Bikes aren't more complicated really but they are becoming disposable and far less value for money which is more of an issue. When a bicycle gets into motorcycle money territory then somethings not right.
There's definitely an argument for more disposable, but it's nice that some brands are doing away with model years, so there's fewer clear outs of last years colour just because #newcolour comes out
Yes, without a shadow of a doubt. A bike is meant to be a simple but efficient machine, easily maintained by its owner a an affordable cost. Sadly, these days are no more.
I’ve had my 12-Speed Shimano Di2 FD stop working randomly in the middle of a ride, too. Took a while to resolve it. Had to connect it to my phone and then it worked itself out. Unfortunately I was stuck in the small ring and had to head home to try and fix it.
This year, Mathieu van der Poel won Milan-San Remo, 62 years after his grandfather Raymond Poulidor. In the 1960s, brake levers with exposed brake cables, frame shifters with friction and steel frames as well as wool jerseys were still used. Van der Poel was over 8 km/h faster, everything is as aerodynamic as possible, they have 12 sprockets, digital gears, power meters etc. and use racing suits and aero helmets. But in many places, maintenance has become much more complicated.
Like Liam I love tubless, Disk Brakes but prefer a more traditional non integrated look as I like to work on my own bikes. So I got the same Aethos frame and stuck 12sp Ultegra Di2 on it. Now I’m suspiciously looking at my front derailleur.
When i was a mechanic in the shop i recognized what types of bikes and components that would last and what didn't, after the old man who ran it passed away and the shop unfortunately had to close after a while i ended up salvaging and restoring vintage bikes, modern components are designed to last you a season or two, you never have to worry about headset bearing or bottom brackets on old steel bikes, they literally last forever, old bikes are also a lot more fun to ride, more comfortable and way better looking, new bikes tend to be fat and puffy looking with ugly designs that look overly plasticy.
These young people and their technology... Back in my day we had a big wheel at the front, little one in the back and if you wanted to stop you threw a cat in your wheel and I didnt hear anyone complaining.
Sounds like you a brakeless mullet bike 😉 Jokes aside, that sounds dangerously good fun! 🤣 Though we don't condone the use of cats to stop you, what's wrong with using the sole of your shoe like the more recent old days?!
The biggest (and most affordable) bike makers tend to cater towards racing products, especially when markets turn down. The problem with electronic stuff is that once you're in that ecosystem, you can't get out. You can't use an AXS rear derailleur with anything but an AXS shifter, who knows what the compatibility will be with future versions? Cable actuated stuff is at least able to be modified and hacked by the average shop mechanic. I think the complexity can coexist with casual-grade equipment but only if the simple stuff is also built to last!
It is a hack with cables though and it doesn't always work. Sure you have the option to try and create a bodge that works, but with something like AXS, you are in, but you can use ALL of it if you want. You can't mix Shimano MTB and Road cable groups easily for example, you can with AXS. Either way, it's nice to have the choice and you can buy and use pretty much what you want one way or another
I love cable integration, because I don't have to do it. I just have to pay someone to do it, and I receive a bike where there are no visible cables. Everyone who's not a home mechanic should love it, lol
Many vintage bikes would come with a spring to help center it, simple and effective, then came the era of new age engineers and cad, then it went downhill from there very quickly.
Honestly, this is the answer. I just got a bike with sram etap and adjusting to using both levers to shift as opposed to one took no learning curve. But the 3 months it took to save up for the groupset was the real kicker 😅
Bikes can use less carbon material to be lighter, but they never get any cheaper. Looking at you Factor. The new o2 got rid of the seatpost and uses super thin tubing. I might have to get into motorcycles, bc these prices are getting pretty ridiculous. 15k for a top flagship spec bike (the only ones i look at).
The frameset doesn't effect so much the weight since 700-1kg PLUS fork 300-400g (never mensioned!), the rest are components, brakes, seat, drivetrain, wheels etc.
Disc brakes are not what everyone wants. And that's fine. But I personally do a ton of riding. And I ride all kinds of terrain. That being said, I race cyclocross and gravel, along with mountain bikes, it just simply makes sense to have disc brakes on my road bikes too. Personally I love the feel of them as well. Maybe it's not right for you and that's fine. But don't state your opinion as a fact when an opinion can't ever be a fact.
@@highfivedand even in road bike, disc brakes usually make more sense for the vast majority of riders who do recognise that riding conditions span more than perfectly paved smooth roads on sunlit days.
Rim brakes can kick sand, I don't care if they're 2g lighter or 0.5W more aerodynamic they don't work properly in the wet and limit the lifespan of rims (especially carbon)
Rim Brakes don’t make sense for the average rider nowadays due to that most people can’t learn the technique required to get the most out of them. The average person is also significantly heavier than the world tour pros. However, they definitely are the better solution for the world tour pros. The fact that aggressive descenders like Julian Alaphilippe can count the amount of times their hydraulics have boiled over on a mountain decent and completely locked up their wheel shows that there is still a place for rim brakes.
Honestly, I do see a future where disc brakes are the absolute future but they need to integrate things like heat compensation and passive ABS systems into the braking system to actually make them safe. I know Outbraker already makes a aftermarket system but even that one is still not perfect. For now, I think that the unpredictability of hydraulic disc brake performance do make them quite dangerous.
@@Charles-wz9sd You make good points, although i would argue once center-pull or linear side-pull rim brakes are set up they are easier to get along with than discs. Discs are easier for maintenance in general though. If there's someone boiling brake fluid on a bicycle, I have full confidence in saying rim brakes in the same situation would be turned into butter! Increased rotor size would help slightly but there's a fine line between good performance and weight with discs.
@@Charles-wz9sd Let's be real here, there isn't a heck of a lot your average joe can do when it comes to turning wrenches, you have guys who take their bike to the shop to have a bottle cage mounted and they breed as well, most people are incredibly inept and helpless when something needs to be fixed, a harsh truth.
@BikeRadar... No not weight, what we want is for the UCI stop putting limits on aerodynamics of the frame and components. A pound of weight doesn't make all that much difference. See Bike Radar article, "Aerodynamics vs. Weight: What’s the Tipping Point for Pro and Amateur Cyclists?"
For sure there is an argument for getting rid of aero restrictions, but that is opening up a whole new arms race! Be interested to see what people could come up with though!
It's a fair point, but there could be an argument for that making things even more expensive. If brands tried to cut down their ranges, you'd end up with a smaller pricing window and it'd come from both ends, expensive and the cheaper side A brands range might currently go from $500-$15000, but if they condensed it down to a smaller range that went from $1500-$5000, would that be better value? People might be priced out of entry level bikes and the higher end wouldn't have the cutting edge tech to trickle down over the future, so it's a complex argument either way.
@@coldforgedcowboy the Dodo became extinct less than '80 years' after Dutch invasion. Causes: deforestation, hunting, and destruction of their nests by animals. Rims brakes have been around for MORE than 100 years. You and Your like can NOT make it go extinct. Oh, but keep trying.
well since l m considered a classic l prefer classic bike tech !! lt still works easy to fix myself and its won more races than all your overpriced new stuff ever has for over 100yrs !!
You guys are basically shills for the bike industry, so of course you’re going to love all of their ‘advances’. I suppose I would too if they gave them to me for free, but their products are hugely expensive and offer poor quality for money.
We will be unkind if we think something sucks, but there's little of it about these days! Things are getting more expensive, but with stuff like Shimano Cues offering really good performance for a much smaller cost, you can still get great value
@@bikeradar Sorry if my comment was rude. I guess I'm just angry about the direction the bike industry is going: I can't even afford what's considered 'a good bike' these days, and something I really liked about bikes was their simplicity and ease of repair. You know, I do my own maintenance and repairs, but that's getting harder and harder, and bike parts are becoming obsolete fast, as are bikes. So there you are.
Since i see that some people are so nostalgic let me make it clear. F*** rim brakes, first of all. Ancient technology that NEEDS to die. Love electronic shifting but nothing wrong with a good mechanical. There is nothing complicated about modern bikes, unless you are crying about "the good old times" just to gatekeep and try to sound like a purist. No one cares!
I'm not sure if you maintain your bikes yourself. I own a road bike with campa chorus rim brakes. They work perfect on my Zonda (aluminum) wheelset, no problems at all. Maintenance is minimal, expenses also. I also have cx bike and another one with disc brakes. Maintenance is costly, time consuming and you need al lot of equipment. Bleedings sets for each system, careful adjustments of all parts. And bleeding your brakes is not a trivial task. Nevertheless always awful squeaking... a lot of problems. Anyway, they are much much better in performance on the cx bike, but I will not move to disc brakes on my road bike.
Are bikes to complicated?
To complicate or not to complicate.
Bikes aren't more complicated really but they are becoming disposable and far less value for money which is more of an issue. When a bicycle gets into motorcycle money territory then somethings not right.
I might have to get into motorcycles, bc these prices are getting pretty ridiculous. 15k for a top flagship spec bike (the only ones i look at).
There's definitely an argument for more disposable, but it's nice that some brands are doing away with model years, so there's fewer clear outs of last years colour just because #newcolour comes out
Yes, without a shadow of a doubt. A bike is meant to be a simple but efficient machine, easily maintained by its owner a an affordable cost.
Sadly, these days are no more.
Who said that?
They sure are complex, but you can super still if you want, just might have to try harder to find it!
Bikes went in the direction of the automotive industry.
Anyone that's set up a SRAM AXS bike knows its easier, and faster than running cables and housing.
Very true! in making a bike more complex in one way, you make it simpler in another
@bikeradar yup, the complexity is in the engineering so we don't have to think of anything.
I’ve had my 12-Speed Shimano Di2 FD stop working randomly in the middle of a ride, too. Took a while to resolve it. Had to connect it to my phone and then it worked itself out. Unfortunately I was stuck in the small ring and had to head home to try and fix it.
Would be the same with a broken cable drivetrain though!
This year, Mathieu van der Poel won Milan-San Remo, 62 years after his grandfather Raymond Poulidor.
In the 1960s, brake levers with exposed brake cables, frame shifters with friction and steel frames as well as wool jerseys were still used.
Van der Poel was over 8 km/h faster, everything is as aerodynamic as possible, they have 12 sprockets, digital gears, power meters etc. and use racing suits and aero helmets. But in many places, maintenance has become much more complicated.
More complicated bikes involve more steps before you can go for a ride, thus you have less time and are less likely to do it in the first place.
Very true! And it's so easy to forget something these days!
I prefer mechanical shifting...but old GX and XX1 AXS work flawlessly, and are easy to set up.
They are very good, wait until you try the new Transmissions!
Short answer is yes
Long answer is no 😉
@@bikeradar always go for the simple short answer in life. 😉
Do bikes need to be better if they cost so much more? Let’s focus on quality over reinventing.
I think a lot of new tech is focussed on quality, there's a lot less of the totally bonkers ideas we saw in the 90's especially in the MTB world!
Like Liam I love tubless, Disk Brakes but prefer a more traditional non integrated look as I like to work on my own bikes. So I got the same Aethos frame and stuck 12sp Ultegra Di2 on it. Now I’m suspiciously looking at my front derailleur.
Sensible and easy to use fancy tech is the best tech!
When i was a mechanic in the shop i recognized what types of bikes and components that would last and what didn't, after the old man who ran it passed away and the shop unfortunately had to close after a while i ended up salvaging and restoring vintage bikes, modern components are designed to last you a season or two, you never have to worry about headset bearing or bottom brackets on old steel bikes, they literally last forever, old bikes are also a lot more fun to ride, more comfortable and way better looking, new bikes tend to be fat and puffy looking with ugly designs that look overly plasticy.
These young people and their technology... Back in my day we had a big wheel at the front, little one in the back and if you wanted to stop you threw a cat in your wheel and I didnt hear anyone complaining.
Sounds like you a brakeless mullet bike 😉
Jokes aside, that sounds dangerously good fun! 🤣
Though we don't condone the use of cats to stop you, what's wrong with using the sole of your shoe like the more recent old days?!
The biggest (and most affordable) bike makers tend to cater towards racing products, especially when markets turn down. The problem with electronic stuff is that once you're in that ecosystem, you can't get out. You can't use an AXS rear derailleur with anything but an AXS shifter, who knows what the compatibility will be with future versions? Cable actuated stuff is at least able to be modified and hacked by the average shop mechanic. I think the complexity can coexist with casual-grade equipment but only if the simple stuff is also built to last!
It is a hack with cables though and it doesn't always work. Sure you have the option to try and create a bodge that works, but with something like AXS, you are in, but you can use ALL of it if you want.
You can't mix Shimano MTB and Road cable groups easily for example, you can with AXS.
Either way, it's nice to have the choice and you can buy and use pretty much what you want one way or another
I love cable integration, because I don't have to do it. I just have to pay someone to do it, and I receive a bike where there are no visible cables. Everyone who's not a home mechanic should love it, lol
Fair point! But still, if it takes longer for a bike shop to do it, it'll cost you more in labour costs, so pro's and con's!
The fact Canyon think we need self centering handlebars tells you everything you need!
We're intrigued to try the K.I.S system, Troy Brosnan seems to like it!
Many vintage bikes would come with a spring to help center it, simple and effective, then came the era of new age engineers and cad, then it went downhill from there very quickly.
BikeRadar: Are Bikes Too Complicated?
Answer: Not really, just getting the money to buy them are!
Honestly, this is the answer. I just got a bike with sram etap and adjusting to using both levers to shift as opposed to one took no learning curve. But the 3 months it took to save up for the groupset was the real kicker 😅
Yep, cost of living and rising costs have a lot to answer for!
Bikes can use less carbon material to be lighter, but they never get any cheaper.
Looking at you Factor. The new o2 got rid of the seatpost and uses super thin tubing.
I might have to get into motorcycles, bc these prices are getting pretty ridiculous. 15k for a top flagship spec bike (the only ones i look at).
The frameset doesn't effect so much the weight since 700-1kg PLUS fork 300-400g (never mensioned!), the rest are components, brakes, seat, drivetrain, wheels etc.
The frameset is 10% of the overall bike weight though, only the wheels account for more, so it's pretty important for the frame to be light
All went wrong when disc brakes were put in road bikes. Durianrider was right about bikes being too complex
Disc brakes are not what everyone wants. And that's fine. But I personally do a ton of riding. And I ride all kinds of terrain. That being said, I race cyclocross and gravel, along with mountain bikes, it just simply makes sense to have disc brakes on my road bikes too. Personally I love the feel of them as well. Maybe it's not right for you and that's fine. But don't state your opinion as a fact when an opinion can't ever be a fact.
@@diehardbikes I can’ say what I like and you are Intitled to your opinion and was taking about road bikes. Thank you
@@highfived you sure can say what you like. But your opinion is NOT a fact. Regardless of how rude you are about it.
@@highfivedand even in road bike, disc brakes usually make more sense for the vast majority of riders who do recognise that riding conditions span more than perfectly paved smooth roads on sunlit days.
Oh yeah, Durianrider. The gospel of cycling. LMAO.
Rim brakes can kick sand, I don't care if they're 2g lighter or 0.5W more aerodynamic they don't work properly in the wet and limit the lifespan of rims (especially carbon)
Rim Brakes don’t make sense for the average rider nowadays due to that most people can’t learn the technique required to get the most out of them. The average person is also significantly heavier than the world tour pros. However, they definitely are the better solution for the world tour pros.
The fact that aggressive descenders like Julian Alaphilippe can count the amount of times their hydraulics have boiled over on a mountain decent and completely locked up their wheel shows that there is still a place for rim brakes.
Honestly, I do see a future where disc brakes are the absolute future but they need to integrate things like heat compensation and passive ABS systems into the braking system to actually make them safe. I know Outbraker already makes a aftermarket system but even that one is still not perfect. For now, I think that the unpredictability of hydraulic disc brake performance do make them quite dangerous.
@@Charles-wz9sd You make good points, although i would argue once center-pull or linear side-pull rim brakes are set up they are easier to get along with than discs. Discs are easier for maintenance in general though. If there's someone boiling brake fluid on a bicycle, I have full confidence in saying rim brakes in the same situation would be turned into butter! Increased rotor size would help slightly but there's a fine line between good performance and weight with discs.
@@Charles-wz9sd Let's be real here, there isn't a heck of a lot your average joe can do when it comes to turning wrenches, you have guys who take their bike to the shop to have a bottle cage mounted and they breed as well, most people are incredibly inept and helpless when something needs to be fixed, a harsh truth.
@BikeRadar... No not weight, what we want is for the UCI stop putting limits on aerodynamics of the frame and components. A pound of weight doesn't make all that much difference. See Bike Radar article, "Aerodynamics vs. Weight: What’s the Tipping Point for Pro and Amateur Cyclists?"
For sure there is an argument for getting rid of aero restrictions, but that is opening up a whole new arms race! Be interested to see what people could come up with though!
As a 57yr old man with a kid in college, I’ll never get to enjoy any of that tech. 😂
Maybe if they become the next supreme tech overlord they'll buy you some!
Any news on the new GRX groupset?
Heck , any news on where i can buy EXISTING GRX would be nice.
Nothing yet, but stay tuned and subscribe for more when we get it!
Disagree totally. More choice is not good, it means bike companies will make the good bikes even more expensive. Keep options small and sensical.
It's a fair point, but there could be an argument for that making things even more expensive. If brands tried to cut down their ranges, you'd end up with a smaller pricing window and it'd come from both ends, expensive and the cheaper side
A brands range might currently go from $500-$15000, but if they condensed it down to a smaller range that went from $1500-$5000, would that be better value?
People might be priced out of entry level bikes and the higher end wouldn't have the cutting edge tech to trickle down over the future, so it's a complex argument either way.
TO MANY PARTS TO EXPENSIVE.
Too and too😉
@@veganpotterthevegan and two
Some prices are getting very high, but you can still find some great performing bargain too!
those that think bikes are complicated are the one's that can't boil an egg, change a plug or sew a button 🤣
Those that aren't ride less than 100km a week.
🙋♂️ Hi!
Why are they talking like robots 🤖
Skynet is here 🤫
Rim Brakes for the win in 2023.
Rim brakes are going the way of the dodo bird.
@@coldforgedcowboy Nonsense I just bought two sets of brake pads today - £5.99 and they will last for years.
@@coldforgedcowboy the Dodo became extinct less than '80 years' after Dutch invasion. Causes: deforestation, hunting, and destruction of their nests by animals. Rims brakes have been around for MORE than 100 years. You and Your like can NOT make it go extinct. Oh, but keep trying.
@@JamesSmith-qs4hx ... The issue won't be brake pads, eventually it will be finding decent road rims with brake tracks.
@@coldforgedcowboyNextie carbon rims have textured brake tracks.
well since l m considered a classic l prefer classic bike tech !! lt still works easy to fix myself and its won more races than all your overpriced new stuff ever has for over 100yrs !!
You guys are basically shills for the bike industry, so of course you’re going to love all of their ‘advances’. I suppose I would too if they gave them to me for free, but their products are hugely expensive and offer poor quality for money.
We will be unkind if we think something sucks, but there's little of it about these days!
Things are getting more expensive, but with stuff like Shimano Cues offering really good performance for a much smaller cost, you can still get great value
@@bikeradar Sorry if my comment was rude. I guess I'm just angry about the direction the bike industry is going: I can't even afford what's considered 'a good bike' these days, and something I really liked about bikes was their simplicity and ease of repair. You know, I do my own maintenance and repairs, but that's getting harder and harder, and bike parts are becoming obsolete fast, as are bikes. So there you are.
Too*
Since i see that some people are so nostalgic let me make it clear.
F*** rim brakes, first of all. Ancient technology that NEEDS to die.
Love electronic shifting but nothing wrong with a good mechanical.
There is nothing complicated about modern bikes, unless you are crying about "the good old times" just to gatekeep and try to sound like a purist. No one cares!
Let's see you attempt to replace the headset bearings of a bike with integrated internal routing then.
@@yonglingng5640 Is it complicated? Really? Compared to what? A rim brake bike with external routing? Big deal.
I'm not sure if you maintain your bikes yourself. I own a road bike with campa chorus rim brakes. They work perfect on my Zonda (aluminum) wheelset, no problems at all. Maintenance is minimal, expenses also. I also have cx bike and another one with disc brakes. Maintenance is costly, time consuming and you need al lot of equipment. Bleedings sets for each system, careful adjustments of all parts. And bleeding your brakes is not a trivial task. Nevertheless always awful squeaking... a lot of problems. Anyway, they are much much better in performance on the cx bike, but I will not move to disc brakes on my road bike.