Episode VI.
This is what I’ve noticed and loved about the prequels that it actually enriched the original story. While the Jedi were drunk on power in their prime their main failure for me was teaching Padawans to suppress their emotions rather than manage them. Naturally with his traumatized Anakins life is, he needed that guidance that was never afforded to him. What makes Luke the hero in the originals is now more clear thanks to the prequels. The Jedi still in EPS and RoTJ have not learned their lesson and try to train Luke the same way they did his father, by suppressing the attachment Luke has to his father. Luke, however does what Anakin never could, because Luke was raised in a healthy environment of love thanks to his aunt and uncle was already able to understand and manage emotions. Therefore he goes against the Jedis order and instead of suppressing his emotions he manages them. First by using anger to fight Vader and then by choosing love to redeem his father. What I love about this is Anakin needed to learn that skill that Luke had already and with the Jedi refusing to help him caused him to turn to the dark side as palpatine was more than happy to give a certain amount of guidance to him. The prequels show the Jedi downfall and the original show a failed and desperate Jedi once they realize they have a new hope in Luke. Luke finally uses emotion to get though to Vader and allowing him to fulfill the prophecy.
So, I got this via the algorithm [ which is kinda the point of _One Marvelous Scene_ & _Star Wars Defined_ ] At first, I was a bit mad at how obviously young you are [& I'm not even that old]. But damn. Not only was that a very good analysis of both the prequels and TLJ, not only do you understand the point of TLJ, not only do you clearly appreciate Star Wars as a whole, but you also managed to talk about Episode 8 without _any_ vitriol. I love TLJ, but I really think that even amongst those who agree with me the conversation always gets heated. For the first time in a while, you've given me hope for the fandom. I _will_ like & share your video. 👍
But the issue is, Luke already learned that lesson. Houston even points out, explicitly, that Luke went against the advice of Yoda and Ben in Episode 6, that it worked, and that they gave their implied approval of his decisions. Why would he then immediately pick up on teaching people the same way the old Jedi Order did? Luke's entire character is centered on compassion and self-sacrifice. He's the guy who would run unprepared into an obvious trap for his friends. He wouldn't abandon them to do fuck-all on some remote planet even if he felt a bit down about finding out about the truth of the Jedi. If he left because of his own failures as a teacher than it seems to me he would attempt to bring them back to the light, and most likely die trying. That's who Luke was. An explicit acknowledgement of the Jedi's flaws was, evidently, necessary but Rian Johnson did it wrong. The sequels, all of them, were just entirely wrong.
@@the_boar_king8990 My guess is that he only learned how flawed the Jedi way was by teaching it himself. At first, he had to take inspiration from the old Jedi order because that's the only one he knew about and at the end of RotJ he still idolized the Jedi. But in the wake of his failure with Ben he clearly came to the realization that the old Jedi ways are deeply flawed. And he hid away on the a remote island because he was deeply ashamed for the way he acted that night, that's always how I saw it. I've said it before but I really appreciate how RJ humanized Luke in TLJ. And besides, it was JJ who put Luke on that island. So if you're gonna blame anyone, blame him.
@@Denjeanification I absolutely blame JJ. The Force Awakens, in my opinion, is the worst of the three because it simultaneously demolishes the legacy of the OT and squanders all of its potential. It destroys the New Republic, effectively reinstates the empire and more or less returns all of the OT main cast to where they were before A New Hope, just old. TFA also discards the chance to see a rebellion turned government, which would have a whole slew of problems of its own. It made seeing a modern Jedi Order very unlikely and, destroyed any chance of us seeing the old gang together one last time. Fuck TFA. I am so pissed that so many fans just give it a free pass to shit on TLJ or TROS. But that's not what I was talking about. I'm saying that even if Luke got discouraged, even if he felt the need to go into self imposed exile, he is not at his core a person who would do nothing. Not when his friends and family were in danger, which he knew about because he effectively caused it. TLJ even sort of acknowledges this as he presents himself as the hero, Luke Skywalker, one final time. He's a person. He makes mistakes. But he also tries to fix them. Even if its dumb, even if it'll probably back fire, he tries to do something. I cannot accept Rian's interpretation of Luke.
@@the_boar_king8990 completely agree. Left the theater pissed while everyone else stood up and clapped. The way a great story was turned to crap, with thunderous applause.
What if being the chosen one and fulfilling the prophecy meant destroying the Jedi order and the Sith. He helped kill many Jedi and saved Darth Sidious, then later killed Darth Sidious. Bringing balance to the force doesn't exactly mean make one side (the light side) a whole lot stronger/numerous than the other.
Bro this is fantastic!! You were so articulate, and your voice instills interest in its audience, and your insights were just wonderful. Thanks so much!
I don't think Yoda wants Luke to kill Vader without knowing he's his father? That's not the primary motivation. I think it's that both Yoda and Obi-Wan are scared that Luke will be influenced by Vader if he knows the truth... Still not the best, but not contradictory to Yoda's "never for attack"
Yeah, Yoda did use the word "confront" for what Luke has to do with Vader, not "destroy" or "kill", I think Yoda might have been a little ambiguous on how it was going to work out, but was trying to trust in the Force (and in Luke's unindoctrinated point of view) more like Qui Gon would have. It was Obi-wan who responded to Luke's "can't kill my father" with a defeatist shrug, but he was probably dealing with the guilt of not having the stomach to kill Anakin on Mustifar (if we read the scene retroactively post-prequels :)).
I don't think Obi is being overdramatic. 20 years before he couldn't kill his friend, his brother. As a result of that failure he created something even worse. His previous mistakes cloud his judgment and he doesn't want Luke to same the mistakes. He won't say that out loud because he has ptsd and is very ashamed of himself.
The Clone Wars Season 5 final story arc, the Ahsoka Fugitive arc, really shows what the point of the prequels is. Heck, even the trial of Ahoska Tano really solidify Luke's point. And then the middle 4 episodes of The Clone Wars Season 7 also shows how the Jedi lost their way in the days of old through the eyes of the civilians, losing their legendary status. The aforementioned four episodes was a story of Ahsoka meeting the Martinez sisters during her journey away from the Jedi order. And at the end of the arc, Martinez sisters, who despised the Jedi now, viewed Ahsoka like a true Jedi like in days of old. I suggest giving The Clone Wars a watch. It's one of the most important pieces of the Star Wars mythology and canon.
@Robert Ortiz-Wilson Believe I understand what you mean. I simply meant that I thought this person did a good job presenting himself on his thoughts...I didn't mean based on content.
@Robert Ortiz-Wilson Yeah not. The film has to be easily digestable and universal for all audiences. It can't go deep diving into scrutinized details; it leaves lot of things open for intepretation. Amiguity in Star Wars... Very rare indeed. The movie was fine in my opinion.
No it seemed like most of the people who agreed with this video paid absolutely no attention to the prequels or just didn’t watch them and said they did.
Oh my god, this, THIS! This is why I love the last Jedi! Best portrayal of the Jedi ever! Luke skywalker, the legend, lives on. And that’s the true legacy of the original trilogy. That’s the biggest love letter to the original Star Wars movies ever written, and I’ll never forgive the Star wars fans that convinced people that it was somehow disrespectful to the rest of Star Wars. It’s a long ass love letter to the star wars saga, and to Star Wars fans themselves. They that little boy at the end of the film. “The force doesn’t belong to the Jedi, it belongs to all of us.” That’s literally him saying that you, too, could be a Jedi. So is Rey’s parents being nobody; he’s saying that it doesn’t matter who you are, you could be the chosen one too. Ryan Johnson wrote a love letter to everyone in the cinema, and he sure as hell ain’t writing another one of those after all the bullshit fans have blamed him for.
Luke tried to murder his nephew in his sleep, and when Kylo killed all his students, he ran away and hid like a coward. That's on top of TFA resetting all the heroes progress back to zero.
@@basedchimera5859 Considered it, left his room, walked all the way to Ben's room, turn on the lightsaber, and raised. Sounds like more than just consideration.
Damn, I wasn't a big Last Jedi fan, but you make a beautiful case for it. Really give a lot of clarity, and provide a deeper meaning that many of us missed. Now I need to re-watch TLJ. Great video!
He is wrong. I don't know to what extent Ryan Johnson was a fan or how knowledgeable he was of the previous star wars films or lore, but his take on Luke Skywalker left a huge plot hole on his decision for exile. The way I see it, the main agenda of the sequels were to have kennedy, abrams, and johnson to go on a business venture to get rid of the old and start a fresh franchise with new iconic characters to fuel the star wars money pit further. The Last Jedi might have justified your apparent perception the Jedi brought in the prequels and original trilogy, but it didn't save the prequels or bring closure to the them. You mention how apparently Yoda and Obi were training and manipulating Luke to kill and end Vader's grasp on galaxy. Yes, Mace Windu did almost give into the idea of killing Palpatine without a trial, but they were at war and he was a ranked soldier in the field of battle. But Luke represented Hope and rebirth of the old ways of the Jedi. Humble, forgiving, and emphatic Jedi. I believe Yoda and Obi wanted Luke to find his own way, to lurk, and get lost in the gray area of choices of life and to find his way in the balancing of the force. This film forgot that it's about bringing balance between good and evil. Not totally eliminate evil. Luke and his friends brought balance in ROTJ. But, Luke, Rey, Yoda and Kylo in the last Jedi destroyed any type of connection they as Jedi might have had with the Jedi's of the prequels and left an unnecessary plot hole to a Jedi's sudden change of perception to discipline or ancient Jedi philosophy. Yes the Jedi were a failure, and right and wrong is not always one sided. Their is a lot of gray area between good and evil, but in a civilization and governmental policies there can only be two. Yes or no, right and wrong, with me or against me, and for or against. Choice ultimate is very binary. Just like Luke's gaze of the binary star system. Ultimately his only choices were to stay home or go on a poetically justified adventure. Even the sith are only 2. To explain, a gray area lies between yes and no or right or wrong, the gray area is a road or path of obstacles, scheming, a matter of sub choices, or influence that will lead you to one outcome, yes or no, evil or good. All the jedi's choices and schemes led them to their down fall. All of the scheming and dark power of the emperor led the sith to their downfall. Star wars isn't necessarily about how much who's right or wrong, but man did Johnson really did abuse that concept in the Last Jedi. He showed how much every character was wrong about their path and very little on who was right. If at the end good was to always prevail then.... Why Johnson, abrams, and kennedy??? Why?? Why did you guys do Luke and Kylo sooooo wrong. Practically, Luke's legacy now is that he was a grumpy old cynical realist. Kylo was crying lil female dog. Rey an OP Karen. And the emperor was a necromancer zombie from Skyrim. Therefore, the Last Jedi did't save the prequels, but in a way made them worse, because now old and new fans have to realize that it took the Jedi along time to learn from their mistakes...but why?? Why did it take Luke 60+ years to learn or even Yoda, who's more than 900 yrs? The Last Jedi doesn't make any sense as much it does giving your money away for MEDIOCRE.
@@bobby7777 You are failing to realize that the Jedi were never about balancing light and dark, they were all about repressing any darkness or emotions from within themselves in order to maintain control and order. They would take children from a young age so that they were easier to brainwash to believe such nonsense, this is the real reason Anakin was "too old" and failed miserably... same thing for Luke who also was too old. In a way Luke followed his father's path of seeing the Jedi for what they truly are and then instead of choosing to rule the galaxy he chose exile. It makes perfect sense, and the only reason it wouldn't make sense is if you were to only accept the original trilogy as canon, but even then you would have to ignore the weaknesses of Obi-Wan and Yoda. Yoda taught some good teaching, like trying to avoid your fears so as to not go to the dark side of the force. However instead of trying to avoid fear there needs to be a support system to overcome your fears to achieve true balance. Unfortunately I do not believe he hit that lesson very well with simply saying "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." That is not a way to achieve balance in the force, and unfortunately this was the Jedi way... and it became their downfall.
Great video. This perfectly sums up one of the reasons I love TLJ. While there are flaws, as there are with all movies, this is my favourite of the sequel trilogy and perhaps the whole saga as I love the exploration and development of the star wars world and characters it presents. The themes and the way they are presented and explored truly made me leave the cinema feeling fulfilled and thoughtful not just about this movie but all those that preceded it without ruining them and my love for them. And that's what I wanted but didn't expect going into a star wars movie. But I was pleasantly surprised and it still makes me happy to rewatch and think about further. Thank you for discussing this with us.
"While there are flaws, as there are with all movies". I've addressed that no movies are 'perfect' and so pointing out one character choice does not disprove everything I've said. I believe your opinions on these movies can be valid but comments such as these do not make me doubt mine at all. I will be happy to discuss though as J love movies and looking into various opinions. Apologies this is a bit of a long comment. Save the horses and abandon the children. I agree that it seems quite the opposite of noble to do that. But consider this. That escape riding the animals was dangerous and it seemed likely that if children were to also attempt to ride them to safety, they would fall off and be trampled to death. Not all kids, but some and this may have led to the decision to keep them from the dangerous escape that Finn and Rose were struggling to pull off without the kids tagging along. Saving the creatures had a lower chance of danger as the animals had full control of themselves and were the cause of the havoc. Some may have been attacked and hurt or killed but they were stronger and less likely to survive being left in captivity plus served the purpose of assisting the escape. A morally grey area where I believe the choice was justified although some may disagree. I believe they had the intent of disrupting the corrupt system by ending the war and returning to save the kids once the business that was funding the city (war) was gone. Gamble with a child's life and leave his mother to slavery. I have to assume this is TPM although my comment was primarily focused on TLJ. My thoughts on that are that Qui-Gon put value on saving a young, innocent life if he could only save one as opposed to both. Imagine if he took a mother out of slavery and left the kid instead. He could have freed both by force but Qui-Gon seemed more violent as a last resort and opted to leave and return later. He knew Anakin was strong with the force and had raced before and that the force would guide him. Whether he won or not, he had faith Anakin was strong enough to avoid death or even heavy injury. Not to mention, the Jedi are separated from love at a very young age and he probably could not empathise too much with losing a mother as he would have been too young when removed from his to remember. While I'm sure he wanted to save both, and if I remember correctly he tried to win both from the gamble but could not mind trick or convince, I do believe he decided to take the victory of freeing Anakin as the best non-violent outcome.
@@ManOfStamp38 Oh yeah, let's save the children and let them to live in the jungle with the horses. There's no way anything bad would happen that way! Even better: why don't we put all of the children in our ship and drag them to a suicidal mission on a warzone? Yeah, we are being hunted across the galaxy, but we are definitely the best people to take care of all those children right now!
Asaptaco imo the clone wars makes the era better but the prequels worse, so many interesting stories to tell and characters we love yet they’re all completely absent from the movies we got
Clone Wars > Rebels > Resistance Needless to say, Disney needs to sell Star Wars to someone or a company that actually cares about the canon and fandom. Kathleen Kennedy should have been fired years ago, especially after TLJ hit theaters.
I like how my opinion on that movie changed 180 over the last year or so. My stupid little ass hated it at first, because I didn't think at all about what it was trying to portray. It's only when I actually looked at it critically, with the help from video esseys like this one, was I truly able to appreciate it. Though the negative side is that now I dislike the other movies much more, specially the newest one, damn how dumb that one is, it's like it was written by the comment section.
Michael Dromes You're not the only one. Force Awakens feels like it satisfied the short term where as Last Jedi was about the long game. Over the years more have grown to not just like Last Jedi, but to truly love it. Where as Force Awakens has remained as a 6-7 for most. A standard redo of New Hope.
I personally see no reason to jump from one side to the other. There are things about The Last Jedi that I can appreciate, but it doesn't change the fact that there are things about it that I will never see eye-to-eye with. I can appreciate the meta approach to Star Wars that TLJ brought to the table. And I agree with all points made about the Jedi in that movie. The theme of failure was just fine as well. But Luke's portrayal...they just went too far. Failing as a Jedi? Thats cool, it reinforces what he learned about his predecessors. Failing as a teacher? Also cool. He has more to learn. Re-connecting with his dark instincts, and nearly killing his nephew? Throwing his father's lightsaber off a cliff? Overkill. Not nearly enough visual exposition to be justified in any way. No matter what anyone says(and I've watched dozens of pro TLJ videos), my mind cannot be budged on this matter.
I always love these posts. Because they are so obviously fake that I laugh my ass off at them. No, TLJ is only worse since it was released. Do you know why? Because it is an illogical mess that leaves the finale with nothing to work with.
I am beyond impressed with this analysis. To tackle the Prequels and TLJ is no easy task, but you've done it masterfully here. I'm 25 so I also grew up with the Prequels and their lore (as well as the New Jedi Order stuff obviously) and it's so refreshing to watch an essayist who understands what the prequels were attempting to do. Your point about Luke defying his masters and ending the cycle of violence is excellent, and the way you cut together those clips from TLJ gave me chills. I can't wait to see more from you! :)
This is the first video i have watched of yours, and i’m barely halfway through. I just want to, right off the bat, tell you how much i appreciate that you dig deep past the “bad writing” critique and actually analyze what’s not blatantly told. The best advice i have received when writing has been “show, don’t tell” and “trust the reader”, and i think you nail the role of the audience by going way past the surface, even if, as you said, the storytelling itself was messy. I’ll go finish the video and subscribe.
Thank you!! Finally someone that understands the themes and messaging of the Last Jedi. I don't know how many countless times I've tried to explain this exact stuff to people on the internet and in real life. Will be using your video to help with that from now on!!
Don't waste your time. People have already made up their mind about how they feel. Changing their stance not only costs energy, it also is a way of admitting defeat to them since it implies that they weren't smart enough to figure it out themselves. (Most) people are shit.
THANK YOU! I have believed this for so long and finally someone has put it into words. I've always found the prequels far more interesting to watch if you view it through the lens of the Jedi having totally lost touch with what the Jedi are and should be. I mean - they are upset about Palpatine taking power in the senate but then they turn around and want to take it for themselves. They are not peacekeepers anymore, they are a military force. I could go on and on about all these fantastic elements in the prequels that just don't quite reach the point they were striving for. I really believe if those movies had just gone through a couple more re-writes with some new eyes, especially on the dialogue, they had the potential to be one of the greatest trilogies of all time.
But they would’ve been right...he was an evil sith who was behind the whole fucking war and even when they didn’t know he was a sith they still knew something was up. And hell yeah they were arrogant and all that but Luke saying it isn’t brilliant because the prequels already showed it remember?????????
The Clone Wars tv show did this already. Also the Knight fo the Old Republic especially. There's literally the two games and a comic series devoted to how out of you he he Jedi are, even way back then. Doesn't matter if they're canon or not, they already explored this topic very well.
The dialogue is fine! Once you understand what ego really is, (its not just being cocky), then you realize just how much ego comes into play when characters talk with eachother.
When I first saw the thumbnail I was like oh god another shill defending the last Jedi, but after watching and listening I see your point and it’s very true great video keep it up! Good job Bringing up points other’s do not when they bash the sequel trilogy not to say it isn’t flawed.
Every Star Wars movie is flawed. It’s not a good ideology to walk into videos like these with “this dude’s a shill” in the back of your head. Try to keep an open mind.
Jasper to be fair there are so many actual shills out there it’s hard not to have that thought at the back of your head. A lot of videos defending the film ignore its flaws and treat it as if it’s as good/better than OT and Prequels when it’s simply not. This video was interesting tho
At the end of the day though, our interpretation of Star Wars is different among each other. You are free to like what you want, no one should every sway your decision. Learning to respect but also gain insight from others perspectives (but that's never gonna happen in a ganbase like this). 🥺 I understand there's objective flaws but at this point can anyone define what's subjective and objectively wrong and right? Does anyone know what Star Wars should be? 😂 🤷🏽♂️
@@nickmcmurray3130 Just because someone really likes something doesn't mean they're blind to its flaws. Part of the reason why fans so passionately defended this movie is because it was panned upon release. At that time, the fans, and even cast and crew were endlessly harassed over this movie in an extremely harsh and unfair manner. *Of course* people who liked TLJ have a stronger need to defend why they liked it, and diving more into its flaws won't help their case. They get so much shit for it as is, myself included.
This is exactly why I hate the sequels: they bring old ideas already told a thousand times in legends and in the expanded universe and just execute them poorly and people like this dude say "woooohooo look at how amazing and creative this movie was and how it fInAlLy explains how the jedi were bad" The truth is simple: NO Have you ever heard the tragedy of the expanded universe ? I thought not. It's not a story Disney would tell you. The old expanded universe was a story so powerful and so rich in history that it had the ability to address even the most slight details in the movies. It could tell you stories beautiful from all parts of the galaxy, all parts of history and all factions. You could understand the sith , feel the honor of a mandalorian, fight for hope in a seemingly impossible battle against the empire, find your way through the galaxy after the death of the emperor, try to save your family from the genocidal tyrannical jedi and their unfaced clones who are ravaging your planet for siding with the separatists, swear revenge on the jedi who have expelled you from the order because you wanted to learn more, fight the risen sith empire as a spice runner and have the dark secret of actually being the descendant of Luke Skywalker, find out about you actually being the sith lord that caused all the chaos in the first place and fight to stop your old student....and this is just the tip of the iceberg. This is star wars. This is what I love about star wars: everything has a story and you get all points of views if you are actually interested. Bow please my friend do never dare to compare the last jedi to anything related to star wars. Because it is not
Gabriel P. Not mine, you gotta remember not everyone reads the expanded stuff, and quite frankly the sequels arent nearly as bad as you “hardcore” star wars fans. You guys are just mean.
@@donfnm6559 that's for sure, but the point is that there are certain rules in star wars that you can't just ignore, like tlj did. Or that force healing thing in an otherwise very good star wars film, tros. I'm just thinking, why do you scrap the eu to then make a cheap copy of it. They took everything from us away, from the dark empire series to the entire old Republic and now, with tros, starting to bring it back, because there own stuff didn't work out as good. That's what's really annoying.
@@donfnm6559 and sorry, but every true fan has read at least parts of the star wars lore, or played the video games -> the expanded universe because that is what made star wars
Man I just found your channel randomly but I gotta say I love what I see and could see you going somewhere with this, your editing, audio and cuts are super clean, your script is really good and like compelling and I can relate to you really well, u definitely got a subscribe and hope you get more man
Jedi: guardians of peace and justice for over 1000 generations and try to stop the sith at every turn and were only defeated by unforeseen betrayal. Sith: Blow up planets. Jake Skywalker: Fuck the jedi.
No goddamn it, the Jedi fucked up really bad once in 20,000 years so let them stay dead and let the First Order destroy multiple planets and kill your best friend and family and shit 😂
While I don't agree on every point (mainly Obi-Wan and Yoda), this is arguably one of the best written and reasoned pieces in the wider Star Wars discussion. Not to mention that it talks about things you love without throwing something else under the speeder bike. Excellently done.
@@rdnick114 Technically there were actually more like two dozen still around at that point, but the Jedi Order was definitely destroyed, and so far it appears it will remain that way.
Soo, Yoda did tell Luke he needed to face Vader, and they told him who Leia was before as well. You can look at it the way you presented yes, and I believe that the Prequels were intended to present how the Jedi at the height of their power were blinded but George Lucas always wanted the Jedi to be the ultimate good In the universe. I did like the part of Episode 8 where it explained the fall, because I and other cannon sources has always suggested that, but to believe that Luke realized that and then just gave up instead of trying to create a re-vamped order is what sucks about it.
Why do so many star wars fans want to see Luke as completely infallible and can do absolutely no wrong? The point is is that everyone is prone to failure, even one of the most powerful jedi. It makes the character far more realistic and relatable. Also, Luke did try and create a re-vamped order, then lost faith after Kylo Renn and then finally realised his failure and decided to learn from it and rectify it! That is a proper character arc and that is what makes Luke (or any character) all the more heroic in my eyes.
@@MrTubbyturd I understand, really I do. The problem I have is not with Luke having failures. The problem is after he realized his failures he just suicided and he did not say anything about creating a Jedi order that does not fall into the same trap. Instead he just says he will not be the last Jedi. So he failed, realized why he failed, then went right back to believing in the system again. I was hudgeee going to TLJ on wanting Luke to bring Gray Jedi or something like it into cannon. But I feel like we just got the same song and dance with a depressed Luke Skywalker.
@@Paid2Kill73 I mean, he says "I will not be the last Jedi" and Rey has all the Jedi texts by the end. I always thought the idea of her eventually continuing the Jedi order was pretty implicit.
@@houston-coley Right I agree. That is why I am not sure we got a story in TLJ that follows through on the premise presented that the Jedi order was flawed and needed to change.
@@Paid2Kill73 Yeah I see what you are saying now, but I believe that the point of the film (and this video) was that Luke realised that, despite the flaws of the jedi and the jedi order, it is their legacy and legend of being good that is more important than whether they actually were
I really enjoyed the last jedi but honestly this video has moved me to love it i enjoyed it after watching and let internet saltiness make me bitter so thanks!
I agree. I think Rian Johnson took the prequels seriously, and I’m fine with that. I’m old enough to remember my disappointment at Return of the Jedi because I expected Luke to simply kick ass, like in a western. He did - a bit, but he also did a lot of talking. It turned out that what he said was more important. But... teenage me wanted Luke to go ballistic! George Lucas wanted Luke to reach through Darth Vader & find Anakin Skywalker. The prequels didn’t especially make me happy about that, but Rian Johnson did, by reframing the entire Jedi mythology. I appreciate that so much.
You know, now that I realized, the guy that tells Finn to "live free, don't join" is what would've happened if Luke continued to follow down that path. He believed the winning side to be Finn and Rose when they escape Canto Bight, but then immediately switched sides when they get caught, which is why he said he "cut a deal". Then he got slammed by Holdo's ship, he's probably dead or I don't know where. If Luke just let the First Order take over, eventually he will be on the next hit list as they are literally hunting for him throughout their rise.
I'm an OT Star Wars Gen-X old-timer and I always thought the Prequels possessed a deep, solid backstory. The fact that people are still talking about them years later is a testament to that. I also enjoyed TLJ. BTW, I went to college with Rian Johnson - Didn't really know him well but I have a vague recollection of him in one of my classes (the unconventional spelling of his first name probably stood out for me). And oh yeah, nice Zoom H4N Pro there :)
Wow, I think you nailed it. Very insightful. My wife and I were discussing your points as we watched, and I must say awesome thesis, comparison and analysis!
This is a really good analysis that goes over most moviegoer’s heads. Instead fans get obsessed about the rehashed StarKiller Base or Holdo’s Lightspeed and forget the real story of the 9 movies.
Damn this changed my whole perception of the Sequel trilogy. As a fellow Prequel loving millennial I always knew that there was a good story in the prequels. This totally changed how I saw ALL the trilogies.
@Kevin Cobb dude Canto bite is a bad part of the movie it's message is not hard to understand it is not subtle it is in your face the rest of the movie is awesome but don't defend that it's just a mediocre side plot
@Kevin Cobb we must start to talk about.... We must MUST. What the hell are we talking about here the Canto bite is hated because of the bad pacing the idiotic things that happen during it and the fact that it has a message about animal cruelty how does that have to do anything with the message of the movie about failure it doesn't further more don't act like it's the first time we are introduced to slaves the God DAMN chosen one was a slave
This is one of the most important Star Wars videos ever, I always had that feeling that TLJ had some sort of deeper meaning but I hadn’t taken the time to time to actually rewatch it. I’m glad to see more open minded videos such as this to see the good side of both the prequels and interesting take on the new sequel trilogy. Although it looks like we’ll never get a Star Wars movie to translate that message perfectly
The issue is that many people in TLJ dismiss luke as out of character or an idiot when he calls the Jedi failures. This movie had many problems and was rightfully disliked by many. Unfortunately that means the few decent parts of it such as this get ignored.
Indeed. I personally like Luke's perspective of the Jedi in TLJ. Literally, one of the only things I like in the movie. Luke became a wise historian, which I always thought made sense for his character. Two of many things that I cannot reconcile however...is that Luke's first instinct is apparently to kill his psychologically tortured nephew. We got no visual exposition to justify this. Also, Luke tossing his father's lightsaber off a cliff. Even if Luke was disillusioned with the Jedi, he would not tarnish his father's legacy like he did. Hes just not that kind of person. TLJ had an edginess factor that overshadowed the wisdom that it was trying to portray. It was far too heavy-handed. Hate to break it to Rian and his fans, but sometimes it pays to make things more digestible if you want to get a point across. Alienating fans is not the way.
Awake Now Luke never went in to Ben’s room with the intent to kill. Many seem to completely misinterpret the context of this entire scene to death. Luke sensed a disturbance within Ben and went into his room to check on him. He reached into Ben’s mind and realised that he was completely or almost corrupted by the dark side of the force and foresaw a vision in which Ben would destroy EVERYTHING Luke worked so hard for to protect so he instinctually activates his lightsaber(instinctually is a key word). However upon doing so, he was met with immediate shame and guilt, by the time he realised it was too late.
@@cynicalmemester1694 EXACTLY. And like he said, "it passed like a fleeting shadow". Ben just saw it at the wrong time. Luke Skywalker Is HUMAN and I don't understand how people don't see that.
they dismiss him as out of character because he became a coward after his hero's journey was completed, totally conflicting with the character we see refusing to kill his father and becoming what he idealized as "a jedi", the beacon of hope, the hero we all loved.
Heyyyyy! Happy New Star Wars Weekend. As always, the controversy and debate around these movies is getting pretty heated - but I wanted to take today to celebrate something I love, not fight something I hate. This video is part of a huge UA-camr collaboration called *Star Wars Defined!* If you wanna get in on the whole thing, you can make your own video and send it to BrowntableEntertainment@gmail.com to have it added to the playlist. Even if you don't make a video, let me know your favorite Star Wars movie scene in the comments. I'm hoping for some really surprising takes.
Check out the *Star Wars Defined* playlist here: ua-cam.com/video/ISrVe4uUXZg/v-deo.html
I already love TLJ and you made me love the movie even more with this.
That’s the genius about good writing it doesn’t spell things out. Think about this; George also sold Attack of the clones as a love story. When in reality Attack of the clones is a story about a disturbed kid that has an obsession with a woman from his past.
Point 1: everything Anakin does was made fun of as something no one would behave that way. But in reality when you look at peoples behaviors on UA-cam they act pretty much the same.
There are also psychological aspects of what future murders go through. Many killers start killing small animals. That’s something he relates to his future wife. They are like animals so I slaughtered them like animals.
On top the obsession story. Sure there can be love in his heart but if he didn’t have the force I don’t think he would have ended up with his obsession.
The way their love is always described is always linked through his emotions towards her through the force. In essence she would feel emotions he does. He grooms her sort of. Of course there is also the factor of him being good looking and well in the real world we have such individuals like ted bundy that lure women with out the force. Can you imagine him having the force. There is also his status of an accomplished person can’t say that women wouldn’t find that sexy. Remember women don’t date down they date level status or up.
In the end though I think he does love her his infatuational love is not healthy. Of course you can’t sell that type of movie to Hollywood you put that as an undertone.
if u wach star wars the clone wars ashoka expeling from order u knew it back then
As you said, about the prequels...great story, poorly executed. The TLJ is this a thousand times over.
@@simplythebest2k DISAGREE
Dude those LEGO ads gave me an intense nostalgia blast
Oh, I have a bad feeling about this
Oh! You are here...
I don’t sense anything
Notice how obi wan says that if he doesn’t kill Vader than the emperor has already won. Yet the emperor’s plan is also for Luke to kill Vader
Obi Wan was correct, even though this had the potential to serve the Emperor.
@@connorism69 Obi-Wan was wrong. Vader's death was irrelevant. If anything it removed a powerful threat to Palpatine's control.
Exactly, originally Obi-Wan was wrong. But Jar Jar Abrams in The Rise of Skywalker resurrected the Emperor and had Rey defeat him (again) in order to make *her* the chosen one instead of Anakin, which makes Obi-Wan correct after all.
@@edwardmiessner6502 which practically f* up all of the good stuff in the story, that the jedi was ultimately wrong, they and the sith were practically the same and this was showed in other media, like SW rebels and Clone Wars.
Geralt of Trivia TLJ helps here too. In the Kylo/Rey/Snoke throne room scene, Snoke could predict every move they were both going to make, and only lost because he thought he knew what Kylo "killing his true enemy" meant. If not for that one weird trick, Snoke effectively had complete control over Kylo when he was in his vicinity.
Palpatine was doing the same thing, sitting comfortably while unarmed because he could see everything they were going to do. If he hadn't foreseen Vader deflecting Luke's saber, he would have killed Vader on the spot for betraying him.
In Cloud City, far from the Emperor, Vader and Luke had an opportunity to team up, but once they were back in his sight, it was too late.
"The Jedi in the Prequels are arrogant and Pious and full of superiority complexes."
Except for my boi Qui-Gon Jinn
Jinn leaves behind slaves!
And it was his death that solidified the beginning of the fall of the Jedi
Qui Gon was the worst. He happily tore Anakin away from his mother because of a blood analysis, told him to suppress his emotions and did nothing to stop the slavery of Shmi, though he was a Jedi with a lot of official and unofficial power and he could have freed the others.
@@spartanparty3894 Agree but I think Lucas meant to redeem him when he dies at the end.
@@darkthorpocomicknight7891 well then he failed.
Even though I'm not a fan of TLJ, I do agree that the scene when Luke dispels the myth of jedi as arrogant and indignant that led to their downfall is brilliant.
Id take 1000 generations of peace if it means 1 bad one.
Yeah but he didn’t have to cuz you know....the prequels already did.
Nathan Drake Yeah, but Rey doesn’t know that. He was explaining it to her, since they live in a universe that idolizes the Jedi.
This video clip is just proof positive millennials don't understand Star Wars. Luke was regaling that story to Rey from his own POV, that was framed in fear. Something that he admitted to in Episode IX. As Obi-Wan told Luke many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view, and that what Luke was doing. The scene wasn't to illustrate that the Jedi Order=bad it was to demonstrate that Luke as we once knew him, was gone and a spiritually defeated person, and that after his academy was destroyed he started questioning his own faith, and even disconnected from The Force entirely.
@@tw19771 Bah.
"As a man, I'm flesh and blood. I can be ignored. I can be destroyed. But as a symbol, as a symbol I can be incorruptible, I can be everlasting."
MetalForTheMasses yeah but symbols are corrupted and forgotten all the time. That’s my problem with TLJ it tried to dispel the typical hero story but it doesn’t work imo.
-Bruce Wayne, 2005
@@fifthlife55 It doesn't - Luke saves everyone at the end.
@@fifthlife55 How does it "dispel" the myth? Luke SAVES everyone at the end. Its about reconstructing the myth - Luke acknowledges failure AND becomes a hero with knowledge
MetalForTheMasses man thank you so much for that you literally made my day!
A UA-cam channel: Talks positively about any Star Wars movie that isn't in the OT
Everyone else on UA-cam: Wait that's illegal
@Film Toppings
Yeah, real talk, I love the prequels and even I had reaction.
The prequel hate is so loud, I'm left thinking us prequel lovers are heretics of the fandom.
Houston: “We don’t talk enough about how bad the Jedi are”
Matpat: “Hold My Theory”
That's pretty heavily covered in the prequels.
@@Elyndyr The entire point of the Prequel Trilogy was to show how the Jedi Council of that time failed the Jedi Order, not that the Jedi Order is bad. The only 2 true Jedi we see in the films are end of RotJ Luke and Qui-Gon.
@@macggnore The way I see it is they,the Ot and the sequels show that Jedi doesn't mean good and sith doesn't mean evil or irredemable.
@@6ve0tx2hbmogcz3 Lucas has made very clear that Jedi are good and Sith are evil. However, being a Sith is redeemable. Lucas' vision for society is for people to make more thoughtful choices and rely less on emotional response. The Prequels show how the Jedi of that time failed a young, emotional boy who has experienced trauma. They taught Anakin to suppress his emotions instead of mastering them as Luke did in RotJ.
This might be the most friendliest comment section ive seen in such a long while
After Rise of Skywalker a lot of people are realizing Last Jedi really wasn't as bad as they thought it was.
On a Last Jedi video nonetheless
That's because he's curating his comment section.
Maybe because TLJ haters have had a year to re-judge the film more thoroughly, while admitting their own biases. And vice versa
@@revimfadli4666 Actually I started out loving the movie but after rejudging the movie I realise the "haters" have some really valid points. There was a lot going well for this movie, but having Luke ready to kill a child and a family member was way too far into making him an anti hero or whatever. The Finn Rose stuff doesn't work. The Poe Leia stuff seemed like a force plot point. The lightspeed suicide mission does kinda recontextualise past movies as stupid for not thinking of it. It really doesn't set up a third movie either. Rian had great ideas but I think he chose the wrong time to insert them into a movie. Although overall it's Disney's fault for not having a planned trilogy anyway.
“How THE LAST JEDI Saves The Prequels”
_So you have... chosen death._
tlj was the worst thing that have ever happened to me as a new star war fan, I'm not like the hardcore ones but after tlj, i stopped caring about sw until "The mandalorian" I haven't seen tros...and won't see it until it comes on tv or netflix or dvd...
@@auotukun872 you hate tlj than you probably will like tros
It's treason then..
@@ItsMeBarnaby this is the biggest reason I didn't like TROS
Tlj saved the prequels by being so bad they looked good by comparison
We need more fans like this... who are able to see beyond crappy writting/direction and contextualize what is a great story. The Saga was great, it's not perfect but it was great and all three trilogies carry their own theme. The force is strong in this one! XD
Delusional.
Ok woah woah woah yoda never says you must kill darth Vader to luke. He says “you must confront him”
Just wanted to clarify that because that kinda triggered me you said that
Very true! But Obi Wan wanted Vader dead since he considered him to be very very dangerous.
But obi wan says it. No? Because luke says "I can't kill my father" and obi responds "than the emperor has already won"
Mxracer6y yes. Obi wan wants him defeated and dead. Yoda doesn’t advocate death; just confrontation
Also technically Luke did kill Vader and brought back Anakin
Obi-Wan tried to save Anakin and in Revenge of the Sith even told Yoda he didn't want to face him. His mercy and reluctance to kill Anakin then lead to years of the galaxy being terrorised by Darth Vader. Hence he was trying to get Luke to avoid the same mistake.
The clone wars TV series is completely dedicated to the failure of the Jedi.
exactly, came to the comments to find this comment thank you
Multidox Media
I assume you haven’t watched the entire show. It’s values and themes are distinct yet powerful. I suggest you give it another watch. :)
Multidox Media looks like enough people watched it since a 7th season is coming in 2020.😁
subscribe to pewdepie spread the word
Not everyone has seen it, but most of us have seen the main movies.
And "Kyle Katarn", go away and stop using that name. You're not worthy.
*Darth Sidious, telling Anakin to kill Count Dooku:* “He’s too dangerous to be left alive.”
Anakin: “It’s not the Jedi way...”
*Mace Windu, about to execute Darth Sidious:* “He’s too dangerous to be left alive!”
Anakin: “.....”
That’s all, folks!
Remember the scene where Mace Windu says the Jedi will have to take over the senate if Palpatine refuses to hand over emergency powers? Makes him seem awfully power hungry. Revenge of the Sith clearly illustrates Palpatine and Mace Windu as two characters who aren't so different from each other.
do you not understand that this was done on purpose?
Jan Wouter *No shit.*
Sam Warren not power hungry. It makes him afraid.
wow nice find
The Clone Wars also helped save the Prequel Era.
Well said, the "Era"
The Prequels are definitely bad movies, and not even Clone Wars can save the movies.
If the movie is bad, nothing can save it
@@o...o4144 I love the prequels tbh. They may be cringey but BAD movies? I mean, there are some scenes with bad dialogue but the story, lore and characters that it gave us? "But oh, Annoying Kid 47, Hayden is such a bad actor-"
Even if he was we would still have Dooku, Kenobi, Sheev, Qui Qon Jinn, Mace Windu, Bad-ass AND wise Yoda, Grievous and more.
@@mv9370 Yeah the thing about Yoda in the prequels is that he's the complete opposite of wise also Qui Gon isn't that interesting. It's not the first time we get a grey jedi. Like the guy in the video says, the prequels' story is great. There's no doubt on that. It was just executed poorly and that's why a group of fans doesn't like them. Because if Anakin Skywalker's descent into the dark side had been told as well as the OT . The prequels could have been a true masterpiece.
Annoying Kid 47 Enzo is a sequel fan which is why he’s attacking the prequels lol
The Clone Wars are the prequels if you think about it.
Interviewer: why you glorify gore in your movies?
Quentin Tarantino: because Hollywood already glorified violence in cinema, by making the hero killing bad guys like the noble warrior when in reality he is just as awfull as the villain. You got James Bond killing millons of extras just to save other millons of extras, you got Rambo killing a lot of soldiers like an American hero ignoring that he is a disturbed psycho, and you have luke skywalker killing millons of people from the dead star like heroic goal insted of a terrorist attempt. Hollywood always loved violence, it's just that I'm more honest with the violence and the types of characters I wrote.
That's what i always thought, after seeing how some movies/series take killing or not killing as a very important factor to the character (especially superhero movies) i hate how in star wars movies (as much as i adore them)make killing so simple, Luke kills and has a lot of fun with it, Finn kills storm troopers with no second doubts even tho he was one of them, as much as i liked the idea of a storm trooper turning good and making storm troopers feel human (finally)they still ruin it a bit by slaughtering them with such violence, they enjoy killing for some reason, if Luke kills storm troopers with so much fun than what makes Vader any different? Yes he is his father but if he didn't know thay he would've tried to kill him. I would've liked at least one scene where star wars characters feel sad for their enemies or feel bad for killing them
I love star wars but no movie or franchise is perfect
@@Whateveridksomething they even say it in Rick and morty: "lets make it like Star wars where its More fun killing people without feeling sorry"
@@motor4X4kombat XD i love that I'm almost done with season 2, this show is outstanding they take big risks with the comedy
@LyfiePlus the problem Is that the big epics like dune, game of thrones, hell even avatar and Lord of the rings (despite this one beeing a human vs orcs story) theres always an exploration on human morality making the characters More humans despite then living in a fantasy world. An Star wars most of the Time reject that to give us a Lot of good vs evil action scenes. Even if they explore a little bit of that, like in the clone wars, they still blew up with the main characters hipocresy. My favorite Is that scene from CW when barris says that the jedi only believe in violence to solve everything follow by anakin with two lightsabers ready to kick her ass... Oh and i forgot to mention this bitch at that point blow up an entire building and blamed Ashoka. Yeah questioning morality my ass you are still making excuse for More good vs evil action scene, and i like clone wars but come one thats pretty stupid.
I think Qui-Gon's lack of trust in the Jedi Council was probably designed to work towards the fallibility of the Jedi, but again like you said it was executed poorly and that is kinda lost
Thats exactly why I rank qui-gon as the 2nd best Jedi, only beneath luke
@@electricpants8194 EU luke, not this trash
Obi Wan el numero uno
@@YOSTINATOR but who trained obi wan
The Clone Wars already saved the prequels in my opinion
They did indeed.
Dylan Reilly
They make the prequels, at least the prequel era, so much better. I also love the Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars.
TCW helps a lot to make Anakin's breaking away from the Jedi Order appear less sudden by showing in-depth how and why he gets more and more disillusioned with the order.
@@shadowcat1606 if only TLJ Luke had a similar treatment...
@@revimfadli4666 more details would have been nice, sure, but just as Anakin's development it also stood perfectly fine on its own for anyone bothering to think about it
I love the idea of re-contextualizing the prequels as Luke reading the Jedi texts after Return of the Jedi and just being like "Yo, what the fuck?"
I can just imagine how pissed Luke willbe at Mace Windu! That baldy was one messed up guy!
@@geetadhumane5793 "What was the problem with these guys?! They suspected Palpatine was up to some shit but still did what he wanted at every turn! These guys must have been blind, incompetent, or both! Maybe the Jedi shouldn't be in charge of the force if they're this stupid."
@@geetadhumane5793 Why did you bring up Mace Windu, of all the Jedi? What is it with you Star Wars fans who tend to scapegoat Mace for every bad decision that the Jedi made, including Obi-Wan and Yoda?
“Point of View” does matter for a character’s own perspective
Yeah, but Obi-Wan's statement about Vader killing Luke's father was a lie from any point of view.
@@Yibambe. It is though. Vader isn't even physically the same as Anakin. Especially the Vader in the originals. He is full of hate, anger, and resentment from the years in the suit.
“What I told you was true... from a certain point of view.”
Point of view isn’t relevant when the facts show it wasn’t someone’s thoughts letting them to perceive something other than the facts
@@shaneyy__ "Ben what the actual fuck?"
Watch The Clone Wars.
At the end of Ahsoka's "The Wrong Jedi" Arc, you'll be cheering for Order 66.
Working with stronger storytellers, all the incredible themes Lucas gave us in the Prequels are expressed in much stronger ways through that series.
You're right, but I don't think I'd cheer for Order 66
Same
The Clones Wars always reminds me how good Lucas was at creating stories
Agreed
While the Clone Wars showed the failures of the Jedi, such as with Ashoka, being forced to follow the orders of the Senate at times, not believing Fives about the conspiracy, or even choosing to still trust the Clones after they found out Dooku helped create the Clone Army, it also showed their good, the way they helped, whether it be saving the people of Ryloth from the Separatist, saving the Togura people from the Zygeria Slavers, and so on. The series shows us both the good and the bad of the Jedi and while their own arrogance did lead to their downfall that doesn't change all the good they did in the galaxy, inspiring many people either directly or indirectly from the myths into wanting to do the right thing.
As Ezra told Kanen in Star Wars Rebels about what he taught him beyond Lightsaber and Force abilities, "I'm not talking about being a Jedi. I'm talking about being kind and a good person. That is what you taught me."
So we can learn a lot of good from the Jedi of the past, but also we can learn to not repeat their mistakes. In fact, Luke kind of did this in the EU when he reformed the Jedi order after episode 6 in the old Legends, where he carried on several of the old Jedi traditions and lessons, but also allowed for changes, like allowing Jedi to get married and form attachments, just so long as they trained to control their emotions so they wouldn't consume them as Anakin's did. In fact, in that regard Oobi-Wan in the Clone Wars is a Jedi like that when Maul took over Mandelor, he went their and defied the Council and Senate's orders to save the women he loved Satine, but he failed and Maul killed her, but when he did, despite being overcome with anger and sorrow, he didn't let it consume him, because he knew if he did Maul would win and he would not be the man Satine fell in love with.
Qui-gon had so much distain for the Jedi order and he expressed it very openly. He wanted to fulfill the prophecy and in retrospect it seems like he totally knew it meant they will be nearly wiped out. If always two there are, a master and an apprentice, and the Sith were two while the Jedi had thousands in their ranks, then restoring balance to the force means wiping out the Jedi order and ending up with two Sith and two Jedi. Considering this, it's no surprise that the Jedi weren't too keen on fulfilling this propechy.
That is not how balance in the force works. It is a common mistake. But the Dark Side in Star Wars is kind of like the cancer cells of the universe. If your health is balanced, does that mean you have an equal amount of cancer cells as white blood cells?
@@babyyoshi3099 The thing about properchies is that they're purposefully vague and can be interpreted in numerous ways. If the prequels start out with thousands of Jedi roaming the galaxy and the Sith thought to be extinct, why does the force need balancing to begin with?
@@ShirDeutch That is fucking brilliant. How has no one ever thought about that before?
@@ShirDeutch Well Darth Maul was in the first movie. So they knew the Sith were still around, but you still make a fair point. That is kind of a plothole.
Also, the prophecy was meant to describe when Vader threw Palpatine off and killed him (which is kind of ruined by bring Palpatine back in ROS, but not going into that). The Jedi had no idea it would result in them being disbanded. Also, I don't remember the source, so I can't point you to it. But George explicitly said balance means the destruction of the dark side/sith.
I do like your theory though, it just does not really hold up.
Qui-Gon didn't express much of anything openly at all, and that's sort of the problem. We're told he's a rebellious iconoclast. Yet from the actual actions he takes in the movie, other than saying "look, I'll just do it without permission" he's... exactly like every other Jedi.
And then came episode IX, kinda undoing this vision of Luke
@Marcus well JJ did not agree apparently. Probably the best movie out of the 3, but undoing every strong claim Johnson made in ep8
I'd disagree, Rey while struggling to control herself ends up showing Ben compassion by selflessly healing him. Finn is shown to be driven by empathy throughout the film and hinted at as at least slightly force sensitive, those are presented as tied together. Leia sacrifices herself for her son. Ben selflessly sacrifices himself to save Rey, completing the circle of Anakin being unable to save Padme because he was motivated by selfish possessive love rather than selfless sacrifice. Luke didn't really contradict anything he learns in 8. Rey even refuses to strike down Palpatine in hate or anger, and when she did defeat him it's out of self sacrifice. She never even hits him, she (and ask if the Jedi) basically just reflect all of his (and all of the Sith's) hate back into him with compassion as symbolized by the lightsabers of the 2 most compassionate skywalkers (that trained and supported her even though she was from that dark lineage as Luke says). She ends up dying (nearly) because of her selfless sacrifice.
The movie actually very cleverly uses the whole force heal thing to signify this selfless sacrifice theme. Poe wants to shoot the snake but Rey chooses to give some of herself instead to heal it, BB-8 even gives a little of his energy to charge D-0 after seeing what Rey did, Leia sacrifices herself for Ben, they reinforce that Han gave his life for Ben, Rey gives some of herself for Ben, and Ben gives his life for Rey. If anything TRoS doubles down on the "save what we love" rather than "fight what we hate" compassion and selflessness themes. Which imo ties directly into what he discussed.
@Marcus Kylo has no army? He literally just became the Supreme Leader of the First Order in TLJ. The fleet that got wrecked was not the entire force of the First Order.
@@hargibson18 Couldn't have said it any better myself.
@@hargibson18 Hi Harrison. My "undoing the vision of Luke" was meant in the sense of what he thought of the Jedi order before and the Force as equilibrium. I found very interesting that Johnson put this EU concept (I would say the most famous character were Revan and Traya, to think of the Force this way), and followed the logical order explained in the video. IMHO, ep9 "kinda" undoes this Luke to represent an ep5 Kenobi version of him because there is no follow up, just an "All-Jedi vs All-Sith" which is motivated by the fact that Palpatine is the Great Evil of the Saga, not something else. I agree that the Force Heal can be seen in this way, for Anakin flaws exc, but I don't think compassion is a new concept. Luke himself refused to strike down his father for compassion when seeing his artifical arm he realized they were the same. Compassion just lost vs the fear of the dark side that devoured the old Jedis and Luke between ep6 and ep7, because he was taught this way, and I would have loved a development of this new concept, a new vision of the Jedi order based on a balance instead of just "pure light side". In this way I think that ep9 has not a lot of courage and plays safe, but still, my opinion.
It was already clear that the prequels were about the Jedi's downfall ,due to arrogance, and the rise of Vader. Old Luke saying that the Jedi failed and were arrogant definitely is not the first person nor the first SW character to...
OG triology: "YAY JEDI ARE PERFECT AND AWESOME!"
Prequels "The Jedi as an organization are extremely flawed and those flaws led to their downfall"
TLJ: "The Jedi as an organization are extremely flawed and those flaws led to their downfall"
ROTS: "YAY JEDI ARE PERFECT AND AWESOME!"
😂 my how time has recontextualized things. I remember how for years Star Wars fans complained about how awful the prequels were...and now they are romanticized, deified...not unlike the Jedi 😉
TROS does not make the Jedi of old (as an organization) be right. Rey will give them a new beginning.
But one of the arcs in TLJ is that the Jedi, mainly just Luke and Yoda, realize how they have messed up in the past, and that allows Rey to redeem them in RoS. So it still works for the most part.
Stephen Jenkins The whole reason they keep him off screen for almost all of the first movie is because the moment he stepped into the movie, it would become all about him. The Sequel Trilogy was always going to have the original cast as supporting players, instead of leads.
jakeyboy851 No, I think it’s just that Lucas was never much good at dialogue that sounded like real people were saying it. When Hayden’s doing a scene where he is quiet, he demonstrates good skill.
You left out the whole part about why the Jedi were fighting in the first place in the prequels! It was in order to defend the republic from the Separatist droid invasions; never about their "eager[ness] to be militarized." This is illustrated by the fact that Obi Wan in episode III on Mustafar says "Anakin, My allegiance is to the republic, to democracy!" Notice how he doesn't refer to the Jedi order, power, or greed, but to peace, prosperity, and liberty, that the republic brings, and thus the reason he must confront Anakin. You made it seem like the jedi in the prequels were conquest driven. Yes they were arrogant, but that is their tragic flaw. They are still heroes, but similarly to ancient Greek myth, their tragic flaw leads to their demise.
"The Clone Wars have always been, in and of themselves, from their very inception, the revenge of the Sith. They were irresistible bait. They took place in remote locations, on planets that belonged, primarily, to "somebody else." They were fought by expendable proxies. And they were constructed as a win-win situation. The Clone Wars were the perfect Jedi trap. By fighting at all, the Jedi lost."
@@nelisezpasce Even though they fell for the trap, it doesn't make them any less heroic...
@kevin willems By the sith Lord emperor Palatine. Not the Jedi!
@kevin willems How could you make that assumption? The first episode was called the Phantom Menace because the sith were hiding in the shadows like "phantoms" (ghosts) since no one knew who was pulling the strings. Your point of that they "could have known" is simply absurd given the fact that the whole premise of the first movie was that they didn't know! The thing about slavery still being legal was also brought up in the first place by Padme, one of the movies biggest supporters of the republic. The Jedi were against slavery, even freeing a slave boy. The only reason slavery was legal on Anakin's planet was that it was far away from the republic's control. Notice how when Watto was offered republic credits by Qui-Gon Jinn for a ship he said, "those are no good out here." Dude I think you need to rewatch the first few movies and then tell me what you think.
@@johnmontello9464 Yes the premise is that the jedi didn't know, but that doesn't mean that (in universe) they shouldn't have known or suspected anything about the "phantom menace" that was (quite literally) right next to them. This is very, very explicitely shown in the scene at the end where Yoda and Mace talk to eachother during Qui-Gon's funeral and the camera pans over to Palpatine.
Furthermore, as you said, the thing about slavery being illegal was brought up by PADME, not by the jedi. The jedi accept the fact that slavery exists outside of the Republic and therefore isn't under their control while Padme is clearly shaken by it. The jedi took Anakin because they thought he was exceptionally gifted in the force and therefore interesting to them, not because they wanted to save a kid from slavery. The Republic itself isn't what's being portrayed as "bad", it's the jedi who are portrayed as selfish and arrogant. Those are two distinct groups.
One of the things I noticed on my constant rewatches of revenge of the sith is how Mace Windu repeats one of palpatines lines from the beginning of the movie. “He’s to dangerous to be kept alive”.
Lucas admits that - scenes rhyme with one another
there's even a theory about it - the ring theory
ua-cam.com/video/BaC198j9pIw/v-deo.html
That was the line which snapped Anakin righta away
I've had this in my mind for 2 years and finally, someone said it. THANK YOU!!
Dude, what a wholesome takeaway from episode 8! Star Wars needs more fans like you!
Fans who sit down and analyze deeply to understand what was meant to be told rather than to make their opinion be the only rightful voice in star wars??? Haha, good luck with taking that people and make them be less like that and more like him.... We can only wish
Disney needs more consoomers!
@Robert Ortiz-Wilson I have to disagree. Saying that you don't need TLJ because of the points you've made is only in relation to your perception and understanding of the series. Not everyone that watches these films are the hardcore fan type, or the type to analyse and understand films as much as you might. You have to remember that a franchise as huge as Star Wars has to pander to the casual viewer, and those that might not be so lets say... switched on.
@Joel Stock yeah.... only if you completely forget about the existence of Pink Hair Ladys Arc, Rose, Leia Poppins, Rey aka Mary Sue and 90% of the rest, then you can get to that takeaway....
Stephen Jenkins agreed
My feelings on TLJ haven’t changed. But my opinion on Luke certainly has. What I thought made the movie worse actually made it better. I still don’t like TLJ, but you’re absolutely right in this video. I now appreciate how Luke was portrayed.
I mean yeah, 2 thirds of that movie still suck but Luke's character and the ideas surrounding him have really started to grow on me
Joseph Najarian Mark Luke's story in Last Jedi was beautiful.
@@daninbox Mark Hamill disagrees.
Joseph Najarian i agree too. This was well made! I hated last jedi too stupidly because I didn’t get that epic fight with Luke. But I’m not much of a big Star Wars fan when I saw it last jedi with my siblings in theaters. Now I get why people think the last Jedi is good.
@@furious_malic7808
He addressed ONE scene.
And then interpreted the fight by it.
Why is his opinion on Luke more relevant than Mark Hamills? Who still hates this character?
I don't believe either of you actually disliked the Last Jedi.
And you are some weak willed persons if this little video changed your opinion on the whole film.
He addressed less than a full minute of Luke's dialogue and actions in the movie.
And The Rise of Skywalker retconned most of what Rian did with Luke because most fans don't agree.
Man not only TLJ is exposing critics, but the high passionate of fans that they're missing the point of TLJ.
Why haven’t you uploaded since this video? I miss your content bro
The prequels are the epitome of a good story told badly.
@PinkGuy VEVO Two of the sequels are some of the best movies in the franchise. Although this latest one sounds like a bad story told well.
@PinkGuy VEVO Same with the originals too
@@genyakozlov1316 how could you say something so controversial yet so brave
I actually meant to say "two of the SEQUELS" are some of the best movies in the franchise. Although I'll admit that other people who aren't simply reactionaries don't like The Force Awakens as much as I do.
Soulless rehash as it is, it succeeds at what Phantom Menace failed at, and while it's messy, it feels like what a Star Wars first entry should be.
@@genyakozlov1316 That's too real xD
i dint think the prequels were ever that subtle about it but the fact that so many people need to have everything spelled out in the most obvious way for them also explains the bad reception of TLJ itself.
I wish this comment made sense
@@supermysticsonic2 Coming from the Sonictard incel.
@ Shut the fuck up loser.
Or maybe it was the plot holes, the OJ chase in space, the entire casino mission or the overzealous attempt to be woke. Or maybe it was the overzealous attempt to “subvert expectations.”
@@Wicked_Trojan i dont like most of the casino that much myself but one story line doesnt ruin a movie.
other than that there are no plot holes. the film just doesnt spell everything out for you and wants you to think. every subversion makes sense and has a reason for the story. therefore you should think about your expectations instead of critiquing a film for not following a nonesensical fanfiction of yours, as seen with tros.
This is the best analysis I’ve ever seen since the sequels came out. People nowadays just like to trash everything all over social media and complain about stuff, instead of focusing on the positive. It’s so overwhelming 🙄
I am an original fan from 1977. I am twice your age, then. And I say, young man... that was effing brilliant.
The Force is strong in you. Thank you for this.
I don’t know how it happened, but somehow I agreed with literally every word spoken in this video
_”Contrary to popular belief, the message is not ‘Let the past die.’ Kylo Ren says that. _*_He’s the villain.”_*
THANK YOU!!!! You can’t believe how many people I’ve heard hate this movie over that one misunderstanding
I've seen many people defending the movie use this same logic
That line just highlights the entire movie's had about character consistency
A good point I missed myself.
Lady Wanderer Consistent with the tone of the movie? With all due respect, doesn’t the movie end with Luke telling Kylo he is wrong for wanting the past to die, and that the Jedi will live on?
TLJ still remains the worst SW movie out of all. All these explanations are made for little kids. Its obvious that the prequels show the jedi failure, the fact that its told in episode VIII doesn't make the movie better.
The problem with the prequels is more in details, the fact that Anakin's mother was abandoned for no reason by the Jedi and the republic, its so strange and shows Jedi's being dumb AF. I dont know why Lucas made it look like that. But their blindness is shown quite good, their blind believe in the prophecy brought them to the end, as did their desire for power, they lost their way.
So there are some little details remained unexplained and strange for me, but AS A WHOLE BIG story the prequels are great and make a lot of sense.
What doesn't make sense are the sequels, that dumb shit doesn't explain anything, this movies just throw shit at you with no explanation
WTF happened to the new republic?
Where the fuck this 1st order came from?
WTF is the new Republic army or smthg
Why the "good" guys are still called the resistance while technically the 1st order are the rebels
These are just little stupid questions you have to ask yourself while watching the sequels
nobody gives you the background (how did it all came to this, what s really going on in the galaxy exc)
I can remember the world before the prequels and I still think Revenge of The Sith is one of the best Star Wars movies. The prequels never needed saving.
What about the other two prequel films though?
They did.
To me, the prequel films, video games, and The Clone Wars show demonstrated to all of us that the Clone Wars era was the best era of the Star Wars universe. The droids, Jedi, Sith, and clone troopers were so interesting. Seeing all the different planets was cool, too. I honestly couldn't care less about Empire vs. Rebels 2.0.
+Geralt of Trivia In the OT, they were making all of it up as they went along, so don't pretend and act like everything was planned out right from the get-go. Star Wars was not supposed to be even a trilogy. It was one film, which was successful, and they later transitioned it into Episodes IV, V, and VI.
Mace Windu wanted to kill Palpatine for having control of the courts was to show that the Jedi were hypocrites, much like how they are represented in The Clone Wars show.
"instead of just ending RotS with him going "failed, I have" which was too little, too late."
That's not what happened. In Revenge of the Sith, Yoda failed to defeat the Emperor on Coruscant, in efforts to prevent the Galactic Empire from taking over before it could begin, but that wasn't the end of the film. He spoke to Obi-Wan about the ability to commune with Jedi force ghosts. It is revealed that Qui-Gon was the first Jedi to find a path to immortality.
It's why Obi-Wan was able to become a force ghost in Episode IV. The Clone Wars show fleshed out the prequel characters more than any of Disney's trash could ever hope to attempt to achieve. J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson have no business touching anything that has anything to do with Star Wars ever again.
"Yoda's scene in TLJ single-handedly fixes his character by being aware that he changed"
Neither Yoda's or Luke's character ever needed fixing. Their arcs were fine the way they were presented in the OT. In TLJ, they made Yoda seem so goofy and stupid around Luke, despite being with him on that island for years. Jedi force ghosts can't magically cast down lightning from the sky, either. The whole scene was so fucking stupid. Yoda's arc was complete in Return of the Jedi. The prequels obviously take place before the original trilogy, which is like 20 years before the Galactic Civil War.
The Jedi were presented as being flawed, stagnant, and complacent in the prequels. That was their ultimate downfall, which Palpatine took full advantage of. We didn't need to doubly understand this plot point via Empire vs. Rebels 2.0. It was already shown, rather than told. That's part of the many reasons why TLJ is trash. The fall of the Jedi via Order 66 and the politics in the prequels was brilliant. Flawed? Yes, which is why The Clone Wars show better helps to flesh everything out. The sequels, on the other hand, unravel the OT and almost everything the characters learned and achieved in Episode VI.
@KlingonCaptain
Interesting opinion since you implied that you saw the original trilogy first.
Yoda also realized this by the time of Star Wars Rebels when he tells Ezra that the Jedi became what they swore to destroy.
This is what I’ve noticed and loved about the prequels that it actually enriched the original story. While the Jedi were drunk on power in their prime their main failure for me was teaching Padawans to suppress their emotions rather than manage them. Naturally with his traumatized Anakins life is, he needed that guidance that was never afforded to him. What makes Luke the hero in the originals is now more clear thanks to the prequels. The Jedi still in EPS and RoTJ have not learned their lesson and try to train Luke the same way they did his father, by suppressing the attachment Luke has to his father. Luke, however does what Anakin never could, because Luke was raised in a healthy environment of love thanks to his aunt and uncle was already able to understand and manage emotions. Therefore he goes against the Jedis order and instead of suppressing his emotions he manages them. First by using anger to fight Vader and then by choosing love to redeem his father. What I love about this is Anakin needed to learn that skill that Luke had already and with the Jedi refusing to help him caused him to turn to the dark side as palpatine was more than happy to give a certain amount of guidance to him. The prequels show the Jedi downfall and the original show a failed and desperate Jedi once they realize they have a new hope in Luke. Luke finally uses emotion to get though to Vader and allowing him to fulfill the prophecy.
So, I got this via the algorithm [ which is kinda the point of _One Marvelous Scene_ & _Star Wars Defined_ ]
At first, I was a bit mad at how obviously young you are [& I'm not even that old].
But damn. Not only was that a very good analysis of both the prequels and TLJ, not only do you understand the point of TLJ, not only do you clearly appreciate Star Wars as a whole, but you also managed to talk about Episode 8 without _any_ vitriol.
I love TLJ, but I really think that even amongst those who agree with me the conversation always gets heated.
For the first time in a while, you've given me hope for the fandom. I _will_ like & share your video. 👍
But the issue is, Luke already learned that lesson. Houston even points out, explicitly, that Luke went against the advice of Yoda and Ben in Episode 6, that it worked, and that they gave their implied approval of his decisions. Why would he then immediately pick up on teaching people the same way the old Jedi Order did? Luke's entire character is centered on compassion and self-sacrifice. He's the guy who would run unprepared into an obvious trap for his friends. He wouldn't abandon them to do fuck-all on some remote planet even if he felt a bit down about finding out about the truth of the Jedi. If he left because of his own failures as a teacher than it seems to me he would attempt to bring them back to the light, and most likely die trying. That's who Luke was. An explicit acknowledgement of the Jedi's flaws was, evidently, necessary but Rian Johnson did it wrong. The sequels, all of them, were just entirely wrong.
@@the_boar_king8990 My guess is that he only learned how flawed the Jedi way was by teaching it himself. At first, he had to take inspiration from the old Jedi order because that's the only one he knew about and at the end of RotJ he still idolized the Jedi. But in the wake of his failure with Ben he clearly came to the realization that the old Jedi ways are deeply flawed. And he hid away on the a remote island because he was deeply ashamed for the way he acted that night, that's always how I saw it. I've said it before but I really appreciate how RJ humanized Luke in TLJ.
And besides, it was JJ who put Luke on that island. So if you're gonna blame anyone, blame him.
@@Denjeanification I absolutely blame JJ. The Force Awakens, in my opinion, is the worst of the three because it simultaneously demolishes the legacy of the OT and squanders all of its potential. It destroys the New Republic, effectively reinstates the empire and more or less returns all of the OT main cast to where they were before A New Hope, just old. TFA also discards the chance to see a rebellion turned government, which would have a whole slew of problems of its own. It made seeing a modern Jedi Order very unlikely and, destroyed any chance of us seeing the old gang together one last time. Fuck TFA. I am so pissed that so many fans just give it a free pass to shit on TLJ or TROS.
But that's not what I was talking about. I'm saying that even if Luke got discouraged, even if he felt the need to go into self imposed exile, he is not at his core a person who would do nothing. Not when his friends and family were in danger, which he knew about because he effectively caused it. TLJ even sort of acknowledges this as he presents himself as the hero, Luke Skywalker, one final time. He's a person. He makes mistakes. But he also tries to fix them. Even if its dumb, even if it'll probably back fire, he tries to do something. I cannot accept Rian's interpretation of Luke.
@@the_boar_king8990 completely agree. Left the theater pissed while everyone else stood up and clapped. The way a great story was turned to crap, with thunderous applause.
What if being the chosen one and fulfilling the prophecy meant destroying the Jedi order and the Sith. He helped kill many Jedi and saved Darth Sidious, then later killed Darth Sidious. Bringing balance to the force doesn't exactly mean make one side (the light side) a whole lot stronger/numerous than the other.
Bro this is fantastic!! You were so articulate, and your voice instills interest in its audience, and your insights were just wonderful. Thanks so much!
I don't think Yoda wants Luke to kill Vader without knowing he's his father? That's not the primary motivation. I think it's that both Yoda and Obi-Wan are scared that Luke will be influenced by Vader if he knows the truth... Still not the best, but not contradictory to Yoda's "never for attack"
Yeah, Yoda did use the word "confront" for what Luke has to do with Vader, not "destroy" or "kill", I think Yoda might have been a little ambiguous on how it was going to work out, but was trying to trust in the Force (and in Luke's unindoctrinated point of view) more like Qui Gon would have. It was Obi-wan who responded to Luke's "can't kill my father" with a defeatist shrug, but he was probably dealing with the guilt of not having the stomach to kill Anakin on Mustifar (if we read the scene retroactively post-prequels :)).
4:04 I’ve always loved how overly dramatic obi wan is here
Same. It’s totally that defeatist “only a Sith deals in absolutes” talk that he always advises against.
I don't think Obi is being overdramatic. 20 years before he couldn't kill his friend, his brother. As a result of that failure he created something even worse.
His previous mistakes cloud his judgment and he doesn't want Luke to same the mistakes. He won't say that out loud because he has ptsd and is very ashamed of himself.
The Clone Wars Season 5 final story arc, the Ahsoka Fugitive arc, really shows what the point of the prequels is. Heck, even the trial of Ahoska Tano really solidify Luke's point. And then the middle 4 episodes of The Clone Wars Season 7 also shows how the Jedi lost their way in the days of old through the eyes of the civilians, losing their legendary status. The aforementioned four episodes was a story of Ahsoka meeting the Martinez sisters during her journey away from the Jedi order. And at the end of the arc, Martinez sisters, who despised the Jedi now, viewed Ahsoka like a true Jedi like in days of old.
I suggest giving The Clone Wars a watch. It's one of the most important pieces of the Star Wars mythology and canon.
Wow - if this was a school project, that would be an A.
@Robert Ortiz-Wilson Believe I understand what you mean. I simply meant that I thought this person did a good job presenting himself on his thoughts...I didn't mean based on content.
@Robert Ortiz-Wilson Someone obviously didn't get the movie LOL
@Robert Ortiz-Wilson Yeah not. The film has to be easily digestable and universal for all audiences. It can't go deep diving into scrutinized details; it leaves lot of things open for intepretation. Amiguity in Star Wars... Very rare indeed.
The movie was fine in my opinion.
I love this, it seemed like most fans didn't get it.
No it seemed like most of the people who agreed with this video paid absolutely no attention to the prequels or just didn’t watch them and said they did.
Oh my god, this, THIS! This is why I love the last Jedi! Best portrayal of the Jedi ever! Luke skywalker, the legend, lives on. And that’s the true legacy of the original trilogy. That’s the biggest love letter to the original Star Wars movies ever written, and I’ll never forgive the Star wars fans that convinced people that it was somehow disrespectful to the rest of Star Wars. It’s a long ass love letter to the star wars saga, and to Star Wars fans themselves. They that little boy at the end of the film. “The force doesn’t belong to the Jedi, it belongs to all of us.” That’s literally him saying that you, too, could be a Jedi. So is Rey’s parents being nobody; he’s saying that it doesn’t matter who you are, you could be the chosen one too. Ryan Johnson wrote a love letter to everyone in the cinema, and he sure as hell ain’t writing another one of those after all the bullshit fans have blamed him for.
Luke tried to murder his nephew in his sleep, and when Kylo killed all his students, he ran away and hid like a coward. That's on top of TFA resetting all the heroes progress back to zero.
@@ManOfStamp38 he didn't try he CONSIDERED
@@ManOfStamp38 yoda also hid like a cowawrd
@@basedchimera5859 Considered it, left his room, walked all the way to Ben's room, turn on the lightsaber, and raised. Sounds like more than just consideration.
@@basedchimera5859 It was dumb there too. Luke created a monster and let it run loose on the galaxy while he wallowed in self pity.
Damn, I wasn't a big Last Jedi fan, but you make a beautiful case for it. Really give a lot of clarity, and provide a deeper meaning that many of us missed. Now I need to re-watch TLJ. Great video!
He is wrong. I don't know to what extent Ryan Johnson was a fan or how knowledgeable he was of the previous star wars films or lore, but his take on Luke Skywalker left a huge plot hole on his decision for exile. The way I see it, the main agenda of the sequels were to have kennedy, abrams, and johnson to go on a business venture to get rid of the old and start a fresh franchise with new iconic characters to fuel the star wars money pit further.
The Last Jedi might have justified your apparent perception the Jedi brought in the prequels and original trilogy, but it didn't save the prequels or bring closure to the them. You mention how apparently Yoda and Obi were training and manipulating Luke to kill and end Vader's grasp on galaxy. Yes, Mace Windu did almost give into the idea of killing Palpatine without a trial, but they were at war and he was a ranked soldier in the field of battle. But Luke represented Hope and rebirth of the old ways of the Jedi. Humble, forgiving, and emphatic Jedi. I believe Yoda and Obi wanted Luke to find his own way, to lurk, and get lost in the gray area of choices of life and to find his way in the balancing of the force.
This film forgot that it's about bringing balance between good and evil. Not totally eliminate evil. Luke and his friends brought balance in ROTJ. But, Luke, Rey, Yoda and Kylo in the last Jedi destroyed any type of connection they as Jedi might have had with the Jedi's of the prequels and left an unnecessary plot hole to a Jedi's sudden change of perception to discipline or ancient Jedi philosophy.
Yes the Jedi were a failure, and right and wrong is not always one sided. Their is a lot of gray area between good and evil, but in a civilization and governmental policies there can only be two. Yes or no, right and wrong, with me or against me, and for or against. Choice ultimate is very binary. Just like Luke's gaze of the binary star system. Ultimately his only choices were to stay home or go on a poetically justified adventure. Even the sith are only 2.
To explain, a gray area lies between yes and no or right or wrong, the gray area is a road or path of obstacles, scheming, a matter of sub choices, or influence that will lead you to one outcome, yes or no, evil or good. All the jedi's choices and schemes led them to their down fall. All of the scheming and dark power of the emperor led the sith to their downfall.
Star wars isn't necessarily about how much who's right or wrong, but man did Johnson really did abuse that concept in the Last Jedi. He showed how much every character was wrong about their path and very little on who was right.
If at the end good was to always prevail then.... Why Johnson, abrams, and kennedy??? Why?? Why did you guys do Luke and Kylo sooooo wrong. Practically, Luke's legacy now is that he was a grumpy old cynical realist. Kylo was crying lil female dog. Rey an OP Karen. And the emperor was a necromancer zombie from Skyrim.
Therefore, the Last Jedi did't save the prequels, but in a way made them worse, because now old and new fans have to realize that it took the Jedi along time to learn from their mistakes...but why?? Why did it take Luke 60+ years to learn or even Yoda, who's more than 900 yrs? The Last Jedi doesn't make any sense as much it does giving your money away for MEDIOCRE.
@@bobby7777 You are failing to realize that the Jedi were never about balancing light and dark, they were all about repressing any darkness or emotions from within themselves in order to maintain control and order. They would take children from a young age so that they were easier to brainwash to believe such nonsense, this is the real reason Anakin was "too old" and failed miserably... same thing for Luke who also was too old. In a way Luke followed his father's path of seeing the Jedi for what they truly are and then instead of choosing to rule the galaxy he chose exile. It makes perfect sense, and the only reason it wouldn't make sense is if you were to only accept the original trilogy as canon, but even then you would have to ignore the weaknesses of Obi-Wan and Yoda.
Yoda taught some good teaching, like trying to avoid your fears so as to not go to the dark side of the force. However instead of trying to avoid fear there needs to be a support system to overcome your fears to achieve true balance. Unfortunately I do not believe he hit that lesson very well with simply saying "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose." That is not a way to achieve balance in the force, and unfortunately this was the Jedi way... and it became their downfall.
That was truly beautiful. Thanks for the new outlook on the Last Jedi, I needed it!!!
Great video. This perfectly sums up one of the reasons I love TLJ. While there are flaws, as there are with all movies, this is my favourite of the sequel trilogy and perhaps the whole saga as I love the exploration and development of the star wars world and characters it presents. The themes and the way they are presented and explored truly made me leave the cinema feeling fulfilled and thoughtful not just about this movie but all those that preceded it without ruining them and my love for them. And that's what I wanted but didn't expect going into a star wars movie. But I was pleasantly surprised and it still makes me happy to rewatch and think about further. Thank you for discussing this with us.
Save the horses, abandon the children.
Jon Stamper gamble with a child’s life, leave his mother to slavery
@@MichaelSmith-rn6pq Sucks there too. Doesn't save TLJ, especially when you realize those horses were probably recovered in less than a week.
"While there are flaws, as there are with all movies". I've addressed that no movies are 'perfect' and so pointing out one character choice does not disprove everything I've said. I believe your opinions on these movies can be valid but comments such as these do not make me doubt mine at all. I will be happy to discuss though as J love movies and looking into various opinions. Apologies this is a bit of a long comment.
Save the horses and abandon the children. I agree that it seems quite the opposite of noble to do that. But consider this. That escape riding the animals was dangerous and it seemed likely that if children were to also attempt to ride them to safety, they would fall off and be trampled to death. Not all kids, but some and this may have led to the decision to keep them from the dangerous escape that Finn and Rose were struggling to pull off without the kids tagging along. Saving the creatures had a lower chance of danger as the animals had full control of themselves and were the cause of the havoc. Some may have been attacked and hurt or killed but they were stronger and less likely to survive being left in captivity plus served the purpose of assisting the escape. A morally grey area where I believe the choice was justified although some may disagree. I believe they had the intent of disrupting the corrupt system by ending the war and returning to save the kids once the business that was funding the city (war) was gone.
Gamble with a child's life and leave his mother to slavery. I have to assume this is TPM although my comment was primarily focused on TLJ. My thoughts on that are that Qui-Gon put value on saving a young, innocent life if he could only save one as opposed to both. Imagine if he took a mother out of slavery and left the kid instead. He could have freed both by force but Qui-Gon seemed more violent as a last resort and opted to leave and return later. He knew Anakin was strong with the force and had raced before and that the force would guide him. Whether he won or not, he had faith Anakin was strong enough to avoid death or even heavy injury. Not to mention, the Jedi are separated from love at a very young age and he probably could not empathise too much with losing a mother as he would have been too young when removed from his to remember. While I'm sure he wanted to save both, and if I remember correctly he tried to win both from the gamble but could not mind trick or convince, I do believe he decided to take the victory of freeing Anakin as the best non-violent outcome.
@@ManOfStamp38 Oh yeah, let's save the children and let them to live in the jungle with the horses. There's no way anything bad would happen that way!
Even better: why don't we put all of the children in our ship and drag them to a suicidal mission on a warzone? Yeah, we are being hunted across the galaxy, but we are definitely the best people to take care of all those children right now!
Great video
changed my view of the prequels completely Thank YOU
My guess was that the Clone Wars saved the Prequels.
From my point of view the MEMES saved the prequels
Asaptaco imo the clone wars makes the era better but the prequels worse, so many interesting stories to tell and characters we love yet they’re all completely absent from the movies we got
I agree clone wars is the best and does more than last jedi
Clone Wars > Rebels > Resistance
Needless to say, Disney needs to sell Star Wars to someone or a company that actually cares about the canon and fandom. Kathleen Kennedy should have been fired years ago, especially after TLJ hit theaters.
@@lukepoe1140 except that last jedi was one of the best starwars movies
Wow, turns out, marketing has warped our views a bit.
I like how my opinion on that movie changed 180 over the last year or so. My stupid little ass hated it at first, because I didn't think at all about what it was trying to portray. It's only when I actually looked at it critically, with the help from video esseys like this one, was I truly able to appreciate it. Though the negative side is that now I dislike the other movies much more, specially the newest one, damn how dumb that one is, it's like it was written by the comment section.
Michael Dromes You're not the only one. Force Awakens feels like it satisfied the short term where as Last Jedi was about the long game. Over the years more have grown to not just like Last Jedi, but to truly love it. Where as Force Awakens has remained as a 6-7 for most. A standard redo of New Hope.
I personally see no reason to jump from one side to the other. There are things about The Last Jedi that I can appreciate, but it doesn't change the fact that there are things about it that I will never see eye-to-eye with. I can appreciate the meta approach to Star Wars that TLJ brought to the table. And I agree with all points made about the Jedi in that movie. The theme of failure was just fine as well. But Luke's portrayal...they just went too far. Failing as a Jedi? Thats cool, it reinforces what he learned about his predecessors. Failing as a teacher? Also cool. He has more to learn. Re-connecting with his dark instincts, and nearly killing his nephew? Throwing his father's lightsaber off a cliff? Overkill. Not nearly enough visual exposition to be justified in any way. No matter what anyone says(and I've watched dozens of pro TLJ videos), my mind cannot be budged on this matter.
I always love these posts. Because they are so obviously fake that I laugh my ass off at them. No, TLJ is only worse since it was released. Do you know why? Because it is an illogical mess that leaves the finale with nothing to work with.
So it’s Johnson’s fault that J.J while competent has no imagination at all?
@@Tyrantofthewind Relax, mate. It's just an opinion.
This video is so well put together and complex, instantly subscribed!
@Guest Writer I know that this movie is full of flaws, but we should also remember that things that it did well.
I am beyond impressed with this analysis. To tackle the Prequels and TLJ is no easy task, but you've done it masterfully here. I'm 25 so I also grew up with the Prequels and their lore (as well as the New Jedi Order stuff obviously) and it's so refreshing to watch an essayist who understands what the prequels were attempting to do.
Your point about Luke defying his masters and ending the cycle of violence is excellent, and the way you cut together those clips from TLJ gave me chills.
I can't wait to see more from you! :)
How’s HoustonProductions doing? I haven’t seen anything from him in a while
There will be another video very soon!
They didn't need saving.
I never knew of how arrogant the Jedi were thanks for bringing this to light
This is the first video i have watched of yours, and i’m barely halfway through. I just want to, right off the bat, tell you how much i appreciate that you dig deep past the “bad writing” critique and actually analyze what’s not blatantly told. The best advice i have received when writing has been “show, don’t tell” and “trust the reader”, and i think you nail the role of the audience by going way past the surface, even if, as you said, the storytelling itself was messy. I’ll go finish the video and subscribe.
Thank you!! Finally someone that understands the themes and messaging of the Last Jedi. I don't know how many countless times I've tried to explain this exact stuff to people on the internet and in real life. Will be using your video to help with that from now on!!
Don't waste your time. People have already made up their mind about how they feel. Changing their stance not only costs energy, it also is a way of admitting defeat to them since it implies that they weren't smart enough to figure it out themselves. (Most) people are shit.
THANK YOU! I have believed this for so long and finally someone has put it into words. I've always found the prequels far more interesting to watch if you view it through the lens of the Jedi having totally lost touch with what the Jedi are and should be. I mean - they are upset about Palpatine taking power in the senate but then they turn around and want to take it for themselves. They are not peacekeepers anymore, they are a military force. I could go on and on about all these fantastic elements in the prequels that just don't quite reach the point they were striving for. I really believe if those movies had just gone through a couple more re-writes with some new eyes, especially on the dialogue, they had the potential to be one of the greatest trilogies of all time.
I've heard that's basically what The Clone Wars cartoon is. Other people using the ideas of the prequels better.
But they would’ve been right...he was an evil sith who was behind the whole fucking war and even when they didn’t know he was a sith they still knew something was up. And hell yeah they were arrogant and all that but Luke saying it isn’t brilliant because the prequels already showed it remember?????????
Time to move those CGI capitals from Disney remakes to Prequels remakes, I guess?
The Clone Wars tv show did this already. Also the Knight fo the Old Republic especially. There's literally the two games and a comic series devoted to how out of you he he Jedi are, even way back then.
Doesn't matter if they're canon or not, they already explored this topic very well.
The dialogue is fine! Once you understand what ego really is, (its not just being cocky), then you realize just how much ego comes into play when characters talk with eachother.
When I first saw the thumbnail I was like oh god another shill defending the last Jedi, but after watching and listening I see your point and it’s very true great video keep it up! Good job Bringing up points other’s do not when they bash the sequel trilogy not to say it isn’t flawed.
Every Star Wars movie is flawed. It’s not a good ideology to walk into videos like these with “this dude’s a shill” in the back of your head. Try to keep an open mind.
Jasper to be fair there are so many actual shills out there it’s hard not to have that thought at the back of your head. A lot of videos defending the film ignore its flaws and treat it as if it’s as good/better than OT and Prequels when it’s simply not. This video was interesting tho
At the end of the day though, our interpretation of Star Wars is different among each other. You are free to like what you want, no one should every sway your decision. Learning to respect but also gain insight from others perspectives (but that's never gonna happen in a ganbase like this). 🥺
I understand there's objective flaws but at this point can anyone define what's subjective and objectively wrong and right? Does anyone know what Star Wars should be? 😂 🤷🏽♂️
@@nickmcmurray3130 Just because someone really likes something doesn't mean they're blind to its flaws. Part of the reason why fans so passionately defended this movie is because it was panned upon release. At that time, the fans, and even cast and crew were endlessly harassed over this movie in an extremely harsh and unfair manner.
*Of course* people who liked TLJ have a stronger need to defend why they liked it, and diving more into its flaws won't help their case. They get so much shit for it as is, myself included.
@@nickmcmurray3130 "as if it’s as good/better than OT and Prequels when it's simply not" - an opinion, not fact.
can someone just say thank u to this guy for mentioning Lazer sword instead of Lightsaber.
Simply put: one of the best reviews of it all and one of the best Star Wars videos ever! You’re awesome, kid! Bright future ahead!
I think that the Jedi and Sith ending would’ve been the most interesting thing that the sequels could’ve possibly done.
This is exactly why I hate the sequels: they bring old ideas already told a thousand times in legends and in the expanded universe and just execute them poorly and people like this dude say "woooohooo look at how amazing and creative this movie was and how it fInAlLy explains how the jedi were bad"
The truth is simple: NO
Have you ever heard the tragedy of the expanded universe ? I thought not. It's not a story Disney would tell you. The old expanded universe was a story so powerful and so rich in history that it had the ability to address even the most slight details in the movies. It could tell you stories beautiful from all parts of the galaxy, all parts of history and all factions. You could understand the sith , feel the honor of a mandalorian, fight for hope in a seemingly impossible battle against the empire, find your way through the galaxy after the death of the emperor, try to save your family from the genocidal tyrannical jedi and their unfaced clones who are ravaging your planet for siding with the separatists, swear revenge on the jedi who have expelled you from the order because you wanted to learn more, fight the risen sith empire as a spice runner and have the dark secret of actually being the descendant of Luke Skywalker, find out about you actually being the sith lord that caused all the chaos in the first place and fight to stop your old student....and this is just the tip of the iceberg. This is star wars. This is what I love about star wars: everything has a story and you get all points of views if you are actually interested. Bow please my friend do never dare to compare the last jedi to anything related to star wars. Because it is not
This is so true, from every point of view
Gabriel P. Not mine, you gotta remember not everyone reads the expanded stuff, and quite frankly the sequels arent nearly as bad as you “hardcore” star wars fans. You guys are just mean.
@@donfnm6559 that's for sure, but the point is that there are certain rules in star wars that you can't just ignore, like tlj did. Or that force healing thing in an otherwise very good star wars film, tros. I'm just thinking, why do you scrap the eu to then make a cheap copy of it. They took everything from us away, from the dark empire series to the entire old Republic and now, with tros, starting to bring it back, because there own stuff didn't work out as good. That's what's really annoying.
@@donfnm6559 and sorry, but every true fan has read at least parts of the star wars lore, or played the video games -> the expanded universe because that is what made star wars
@@donfnm6559 Even if i ignore the EU... the sequels are still shit and contradict Ep. I-VI, Lucas vision.
Man I just found your channel randomly but I gotta say I love what I see and could see you going somewhere with this, your editing, audio and cuts are super clean, your script is really good and like compelling and I can relate to you really well, u definitely got a subscribe and hope you get more man
I love how Vordeel's montage is playing in the background. I've been watching it on loop as well to remind myself why I love Star Wars after Rise.
Yeaaaaaaah baby, been waiting on this one!
So, the jedi weren't the good guys, just the BETTER guys...
Jedi: guardians of peace and justice for over 1000 generations and try to stop the sith at every turn and were only defeated by unforeseen betrayal.
Sith: Blow up planets.
Jake Skywalker: Fuck the jedi.
@Anson Hartzler I don't remember the jedi blowing up planets.
They were the good guys. But as they say, the way to hell is paved with good intentions.
No goddamn it, the Jedi fucked up really bad once in 20,000 years so let them stay dead and let the First Order destroy multiple planets and kill your best friend and family and shit 😂
While I don't agree on every point (mainly Obi-Wan and Yoda), this is arguably one of the best written and reasoned pieces in the wider Star Wars discussion. Not to mention that it talks about things you love without throwing something else under the speeder bike. Excellently done.
Anakin: _is the chosen one_
The Jedi: "he will bring balance to the force"
Anakin: *_kills the jedi_*
Also kills the sith (but not really...)
I mean, at the end of the prequels there were two sith and two jedi. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be. ;)
@@rdnick114 Technically there were actually more like two dozen still around at that point, but the Jedi Order was definitely destroyed, and so far it appears it will remain that way.
@@trainknut Then Darth Vader creates the inquisitors and eventually brings balance.
He brought balance in episode 6 and fulfilled his destiny so delete this comment
Soo, Yoda did tell Luke he needed to face Vader, and they told him who Leia was before as well. You can look at it the way you presented yes, and I believe that the Prequels were intended to present how the Jedi at the height of their power were blinded but George Lucas always wanted the Jedi to be the ultimate good In the universe. I did like the part of Episode 8 where it explained the fall, because I and other cannon sources has always suggested that, but to believe that Luke realized that and then just gave up instead of trying to create a re-vamped order is what sucks about it.
Why do so many star wars fans want to see Luke as completely infallible and can do absolutely no wrong? The point is is that everyone is prone to failure, even one of the most powerful jedi. It makes the character far more realistic and relatable. Also, Luke did try and create a re-vamped order, then lost faith after Kylo Renn and then finally realised his failure and decided to learn from it and rectify it! That is a proper character arc and that is what makes Luke (or any character) all the more heroic in my eyes.
@@MrTubbyturd I understand, really I do. The problem I have is not with Luke having failures. The problem is after he realized his failures he just suicided and he did not say anything about creating a Jedi order that does not fall into the same trap. Instead he just says he will not be the last Jedi. So he failed, realized why he failed, then went right back to believing in the system again. I was hudgeee going to TLJ on wanting Luke to bring Gray Jedi or something like it into cannon. But I feel like we just got the same song and dance with a depressed Luke Skywalker.
@@Paid2Kill73 I mean, he says "I will not be the last Jedi" and Rey has all the Jedi texts by the end. I always thought the idea of her eventually continuing the Jedi order was pretty implicit.
@@houston-coley Right I agree. That is why I am not sure we got a story in TLJ that follows through on the premise presented that the Jedi order was flawed and needed to change.
@@Paid2Kill73 Yeah I see what you are saying now, but I believe that the point of the film (and this video) was that Luke realised that, despite the flaws of the jedi and the jedi order, it is their legacy and legend of being good that is more important than whether they actually were
I really enjoyed the last jedi but honestly this video has moved me to love it i enjoyed it after watching and let internet saltiness make me bitter so thanks!
Don't let Thor Skywalker know LOL
This made me really think and now I have to re-watch the whole thing with a different outlook. Thank you
You just gained a new subscriber. Great vid, as a kid who also grew up with the prequels, this is special to me.
Thank you for actually making me appreciate The Last Jedi more
I agree. I think Rian Johnson took the prequels seriously, and I’m fine with that. I’m old enough to remember my disappointment at Return of the Jedi because I expected Luke to simply kick ass, like in a western. He did - a bit, but he also did a lot of talking. It turned out that what he said was more important. But... teenage me wanted Luke to go ballistic! George Lucas wanted Luke to reach through Darth Vader & find Anakin Skywalker. The prequels didn’t especially make me happy about that, but Rian Johnson did, by reframing the entire Jedi mythology. I appreciate that so much.
You know, now that I realized, the guy that tells Finn to "live free, don't join" is what would've happened if Luke continued to follow down that path. He believed the winning side to be Finn and Rose when they escape Canto Bight, but then immediately switched sides when they get caught, which is why he said he "cut a deal". Then he got slammed by Holdo's ship, he's probably dead or I don't know where.
If Luke just let the First Order take over, eventually he will be on the next hit list as they are literally hunting for him throughout their rise.
I'm an OT Star Wars Gen-X old-timer and I always thought the Prequels possessed a deep, solid backstory. The fact that people are still talking about them years later is a testament to that. I also enjoyed TLJ. BTW, I went to college with Rian Johnson - Didn't really know him well but I have a vague recollection of him in one of my classes (the unconventional spelling of his first name probably stood out for me). And oh yeah, nice Zoom H4N Pro there :)
This was excellent. Bravo.
I already loved the Last Jedi but this video is great 👍 I love how much you can learn from the last jedi
Really great video essay. Can’t think of anything that does genuine story analysis and criticism as well as this - bravo 👏
Wow, I think you nailed it. Very insightful. My wife and I were discussing your points as we watched, and I must say awesome thesis, comparison and analysis!
This is a really good analysis that goes over most moviegoer’s heads. Instead fans get obsessed about the rehashed StarKiller Base or Holdo’s Lightspeed and forget the real story of the 9 movies.
Damn this changed my whole perception of the Sequel trilogy. As a fellow Prequel loving millennial I always knew that there was a good story in the prequels. This totally changed how I saw ALL the trilogies.
@Kevin Cobb dude Canto bite is a bad part of the movie it's message is not hard to understand it is not subtle it is in your face the rest of the movie is awesome but don't defend that it's just a mediocre side plot
@Kevin Cobb we must start to talk about.... We must MUST. What the hell are we talking about here the Canto bite is hated because of the bad pacing the idiotic things that happen during it and the fact that it has a message about animal cruelty how does that have to do anything with the message of the movie about failure it doesn't further more don't act like it's the first time we are introduced to slaves the God DAMN chosen one was a slave
@@ariklion37 idiot things like...?
Awesome analysis. You and a couple other video essays recently have really changed my mind about the Last Jedi I like it now
I love how mute clips synchronize with the narration.
A gorgeous video, well done this is great ❤️👍🏻
So I’m guessing the Star Wars defined thing is similar to the whole marvelous moment with the marvel movies back in May
I thought I was the only one who saw it like this thank you amazing video!!
The lego clone wars set commercials got me really nostalgic
This is one of the most important Star Wars videos ever, I always had that feeling that TLJ had some sort of deeper meaning but I hadn’t taken the time to time to actually rewatch it. I’m glad to see more open minded videos such as this to see the good side of both the prequels and interesting take on the new sequel trilogy. Although it looks like we’ll never get a Star Wars movie to translate that message perfectly
The issue is that many people in TLJ dismiss luke as out of character or an idiot when he calls the Jedi failures. This movie had many problems and was rightfully disliked by many. Unfortunately that means the few decent parts of it such as this get ignored.
Indeed. I personally like Luke's perspective of the Jedi in TLJ. Literally, one of the only things I like in the movie. Luke became a wise historian, which I always thought made sense for his character. Two of many things that I cannot reconcile however...is that Luke's first instinct is apparently to kill his psychologically tortured nephew. We got no visual exposition to justify this. Also, Luke tossing his father's lightsaber off a cliff. Even if Luke was disillusioned with the Jedi, he would not tarnish his father's legacy like he did. Hes just not that kind of person.
TLJ had an edginess factor that overshadowed the wisdom that it was trying to portray. It was far too heavy-handed. Hate to break it to Rian and his fans, but sometimes it pays to make things more digestible if you want to get a point across. Alienating fans is not the way.
If luke hamil said he’s out of character then he’s out of character
Awake Now Luke never went in to Ben’s room with the intent to kill. Many seem to completely misinterpret the context of this entire scene to death. Luke sensed a disturbance within Ben and went into his room to check on him. He reached into Ben’s mind and realised that he was completely or almost corrupted by the dark side of the force and foresaw a vision in which Ben would destroy EVERYTHING Luke worked so hard for to protect so he instinctually activates his lightsaber(instinctually is a key word). However upon doing so, he was met with immediate shame and guilt, by the time he realised it was too late.
@@cynicalmemester1694 EXACTLY. And like he said, "it passed like a fleeting shadow". Ben just saw it at the wrong time. Luke Skywalker Is HUMAN and I don't understand how people don't see that.
they dismiss him as out of character because he became a coward after his hero's journey was completed, totally conflicting with the character we see refusing to kill his father and becoming what he idealized as "a jedi", the beacon of hope, the hero we all loved.
Wow you totally changed my mind on the last jedi. It makes more sence to me now thank you