Kef 105 (1979) big vintage speakers what do they sound like ?
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Herei review in detail top of the range Kef 105 s from 1979
rated at 200 watts max .
tested using different amplifiers . (quad ,naim,sansui etc)
Source .Arcam alpha cd player .
I still own my 105’s which I purchased new in ‘79 for $1,800/pr. 4x the price of other premium spkrs at the time. They were technology-wise ahead of the competition. Even after 42yrs they still romance me with their overall dynamics. Depth, breath & soundstage is evident even today. I’ll never sell them, but leave them in my will to family. They are neutral & transparent, but don’t have the high frequency extension of today’s high end spkrs (ex; B&W 802 D3’s). This model was used by Nelson Pass, for his critical listening evaluations, of his then Threshold line equipment. I have since bought a 1980 Threshold Stasis3 amp & SL10 preamp, which produce a perfect magical match, which must be heard to be believed. The CLARITY of the Thresholds can’t be overstated, even those made by Levinson & Krell can’t approach what the Thresholds produce! These were only sold in computer-matched pairs, accuracy of .25db of each other, throughout their entire frequency range, truly phase coherent. They are extremely neutral & accurate. So much in fact, that they revel any shortcomings in a recording’s mix! Their crossover networks are perhaps their greatest asset, no bloom or bright spots, total smooth balance & transition. You could’ve provided more info. Like they are 80lbs each, & are on casters. Also the backside could’ve been illustrated, especially the head units; angle adjustability, peak wattage settings & indicators, they’re not warning lights. They’re not inefficient power-wise, but respond at their finest using Class A line equipment. They still impress my friends today🎼👍🏆😎.
I agree. My father has a pair of 105 "Mk 1", and while he changed electronics and tried other speakers over the years, he couldn't let go of the 105's.
I feel the 105 is on par with the 802 D3 except that I think the 105´s has a "bigger" sound. But if I would compare my first pair of 105´s with tired tweeters, I would agree on the HF. As a fellow 105 owner I know the feeling about never selling. I have two pairs. One good and one pretty bad. And I´m constantly looking for more parts or complete systems. It´s "105 for life" here too. It´s an honor to "speak" to an original owner. In 1979 I was only a school boy who tried to build speakers out of cardboard.
I've gotten a pair of KER Reference 105.4's which originally were from my grandfather. My father inherited them and passed them down on me as he's now using a different set of KEF's. These are a beast. Currently looking for a good amplifier to match with them, got luckily good advice from professionals so I'm looking forward to the sound. Your review of these just makes me even more pumped!
What amp did you end up using? We found the best amps (bang for buck) to be the old NAD Silverline series.
@@sarahX..dịch
@@kimngan9581 what?
the way you project reviews is certainly convincing and inspiring and i thank you for that on the subject of KEFs and that i suffer from collecting audio gear for a long time reaching my 60s l own kef 101s sealed box first speakers ever designed from a computer and kef 103/4 s with uni Q driver plus others and many amps to choose from im a strong believer that the more WATTS behind the speaker meaning headroom twice even three times as much results in a very smooth, tight and 3D sound with impressive stage presense i use vintage amps 40 yrs old american or recent amps canadian built here in my home town l feel that reputable vintage speakers can hold their own with the right amp
Dude, you must be my spirit animal. I just snagged a pair of these with a vintage Sansui amp set for 100 Canadian today. The guy was only asking 65 so I offered him a hundred and had my buddy go pick them up for me. Will be getting them tomorrow. I'm currently bouncing back and forth between Kef 104ab Reference Series, some Rogers LS1s and a pair of The Smaller Advents. Can't wait to hook these up and get em going! Apparently one of the tweeters needs repair but I'll get that done asap. Great channel and reviews, man! Keep it up.
Goodness me just found your channel this morning and WOW! the equipment you have collected over the years, these KEF's are monsters, bet you need to feed them some power, I only have vintage KEF speakers to be honest but I have tried lots of others and they just cannot cut the mustard when put up against KEF, I cannot cope with the modern speakers so it's vintage all the way for me and the pair I have settled with is the Reference 104-AB, not sure if you have had a pair of these but I had a pair of the 104's them I changed out the crossovers to the AB version and did the side by side comparison and my conclusion was the AB version is a totally different animal to standard 104 and put simply if you want more low end you keep the 104 but if you want clean, detailed sound you fit the AB crossovers but a little of the low end is sacrificed as a result which I can cope with because when Bruce Springsteen sings "streets of philadelphia" it's like his voice is inside your head
Thanks for the good review! I enjoyed it. Loving Hi--Fi here in Michigan, USA!
Thanks Jon cheers from London K
I second that sentiment, and I'm also in Michigan. 40+ year HiFi nut here.
Good review .
Passionate as always Kelvin.
It is addictive I am just the same 40 yrs listening buying and selling audio.
Still looking for something.....
The Sansui had excessive negative feedback as a result of the '70s spec race, and as a result had TIM. Something akin to putting an Aphex Exciter into the chain. I've heard these KEFs with Levinson amplification and they were super complete compared to Maggies or Quads in the same room. The panels were a bit more transparent but the KEFs didn't have anything missing and everything felt of one piece.
instablaster
I truly like your reviews! You are genuine, sincere, earth-borne. I sometimes get a feeling as if we chatted over a pint of beer about stereo, vintage stuff etc...very friendly approach really. So rare compared to artificial, lofty and mannerred modern youtubers dealing with hifi.
Earth borne ... wtf ? DOWN TO EARTH !!!
Hi Kelvin, loving the channel and its emphasis on vintage gear. Rolls back the years to when hifi was a mass market mainstream thing. I remember lusting after such gear as a young man without having the wherewithal or even the space to accommodate it. By the time circumstances change, priorities also change, that’s life I suppose.
Taking on comments both here and in some of your previous videos, might you consider a project to bring a piece of classic kit back from the brink? Something destined for the scrap heap, brought back to life by rewiring, new crossovers, whatever. Could make for a great video.
Yeah interesting idea thanks K
One of my all time favourite vintage British speakers. I borrowed pair for a while to make a few mods and parts upgrades... and I had the opportunity to buy them but didn't because if their size. It's a decision I now regret. Still one of the most holographic speakers I've heard.
Absolute Peach of a pair of speakers. The sound is all encompassing :)
If you haven't already i would (at least) suggest replacing the gaskets and recapping the crossovers. in this case the electrolytic elcap capacitors should be replaced with the alcap types. This will dramatically improve the sound!
Thanks again for keeping the interest in vintage audio alive!
Hi Vladimir yes thing with the speakers is they aren’t actually mine I did rotate the mid range driver and I believe some re-capping was done that’s what I’ve heard
One interesting thing I’ve just done is change the cables to some old furukawa and that is totally better for the trouble than the QED 25 they came with which I think was making the trouble thin basically
Appreciate your comments cheers Kelvin
@@stereoreviewx The 105 does show what you are feeding it with- you hear differences in source/cable pretty easily.
I heard a pair of 105.4 speakers 25+ years ago and I can still remember how good they sounded.
Hello
Good review of these fabulous speakers. You are right in everything you say although there are some things to point out.
I have known these speakers since I was a child and experience has shown that they are voracious with power and capable of producing sublime sound if the source, amplification and wiring are of a high standard, as these speakers are.
It is true that the T52 tweeter is not the most transparent in the world, but the main weakness of these speakers are the components of the filters and the internal wiring.
With good polypropylene capacitors, air coils, and better wiring and connectors, the sound becomes more vivid and detailed, more dynamic and controlled, more incisive and at the same time smoother.
High-quality amplification and more than 200 watts make these speakers perform at their best. Indeed, McIntosh suits the Kef 105 very well, and the sound can be gigantic and with a thousand details and colors
One of the best bang for buck amps we found to work exceptionally well with these speakers was the NAD Silverline series. S200 amp & S100 preamp can be found quite cheap these days although somewhat rare. Simple input caps upgrade and there is even more resolution and dynamic. NAD Silverline 200W not only open 105 right up but is a true synergistic compliment!
Yes thanks for your info you’re right with the right amplifier the speakers are pretty much killers
It has a protection circuit, a bridge rectifier and cap circuit that builds up a charge as the power increases, and if it gets too high it triggers a NC relay that cuts down 90% of the power .... leaves only a path through a resistor to the drivers ... to keep the drivers from being damaged. Considering the total price, and the High Wattage monster contemporaneous amps/receivers of the time, it was a good thing to have. Something that would have made a good little stand alone product ... speaker overload protector.
There's a grill also on the midrange....
Bass has non of the defects of a vented box.....not as boomy but goes deeper and faster with the right amplifier...I use a vintage Luxman SQ 507X and the combination works great..... The LED is not lighting up to show distortion but the setting can be chosen to show when an amplifier's output is reached and saturation may become a problem.....( to protect the speakers , especially the tweeters).
The tweeters are NOT harsh sounding but need a warm up time and will let you here the harshness of some digital and some amplifier equipment !
I enjoy these speaker a lot ..............GREAT on life performances and on opera .....etc. You really feel the stage and the room.......WOAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW WHAT A GREAT SPEAKER if given the right musical quality signal !!!!!!!!!!!!
Please get a mic on your collar. Your commercials blast when the come on. Lol.
Very good review. Good comparison on price vs what you get on both speaker. Nice to know the midrange is the same driver.
Hi mate, hope you're well. Happy New Year and all that. The 105's were primarily studio monitors utilised by the BBC for recording live concerts. They were powered by Quad current dumping amplification, something the likes of their 405, but modded by the BBC. This is also why they don't sound over bassy, as they required a neutral monitor for accuracy and most domestic passive speakers have an in-built "lift" at around 60 Hz or so, to padd out the lower bass.
KEF also built a huge monitoring system for the BBC, known as The KM-1. A true Goliath of a speaker incorporating 4 of the 12 inch bass units, 1 in each corner of the front of the enclosure, along with 2 B 110 mids and a T 27 tweeter arranged vertically down the middle of the box. They had beautiful wood veneers and optional, open frame metal stands, or could be mounted either on wall or in wall. They're active with the amplification built into their fronts, courtes, (again), of Quad current dumping technology.
These things are unicorns! I only ever saw one pair come up for sale on eBay and I believe that they went for over £12,000 for the pair.
Still have my Kef 104/2's and would love to buy the 107's one day
Just came across this review of the 105's. I enjoyed it and your "style" of the reviews you do. I heard a pair of these speakers at a local high-end dealer here in Tucson, AZ in 1980. I was very impressed and remember they had a little clipping LED, but they were out of my college student budget. 40 years later I decided that I could now afford a pair of used ones and did not remember a model #, but just remembered they were KEFs, so started searching Craigslist, and ended up getting a pair of the 107's, which I love. Maybe you will get a chance to review a pair of those one day....
Absolutely awesome speaker. after being upgraded, the only things that come close are the imf tls80s, kef 105.2 and cambridge r50 upgraded with wilmslow audio crossovers.
Yes I’ve always fancied the IMF monitors
I transmission line plus my two favourite tweeters Celestion and coles supertweeter I think I’m right in saying that
Cheers K
Many years ago I sold mine in a pinch before a move. I recall I had upgraded the crossovers. Fed them with upgraded VTL 120 tube mono blocks. They were, to me a pair I could have lived with until the end.
I like your reviews. But maybe you could add some sound tests because we, vintage lovers, would like to hear how this hardware sounds
they are truly epic speakers,i have owned many,maybe hundreds of speakers,i bought one time the top speakers,mids and tweeters from a second hand store in netherlands,the tweeter is not the famous T27,but i forget a bit t34 i think,much smoother than t27 in other ref.kefs,the top set not connected to the crossover is as good as ls3/5a bbc monitors,they were my speakers on my boat,by themselves they rock,plenty of bass too,this is one speaker set i wish i could have owned.Retro/old school rules,its probably not old caps but could be,but the t34,if memory serves me right is smoother.you get used to it.
a sense of realism and volume is possibly associated with phase linearity.
phase linearity is achieved by shifting the speakers relative to each other. Technics did this with the sb-7000 and others.
And it is not difficult to build a phase-linear acoustic system on your own from improvised means, or on the basis of an existing three-way system. Simply by moving the speakers with the correct wavelength calculation and microphone measurements.
They say it gives fantastic results.
We have some modified 105.2`s. Yeah those T52 tweeters can be a bit meh. Got ours recoiled by a professional which made a nice improvement.
Getting rid of the unnecessary circuitry in the Xover. Replacing all parts hard wired to a new board and specifically changing the caps to Calrity-Cap ESA with small value Mundorf Supreme Silver Gold in oil bypass on the tweeter caps did wonders to improve overall sound. Especially the top end. T52 tweeters are actually pretty good when given a chance.
The addition of a nice ribbon super tweeter from Tonian Labs, Aperion or Townshend etc take the 105 to another level again. Add in a couple small Kef KC62 subs.... the 105`s become very hard to beat indeed!.
Nice work thanks for the info yeah with a good three-way you can always tweak it into something great because the building blocks are there
K
Is it possible that old capacitors on the high end is taking off the top?
Yes out from hes descriptions its very clear that capasitors is no longer good.
They dry out as they age and if replace them ( and with an even better type )
then the warm living sound will be back .
I have heard them some years ago with all crossover components replaced ( modified too )
and they sound quite good .
It is possible but I just replaced the tweeter with a Planar Tweeter (www.parts-express.com/GRS-PT2522-4-3-1-2-Planar-Tweeter-4-Ohm-272-122?gclid=CjwKCAiA9vOABhBfEiwATCi7GEfiHfL5i4pjgJ2hUa6fPmSBF1HSGwRV3dXfoEqOELgFBezHcDsCKxoCB2MQAvD_BwE). This helped the top end. I have no plans or desire to yank out the crossover at this time.
@@joeygsaudiochannel3972 Good Choice : )
@@joeygsaudiochannel3972 The original T52 tweeter was very very good. It is among the flattest response tweeters ever made.
Hey Kelvin, what do you think of the unusually shaped Kef Q1 speakers, as I'm thinking of trying them out with my brand spanking new Marantz setup? Cheers, mate!
I had a pair of those big Kefs ... they were revolutionary at the time .. mine had a small rotary selector switch which adjusted the power levels going into it .. and the led light showing overload. Inside the cabinet was a special PCB with two largish encapsulated blocks which made specially for Kef which handled all this . Also the B300 bass driver was deliberately mounted in a boom box design to render high efficiency ... but this boomy peak was nulled out by the insertion of some large value capacitors wired in parallel. The speaker does not have any DC path .. everything has a capacitor in its feed circuitry . The highs were disappointing I agree .. they used a later model T25 tweeter I think .. This is why the Quad didn't like them !
We have some modified 105.2`s. Yeah those T52 tweeters can be a bit meh. Got ours recoiled by a professional which made a nice improvement.
Getting rid of the unnecessary circuitry in the Xover. Replacing all parts hard wired to a new board and specifically changing the caps to Calrity-Cap ESA with small value Mundorf Supreme Silver Gold in oil bypass on the tweeter caps did wonders to improve overall sound. Especially the top end. T52 tweeters are actually pretty good when given a chance.
The addition of a nice ribbon super tweeter from Tonian Labs, Aperion or Townshend etc take the 105 to another level again. Add in a couple small Kef KC62 subs.... the 105`s become very hard to beat indeed!.
@@sarahX..
I agree with you !!
The light mechanism is used for two things: 1.to inform you your amplifier is clipping, these speakers are not that efficient and weak amplifiers can easily run out of power, when amplifier is clipping it can damage the speaker as it actually injecting DC to the speaker and this is an energy that cannot be translated to movement. 2. when light is forced ON it is used to aim the Mid/High section accurately toward the listener.
Kelvin, I really like your reviews and the way you describe how things sound. I appreciate the same things you like in music and I am sure you have listened to many more audio devices than I have. I just want to share what I have noticed and learned by testing different stuff. I have several modern KEF speakers, so I understand your comment about the treble seeming a little harsh. KEF uses an anechoic chamber to test their speakers for the best sound, but rooms influences the sound. If you can put your face right up to a speaker and it sound brilliant, yet sounds a bit harsh depending where you are sitting, then the problem comes from your room. KEF speakers are very detailed and do sound very sweet if you get them set up right. More laid back speaker are easier, but they sound flat once you have listened to a set of KEFs tweaked just right. Detailed speakers are finicky, but if you figure out how they sound best, the reward of detail and smoothness is well worth the effort. I use port plugs in all of my speakers and my KEF R 900s have extremely tight and and accurate bass on my JC1 mono blocks. It's tube like sound with the bass control of an authoritarian dictator. I think Kef speakers sound best in a well damped room, to avoid nasty reflected sound that smears the real sound they produce. Detailed speakers tend to have more problems with comb filtering (basically time smearing from reflected sounds). The cleaner the signal that goes into KEF speakers, the more forgiving they will sound in harder rooms.
I'm just starting to play around with bass traps and diffusers and they definitely work for better sound. I am very sensitive to listening fatigue, so I have to get things right. I want to play music at a volume level where I can feel the music. Not super loud, but I can't be bother to listen at background music levels either.
Thanks for your feedback
I mean one thing I think you can say is true is the use of computers nowadays you know when I look at old speakers and I know the drivers say the tweeters I just know which ones are gonna sound good because that tweet sounds a certain way and a crossover won’t change it enormously
What I’m saying is the computer doesn’t really reveals all about the sound quality of a driver it won’t come out on the reading
@@stereoreviewx Kelvin, Kef was the first to use computers in the late 60s or early 70s (I'm pretty sure it was the 60s) and I agree the final tuning needs to be done by ear. This is why Kef was ahead of the game back then (many companies were using their drivers for a reason). Engineering a great sounding speaker is very complex and time consuming and using trial and error from the start will eat up the engineering budget long before the guessing game will result in a winner.
There are certain facts and common knowledge that makes a speaker sound great (even several decades ago) and computer analysis can greatly narrow down a good starting point. Many modern day speaker companies try to make a speaker to sound the best to what most people ($$$) have to drive the speakers. Kef has always been about achieving the best sound and letting the people figure out that they need to be realistic in their choices of what gear will be feeding the signal into their rather expensive KEF speakers. No quality detailed speakers will sound good on ragged amps, pre amps, DACS, because speakers can only play what they are given. This is why so many speakers are tuned to be "warm" (not offensive, but lack the magic, thus boring). Kef switched to aluminum drivers because they are much better than paper drivers (in bass, mids and highs) and at a time when they had the technology to do it right. I have heard aluminum drivers from piss ant companies in the 90s and they were very harsh because they didn't have a clue what they were doing. An ideal driver is stiff and light and paper is only light. Kefs drivers are only 4 microns thick, which is lighter than thick paper and much lighter than coated paper and MUCH stiffer. An ideal driver will move pistonically ( in and out without wobbling). Paper is really bad at wobbling and it causes a lot of distortion (see slow motion videos of paper subwoofers on UA-cam) and you will see what I mean.
I have a pair of KEF R900s, which I would say is the new equivalent of your 105's. I wouldn't be surprised if your 105's could play clean at 300 watts. I fed about 325-350 watts into my R900s and they stayed clean to that point before starting to break up. 115db is insanely loud. I have never heard a vintage 12" paper woofer come close to competing to Kef's modern day twin 8" aluminum woofers. Two (per speaker) 8" drivers have almost the surface area as one 12". The smaller drivers are faster and more agile and aluminum woofers (at least Kefs design) don't need a long excursion to punch out deep and tight, thunderous bass. Paper rings on compared to aluminum. I like bass, but I can't tolerate it when it rings on and muddies the vocals.
Sorry for another of my long tangents, but you said, "what has changed in 40 years" and I am attempting to demonstrate to you what has changed and that it is certainly better. But, not across the board. Mainly in the upper end gear. If I have one gripe about Kef, it is how they label their 4 ohm speakers as 8 ohms. The LS50s are definitely 4 ohms. I'm pretty sure my KEF R900s are 4 ohms too. At least Kef is labeling their new revision of the R series at 4 ohms. There is no real strict standard, but typically if a speaker dips down below 8 ohms for more than 8% of the frequency range, than they are considered 4 ohms. When I look at the graph of the LS50s, it is clear that they dip well below 8 ohms for much more that 8%.
All of my favorite speakers just happen to be 4 ohms. It's probably due to the fact that these speakers weren't compromised by tuning the crossover to be easier to drive, at the cost of where they naturally sounded best. Everything in audio is a compromise and I like how Kef seems to focus on sound quality, rather than messing it up just so they can cater to a larger market share ($$$$$).
Thank you for all of the lovely reviews!
My main dilemma is, how could this KEF 105 co-op comparatively with the Sansui Eight Deluxe you have, both being kind of TOTL of their production lines.
Matching the Au-317 with this 105 is just a bit unrealistic, like on the opposite way paring the Sansui 8 with a 2 way Heybrook HB1 which is kind of waste.
I have a Sansui Eight amp and I'm having hard time finding a suitable speaker for it, being only 60 Watt.
I don't think the only way to go is separates!
Definetly it is much easier to buy a good enough speaker to get the whole potential out of an au-317 than to get the potential out of an Sansui Eight without loosing some of the speaker potential.
I hope you catch exactly what I mean!
Should I look for a KEF 105 to complet my halfway built up excelent thousand pound+ vintage system?
There is no issues with the HF freq levels of these speakers. I have seen different pairs in different condition. So you might have got a pair not in the right condition.
Recap the crossover using good capacitors, service the HF drivers and setup them properly paired with a good amplifier which is able to drive them propelry. Your opinion on them will change.
Can you tell me what amp or amps you’ve put them with thanks K
Pair of these on eBay right now (1 day to go at time of writing) and at £1150. If you scored yours for £500 or less - righteous result 'ol son ;)
Hi Calvin i baught second hand a pair of 105.2s two years ago. As i already have two other pairs of Kef 105.2s so that i could use the for my imersive dedicated home theater system. I am an avid audiophile and re constructed the cabs using 2.5mm HDF and heavy bracing and truss rods with internal wall damping calculating and compensating for Theile Small parameters o keep my Q factors with respects to the late Raymond Coles reaserch. All drivers de coupled profecionally veneered to a ery high standard. Both my main L/R are also hydraulically de coupled from the foundations or floor. As if that is not enough both mains are being drived by DC powered active crossovers and DC powered EQ with high powered threechanel power amplification per cabinet with three times the power handling of each driver. I also made a dedicated Center chanel for this too to keep integrity of the home theater front sound stage. I was inspired to do this as i heared the active Meridians at an exebition in the UK in the late 70s 80s. This also dose away with internal resonances pounding the passive original x-overs and makes the amps work at the correct audio bandwidth. I have gone heavy with Diaphramatic accoustic absorsion, diffusers, and treatment in the room. The project is still in progress i am possitioning for best imaging possitions for sound stage and depth for two chanel opperation so i can assertain final size of my front speaker raiser for its final dimensions. Now for the sound hi hear you say! well AT THIS STAGE I AM AT you sit and listen to hi resolution audio tracks and lights are OFF you will feel so frightened from the realism of the presentation of the the audio production, they are all in the room as the light is off your visual sesce is removed from brain computation and you hear so much more. At this level one you get here the system is so revealing that one becomes aware of studio production qualities and audio ability productions. One at this level has to STOP and respect am i enjoying and listening to the music or listening to the system, never get carried away the journey is Valhala amazing. This is as you said Calvin its a good old pair of BBC recognised loudspeakers and one can go to town on them the results are worth it and by the way i purchased my final pair from a friend of mine hear in Cyprus called Calvin God bless you and the fantastic work you do on your chanel informing us all 🙏🏻
Thanks so much great info K
Thanks for the review! Love your channel. What kind of power amp would you recommend for these? Budget around £1k.
Hi Kelvin, love your reviews. Just wondering whether you tried your Sugden A48 with these? I’m thinking about buying a pair and I have an A48. Do you think the A48s got what these need? Cheers Sean
This is hard to say I think in the end I’d say not a good match because you need something the proactively put some magic in the top end.
I could also be wrong
CheersK
Kef 105s cost $2000 pr in Canada in 1978. Reduce the price by about 35 or 40% and convert to English pounds, add VAT... this is close to what they cost in England in the late 70s. Not a bad price actually especially as there were more expensive British offerings that performed no better or not even as well... eg Linn Isobaric, IMF RSPM, Meridian M1, B&W 801.
BTW... regarding the upper treble lacking air. Remove the mesh screen over the tweeter and the and notice how the top octave and the entire treble improves dramatically. That protective screen mutes the treble at various frequencies and the speaker sounds more immediate and extended without the grills. The Kef 105 measures flat (or used to when it was new) to 18 khz, and I do mean flat as per measurements taken in Canada's gov't funded professional anechoic facilities in Ottawa. One of the flatest measuring speakers ever produced at any time.
Great review, I’d love to hear your opinion on a set of Beovox ms150.2 and other similar sized speakers such as these!
I think there should be a large piece of foam sitting on top of the bass units. These speakers were developed by Kef, using CAD, pulses and fast fourier transforms.
Hi kelvin, love the 105’s , I have a pair of 104ab and they are magnificent.
I also have a pair Epos ES11 which I think you should try , I was blown away by these , they sound bigger than they are .
Many thanks
Dez
Thanks Des really wanna get my hands on some EPOS speakers now
When a power amplifier is driven to clipping it produces distortion that contains a lot of power in the high frequencies that will easily damage your tweeters. For this reason it's always better to use a high power amplifier than a low power when driving 'speakers that have a high input power rating.
Hi, you might want to try those with a Cyrus II / PSX or better Cyrus 3i / PSX with a turntable and some free jazz from the ART ENSEMBLE OF CHICAGO which has unlimited sound signals.
The Mission Cyrus amps were known for EXPLOSIVE dynamics.
Hi i love your approach and appreciate a lot your videos. A friend of mine has a pair of these Kef. What i wonder about is the size of those domes .... are they T52 ? i really do not know how low they are cut ... maybe a lot low. Anyway i would have used some smaller 1-1.5" very high quality tweeters instead. From what i understand they were used as monitors for classical music recordings ? thanks a lot and kindest regards, gino
Yes interesting I think they would really kill with classical about the tweeter it won’t go down very low because you have a mid range driver but what the frequency is I don’t know ultimately I don’t think it’s a good tweeter
@@stereoreviewx Hi thanks a lot for the very kind and valuable advice. If i am not wrong it must be a KEF mod. T52 with a 52 mm voice coil ? More the size of a midrange dome than a normal 1" tweeter.
I am sure that replacing the original with a 1" very decent dome (checking the x-over) would open up nicely the freq above 10k
Such big tweeter can allow to lower the transition frequency with the midrange. Maybe they had a very good reason to select it.
Anyway in the 105.4 version they changed the tweeter
i.pinimg.com/originals/94/b7/0a/94b70adec82fd2bc92b9123021d62f6c.jpg
All the rest is just fine. The soundstage rendition with the right recordings must be mindblowing. I live in a hole if not i would go out and seek for one pair. I love the concept a lot. Thanks again and kind regards, gino
I will summarize it this way: The engineering is 1st class, the downside is the quality of All the drivers, modern drivers are so much better. If you use the same topology and layout and redesign or maintain similar x-over philosophy you will get a totally different sound.
I agree with you I also like to DIY, or purchase and accumulate good value equipment. DOn't like to pay to much.
For me, your review is a little too long. Tha'ts me.
Drive them with high powered American amp, eg 250W/C you will huge sound and soundstage no doubt.
All in all good review esp. the sound assessment, 40 yrs of experience in HiFi equipment shows that. you know what you are talking about.
Hi Kelvin. What would you prefer B&W 801 80 or KEF 105?
801 series 2, every day. Phenomenal neutrality and linearity(+/- 1.5dB). Virtually unlimited power handling, and will blows the wall down, if you your amp has enough balls. When music is playing, they completely disappear.
Sometimes it’s difficult to follow, what song did you refer, wake up and make larve and jury?!
Thanks again for the very informative and detailed description of these speakers You make the hobby a lot more interesting!
BTW Kelvin,do you sometines sell some of your equipment?
Well all I can say is I don’t but I should also just to know the Caffe 105 are not mine
K
Nice Video, big house and amp required for these I have neither , but I love the look
I would have to disagree on the big house comment- I have an apartment (admittedly with decent-sized rooms) and 105s. They work well at lower volumes and the sealed box design means much less chance of booming bass in small rooms, as long as you keep the volume appropriate to room size. My room is 20x14x10, but I have heard 105s in a room that was probably 13x13x8 and they sounded very good- no, you can't open the throttle much to hear them roar, but they are in fact one f the most versatile speakers i know of.
Think you are right about the big amp though!
@@rohan_of_arc9895 Thanks, I started to have a look at these again today and kinda got tempted in a way, these would be quite a statement piece in any room, though mine is 21 feet by 13 and I would have 2 spare corners at the 13 feet width end. They would pretty much be up against the wall though. I do love the look and have since seen they do come with covers which would help with my granddaughter about, but with still low end amps at the moment and see that £400 or £500 would be rather optimistic they are a little out of my price range at present time, as still experimenting and working way up the chain.
@@MichaelYates They are definitely worth getting hold of...they were cheaper a few years ago but to be honest considering what the 105 does and the excellent low+end extension I actually thought they were too cheap for what they were. People worship things like the Spendor BC1 and the LS3/5a (both excellent of course) but a 105 has some abilities way beyond those...yet until recently sold for less.
Your room will take them easily..
I have mine on the long wall, about 7ft apart, listening position is mid-field at about 7-8 feet away. With the right gear it can be a heavenly experience.
@@rohan_of_arc9895 Thanks, I will keep an eye out for these I think, will fit in very nicely and a van for pick up is no problem. I am experimenting at the moment and working my way up the ranks, so one day soon maybe. Thanks again
@@MichaelYates You won't need a van mate, the head sections come off, and they will fit in a decent-sized car easily.
Thanks for a great review. I sure your love for vintage equipment. Two quick questions: Do you think that the upper, front corners of the boxes can cause significant diffraction that might be mitigated by sound absorbing material? And, am I correct in that a sealed box enclosure offers "resistance" as the cone goes both in and out? Thanks again!
A sealed box is also called acoustic suspension
Imagine you are in a sealed box when you try to get out you have to pull Air in to leave
I think there’s too much spoken about edges of speaker cabinets it’s more marketing talk I’d say
CheersK
love your reviews keep up the good work , i want to upgrade my bowers and wilk 686s2 to a nice pair of vintage speakers have you got any recomendations .? my 686 s2 are on the wall in the corners of my room on wall brackets thanks in advance
You should try some big LEAK 2075's with 15" sandwich bass. I have a pair and they are brilliant and are very easy (efficient) to drive even with lower powered tube amps but do benefit from real power. A friend of mine had those big KEF's but now has a pair of the 2075's and much prefers them as they can cope with any type of music.
I was initially looking out for the 104/2 but when a pair of the 105.1 came up locally I was hesitant as they were more than I was going to pay, the 104/2 generally around 8 - 1,000.00 where I live in Western Canada but decided to purchase the 105s partly due to rarity as well as less problematic over time than the 104/2 when dealing with age related issues, especially the drivers. I do prefer that there is no ferrofluid cooling. Of course, after I had the 105.1 two nice pairs of 104/2 came up but I think I made the right decision.
They were actually being sold by someone I knew, just never realized he owned them. As you mentioned about pricing these were almost 1,500.00, but well looked after, and had been checked over by a speaker specialist before being offered for sale. An interesting tidbit is that apparently when the Seller originally bought them in 1978 here in Vancouver the salesman mentioned that Randy Bachman of the BTO had brought them in on consignment, never confirmed though he tried at the time. I wonder if he would remember after all these years? I have been thinking of getting in touch just to find out.
Anyway, I currently use a BGW GTB power amplifier rated at a conservative 300 W into 8 ohms and they appear to like it, also tried an Acurus A 250 as well as Myryad MP 240, all more than adequate but the BGW seems to give the extra degree of dynamics and control required. I should give a Vincent SV 236 MK a listen as well, though " only " 150 W / ch. into 8 ohms. As it is a hybrid integrated ( using early '60's Tungsram 12AX7 in the pre amp section ) it might give the 105s more presence.
Would have loved to find a pair for under 1,000.00,never mind 500 or so but out here they are in demand and go for decent prices. Two other pairs recently went for 1,400.00 and 1,200.00 respectively. Not usually any for sale on any given day. I do believe that British audio was very popular here back then so there are more examples around than one might normally find. They are a great listen, no doubt about it and I will most likely upgrade the wiring as well as the capacitors, buying the original spec versions from Falcon Acoustics.
For those that may not be aware, the area on top of the bass cabinet originally had a layer of acoustic foam to prevent any reflections of sound waves from the mid / tweeter modules. Most still show the glue residue around the edges. I will be getting something appropriate myself in the near future. Also, the 105.1 was designed to be listened to with the covers installed, it also prevented unwanted sound reflections. I admit they look more impressive with that cover removed exposing the drivers but one has to suppose that the Kef engineers knew what they were doing.
Thanks for the info at first I put the speakers on low power amplifiers 3050 W and they didn’t impress me at all you’ve got to have good power for these it’s obvious really just look at them they can be incredible
Many moons back, I removed the flimsy wobbly castors, mounted the speakers on hard wood encased semi-coned metal bolts. To my ears, the all round enhancements to the imaging and sound were profound.
Brilliant review. Very informative.
You might try any of the Crown Drive Core 2 amplifiers. Even the bottom of the range 1002 delivers lots of power. In the US they sell new for anywhere from $330 to the most powerful model 2502 at $650. Here you can get a 30 day trial where you can get a refund if you don't like them. Read some of the reviews. They will usually say they are excellent and a remarkable value. They are intended for professional use but many audiophiles are very happy with them.
A company named RAM based in Norwich made a similar model, called the 400. I think they used the B139 bass driver. Do you know anything about this model?
Well not that exact model but the company RAM I remember in the 70s mostly using KEF drivers
And I really like the B139 Oval bass driver can be an absolute joy
Do you think adjusting the tilt of the speakers would help the high end? Thanks again for another "classic" review!
Oh yeah I played around with those ended up tilted up more than anything thanks K
Would love to have heard them too, don’t forget that the 105 was superseded by the 105.2 which has x2 woofers & I was so hoping that you would mention that the LS3/5a’s contained the legendary KEF T27 tweeter & the KEF B110 speaker which were designed by KEF Co Founder Malcolm Jones which are very desirable by Audiophiles, it’s ironic but when the BBC decided to to have a clear out they were selling these speakers for £28 to BBC staff who wanted them, All the LS3/5a’s Have KEF drivers & a BBC spec crossover, so KEF decided in 1979 to 1986 well why don’t we bring our own version of the LS3/5a speaker to the market with a KEF designed crossover the Reference 101 rated at 8ohms & 100 Watts I’ve heard both side by side & they sound almost identical!!
Interesting stuff thanks mate
Hey mate, great video.
Very good review , detailed and good described ! I love this idea with adjustable mid-high section . More than 10 years ago I`ve built big speakers with same idea . How can I send you pictures to listen your ideas regarding my project ?
Keep up the good work.
Liked and Subscribed
Consequently the best might be using the KEF 105s bass cabinets as stands/subwoofers for the LS 3/5. I would recommend a crossover frequency of about 100 Hz and the use of a DSP based frequency devider, some proper transistor amp for the subs and a sweet valve amp for the LS 3/5s.
Yes that sounds good it may never happen but I like the sound of it
Kelvin - KEF have a great habit of using ferrite core Inductors and electrolytic caps. Alcaps for decades. That tweeter behaviour I would associate with 40 yr old caps. Replace them!
Could you review the aiwa 22 system in the near distant PHUTURE 👍👍👍
Excellent Video. I have the "little Brother" 105/3's. 2 pairs of those and a pair of 104/2's but one the Bextrene drivers has a bad voice coil. Hoping I can get the Chinese knock off of that Driver from Sound Artist/China HiFi. I also replaced the Factory soft domes with Planar Tweeters. I also felt the Treble Response was a bit subdued. Purists be Damned.
Great review. Any chance of reviewing wither 104/2's or 105/3's in the future ?
104/2 midrange replacement is not that easy as it's part of the cabinet
@@-x21- Yep. So I've been told :-(
I remember back in the day, this linear phase, time alignment concept was promoted as cutting edge. All the major manufacturers, were trying to convince you it was the best thing since sliced bread, definitely the way to go. I wonder what Kef would say today, probably "No comment!"
Yes Fay is aligned and uni queue quite different concepts
Speaker design is all about compromises - they might be time aligned in the crossovers
KEF 105 look great and i bet sound great
Interesting perspectives!
These speakers REALLY need good stuff connected to them if you want to know what they are capable of. For me, I searched all my life for the perfect speaker. Then I found these. And in an instant I knew the search was over. Well, at least it changed... After getting a good pair of 105´s, I soon realized that the search now is about getting the perfect amp, DAC....and so on.
They are very analytical. They need power. And I REALLY mean proper stuff now. My 105´s are powered by a Pioneer SX-1250 (2x175wpc monster) and I play mostly hi-res stuff through a Harmony Design D-90 DAC. If you do at least what I did, you will have no doubt that the 105´s are proper high-end, because that´s what they are.
One warning to all vintage lovers. The 105´s will find any sign of weakness in your amp and kill it. Both my SX-1250 and the Pioneer M-90 I bought as a temporary replacement is now dead. So first you need a proper "holy grail"-amp, and then it has to be in perfect condition too. And forget cheap CD-players and built-in sound cards. I think you get the point. You cannot use "ordinary stuff" on these.
Also, don´t forget that they are soon to be 50yo. They are complex speakers and the tweeters can go bad. Some people talk about the woofers going bad but I think that´s wrong. They can suffer from woofer sag. Just turn the woofers around and you are good for another 40 years.
Good information my friend, I think I agree completely
Great reviews keep them coming... Please!
have you ever reviewed the Kef C80s?
Are you linekers"uncle" ?
When I was buying my first hifi in about 1980 I saw a pair of these in a local hifi shop. Being an awestruck teenager I tried out a pair of Kef Codas - (maybe Kef Coda II) - same company, must be great eh?. They sounded horrible. I walked out of the shop with a Nad 3020 and a pair of Mission 700s. £200 well spent. I wish I still had them.
Funny thing with Kath is everything went wrong in the 80s it’s like they stopped trying really
Looks like B&W 801 80 series. Not sure which one comes first
PROPPER LOVES THIS CHANNEL and KELVIN MAKES IT ( Obviously 🙄) if this channel was on the custard and jelly =Telly , I would have been PROPPER ON IT , Like I am now .. Kelvin keep on keeping on … LONDON BERMONDSEY CALLING 👍
I want BIGGER speakers . Damn those who speak of less . I want Marshall towers . Eviction notices on my front door'' Speakers'' . Technics Sb-2560 Speakers .
I hope you got better neighbours than me Kelvin! :-)
have you ever rated kef cadenza. How good or bad are they?
Yes the cadenza I would say is a bit softer in the base the big bass driver you see is a passive radiator
I like the concerto myself
Great review! Just subscribed.
Hi Kelvin, thanks for reviewing these fantastic old speakers. In 1981, I visited a friend's house where his dad had a pair. He switched on a Revox B77 reel to reel tape deck and played a female jazz singer. I was floored by the quality of the sound! It was as if she was standing in front of me. I've never forgotten it and I've been chasing that sound ever since.
That B77 must have had a lot to do with it.
Master Ji , I'm sure it did! Having said that, sitting listening to Diana Krall this evening on my modified Musical Fidelity system, with Monitor Audio GR20s, I'm pretty happy with my progress on my journey.
Just found your channel, I love how you review gear!
Have you covered transmission line speakers before?
Keep up the fantastic reviews!
You have some transmission lines speakers which I will do soon.K
@@stereoreviewx
Great to hear.
My father had a set of TDL Studio 4's (think that's the right model) in the 90's which sounded sublime.
The low end was incredible, it was felt as well as heard.
:)
Great guy Kelvin. Respect his knowledge and love for hi-fi. Could anybody advice me. I've got a google chrome cast gadget. Basically it is an external dac with a wi-fi facility. So I can play internet content through my old cyrus one amp. I also have an old Mission Dac 5 (I think bitstream). I was curious to try to Google gadget through the external mission dac. However the Google dac only has a 3.5mm optical output and the mission Dac 5 only has digital co-ax input. Can you get a converter? So the 3.5mm optical output would allow me to plug it into the back of the Mission Dac. Just thinking the mission dac might sound better or different (or even worse).
I had an old Marantz cd50se that I used the co-ax on into the back of the mission dac5. Then I changed for a laugh, to the output of a cheapish LG DVD player. There was quite a big improvement. I was very surprised. Are transports basically all the same. You can use a reasonable old CD player and it will sound as good as some expensive transport only?
Hope somebody can advice me. Thanks hi-fi community.
Hi, if i want to listen to music from youtube/internet, what i do is connect laptop to my
TV via HDMI cable, then RCA audio out from TV into amp, highly dynamic result
from this! But i understand this may not be suitable for your needs, but have never
heard of anyone else doing this, but compared to what ive heard at someone else's place,
this method sounds GREAT! And it's with stuff you probably already have.
So what amp set up would drive these well?
Yes Brian that is a properly good question in my minds eye
I don’t know what make but 150 W power amp and definitely a valve preamp to magic up the top end
Cheers K
You dont need big powerful amps! They are really amazing speakers, I have run them on musical fidelity pre 3 and a pair of typhoon power amps living in the sticks with no neighbor's and a huge room I can let them Rip! Never needed to get past 6 - 7 on the dial ... also run them on musical fidelity p172 pre amp which has 2 outputs into 2 p170 power amps and they are even more solid ! You cannot blow them up ! Am lucky I have the kef 104.2s also bi wired so can mix and match the system around!
Excellent... Thanks!!
Your description suggests recapping is needed.
Yes kelvin .. thanks for sharing x
I have these speakers, they are up there with some of the best and I have no intention of ever selling. They sound superb with all music genres, however, for classical music , they are the most natural sounding I have heard. They recreate the full ensemble of an orchestra better than any other loudspeakers I've owned. Those T33 tweeters are excellent, but they dry out over time and the ferrofluid needs replacing. That might explain why you lost a little of the top end. I gave my tweeters the treatment, and also bypassed the protection circuity components in the cross-over. Those relay contacts do nothing for sound, especially after 40 years of mother nature.
Thanks for the info
K
@@stereoreviewx Sorry dude, it was so long ago when I replaced the ferrofluid, I forgot it was the T33 of my 107s that I had the problem with reduced HF. I have the 105/2s, yours are Mk 1s right? That means you have the T52, which does not use ferrofluid. I acquired a number of old Kef designs when I was younger, and building my own Kef/Bailey transmission line, with age it's easy to forget all the stuff I was doing back then. So, if your Mk 1s have the protection circuitry switch on the back, those relay contacts on the crossover board could be throttling the high end if they are dirty. Few other quality loudspeakers used relays on the crossover, so I felt safe bypassing them, and the T52s on my 105s have been playing perfectly ever since.
@@mikw1809 thanks My friend forgetting back to me like that the funny thing is I know the T 52 is in the 105 s isn’t ferrofluid but it kind of sounds like it is messed up in that way .
Cheers K
I have repaired this model 25 years back and I found the sound very good from 27 hz to 8 khz but very disappointing from 10 khz to 14 khz which is the air in the music, yes I can hear to 13 khz yet.
People that can't hear over 11 khz do not qualify to agree of what I'm saying because you need to hear to 13 khz in order to make an opinion of a tweeter performace, for example if you hear to 11 khz you will find out that a SEAS soft dome will sound equal to the best tweeter in the world the Dynaudio Esotar T-330
Yes interesting stuff has the tweaker improved at all and in 40 years
I would say the base drivers have improved and ported enclosures have whether you like it or not would be another subject
Good feedback cheers K
I think you are correct here. A modern supertweeter with sensitivity selection and variable level would be a very interesting addition to the 105. I will do it some day!
I have KEF Reference 103s, the tweeter is the same one used in the 105. My temptation is to add super tweeters to add some air. The 103 is a neutral sounding speaker. Recapping opens the sound up and I suspect that a super tweeter would enhance the sound by adding extra transparency.
@@christopherward5065 Hi, I also owned a pair of 103, great speaker.
those babies soak up the watts, 200 watts per channel is ENTRY-LEVEL with those things, with a rated sensitivity of 79db 1w/meter. they had a bass like granite and were utterly neutral. imaging was well above average, though- very wide and largely independent of listener position, as long as the speakers are placed at least 3 feet from any room boundary. depth was also reproduced very well, they provided a true 3D sound stage.
Yeah rip out the crossover, tri amp it with a hypex module and put 1500 watts into it + dirac and you'll really see what it can do.
That sounds exciting
Please do something about your audio output. I have turn up the volume to be able to hear you, and then BANG - BOOM! the ads kick in and nearly blow my ear drums!
yeah sorry I have fixed on new videos but I can't see how I can retro fix that K
I had 105's in the 70's, nice sound but you needed a lot of power to get them to roll...I had two SAE A500 power amps on them.
yes this is true
do you have understanding neighbours ?
You mean those angry people
I love big speakers
There's a pair on Ebay in the US for $1500
Seems high compared to UK prices anyway
Hi, I knew you were going to say the top end is missing something... Typical kef.
I get over that by using a pair of Dali Concepts on top of my big Neanderthal Cantatas and Concertos. Luckily the Dali specs seem to slot into the Kefs and the pairs of speakers compliment each other.
Also typical British. There is lots better out there.
There are a pair of these currently on eBay for just short of a grand with 6 days to go!! 18 bids so far..
Interesting point these speakers belong to a friend of mine in Kent he gone for £500 locally
K
@@stereoreviewx Superb. Bargain. Loving the channel by the way. Great stuff. Subbed.
Great review like allways
No, it's not tight because the vacuum inside the box pulls it backwards. It's tight because there is less low-end energy and the lack of standing waves on the room and a slower roll-off makes people think the bast is cleaner, hence tighter. Take DSP and some good room treatment and there you go, bass turns tight.
The deeper the speaker go, the "flabby" the bass is perceived, unless we address the issues that fill the bass department.
No he is right the air in the box acts as a suspension which limits the movement and you get tighter bass. His description was good.
Thanks Eddie just what I was thinking
@@eddiebaby22 Yes, there is an excursion limiting factor on the sealed design that gives them a great powering rating, and the fact that you can use a lot of power since the drivers might not get "bottomed out" and damaged. And although the transient response is better (and it will be snappier or punchier), it is not what drives a tight bass again. There are ported designs that can have an outstanding controlled bass. taut bass on a great ported design will be there. And a sealed design regularly would not sound boomy just because they do not go deep at all (regardless they being 12 inch or 15 inch, they regularly get as low as 55/65Hz.) Whilst if you make a sealed subwoofer and DSP EQ the output to flat and then throw it into a room with no regards for adjusting peaks and so on and so forth, It will sound boomy regardless of its sealed design. Boominess in a well-designed speaker is not related to the speaker box, but to standing waves on the room, modes and peaks. Saying that a Focal Kanta has a poor transient response, or than Joseph Audio speakers has a flabby bass because is ported would be a long stretch, that is of course on a good room.
A Good test. Get a ported speaker and make a first order passive high pass filter at around 80/100Hz - The speaker will immediately will be perceived as faster and tighter. Well, partly because is not dealing with the same amount of bass frequency, but also partly because there is less standing energy in your room too.
If you can measure a room, you can easily see bass is regularly a disaster. With some DSP and good treatment bass of a good driver in a well-designed cabinet sounds really good regardless of ported or sealed.
And... I own Sealed servo-assisted Rythmyk Sub. But I've heard excellent fast bass from ported designs too.