CUBASE PRO - GROUP vs VCA Tracks Explained
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2024
- CUBASE PRO - GROUP vs VCA Tracks Explained
One thing that confuses a lot of mix engineers is the difference between a Group and a VCA.
But once you understand the difference, you’ll have a couple of very powerful tools added to your mixing repertoire!
Today, I’m going to explain what groups and VCAs are, show you how to create them, and discuss when you would use each one in a mix.
If you have any questions, be sure to leave me a comment!
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Timestamps
0:00 Intro
0:50 Group channel drum recording
1:05 Creating a group in Cubase
2:35 A faster way to create groups
3:15 VCA defined and explained
3:45 Creating a VCA channel
4:15 A faster way to create a VCA channel
6:00 Removing a channel from VCA
7:00 Knowing when to use a group vs VCA in a mix
8:30 Processing acoustic guitars in a group
10:50 Processing acoustic guitars with a VCA
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Just stumbled on this and it de mystified the whole process. Thank you!
Thanks Chris - I just watched Greg Ondo spend 15 minutes brain-farting around this very issue so thank you for the crystal clear explanation!
Perfect explanation and demonstration 👍🏾 thanks Chris!
You've explain everything that make me confused before! Thanks Chris! It's help me a lot :)
Good luck
Great info as always from Chris! He is the only one I turn to for tips and tricks in Cubase. 🤘
I can't tell you how many videos I have watched on this topic. Only now do I really understand the difference! Thank you so much.
You're very welcome! :-)
Best explanation I have ever seen for how and why setting up VCAs
A lot of important distinctions, and carefully explained, (with details I didn't know!)
Thanks Chris - great, simple explanation with examples. I’ve finally got it! Eureka!
Chris coming with the videos right when I have those questions, love the vids dude!
Helpful as always. 😊🙏
thanks Chris. from editing area also you can assign groups to selected track i believe this was added from cubase pro 11
Great explanation... Thanks Chris!!!
My pleasure!
You nailed it.Thank you Chris
Thanks!
Hi Chris, I’m new to mixing and have been learning a lot from your videos. Quick question…is there a way to detect harshness in a mix without playing it back loudly? Perhaps through an EQ or spectrum analyzer? Thanks!
Thanks for your informative videos. We’ve followed instructions, yours and Cubase Pro 11 Manuel’s, carefully. Many times with the same result. For group channel of 2 tracks, solo and mute work fine but the group channel fader has no effect on the volume! It is as though the individual channels volumes are bypassing the group fader entirely. We are out of ideas, new to Cubase ….appreciate any suggestions you may have!
I was just wondering how to do this the other day, glad you made this video! Sometimes I find myself at the end of a mix with not quite enough headroom for mastering - in this case would you recommend running every track through a VCA and bumping down the volume a notch?
Thanks Chris for this informative video, just love your knowledge of Cubase. Question, so for group channel, so the idea is to add a group channel and just use one set of plugins from the Console window, is this correct?
Hey Chris! I love the channel and am trying to be more diligent about catching each of them as they're released.
I have a question. Lately I find myself GASsing for mic preamps. However, my desires are bigger than my bank account 😭
I'm wondering what is the difference [besides adding color] between using an outboard preamp vs just adding gain via the offline processing function? I wouldn't think that there would be any obvious advantage.
Hi Chris, another pre for a vca against a group is that the volume of different channels is going down (or up) procent-wise. In a group the difference between the channels when moving faders stays the same. I'm not able to check right now (I'm in bed 😉 ), but I always had in mind that that was also one of the differences between a group and a vca channel.....
Hi Chris! What's the name of the song you played when showing the Acoustic guitars? Amazing video
Just had the "aha" moment of why my fade-outs usually don't sound good. It's because I'm fading a group fader, not a VCA fader. So the FX processing is fading out when really it should stay the same and just have the VCA level fade out. Brilliant.
VCA's great for keeping your Master bus level in check. put VCA channels for DRUMS, MUSIC, VOCALS, ie, Enter Vol. value on VCA faders while keeping your mix channels relative to each other.
Thank you❤❤
Hi Chris,
I also use a VCA fader in a case like the following: let’s say I have 8 singers, each of them singing individually within verses, and all of them singing together during choruses.
Of course, voices are too loud in the choruses, so I need to automate them. If I use a group, I’m at risk to overload the group’s input. So, in that case, I use a VCA fader in order to automate the voices. And I can also send those voices to a group.
My question is : Do I over-complexify the « problem » ?
Si ma question n’est pas claire, je peux la poser en français.
Merci beaucoup et bravo pour ton excellent travail ?
I see the VCA channel is just a name, but it does link the fader to the vca fader, in Sonar a bus in the master out section will do the same, it will reduce levels or increase levels without seeing the faders going down, and those busses have automation too. People are a bit easy to pusuade when they hear interesting names like vca channels and such, even when it does or acts very differently in the digital domain.
Hi Chris, Is there any option to change the default colour of the wave in a region in cubase, as in , is it possible to have a different colour for the wave separate from the region where it lies in
Hey Chris, how do you do to get colors in the mixer window? I have color in the main window for each channel but not in the mixer. Thanks in advance!
Can I set up the vca to shape velocities for say drums for example? That would be sick
can you please do a video of live looping i. cubase and how to set up. kind of an Ed sheehan thing?
Thanks Crhis nice video, for me they must remain named VCA with the name of the function they have to perform regardless
Thank you
Of course!
Hi Chris. I usually use VCAs on the right side to make a rough mix of the instrumental families before working better using automations on specific instruments if needed. Do you think it's fine or is it a particular reason to use groups for this?
Nothing wrong with this approach. If you don't need to process your Instruments Busses, a VCA will work just fine. A lot of mix engineers will do it this way.
Very interesting. Thanks! Seems that you need VCA when you send your tracks to the delay or reverb. And use group when you add sends on this group, right? Also you can use both VCA and group on the same parts? Like Strings group and Strings VCA as well..
If you look at the mixer, the signal flow is from top to bottom. The VCA sits at the top, (for one or more tracks) so can control signal flowing down. Controls everything below including sends. You cannot add any inserts or take any sends from VCA fader. Only volume automation possible. No audio record.
A group track sits at the bottom of the signal chain in the mixer (for more than 2 tracks). But does not control sends from those tracks. (assume sends are going sideways to another track and group faders look only what is coming down) You can insert effects and sends inside the group track and cannot record audio.
VCA and folders can exist same time. VCA can also control tracks inside and not inside folders in a set.
Hope I am correct. Regards.
Merci.
Hi Chris I hope you are doing well i have been using VCA on my FX channel but I can't hear what it do 100% on my Fx channel .maybe i am being slow on understanding the important of it
Hi Chris, Thanks! My question is about the Softube Console Fader- how can I make it control the VCA Fader since I cannot load a plugin on it? Cheers
2nd thing, dont really undrstnd the concept named "VCA keeps the relationsip between faders" Can you show how Group Channel doesnt? Because If I have 3 guitars (lets say) going to one group, while all of them have different volume levels, then when I move that GR Fader down, the all go down in volume in the same relationsip, but ofcourse without moving themself, separately, but the relations stays. Maybe I dont understand.. I use VCA for making a 2nd automation- this case for "groups of instruments, or layers" , but dont look at me ofcrs, I'm a freshman as it comes to this one..
I was thinking: is it also (I'd never tried) possible to select channels from different groups to one vca together?
(I'm working with 10.5 pro now)
Hi again Chris, sometimes when mixing my stereo buss level ends up too hot, I want to decrease everything but keep the mix relative levels of all channels, not change the mix. Since I have loads of automation, selecting all faders and reducing using Q-link wont work. How do you deal with this problem? Thanks again, Marty
Just bring your Master Fader down. Unless your individual channels are peaking and creating audible digital clipping, otherwise, just bring your Stereo Buss Fader down :-)
@@mixdownonlineThe issue is I hit the ceiling on some tracks, I guess I could use an output of an effect or clip gain then take the master fader down but this seems like a bit of a bad way of doing this...
@@martytess I use 2 different methods all the time. The simplest method is to just adjust the pre gain value on the Stereo Out channel. The other method is to route every channel in your mix to a single group track (I usually label it "Mix Bus") so that you can make a wider array of adjustments to the entire mix before hitting the Stereo Out for final processing. It's a little more involved, but you can do so much more with your mix before it hits final processing. I frequently use this group to ride volume automation so that I can separate verses/choruses/etc dynamically. All that said, proper gain staging is the first step to take. But even with gain staging, really dense mixes still end up hitting the Stereo Out a little hard sometimes, and either of these methods really help to find the sweet spot before final processing.
None of these suggestion keeps the mix but lowers all of the fader AND automation etc so the mix is the same but at a lower level so a single channel can be made louder. If there is no automation this is easy, Qlink and lower the faders. UT once there is automation, I have selected all automation and reduced, the Qlink and reduce faders by the same DB...
Great info, although its a bit weird to me as a younger generation audio engineer, that when Digital is even in the name of the program group as DAWs, but they still call them VCAs even in side the programs. Mostly for older generation engineers, who still remember using them on analog consoles where they indeed were controlling the voltage, but still...why not name them DCA inside the program? It just sound trickier for beginners of this craft.
Yes, but would make it confusing for older folks like us ;-)
@@mixdownonline I guess, for some at least. I think it's more about making a tiny distinction inside your own mind "same function, different platform (or "means of achieving")", than the actual age. Age more or less helps to make a guess about which - analog or digital - a particular engineer began their career on.
Daws are literally full of references to their hardware counterparts, the whole concept is to emulate a studio environment...
Digital consoles tend to call them DCAs in my experience.
@@DanWorrall I was talking about DAWs for the most part. Ive seen a lot of digital consoles that do call them DCAs too.
My biggest question that no one has ever explained is, if you have compression on a group bus, and the related tracks also grouped to a VCA, wouldn’t VCA automation impact the signal going into the compressor on the group bus?
In vers. 12 Qlink should be replaced by temporary grouping: select the channels and you can adjust the volume/Pan of all of them, like in Studio One, Reaper.
Why not!
Hold down ALT-Shift and you will have that in Cubase as well for multiple selected tracks. Also works for adding and removing FX and a lot more all over cubase.
@@HowlingUlf Thanks for the tip bro.
@@HowlingUlf in my case it's ALT-Shift
@@markusineichen1611 Umm ... did I write CTRL-ALT??? Yes, I did !!! WTF? o_0
If I had to answer that question at gunpoint, I would have answered that I wrote ALT-Shift meaning I would be dead by now. Of course I was wrong and you're right. I edit this now for anyone who happen to just read the top subcomments. And thanks haha! :D
Can you create VCA tracks from your group tracks?
We just figured the problem out: we neglected to deactivate the cue sends on the mix console! So the group tracks were still routing through. For now….until the next thing
Bonsoir
je vais écrire en français car je sais que vous parler le français, j'ai visionné quelques tutos qui étaient en français, il y a fort longtemps...
J'avais juste une question presque ésotérique..
Pourquoi dans votre template et dans presque toutes les templates... ce qui est en haut de la timeline ... ce sont les Batteries....
En fait, je fais toujours le contraire... cad... pour faire simplle je mets tout en bas la batt ( kick,cc...overhead) puis la basse les claviers guitares et je finis par le chant...
perso, je trouve ça plus logique car tout ce qui est rythmique pour moi est lié à la terre et tout ce qui est mélodique est plus lié au ciel donc en haut...
Ce n'est qu'une représentation mentale mais je voulais savoir pourquoi tout le monde fait l'inverse... y a t-il une raison???
Merci d'avance pour votre réponse et merci pour ses supers Tutos
Encore Bravo
Eric
Good evening
I will write in French because I know that you speak French, I watched some tutorials that were in French, a long time ago ...
I just had an almost esoteric question.
Why in your template and in almost all templates ... what's at the top of the timeline ... are the Drums ....
In fact, I always do the opposite ... ie ... for simplicity I put the batt (kick, cc ... overhead) all the way down, then the bass, the keyboards and guitars and I finish with the vocals ...
Personally, I find it more logical because everything that is rhythmic for me is linked to the earth and everything that is melodic is more linked to the sky so at the top ...
This is only a mental representation but I wanted to know why everyone is doing the opposite ... is there a reason ???
Thank you in advance for your answer and thank you for his great Tutorials
Bravo again
Eric
Salut Eric,
Chacun à ces raison au niveau de l'emplacement des pistes, c'est un truc perso en fait. Pour moi, je suis batteur, donc tout ce qui est rythmique est en haut et le reste suis... Rien qui fait une différence dans le mix finale ;-)
You say VCA, I say VEE-CEE-WA-HEY!
Darn it. Just bought the Mixing Course then after watching the Mix Template videos, I see there is now 30% off🙈🙈😥
Send me an email
Pro tip: you dont need to go to mixer window to add a group track to selected tracks.
The word is r-u-t not r-ow-t.