Absolutely agreed. We commonly use these as a beginner sparring weapon with mask, as it's a great way to cheaply and safely get people fighting, and then we use it without masks for selected advanced students/instructors in specific circumstances, and just as you say, the results are quite interesting, as people really look after their head. This is amusing as so many people say these training tools do not teach people to fear the blade as one should, and yet in the maskless version it actually does a really good job of that.
Thanks, I also agree completely. The last point you mention is really quite interesting. I also get the feeling that it's not at all about how dangerous the weapon is that your fighting against - the mere fact that something could hit you in the face seems to be enough to be more cautious. I mean I wouldn't want to get hit in the face by a pool noodle either if someone swung one around near me, so it doesn't have to be steel to accomplish the desired effect!
Experienced fencers can do sparring with the foam sabres even without a fencing mask. We do this quite often. It gives you a bang and many of my students fence better with the foam Broadsword than they do with Black fencers and Steel ;-) That is because they tend to be more technical, are more "afraid" of being hit and they can see better and move more freely than in protective gear. So it is a good way, ONE way of sparring method with its benefits (not the ONLY way). To be honest I see it a bit like a good boxing bout: You get a smack to the face and learn you are not made of sugar and you respect the technique much more. That is at least my opinion.
I agree with your points. And of course it's not the only way, that's far from what I trying to say! It's one aspect of training that is more valuable than many people realise, my past self included.
@@historyandsabre absolutely, yes. That comment about the one/only way was pointed in the direction of typical critics who promote „no steel, no deal“. Back then ie singlesticks were used as training tools and for sparring. So synthetics, foam etc. is totally legit.
I used to do a lot of casual no armour sparring there are two main rules to make it fully safe: 1. No head/neck, its the one area that can easily be injured. This does change the dynamic a lot. 2. Thrusting weapons need to be padded more heavily on the tip. If the core runs to the end of the weapon then you need both a dense protection on the core and additional soft protection (at least a couple inches of soft foam over the dense foam). Can make weapons look a little more ridiculous, but thrusts are very strong even through foam so you need a lot of someone has no body protection.
In my club, one of the instructors thought it would be a good idea to allow a group of teenagers (mostly 14-15 year olds) to spar with only a fencing mask with no back of the head protection and a pentti synthetic longsword during their second week of training. It mostly went OK for the first few bouts but soon enough one of the bigger teens stabbed his smaller opponent in the stomach hard enough to flex the sword. Easy to say, the other kid felt too uncomfortable to keep going and the whole event was stopped. For me, it put into perspective just how dangerous a lack of control can be and why it is reckless to allow newer practitioners to do sparring in minimal protective gear.
Thanks for sharing, that's a shame and I agree. Hope the kid was fine. Also, there's a pretty big difference between sythetics and foam swords. Nevertheless, I wouldn't let complete beginners spar with any simulator without adequate protection, that's clear.
Great video! I'm currently planning on starting my own mini-HEMA club with a few friends, we have a very limited budget so we're planning to start it with just a few foam swords and a mask. I'm trying to understand if foam swords are actually valid in HEMA training, so videos like yours help a lot. Thank you!
Hi, congrats on starting your own club! Good luck and have fun! :) Yeah, a mask is a very good first item to buy and probably the most important! Also, gloves are a close second. These foam sabres are good for low-risk sparring and maybe for getting into the whole thing at the very beginning. For technical partner drills, I'd still recommend something like the Blackfencer synthetics. They're not very expensive but just so good. Also, have a look at Nick Thomas' channel (he commented below as Academy of Historical Fencing). He has reviews on all the Blackfencer sabres and these foam sabres too, I believe. Cheers!
@@historyandsabre Nick Thomas and the AHF are one of the reasons i can now think about starting my own club (sadly there are none in my area), his video and the resources on his site are incredibly useful I've been thinking about Blackfencers, i hope i can manage to buy a couple of them for drills, and then slowly upgrade our kits. It will certantly need some time, and a lot of luck. Thank you very much for your answer, have a good day!
I have sparred with these sabres and agree with your point of view. I would recommend to use safety glasses when not wearing a mask. Even a relatively minor hit to an eye can cause blunt trauma to the eye and you will be out of action for weeks (and worst case require surgery or get permanent damage). Alternatively, you could agree to only target the head using downward cuts which will have a greatly reduced risk of entering the eye socket as opposed to horizontal cuts (or thrusts).
@@historyandsabre I used standard safety glasses so far, which works fine with one issue: A glancing hit can send them flying. I tried glasses with a good strap, but because their construction is more closed fogging is a big issue. Goggles with a mesh would be ideal ;-)
There is always a balance between safety and verisimilitude in training. It is a risk/reward scenario and that is a judgement call one must make for oneself. I agree that it can help one understand fencing better. For that it seems to me that the lower risk is worth the rewards.
Back in the 90s we used boffers covered in duct tape with a pvc pipe center. At the dojo we used bokuto and shinai out of gear in the 90s with sensei too but that was dangerous and stupid from my adult self even with old masters being careful as we students would then spar without enough gear against each other because we weren't impressed by the amount of danger. We totally could have seriously injured ourselves. I understand being careful but safety is a relative task otherwise no one would drive a car. With my 9 year old I make him wear his italian sport fencing child mask though I don't wear it. Those padded sabres are a blast.
I hope to see the use of padded practice gear expand a little bit. Imo presents potentially a much better use case than the nylon synthetics. Setup is instant, you can move at full speed, and the thermals are fantastic. When people are in full kit, they slow down or stand around cooling down, feeling very tired, even when they're not winded. There is no amount of training that will make you able to withstand the heat of fighting nonstop in full gear, not to mention the discomfort.
We use Go Now in the club but with masks and groin protectors, because shot in the balls would be still incapacitating, and masks are for eye protection, but I think protective glasses and rugby cap are a minimum if you want your head to be a smaller target. Even a hit with foam saber through mask can give me ringing ears, but we go at full force always with these
ComIng from the SCA, where we bout with rattan simulators, I thought I was pretty unflappable in regards to getting hit, but the first time I went to a HEMA class and drilled without a helmet, I realized I had been relying on my gear to make me feel safe. My old ARMA study group in Germany had a couple of the RSW sabers which were great for sparring with minimal gear.
We are using these boffers now, longsword type, and sure they are fun and light, but not really safe like they are pool noodles. I got hit many times non the head, with the mask, overlay, and a rugby padded cap underneath. And my head rang like a bell. I got hit in the groin (JUUUUUUST 2mm left of the groin shell) and I saw stars, and it was not even a full force blow, like maybe a 50% intensity hit. Finally, already you can't see all that well with the fencing mask mesh, and everyone is wearing black, and the swords are black, they are practically invisible if you stay on longpoint or rest the blade on your shoulder across the body
Thanks for sharing your experience. I do agree with you that the Go-now longsword boffers can be pretty bad, particularly in the thrust. I didn't know that some years ago and received a thrust to the ribs with just a t-shirt on. They are not flexible and it hurt like hell. However, I do also think that these boffer sabres are safer. They are also more forgiving in the thrust and they are totally safe for going full force in a controlled manner with a fencing mask on (see my most recent video that I just uploaded an hour ago). Cheers!
At a minimum, I would opt for eye-protecting goggles; in addition, there is conformal karate-style head gear - they are much less bulky and less protruding than fencing masks.
Will Karate head gear protect the eyes? Cause I feel the eyes and nose are the most vulnerable areas. Good tip, cheers. Still, as I said: fencing without any head gear can have amazing value and is a separate form of training which I'd choose very conciously every time and would never make others do, especially beginners.
The sabre boffers are about 500g I believe, which is noticeably lighter than most steel sabres. They are a great training tool and you can definitely do "proper" fencing with them, however, they bounce off of each other on impact and give you hardly any feedback regarding edge alignment. One thing to note: they are stiffer than you think in the thrust. I once got a good thrust in the ribs from their longsword boffer wearing only a tee and that did hurt. Cheers.
@@historyandsabre Thanks for the response! I had hoped they would be properly weighted. But i guess that would defeat the purpose of "safe" sparring swords. Do you know if such swords exist, weighted-foam swords for protectionless sparring? Would it even make sense?
@@merlinkater7756 As far as I know, these are the closest thing to what you're looking for. You might find some foam swords for LARP that you could use. Nothing will be 100% safe without protective gear if people just do whatever. You get the point :)
Yeah, they get a ton of use aswell as they are easy to carry and always ready for a quick sparring session without the hassle of additional gear. They're made by Go-Now from Poland. Cheers!
Perhaps a flat plastic mask that fits flush with your face, something like the plastic version of a ballistic face mask, but for this kind of sparring. On that note, my brothers and friends used to spar when we were teenagers with wooden swords. But the head was off limits. We never used any protective gear.
Sometimes sparring with foams without protective gear is safer than full-speed steel sparring with your entire protective gear on. And it is by far more "martial".
You can learn the basics like footwork, cuts and guards on your own. Apart from the manuals, there are some great resources online. Look for other HEMA channels on UA-cam and eventually I hope you can find someone in your area to get into partnered exercises! Good luck!
That's fair and I've heard it frequently. As an instructor, however, it is my responsibility to weigh the risks against the benefits of any exercise and I'm not gonna be the kind of guy who's like "go ahead and bash your heads in" whenever new people come to the club or try their hand at some sparring for the first time. Safety first always in my class.
@@historyandsabre I understand, I was just joking around hence the ":p", but I still hold some truth to it, so it is reasonable that as an instructor your main objective is the safety of your pupils, but as you said, once you are advanced enough, you probably should be ok fencing with foam weapons & without head gear.
I don't believe you need to wear a mask if you're using a FOAM sword we are practicing martial art after all, if someone is too scared to get hit they probably shouldn't practice martial art
Yes and no. Safety considerations should be made whatever the scenario may be. If someone is new and scared of getting hit, it is my job as an instructor to work with that. I'm not gonna tell them to go home.
![Protective Gear for Military Sabre [HEMA]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-FEwLI4kq2k/mqdefault.jpg)
Absolutely agreed. We commonly use these as a beginner sparring weapon with mask, as it's a great way to cheaply and safely get people fighting, and then we use it without masks for selected advanced students/instructors in specific circumstances, and just as you say, the results are quite interesting, as people really look after their head. This is amusing as so many people say these training tools do not teach people to fear the blade as one should, and yet in the maskless version it actually does a really good job of that.
Thanks, I also agree completely. The last point you mention is really quite interesting. I also get the feeling that it's not at all about how dangerous the weapon is that your fighting against - the mere fact that something could hit you in the face seems to be enough to be more cautious. I mean I wouldn't want to get hit in the face by a pool noodle either if someone swung one around near me, so it doesn't have to be steel to accomplish the desired effect!
Experienced fencers can do sparring with the foam sabres even without a fencing mask. We do this quite often. It gives you a bang and many of my students fence better with the foam Broadsword than they do with Black fencers and Steel ;-) That is because they tend to be more technical, are more "afraid" of being hit and they can see better and move more freely than in protective gear. So it is a good way, ONE way of sparring method with its benefits (not the ONLY way).
To be honest I see it a bit like a good boxing bout: You get a smack to the face and learn you are not made of sugar and you respect the technique much more. That is at least my opinion.
I agree with your points. And of course it's not the only way, that's far from what I trying to say! It's one aspect of training that is more valuable than many people realise, my past self included.
@@historyandsabre absolutely, yes. That comment about the one/only way was pointed in the direction of typical critics who promote „no steel, no deal“. Back then ie singlesticks were used as training tools and for sparring. So synthetics, foam etc. is totally legit.
I used to do a lot of casual no armour sparring there are two main rules to make it fully safe:
1. No head/neck, its the one area that can easily be injured. This does change the dynamic a lot.
2. Thrusting weapons need to be padded more heavily on the tip. If the core runs to the end of the weapon then you need both a dense protection on the core and additional soft protection (at least a couple inches of soft foam over the dense foam). Can make weapons look a little more ridiculous, but thrusts are very strong even through foam so you need a lot of someone has no body protection.
I totally agree with you.
Cheers!
In my club, one of the instructors thought it would be a good idea to allow a group of teenagers (mostly 14-15 year olds) to spar with only a fencing mask with no back of the head protection and a pentti synthetic longsword during their second week of training. It mostly went OK for the first few bouts but soon enough one of the bigger teens stabbed his smaller opponent in the stomach hard enough to flex the sword. Easy to say, the other kid felt too uncomfortable to keep going and the whole event was stopped. For me, it put into perspective just how dangerous a lack of control can be and why it is reckless to allow newer practitioners to do sparring in minimal protective gear.
Thanks for sharing, that's a shame and I agree. Hope the kid was fine. Also, there's a pretty big difference between sythetics and foam swords. Nevertheless, I wouldn't let complete beginners spar with any simulator without adequate protection, that's clear.
Great video! I'm currently planning on starting my own mini-HEMA club with a few friends, we have a very limited budget so we're planning to start it with just a few foam swords and a mask. I'm trying to understand if foam swords are actually valid in HEMA training, so videos like yours help a lot. Thank you!
Hi, congrats on starting your own club! Good luck and have fun! :)
Yeah, a mask is a very good first item to buy and probably the most important! Also, gloves are a close second.
These foam sabres are good for low-risk sparring and maybe for getting into the whole thing at the very beginning. For technical partner drills, I'd still recommend something like the Blackfencer synthetics. They're not very expensive but just so good.
Also, have a look at Nick Thomas' channel (he commented below as Academy of Historical Fencing). He has reviews on all the Blackfencer sabres and these foam sabres too, I believe.
Cheers!
@@historyandsabre Nick Thomas and the AHF are one of the reasons i can now think about starting my own club (sadly there are none in my area), his video and the resources on his site are incredibly useful
I've been thinking about Blackfencers, i hope i can manage to buy a couple of them for drills, and then slowly upgrade our kits. It will certantly need some time, and a lot of luck.
Thank you very much for your answer, have a good day!
I have sparred with these sabres and agree with your point of view. I would recommend to use safety glasses when not wearing a mask. Even a relatively minor hit to an eye can cause blunt trauma to the eye and you will be out of action for weeks (and worst case require surgery or get permanent damage). Alternatively, you could agree to only target the head using downward cuts which will have a greatly reduced risk of entering the eye socket as opposed to horizontal cuts (or thrusts).
That's a very good point, do you have any recommendations for suitable safety glasses? That's definitely something I'd try.
@@historyandsabre I used standard safety glasses so far, which works fine with one issue: A glancing hit can send them flying.
I tried glasses with a good strap, but because their construction is more closed fogging is a big issue. Goggles with a mesh would be ideal ;-)
There is always a balance between safety and verisimilitude in training. It is a risk/reward scenario and that is a judgement call one must make for oneself. I agree that it can help one understand fencing better. For that it seems to me that the lower risk is worth the rewards.
Back in the 90s we used boffers covered in duct tape with a pvc pipe center. At the dojo we used bokuto and shinai out of gear in the 90s with sensei too but that was dangerous and stupid from my adult self even with old masters being careful as we students would then spar without enough gear against each other because we weren't impressed by the amount of danger. We totally could have seriously injured ourselves.
I understand being careful but safety is a relative task otherwise no one would drive a car.
With my 9 year old I make him wear his italian sport fencing child mask though I don't wear it. Those padded sabres are a blast.
I hope to see the use of padded practice gear expand a little bit. Imo presents potentially a much better use case than the nylon synthetics. Setup is instant, you can move at full speed, and the thermals are fantastic. When people are in full kit, they slow down or stand around cooling down, feeling very tired, even when they're not winded. There is no amount of training that will make you able to withstand the heat of fighting nonstop in full gear, not to mention the discomfort.
We use Go Now in the club but with masks and groin protectors, because shot in the balls would be still incapacitating, and masks are for eye protection, but I think protective glasses and rugby cap are a minimum if you want your head to be a smaller target. Even a hit with foam saber through mask can give me ringing ears, but we go at full force always with these
I agree, if you wanna go at it full force you're gonna need some protective gear.
ComIng from the SCA, where we bout with rattan simulators, I thought I was pretty unflappable in regards to getting hit, but the first time I went to a HEMA class and drilled without a helmet, I realized I had been relying on my gear to make me feel safe. My old ARMA study group in Germany had a couple of the RSW sabers which were great for sparring with minimal gear.
That's an amazing realisation, really opens up your mind!
We are using these boffers now, longsword type, and sure they are fun and light, but not really safe like they are pool noodles. I got hit many times non the head, with the mask, overlay, and a rugby padded cap underneath. And my head rang like a bell. I got hit in the groin (JUUUUUUST 2mm left of the groin shell) and I saw stars, and it was not even a full force blow, like maybe a 50% intensity hit. Finally, already you can't see all that well with the fencing mask mesh, and everyone is wearing black, and the swords are black, they are practically invisible if you stay on longpoint or rest the blade on your shoulder across the body
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I do agree with you that the Go-now longsword boffers can be pretty bad, particularly in the thrust. I didn't know that some years ago and received a thrust to the ribs with just a t-shirt on. They are not flexible and it hurt like hell.
However, I do also think that these boffer sabres are safer. They are also more forgiving in the thrust and they are totally safe for going full force in a controlled manner with a fencing mask on (see my most recent video that I just uploaded an hour ago). Cheers!
At a minimum, I would opt for eye-protecting goggles; in addition, there is conformal karate-style head gear - they are much less bulky and less protruding than fencing masks.
Will Karate head gear protect the eyes? Cause I feel the eyes and nose are the most vulnerable areas. Good tip, cheers.
Still, as I said: fencing without any head gear can have amazing value and is a separate form of training which I'd choose very conciously every time and would never make others do, especially beginners.
@@historyandsabre Some do & others don't. For those that do not, I simply would also include the goggles. Haven't actually tested the combination.
Question: how realistic are these in terms of weight and/or balance? I'm considering to buy the longsword version.
The sabre boffers are about 500g I believe, which is noticeably lighter than most steel sabres. They are a great training tool and you can definitely do "proper" fencing with them, however, they bounce off of each other on impact and give you hardly any feedback regarding edge alignment.
One thing to note: they are stiffer than you think in the thrust. I once got a good thrust in the ribs from their longsword boffer wearing only a tee and that did hurt. Cheers.
@@historyandsabre Thanks for the response! I had hoped they would be properly weighted. But i guess that would defeat the purpose of "safe" sparring swords. Do you know if such swords exist, weighted-foam swords for protectionless sparring? Would it even make sense?
@@merlinkater7756 As far as I know, these are the closest thing to what you're looking for. You might find some foam swords for LARP that you could use. Nothing will be 100% safe without protective gear if people just do whatever. You get the point :)
@@historyandsabre I see. Well thanks for all the info! I'm now armed to make a decision. These swords seem like a good call. Cheers!
Is the moustache mandatory equipment for sabre techniques?
It is for me.
Absolutely, you need at minimum something long enough that you can groom with your fingers. I had to postpone my practice by half a year for this
These foam sabers look great. What company makes them? Best regards
Yeah, they get a ton of use aswell as they are easy to carry and always ready for a quick sparring session without the hassle of additional gear.
They're made by Go-Now from Poland.
Cheers!
@@historyandsabre Thanks!
Perhaps a flat plastic mask that fits flush with your face, something like the plastic version of a ballistic face mask, but for this kind of sparring. On that note, my brothers and friends used to spar when we were teenagers with wooden swords. But the head was off limits. We never used any protective gear.
I would like to try to make foam practice weapons that look a bit more like a sword than a pool noodle. Something along the lines of a cosplay weapon.
That would be fun, sure! :)
Try the nerf swords. My boy and I use the zombie nerf arming sword for years.
They may look funny, but I've been bruised by those things
Sometimes sparring with foams without protective gear is safer than full-speed steel sparring with your entire protective gear on.
And it is by far more "martial".
Yep, agreed!
Эх, жаль нельзя купить эти сабли в россии.
Но если кто-то знает где приобрести - напишите пж ❤
I want to fight sword train And have no partner
You can learn the basics like footwork, cuts and guards on your own. Apart from the manuals, there are some great resources online.
Look for other HEMA channels on UA-cam and eventually I hope you can find someone in your area to get into partnered exercises! Good luck!
Having used these boffer type weapons for years, masks are a foreign concept and not something I intend to use.
I did way more dangerous activities as a kid without head gear, some people are way to used to being safe that they can't take the pain :p
That's fair and I've heard it frequently.
As an instructor, however, it is my responsibility to weigh the risks against the benefits of any exercise and I'm not gonna be the kind of guy who's like "go ahead and bash your heads in" whenever new people come to the club or try their hand at some sparring for the first time. Safety first always in my class.
@@historyandsabre
I understand, I was just joking around hence the ":p", but I still hold some truth to it, so it is reasonable that as an instructor your main objective is the safety of your pupils, but as you said, once you are advanced enough, you probably should be ok fencing with foam weapons & without head gear.
@@antonius.martinus Ah, my bad then! I was on public transport and didn't see the ":p".
We're 100% on the same page then it seems :)
I don't believe you need to wear a mask if you're using a FOAM sword we are practicing martial art after all, if someone is too scared to get hit they probably shouldn't practice martial art
Yes and no. Safety considerations should be made whatever the scenario may be. If someone is new and scared of getting hit, it is my job as an instructor to work with that. I'm not gonna tell them to go home.