Best is to let the DAC be the clock master with precise control of timing and let the DAC buffer the digital audio pulled asynchronously from the source. This is possible with USB and most certainly don’t require any extra boxes.
I wish you would have added an I2s input on your DDCs. My pontus obviously only has one I2s input. Your DDCs take up that input and then I have to use an inferior connection for my SACD/streqmer. Just a thought for the future.
As I have a Bluesound Node 2i, I presume I would have to go with the Hermes as there's no coax or optical input on the Iris right?
7 місяців тому
where should I place my Denafrips Hermes DDC in the hifi chain, between pc/laptop and the DSP processor (minidsp shd studio) or between the DSP processor and DAC?
Which DAC would benefit from which DDC? Like a ares 2 and pontus 2 would benefit from a iris and a venus would benefit from a hermes or gaia ddc. This would be realy nice to know.
The DENAFRIPS DAC reclocks all inputs using its internal crystals. However, it's worth noting that the DDC can still have a significant impact on the quality of the digital signal processing. While the DAC itself is capable of reclocking the signal, the addition of a DDC can further enhance the overall performance of the digital audio chain. As reported by owners who introduced a DDC into their signal chain, they have noticed a not-subtle and substantial improvement in sound quality, and they are delighted with the favorable outcomes resulting from the addition of the DDC.
I2S is a Synchronous connection, meaning the upstream component (DDC in this case) and not the downstream component/DAC’s clock will be processing the reading, timing and jitter reduction of the digital signal. USB is an asynchronous connection meaning the downstream component’s clock will be doing the work. Streamer/computer to DDC via USB allows the DDC’s clock to be used (asynchronous), DDC to DAC via I2S still allows the DDC’s clock to be used as the main clock (synchronous).
But i have to say something. Yeah you dont increase the price, but you also switch from elna capacitors to no name capaciters. Hiding the OCXC underneath a plastic so no one can see whats realy in use for the new ddc. only bigger transformer and a ac inlet and no firmware update....hmm. no one in this world has something for free to give away...i think its more like a downgrade in parts for the same price...considering the inflation is the same price realy good but with the more high priced parts it was a better deal. i got a venus 2 12th edition and i am realy happy with it, but there were the same steps made for a "upgrade"...bigger transformer but lower priced parts for capacitors. same price for the dac. the products sound great...but i think its more to save cost in parts so the price can remain the same
I appreciate and respect your frank opinion, sir. DENAFRIPS OEM the capacitors from a well known manufacturer according to their specifications (for sound quality). It is definitely not a cost cutting measure. The price differences (if there is), in my opinion, is gonna be small. It doesn't worthwhile for DENAFRIPS to save cost by using inferior parts to often our loyal customers. The OCXO is enclosed within an aluminum housing to provide shielding. While I value constructive criticism for its role in refinement, it's equally important to acknowledge and commend the diligent efforts of the DENAFRIPS team. They have dedicated countless hours to enhance the sound quality of their products, working tirelessly day and night. This just came in a while ago, a customer who owns the older Gaia for several years, and purchased the Gaia 12th recently, he is quite happy with the 12th :) www.denafrips.com/single-post/wow-to-put-it-frankly-i-thought-the-gaia-12th-would-be-a-subtle-upgrade
@@VinshineAudiothe review sounds pretty good. I still got the hermes ddc on my wishlist. at the moment my gustard u18 is feeding my venus 2 12th edition. but only via aes, i²s sounds not even as good as usb dirctly into the venus. but aes sound realy better than usb directly into the venus. I am using only Nordost cables. Heimdall 2 aes and i²s is a nordost Blue Heaven usb. Usb cable itself is a Heimdall 2 usb cable. Streamer is a ifi zen streamer with upgraded power suply. power cord for the venus is a nordost frey 2 and the interconnect is a xlr valhalla 1. for pre amp i got a accuphase c2120 wich is powerd by a frey 2 power cord. It feeds a accuphase p4200 poweramp. which is feedet with a tyr 1 xlr and Tyr 2 power cord...all is feedet by a ps audio p5 power plant...which is feeded by a tyr 2 power cord...got all out nordost cables and power cleaners. Speakers are 804D2 with frey 2 spesker cables and reference jumpers. i realy apriciate the venus 2 sound...very natural analog and rifined sounding dac. sounds best with dsd files👍. but it also sound very good with wav...and streaming of tidal.
Why they don't isolated in mumetal enclosure. It reduce 30dB noise . Even resistor part that use for D/A converter should be in metal enclosure with such as mumetal.
Is it possible to send my first edition Gaia plus $300 USD and get a 2nd edition. I highly suggest jf your company is going to so frequently increase the quality of your products and not the price you are going to lose sales from the people who got you noticed in the first place.
@heinzbecker691 hi Hanz interesting. What aspects of the older ones are better than the new ones? Also, I wanted to pick your brain for a while now on if you though upgrading the flga firmware on the Terminator 2 units actually produced a better quality sound or is it a side grade/downgrade simply used as an ad campaign to sell more units? I really like Alvin and Denafrips, always have, but as soon as they started in with thjs 12th edjtion nonsense, all it did was devalue my original gear. I don't think thats a good way to honor your long-time supporters, and I don't understand their reasoning behind it.
@@Psychopomp33 i dont understand i either completely. But i think its to more like to getting new customers. For me it was a worthy upgrade to go to the venus 2 12th edition. I was watching denafrips and realy waiting for newer products to drop... In the dac buisiness is 5 years an eternity. but otherwise fpga based dacs are not realy getting old...firmware updates can bring new life into these dacs. In the case of the V2 12th are the upgrade inside the dac the biggest of the whole dena dac line up in my opinion. The power section is realy upgraded...the pontus or ares didnt get those big steps...much more or less minor upgrades. i dont know much about the t2 to t2 12th changes and didnt hear them. for my part the V2 12th sound realy realy good and satisfys me enough to not think about a dac upgrade in the near future. i plan to go with a hermes ddc...thats all...maybe a gaia used unit. at the moment i use a gustard u18 ddc via AES. i²s doesn work for pcm and dsd...only one of them. but it sounds with aes better than i²s in my case. think the oscilaters are better inside the V2 12th than the gustard ones.
@@Psychopomp33 what exaclty is better...i think its the capacitors. those parts are now in house ones and before there were elna or nichicon ones. those coste much more..but if they sound much different....i dont know.
Ohh I see m/ thank you for your response. You're essentially saying Denafrips is going for a cash grap by rebranding their 12th generation DDC, and are not tell their customers they are actually using cheaper parts to produce them? 🤔 what about upgrades in technology. Are they virtually the same?
It isolates a digital signal that may or may not have excessive amounts of jitter & reclocks it. This essentially gives the DAC an easier to interpret signal free of jitter.
it simply reclocks the whole signal and cleans it up powerwise. less noise and less jitter. The higher the quality of the crystallaters, the less jitter....its more fluid and realistic sound...its getting more details but at the same time its getting more analog. every fpga based dac got at the end a ddc build inside. because its reclocking the whole signal so its not the source signal anymore. for example the pontus and venus got 2 transformers inside. one for dac part and one for ddc part. but if you are using an external ddc which cleans up and reclocks the signal can be beneficial to the sound, but it has to be of a higher quality than the ddc which is inside you dac.
maybe you should go out of your factory or lab, and really try one of these things, they do wonders for ears, and they do reduce jetters if you are insist on reading charts
Best is to let the DAC be the clock master with precise control of timing and let the DAC buffer the digital audio pulled asynchronously from the source. This is possible with USB and most certainly don’t require any extra boxes.
I wish you would have added an I2s input on your DDCs. My pontus obviously only has one I2s input. Your DDCs take up that input and then I have to use an inferior connection for my SACD/streqmer. Just a thought for the future.
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it!
As I have a Bluesound Node 2i, I presume I would have to go with the Hermes as there's no coax or optical input on the Iris right?
where should I place my Denafrips Hermes DDC in the hifi chain, between pc/laptop and the DSP processor (minidsp shd studio) or between the DSP processor and DAC?
Does the usb cable matter when connecting to a ddc? Do you hear any change in sound when switching usb cables?
Hi Alvin 👋😎
Hello!
Which DAC would benefit from which DDC? Like a ares 2 and pontus 2 would benefit from a iris and a venus would benefit from a hermes or gaia ddc. This would be realy nice to know.
I would opt for the following:
Iris + Ares 12th
Hermes + Pontus / Venus
Gaia + Terminator II/Plus
:)
Why do your DDCs not provide an I2S input???
@@MiloPragerSEhe wants a input...not onother output
No i2s input sir. DENAFRIPS DDC accepts USB/SPDIF/AESEBU :)
But won’t the Clock in the DAC reclock the signal from the DDC??
not from the i²s input. because clocksignal is also seperat in the i²s signal transportet.
The DENAFRIPS DAC reclocks all inputs using its internal crystals. However, it's worth noting that the DDC can still have a significant impact on the quality of the digital signal processing.
While the DAC itself is capable of reclocking the signal, the addition of a DDC can further enhance the overall performance of the digital audio chain.
As reported by owners who introduced a DDC into their signal chain, they have noticed a not-subtle and substantial improvement in sound quality, and they are delighted with the favorable outcomes resulting from the addition of the DDC.
I2S is a Synchronous connection, meaning the upstream component (DDC in this case) and not the downstream component/DAC’s clock will be processing the reading, timing and jitter reduction of the digital signal. USB is an asynchronous connection meaning the downstream component’s clock will be doing the work. Streamer/computer to DDC via USB allows the DDC’s clock to be used (asynchronous), DDC to DAC via I2S still allows the DDC’s clock to be used as the main clock (synchronous).
No I2S input??? Sorry then I need to look elsewhere?
No i2s input sir. It accepts USB/SPDIF/AESEBU :)
But i have to say something. Yeah you dont increase the price, but you also switch from elna capacitors to no name capaciters. Hiding the OCXC underneath a plastic so no one can see whats realy in use for the new ddc. only bigger transformer and a ac inlet and no firmware update....hmm. no one in this world has something for free to give away...i think its more like a downgrade in parts for the same price...considering the inflation is the same price realy good but with the more high priced parts it was a better deal.
i got a venus 2 12th edition and i am realy happy with it, but there were the same steps made for a "upgrade"...bigger transformer but lower priced parts for capacitors. same price for the dac.
the products sound great...but i think its more to save cost in parts so the price can remain the same
I appreciate and respect your frank opinion, sir.
DENAFRIPS OEM the capacitors from a well known manufacturer according to their specifications (for sound quality). It is definitely not a cost cutting measure. The price differences (if there is), in my opinion, is gonna be small. It doesn't worthwhile for DENAFRIPS to save cost by using inferior parts to often our loyal customers.
The OCXO is enclosed within an aluminum housing to provide shielding.
While I value constructive criticism for its role in refinement, it's equally important to acknowledge and commend the diligent efforts of the DENAFRIPS team. They have dedicated countless hours to enhance the sound quality of their products, working tirelessly day and night.
This just came in a while ago, a customer who owns the older Gaia for several years, and purchased the Gaia 12th recently, he is quite happy with the 12th :)
www.denafrips.com/single-post/wow-to-put-it-frankly-i-thought-the-gaia-12th-would-be-a-subtle-upgrade
@@VinshineAudiothe review sounds pretty good. I still got the hermes ddc on my wishlist. at the moment my gustard u18 is feeding my venus 2 12th edition. but only via aes, i²s sounds not even as good as usb dirctly into the venus. but aes sound realy better than usb directly into the venus. I am using only Nordost cables. Heimdall 2 aes and i²s is a nordost Blue Heaven usb. Usb cable itself is a Heimdall 2 usb cable. Streamer is a ifi zen streamer with upgraded power suply. power cord for the venus is a nordost frey 2 and the interconnect is a xlr valhalla 1. for pre amp i got a accuphase c2120 wich is powerd by a frey 2 power cord. It feeds a accuphase p4200 poweramp. which is feedet with a tyr 1 xlr and Tyr 2 power cord...all is feedet by a ps audio p5 power plant...which is feeded by a tyr 2 power cord...got all out nordost cables and power cleaners.
Speakers are 804D2 with frey 2 spesker cables and reference jumpers.
i realy apriciate the venus 2 sound...very natural analog and rifined sounding dac. sounds best with dsd files👍. but it also sound very good with wav...and streaming of tidal.
Why they don't isolated in mumetal enclosure. It reduce 30dB noise . Even resistor part that use for D/A converter should be in metal enclosure with such as mumetal.
Thanks for the constructive feedback, I appreciate it!
Is it possible to send my first edition Gaia plus $300 USD and get a 2nd edition. I highly suggest jf your company is going to so frequently increase the quality of your products and not the price you are going to lose sales from the people who got you noticed in the first place.
Keep you old one, better components were used in the older ones...
@heinzbecker691 hi Hanz interesting. What aspects of the older ones are better than the new ones? Also, I wanted to pick your brain for a while now on if you though upgrading the flga firmware on the Terminator 2 units actually produced a better quality sound or is it a side grade/downgrade simply used as an ad campaign to sell more units? I really like Alvin and Denafrips, always have, but as soon as they started in with thjs 12th edjtion nonsense, all it did was devalue my original gear. I don't think thats a good way to honor your long-time supporters, and I don't understand their reasoning behind it.
@@Psychopomp33 i dont understand i either completely. But i think its to more like to getting new customers. For me it was a worthy upgrade to go to the venus 2 12th edition. I was watching denafrips and realy waiting for newer products to drop...
In the dac buisiness is 5 years an eternity. but otherwise fpga based dacs are not realy getting old...firmware updates can bring new life into these dacs.
In the case of the V2 12th are the upgrade inside the dac the biggest of the whole dena dac line up in my opinion. The power section is realy upgraded...the pontus or ares didnt get those big steps...much more or less minor upgrades.
i dont know much about the t2 to t2 12th changes and didnt hear them. for my part the V2 12th sound realy realy good and satisfys me enough to not think about a dac upgrade in the near future. i plan to go with a hermes ddc...thats all...maybe a gaia used unit. at the moment i use a gustard u18 ddc via AES. i²s doesn work for pcm and dsd...only one of them. but it sounds with aes better than i²s in my case. think the oscilaters are better inside the V2 12th than the gustard ones.
@@Psychopomp33 what exaclty is better...i think its the capacitors. those parts are now in house ones and before there were elna or nichicon ones. those coste much more..but if they sound much different....i dont know.
Ohh I see m/ thank you for your response. You're essentially saying Denafrips is going for a cash grap by rebranding their 12th generation DDC, and are not tell their customers they are actually using cheaper parts to produce them? 🤔 what about upgrades in technology. Are they virtually the same?
I still don’t understand what this does
It isolates a digital signal that may or may not have excessive amounts of jitter & reclocks it. This essentially gives the DAC an easier to interpret signal free of jitter.
it simply reclocks the whole signal and cleans it up powerwise. less noise and less jitter.
The higher the quality of the crystallaters, the less jitter....its more fluid and realistic sound...its getting more details but at the same time its getting more analog.
every fpga based dac got at the end a ddc build inside. because its reclocking the whole signal so its not the source signal anymore. for example the pontus and venus got 2 transformers inside. one for dac part and one for ddc part.
but if you are using an external ddc which cleans up and reclocks the signal can be beneficial to the sound, but it has to be of a higher quality than the ddc which is inside you dac.
A digital cleaner & switch.
You guys are spot on!
I have never heard such a lot of bull shit in the 53 years being an electronic engineer working in die audio field.
maybe you should go out of your factory or lab, and really try one of these things, they do wonders for ears, and they do reduce jetters if you are insist on reading charts