Glad you mentioned Elmer Keith, I'm old enough (Almost 70) to have met and talked with Elmer a few times and talked to him on the phone several times. A good friend of mine (Now deceased) spent a lot of time with Elmer every year since the early 60's and had some home movies of him shooting, including a pair of Smith and Wesson .44 Magnums at the same time when he was in his mid 60's The good old days.
I'm almost 70 allso and remember Keith Wrighting articles for guns an ammo magazine. Friend o mine met him years ago in loel ia out side o Burlington at some kind o simulated police shoot.loel is about 15 or20 people and skunk river flows through there.he said kieth reminded him of yosemi sam rooten tooten shooten big hat and cigar. So who woulda thought he'd arrive in little town in ia.happy trails😅
Cyndi and I enjoy your videos… and attitude. We find them informative and entertaining. While re-evaluating some of our treasures, we discovered about ten pounds of balsa wood for which we have no use. If you would like to have this treasure… we would be happy to send it off to you, in appreciation for your contribution to our hobby. Sincerely, Paul and Cyndi
Hey Jake, try cleaning the "sensor windows" on the top of the chrono. With all the BP smoke that thing gets covered in on a regular basis, those sensor windows might just be too dirty for the sensors to read.
Jake, this is it. 😅. I’ve been in search of this evidence for years. Page 169 in “The muzzleloading cap lock rifle” by Ned H Roberts is the only hard evidence that supported the ideas I’ve had about historical black powder. I won’t go into details, but WOW. Made my year. I’m indebted. O.R.
Moot point since you bought the new one, but the way those ChronoDLX chronos work is by photodetection. There's two sensors that detect light and sense when there's an interruption in the light source (such as from a bullet passing). The ears on top are there to diffuse the light reaching the sensors to provide better detection of interruptions. Direct sunlight screws with them, and you may notice that the shadows of the ears weren't on the sensors. If you put it in shade, or put a piece of translucent plastic or cloth over the ears to create a tent you'll see much better results. Towards the end there, I suspect you had built up enough black powder haze to diffuse the sunlight enough to let it work.
Sounds like you know a lot more about chronographs than me but I discovered the same thing with mine. It doesn’t like direct sunlight. I tape a sheet of white plastic over the top to make a tent and keep the sensors shaded. Seems to work a lot better.
My guess is the Garmin will react the same for you as the one the guy at the range was using, NOT. Too much smoke out of my Sharps. Hope not. As for you old chrono, aim a little lower, say 3 to 6 inches.
You should compare your old junky chrono and the new Garmin to make sure your velocities are within a certain margin and one isn't reading way higher than the other.
Man am I glad that it wasn’t a super performer! I burn anthracite coal in a coal stove in the living room. It can burn about anything. Once upon a time, I had a bunch of moldy dry beans. I thought it frugal to burn them so as not to suffer a total loss. Big , BIG mistake. A couple pounds of burning beans can stink up a whole valley.
I love my Garmin. As long as it's within 15" from the muzzle, it works every time with my muzzleloaders. Smoke is not a problem, and it doesn't get confused with patches or wads.
By the angle of the shadow on your tripod, it looks like you are filming in the morning so the sun is at a funky angle and the chrono doesn't like it. It improved as the sun rose, it seems. It will be interesting to see how the Garmin performs. I don't think I have seen it used with BP stuff or even shotgun rounds yet.
I'm happy to see you've finally replaced your chronograph. When you took the ears off of it I thought you were going to shoot it. Either on purpose or accidentally. Years ago I had a neighbour who shot theirs accidentally after they took the ears off. He wasn't happy! :-)
Idk if our youtuber friend will see this but his chrony issues are from running it on clear sunny days. I havr had the most reliability from my caldwell ballistic chronograph while not using the sun shade and using it on overcast days where the sky is white with clouds
Twenty plus years ago when I had my first chronograph (one of the fold up Chrony with fiber board aiming guides) I kept a 500 round box of Remington 22Long Rifle ammo that I fired from one specific rifle to verify the chrony was reading at lest close to where it should be before starting any real testing.
Hello,Fudd!I 've found something interested me recently，which is called "ammonpulver".This stuff was used as a substitute of smokeless powder at the last period of WWII German .And it has a pretty simple recipe,including 87%AN and 13% charcoal,hope you shall have a try❤❤❤
Although interesting idea, from what I've found ammonium nitrate is quite corrosive to brass. And generally, potassium nitrate has one huge advantage - one can make it at home on one's own without any harsh chemicals, and generally in most places is itself less restricted than ammonium nitrate.
I was impressed when you mentioned Elmer Keith. Haven't heard his name in a while, but he is a handgun legend. Don't even want to imagine what that green pea charcoal smelled like. Thanks for another interesting video. I will be looking forward in finding out if the present chrono will become a target when the new chrono gets there. lol Phil
I’m making a new batch at the same ratio with a new ball mill. Our old one was done to one lifter block out of 4 and I think it hampers the performance. If it performs the same then fine but I’m expecting to see an improvement.
Jake,I am a high end custom trandional bow builder of 40 years experience. During my journey I have become a very analytical engineer willing to try new but well thought out ideas and be prepared to accept that the trail to world class products are paved with test that may not yield exactly the result I was looking for but there was always a lesson to learn. Sometimes a dismal failure. All to often people want to rush to the title of master or authority. The path that you and your accomplice have taken reminds me of my journey. Often crafting ones own gadgets. I have become skilled at so many facets of my Craft to include chemistry. I very much appreciate each vid you touch just briefly enough so a new viewer can pick up a sense. Sort of like picking up a that is part of a series in an airport for reading on the plane but the book is somewhere in the middle of the series. I admire your delivery and your character. You have a magnetic delivery. Your dialog with the accomplice is also entertaining. I have also made that " stuff " but have to make time to test some of your test. My pylorizer is a outside wood stove. I live in Northern Michigan. Keep up the good work.
Bill Knight aka Mad Monk (The Open Range: The complete Mad Monk files) had told my cousin and I about green pea charcoal. His experience with it was it burns cooler and thus doesn't bake the fouling dry on the bores of repeaters but came at a loss in velocity that matches your tests. About 100 fps. The real bonus to green pea char is supposedly that it keeps the fouling soft in dry hot areas like Arizona, South Cali and such. It was found that older powder blends just couldn't keep repeaters going in the climate extremes in the south west so this was the fix. You might prove this using a level action loaded with powder with and without green pea char and use a laser thermometer to get a reading on barrel temp after 10-12 shots. Might find a difference, might find it was all BS old mens tales. Thank you for referencing that book. I'd not heard of that one. I'm eager to see how the Garmin does. I almost got one but worried about the radar picking up wads and patching material and causing false readings.
I shot some of my Old's patent yesterday along side of some other bp loads and it was noticeably far easier to push a patch through the Old's fouling. Not my fastest or cleanest powder but has the softest fouling and MS is very good. I think a fouling that doesn't cake helps maintain a more consistent bore condition and a low MS. Agree that more exploration into this powder is warranted.
I hope you read this comment!! I have the same chrony you do. It works on shadows. And hates sunny days. But mine works great, even on sunny days. All you need to do is put a fairly large piece of cardboard over the top. I have a piece about 24x20". It really does make a huge difference. I only need it in the middle of the day. I won't cost you very much to try, and it works for me. I hope it will work for you.
The clip you showed after announcing you purchased a Garmin was absolutely perfect, because that's what I did, lol. Love the videos, please keep 'em comin'.
I was really hoping to see you pull a Scott from Kentucky on that chronograph . Now that you have a Garmin , maybe a bit of target practice on the o;d green chrony . Another informative on funny video .Thanks much .
I tried a batch of this several months ago and got similar results. This is US patent 381507. Yes, the smell.....the whole yard reeked of burnt split pea soup. Looking forward to see how the Garmin works out. I am using the Labradar but it can be rather fussy sometimes.
I totally expected that, without giving anything away, the anger at ye' olde chrono would build 'til it was shot... then, in the next scene, the Garmin would make its surprise grand entrance. Well, it didn't go that way, but we did get the announcement of the purchase, and BTW, to those who contributed to the purchase in any amount, you are awesome, thank you for helping them upgrade their "game".
I noticed that with 3/4 of the shots where chrono wouldn't read, there'd been a huge cloud of smoke just hang right on it. With the revolver, little puff of smoke and it seemed to read pretty well. So, chrono might work, it just needs to be a day breezy enough to clear the smoke so it doesn't confuse the sensor about what to read.
Its picking up your patch, My old man and I were having the same issue. We stepped back a little farther and was getting better readings. It was reading the patches as the roundball went through. Oh and the discarding sabots wad killed our chrony at 15 yards, had to cage it with steel mesh on the front.
I'm curious if the cylinder continue to free turn normally beyond 25 or so rounds which seems to be the limit without at least wiping the cylinder gap area down. Not sure if you got that many rounds fired.
I think you will like the Garmin. The most trouble you will have is not losing or misplacing it since it is so small, LOL. Don't shoot the other one, despite temptation. Nice to always have a backup.
Just an anectode. My experience with crimson powder and mixes of BP with ascorbic acid in it also makes soft fouling. These are all sulfurless compositions.
Sulfur is going to be gas in the form of sulfur dioxide and hydrogen sulfide after ignition. Ascorbic acid will give more gas products as well. I still use 3% each sulfur and toilet paper charcoal in my homegrown Grey MZ but the remaining fuel is sodium benzoate and NC resin binder. The sulfur and charcoal help lower ignition temp and ensure reliable firing with percussion caps. My Grey MZ consistently outperforms Goex +20% velocity
@@schinderiapraemeturus6239 Of course it outperforms goex, it has NC in it. You've made proto-smokeless. And what happens then hot potassium oxide comes into contact with sulfur dioxide?
@@smily4692 Grey MZ: 50 potassium nitrate. 25 potassium perchlorate 3 sulfur 3 charcoal. 10 sodium benzoate 8-9 smokeless powder (any type- dissolved into acetone/alcohol to make a resin). Mill all dry ingredients for at least 24hrs, add these into 91% isopropyl alcohol to make a paste, blend this with high agitation with the lacquer to form a dough, sieve the dough through screens to get desired particle size
Take a Q-Tip with alcohol and clean the light sensors. I got too close to mine with some 577/450 and the concussion blew the ears off it and broke the light switch. After that I was getting error readings and nonsense in the 200s, but I cleaned it up and it works again.
Bet if you're kibler was a repeater that chronograph would have been ventilated several videos ago. As per usual great video love the information. It is fascinating how someone thought hmm let's try peas , would be nice if it worked with broccoli though.
The radar based unit should be more resistant to errors due to the fouling ejected right along with or following the boolits. Again, once the breeze slowed a bit and later with revolver it changed left to rignt, the Chrony worked. Multiple reads screw it up.
I wonder if the higher oil content in peas might have something to do with the soft fouling. Perhaps an experiment of adding a couple CC's of vegetable oil to the milling process of a known good powder to see what happens to the fouling and chrono speed.
Sorry I missed the LIve maybe that's why they liked it so much due to the cleanliness and the max spread being so low definitely looks worthy of further testing thank you Jake and good luck with the new chronograph
Id like to see this test again with the new chrono considering the previous/current chrono's issues... IF you dare to make the pea powder again that is. Love the videos, boys! Love the information! Always look forward to your videos.
Try this. Get a large fan (and a generator if you don't have electricity there) to blow the smoke while chronographing. I think it is reading either your patch or unburned powder.
i think going back and doing the stoicio metric for the cottenell, milling for 48-72 hours would be really interesting, also messing with the pea charcoal and normal charcoal ratio in other videos could lead to further break thrus, i think the stocio and pea if optimized might make a really really clean powder when combined. for all we know the stoicio metric, with pea and balsa charcoal might be the ultimate soft clean powder with good velocity when all combined.
@@Everythingblackpowder- I was thinking along the same lines as @stevenmike1878 so I crunched some numbers on making stociometric powder with carbonized peas. To keep the ratio of wood to peas the same as Chauncey’s patent but at stociometric 15% carbon source instead of Chauncey’s 16%, you would use 10.78% wood and 4.22% peas. That’s some really fine measuring, so myself, I’d go with 11% Cottonwood and 4% carbonized peas. Of course 8% Sulfur and 77% Potassium Nitrate.
Great video as usual. Some thoughts on the chronograph "issues"......my very old "Shooting Crony" started to give me more grief than usual, to the point where I got a different make of chronograph as a replacement. Having nothing to loose I disassembled the Shooting Crony and discovered that the lenses above on the optical sensors had gotten quite dirty, no doubt from shooting thousands of bullets over the thing, most of them cast bullets with the resulting greasy smoke. So you might want to give that one of yours a similar treatment. I too would like to get one of the Garmin units as I'm sick of all the BS associated with optical chronographs, if I can bring myself to spend that much cash on one.
They were smarter than that. They probably just thought about making a blended charcoal that had the best perks of both the power of low density hardwood and the easy cleaning of something that doesn't burn as good. I have a couple of mixes like that made from 75% cottonwood and 25% oak. Burns fast and cleaner than straight cottonwood.
Use your usual BP ratio. Change only one parameter at a time; the composition of the charcoal, as you have done in the past. It is possible to change two or more parameters if you use an appropriate statistical methodology, but that requires multiple samples. When you extended your milling time, you made no changes to the powder composition, and that was the best method for you to use. Stick with it.
Bravo, good job. This black gun powder recipe looks very interesting, which came about at the end of the black gunpowder era. Have you ever researched and tried to copy the special Fine Sporting Pistol-Revolver Gunpowder that was developed by both Samuel Colt and General Augustus George Hazzard, of the Hazzard Powder Company? That special Fine Sporting Pistol-revolver gunpowder was said to be around a Four to Five FG granulation size ( FFFFFG). It was also said to make a cap&ball percussion revolver to be very effective, powerful. When the Colt 45 metallic cartridge came about, they were not loaded with the Fine Sporting Pistol-revolver gunpowder as it is apparent that the pressures of the Fine Sporting Pistol-revolver gunpowder were too great and 40 grains of FFG gunpowder was instead used.
Cool Video, despite stinking, carbonized green peas look pretty cool. And not that you need advice from me, but I always take a 22 or a .38 or something to shoot over the chrono to make sure things are working before running my test ammo. I am assuming once you receive and test the Garmen, we will see a shoot the old chrono video!
Carbon green peas... I have enough trouble with my wife regarding reloading. If I were to add the smell to the mix, my wife would disown me. 🤣 Seriously, this was a good video even with the chronograph issues. I'm looking forward to seeing the new chronograph in action.
I wonder what the variables are that make a chronograph work better or not. If I'm not mistaken, many of them work by light, so the angle at which you're shooting and the time of day might effect it in a significant way. Both sunlight on the graph and sunlight on the bullet might make it hard to read the velocity. Might be worth moving the chronograph and trying to shoot at a different angle if it's just choosing to not work.
That chronograph uses the shadow of the bullet against the plastic ear things to calculate speed. It's not working because of the position of the Sun. If you move your chronograph with relation to the sun it'll work. Or put the Chrono in the shade Or better yet just go get a Garmin
Thank you for more great info. I look foward to a review of the Garman soon. I'm considering one in the near future. Trying to mill some propellent today but it keeps clumping on one end, not sure what's causing the problem.
As I was watching I hoped the green pea powder was about to become famous for shooting that old Chrony!! I got a Garmin last year and love it. Hope it works for you too.
Jake nothing to suck here. I am always amazed at the amount of research you do to find new twists to do what you do. As for the smell of the peas, I guess your wife has never burned a pot of pinto beans? LOL.
I'm buying a bayonet style chronograph next week for smokeless load development. I am looking forward to testing my 250gr rnfp over 35gr of 3f in 45lc as well.
So, I too had chronological issues today🤷♂️………and I, too, ordered a new garmin. Funny thing, As I mentioned I loaded five 4570 cartridges with 60 grains of three of Swiss and five cartridges of three of homemade powder which was Cottonelle ultra care and my chronograph refused to cooperate however when I loaded them the funny thing is the Swiss took up more space in the case than my homemade powder and 60 grains volumetric actuallyWeighed 54.6…….So when my Garmin gets here at the first of the week I will check out the velocities and will advise you in the meantime keep up the good comment we love the channel
I see a lot of people turning Caldwell chronographs upside down. Something about the sensors being too sensitive and getting washed out by sunlight or something like that.
You chronograph is probably a bit pants to start with, but as it's optical it's not going to like being obscured by powder smoke and may even pick up fouling and get worse over time if your not cleaning it. But you'll love the Garmin, so we'll get a lot less "k-pows".
Peas in his antique muzzle loading propellant? I don’t know… I remember reading something about a wine drinking bishop being preferred, but it was a really old reference.
Have you ever tried to fire the powder as milled? like before corning into grains. No doubt practicality and pourability will be worse but I can't tell if it'd be faster or slower burning, for example does it become "dead pressed" at too higher density and ignite like rocket fuel or does the uncorned powder "grains: burn faster due to its higher surface area.
On this episode of Everything Black Powder we see if a chronograph can stop a 50 cal..... round ball.
😂
Sounds like some sort of EBP/KB collab.
Once the garmin comes you need take out your vengeance on it. We’ll sit back with popcorn and enjoy the show
.45 calibre....
What's the definition of insanity?
Competition Electronics says; "If you don't like our chrony, go make your own damned chronograph". lol
😂😂😂😂😂
🤣
So perfect
Glad you mentioned Elmer Keith, I'm old enough (Almost 70) to have met and talked with Elmer a few times and talked to him on the phone several times. A good friend of mine (Now deceased) spent a lot of time with Elmer every year since the early 60's and had some home movies of him shooting, including a pair of Smith and Wesson .44 Magnums at the same time when he was in his mid 60's The good old days.
I'm almost 70 allso and remember Keith Wrighting articles for guns an ammo magazine. Friend o mine met him years ago in loel ia out side o Burlington at some kind o simulated police shoot.loel is about 15 or20 people and skunk river flows through there.he said kieth reminded him of yosemi sam rooten tooten shooten big hat and cigar. So who woulda thought he'd arrive in little town in ia.happy trails😅
Spell check wants to change “black powder” to “black power” on my cell phone. Try using that.
Lol, probably get it boosted by the algy.
😂👍
Oh lordy probably will
Oh lordy probably will
I mean... It IS powerful and it IS black...
Cyndi and I enjoy your videos… and attitude. We find them informative and entertaining. While re-evaluating some of our treasures, we discovered about ten pounds of balsa wood for which we have no use. If you would like to have this treasure… we would be happy to send it off to you, in appreciation for your contribution to our hobby.
Sincerely,
Paul and Cyndi
Thank you, that would be great. Here is my email everythingblackpowder@gmailcom
Hey Jake, try cleaning the "sensor windows" on the top of the chrono. With all the BP smoke that thing gets covered in on a regular basis, those sensor windows might just be too dirty for the sensors to read.
Jake, this is it. 😅. I’ve been in search of this evidence for years. Page 169 in “The muzzleloading cap lock rifle” by Ned H Roberts is the only hard evidence that supported the ideas I’ve had about historical black powder. I won’t go into details, but WOW. Made my year. I’m indebted. O.R.
Glad to hear it!
Moot point since you bought the new one, but the way those ChronoDLX chronos work is by photodetection. There's two sensors that detect light and sense when there's an interruption in the light source (such as from a bullet passing). The ears on top are there to diffuse the light reaching the sensors to provide better detection of interruptions. Direct sunlight screws with them, and you may notice that the shadows of the ears weren't on the sensors. If you put it in shade, or put a piece of translucent plastic or cloth over the ears to create a tent you'll see much better results. Towards the end there, I suspect you had built up enough black powder haze to diffuse the sunlight enough to let it work.
Sounds like you know a lot more about chronographs than me but I discovered the same thing with mine. It doesn’t like direct sunlight. I tape a sheet of white plastic over the top to make a tent and keep the sensors shaded. Seems to work a lot better.
I hope the Garmin will preform at its best this old crono seems to be done, and thank you for your efforts i just love you guys.
My guess is the Garmin will react the same for you as the one the guy at the range was using, NOT. Too much smoke out of my Sharps. Hope not. As for you old chrono, aim a little lower, say 3 to 6 inches.
You should compare your old junky chrono and the new Garmin to make sure your velocities are within a certain margin and one isn't reading way higher than the other.
That’s the plan
@@Everythingblackpowder I figured. You guys are pretty damn good at staying on top of things. Keep it up 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
@@Everythingblackpowder Then we shoot the old one, right?.... Right??!!
You’re the best. Powder developer we have keep up the great work mate 👍
Man am I glad that it wasn’t a super performer!
I burn anthracite coal in a coal stove in the living room. It can burn about anything.
Once upon a time, I had a bunch of moldy dry beans.
I thought it frugal to burn them so as not to suffer a total loss.
Big , BIG mistake. A couple pounds of burning beans can stink up a whole valley.
P.S. I ain’t charing no dang beans!
😂
@@chopsddy3
🤣
😂😅😂😅😂😅😂
first
And somewhere, Danny caught the empty shell
while the chrono didnt work, you did a fine test of the fouling.
Evidence localized time dialiation exists: Longest 67 min left until premier ever.
I love my Garmin. As long as it's within 15" from the muzzle, it works every time with my muzzleloaders. Smoke is not a problem, and it doesn't get confused with patches or wads.
By the angle of the shadow on your tripod, it looks like you are filming in the morning so the sun is at a funky angle and the chrono doesn't like it. It improved as the sun rose, it seems. It will be interesting to see how the Garmin performs. I don't think I have seen it used with BP stuff or even shotgun rounds yet.
I asked a few other BP guys that have them and they swear by them.
@@Everythingblackpowder I might have to wait until the cheap Chinese clones come out.
Can you 2 please come together for a collab already??!!
Thanks for this share and congratulations for your brand new Garmin !
I'm happy to see you've finally replaced your chronograph. When you took the ears off of it I thought you were going to shoot it. Either on purpose or accidentally. Years ago I had a neighbour who shot theirs accidentally after they took the ears off. He wasn't happy! :-)
Funny you mention Elmer Keith, he's a home town hero here abouts in Salmon ID.
You guys are pretty damn good at this stuff
Thank you
Idk if our youtuber friend will see this but his chrony issues are from running it on clear sunny days. I havr had the most reliability from my caldwell ballistic chronograph while not using the sun shade and using it on overcast days where the sky is white with clouds
I work on daisy bb guns from time to time and the only time I can get the shiny steel bbs to read is on an overcast day without the sun shades on
Twenty plus years ago when I had my first chronograph (one of the fold up Chrony with fiber board aiming guides) I kept a 500 round box of Remington 22Long Rifle ammo that I fired from one specific rifle to verify the chrony was reading at lest close to where it should be before starting any real testing.
Hello,Fudd!I 've found something interested me recently，which is called "ammonpulver".This stuff was used as a substitute of smokeless powder at the last period of WWII German .And it has a pretty simple recipe,including 87%AN and 13% charcoal,hope you shall have a try❤❤❤
Although interesting idea, from what I've found ammonium nitrate is quite corrosive to brass. And generally, potassium nitrate has one huge advantage - one can make it at home on one's own without any harsh chemicals, and generally in most places is itself less restricted than ammonium nitrate.
I was impressed when you mentioned Elmer Keith. Haven't heard his name in a while, but he is a handgun legend. Don't even want to imagine what that green pea charcoal smelled like. Thanks for another interesting video. I will be looking forward in finding out if the present chrono will become a target when the new chrono gets there. lol Phil
I have seen this in discarded book from back in early 1920s interesting great show.thanks it's appreciated
Peas! Who'd have thunk....I too think dropping back the pea ratio eould be a worthy experiment. Cool vid. Thanks
I’m making a new batch at the same ratio with a new ball mill. Our old one was done to one lifter block out of 4 and I think it hampers the performance. If it performs the same then fine but I’m expecting to see an improvement.
Great video again. Wish I understood more about what makes blk powder explosive.
Jake,I am a high end custom trandional bow builder of 40 years experience. During my journey I have become a very analytical engineer willing to try new but well thought out ideas and be prepared to accept that the trail to world class products are paved with test that may not yield exactly the result I was looking for but there was always a lesson to learn. Sometimes a dismal failure. All to often people want to rush to the title of master or authority. The path that you and your accomplice have taken reminds me of my journey. Often crafting ones own gadgets. I have become skilled at so many facets of my Craft to include chemistry. I very much appreciate each vid you touch just briefly enough so a new viewer can pick up a sense. Sort of like picking up a that is part of a series in an airport for reading on the plane but the book is somewhere in the middle of the series. I admire your delivery and your character. You have a magnetic delivery. Your dialog with the accomplice is also entertaining. I have also made that " stuff " but have to make time to test some of your test. My pylorizer is a outside wood stove. I live in Northern Michigan. Keep up the good work.
Nothing gets a tapestry of profanity woven faster than frusteration. Trust me, i know.
As always, my compliments sir, for yet another fantastic video!
Great job. Thank you Jake
Bill Knight aka Mad Monk (The Open Range: The complete Mad Monk files) had told my cousin and I about green pea charcoal. His experience with it was it burns cooler and thus doesn't bake the fouling dry on the bores of repeaters but came at a loss in velocity that matches your tests. About 100 fps.
The real bonus to green pea char is supposedly that it keeps the fouling soft in dry hot areas like Arizona, South Cali and such.
It was found that older powder blends just couldn't keep repeaters going in the climate extremes in the south west so this was the fix.
You might prove this using a level action loaded with powder with and without green pea char and use a laser thermometer to get a reading on barrel temp after 10-12 shots. Might find a difference, might find it was all BS old mens tales.
Thank you for referencing that book. I'd not heard of that one. I'm eager to see how the Garmin does. I almost got one but worried about the radar picking up wads and patching material and causing false readings.
I second all of this. Bill had said much the same to me and pea charcoal was used by Curtis & Harvey for their best powder in Britain.
I shot some of my Old's patent yesterday along side of some other bp loads and it was noticeably far easier to push a patch through the Old's fouling. Not my fastest or cleanest powder but has the softest fouling and MS is very good. I think a fouling that doesn't cake helps maintain a more consistent bore condition and a low MS. Agree that more exploration into this powder is warranted.
FINALLY A RADAR! It's going to change your life, and for the better! Good call bro also awesome work thanks for sharing!
Yes, tweak. I think there are gains to be made here. Good video, its nice to see other people struggle too.
I hope you read this comment!! I have the same chrony you do. It works on shadows. And hates sunny days. But mine works great, even on sunny days. All you need to do is put a fairly large piece of cardboard over the top. I have a piece about 24x20". It really does make a huge difference. I only need it in the middle of the day. I won't cost you very much to try, and it works for me. I hope it will work for you.
The clip you showed after announcing you purchased a Garmin was absolutely perfect, because that's what I did, lol. Love the videos, please keep 'em comin'.
Excellent video thank you for sharing this with us six stars brother
I was really hoping to see you pull a Scott from Kentucky on that chronograph . Now that you have a Garmin , maybe a bit of target practice on the o;d green chrony . Another informative on funny video .Thanks much .
I tried a batch of this several months ago and got similar results. This is US patent 381507. Yes, the smell.....the whole yard reeked of burnt split pea soup. Looking forward to see how the Garmin works out. I am using the Labradar but it can be rather fussy sometimes.
Yeah ill be watching
Now that you have a new Crono, assuming its works good, you have GOT to make a video putting some holes in the old one!
I'd keep your old Chrono, you might be able to figure out what went wrong.
I totally expected that, without giving anything away, the anger at ye' olde chrono would build 'til it was shot... then, in the next scene, the Garmin would make its surprise grand entrance. Well, it didn't go that way, but we did get the announcement of the purchase, and BTW, to those who contributed to the purchase in any amount, you are awesome, thank you for helping them upgrade their "game".
I noticed that with 3/4 of the shots where chrono wouldn't read, there'd been a huge cloud of smoke just hang right on it. With the revolver, little puff of smoke and it seemed to read pretty well. So, chrono might work, it just needs to be a day breezy enough to clear the smoke so it doesn't confuse the sensor about what to read.
Its picking up your patch, My old man and I were having the same issue. We stepped back a little farther and was getting better readings. It was reading the patches as the roundball went through. Oh and the discarding sabots wad killed our chrony at 15 yards, had to cage it with steel mesh on the front.
Interesting, thanks for another informative video! 🤠👍🍺
I'm curious if the cylinder continue to free turn normally beyond 25 or so rounds which seems to be the limit without at least wiping the cylinder gap area down. Not sure if you got that many rounds fired.
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉yay!!!!
Glad you got the Garmin!!!!!!
And glad to help❤❤
Thanks again!
I think you will like the Garmin. The most trouble you will have is not losing or misplacing it since it is so small, LOL. Don't shoot the other one, despite temptation. Nice to always have a backup.
Put one of those big bright red *"Remove Before Flight"* pennants on it
Just an anectode. My experience with crimson powder and mixes of BP with ascorbic acid in it also makes soft fouling. These are all sulfurless compositions.
How did you grit the crimson powder?
Sulfur is going to be gas in the form of sulfur dioxide and hydrogen sulfide after ignition. Ascorbic acid will give more gas products as well. I still use 3% each sulfur and toilet paper charcoal in my homegrown Grey MZ but the remaining fuel is sodium benzoate and NC resin binder. The sulfur and charcoal help lower ignition temp and ensure reliable firing with percussion caps. My Grey MZ consistently outperforms Goex +20% velocity
@@schinderiapraemeturus6239 What ist the mixing ratio with potassium nitrate?
@@schinderiapraemeturus6239
Of course it outperforms goex, it has NC in it. You've made proto-smokeless.
And what happens then hot potassium oxide comes into contact with sulfur dioxide?
@@smily4692 Grey MZ: 50 potassium nitrate. 25 potassium perchlorate 3 sulfur 3 charcoal. 10 sodium benzoate 8-9 smokeless powder (any type- dissolved into acetone/alcohol to make a resin). Mill all dry ingredients for at least 24hrs, add these into 91% isopropyl alcohol to make a paste, blend this with high agitation with the lacquer to form a dough, sieve the dough through screens to get desired particle size
Take a Q-Tip with alcohol and clean the light sensors. I got too close to mine with some 577/450 and the concussion blew the ears off it and broke the light switch. After that I was getting error readings and nonsense in the 200s, but I cleaned it up and it works again.
Bet if you're kibler was a repeater that chronograph would have been ventilated several videos ago. As per usual great video love the information. It is fascinating how someone thought hmm let's try peas , would be nice if it worked with broccoli though.
Can't wait for another great video.
Impressive results from the past.
The radar based unit should be more resistant to errors due to the fouling ejected right along with or following the boolits. Again, once the breeze slowed a bit and later with revolver it changed left to rignt, the Chrony worked. Multiple reads screw it up.
I wonder if the higher oil content in peas might have something to do with the soft fouling. Perhaps an experiment of adding a couple CC's of vegetable oil to the milling process of a known good powder to see what happens to the fouling and chrono speed.
Sorry I missed the LIve maybe that's why they liked it so much due to the cleanliness and the max spread being so low definitely looks worthy of further testing thank you Jake and good luck with the new chronograph
Id like to see this test again with the new chrono considering the previous/current chrono's issues... IF you dare to make the pea powder again that is.
Love the videos, boys! Love the information! Always look forward to your videos.
We are milling some right now
Congrats on the Garmin. I look forward to seeing it in your videos.
You need a diffuser for the prochrono when the sky is blue. Only on cloudy days you can use it bare like this. That should explain the misreadings
Try this. Get a large fan (and a generator if you don't have electricity there) to blow the smoke while chronographing. I think it is reading either your patch or unburned powder.
i think going back and doing the stoicio metric for the cottenell, milling for 48-72 hours would be really interesting,
also messing with the pea charcoal and normal charcoal ratio in other videos could lead to further break thrus, i think the stocio and pea if optimized might make a really really clean powder when combined.
for all we know the stoicio metric, with pea and balsa charcoal might be the ultimate soft clean powder with good velocity when all combined.
Good idea!
@@Everythingblackpowder- I was thinking along the same lines as @stevenmike1878 so I crunched some numbers on making stociometric powder with carbonized peas. To keep the ratio of wood to peas the same as Chauncey’s patent but at stociometric 15% carbon source instead of Chauncey’s 16%, you would use 10.78% wood and 4.22% peas. That’s some really fine measuring, so myself, I’d go with 11% Cottonwood and 4% carbonized peas. Of course 8% Sulfur and 77% Potassium Nitrate.
Great video as usual. Some thoughts on the chronograph "issues"......my very old "Shooting Crony" started to give me more grief than usual, to the point where I got a different make of chronograph as a replacement. Having nothing to loose I disassembled the Shooting Crony and discovered that the lenses above on the optical sensors had gotten quite dirty, no doubt from shooting thousands of bullets over the thing, most of them cast bullets with the resulting greasy smoke. So you might want to give that one of yours a similar treatment. I too would like to get one of the Garmin units as I'm sick of all the BS associated with optical chronographs, if I can bring myself to spend that much cash on one.
Makes me wonder what the hell those guys were thinking when they came up with these recipes. "Ma burned the peas and we can't let em go to waste".
They were smarter than that. They probably just thought about making a blended charcoal that had the best perks of both the power of low density hardwood and the easy cleaning of something that doesn't burn as good. I have a couple of mixes like that made from 75% cottonwood and 25% oak. Burns fast and cleaner than straight cottonwood.
You might try adjusting the amount of burned peas to see if you can regain the power and still keep the softening effect
Stale urine white willow is the civil war black powder I found in an old encyclopedia from the 1940`s.
Use your usual BP ratio. Change only one parameter at a time; the composition of the charcoal, as you have done in the past.
It is possible to change two or more parameters if you use an appropriate statistical methodology, but that requires multiple samples. When you extended your milling time, you made no changes to the powder composition, and that was the best method for you to use. Stick with it.
Ohhhh Gaaarrrrmiiiin!!😄
Great video! Thanks..
Did NOT Suck! Love your videos. God Bless
Thank you
Scott from Kentucky Ballistics handles those chronographs with tender loving care.
Bravo, good job. This black gun powder recipe looks very interesting, which came about at the end of the black gunpowder era.
Have you ever researched and tried to copy the special Fine Sporting Pistol-Revolver Gunpowder that was developed by both Samuel Colt and General Augustus George Hazzard, of the Hazzard Powder Company?
That special Fine Sporting Pistol-revolver gunpowder was said to be around a Four to Five FG granulation size ( FFFFFG). It was also said to make a cap&ball percussion revolver to be very effective, powerful.
When the Colt 45 metallic cartridge came about, they were not loaded with the Fine Sporting Pistol-revolver gunpowder as it is apparent that the pressures of the Fine Sporting Pistol-revolver gunpowder were too great and 40 grains of FFG gunpowder was instead used.
Thank you. It’s funny that you mention Augustus Hazard. I just ordered a book about him last night.
Cool Video, despite stinking, carbonized green peas look pretty cool. And not that you need advice from me, but I always take a 22 or a .38 or something to shoot over the chrono to make sure things are working before running my test ammo. I am assuming once you receive and test the Garmen, we will see a shoot the old chrono video!
What a man- moonshine powder maker!
Science AND fun. You guys rock
@@marktroiani5401 thank you
Always informative without any BS. Keep up the cracking work mate. Now you've reached 100K subs, we expect the boring as fk sponsorship ads.
@@MrBenski81 thank you. I do not except sponsorships
Carbon green peas... I have enough trouble with my wife regarding reloading. If I were to add the smell to the mix, my wife would disown me. 🤣 Seriously, this was a good video even with the chronograph issues. I'm looking forward to seeing the new chronograph in action.
Ham. It needs pyrolised ham to go with the peas 👨🏻🍳
When charcoaling wood , try it as wood shavings or sanding/saw dust
Could try milling it longer and see if it improves?
You guys should make a short video shooting your old chronograph
I think those chronographs have issues with certain times of the day since it's catching the shadow that jumps from one ear to the other.
I wonder what the variables are that make a chronograph work better or not. If I'm not mistaken, many of them work by light, so the angle at which you're shooting and the time of day might effect it in a significant way. Both sunlight on the graph and sunlight on the bullet might make it hard to read the velocity. Might be worth moving the chronograph and trying to shoot at a different angle if it's just choosing to not work.
I would have trouble with my chrony if the sun was behind it, too. They really don't like low light angles.
hello! it's surprising it should roll better since the green peas are round!.. good job I like what you do!
😂
That chronograph uses the shadow of the bullet against the plastic ear things to calculate speed.
It's not working because of the position of the Sun. If you move your chronograph with relation to the sun it'll work. Or put the Chrono in the shade
Or better yet just go get a Garmin
Thank you for more great info. I look foward to a review of the Garman soon. I'm considering one in the near future. Trying to mill some propellent today but it keeps clumping on one end, not sure what's causing the problem.
As I was watching I hoped the green pea powder was about to become famous for shooting that old Chrony!!
I got a Garmin last year and love it. Hope it works for you too.
Jake nothing to suck here. I am always amazed at the amount of research you do to find new twists to do what you do. As for the smell of the peas, I guess your wife has never burned a pot of pinto beans? LOL.
Thank you. My wife is Irish 😉
@Everythingblackpowder My wife is too but she grew up poor in West Virginia where pinto were a part of daily life.
And the Chrony says, "I hate the smell of that pea sh*t too, I ain't playing ball. Go ask another reader for a ball speed that likes the pea stink"
I'm buying a bayonet style chronograph next week for smokeless load development. I am looking forward to testing my 250gr rnfp over 35gr of 3f in 45lc as well.
I would try peanuts over green peas, the peanut oil should make soft fouling... just a thought.
that chrono made the worlds first semi auto flintlock lmao
So, I too had chronological issues today🤷♂️………and I, too, ordered a new garmin.
Funny thing, As I mentioned I loaded five 4570 cartridges with 60 grains of three of Swiss and five cartridges of three of homemade powder which was Cottonelle ultra care and my chronograph refused to cooperate however when I loaded them the funny thing is the Swiss took up more space in the case than my homemade powder and 60 grains volumetric actuallyWeighed 54.6…….So when my Garmin gets here at the first of the week I will check out the velocities and will advise you in the meantime keep up the good comment we love the channel
I see a lot of people turning Caldwell chronographs upside down. Something about the sensors being too sensitive and getting washed out by sunlight or something like that.
👌👌👍👍
You chronograph is probably a bit pants to start with, but as it's optical it's not going to like being obscured by powder smoke and may even pick up fouling and get worse over time if your not cleaning it.
But you'll love the Garmin, so we'll get a lot less "k-pows".
Peas in his antique muzzle loading propellant? I don’t know… I remember reading something about a wine drinking bishop being preferred, but it was a really old reference.
Jake, so when is the "chronograph shooting" party?😊
Soon, very soon…
Have you ever tried to fire the powder as milled? like before corning into grains. No doubt practicality and pourability will be worse but I can't tell if it'd be faster or slower burning, for example does it become "dead pressed" at too higher density and ignite like rocket fuel or does the uncorned powder "grains: burn faster due to its higher surface area.
@@xONEWINGx no I haven’t. I’ve always heard that it burns very slow and inconsistent