Fascinating! I was running my 60 watt at 95-100% no wonder it had an early death! I wish I'd seen your series before I started using it. I get my new machine on Friday and really looking forward to testing it! Your videos are so interesting and well thought out! I just think its a shame youtube are making them reasonably difficult to find compared to silent videos just watching anonymous machines cutting anonymous materials! I've already learnt so much from you and I'm probably only a third through you library. Thank you!
+patrick whelan Hi Patrick The real truth of my story comes out in a 3 part epic ua-cam.com/video/6onXMU08GzQ/v-deo.html This is part 1. Its worth jumping the series to see these. Regards Russ
Great info, i'm slowly working through your videos while deciding which laser to buy to substitute my diode laser machine, 1 fact that is very clear is its not worth burning up the co2 in the laser at 90 or more % when you get just about the same performance between 60 and 70%, maybe even 2 pases at 35 will do the same with a slight hight change and extend laser tube life. Makes you wonder how many people have learned the hard way, not having this valuable information. Thatks for taking the time to do the tests and again even more for making it public.
Hi Derek When you buy a machine from ebay or even Amazon marketplace, It'salmost a certainty that the machine will be fitted with a B grade tube, That will often give rise to this strange characteristic that you have noted where higher % power gives less watts. That is a sure sign of a tube that has failed to make the QA standard at one of the big tube manufacturers and has been picked up for next to nothing to pass onto technically naive Ebay buyers. If it works then who will notice there is a tube problem? You need an ammeter (which they dont fit even though its only $2) and a power meter (usually a big investment) to uncover the scam.. This is not speculation on my part but personal experience coupled with an obvious pattern when you receive as much focused correspondence as I do. An A grade tube has a manufacturers specification, which is often vague or blatantly misleading. There will be a max power which they test the tube at, and this is usually the headline number quoted on sales literature but YOU must not use this or you will quickly kill your tube. They often use the term "agreement power" which is hand written on the tube label at final QA. These A grade tubes will not exhibit the characteristic you have seen so far, but when you run the tube at it's max allowed RUNNING current (which is why it is essential to fit an ammeter) , the power will continue to rise all the way up to 99% Your thought about running the tube at half power and taking two cuts is a very bad idea. Cutting requires power, so when you have established what your max allowable current is, it will be safe to set max power for most cutting (there are a few exceptions) and then adjust the speed to as fast as possible to allow the pieces to drop out IN ONE PASS. The whole principle of cutting is to get the fumes out of the BOTTOM of the cut as quickly as possible with efficient air assist. Two cuts will just paint your product with brown fumes if its wood and white fumes if it's acrylic . This is a lesson you will soon discover. To understand more about the tube and its power characteristic I will point you to these two videos ua-cam.com/video/2F5O-1TH8b0/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/nZuatc3eIgU/v-deo.html Good luck in making a choice...it's a jungle out there and there are lots of junk machines and only a few worth investing in. Best wishes Russ
The last graph is the most interesting. If the maximum output power is produced at a setting of 65% then you may be actually damaging the tube by over driving it with a higher setting for no gain in output. I think the power supplies are adjustable so that the output current can be limited. There was a forum post where someone had made an adjustment so then when they set 100% the current was limited to a safe value. If I can find it I will send you a link to it. Thanks for sharing this. I think I will perform the same test, but I might bite the bullet and buy an actual laser power meter.
+2020tesla The last graph is only another way of looking at the slope results but I must admit it shows the power characteristic in a way that you cannot ignore, LIke you, I shall be very wary of going more than 70%. I shall be interested in your results from a proper power meter. At 15 minutes per test that graph was a labour of love (very boring).
@@SarbarMultimedia This is exactly what is happening you are reaching the peak power rating of the tube given the tubes construction 60%ish is your new tubes maximum mA current
What is the temperature of the tube at the higher power settings? Is the water simply not cooling enough? More water in the reservoir to help with cooling? Maybe a coolant (engine?) to help more?
Hello, I want to thank you for taking the time to make all of these amazingly informative videos for us. I just received my 50W laser last week and already know more or less how to use it thanks to you. I haven't yet watched every one of your videos, but rest assured, I will! Have you considered making a video demonstrating how to use "Cermark" for "etching" metal?
+CenterFireJewelry Hi Congratulations on getting your new machine. One immediate word of warning. DON'T run it at more than 60% until you have seen my next video in a few days time. . I've made mistakes along the way and am still learning myself. I like to fully understand the equipment I'm using hence I push the boundaries but in doing so I have managed to wreck what should have been at least a 1000 hour laser tube, in about 30 hours. I hope others learn from my mistake. The next video is all about this issue. With our 50 watt laser we cannot properly etch metal of any sort. It requires way more power. The Cermark etching you speak of is not really etching., it is an expensive chemical cocktail that reacts with the metal surface almost baking on to leave a nice clean durable mark where the focused beam hits. I have no immediate plans to experiment with this Thanks for you kind comments. It's good to know that others have benefited from the path I have beaten.
+SarbarMultimedia Fortunately I did see that in one of your videos you demonstrated how power drops off past around 60%. Hopefully in running it at a max of 60% power I wont run into any problems down the road. And as far as the Cermark is concerned, I certainly don't blame you. It's a little too expensive to just experiment with. I liked your acrylic removable peg board invention. Did you drill the holes or did you laser cut them? I would think that you drilled them for accuracy. -Seth
+CenterFireJewelry Hi Seth I already had the 8mm acrylic blanks that conveniently were a nice size for my purpose. I used acrylic because it gives you an idea of when you are using excessive power to cut through material, you burn deep unfocused tracks in the baseplate, whereas when the power is just sufficient, the marks are superficial. I did a drawing of the blank and of the hole centres on my CAD system and then did a full scale printout. I stuck the print onto one of the blanks and clamped the other 3 beneath to drill them all together. I do plan to make a further improvement by letting into the top surface of each plate a couple of small neodymium magnets to hold the plates reasonable firmly onto my steel baseplate. I'll do a video shortly about all the changes I have made to my machine. I hate to describe them as improvements, they just deal with inconveniences that annoy me. Russ
+SarbarMultimedia Thanks Russ, I will definitely be doing the same. I just watched your new video! Very informative as usual! Thank you for taking the time to make it. Have you thought about upgrading to an 80W tube in the future?
+CenterFireJewelry Hi Seth That's another $600 plus an extension box (which I would make) because the tube is about another 300mm longer. It would also hit my workshop door. So no I cant imagine an upgrade. This laser is a retirement toy for me and it's also an excuse to ignore my wife's long 'to do' list. Having had a couple of modern 3KW metal cutting lasers, I find this step back to basics and low power an interesting technical challenge especially when the kit comes with a manual that is useless. I have to admit to being quite hooked on the paper cutting,and also engraving on slate,wood and glass,all of which don't require high power. I hope my videos are not giving the wrong impression. The machine is basically fantastic value for money even if it eventually turns out to be a 40watt machine. There are a few tweaks necessary to personalize it to my requirements, but that part of the pleasure for me. Videography is my hobby so it's wii win all the way.
What I have read on the Internet (must be true!) is that the tubes are sealed, there is a catalyst inside that can be used to make co2. When you run at higher powers, the catalyst can't convert or replenish the co2 quick enough so the power drops off. What I haven't found is, is this true! And does it use the catalyst up at a higher power level and wears out the tube or just you can't create enough co2 for a good beam.
+Ed Bond Hi Ed If you watch the power loss test videos you will see exactly that effect. I could run at full power for maybe 30 seconds and then the power would drop off considerably. Turn the tube off for 2 minutes and you could start again at full power (for 30 seconds). While I was waiting for my new tube I did run for a whole day continuously on 15% power (Xmas card session) with no problems. Perhaps that confirms all your research.
Fascinating! I was running my 60 watt at 95-100% no wonder it had an early death! I wish I'd seen your series before I started using it. I get my new machine on Friday and really looking forward to testing it! Your videos are so interesting and well thought out! I just think its a shame youtube are making them reasonably difficult to find compared to silent videos just watching anonymous machines cutting anonymous materials! I've already learnt so much from you and I'm probably only a third through you library. Thank you!
+patrick whelan
Hi Patrick
The real truth of my story comes out in a 3 part epic ua-cam.com/video/6onXMU08GzQ/v-deo.html This is part 1. Its worth jumping the series to see these.
Regards
Russ
Great info, i'm slowly working through your videos while deciding which laser to buy to substitute my diode laser machine, 1 fact that is very clear is its not worth burning up the co2 in the laser at 90 or more % when you get just about the same performance between 60 and 70%, maybe even 2 pases at 35 will do the same with a slight hight change and extend laser tube life. Makes you wonder how many people have learned the hard way, not having this valuable information. Thatks for taking the time to do the tests and again even more for making it public.
Hi Derek
When you buy a machine from ebay or even Amazon marketplace, It'salmost a certainty that the machine will be fitted with a B grade tube, That will often give rise to this strange characteristic that you have noted where higher % power gives less watts. That is a sure sign of a tube that has failed to make the QA standard at one of the big tube manufacturers and has been picked up for next to nothing to pass onto technically naive Ebay buyers. If it works then who will notice there is a tube problem? You need an ammeter (which they dont fit even though its only $2) and a power meter (usually a big investment) to uncover the scam.. This is not speculation on my part but personal experience coupled with an obvious pattern when you receive as much focused correspondence as I do.
An A grade tube has a manufacturers specification, which is often vague or blatantly misleading. There will be a max power which they test the tube at, and this is usually the headline number quoted on sales literature but YOU must not use this or you will quickly kill your tube. They often use the term "agreement power" which is hand written on the tube label at final QA. These A grade tubes will not exhibit the characteristic you have seen so far, but when you run the tube at it's max allowed RUNNING current (which is why it is essential to fit an ammeter) , the power will continue to rise all the way up to 99%
Your thought about running the tube at half power and taking two cuts is a very bad idea. Cutting requires power, so when you have established what your max allowable current is, it will be safe to set max power for most cutting (there are a few exceptions) and then adjust the speed to as fast as possible to allow the pieces to drop out IN ONE PASS. The whole principle of cutting is to get the fumes out of the BOTTOM of the cut as quickly as possible with efficient air assist. Two cuts will just paint your product with brown fumes if its wood and white fumes if it's acrylic . This is a lesson you will soon discover.
To understand more about the tube and its power characteristic I will point you to these two videos
ua-cam.com/video/2F5O-1TH8b0/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/nZuatc3eIgU/v-deo.html
Good luck in making a choice...it's a jungle out there and there are lots of junk machines and only a few worth investing in.
Best wishes
Russ
Brilliant. Thanks for teaching me so much.
The last graph is the most interesting. If the maximum output power is produced at a setting of 65% then you may be actually damaging the tube by over driving it with a higher setting for no gain in output. I think the power supplies are adjustable so that the output current can be limited. There was a forum post where someone had made an adjustment so then when they set 100% the current was limited to a safe value. If I can find it I will send you a link to it.
Thanks for sharing this. I think I will perform the same test, but I might bite the bullet and buy an actual laser power meter.
+2020tesla
The last graph is only another way of looking at the slope results but I must admit it shows the power characteristic in a way that you cannot ignore, LIke you, I shall be very wary of going more than 70%. I shall be interested in your results from a proper power meter. At 15 minutes per test that graph was a labour of love (very boring).
@@SarbarMultimedia This is exactly what is happening you are reaching the peak power rating of the tube given the tubes construction 60%ish is your new tubes maximum mA current
What is the temperature of the tube at the higher power settings? Is the water simply not cooling enough? More water in the reservoir to help with cooling? Maybe a coolant (engine?) to help more?
Hello,
I want to thank you for taking the time to make all of these amazingly informative videos for us. I just received my 50W laser last week and already know more or less how to use it thanks to you. I haven't yet watched every one of your videos, but rest assured, I will!
Have you considered making a video demonstrating how to use "Cermark" for "etching" metal?
+CenterFireJewelry
Hi
Congratulations on getting your new machine. One immediate word of warning. DON'T run it at more than 60% until you have seen my next video in a few days time. . I've made mistakes along the way and am still learning myself. I like to fully understand the equipment I'm using hence I push the boundaries but in doing so I have managed to wreck what should have been at least a 1000 hour laser tube, in about 30 hours. I hope others learn from my mistake. The next video is all about this issue.
With our 50 watt laser we cannot properly etch metal of any sort. It requires way more power. The Cermark etching you speak of is not really etching., it is an expensive chemical cocktail that reacts with the metal surface almost baking on to leave a nice clean durable mark where the focused beam hits. I have no immediate plans to experiment with this
Thanks for you kind comments. It's good to know that others have benefited from the path I have beaten.
+SarbarMultimedia Fortunately I did see that in one of your videos you demonstrated how power drops off past around 60%. Hopefully in running it at a max of 60% power I wont run into any problems down the road. And as far as the Cermark is concerned, I certainly don't blame you. It's a little too expensive to just experiment with.
I liked your acrylic removable peg board invention. Did you drill the holes or did you laser cut them? I would think that you drilled them for accuracy.
-Seth
+CenterFireJewelry
Hi Seth
I already had the 8mm acrylic blanks that conveniently were a nice size for my purpose. I used acrylic because it gives you an idea of when you are using excessive power to cut through material, you burn deep unfocused tracks in the baseplate, whereas when the power is just sufficient, the marks are superficial. I did a drawing of the blank and of the hole centres on my CAD system and then did a full scale printout. I stuck the print onto one of the blanks and clamped the other 3 beneath to drill them all together. I do plan to make a further improvement by letting into the top surface of each plate a couple of small neodymium magnets to hold the plates reasonable firmly onto my steel baseplate. I'll do a video shortly about all the changes I have made to my machine. I hate to describe them as improvements, they just deal with inconveniences that annoy me.
Russ
+SarbarMultimedia Thanks Russ, I will definitely be doing the same. I just watched your new video! Very informative as usual! Thank you for taking the time to make it. Have you thought about upgrading to an 80W tube in the future?
+CenterFireJewelry
Hi Seth
That's another $600 plus an extension box (which I would make) because the tube is about another 300mm longer. It would also hit my workshop door. So no I cant imagine an upgrade. This laser is a retirement toy for me and it's also an excuse to ignore my wife's long 'to do' list. Having had a couple of modern 3KW metal cutting lasers, I find this step back to basics and low power an interesting technical challenge especially when the kit comes with a manual that is useless. I have to admit to being quite hooked on the paper cutting,and also engraving on slate,wood and glass,all of which don't require high power. I hope my videos are not giving the wrong impression. The machine is basically fantastic value for money even if it eventually turns out to be a 40watt machine. There are a few tweaks necessary to personalize it to my requirements, but that part of the pleasure for me. Videography is my hobby so it's wii win all the way.
Thank you, sincerely.
What I have read on the Internet (must be true!) is that the tubes are sealed, there is a catalyst inside that can be used to make co2. When you run at higher powers, the catalyst can't convert or replenish the co2 quick enough so the power drops off. What I haven't found is, is this true! And does it use the catalyst up at a higher power level and wears out the tube or just you can't create enough co2 for a good beam.
+Ed Bond
Hi Ed
If you watch the power loss test videos you will see exactly that effect. I could run at full power for maybe 30 seconds and then the power would drop off considerably. Turn the tube off for 2 minutes and you could start again at full power (for 30 seconds). While I was waiting for my new tube I did run for a whole day continuously on 15% power (Xmas card session) with no problems.
Perhaps that confirms all your research.
Now watched that one!